WEBVTT 00:00:12.559 --> 00:00:15.300 Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast. 00:00:15.859 --> 00:00:18.699 I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist 00:00:18.699 --> 00:00:21.640 and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:24.379 Beauty Creative. We're here to create your brand 00:00:24.379 --> 00:00:33.920 voice and craft the story behind it. Hello everyone. 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:37.560 Now when it comes to sustainability, as many 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.420 of you know, it can be a real minefield, especially 00:00:40.420 --> 00:00:44.060 with greenwashing abounding in our industry. 00:00:44.619 --> 00:00:47.679 So today I'm really excited to be speaking to 00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:50.420 Tasha Nixon, Partnerships Manager at the Soil 00:00:50.420 --> 00:00:52.560 Association. We're talking about what actually 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:56.539 makes a compelling sustainability story and why 00:00:56.539 --> 00:00:59.659 getting certification like being Soil Association 00:00:59.659 --> 00:01:02.700 certified matters more than ever and we also 00:01:02.700 --> 00:01:05.079 look at the practical challenges and particularly 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:07.599 small brand space and when trying to do the right 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:11.640 thing because sustainability isn't cheap, the 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.939 importance of being specific with your claims 00:01:14.939 --> 00:01:18.620 rather than just those generic vague terms and 00:01:18.620 --> 00:01:20.920 also why the word natural doesn't necessarily 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:23.640 mean what you think it does. So let's get into 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:26.560 it. So Tasha thank you so much for joining me 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:30.040 on the podcast. Lovely to have you on as a guest 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:33.439 and to get your get your perspective on the beauty 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:36.239 industry as it relates to the Soil Association. 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:40.379 So yeah thank you so much for your time. Thanks 00:01:40.379 --> 00:01:42.519 so much for having me. Oh, you're so welcome. 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:46.959 So from your perspective, what makes a compelling 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:50.120 sustainability story when it comes to the beauty 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:54.939 and wellbeing sector? I think what's really compelling 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:57.879 is tapping into what inspires the concept of 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:01.159 the business to begin with. So keeping true to 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:04.480 the story is really authentic and that will be 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:06.900 compelling to your customers. So there's a brand 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:09.599 that comes to mind, Amina's Natural Skin Care 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.139 is one that we work with who uses heritage ingredients 00:02:12.139 --> 00:02:14.520 from their home in Jordan. And I think that helps 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:19.180 to engage with their customers. And what is the 00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:23.800 best way of communicating organic credentials, 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.120 if you're a brand, how can you make it feel sort 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:32.879 of credible and relevant to the consumer? I think 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.400 you really need to explain what they mean. So 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.439 we did a study that showed 84 % of consumers 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:42.020 say aspects of Cosmos certification is important 00:02:42.020 --> 00:02:44.439 to them when buying new beauty and wellbeing 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:47.500 products, but they may not know that Cosmos certification 00:02:47.500 --> 00:02:50.939 covers these things like animal testing or sustainably 00:02:50.939 --> 00:02:54.020 sourced ingredients. So tell them why it's important 00:02:54.020 --> 00:02:56.259 and really explain what the benefits of your 00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:59.340 certifications are. And obviously there are a 00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:02.400 lot of kind of mistakes that brands sort of tend 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:07.039 to make when it comes to explaining their sustainable, 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:09.219 you know, sustainable ethos. I mean, what are 00:03:09.219 --> 00:03:12.199 the main pitfalls in your experience do you see 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:16.259 brands making? I think it's being vague with 00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:19.419 your claims so if you're not direct about what 00:03:19.419 --> 00:03:26.460 is sustainable or what is ethical, they might 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:29.199 make assumptions about things if you're not direct 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:31.460 enough and then they may be disappointed to find 00:03:31.460 --> 00:03:36.300 out that that isn't what they assume to be true. 