Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast.
I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist
and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart
Beauty Creative. We're here to create your brand
voice and craft the story behind it. Hello and
welcome to today's episode. Today we are talking
about mushrooms, which have been a hot topic
in wellness for quite some time and for good
reason, as today's guest will explain. I'm speaking
with Dr. Catalina Fernandez. founder and CEO
of Hifasta Terra. They're a biotech based wellness
company that's been at the forefront of medicinal
mushroom research for over 25 years. So there's
basically no better authority on the topic. They
specialize in the therapeutic use of mushrooms,
creating highly concentrated extracts and clinical
trials in partnerships with hospitals across
Europe. As many of you know, mushrooms have been
used in traditional medicine for centuries. but
Western science seems to finally be catching
up to their many benefits. In this conversation,
we cover the fascinating biology of why mushrooms
are so potent, the clinical results and exactly
how these compounds work in our immune systems.
We also discussed the shift towards integrative
medicine and why this ancient remedy is finally
being recognised by mainstream healthcare and
can hopefully complement and lessen the side
effects when it comes to harsh procedures like
cancer treatments. So it's really a compelling
conversation backed by serious science. Let's
dive in. Catalina, thank you so much for joining
me today. Really lovely to have you on the podcast.
Now you specialize in mycotherapy. What I'm interested
in is why mushrooms now have become a really
important tool for health and wellness and are
now seen as medicine rather than food. So mushrooms
right now, they have a long history that have
been with us. I mean, they have been in the earth
for millions of years and they have evolved together
with us. But there is a lot of evidence in traditional
Chinese medicine, in other types of medicine,
traditional medicines. But nowadays we are unveiling
the metabolic roots, all the molecules that are
behind all of these effects. And we know now
that they contain bioactive compounds such as
beta -glucans, tritapines, polysaccharides that
are going to modulate the immune system and are
going to enhance cellular communication and promoting
even apoptosis, for example, in cancer cells,
which is very difficult to understand sometimes
how they can have so many actions in one. uh
in one same product or one same mushroom but
it's because they contain such a vast variety
of molecules of components that obviously they
are in very small quantities they're not like
a drug but they are in in very small quantities
but very varied so you're going to see an enormous
capacity of action in each mushroom when we're
talking about the whole system holistically.
So what we are going to see is anti -inflammatory
and antioxidant properties that are going to
contribute to overall health and resilience against
disease, because we know that always the inflammation
underlies every disease. Yes. Having these capacities
and the antioxidant capacity as well, thinking
that final oxidation is death. As long as we
can fight oxidation, we will live longer and
stay stronger. And I imagine they're useful with
things like fertility issues as well, and just
people that are wanting to live well in general,
as well as the preventative thing. I mean, it's
such a hot topic at the moment. What is it about
mushrooms that makes them this potent? Is it
because they're a night shade? Is it how they're
grown? Can you shed some light on that? I think
it's because they're so old. On my earth and
because they are sessiles meaning that they are
static they're sitting there. Everything attacks
them so the wind animals the temperature they
need to adapt to everything because they need
to adapt without being able to scape or you know
to get high hidden somewhere they just need to
produce very strong molecules. enzymes, they
have all types of vitamins, they have strategies,
antiviral strategies, they have also antibiotic
properties, because they suffer from all of these
illnesses as well, and they need to fight them.
And they've been there since the longest period
on Earth, even before humans, before animals,
before many plants. So they have to evolve. What
we're seeing today, the mushrooms that we know
today, are the evolution of the first ones and
then they went to evolution like all the rest
on the planet. So they are very intricate creatures
that really have properties that made them stronger
and resilient for themselves. So when we take
them into our body, when we eat them, basically,
they bring us that resilience. Just like what
doesn't kill you makes you stronger, is that
the case? Exactly. And in your own personal journey,
was there anything that you witnessed that made
you think, yes, this is the... this is what I
want to study, this is what I want to get into.
Was there one kind of specific event or incident
that was really the turning point for you? I
have to say that's every day. It's every day.
