Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast.
I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist
and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart
Beauty Creative. I'm so excited to be talking
to today's guest, Dr. Olivia Anne, co -founder
of Floos. The period care industry has been stagnant
for decades with two main brands dominating the
market. I think we all know who they are. It's
only now that creative entrepreneurs like Dr.
Olivia are starting to really shake things up
for the better. Together with her partner, Aaron
Koshy, she created the world's first flushable
micro plastic -free period pad, which is no mean
feat when you think about the technical challenges
involved. The materials obviously need to hold
during use, but break down completely when flushed,
which some might say... is impossible and that's
what the two were frequently told by manufacturers.
So in response they decided to build their own
technology and have since raised 17 million to
develop it further and Fluse is also now stocked
in boots and Tescos. Olivia shares how she went
from working in the NHS to running a femtech
startup and what it really takes to challenge
an industry that hasn't innovated in decades.
Let's get into it. So Olivia, thank you so much
for joining me today. What made you think that
this was a concept worth pursuing, first of all?
Oh, well, thank you so much, first of all, for
having me on the podcast today. You're welcome.
I'm absolutely thrilled to be here. And one of
the things that you talked about, it's a simple
concept, but I absolutely do not claim that I'm
the first one to have thought of it. When I absolutely
started the journey, we had lots of messages
coming in being, oh, I also wanted it to be flushable.
But I think I've always thought about, you know,
what if a pad was flushable? But I think what
really helped us was the technological advancements
that were being made at the same time that we
were looking into it at the time of the market.
I'd say that we were really lucky in our timing
and getting into that. Other people had looked
at it before, but one of the things I was genuinely
led by was hearing stories of other people who
either didn't know that period products shouldn't
be flushed, like tampons, or knew that they shouldn't
flush, but still flushed anyway. And so one of
the things that I learned at the start of my
journey was that one in three women in the UK
had admitted to flushing period products within
the last 12 months, which kind of shocked me.
So I was like, you know, if there's such a wanted
behavior. There isn't a single product in the
market that can fulfill those needs and so I
thought you know, let's let's try and have a
go at it ourselves And what was the story leading
up to the launch? Just sort of touching on your
own personal background. Was this something that
you'd wanted to do for a long time or Yes, how
did it all come about? Well, I stumbled into
it quite as a personal experience, firstly as
a consumer, because I was looking for better
products for myself in the market. I had recently
been diagnosed with endometriosis, and so I was
looking for products that were better for myself,
but also I had just moved into my sort of housemates
at university and stuff. So I really wanted to
better understand how to lessen my impact on
the planet. But whilst doing so, I sort of got
disenfranchised with what the options in front
of me. And I was very lucky to be living with
my housemate at the time, Aaron, who is now my
co founder, and also partner today. And within
that, we were looking at really the burden of
sustainable guilt that I really feel has been
unfairly thrust upon us as consumers, we like
stand in front of the shelf, or in front of the
bin, trying our best, but within a system that
is almost feels like it's designed for us to
fail. And so I was like, you know, let's do let's
create a company, let's create a product that
really makes the easiest thing for you and rewards
you and the planet at the same time. So yeah,
that was a real thing. That was a personal personal
drive. But in university, I started off doing
medicine. So I ended up working in the NHS for
a couple of years. But then as the product development
and further research into this, I stepped out
of it, went into this full time a couple of years
after the NHS. Oh, I'm very pleased that you
did. It's crazy, really, when you think when
i was a teenager there were two brands that always
in tampax that our mothers had and it's It just
baffles me that the period care market is only
now starting to diversify and independent brands
are coming to the fore. Do you think that's mainly
because we're just starting to talk about it
a lot more now? Absolutely. I think having that
conversation on space to be able to have those
discussions to, we're still, I would say, still
got a little bit further to go and sort of supporting
women in the workplace and those who menstruate
to be able to have the conversations freely about
this. And I think having those transparency discussions
about what goes into the product. how these products
are made and the impact they truly have on not
just the planet, but our bodies. We're only just
about understanding the impact between microplastics
and chronic inflammatory conditions and things
that can be triggered and further worsened by
that. And especially with such intimate products
that stay against our skin, not continually,
but as a batch of them across five to seven days,
this is something that absolutely we need further
clarity on. And I think, like you say, with these
huge behemoths and big strategic incumbents.