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.020 Definitely and I think With certifications such 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:42.280 as the Soil Association, it gives consumers the 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.659 extra peace of mind, doesn't it? When they're 00:03:44.659 --> 00:03:48.759 reading about a brand's green credentials, I 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:50.719 think having that kind of stamp of approval really 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.860 makes all the difference. Do you think that this 00:03:54.860 --> 00:03:58.439 kind of certification is being used to its full 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:00.740 potential at the moment by brands, especially 00:04:00.740 --> 00:04:02.699 when it comes to things like storytelling and 00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:07.020 marketing? Yeah, I think that's really true. 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.139 I think there are some brands that stand out 00:04:09.139 --> 00:04:12.639 to do this really well. So Cyra Skin is an example. 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:16.759 Cyra, their owner, regularly promotes her brand 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.379 on their Instagram account. And she really explains 00:04:19.379 --> 00:04:21.819 the benefits of certification and why it's important 00:04:21.819 --> 00:04:23.920 for customers to look for these logos when buying 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:28.819 cosmetics. And there's a lot of kind of... I 00:04:28.819 --> 00:04:31.800 guess moving parts when it comes to sustainability 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:33.579 aren't there and there's a lot of in -depth kind 00:04:33.579 --> 00:04:37.480 of information that I think brands feel like 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:39.639 they have to go into when talking about their 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:43.199 eco -credentials. How do you think they can balance 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:45.779 that kind of the technical side of explaining 00:04:45.779 --> 00:04:48.160 what sustainability is and how they practice 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.220 it with the need to kind of have that kind of 00:04:51.220 --> 00:04:55.819 customer -friendly, you know, language and tone 00:04:55.819 --> 00:04:59.100 of voice? Yeah, sure. It's definitely a balance 00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:01.879 of really explaining the benefits of the certification, 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.259 but breaking it down in a way that's easy for 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:06.860 consumers to understand. I think most people 00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:09.540 with beauty brands will be formulators or even 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:11.180 just owning a beauty brand leaves you with a 00:05:11.180 --> 00:05:13.360 lot of technical knowledge that your consumers 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:16.439 might not have. So really breaking it down for 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:19.100 what it means to the customer and how they benefit 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:21.560 from these certifications is really important. 00:05:22.370 --> 00:05:24.850 Yeah, and I think kind of explaining it on you 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:26.709 know, so you don't have to explain it all at 00:05:26.709 --> 00:05:29.370 once do you I think sort of having Aspects of 00:05:29.370 --> 00:05:31.769 it sort of you know, maybe piecemeal fashion 00:05:31.769 --> 00:05:33.670 on social media or something like that. So it's 00:05:33.670 --> 00:05:37.129 a bit more digestible Yeah, exactly. Do you agree 00:05:37.129 --> 00:05:40.910 and Are there any other examples of brands? And 00:05:40.910 --> 00:05:42.889 I know you mentioned Cyrus that have kind of 00:05:42.889 --> 00:05:45.790 doing this particularly well at the moment Yeah, 00:05:45.790 --> 00:05:48.509 I think we work with so many really amazing brands, 00:05:48.569 --> 00:05:51.170 so it's hard to pick just one that stands out. 00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:54.029 But I think Natural Care is a really good example. 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.350 Their owner, Susie, is an avid campaigner and 00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:02.089 eco -warrior, and I think they explain and champion 00:06:02.089 --> 00:06:04.509 their certifications really well. I think they 00:06:04.509 --> 00:06:07.250 also, what works well is they explain the need 00:06:07.250 --> 00:06:09.410 for the certification in their products. So you 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:12.610 may have seen in the news recently that there's 00:06:12.610 --> 00:06:16.079 been tampons with extremely high pesticide residues 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:19.720 on them. And so Susie and the company will explain 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:22.860 how their various certifications will protect 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:26.399 their consumers from these things. And I guess 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.620 with things like sustainability, now people just 00:06:29.620 --> 00:06:31.759 expect it, right? They assume that it's part 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.600 of a brand's DNA, especially when it comes to 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:39.300 kind of new indie brands. So I guess what I'm 00:06:39.300 --> 00:06:41.459 saying is that brands kind of they shouldn't 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:43.579 be positioning it as if to say like, well, aren't 00:06:43.579 --> 00:06:45.399 we great because we're sustainable? I mean, what 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:48.300 advice would you give to brands who want to sort 00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:51.800 of communicate that without sort of, yeah, overstating 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:57.240 it too much? Yeah, I think overstating or vagueness 00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:59.720 is really what causes issues with your consumers. 