I mean, the strength that I see in these creatures,
as I say, I mean, what they bring to humanity,
it's so strong when you treat them with respect,
when you're putting the right amount, the right
purity. and the right potency of them into a
formula. What you can see the results. We work
very much with cancer patients. We're running
clinical trials. So why we're doing this, it's
because when we started, doctors started and
therapist came back to us saying, what you're
doing, it's impressive. I've tested in different
patients and I'm seeing incredible results. So
we were hand with hand with them. Trialing and
trying to bring evidence to us the solidity of
that comes with the evidence and scientist we're
always trying to backing everything up with science
and with evidence so what we could see is that
there was a solid evidence that. you know the
products are we're really working and making
a difference so this was the turning point from
the very beginning where we said my goodness
i mean this is so um so important what these
mushrooms can bring to society for the improving
the health worldwide and so i have to say obviously
the most i would say like the most impressive
results i have seen always cancer That is something
that really impresses me. Because we're talking
that we're always working alongside standard
care in hospitals, always alongside. I think
that's important to emphasise, isn't it? It should
not replace any standard. We're never talking
about alternatives. We're talking about alongside
care. Yes, of course. And what we are seeing
is that the treatments work faster, better, and
People don't have all these side effects, so
it reduces enormously all the side effects, so
it improves our life quality for the patients.
Yes. And we can see results faster and better.
Then also, for example, with With even rare diseases
we have hospitals in spain with very rare diseases
where doctors have said you know in those illnesses
where i cannot find anything to help the patient
i always go to mushrooms to your mushrooms because
it's it's like i always find that they alleviate
the symptoms of the patients. End and then i
mean we've seen. You can see results in sleeping,
in digestive issues, people that couldn't bear
like an orange juice or eating red meat. And
that suddenly after a month and a half, two months,
they can really go back to a normal diet and
they tolerate everything. Yes. People that had
a digestologist, a doctor, gastrointestinal,
she was she had 32 allergies in food allergies
she had tested everything with herself so she
came to us like quite desperate and she started
with lion's mane extract and after three months
she had only 11 from those 32 33 and like six
months after she was only left with two allergies
so she was impressed with this and to me is always
when there's not obvious when obviously when
you have like us something that it's um subjective
to okay it can be or it cannot be it's it's nice
but when you have real data where you have analysis
where you can see the numbers and you can see
the clinical evidence that this is working it's
where it's really impressive So is that why Western
medicine is finally kind of waking up to it,
because that clinical evidence is now there in
front of them, so they have to take notice of
it? Exactly. And can you explain, kind of in
layman's terms, actually, you know, how they
work in the body, if that's not too much of an
ask? So what, how they're going to work, they
are going to work, overall, they're going to
work on the immune system. training your immune
system to work faster. So the difference between
health and illness is the time your system takes
to respond to an insult. Do they do that by balancing
the bacteria in the gut? Is that how they kind
of help with like retrain the immune system?
Well, that's one of the ways, but the other one
is with what I was saying, like they have beta
-glucans. Beta -glucans, what they do is they're
going to activate different lock, they're called
locus of action. So places of the, uh, the cells
that are there are the APCs. So they are antigen
presenter cells and meaning in the immune system
that they are like the surveillance. So they're
going to activate the surveillance of the immune
system. So whenever you get in touch with a virus,
with a bacteria, so someone sneezes in front
of you. And you get a virus inside or you get
a bacteria and you so you need to respond rapidly
to that bacteria or that virus it normally happens
but if at that time. You are occupied with something
else. Your system might not recognize that virus
or that bacteria. That bacteria or virus starts
to multiply and suddenly you have an army of
bacteria or virus to fight. So the faster we
encounter that insult, the faster we respond
to that, the shorter the illness will be. And
that is what mushrooms do. They orchestrate.
Your response of your immune system against those
insults and against those attack attackers that
are going to attack us or you know cancer cell
that mutates. And that you need to recognize
and destroy so that is one of the mechanisms
that the mushrooms use another one is as we were
saying it's controlling inflammation. Or, for
example, they are scavengers of the free radicals.
So free radicals are going to oxidate us. Total
oxidation is the moment we die. So the more we
can contain that oxidation by controlling those
free radicals, the longer we live. It's not only
about how beautiful my skin will look, how well
my organs are being kept and younger, my digestive
system, my heart, my lungs, my liver. So the
longevity and the anti -ageing process or pro
-aging is not only about skin, but it's about
every single cell of our body or every organ
of our body that needs to keep on healthy and
young. And it's taking you 25 years to kind of
get the medical establishment to sort of really
take this seriously. I mean, what have been the
biggest barriers for you throughout that time?
