Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast.
I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist
and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart
Beauty Creative. We're here to create your brand
voice and craft the story behind it. Hello everyone.
Now when it comes to sustainability, as many
of you know, it can be a real minefield, especially
with greenwashing abounding in our industry.
So today I'm really excited to be speaking to
Tasha Nixon, Partnerships Manager at the Soil
Association. We're talking about what actually
makes a compelling sustainability story and why
getting certification like being Soil Association
certified matters more than ever and we also
look at the practical challenges and particularly
small brand space and when trying to do the right
thing because sustainability isn't cheap, the
importance of being specific with your claims
rather than just those generic vague terms and
also why the word natural doesn't necessarily
mean what you think it does. So let's get into
it. So Tasha thank you so much for joining me
on the podcast. Lovely to have you on as a guest
and to get your get your perspective on the beauty
industry as it relates to the Soil Association.
So yeah thank you so much for your time. Thanks
so much for having me. Oh, you're so welcome.
So from your perspective, what makes a compelling
sustainability story when it comes to the beauty
and wellbeing sector? I think what's really compelling
is tapping into what inspires the concept of
the business to begin with. So keeping true to
the story is really authentic and that will be
compelling to your customers. So there's a brand
that comes to mind, Amina's Natural Skin Care
is one that we work with who uses heritage ingredients
from their home in Jordan. And I think that helps
to engage with their customers. And what is the
best way of communicating organic credentials,
if you're a brand, how can you make it feel sort
of credible and relevant to the consumer? I think
you really need to explain what they mean. So
we did a study that showed 84 % of consumers
say aspects of Cosmos certification is important
to them when buying new beauty and wellbeing
products, but they may not know that Cosmos certification
covers these things like animal testing or sustainably
sourced ingredients. So tell them why it's important
and really explain what the benefits of your
certifications are. And obviously there are a
lot of kind of mistakes that brands sort of tend
to make when it comes to explaining their sustainable,
you know, sustainable ethos. I mean, what are
the main pitfalls in your experience do you see
brands making? I think it's being vague with
your claims so if you're not direct about what
is sustainable or what is ethical, they might
make assumptions about things if you're not direct
enough and then they may be disappointed to find
out that that isn't what they assume to be true.
Definitely and I think With certifications such
as the Soil Association, it gives consumers the
extra peace of mind, doesn't it? When they're
reading about a brand's green credentials, I
think having that kind of stamp of approval really
makes all the difference. Do you think that this
kind of certification is being used to its full
potential at the moment by brands, especially
when it comes to things like storytelling and
marketing? Yeah, I think that's really true.
I think there are some brands that stand out
to do this really well. So Cyra Skin is an example.
Cyra, their owner, regularly promotes her brand
on their Instagram account. And she really explains
the benefits of certification and why it's important
for customers to look for these logos when buying
cosmetics. And there's a lot of kind of... I
guess moving parts when it comes to sustainability
aren't there and there's a lot of in -depth kind
of information that I think brands feel like
they have to go into when talking about their
eco -credentials. How do you think they can balance
that kind of the technical side of explaining
what sustainability is and how they practice
it with the need to kind of have that kind of
customer -friendly, you know, language and tone
of voice? Yeah, sure. It's definitely a balance
of really explaining the benefits of the certification,
but breaking it down in a way that's easy for
consumers to understand. I think most people
with beauty brands will be formulators or even
just owning a beauty brand leaves you with a
lot of technical knowledge that your consumers
might not have. So really breaking it down for
what it means to the customer and how they benefit
from these certifications is really important.
Yeah, and I think kind of explaining it on you
know, so you don't have to explain it all at
once do you I think sort of having Aspects of
it sort of you know, maybe piecemeal fashion
on social media or something like that. So it's
a bit more digestible Yeah, exactly. Do you agree
and Are there any other examples of brands? And
I know you mentioned Cyrus that have kind of
doing this particularly well at the moment Yeah,
I think we work with so many really amazing brands,
so it's hard to pick just one that stands out.
But I think Natural Care is a really good example.