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:01.639 And you want to be able to build trust with them 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.899 and say things that are true and evidence based. 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:07.839 So anything that's open to interpretation or 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:10.319 leads to assumptions, again, it's just you need 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:13.339 to be really clear and direct about what is ethical 00:07:13.339 --> 00:07:15.819 and what is sustainable about your business practice 00:07:15.819 --> 00:07:18.579 and your products. And I think that there's something 00:07:18.579 --> 00:07:20.839 to be said for visual storytelling as well. So 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:23.579 kind of rather than having chunks of texts where 00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:25.699 you sort of explain all of your credentials, 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.649 would you agree? Yeah, I completely agree. I 00:07:28.649 --> 00:07:31.069 think that packaging, for example, is a great 00:07:31.069 --> 00:07:34.189 tool for storytelling. You can use more sustainable 00:07:34.189 --> 00:07:36.769 options like FSC certified card for something 00:07:36.769 --> 00:07:39.149 that's recyclable or glass for something that 00:07:39.149 --> 00:07:42.350 can be refilled. And I think that further enforces 00:07:42.350 --> 00:07:45.040 your brand sustainability values without. like 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.160 you say, tons of text to have to read through. 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:49.220 No, for sure. I mean, do you think there are 00:07:49.220 --> 00:07:50.879 any other kind of or do you think there are any 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:54.860 underused sort of consumer touch points where 00:07:54.860 --> 00:07:58.379 beauty and well -being brands could be capitalizing 00:07:58.379 --> 00:08:00.160 on them a bit more when it comes to talking about 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:04.879 their ethics? Yeah, for me, it's all around ingredient 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:06.920 sourcing because I find that really interesting. 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.199 I think knowing where your natural ingredients 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.819 are sourced from or if they're organic, how that 00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:14.180 organic farming process really impacts the ingredients 00:08:14.180 --> 00:08:16.360 is really compelling and engaging for consumers. 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:18.779 And I don't really see it talked about as much 00:08:18.779 --> 00:08:21.500 as some of the other sustainability values. No, 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:23.819 definitely, because then, you know, it's all 00:08:23.819 --> 00:08:26.800 very well saying it's a natural beauty brand. 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:29.180 But then that has its own implications, doesn't 00:08:29.180 --> 00:08:31.779 it? Because natural doesn't always mean sustainable. 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:35.100 Natural isn't a regulated term in cosmetics. 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:37.580 And so without a certification, any brand can 00:08:37.580 --> 00:08:39.679 say it's natural when it might not really be. 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:43.059 No, exactly. And do you think it's, you know, 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.740 you're saying about like ingredients. Do you 00:08:45.740 --> 00:08:47.960 think that's what consumers respond to the most 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.399 when it comes to storytelling about sustainability 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:53.519 credentials? Or do you think it's a combination 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:57.700 of things? I really think it's a combination. 00:08:57.940 --> 00:09:00.700 We've done some research that shows 64 % of people 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:03.919 really care about animal testing and 47 % really 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:05.879 want natural ingredients. So I think it's a fairly 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.039 even split between kind of the ethics and the 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:10.240 sustainability. I mean, people just want to feel 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:12.259 good about the purchases they're making across 00:09:12.259 --> 00:09:15.179 a combination of these factors. And of course, 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:17.159 like the soil association, it's really sort of 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:19.559 come on leaps and bounds since it since it started 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:23.730 and it's very well known and respected. I mean, 00:09:23.789 --> 00:09:26.049 in your words, how do you think like having that 00:09:26.049 --> 00:09:28.690 certification helps brands, particularly beauty 00:09:28.690 --> 00:09:32.110 brands, kind of stand out in the beauty space 00:09:32.110 --> 00:09:34.590 when words like