WEBVTT 00:00:12.500 --> 00:00:15.339 Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast. 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:18.699 I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist 00:00:18.699 --> 00:00:21.640 and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:26.280 Beauty Creative. Hello everyone. Now today's 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:29.109 episode is something a bit special. as it's our 00:00:29.109 --> 00:00:31.910 first ever live recording which I'm super excited 00:00:31.910 --> 00:00:35.289 to share with you. So back in October I hosted 00:00:35.289 --> 00:00:37.969 a live panel discussion for British Beauty Week 00:00:37.969 --> 00:00:40.630 in partnership with the British Beauty Council 00:00:40.630 --> 00:00:43.689 and we hosted it at the gorgeous boutique Tallulah 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:46.909 lingerie in Islington North London which if you 00:00:46.909 --> 00:00:48.810 haven't yet visited is a little slice of heaven 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:52.570 and the topic was the beauty archetypes of the 00:00:52.570 --> 00:00:54.890 princess and the witch. and what they reveal 00:00:54.890 --> 00:00:58.289 about how society views women, aging, and self 00:00:58.289 --> 00:01:00.609 -expression. I was joined by four incredible 00:01:00.609 --> 00:01:02.869 women who will all introduce themselves shortly. 00:01:03.549 --> 00:01:06.109 We had a packed room, plenty of Prosecco, and 00:01:06.109 --> 00:01:08.310 a really honest conversation about everything 00:01:08.310 --> 00:01:11.969 from the witch trials to anti -aging, glamour 00:01:11.969 --> 00:01:14.890 magic to why wearing red lipstick to walk the 00:01:14.890 --> 00:01:18.269 dog is an act of rebellion. A quick note, this 00:01:18.269 --> 00:01:21.400 was recorded live. So you'll hear some background 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:24.680 noise. The shop was on a main road so there are 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:28.120 sometimes a few cars outside and the occasional 00:01:28.810 --> 00:01:31.150 drunk people wandering by and staring in through 00:01:31.150 --> 00:01:34.290 the window like, oh what's going on here? And 00:01:34.290 --> 00:01:37.349 the sound quality does vary a bit but I think 00:01:37.349 --> 00:01:39.890 the conversation is well worth it. Huge thanks 00:01:39.890 --> 00:01:43.109 to Nicola at Tallulah Lingerie and our other 00:01:43.109 --> 00:01:46.549 sponsors including Yardley London, Coal Creatives, 00:01:46.790 --> 00:01:49.730 Doctor Organic and Fluss Period Care. So without 00:01:49.730 --> 00:01:51.950 further ado, really hope you enjoy this chat 00:01:51.950 --> 00:01:54.989 about princesses, witches and everything in between. 00:01:55.579 --> 00:01:58.540 So welcome everyone. Thank you for driving the 00:01:58.540 --> 00:02:01.340 weather tonight to be with us. I'm Byla Levy. 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.239 I'm the founder of Smart Beauty Creative and 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.519 delighted to welcome you all at the gorgeous 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:09.840 Tallulah lingerie boutique. Some of you might 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:13.780 be familiar with it. Not your average British 00:02:13.780 --> 00:02:16.939 Beauty Week event. We've got a panel talk and 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:20.340 it's a live recording of the podcast on the beauty 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:23.500 archetypes of the princess and the witch. So 00:02:23.500 --> 00:02:26.009 like many of you... I've worked in the industry 00:02:26.009 --> 00:02:29.469 for far too long. And it often gets, like the 00:02:29.469 --> 00:02:32.050 beauty industry often gets a bad rap for being 00:02:32.050 --> 00:02:39.030 a bit fickle or toxic. Or that we're kind of 00:02:39.030 --> 00:02:41.090 submitting to the patriarchy and yeah, we're 00:02:41.090 --> 00:02:43.150 all rolling our eyes. I'm sure we can agree that 00:02:43.150 --> 00:02:45.509 there's far more to it than that. But it does 00:02:45.509 --> 00:02:48.169 have its issues with like unrealistic beauty 00:02:48.169 --> 00:02:50.909 ideals and age prejudice and things like that. 00:02:51.430 --> 00:02:55.639 And I'm obsessed with fairy tales. So what they 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:59.340 say about our society and the role that beauty 00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:02.139 plays within that. So things like Snow White, 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:03.960 Beauty and the Beast, Sook and Beauty, Spring 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:07.300 to Mind. So that got me thinking about the common 00:03:07.300 --> 00:03:10.639 archetypes of the princess and the witch, which 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:13.379 I'm going to be discussing with my esteemed panelists. 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:15.900 So if you guys would like to quickly introduce 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:18.439 yourselves, or we do a much better job than I 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:20.900 can, Pia, would you like to start us off? Sure. 00:03:21.469 --> 00:03:28.370 I'm Pia Long. I'm a 53 year old witch. In other 00:03:28.370 --> 00:03:31.330 words, I'm a perfumer. I was born in Finland. 00:03:31.930 --> 00:03:34.849 I moved to UK in 1992, went to London College 00:03:34.849 --> 00:03:37.449 of Fashion. I've worked in fragrance since I 00:03:37.449 --> 00:03:39.849 was 13 and I worked my way up from the shop floor 00:03:39.849 --> 00:03:42.449 selling fragrance to becoming a training manager 00:03:42.449 --> 00:03:45.610 to then becoming a product developer in marketing 00:03:45.610 --> 00:03:48.490 and then eventually went into formulation and 00:03:48.490 --> 00:03:52.319 became a perfumer. I've been a perfumer now for 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:54.740 nearly 17 years, and I've had my own business 00:03:54.740 --> 00:03:57.500 for nine years, where we develop fragrances mostly 00:03:57.500 --> 00:04:00.539 for other people, so contract manufacturers and 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:04.400 brands. And yeah, I've also just written a book. 00:04:13.610 --> 00:04:15.449 I'm going to also claim my age. I think it's 00:04:15.449 --> 00:04:19.569 really important that we do so. I'm 35. I have 00:04:19.569 --> 00:04:26.790 been a practicing witch since I was 15. I started 00:04:26.790 --> 00:04:29.029 my industry working in fashion and beauty. I've 00:04:29.029 --> 00:04:33.209 worked in PR, journalism, archives, museums. 00:04:34.009 --> 00:04:36.670 I have always had a deep fascination with words 00:04:36.670 --> 00:04:39.689 and what it means to be human. I spent the last 00:04:39.689 --> 00:04:43.370 eight years in the wellness space, so my book 00:04:43.370 --> 00:04:46.790 called Take It In came out in 2022. I've been 00:04:46.790 --> 00:04:48.990 speaking and doing lots of one -to -one sessions 00:04:48.990 --> 00:04:52.250 with people across the world. And then this year, 00:04:53.089 --> 00:04:55.810 I guess as part of, you know, the endless cycle 00:04:55.810 --> 00:04:57.730 of being a witch, there are lots of deaths and 00:04:57.730 --> 00:05:00.389 rebirths. So my rebirth this year was launching 00:05:00.389 --> 00:05:04.069 my own consultancy called the CD Lab. And the 00:05:04.069 --> 00:05:06.670 lab is all about working with brands and public 00:05:06.670 --> 00:05:10.009 sector and creatives, just trying to add back 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:12.810 more depth, more meaning, more humanness, more 00:05:12.810 --> 00:05:15.449 thought to cultivate richer connections with 00:05:15.449 --> 00:05:18.029 each other. And I feel that's what the lab is 00:05:18.029 --> 00:05:26.259 deeply, deeply missing. Maria. I'm Maria Satiriu. 00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:30.360 I'm the founder of Silk London, a hairstylist 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:35.420 of over 37 years. I worked my way up from a very 00:05:35.420 --> 00:05:41.560 young age, 16, I think. And during that time 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:46.639 I built up a really large clientele. And then 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.600 through a need of my own, I created a product 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:56.189 which my clients wanted. and then it just snowballed 00:05:56.189 --> 00:05:59.089 from there. People just wanted the product. There 00:05:59.089 --> 00:06:02.790 was nothing like it at the time. People in my 00:06:02.790 --> 00:06:07.569 industry were not interested in my product. I 00:06:07.569 --> 00:06:10.069 mixed heritage, so it was something I really 00:06:10.069 --> 00:06:14.149 needed to develop for myself and for all women. 