Their owner, Susie, is an avid campaigner and
eco -warrior, and I think they explain and champion
their certifications really well. I think they
also, what works well is they explain the need
for the certification in their products. So you
may have seen in the news recently that there's
been tampons with extremely high pesticide residues
on them. And so Susie and the company will explain
how their various certifications will protect
their consumers from these things. And I guess
with things like sustainability, now people just
expect it, right? They assume that it's part
of a brand's DNA, especially when it comes to
kind of new indie brands. So I guess what I'm
saying is that brands kind of they shouldn't
be positioning it as if to say like, well, aren't
we great because we're sustainable? I mean, what
advice would you give to brands who want to sort
of communicate that without sort of, yeah, overstating
it too much? Yeah, I think overstating or vagueness
is really what causes issues with your consumers.
And you want to be able to build trust with them
and say things that are true and evidence based.
So anything that's open to interpretation or
leads to assumptions, again, it's just you need
to be really clear and direct about what is ethical
and what is sustainable about your business practice
and your products. And I think that there's something
to be said for visual storytelling as well. So
kind of rather than having chunks of texts where
you sort of explain all of your credentials,
would you agree? Yeah, I completely agree. I
think that packaging, for example, is a great
tool for storytelling. You can use more sustainable
options like FSC certified card for something
that's recyclable or glass for something that
can be refilled. And I think that further enforces
your brand sustainability values without. like
you say, tons of text to have to read through.
No, for sure. I mean, do you think there are
any other kind of or do you think there are any
underused sort of consumer touch points where
beauty and well -being brands could be capitalizing
on them a bit more when it comes to talking about
their ethics? Yeah, for me, it's all around ingredient
sourcing because I find that really interesting.
I think knowing where your natural ingredients
are sourced from or if they're organic, how that
organic farming process really impacts the ingredients
is really compelling and engaging for consumers.
And I don't really see it talked about as much
as some of the other sustainability values. No,
definitely, because then, you know, it's all
very well saying it's a natural beauty brand.
But then that has its own implications, doesn't
it? Because natural doesn't always mean sustainable.
Natural isn't a regulated term in cosmetics.
And so without a certification, any brand can
say it's natural when it might not really be.
No, exactly. And do you think it's, you know,
you're saying about like ingredients. Do you
think that's what consumers respond to the most
when it comes to storytelling about sustainability
credentials? Or do you think it's a combination
of things? I really think it's a combination.
We've done some research that shows 64 % of people
really care about animal testing and 47 % really
want natural ingredients. So I think it's a fairly
even split between kind of the ethics and the
sustainability. I mean, people just want to feel
good about the purchases they're making across
a combination of these factors. And of course,
like the soil association, it's really sort of
come on leaps and bounds since it since it started
and it's very well known and respected. I mean,
in your words, how do you think like having that
certification helps brands, particularly beauty
brands, kind of stand out in the beauty space
when words like natural and clean are kind of
banded about quite often? Yeah, and in the beauty
space, particularly unlike in things like food
and drink industry, organic and natural, they're
both words that are used to describe these products,
but they're completely unregulated. So there's
no legal protection for these words without the
certification, which can lead to them holding
very little value amongst all the greenwashing
that's happening. So we have seen a number of
products on the market claiming to be natural
or organic when there's very little evidence.
against the ingredients that they have. So using
the Soil Association and the Cosmos logos really
builds trust with your customers and helps cut
through all the noise in such an ever -growing
market. And of course there are brands that are
kind of trying to be more sustainable but might
not be, might not have all the criteria for like
the Soil Association certification for example.
I mean how would you advise them because they
might be kind of saying well you know we're we're
trying to be more sustainable and we sort of
use sustainable supplies where possible and we're
doing X, Y and Z. I mean do you think that's
kind of a good approach if you haven't got all
of your sustainability credentials solidified
as such yet? Yeah, definitely. I think if you're
really honest and clear about what you are doing
and even if you're admitting what maybe isn't
going so well and what your targets are to improve
them, just communicating that journey with your
customers I think is really compelling for them.