in the market. I'm really pleased to see this
new wave of like transparent companies coming
in questioning the industry status quo, and we
hope to be part of that. Yeah, journey. I read
a crazy statistic. I don't know if you've come
across it saying that there are more tests done
on hamster food than there are on traditionally
on period products. Not the red. That doesn't
surprise me. I can't verify. I'll try and verify
that. No, but that does not surprise me. One
of the things that I'm absolutely passionate
about is getting the data out there. One of the
things that currently we're supporting is endometriosis
and adenomyosis and getting the support that
they have within the workplace so that they could
get three paid sick leaves per month as they
support, so that they don't have to choose between
pain and pay. And one of the things that we know
is that one in 10 people in the UK have diabetes
and the amount that goes into research for that,
one in 10 women have endometriosis, but has nowhere
near the amount of money that goes into the research
for conditions and symptoms and cures and things
like that. And so that's one of the things that
we really hope to be able to do is start. shedding
light on areas that is lacking data, so that
we can get better and safer research and safer
products out there. Because there's obviously
the sustainability angle of them being flushable,
but it's also super convenient, like I myself,
I say I've been a long time customer and having
a toddler and just chaotic home life, it's just
so much easier to just be able to flush something
down the loo. I mean, what was the main kind
of focus? Or were they both equally important
to you? Well, no, no, no, for us, it was never,
we never wanted to have the changing consumer
behaviour that didn't feel easier. We wanted
something that felt instinctual and it was genuinely
a moment where I had run out of pads, I didn't
realise that I was still on my period and so
I just used some toilet paper to be able to just
guide me over for the next time until I was able
to get my hands on pads. And then as I was flushing
that away I was like, you know what, what is
the actual difference in the composition of these
products? Like surely these are just plant fibres,
what are the ways that we can do this so that
we can make it flushable and easier? Because
we want to. you know, naturally and instinctually
flush it away, so much so that one in three women
in the UK have done. So that was really the point
of we never wanted to sacrifice that convenience.
And that's why it was important for us that every
part was flushable, not just the pad. The thing
that took us another two, three years to develop
were actually the flushable peel papers on the
back, how to make sure that they were fully safe,
fully flushable and fully sustainable. And then
also the pouch itself, so that everything that
you felt was just convenient, wasn't just the
pad. But yeah, that for us was therefore creating
something that was first of all safer and then
simpler and then also undermined by sustainable.
now what was the i mean we can go and we can
go on a whistle stop tour of this but in terms
of developing the product and getting it manufactured
i mean i'm sure you were met with a lot of pushback
in the beginning where people are saying this
can't be done and you mentioned a few of the
the issues with all the different components
and making sure that those were all flushable
too and what was that whole journey like and
was there ever a point where you were thinking
okay maybe we uh should change tack and uh develop
something else No, you're right. I mean, when
I look back at the development process of it,
it's been littered with... both hurdles, but
we've been very, very fortunate that at each
point where we found points of difficulty where
the industry was saying it's impossible, we managed
to find a partner who shared the vision and was
like, no, no, no, let's find a way. So first
of all, with our raw materials, we had to source
everything that was water -dispersible, but also
microplastic -free and fully biodegradable. So
all three of these things had to be a necessity.
Is that the main criteria for something to be
called flushable? Yes, exactly. Exactly. And
we also wanted to source it so that it was global.
So we wanted to ensure that our supply chain
was defensible, not just, let's say, in the UK,
but also in Asia and also in America and Europe.
And so having and building those was the first
step. And then converters, how do we convert
that in a way that's sustainable, in a way that
doesn't use microplastics, that doesn't use a
high amount of energy? And that was, again, finding
partners along there. But I think one of our
most important challenges was the scaling up
of the manufacturing process. So before we used
to build these pads out of hand, we were doing
our early product testing. So each pad took about
15 minutes by hand to these handcrafted products.
But now we've been able to build a machine that
creates these around 600 pads per minute. And
in order to do that, there were three main things
that the industry told us was impossible. So
number one was that all products are built with
this hot melt acrylic glue. So even if all of
the products around it and the materials are
biodegradable, because they're bonded together
with this melted glue it means that not only
does it release micro plastic but it fails to
make it further biodegradable. The second part
was also the core and the within there you have
this super absorbent polymer which is typically
made from petrochemicals and polyethylene and
plastics so we replace that with a cellulose
base a completely plant -based way that almost
acts like starch so you can add a bit of water
in it thickens and forms a gel but as soon as
you over flood it with water it completely loosens
and of course is biodegradable and And finally,
of course, is the plastic backing sheet. We've
replaced that with something that's completely
water soluble, micro plastic free, and allows
it to be biodegraded away within 30 days. And
so as part of that, that machinery, we partnered
with an Italian machine firm, and we've built
that machine. It took us about three and a half
years to build. Oh my gosh. But we're really,
really proud of that. And that, I think, was
our biggest hurdle to get to this point so far.
and then also there's the performance issue as
well because in a competitive market you know
you have to make sure they're leak proof and
I remember these sort of fancy pads we got like
about 20 or so years ago they had these tiny
little gel beads in them I don't know if you
remember those but goodness knows what they were
doing to like the waterways of the planet but
yeah how did you um manage to make it so that
they were still um you know high performance
and you know would prevent leakage and other
and other issues relating to that. Yeah, you've
hit the real sort of crux of the question on
the head there. It only took us a few months
to make a pad that was flushable. It took us
another five years to make something that was
really absorbent, high endurance and flushable.