00:06:16.750 --> 00:06:19.730 Then my daughter came on board and we rebranded 00:06:19.730 --> 00:06:23.129 and created Silk London. That was nine years 00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:26.910 ago and since then we've just developed other 00:06:26.910 --> 00:06:32.629 products and created a really unique brand. It's 00:06:32.629 --> 00:06:38.310 like a family. Because of my history in hairdressing, 00:06:39.050 --> 00:06:43.149 I know what it means to the emotion of your hair 00:06:43.149 --> 00:06:47.350 and what it means to every woman. So that's how 00:06:47.350 --> 00:06:54.819 I built my brand on emotion. And that's it. And 00:06:54.819 --> 00:06:57.379 she just recently became a grandma as well, so 00:06:57.379 --> 00:07:06.199 yeah. I'm Lauren, I'm Winston and I'm a glamour 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:15.259 witch. And I work as a women's personal stylist. 00:07:15.550 --> 00:07:20.410 coach within helping them to connect to their 00:07:20.410 --> 00:07:23.790 femininity, their power, their magic, their sensuality, 00:07:23.910 --> 00:07:28.810 their sexuality. I use glamour magic techniques 00:07:28.810 --> 00:07:34.509 and help them to connect to presence and mindfulness 00:07:34.509 --> 00:07:40.949 by introducing rituals and sometimes I include 00:07:40.949 --> 00:07:43.370 dance movements as well because I train as a 00:07:43.370 --> 00:07:47.720 dancer by trade. You're a ballerina, right? I 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:51.300 was, yes, and then I became a burlesque performer 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:54.079 as well, very much for burlesque because it's 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.579 so empowering for women. I'm also writing a book 00:07:56.579 --> 00:08:01.660 as well, so it's wildly exciting to be here with 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:05.240 other women who are championing, I think, just 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.699 going out your own way on your own path, you 00:08:08.699 --> 00:08:13.899 know, and not conforming to society's expectations 00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:17.839 and not... just falling into that trap of doing 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.620 and being what you think everyone wants you to 00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:23.459 be. And that's what it's all about really. Witchcraft 00:08:23.459 --> 00:08:27.420 and magic. It's about taking your own path and 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:31.480 going against the grain. And yeah, there's a 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:36.799 lot of elements to glam that I think that people 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:39.120 don't quite understand. They might think that 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.850 initially it's all to do with the surface. Level 00:08:41.850 --> 00:08:44.289 aesthetics, but it really is more than that. 00:08:44.370 --> 00:08:47.090 It's to do with so much more It's to do with 00:08:47.090 --> 00:08:50.429 your connection to your sexuality Your feminine 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:56.190 power your energy. I also do energy Was a fascinating 00:08:56.190 --> 00:08:58.429 history you taught me the history but the meaning 00:08:58.429 --> 00:09:00.230 behind the word glamour is actually I think it's 00:09:00.230 --> 00:09:06.929 an ancient Scottish Witchcraft and the word glamour 00:09:06.929 --> 00:09:09.529 means to literally cast a spell it's from the 00:09:09.529 --> 00:09:13.100 Scottish word grammar grammar, as we know, to 00:09:13.100 --> 00:09:16.440 be spelling, right? So it literally did mean 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:21.139 to cast the spells. And yes, in lieu of that 00:09:21.139 --> 00:09:24.340 word, to cast a glamour was to cast a spell and 00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:28.200 enchant others around you, to shift perception 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:33.700 of who you were, which is great because it can 00:09:33.700 --> 00:09:37.240 work hand -in -hand with both. shifting the perception 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:39.980 of others of you, but also how you perceive yourself, 00:09:39.980 --> 00:09:42.860 which I think is the most important thing. And 00:09:42.860 --> 00:09:46.440 why do you think we're so drawn to the archetypes 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:48.639 of the princess and the witch? Giselle, maybe 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:50.940 you'd like to take that one because you told 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:52.919 me about this book, Caliban and the Witch, which 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.120 I've been really interested in. So yeah, why 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:58.779 do you think that society is still so fixated 00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:01.700 with these two archetypes? I think we are quite 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:04.240 fixated with binaries anyway, and those can be 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:07.220 good or bad, right or wrong. clean or unclean 00:10:07.220 --> 00:10:10.200 and a lot of that stems from both society at 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.740 large, history, also religion, the heaven and 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:17.549 hell complex and I think when we move women into 00:10:17.549 --> 00:10:20.789 two boxes of the princess or the witch, it doesn't, 00:10:20.809 --> 00:10:23.049 and very conveniently so, allow for the complexity 00:10:23.049 --> 00:10:26.389 that lives in between. If you think about any 00:10:26.389 --> 00:10:28.049 big issue we're facing, it always asks, well, 00:10:28.149 --> 00:10:30.350 who benefits from that? And there are so many 00:10:30.350 --> 00:10:32.909 systems that benefit from us believing that women 00:10:32.909 --> 00:10:36.830 have to be one way or the other. And we see that 00:10:36.830 --> 00:10:39.769 in TV shows, in films, in books. You're either 00:10:39.769 --> 00:10:41.590 the virgin or you're the whore. There's no in 00:10:41.590 --> 00:10:44.759 -between. And I remember I was doing some research 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:47.759 once on the dating advice that women get through 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.720 social media and TikTok and also dating books. 00:10:51.259 --> 00:10:53.960 And it was, well, if you want to be chosen, then 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:56.460 you have to be the princess. And you have to 00:10:56.460 --> 00:10:58.360 want to be rescued. And that's the only way you'll 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:01.639 be chosen. Men don't like whores. Men don't like 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.120 witches. And there's so much of that that's just 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:07.779 so pervasive in both loud and small ways. So 00:11:07.779 --> 00:11:09.639 if we're constantly straddling the lines between 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:12.580 the two, We just don't get to be us. We don't 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:14.779 get to be authentic. We don't get to express 00:11:14.779 --> 00:11:18.100 ourselves. And the ultimate way that women have 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:20.779 been suppressed historically is if you fall out 00:11:20.779 --> 00:11:24.279 of line. So a great way to get women to stay 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.179 in line is to demonize or to romanticize one 00:11:28.179 --> 00:11:31.279 or the other. So I think our biggest reclamation 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.559 as women is just to be unapologetically ourselves. 