Definitely. And are there any kind of types of
content or campaigns that you think educate consumers
particularly well when it comes to things like
what does certified organic mean and things like
that? Yeah, I mean the big one for us is Organic
September. It's a great campaign for the brands
to join in with because there's already such
a buzz for organics across the month and then
we have Organic Beauty and Wellbeing Week towards
the end of the month. So we've seen some really
successful collaborations with brands across
beauty, clothing and food sectors during Organic
September. With Organic it goes all the way back
to the farming methods and you know keeping the
soils healthy. So it's engaging consumers across
multiple sectors with the same messaging works
really well during that month? No, definitely.
And I think there is a lot of storytelling opportunities
when it comes to what a brand is doing behind
the scenes that often the consumer doesn't often
see. Do you think that brands can lean on that
more and give consumers more of an insight into
what's going on and all of the sustainability
methods that they're putting in place? Yeah,
exactly. I mean, take the customers behind the
scenes with you, show them the ups and downs
of your business and how products are formulated.
I think it's a really great way to engage with
them that's really authentic. I mean, there is
the kind of issue with cost when it comes to
sustainability, because obviously with things
like packaging and suppliers, they're not always
the most cost effective route. And when you're
a small brand, I guess that's a huge concern.
I mean, how do you what's your take on that?
And how do you think brands should approach that?
In your opinion, I think. Yeah, especially for
the smaller brands and the growing brands, it
can be a cost issue to begin with. But I think,
as I said, working on your journey towards your
certification and explaining to your customers
where your goals are and what you're doing so
far and what you're working towards is really
interesting to see. And do you think having collaborations
with creatives and influencers, that can help
kind of reinforce that message too? Yeah, definitely.
I mean, during Organic September, I think a couple
of years ago, we saw a great collaboration with
a organic kidswear brand called Fruge, an organic
food brand called Hero and an organic drinks
brand called Pip Organic, who partnered up with
organic beauty brand Green People. And so they
had this collaboration partnership, which centered
around where Eat Drink Protect was the campaign.
And it took a really holistic view of organic
living and for families. And I think that working
together across the sectors and even working
with other beauty brands is a really great way
to help grow your reach and also have that kind
of collaborative teamwork approach. No, definitely.
And how do you find like the beauty industry?
Because I know that the Soil Association, you
work across a lot of different sectors. I mean,
how do you think the beauty industry is doing
compared to things like food and other sectors
that you work with? Beauty is actually really
strong at the moment. We saw the organic market
grow 11 % last year and the total organic market
grew 8 % so it was outperforming total organic
market as a really established sector. Do you
think there are any kind of missed opportunities
in how organic beauty brands tell their story
today? I think controversially that relying too
heavily on your certification alone is a missed
opportunity. The products still have to be really
great and the messaging will get lost if the
products aren't any good so great products lead
to brand loyalty which is then where you can
tell your story and explain your certifications
to customers that are already loving the product.
Yeah do you think brands maybe like sometimes
start out with a mission that they're going to
be organic but then take their eye off the ball
when it comes to where the product is concerned
and if the product's actually actually any good?
I think there is a risk of that yeah definitely.
And are there any other ways that you as an organization
kind of support the brands that you work with
to help them kind of communicate that certification,
sort of touching on what you just said? Yeah,
exactly. So my role is partnerships manager here,
which means that I support our brands in beauty
and wellbeing and also in textiles. So helping
them communicate their certification, whether
that's through key messaging or engaging with
our campaigns like Organic September that I mentioned,
or we sometimes invite them for panels and events.
So at the moment, we're working with Cosmos to
create some marketing materials that will really
help communicate the key messaging for certification
for these brands. And we recently worked with
our, we have a team of beauty ambassadors that
do some great work for us and in small business
May they worked with some of our smallest certified
brands to kind of spotlight them and help them
grow their reach on our social media pages and
on our Instagram. Amazing so it doesn't stop
with the certification then you're kind of supporting
them at every sort of step of the journey as
well. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm always happy
to hear new ways I can help businesses, what
would be most useful to them. And what kind of
trends are you seeing when it comes to sustainability
and wellbeing? What kind of brand narratives
are consumers being drawn to at the moment? I
think the biggest trend at the moment is health.