natural and clean are kind of 00:09:34.590 --> 00:09:37.879 banded about quite often? Yeah, and in the beauty 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:39.960 space, particularly unlike in things like food 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.960 and drink industry, organic and natural, they're 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.080 both words that are used to describe these products, 00:09:45.139 --> 00:09:47.940 but they're completely unregulated. So there's 00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:50.639 no legal protection for these words without the 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:53.980 certification, which can lead to them holding 00:09:53.980 --> 00:09:56.799 very little value amongst all the greenwashing 00:09:56.799 --> 00:09:59.740 that's happening. So we have seen a number of 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:01.740 products on the market claiming to be natural 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:03.700 or organic when there's very little evidence. 00:10:03.950 --> 00:10:07.070 against the ingredients that they have. So using 00:10:07.070 --> 00:10:09.490 the Soil Association and the Cosmos logos really 00:10:09.490 --> 00:10:11.970 builds trust with your customers and helps cut 00:10:11.970 --> 00:10:14.490 through all the noise in such an ever -growing 00:10:14.490 --> 00:10:16.889 market. And of course there are brands that are 00:10:16.889 --> 00:10:19.090 kind of trying to be more sustainable but might 00:10:19.090 --> 00:10:22.169 not be, might not have all the criteria for like 00:10:22.169 --> 00:10:24.409 the Soil Association certification for example. 00:10:24.909 --> 00:10:26.490 I mean how would you advise them because they 00:10:26.490 --> 00:10:29.559 might be kind of saying well you know we're we're 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:31.639 trying to be more sustainable and we sort of 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:34.720 use sustainable supplies where possible and we're 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.600 doing X, Y and Z. I mean do you think that's 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:40.200 kind of a good approach if you haven't got all 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:43.840 of your sustainability credentials solidified 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:47.019 as such yet? Yeah, definitely. I think if you're 00:10:47.019 --> 00:10:49.259 really honest and clear about what you are doing 00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:52.100 and even if you're admitting what maybe isn't 00:10:52.100 --> 00:10:54.899 going so well and what your targets are to improve 00:10:54.899 --> 00:10:57.500 them, just communicating that journey with your 00:10:57.500 --> 00:10:59.879 customers I think is really compelling for them. 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:02.179 Definitely. And are there any kind of types of 00:11:02.179 --> 00:11:06.720 content or campaigns that you think educate consumers 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.360 particularly well when it comes to things like 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:12.700 what does certified organic mean and things like 00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:16.039 that? Yeah, I mean the big one for us is Organic 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.840 September. It's a great campaign for the brands 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:20.700 to join in with because there's already such 00:11:20.700 --> 00:11:23.519 a buzz for organics across the month and then 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:25.500 we have Organic Beauty and Wellbeing Week towards 00:11:25.500 --> 00:11:28.100 the end of the month. So we've seen some really 00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:30.379 successful collaborations with brands across 00:11:30.379 --> 00:11:33.580 beauty, clothing and food sectors during Organic 00:11:33.580 --> 00:11:37.159 September. With Organic it goes all the way back 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:39.000 to the farming methods and you know keeping the 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:43.220 soils healthy. So it's engaging consumers across 00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:45.799 multiple sectors with the same messaging works 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:48.600 really well during that month? No, definitely. 00:11:48.740 --> 00:11:52.620 And I think there is a lot of storytelling opportunities 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:56.200 when it comes to what a brand is doing behind 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:59.500 the scenes that often the consumer doesn't often 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:01.519 see. Do you think that brands can lean on that 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.720 more and give consumers more of an insight into 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.919 what's going on and all of the sustainability 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:10.840 methods that they're putting in place? Yeah, 00:12:11.019 --> 00:12:13.039 exactly. I mean, take the customers behind the 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:15.480 scenes with you, show them the ups and downs 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.039 of your business and how products are formulated. 00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:19.940 I think it's a really great way to engage with 00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:22.470 them that's really authentic. I mean, there is 00:12:22.470 --> 00:12:25.970 the kind of issue with cost when it comes to 00:12:25.970 --> 00:12:29.289 sustainability, because obviously with things 00:12:29.289 --> 00:12:32.490 like packaging and suppliers, they're not always 00:12:32.490 --> 00:12:33.929 the most cost effective route. And when you're 00:12:33.929 --> 00:12:37.009 a small brand, I guess that's a huge concern. 