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.399 And if you do fall in with the princess archetype, 00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:38.700 then... that's incredible but as long as it feels 00:11:38.700 --> 00:11:40.840 like it's yours and you can own that. And what 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:42.320 do you think they say about the way that women, 00:11:43.299 --> 00:11:45.840 the way that society views older women? I mean 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:47.799 Pia do you have any thoughts on that? Because 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:50.200 the witch is sort of seen as this kind of crone 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:52.620 but basically I think historically it was women 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:55.740 who had their own independent means and work 00:11:55.740 --> 00:11:57.960 and had that agency and that's what kind of people 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:01.740 were so scared of. historic cases were in various 00:12:01.740 --> 00:12:05.240 communities across the globe if women found the 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:07.360 means with which to set up a collective where 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:10.259 they did their handicraft as a collective lived 00:12:10.259 --> 00:12:13.259 together or if there were women deciding not 00:12:13.259 --> 00:12:17.299 to get married and then share a residence or 00:12:17.299 --> 00:12:20.899 if there were women who worked as let's say authors 00:12:21.340 --> 00:12:23.720 you know, they were immediately somehow cast 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:25.759 aside as suspicious, and obviously depending 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:28.539 on which time of history or which culture we're 00:12:28.539 --> 00:12:30.220 talking about, there could sometimes be deadly 00:12:30.220 --> 00:12:34.879 consequences too. And in modern society, the 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.700 funny thing is that we think that we're so civilised, 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:39.679 we think that we're so advanced, but a lot of 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.059 the sort of internalised biases about even policing 00:12:43.059 --> 00:12:45.419 one another... That's one of the most pervasive 00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:47.720 things that happens and especially with people 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:50.159 being keyboard warriors online when they think 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:53.120 that they're somehow detached from someone's 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.419 real feelings. Some of the comments, women can't 00:12:56.419 --> 00:12:59.840 win. You're either too slutty, too skinny, too 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:04.779 sexy, too young, too childish or you're too fat 00:13:04.779 --> 00:13:09.039 or you're somehow wrong shape or wrong clothes 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:12.259 or... you use too much Bojoks, not enough Bojoks. 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:13.820 Yeah, you're damned if you do, you're damned 00:13:13.820 --> 00:13:15.600 if you don't. Exactly. So you really, really 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.720 can't win. And I think actually, in a way, realising 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.919 that completely empowers you. You sort of set 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:24.419 that aside and go, I can't win, so I'm not going 00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:27.899 to play. Yeah. And there's this wonderful revelation 00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:30.840 when you realise, I can do what I want, because 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:32.620 it doesn't matter what I do, I'll get judged 00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:37.320 anyway. And that sort of thing gets easier when 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.220 you get a bit older as well, because When you 00:13:40.220 --> 00:13:44.480 get older, the sort of the male gaze stops being 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.159 all that interested in you anyway. And then you 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.080 start realising that, well, instead of becoming 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.259 invisible, I could just become more myself. And 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:55.379 you realise that as a young woman, I think most 00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:57.460 of us go through these phases where we're people 00:13:57.460 --> 00:13:59.899 pleasing or we're trying to get chosen. That 00:13:59.899 --> 00:14:01.779 was such a good phrase, actually, get chosen. 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.059 Because it took me until my 30s to realise I 00:14:05.059 --> 00:14:08.779 need to do the choosing. I don't, why am I here 00:14:08.779 --> 00:14:12.299 trying to be pleasing to a particular type of 00:14:12.299 --> 00:14:15.039 man? Wait a minute, where's my choice in that? 00:14:15.340 --> 00:14:18.519 And I think as you age, you sort of find that 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.679 confidence a bit more, but then society rejects 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.480 you for aging wrong. And one of the most powerful 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:28.299 things that you realize, I've had many near -death 00:14:28.299 --> 00:14:31.639 experiences, unfortunately, and once you sort 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.460 of nearly die multiple times, you sort of realize 00:14:34.460 --> 00:14:39.700 aging is such a privilege. I'm so lucky to have 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:42.179 these wrinkles. I'm so lucky to have these fat 00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:44.519 rolls. I'm so lucky to have these chin hairs. 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:48.860 You know, I'm still alive. I very nearly wasn't 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:52.159 many times. So that is something you really should, 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:55.919 you know, I get to meet my aging face. That's 00:14:55.919 --> 00:15:00.039 so powerful. And do you think that as we get 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.179 older, we can sort of relinquish the idea of 00:15:02.179 --> 00:15:04.279 like the sort of princess archetype? Maria, what 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:05.840 do you think? Because this is idea of like princess 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:07.720 treatment. I mean, do you think that there's 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.179 something almost kind of empowering about that 00:15:10.179 --> 00:15:16.000 in itself? Right. So my take, I can only speak 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.039 on what I have experienced. I've worked with 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:23.220 thousands of women during my career and I know 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:26.620 we talk about society and what it does to women. 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:32.340 what I experience is that women can do that to 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:36.320 women and that is the really upsetting thing 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:42.179 for me that we can be who we want to be it's 00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:46.299 just accepting each other for who we are you 00:15:46.299 --> 00:15:51.820 know so the princess and the witch I feel In 00:15:51.820 --> 00:15:56.080 today's society, the positive is that the witches 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:01.279 are now becoming the wrong models, where the 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:08.980 younger princesses now can see themselves being 00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:12.000 witches at an earlier age. Can we be both, do 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:13.580 you think? Do you think we have to choose between 00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:16.120 one or the other? I think you can be both. I 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:18.700 feel like... Some of the biggest role models 00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:22.240 now are witches. They are women who know themselves 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.779 and have got their careers for longer. They're 00:16:26.779 --> 00:16:31.879 not dead at 60. I'm 60 and I'm working with young 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:35.039 women and we have so much more in common than 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:39.559 what women ever used to have. We buy clothes 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:44.059 in the same stores. We go to the same restaurants. 