And part of that, I would say it's not a single
answer, but I would say like an onion of answers.
At the core of it, we've got a patented technology
that allows the core to be super absorbent, in
a way, sort of like a one way street. So it absorbs
blood and fluid from the top down and traps it
in a sort of gel like core. But as soon as the
entire core is flooded with water, with a high
volume of water. It dissipates, breaks apart
and dissolves and moves away to be biodegraded.
So that's the first sort of bit. Second part
of it is also the materials that we use within
it. We've worked a lot with our converters and
raw material suppliers to ensure that they are
the right formulations and created in a way that
they are no longer, each part is no longer than
the length of a human eyelash, so three millimeters.
So as soon as they are met with the force of
a flush, they are able to dissipate away, but
each fibre is highly, highly absorbent. And because
we've been able to replace all of that existing
conventional plastic with these cellulose and
polymers, that has allowed it to be naturally
much more absorbent than the existing products.
And so with that, we've been able to do continuous
testing. So along the journey, we've had about
65 ,000 people along the journey who's trusted
us with their period care and really helped us
develop and given us feedback. Hopefully you
would have seen along the journey, all the feedback
and product trials that we always ask people
to do and each time we have a minimum of let's
say 150 participants to ensure that we've got
a good sort of trial basis there. it's such a
tricky balance. That's why I'm just so like in
admiration of what you've achieved. Because yeah,
you think about it has to sort of hold the liquid,
but then also be, you know, be able to disintegrate.
So I think the fact that you managed to achieve
that is incredible, to be honest. And in terms
of costing as well, because people aren't going
to spend a lot of money on a, you know, a premium
period care product necessarily, are they? And
given that, you know, you're a sustainable brand,
there's, you know, less product runs, it's a
lot more expensive to manufacture. So how did
you manage to make make all of that side of things
work? Oh well thank you so much, yeah that has
been really a challenge for us because we first
of all have the increased barrier that the materials
themselves are much more expensive than the existing
petrochemicals or even I would say cotton or
existing sort of materials like that because
they're much more used within the industry and
also currently our sort of volumes of scale are
not competing with the existing sort of larger
companies within the space and so we're still
building our way within this journey. The second
part is also we are still in the process of continuing
that value engineering of our products. And so
right now we're striving for the best for our
products. And so each process hasn't been optimized
for cost. And so as we've been doing that, one
of the things that we are doing is we hope to
be able to, right now we're really pleased that
we've been able to bring these boxes. So 399
for a pack of medium pads and 349 for a pack
of liners. And we hope that as we continue this
journey, we'll be able to make them. more and
more affordable for the mass market, but that's
always been a priority for us that they're not
so unaffordable because we really, really want
to ensure that they are accessible to as many
people as we can make them be. And it's a pretty
tough market when you've got the big dogs, like
we're saying, like Always and Tampax. I mean,
how did you feel sort of competing with them
and sort of going into that market as a smaller
player? Well, if I'm honest, I... I was aware
and I thought I had a strategy to go in in terms
of like, you know, create a good product. But
in hindsight, I think I was a little naive in
terms of, you know, like, we'll start with this
product. But I've been very, very fortunate that
I've had a significant amount of funding. So
we've had about 17 million pounds worth of funding
so far to go into the R &D and the tech side
of the product. Thank you. And so as part of
that, for us, the strategy has very much been
build a sort of tech branded company. So the
way that I've built Planera behind Floos is a
material technology company that builds these
platform material technologies. So FlushTech,
we've applied it first into Floos, our own consumer
brand within Femcare, but FlushTech itself could
also be applied the flushable technology into
adult incontinence, into baby products, into
household hygiene. And for us, that's an opportunity
for us to really showcase what FlushTech can
do to one of the markets, but then also look
to license FlushTech into existing ones. So let's
say Pampers wants to become flushable. You could
maybe in the future see a Pampers powered by
FlushTech and you'll know exactly what that'll
do because it's a brand that you are aware and
really like and use, but then would also have
the power to be flushable as well. That's brilliant.