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:39.409 I mean, how do you what's your take on that? 00:12:39.409 --> 00:12:41.850 And how do you think brands should approach that? 00:12:42.490 --> 00:12:44.950 In your opinion, I think. Yeah, especially for 00:12:44.950 --> 00:12:46.750 the smaller brands and the growing brands, it 00:12:46.750 --> 00:12:50.149 can be a cost issue to begin with. But I think, 00:12:50.269 --> 00:12:53.610 as I said, working on your journey towards your 00:12:53.610 --> 00:12:55.889 certification and explaining to your customers 00:12:55.889 --> 00:12:58.850 where your goals are and what you're doing so 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:00.950 far and what you're working towards is really 00:13:00.950 --> 00:13:06.029 interesting to see. And do you think having collaborations 00:13:06.029 --> 00:13:10.149 with creatives and influencers, that can help 00:13:10.149 --> 00:13:12.899 kind of reinforce that message too? Yeah, definitely. 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.740 I mean, during Organic September, I think a couple 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:18.679 of years ago, we saw a great collaboration with 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:22.139 a organic kidswear brand called Fruge, an organic 00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:24.480 food brand called Hero and an organic drinks 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.500 brand called Pip Organic, who partnered up with 00:13:27.500 --> 00:13:30.460 organic beauty brand Green People. And so they 00:13:30.460 --> 00:13:33.259 had this collaboration partnership, which centered 00:13:33.259 --> 00:13:36.200 around where Eat Drink Protect was the campaign. 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:38.639 And it took a really holistic view of organic 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.259 living and for families. And I think that working 00:13:42.259 --> 00:13:44.720 together across the sectors and even working 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.399 with other beauty brands is a really great way 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:51.779 to help grow your reach and also have that kind 00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:55.159 of collaborative teamwork approach. No, definitely. 00:13:55.340 --> 00:13:58.000 And how do you find like the beauty industry? 00:13:58.100 --> 00:13:59.620 Because I know that the Soil Association, you 00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:01.919 work across a lot of different sectors. I mean, 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:03.620 how do you think the beauty industry is doing 00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:06.720 compared to things like food and other sectors 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.179 that you work with? Beauty is actually really 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:11.799 strong at the moment. We saw the organic market 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:14.679 grow 11 % last year and the total organic market 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.559 grew 8 % so it was outperforming total organic 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:21.159 market as a really established sector. Do you 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:22.759 think there are any kind of missed opportunities 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.620 in how organic beauty brands tell their story 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:29.360 today? I think controversially that relying too 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.519 heavily on your certification alone is a missed 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.480 opportunity. The products still have to be really 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.039 great and the messaging will get lost if the 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:40.320 products aren't any good so great products lead 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:42.679 to brand loyalty which is then where you can 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:44.940 tell your story and explain your certifications 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:47.320 to customers that are already loving the product. 00:14:47.980 --> 00:14:49.600 Yeah do you think brands maybe like sometimes 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:50.820 start out with a mission that they're going to 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:53.039 be organic but then take their eye off the ball 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.539 when it comes to where the product is concerned 00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:57.480 and if the product's actually actually any good? 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:00.659 I think there is a risk of that yeah definitely. 00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:05.110 And are there any other ways that you as an organization 00:15:05.110 --> 00:15:07.769 kind of support the brands that you work with 00:15:07.769 --> 00:15:11.389 to help them kind of communicate that certification, 00:15:12.429 --> 00:15:15.019 sort of touching on what you just said? Yeah, 00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:17.799 exactly. So my role is partnerships manager here, 00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:21.320 which means that I support our brands in beauty 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:23.519 and wellbeing and also in textiles. So helping 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.519 them communicate their certification, whether 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:28.360 that's through key messaging or engaging with 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.720 our campaigns like Organic September that I mentioned, 00:15:30.980 --> 00:15:33.460 or we sometimes invite them for panels and events. 