00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:49.480 We can go to the same bars. So there has been 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:53.279 progression and I like to always take it on a 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.960 positive. Because there are things you can pick 00:16:55.960 --> 00:17:00.019 out in a princess that everyone can relate to. 00:17:00.139 --> 00:17:02.980 Who doesn't want to be taken care of? If not 00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:04.799 all the time, some of the time. I definitely 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:08.460 do. I'll put my hand up. And then if you're a 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:12.140 witch, you know, I feel quite proud of myself 00:17:12.140 --> 00:17:15.200 that I can sit and have a full conversation with 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.660 a princess. you know and I can gain so much from 00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:22.200 her you know because I was born in a different 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.380 generation and she's teaching me you know so 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:29.759 we can learn from one another and take out what 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:35.759 we need to you know make us individuals stronger 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:39.680 and better people you know and when you become 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.859 that I think you become more comfortable in yourself 00:17:42.579 --> 00:17:44.400 Definitely. I mean Laura, do you like the idea 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:46.299 of sort of being, I know you're very much about 00:17:46.299 --> 00:17:47.960 embodying that sort of essence of the witch, 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:49.519 but do you like the idea of being a princess 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.339 as well? I imagine when you're a ballerina, that 00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:56.240 idea resonates with you. I think we have to ensure 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.319 that all girls, whatever age range, feel okay 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:05.319 to move towards whichever camp or veer between 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:08.279 the two or go off in a completely different direction 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:13.910 as we change and which we are. of course going 00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:16.390 to do throughout our life. We want different 00:18:16.390 --> 00:18:20.470 things and the important thing to do is just 00:18:20.470 --> 00:18:27.769 to be supportive with the choices of the young 00:18:27.769 --> 00:18:31.170 or the old. You know, an older woman can absolutely 00:18:31.170 --> 00:18:33.990 be a princess as well as a younger witch. Exactly. 00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:36.650 You know, it's not to do with age even though 00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:38.789 of course you mentioned the crone, you know, 00:18:38.789 --> 00:18:43.450 you've got that... quite binaries of triple goddess 00:18:43.450 --> 00:18:48.609 complex of the maid and the mother and the goddess 00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:53.450 but as you said we freely flow between the three 00:18:53.450 --> 00:18:57.289 which is wonderful and yes of course I wanted 00:18:57.289 --> 00:19:00.470 to be a princess when I was younger but I also 00:19:00.470 --> 00:19:03.490 wanted to be a witch as well and you can be both 00:19:03.490 --> 00:19:06.329 and it's absolutely okay to say I want to be 00:19:06.329 --> 00:19:08.650 looked after. Yeah, I think more of us are waking 00:19:08.650 --> 00:19:10.609 up to that. I'm sure you guys have seen the film 00:19:10.609 --> 00:19:14.349 The Princess Bride. And yeah, I've only seen 00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:16.029 it once, but I remember watching it and thinking, 00:19:16.390 --> 00:19:19.490 what's her name, Buttercup? She's very passive 00:19:19.490 --> 00:19:20.750 throughout the film. She doesn't really do much. 00:19:20.789 --> 00:19:22.269 And I remember thinking, oh, she's really not 00:19:22.269 --> 00:19:24.809 feminist. She just gets rescued. But now I'm 00:19:24.809 --> 00:19:26.910 older, and I'm tired. And I look at that, and 00:19:26.910 --> 00:19:28.910 I think, you know, she had the right idea. My 00:19:28.910 --> 00:19:31.029 girl was just chilling that whole film. She was 00:19:31.029 --> 00:19:34.029 just like, you know. There's nothing to be said 00:19:34.029 --> 00:19:37.329 for that, I think. And going back to the idea 00:19:37.329 --> 00:19:40.410 of kind of glamour and that the other words originally 00:19:40.410 --> 00:19:43.430 connected to like magic spells. I mean, can we 00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:45.630 sort of bring it back to beauty? Can we like 00:19:45.630 --> 00:19:48.170 incorporate this into the way we beautify ourselves 00:19:48.170 --> 00:19:52.309 and present ourselves in that way? I think that 00:19:52.309 --> 00:19:54.109 possibly a lot of people think that it might 00:19:54.109 --> 00:19:59.150 involve a lot of tools. magical tools and herbs 00:19:59.150 --> 00:20:01.930 and crystals and candles, which you can do, you 00:20:01.930 --> 00:20:04.670 know, if you want to involve that. And it's lovely 00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:07.750 to invite in all these beautiful crystals and 00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:11.710 candle magic and all of that. But the most important 00:20:11.710 --> 00:20:14.369 thing behind magic is the intention that you 00:20:14.369 --> 00:20:17.710 put behind any action that you are making. So, 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:20.670 you know, if you don't have all of the white 00:20:20.670 --> 00:20:23.849 crystals or the herbs or whatever, it might be... 00:20:23.829 --> 00:20:27.289 The best thing you can do is to apply lipstick 00:20:27.289 --> 00:20:31.609 with the intention of, you know, speaking your 00:20:31.609 --> 00:20:35.190 truth for that day, right? And I think that glamour 00:20:35.190 --> 00:20:38.069 magic really is an affirmation of self -love. 00:20:38.450 --> 00:20:43.009 I think glamour and magic and both combined are 00:20:43.009 --> 00:20:46.869 all to do ultimately with seduction, right? It's 00:20:46.869 --> 00:20:49.829 about manifesting in what you want for yourself. 00:20:50.470 --> 00:20:53.000 I wanted to just really quickly add that... I 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.200 think one of the pervasive ideas is that, oh, 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.500 you don't need all that makeup, you're beautiful 00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:00.599 anyway. And that's the sort of sentence that 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:02.160 you hear. That does my hairdo when people say 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.380 that. I know! It's like, yeah, I know, but I 00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:09.400 want to put it on anyway. Sure, I look like Hilda 00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:12.700 the Milkmaid, but you know, the thing is, my 00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:15.599 response to that is, but I know I don't need 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:20.359 it. I like colouring in. Yeah. You know, for 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:25.140 me... Makeup is play, and makeup is self -expression, 00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:28.940 and makeup is joy, and creativity. And I mean, 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:30.640 for goodness sakes, look at me, I love colour. 00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.880 Why would I not wear lipstick? You know, it makes 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.140 me feel much more alive, much more authentic. 