Well, they're always the same question. Is there
evidence? Then is there enough evidence? Yes.
And then, you know, having Convincing with data,
because one thing is to read about bibliography
and what's published already and saying, okay,
this and this has been published, which is what
normally the industry does. So it's reading from
other that have published. The difference with
Eva Zatera is that what we're doing is we are
creating science. That is the beauty for me,
which is We are really working in the lab. We
are working also in clinic with patients and
with thousands of doctors throughout Europe and
so on. So we are seeing the results. We are trialing
the mushrooms with different concentrations,
with different impurities, and we can establish
where where are the limits and what they can
do? And we're bringing this to evidence. And
I think that's the most difficult thing that
we have had to do in these 25, 26 years. And
obviously there's the great kind of sustainability
angle as well, because obviously mushrooms play
a key role in preserving ecosystems. Yes, and
that is beautiful to me also, this angle of how
we can improve the planet. by cultivating more
mushrooms by, I always ask people to change 30
% of their diet in meat content for mushroom,
only 30%, not even more than that. But just by
doing that, we would be decreasing the pressure
on that all the cattle does in the world. Yes.
Contamination, the pollution. what rather than
the the the mushrooms that what they're doing
is they are decomposing the organic matter they're
enriching the soils they are forming some biotic
relations with the plants so they had they play
an incredible role in biodiversity and sustainability
so it's really it's really good when we the more
mushrooms we grow the more we help the planet
It feels to me like things are coming full circle
that people are realizing that food is medicine.
Would you say that's the case? Totally. I think
we have moved forward a lot in the last years
and I truly think that we're moving to a new
paradigm where food is really recognized as medicine,
either as medicine or as poison. We can either
either you know increase the chances of a cancer
increase the chances of autoimmune diseases and
really harm ourselves with what we choose to
eat or we can use it as a medicine though i can
envision a future where mushrooms and other functional
foods are integrated with. Conventional healthcare
practices where you go to a hospital and obviously
they are, you're going to have multidisciplinary,
uh, teams, which is already happening in many
places. And where you're going to see a nutritionist
that is going to follow you and give you, first
of all, your diet. Last Congress I was in, in,
um, in England, in Oxford is IO, which was the
Interative Oncology Congress from worldwide.
And we were looking at the guidelines that are
set in us at ASCO this year, where exercise is
also taken in as a pure medicine, saying exercise
is as important as the standard care of medicine.
They are putting it in already. So if we're looking
at exercise, we of course need to look into the
nutrition plan. Of a patient and of every person
because. The path that we are going to follow
in life. It's going to be led by the decisions
we make every day in our choices and what we
eat what we put into our system in any way. Is
what makes it's the outcome we're going to have
on the short or mid or long term. So I totally
agree with this yes. Do you think that maybe
we've become sort of not that you know Western
medicine of course has its place but do you think
in a way we've become so reliant on medication
that we don't bother to look at these things
you've just said about you know what we're eating
and what we're actually putting in our bodies
because we think well I've got this medication
so that should be and that should be enough.
Yeah it is totally like that because I think
so sometimes people get to us or to me personally
and they say how what can I take but I I just
don't want to change my sodas, you know, or what
I drink, being fizzy drinks every day, or I don't
want to change my meat intake, and I take meat
every single day, or pork, or... And then I say,
you know, I cannot help you. If you are not going,
if you're not willing to change something in
your life, taking pills is not going to work,
you know? We need to really think that there's
not a, but not even in pharma, there's not a
miraculous cure. I think we grew up thinking
that you could take a, you know, like a donut
and, and drink fizzy drinks the whole day, but
then you would take the miraculous pill that
would control everything. Yes. And that balances
it out apparently. And that balance is out and
it doesn't work like this. And we're seeing it
now, you know, 70 years after. We started all
of this process. Now we're seeing what is provoking
and we see that we cannot go further like this.