It's been such a huge trend since the pandemic.
We're seeing more research into skin microbiomes
and how different chemicals can affect affects
your skin microbiome. So this is actually the
theme of Organic September campaign this year.
So it'll be interesting to see if there are any
new studies that are upcoming. I think people
just want to live well and eat well and sleep
well and this health does across multiple sectors.
And is there anything that you're particularly
excited about at the moment in the world of kind
of sustainability, particularly in beauty? I
think there are some really interesting ingredients
coming through and how people are explaining
the effectiveness of these ingredients and how
they compare to kind of more chemical based ingredients
as a natural alternative is really interesting
to me. And how do brands kind of differentiate
themselves? I know there's the certification.
But yes, are there any other ways that they can
make sure that consumers understand that their
credentials are authentic when, like we say,
there's so much sort of greenwashing that goes
on? Yeah, I mean, I would say don't use the word
sustainable. If you can't explain what it means,
you have to say, you know, where your ingredients
are sourced from might be what makes your product
sustainable or who's making the product might
help explain how it's ethical. And yeah, these
can be used to tell the story of your brand without
these like generic buzzwords. No, for sure. And
you mentioned earlier that there's not really
any legal definition for things like natural
and organic. Do you see that changing anytime
soon? Yeah, I think there's lots of legislation
coming through either from the EU or even in
the UK that's going to help protect consumers
really from misleading claims within the market.
So that could be from the CMA or it could be
from the Green Claims Code. Yeah, we'd really
like to see that kind of enforcement to help
the businesses that are truly sustainable or
organic to really stand out. And what kinds of
businesses do you work with normally? Is it mainly
just startup brands and indie brands or do you
work with would you say like brands at any stage
of the business at any size could benefit from
the certification? Yeah, we work with such a
vast number of businesses and range of businesses.
We work from ingredient suppliers through to
formulators and manufacturers and all the way
through to, like you say, brands. They could
be startups, people who make soaps in their kitchens,
all the way through to big brands like Neil's
Yard or Pie Skincare. So it's really lovely to
be able to meet all these different types of
people and businesses. I mean, it's obviously
more difficult for a bigger corporation to suddenly
adopt a more sustainable ethos if it isn't part
of their brand DNA to begin with, would you agree?
I think it can be but I think what often we see
with the bigger brands that come in is they start
with one or two products and then they see that
they're able to say so many great things about
it with the certification that it spreads throughout
their collections. I mean I think there's an
argument that people should just consume less
that it isn't about well this we've launched
this range and it's organic or it's recyclable
but uh maybe we should all just be consuming
less stuff i mean what's what's your take on
that no i agree i think less but better is always
the best approach so like you say sometimes the
certified products may be more more expensive
but if you're investing in one product rather
than buying multiple trending products throughout
your year then you're purchasing better and you're
supporting healthier planets and better business.
And then just looking ahead like what trends
do you see sort of shaping the future of sustainability
and being kind of to the planet and where does
your brand story fit into all that in your opinion?
I think in the beauty space, we're seeing a lot
of kind of younger generations being targeted
with beauty products, which is interesting when
we're also seeing that it's a lot of younger
people and small families that are buying into
organic. So I'll be interested to see how these
kind of trending companies and ones looking at
those younger consumers incorporate their organic
messaging into that. Definitely. Well, Tasha,
thank you so much for joining me today. A lot
of really useful insights there that I think
a lot of brands will benefit from. And I'll include
the relevant links in the show notes if people
want to find out more about Soil Association
and how to get certified. So thank you so much
for joining me. See you soon. I hope you enjoyed
that episode. All links will be in the show notes
and feel free to visit smartbeautycreative .com
or visit us over on Instagram to find out more
about what we do. And if you enjoyed listening,
please don't forget to rate and review Smart
Beauty on iTunes as it helps people find us.
See you next time!