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.119 to play with colours and to play with makeup 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.339 and I'll carry on doing it until I can't see 00:21:42.339 --> 00:21:44.880 anymore. And that ties in Giselle to what we 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:46.480 were talking about with the witch wound and the 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.359 visibility wound. There's a concept in witchcraft 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:53.440 and just going back to the witch trials and how 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.500 many, not only women, people were just persecuted 00:21:56.500 --> 00:22:00.200 for being different and that could be all of 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:02.920 us in here probably have been in the witch trials 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.680 and that could just be from having an open mind 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.210 for... speaking the truth for using herbs, having 00:22:09.210 --> 00:22:12.690 peppermint tea. There's so many things that women 00:22:12.690 --> 00:22:15.890 were persecuted for and I think as a result of 00:22:15.890 --> 00:22:18.849 that we've kind of like almost removed it from 00:22:18.849 --> 00:22:22.049 history. When we speak about the biggest atrocities 00:22:22.049 --> 00:22:24.430 that ever happened people rarely on TV or in 00:22:24.430 --> 00:22:26.289 the media will ever mention the witch trials 00:22:26.289 --> 00:22:29.839 and how many people were killed. And when we 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.220 sit with that number and we sit with the reasons 00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:34.819 why they were persecuted, as women we're living 00:22:34.819 --> 00:22:38.460 in that almost subconscious fear that, well I've 00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:40.339 seen in history what happens to women who are 00:22:40.339 --> 00:22:43.119 outspoken and bold and pick a different path 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:47.880 and love themselves and play around in like the 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:51.019 dark arts which are just loving themselves and 00:22:51.019 --> 00:22:53.279 when you see that in history your body reads 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.819 that as this is not safe then. And we have so 00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:59.579 many remnants from the witch trials up to this 00:22:59.579 --> 00:23:02.700 present day of when we see women who are different, 00:23:02.900 --> 00:23:05.799 loud, outspoken, and it can be as quick as the 00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:09.019 news cycle, anyone from Meghan, Duchess of Sussex 00:23:09.019 --> 00:23:11.839 to Molly May, and there's just like a list of 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.220 women who are just visible and seen and creating 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:18.460 their own lives on their own terms and are disvilified 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:19.859 for that. It's like how dare they, especially 00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:21.400 with Meghan, you're like how dare they, who do 00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:22.819 you think she is? It's like how dare they exist. 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.740 And it's really hard to watch, and as women we 00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.900 internalise that, as young girls we internalise 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:31.359 that, as I'm not allowed to just exist. So we 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.339 stop, we stop taking up space. I was on the train 00:23:34.339 --> 00:23:38.079 yesterday and there was a disabled man who walked 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.859 onto the train and he just said loudly, is somebody 00:23:41.859 --> 00:23:44.079 able to give me a seat? And everyone moved to 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:45.799 give him a seat. And then the next stop, this 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:47.200 woman who was pregnant who got on the train, 00:23:47.259 --> 00:23:50.220 she was very, very pregnant and she didn't say 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.960 anything. so the woman behind her said can someone 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.720 give her a seat and then someone did but just 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.480 even those small interactions were very conditioned 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.920 to not take up that space and to walk into rooms 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.539 very unassuming and very shy and the witch room 00:24:05.539 --> 00:24:07.900 just simply means that we're just living in our 00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:10.200 ancestors footprints and we've got that ancestral 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.259 memory which you know has been proven to go back 00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:15.759 at least seven generations if not more. Well, 00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:17.960 we carry that. We carry those wounds with us. 00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:20.759 So much of the work that we're all speaking about 00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:23.839 tonight is a way to reclaim that and to actively 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:27.319 work on it. But I think it's also a way to have 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:29.359 self -compassion on the days where it feels hard 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.039 to move into self -love or self -trust or taking 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.640 up space or going into a shop. My partner, we 00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.240 were going into an old -fashioned sweet shop 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.180 in the countryside and he just walked in very 00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:44.880 boldly and said to the guy, Can we just try one? 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:46.880 And I was just like, I have to go and try it 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:49.900 some day. I was so mortified. I was like, I'll 00:24:49.900 --> 00:24:52.400 just ask for a free sweet. And he was like, well, 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:53.700 we're going to buy some, so I want to try it 00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:56.019 before we buy it. And I was just like, the actual 00:24:56.019 --> 00:25:00.539 bodacity. And then why wouldn't I do that? And 00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:02.299 it's just like those little reminders of that 00:25:02.299 --> 00:25:05.240 witch room that pop up. And yeah, we deserve 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:08.700 to be here in our boldest, most beautiful expressions. 00:25:08.970 --> 00:25:11.430 And I think beauty is a real sort of a strong 00:25:11.430 --> 00:25:13.470 way of channeling that. I mean, Maria, when you 00:25:13.470 --> 00:25:15.089 were a hairdresser, did you feel that there was 00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:17.490 something really kind of magical and transformative 00:25:17.490 --> 00:25:19.809 when the person eventually got out of the chair 00:25:19.809 --> 00:25:22.509 and just felt like a completely different person? 00:25:22.670 --> 00:25:24.230 Is there kind of, is it like a magical spiritual 00:25:24.230 --> 00:25:28.089 element to that? For both me and my client. Yeah. 00:25:28.410 --> 00:25:30.769 And it made me realise when I was doing less 00:25:30.769 --> 00:25:33.670 and less hairdressing, I was almost in mourning 00:25:33.670 --> 00:25:37.529 because it was like a drug to me being able to 00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:40.730 do that for somebody. you know that's that is 00:25:40.730 --> 00:25:44.990 the magic of what i used to do is the unveiling 00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:49.950 of a swan literally and do you know what it is 00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:53.130 that used to get me is when because i'm very 00:25:53.130 --> 00:25:57.089 passionate about being a hairstylist it's a privilege 00:25:57.089 --> 00:25:58.630 as well because you're like someone's letting 00:25:58.630 --> 00:26:02.569 you sort of mess with their hair and yeah and 00:26:02.859 --> 00:26:06.259 the reward for myself could be, I would say, 00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:08.519 even more than what they felt for themselves. 00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:11.420 So when they would stand, and I don't know if 00:26:11.420 --> 00:26:14.220 you ladies do it, when you go to Hennessy, they've 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:17.759 done a good job. is something I feel very passionate 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.259 about. So that's the side of the beauty industry 00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:21.180 that rarely sort of gets spoken about and people 00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:22.940 talk about, oh, you're sort of submitting to 00:26:22.940 --> 00:26:24.380 a patriarchal standard. I mean, Laura, what do 00:26:24.380 --> 00:26:26.779 you feel about when people say, I'm sure you've 00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:28.759 got a lot of opinions about this, when people, 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:30.839 I know when I tell people I work in beauty, they're 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:32.460 just like, oh yeah, but you can tell, you know, 00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.019 that sort of idea of it's kind of fickle and... 00:26:35.019 --> 00:26:38.180 I mean, there is absolutely nothing frivolous 00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:43.339 or trivial about beauty or fashion or about... 