So you guys are basically, you're the manufacturers
themselves. So instead of, you know, you're basically
taking over that part of the process. Yes. It
wasn't the original plan, if I'm honest, but
it's because necessity forced us down that road.
And I would say that kind of COVID was the catalyst
for it, as is many, many things for startups
that have sort of lived through that era. But
we had planned to work with a contract manufacturer
to sort of try to get a flushable product to
market. But then everything within the absorbent
hygiene industry sort of shut down and of course
diverted to personal protection equipment and
masks. And so for us, we sort of were like, either
do we sit on our hands and wait this out and
see what happens in two years time, or we sort
of thought, let's try and do this ourselves.
What are the ways that we can do to build this
machine and get this out there and sort of prove
the concept? And so that was a decision that
we made when we heard the Boris Johnson speech
that evening. Yeah. And so did either of you,
did you have that kind of technical background
at the time, or was it something that you had
to then go back? back to school for, as it were.
Yeah, well, my co -founder Aaron is an engineer.
So he is a design engineer and a biochemical
engineer from Imperial. So he used his engineering
skills. So both of us, however, I would say we
sort of learnt on the go. We were very fortunate
to have partners who taught us and we sort of
learnt things through experience. But I would
say we're very proud to be the inventors on the
patterns that we've got today. what's been the
feedback when you've had to pitch to retail buyers?
Have they been very receptive? Yes, so our strategy
with the retailers was we really wanted to find
partners who were aligned in their mission on
sustainability, but also really aligned in finding
that. education and sort of brand education aspect
because we know that as a flushable product you
can't just stick us on a shelf and expect people
to sort of immediately trust and understand like
what what that product is and what it can do
for you and so that's why we wanted to launch
first with with boots and they've been an incredible
partner because congratulations by the way I'm
getting in there amazing thank you they have
such space across their boots app their advantage
card their emails across that all of these sort
of digital touch points that allow us for that
education and sort of the introduction of Floos
into the sort of consumer's hands. And secondly,
with Tesco, we were really wanted, we were really
proud of launching with them because for us,
the number one grocer in the UK, they provide
that convenience to people when they're doing
that weekly grocery shop. And we want to be able
to be in places that our people are already shopping.
And whilst we've had our website open, really,
I would say that was... finding that product
market fit for that product ready for that retail
consumer because we know that over 90 % of women
still shop in in stores for their period products.
Yeah, and how is how is it very clear from being
completely D to C to suddenly being in retailers
like what are the main differences and challenges
that you've encountered with that? So on our
website, we have access to all the data that
we want immediately. For retail, you uh, it was
news to me, but you have to buy the data in order
to be able to understand how your brand is doing.
So that is, um, I didn't know that either until
I started this process, but, um, there's a significant
cost to sort of engaging with retailers. And
whilst of course, like every thing, every part
of that data is important and relevant for us
to sort of learn and do that, that sort of, um,
immediacy of not having that. you know, intricate
wealth of data is something new. It's in the
interest of the retailer, surely, because it
obviously helps you sell your product better
in their stores. I agree. And so that is, I would
say, it feels like a lot slower of a turnaround,
like for us, like if we launch something today
we'll be able to figure out by this afternoon
like how people are doing and what they're looking
at and so with that we've got a few weeks delay
in terms of understanding how everything is going
but from the first few months of being in Boots
we've already had a discussion with them about
launching new products and we're only five weeks
into Tesco so fingers crossed that you know that's
also something that we'll continue to do in the
future. So I think some people, some founders
tend to have a bit of naivety thinking, right,
I've got into that retailer, now that's it, that's
I've achieved, you know, that's the end of the
rainbow. And it's actually, as I'm sure you've
got a foot in the door and whilst You have to
work hard to stay there, right? Yes. But we've
also only got two products on their shelf. Like
we want to have, you know, build up to a full
shelf. We want to be able to also not just stay
in the Femcare aisle, but talk about, you know,
what are the other ways that FlushTech can support
the retailers. And one of the main things that
they responded really well to was the fact that
this is a zero landfill product. You know, this
is something that will not go into the bins and
it's something that can be completely biodegraded
within 30 days to water, biogas and fertilizer.
And the other part was zero microplastic. So
these two completely new claims to their fan
cash off or something that was like, okay, this
is something that also helps them achieve their
goals of, you know, getting zero carbon by 2050.
And imagine when it comes to language and the
tone of voice you use, did you sort of say, okay,
we're going to be completely direct and upfront
and we're not going to use terminology like,
you know, sanitary products or things like that
where we're sanitizing the actual issue, but
we don't want to be to the other way where people
are just like, oh, going to scroll past that.