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.779 So at the moment, we're working with Cosmos to 00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:38.700 create some marketing materials that will really 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:41.320 help communicate the key messaging for certification 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:44.679 for these brands. And we recently worked with 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.220 our, we have a team of beauty ambassadors that 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:50.659 do some great work for us and in small business 00:15:50.659 --> 00:15:53.340 May they worked with some of our smallest certified 00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:56.740 brands to kind of spotlight them and help them 00:15:56.740 --> 00:16:00.919 grow their reach on our social media pages and 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.200 on our Instagram. Amazing so it doesn't stop 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:05.659 with the certification then you're kind of supporting 00:16:05.659 --> 00:16:08.740 them at every sort of step of the journey as 00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:11.889 well. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm always happy 00:16:11.889 --> 00:16:14.509 to hear new ways I can help businesses, what 00:16:14.509 --> 00:16:17.629 would be most useful to them. And what kind of 00:16:17.629 --> 00:16:20.509 trends are you seeing when it comes to sustainability 00:16:20.509 --> 00:16:23.610 and wellbeing? What kind of brand narratives 00:16:23.610 --> 00:16:26.429 are consumers being drawn to at the moment? I 00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:28.230 think the biggest trend at the moment is health. 00:16:28.330 --> 00:16:30.950 It's been such a huge trend since the pandemic. 00:16:31.730 --> 00:16:34.590 We're seeing more research into skin microbiomes 00:16:34.590 --> 00:16:36.960 and how different chemicals can affect affects 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.659 your skin microbiome. So this is actually the 00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:42.080 theme of Organic September campaign this year. 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.200 So it'll be interesting to see if there are any 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:46.179 new studies that are upcoming. I think people 00:16:46.179 --> 00:16:49.580 just want to live well and eat well and sleep 00:16:49.580 --> 00:16:53.320 well and this health does across multiple sectors. 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:55.580 And is there anything that you're particularly 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:57.519 excited about at the moment in the world of kind 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.759 of sustainability, particularly in beauty? I 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:03.340 think there are some really interesting ingredients 00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:07.230 coming through and how people are explaining 00:17:07.230 --> 00:17:09.869 the effectiveness of these ingredients and how 00:17:09.869 --> 00:17:12.490 they compare to kind of more chemical based ingredients 00:17:12.490 --> 00:17:14.470 as a natural alternative is really interesting 00:17:14.470 --> 00:17:17.809 to me. And how do brands kind of differentiate 00:17:17.809 --> 00:17:19.609 themselves? I know there's the certification. 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:23.589 But yes, are there any other ways that they can 00:17:23.589 --> 00:17:26.309 make sure that consumers understand that their 00:17:26.309 --> 00:17:28.609 credentials are authentic when, like we say, 00:17:28.630 --> 00:17:31.069 there's so much sort of greenwashing that goes 00:17:31.069 --> 00:17:34.539 on? Yeah, I mean, I would say don't use the word 00:17:34.539 --> 00:17:38.059 sustainable. If you can't explain what it means, 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:41.420 you have to say, you know, where your ingredients 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:43.759 are sourced from might be what makes your product 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.519 sustainable or who's making the product might 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:50.319 help explain how it's ethical. And yeah, these 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.160 can be used to tell the story of your brand without 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:57.119 these like generic buzzwords. No, for sure. And 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:58.680 you mentioned earlier that there's not really 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.740 any legal definition for things like natural 00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:04.240 and organic. Do you see that changing anytime 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.519 soon? Yeah, I think there's lots of legislation 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:09.839 coming through either from the EU or even in 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:14.119 the UK that's going to help protect consumers 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:16.700 really from misleading claims within the market. 