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:48.980 helping yourself to feel and look better. There's 00:26:48.980 --> 00:26:51.019 something witchy and spiritual about that. Yes 00:26:51.019 --> 00:26:56.160 there is and not only do you feel better because 00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.319 you feel that you look better once you have stepped 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:05.660 onto that path of meeting your most glamourized 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:08.079 self and whatever glamour means to you, it means 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:10.279 something very different to us all. But what 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:12.779 I love about it is the fact that it really sort 00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:18.740 of, it seeps into other areas of your life. So 00:27:18.740 --> 00:27:23.779 you become a happier, maybe harder working person. 00:27:24.099 --> 00:27:27.920 You've spent time for yourself. You know yourself. 00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:31.480 You might become closer with partners or husbands 00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:33.980 or wives or whatever with your children because 00:27:33.980 --> 00:27:37.099 you're not completely burnt out. And it also 00:27:37.099 --> 00:27:40.019 spreads like a ripple to the other women that 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:41.960 come into contact with me. Exactly. Because you're 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.180 giving them permission to also do the same. You're 00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:48.779 saying, you know, yes I'm a mother and I'm a 00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:52.059 business owner but I still love to wear something 00:27:52.059 --> 00:27:55.079 that makes me feel beautiful. I still love to 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:57.640 wear red lipstick every day even if it's just 00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:00.480 to take the dogs out for a walk. And you can 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.819 too, because it's not hindering any of that at 00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:05.140 the end of the day, is it? Wearing a fabulous 00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:06.859 red lipstick that you're going to feel better 00:28:06.859 --> 00:28:09.900 wearing is going to brighten up your energy and 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.900 elevate your day. And if you can make these small 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:15.119 changes for yourself, you are giving other women 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:17.019 permission to do the same for themselves, which 00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:20.440 I think is really precious. No, you're uplifting 00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:22.589 others in the same. Exactly that. And Giselle, 00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:24.109 we're seeing this sort of reclamation of sort 00:28:24.109 --> 00:28:26.269 of very kind of witchy aesthetics and sort of 00:28:26.269 --> 00:28:28.329 spiritual wellness in beauty. I mean, do you 00:28:28.329 --> 00:28:30.329 think that's kind of part of like a larger sort 00:28:30.329 --> 00:28:34.230 of shift or do you think it's just more becoming 00:28:34.230 --> 00:28:36.009 commodified? I know we spoke about this when 00:28:36.009 --> 00:28:38.109 we were chatting on the phone. I mean, do you 00:28:38.109 --> 00:28:40.430 think it's people are embracing it genuinely 00:28:40.430 --> 00:28:42.730 or is it just jumping on a bandwagon? I think 00:28:42.730 --> 00:28:45.619 it's really hard when I... I think it was probably 00:28:45.619 --> 00:28:51.079 about 2018. Me and my best friends, so I went 00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:54.099 to New York to pitch like a series of these like 00:28:54.099 --> 00:28:56.539 skin meets spirituality. It was like very ritual 00:28:56.539 --> 00:28:58.799 based and we would say that when you're washing 00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:00.960 your face, for example, you can be decently trying 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:02.839 to let go of. So that was what you're speaking 00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:05.839 into about the stages of your beauty ritual that 00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:08.059 you can then turn into something more intention. 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.779 And we went to so many different brands and wellness 00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:13.420 spaces in New York and we were like, yeah, come 00:29:13.420 --> 00:29:14.799 over, it's going to be great. And then in the 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:18.119 UK it was like, what are you talking about? It 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.759 was this very, no, it's not going to work. And 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:24.079 then I think as the years moved on, I did a project 00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:27.779 with MAC and we had all their fixed plus sprays. 00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.019 I created different intentions for one of their 00:29:30.019 --> 00:29:32.180 mavers. And that was great. And then just like 00:29:32.180 --> 00:29:33.619 more and more brands were asking me to do different 00:29:33.619 --> 00:29:35.660 projects with them or different activations and 00:29:35.660 --> 00:29:40.579 events. what was really beautiful was that they 00:29:40.579 --> 00:29:42.420 gave me the chance to work with them as someone 00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:44.500 who's got such a huge amount of experience doing 00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:47.099 that. And then I think over the years it just 00:29:47.099 --> 00:29:49.279 started to diminish. So lots of me and my friends 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.259 who are witches and meditation teachers and practitioners 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:53.940 were working with brands in that really deep 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:56.599 way. And we just changed very quickly to someone 00:29:56.599 --> 00:29:58.640 on the team was them doing it and just doing 00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:01.279 like a quick chat GPT set. I mean, you can always 00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.019 tell, you can always tell who's, you know, had 00:30:03.019 --> 00:30:05.400 their hands in it and who's worked on the project 00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:07.359 and... I just hope that, you know, there's so 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:09.759 many of us who do this work and it's our medicine, 00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:12.859 it's our work, it's ancestral for a lot of us, 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:16.940 including myself. And I hope that brands going 00:30:16.940 --> 00:30:19.640 forward can just start to use their community 00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:22.359 rather than just make it a marketing trend. But 00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:23.460 I think it's beautiful. I think, you know, I've 00:30:23.460 --> 00:30:25.519 always said for me, my passion in that sector 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.700 was most women don't have time to do like an 00:30:28.700 --> 00:30:30.799 hour long meditation every day, or a lot of women 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:34.619 do not have time, or we've been taught to... 00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.059 be always the caregivers and the nurturers and 00:30:37.059 --> 00:30:39.740 provide for everyone else. So the idea of asking 00:30:39.740 --> 00:30:42.180 them to add in so many more practices is very 00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:45.740 hard and unrealistic. But I said to someone once 00:30:45.740 --> 00:30:47.920 that, well, everyone has time to wash their face. 