So I think that we need to change and this is
what everybody's talking in the big arena of
healthcare worldwide where we're seeing that
we need to change the system and the medicine
that intervenes for the medicine that prevines.
prevent it needs a 360 approach doesn't it i
think that's what people are waking up to holistic
wellness it's not about replacing anything it's
just about you know having that having that sort
of 360 approach and have you know making sure
that like you say that's kind of preventative
as well as as well as just curing and and drugs
are so important they're lifesavers yes of course
i mean an antibiotic when you have a bad bug
that's inside of you it's going to make the difference
going to cure you you know But we need to leave
them to act when they have to act. We cannot
take antibiotics because we have a flu. That's
not the way it goes. So that's why we're causing
incredible resistances in the world. And we need
to face now 17 really, really bad bugs that kill
us and that they're killing millions of people.
And so for that as well, we're looking at new
antibiotics for mushrooms. And we're working,
we're seeing, you know, big possibilities and
other big antibiotics that are coming, but we
need to change the mindset of how big drugs are
being used and, you know, understand that there
needs to be an empowerment of the patient, of
the people, of society, on taking care of ourselves
by exercise and by doing mindfulness, by you
know, understanding our feelings, how we feel,
how we express. So many factors, aren't there?
So many things play a role. Yeah. Do you think
that's why the traditional wellness world has
that kind of stigma attached to it? Because people
assume that they're trying to replace Western
medicine when actually it's complementing it.
I think always when something surges as something
new, It's like an impact where, where people,
um, tend to, to change what they were doing for
this new. But then we, uh, with time with science
learns is that we need to make one medicine,
which is the medicine that cures. And that's
it. So it's the integration of everything that
cures and that keeps. society alive and healthy,
it's what we need to build that new medicine.
And this brings in the drugs, the natural supplements,
the good food, organic, you know, well taken
care without preservatives and all of this. And
so that's why we do not believe on alternatives.
We always call this integrative, where we need
the integration of everything that will keep
an individual safe. And you need to use a different
tool at different moments. Exactly. And as you
know, the wellness industry is awash with misinformation
and scaremongering. And as somebody who has an
academic background, coming into the wellness
industry, you must have seen certain things that
you found quite shocking or thought, you know,
this really needs to change. What do you say?
Yeah. First of all, the quality. quality of things
that are being produced i think you know innovation
and the passion that i see in the wellness industry
is really nice but i would really like and enjoy
to see more rigorous scientific validation of
the products. And because even with mushrooms
mushrooms are like sponges so they are incredible
beneficial incredibly beneficial. but they can
also be calents, they are calents in fact, and
calents of the soils or wherever they are being
produced. So either you're cleaning your system
or you're cleaning the system where they are
growing. So you need to be very careful that
when you are taking those mushrooms that they
are completely free of heavy metals, pesticides
or anything, because if they were produced, in
a soil that was contaminated or polluted, then
they might be taking all of that out. You don't
want to be the final deposit for that. Also with
plants, so many plants are being used with pesticides
over them. They don't have this big control on
it. And to be honest, none of the food that we
eat has a lot of control in that sense. Pesticides
and chemicals of all types. That's why we're
seeing this rising of autoimmune diseases and
cancer and all of it. Yes, and not everyone can
afford to eat organic. So it's very difficult.
What are you most excited about the future? Well,
to me, the future is we have so many projects.
Where I see that this is really exciting is when
it can come to be used by, you know, as standard
care. Where we will be seeing that in order to
improve microbiota, we're not only talking about
probiotics, but we're talking about periodic
biotech. So when you're going to take an antibiotic
and it's going to be prescribed by an MD, well,
they're going to give you alongside the mushrooms
as prebiotics. We're going to be taking a cycle
of chemotherapy, they're going to prepare you
first with the mushroom treatment, the extracts
are pure and so that you then tolerate better,
you know, reduces the side effects so it makes
it less unpleasant. So looking always at it as
how can they help? You know, how can we put them
alongside standard care? The way we can see is
how much can we help? What can we bring to society
to help people live better? And this is what
Ifa Zatera does. And I think that you've outlined
that really beautifully. Thank you so much, Catalina,
for speaking with me today. I really appreciate
it. Thank you. Hello and welcome to the Smart
Beauty Podcast. I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty
journalist and founder of copy led branding agency,
Smart Beauty Creative. We're here to create your
brand voice and craft the story behind it.