No, I'm so glad that you brought up the word
sanitary pad because that is one of our banned
words. Yeah, I hate that word. Yeah, so that's
why we always say the menstrual products or period
gags. It's like, let's just talk about what it
actually is. It's a great question about turn
a voice. So as a brand, we have a lot of education
to do. And also we've got to be credible in terms
of being a flushable technology that is sort
of bringing this to market. And so we sort of
weighed that up versus the disruptive nature
in terms of how we want it to be. And so for
us, I think we've landed more in being that bold,
direct, we're never gonna sort of take. you know,
five sentences to get to something that we could
do in one and we'll also be up front in the scientific
terminology that we do always with references
so that we can have that credibility and hopefully
through facts and through those bold claims comes
a disruption that we have there. Although we
have strayed into that territory our first ever
out of home campaign where we called the mother
flusher campaign where we had strategically the
word flush over a certain word across our campaign.
So that was a brilliant way to, I think, sort
of hopefully grab people's attention and sort
of show the way that we could sort of be disruptive.
And as a founder, as female founder, do you feel
a pressure to be a brand ambassador? Yeah, well,
I absolutely started off, I would call myself
and our own technical founders. So we were very
much product development and as the brand launched
and as we grew a community, it needed a face
and it felt like it was a sort of natural sort
of decision for me to sort of help become and
support that requirement. It is... It's a tricky
balance and something that I'm still learning
to do because I'm still working in the business,
still working on things that require deadlines
and submissions, but also starting to do things
like. coming onto this wonderful podcast and
speaking to other founders and having speaking
engagements and things like that to help promote
the brand and the messaging that we have. That's
a question that I'll hopefully address in the
upcoming years as I learn to balance that role,
but I really love working in the business and
so I want to become a brand ambassador that is
true to who I am as well within the business
and not lose that site that is really passion
driving for me. But I guess it's about sort of
leaning into what makes you unique and trying
to be a certain way that people are on social
media. It can be tricky at times, I imagine.
Absolutely, because I'm passionate about speaking
about sustainability and period care, which honestly
does not make me the most fun dinner guest, but
it does mean that I get to come onto places like
this and talk about these topics. And that's
brilliant because it's something that I really
am passionate about. But I also really love,
you know, getting my hands dirty and getting
the manufacturing up and going. What's been the
biggest learning curve for you throughout this
whole journey that you've been on? Oh, I think
biggest learning curve for me was balancing the
emotional rollercoaster that we sort of go on
along this business building journey. There's
been some brilliant highs, but also some many,
many low lows and balancing those emotional sort
of ups and downs. I've been very fortunate to
have a co -founder who's also my partner. And
so having someone who's been there in the trenches
with me to share that with and also leave on
my team to go through those hard times is something
that I'm very fortunate to have and something
that I encourage everyone to sort of build those
connections and support system as they go through.
Because yeah, that is something that I'm still
learning to do better every day. Definitely.
I think we've already talked about founders and
their mental health, but it is so fragile because
you're fighting so many fires all the time. And
I think having to stay resilient and grounded,
it can be a real challenge. And I think that's
something. Yes, because also it's my first time
along this time really like managing and caring
for a team. And I feel responsible for ensuring
that, you know, are they you know not burning
out making sure that they're all you know motivated
driven you know see the same goals that we're
going on and sort of on the same track together
and that that's all sort of stuff that I've been
learning as we've been doing together which is
part of the best part of the job. And what's
your ultimate dream for the brand say in like
five or ten years time where would you ideally
like to take it or anything else you'd like to
develop along the way? Yeah, five years time
I would love for the industry to have sort of
asked itself why aren't you know, all disposable
period pads flushable if they can be just as
performing. And not only is Fluse hopefully in
more retailers, but also you'll start to see
FlushTech in other brands. So I'd love to start
licensing that into other brands. And we don't
want to be sort of, you know, jealous over our
technology. We want to share it and get it into
as much of the market as possible. So yeah, I
hope that's the start of our journey. And we'll
hopefully also be in different markets outside
the UK as well. Thank you so much, Olivia, for
chatting with me. Really appreciate it. And honestly,
I really admire what you have both achieved and
the product itself. As I say, I've been a long
time user, so huge fan anyway. So it's a real
pleasure to chat with you. Thank you. Oh, thank
you so much for having me on the podcast and
really brilliant time. It has brilliant questions
and a really amazing conversation with you. Thank
you. I hope you enjoyed that episode. All links
will be in the show notes and feel free to visit
smartbeautycreative .com or visit us over on
Instagram to find out more about what we do.
And if you enjoyed listening, please don't forget
to rate and review Smart Beauty on iTunes as
it helps people find us. See you next time!