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:49.960 So if we can speak to her while she's washing 00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:52.460 her face, then maybe she'll get like two minutes 00:30:52.460 --> 00:30:54.900 back. If she's breathing intentionally while 00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:57.160 she's applying a face cream, that's another 30 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:01.509 seconds back. And that's how I saw it. I always 00:31:01.509 --> 00:31:03.910 use perfume, for example, as like the last spritz 00:31:03.910 --> 00:31:06.690 of any spell that I do to like see them my intention. 00:31:06.730 --> 00:31:08.750 I do that every single day. So I think it's about 00:31:08.750 --> 00:31:12.650 having you weave magic into everything that you're 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:16.170 doing because it's alchemy and that's what witchcraft 00:31:16.170 --> 00:31:18.769 is about. And I just wanted to touch on the thing 00:31:18.769 --> 00:31:21.430 you said before about the archetypes and I was 00:31:21.430 --> 00:31:22.950 talking about the triple goddess, like the maiden 00:31:22.950 --> 00:31:24.769 mother crone and the princess and the witch. 00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:27.880 I remember when I was 15, I first held my first 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.380 witch book at Watkins Books in Covent Garden. 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:32.599 I was so excited. I was like, I think this is 00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:36.099 who I am. And when I learned about these different 00:31:36.099 --> 00:31:38.519 archetypes and that women have so many cycles 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:40.720 and phases that you can just be different versions 00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.220 of yourself, there was something so beautiful 00:31:43.220 --> 00:31:46.920 and powerful about that. for the first time I 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:49.319 think maybe last year I kept pulling the crone 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:51.960 as like a card and it kept coming up in readings 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:53.640 and I was just like how interesting, I didn't 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.460 really ever identify as a crone. I think we're 00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:57.880 always taught that the crone will be like when 00:31:57.880 --> 00:31:59.700 you're older and you move into a different transition 00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:02.380 in your life but we meet these different parts 00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:05.440 of ourselves continuously. Being a maiden is 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.460 not just being fun and fancy free, it greets 00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:10.859 you at different times and being a mother isn't 00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:12.880 always birthing children's birthing projects 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:16.589 and art and creativity. And being a crone is, 00:32:16.589 --> 00:32:18.769 you know, ending a cycle when you take that wisdom 00:32:18.769 --> 00:32:21.190 into another cycle. There's nothing to do about 00:32:21.190 --> 00:32:25.089 ages. I think, yeah, for me, the idea of the 00:32:25.089 --> 00:32:27.630 princess and the witch is just owning that you 00:32:27.630 --> 00:32:31.250 kind of get to be everything. And you can fall 00:32:31.250 --> 00:32:33.329 into these different archetypes as you change 00:32:33.329 --> 00:32:35.630 and evolve. And, yeah, you can dance with all 00:32:35.630 --> 00:32:37.609 of the goddesses at different points. I completely 00:32:37.609 --> 00:32:39.819 agree. Like when I was... Like a kid, I always 00:32:39.819 --> 00:32:41.259 eschewed the idea of being a princess, mainly 00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:43.619 because I wasn't like blonde and I was told, 00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.920 well, you can't be the princess because you're 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:47.359 not blonde. And I mean, that's a whole other 00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:49.420 conversation in itself. But I think now that 00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:52.400 I'm in my 40s, I've become more princessy than 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.099 before because it's like, no, I can just rest. 00:32:55.259 --> 00:32:58.299 I don't have to be doing it all. And I mean, 00:32:58.460 --> 00:33:01.440 Maria, like. when it comes to beauty sleep in 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.960 sort of things like because obviously you create 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:05.400 beautiful like turbans and pillowcases and products 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.240 designed to sort of maximize sleep so how does 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:12.000 that kind of land with you so i think women now 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.700 are starting to realize how important the more 00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:17.460 we start to realize that we should allow ourselves 00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:20.799 that time it's allowing yourself isn't it it's 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.460 like giving yourself permission to like do that 00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:27.180 and not we actually deserve to look after ourselves 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:29.859 And it's taken me a long time. No one teaches 00:33:29.859 --> 00:33:33.099 us that it's like no you must sacrifice And just 00:33:33.099 --> 00:33:37.259 be of service. Yeah, I was a single mom I had 00:33:37.259 --> 00:33:39.900 three children to bring up and it's a machine 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:45.039 like just you know, just pounding away and I 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:49.619 think to get to a place I Think things have got 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:52.980 to happen to before you realize oh my god, I 00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:55.779 am so important. I must take care of myself, 00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:00.759 you know So, yeah, I'm all for people allowing 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:05.740 themselves the grace to sleep, you know? Does 00:34:05.740 --> 00:34:07.619 anyone have any... We've got time for a few quick 00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:10.119 questions. Does anyone have anything that they'd 00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:13.760 like to add? I have a question for Pia. If you 00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.619 were going to... This will be hard, sorry. If 00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:20.820 you had to prescribe or post -scribe a certain 00:34:20.820 --> 00:34:24.980 set of notes... for a princess fragrance versus 00:34:24.980 --> 00:34:28.699 a witch fragrance what would those be even if 00:34:28.699 --> 00:34:33.179 they were only three per? I mean you could think 00:34:33.179 --> 00:34:35.659 about it from well are we talking Europe are 00:34:35.659 --> 00:34:38.340 we talking you know which which culture because 00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:40.820 first I would think well in what culture but 00:34:40.820 --> 00:34:43.039 if I think well obviously I'm European so I have 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.869 to think European I think for which obviously 00:34:45.869 --> 00:34:48.130 you're thinking cauldrons, you're thinking, you 00:34:48.130 --> 00:34:51.530 know, nighttime, you're thinking pet familiars 00:34:51.530 --> 00:34:53.809 and things like that. So it could be interesting 00:34:53.809 --> 00:34:56.809 to try something that's got both the sort of 00:34:56.809 --> 00:34:59.570 maybe smoky elements and something like vetiver 00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:02.030 root and patchouli and something that's kind 00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:06.349 of associated with deeper chords and definitely 00:35:06.349 --> 00:35:09.349 something resinous and balsamic and long lasting 00:35:09.349 --> 00:35:14.289 and unctuous. I think the entire liquid should 00:35:14.289 --> 00:35:17.389 look pretty dark actually. But then you could 00:35:17.389 --> 00:35:19.829 do some fun twists, you could add something like 00:35:19.829 --> 00:35:21.630 blackcurrant or something like that, so kind 00:35:21.630 --> 00:35:27.909 of make it also a bit more interesting. And