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:19.099 So that could be from the CMA or it could be 00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:22.240 from the Green Claims Code. Yeah, we'd really 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.099 like to see that kind of enforcement to help 00:18:25.099 --> 00:18:28.000 the businesses that are truly sustainable or 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.700 organic to really stand out. And what kinds of 00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:35.180 businesses do you work with normally? Is it mainly 00:18:35.180 --> 00:18:38.759 just startup brands and indie brands or do you 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.440 work with would you say like brands at any stage 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.440 of the business at any size could benefit from 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:48.480 the certification? Yeah, we work with such a 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.799 vast number of businesses and range of businesses. 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.359 We work from ingredient suppliers through to 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:57.339 formulators and manufacturers and all the way 00:18:57.339 --> 00:18:59.220 through to, like you say, brands. They could 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:02.119 be startups, people who make soaps in their kitchens, 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.420 all the way through to big brands like Neil's 00:19:04.420 --> 00:19:07.200 Yard or Pie Skincare. So it's really lovely to 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:08.859 be able to meet all these different types of 00:19:08.859 --> 00:19:11.200 people and businesses. I mean, it's obviously 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:17.740 more difficult for a bigger corporation to suddenly 00:19:17.740 --> 00:19:20.460 adopt a more sustainable ethos if it isn't part 00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:22.799 of their brand DNA to begin with, would you agree? 00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:27.000 I think it can be but I think what often we see 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.660 with the bigger brands that come in is they start 00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:31.519 with one or two products and then they see that 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.819 they're able to say so many great things about 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:36.119 it with the certification that it spreads throughout 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.440 their collections. I mean I think there's an 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.890 argument that people should just consume less 00:19:41.890 --> 00:19:43.549 that it isn't about well this we've launched 00:19:43.549 --> 00:19:46.849 this range and it's organic or it's recyclable 00:19:46.849 --> 00:19:49.710 but uh maybe we should all just be consuming 00:19:49.710 --> 00:19:51.769 less stuff i mean what's what's your take on 00:19:51.769 --> 00:19:55.549 that no i agree i think less but better is always 00:19:55.549 --> 00:19:58.470 the best approach so like you say sometimes the 00:19:58.470 --> 00:20:00.890 certified products may be more more expensive 00:20:00.890 --> 00:20:03.630 but if you're investing in one product rather 00:20:03.630 --> 00:20:06.069 than buying multiple trending products throughout 00:20:06.069 --> 00:20:09.130 your year then you're purchasing better and you're 00:20:09.130 --> 00:20:12.910 supporting healthier planets and better business. 00:20:13.950 --> 00:20:16.029 And then just looking ahead like what trends 00:20:16.029 --> 00:20:20.049 do you see sort of shaping the future of sustainability 00:20:20.049 --> 00:20:24.210 and being kind of to the planet and where does 00:20:24.210 --> 00:20:27.069 your brand story fit into all that in your opinion? 00:20:27.470 --> 00:20:30.029 I think in the beauty space, we're seeing a lot 00:20:30.029 --> 00:20:33.029 of kind of younger generations being targeted 00:20:33.029 --> 00:20:36.009 with beauty products, which is interesting when 00:20:36.009 --> 00:20:38.369 we're also seeing that it's a lot of younger 00:20:38.369 --> 00:20:41.430 people and small families that are buying into 00:20:41.430 --> 00:20:43.950 organic. So I'll be interested to see how these 00:20:43.950 --> 00:20:48.329 kind of trending companies and ones looking at 00:20:48.329 --> 00:20:51.130 those younger consumers incorporate their organic 00:20:51.130 --> 00:20:54.609 messaging into that. Definitely. Well, Tasha, 00:20:54.670 --> 00:20:57.970 thank you so much for joining me today. A lot 00:20:57.970 --> 00:21:00.130 of really useful insights there that I think 00:21:00.130 --> 00:21:03.250 a lot of brands will benefit from. And I'll include 00:21:03.250 --> 00:21:05.210 the relevant links in the show notes if people 00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:08.809 want to find out more about Soil Association 00:21:08.809 --> 00:21:11.529 and how to get certified. So thank you so much 00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:26.839 for joining me. See you soon. I hope you enjoyed 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.200 that episode. All links will be in the show notes 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.519 and feel free to visit smartbeautycreative .com 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.099 or visit us over on Instagram to find out more 00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:37.220 about what we do. And if you enjoyed listening, 00:21:37.700 --> 00:21:39.460 please don't forget to rate and review Smart 00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:42.019 Beauty on iTunes as it helps people find us. 00:21:42.299 --> 00:21:43.059 See you next time!