then, 00:35:27.909 --> 00:35:30.329 you know, princess, I actually like the fact 00:35:30.329 --> 00:35:32.610 that we've come to a conclusion that a princess 00:35:32.610 --> 00:35:36.579 is not an age. princess is a mindset or a way 00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:38.960 to behave or a way to expect the world to treat 00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:45.159 you and so for princess I think there's a suggestion 00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:47.820 of what well you know maybe maybe you're thinking 00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:49.420 something more delicate maybe you're thinking 00:35:49.420 --> 00:35:52.400 something more transparent so immediately you're 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.260 you're drawn to things like citruses and florals 00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:57.719 and you're thinking I don't actually want to 00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:01.170 go sort of infantilize the princess. I don't 00:36:01.170 --> 00:36:04.590 want to put her in cookies and cream and all 00:36:04.590 --> 00:36:07.969 that. I would like to see her have a delicate 00:36:07.969 --> 00:36:11.389 neroli, I mean princess neroli, that's kind of 00:36:11.389 --> 00:36:14.030 an actual historic perfumery connection. So I 00:36:14.030 --> 00:36:17.610 think if I, I was put on the spot today and I 00:36:17.610 --> 00:36:19.869 was told go there and make the perfume now, I 00:36:19.869 --> 00:36:22.670 would build it around neroli and orange blossom 00:36:22.670 --> 00:36:26.050 and light masks. I love neroli, it's one of my 00:36:26.050 --> 00:36:29.320 favourites. It's wonderful. I think, yeah, thank 00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:32.880 you to my panelist so much. Really enjoyed chatting 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:35.880 with you and thank you to everyone. Thank you 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.619 to the lovely Nicola who is the proprietor of 00:36:38.619 --> 00:36:42.000 this fine establishment. But yes, thank you all 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.440 so much and thank you guys. I appreciate it. 00:36:48.429 --> 00:36:50.829 I felt like my brain has grown and I've been 00:36:50.829 --> 00:36:54.289 enriched by everyone's opinion, so thank you. 00:36:54.710 --> 00:36:57.329 I love you more than you today. It's great. I 00:36:57.329 --> 00:36:58.429 could talk about this for a while. I love this 00:36:58.429 --> 00:37:01.489 topic. I know. It's so great. It's a topic I've 00:37:01.489 --> 00:37:04.269 never thought about. One thing I will add. One 00:37:04.269 --> 00:37:09.610 thing. Final note. Final note. is that I have 00:37:09.610 --> 00:37:12.010 been involved in beauty industry since I was 00:37:12.010 --> 00:37:15.309 almost a child myself. And I've seen some of 00:37:15.309 --> 00:37:17.409 the ugly sides of it, you know, I've seen the 00:37:17.409 --> 00:37:21.949 way, you know, you discussed how people often 00:37:21.949 --> 00:37:24.210 say, oh, you work in beauty, so therefore you 00:37:24.210 --> 00:37:26.090 can't be a feminist, you can't be, you know, 00:37:26.250 --> 00:37:28.530 and you're sort of conforming to patriarchy and, 00:37:28.630 --> 00:37:31.949 you know, you're sort of a traitor to other women 00:37:31.949 --> 00:37:36.730 by promoting beauty. and the thing is there's 00:37:36.730 --> 00:37:39.150 like a difference between beauty that comes from 00:37:39.150 --> 00:37:41.489 intent of the woman wanting to serve her own 00:37:41.489 --> 00:37:45.750 needs and project her own personality and meet 00:37:45.750 --> 00:37:49.849 her own needs and comes from choice from the 00:37:49.849 --> 00:37:52.949 woman versus beauty that serves the needs of 00:37:52.949 --> 00:37:56.010 profit margins of corporations who are marketing 00:37:56.010 --> 00:37:59.650 to women's insecurities so there is something 00:37:59.650 --> 00:38:02.510 to be said for example about anti -aging where 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.519 That whole concept is kind of vile, but at the 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:09.119 same time, I didn't understand that that need 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:11.539 often comes from women themselves. It's not just 00:38:11.539 --> 00:38:16.099 marketing at women, but when I went past 50, 00:38:16.539 --> 00:38:18.699 there was one very memorable moment. I looked 00:38:18.699 --> 00:38:20.300 in the mirror in the morning and went, I don't 00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:23.300 recognise my face. It was a horrible moment. 00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:28.059 I don't look like myself anymore. And I just... 00:38:28.059 --> 00:38:30.820 It's like, who are you? And it was actually like 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:34.380 this, it was like a dysphoric moment. And I suddenly, 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.039 in a flash, understood anti -aging from a woman's 00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:39.460 perspective. I'd always assumed it was just greedy 00:38:39.460 --> 00:38:43.179 corporations saying, don't age, don't age, you 00:38:43.179 --> 00:38:44.579 know, you're not allowed to. And it was that 00:38:44.579 --> 00:38:47.400 one moment of like, oh, wait, wait, wait. I mean, 00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:49.000 you're made to feel guilty for feeling bad about 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:52.719 aging. Yeah. And then when I tried, I tried Botox 00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.559 straight away, like the very next week. And it 00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:00.000 made my brows droop hideously. didn't want to 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.860 touch it again but I suddenly understood I had 00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:06.380 like complete panic like I didn't recognize my 00:39:06.380 --> 00:39:09.119 own face and that was that was a powerful moment 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:12.300 and so I think we too quickly sort of put it 00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:14.739 in that binary category oh you know anti -aging 00:39:14.739 --> 00:39:19.460 is always bad or interesting beauty or looking 00:39:19.460 --> 00:39:21.400 after yourself or doing these nightly beauty 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:24.219 rituals of kind of when can I get the best time 00:39:24.219 --> 00:39:27.480 for myself to keep my skin and hair looking beautiful. 00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:31.719 It's not for men, it's for us. And at the end 00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:34.820 of the day, we're no better than those who went 00:39:34.820 --> 00:39:37.760 after witches in all these trials. The worst 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.639 thing we can do is go after other women. Yes, 00:39:40.659 --> 00:39:43.300 exactly. Who are making and living with their 00:39:43.300 --> 00:39:47.349 choices. Exactly, and I always... call people 00:39:47.349 --> 00:39:50.869 out if I in my peer group or anywhere hear people 00:39:50.869 --> 00:39:54.110 criticizing someone who's had injections or someone 00:39:54.110 --> 00:39:58.030 who's had a facelift or someone who wears something 00:39:58.030 --> 00:39:59.889 that looks a bit slutty or whatever I was like 00:39:59.889 --> 00:40:03.590 how dare you actually you know it's up to them 00:40:03.590 --> 00:40:06.230 and so that's to me we all find different ways 00:40:06.230 --> 00:40:08.349 to cope yeah exactly so I'm not going to judge 00:40:08.349 --> 00:40:11.409 anyone I really don't you know if somebody's 00:40:11.420 --> 00:40:14.920 doing something otherwise unpleasant being a 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:16.559 bigoted or whatever then that's you know criticize 00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:19.179 that but don't ever dare to criticize whether 00:40:19.179 --> 00:40:22.739 they've had filler or not no 100 % well wise 00:40:22.739 --> 00:40:38.539 words to end on I hope you enjoyed that episode 00:40:38.780 --> 00:40:40.739 All links will be in the show notes and feel 00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:44.159 free to visit smartbeautycreative .com or visit 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:46.599 us over on Instagram to find out more about what 00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.059 we do. And if you enjoyed listening, please don't 00:40:49.059 --> 00:40:51.440 forget to rate and review Smart Beauty on iTunes 00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:54.079 as it helps people find us. See you next time.