WEBVTT 00:00:12.559 --> 00:00:15.300 Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast. 00:00:15.859 --> 00:00:18.699 I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist 00:00:18.699 --> 00:00:21.640 and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:24.379 Beauty Creative. We're here to create your brand 00:00:24.379 --> 00:00:31.460 voice and craft the story behind it. I'm truly 00:00:31.460 --> 00:00:34.100 honored to welcome today's guest, Ruby Hammer 00:00:34.100 --> 00:00:37.479 MBE. Needing very little introduction, she is 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:40.380 an industry renowned British Bangladeshi makeup 00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:43.579 artist, entrepreneur and the founder of Colt 00:00:43.579 --> 00:00:46.159 90s brand Ruby and Millie, which she founded 00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:49.240 with Millie Kendall, CEO of the British Beauty 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:53.719 Council. And more recently, Ruby Hammer Beauty, 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:57.289 a capsule collection of beauty essentials. Born 00:00:57.289 --> 00:00:59.850 in Nigeria to Bangladeshi parents, she moved 00:00:59.850 --> 00:01:02.630 to London at the age of 12 and a few years later 00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:05.650 started her career on the shop floor of Harrods 00:01:05.650 --> 00:01:07.769 before becoming an assistant to a leading makeup 00:01:07.769 --> 00:01:10.549 artist and her star continued to rise from there. 00:01:11.049 --> 00:01:14.709 She was awarded an MBE in 2007 for her contributions 00:01:14.709 --> 00:01:18.450 to the cosmetics industry. And as a kid in the 00:01:18.450 --> 00:01:21.890 90s, myself with black hair, glasses and an olive 00:01:21.890 --> 00:01:24.129 complexion, I didn't fit into the conventional 00:01:24.129 --> 00:01:27.250 beauty mold where blonde and white was seen as 00:01:27.250 --> 00:01:29.930 the ideal, and I didn't consider myself pretty 00:01:29.930 --> 00:01:32.829 in comparison, yet Ruby and Millie was my first 00:01:32.829 --> 00:01:34.969 introduction to the glamorous world of beauty, 00:01:35.469 --> 00:01:38.450 and the sleek packaging and branding just mesmerized 00:01:38.450 --> 00:01:41.829 me. It showed me that beauty could be fun, not 00:01:41.829 --> 00:01:44.609 serious and grown up always, but something to 00:01:44.609 --> 00:01:47.409 make you feel good, not just look good. I got 00:01:47.409 --> 00:01:50.500 given a copy of... Ruby and Millie's book face 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:52.480 up for my birthday one year, I think I was about 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:55.519 10 or 11. And it just taught me the basics of 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.819 beauty and just the stunning photography and 00:01:57.819 --> 00:02:01.620 diverse range of models, which wasn't commonplace 00:02:01.620 --> 00:02:04.700 at the time really stood out to me in a sea of 00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:06.819 homogenous beauty ideals. I think this was the 00:02:06.819 --> 00:02:09.840 first time I felt like the world of beauty. truly 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.960 was for everyone and there wasn't just one way 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:14.400 to be pretty. I feel very privileged to have 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:17.740 gotten to know Ruby as a beauty journalist and 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:19.680 interviewing her on my podcast, I feel like my 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.580 career has really come full circle. What I love 00:02:22.580 --> 00:02:24.479 about Ruby is that she has a lot of opinions 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.639 on the industry, which I love and can't wait 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:29.659 to delve into, as well as being very open about 00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:31.599 her personal journey, which I'm really looking 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:34.080 forward to chatting to her about as well. So 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:36.319 without further ado, Ruby, thank you so much 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:38.919 for joining me. Thank you so much, Vera, for 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.240 asking me. It's really great. God, it sounds 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:44.020 quite funny when you hear somebody else relay. 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:47.680 No, definitely. Well, thank you so much for being 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:50.419 on the show. And going back to the very beginning, 00:02:50.740 --> 00:02:54.379 so growing up in Nigeria and later London, I'd 00:02:54.379 --> 00:02:56.520 love to know what your introduction to the beauty 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:58.879 world was like. And did you always imagine that 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.750 one day you would have a career in it? No, not 00:03:01.750 --> 00:03:05.030 at all because my late father was a doctor and 00:03:05.030 --> 00:03:07.909 I always assumed I would follow his profession 00:03:07.909 --> 00:03:11.650 and it was only when we arrived back in this 00:03:11.650 --> 00:03:15.050 country and I now realize when you're doing your 00:03:15.050 --> 00:03:17.469 own levels I don't know what they're called now, 00:03:17.490 --> 00:03:19.750 but at that stage I realize oh my god out of 00:03:19.750 --> 00:03:21.689 all the science subjects the only one I liked 00:03:21.689 --> 00:03:24.750 was biology and I probably don't have the aptitude 00:03:24.750 --> 00:03:27.780 for that vocation you know you can't just imagine 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:31.300 I want to be this you've got to have the skills 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:35.560 and the reins to do that and so then I changed 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:40.219 to social sciences and it didn't mean my education 00:03:40.219 --> 00:03:43.879 stopped it just means the way the focus you know 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:46.879 like that and talking about beauty my mum was 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:49.590 a very young Mum, you know, she had me at 17. 00:03:50.110 --> 00:03:53.490 So that's probably the inspiration for beauty 00:03:53.490 --> 00:03:56.770 and how transformative that power is of how you 00:03:56.770 --> 00:03:58.550 look and you put a face on. You know, she was 00:03:58.550 --> 00:04:02.969 a housewife with three kids by age 21. but she 00:04:02.969 --> 00:04:05.509 was still a very supportive partner to my father. 00:04:06.050 --> 00:04:08.629 So she'd be cooking all day, sweaty and horrible 00:04:08.629 --> 00:04:11.069 in Nigeria. And yet then when it was a cocktail 00:04:11.069 --> 00:04:13.389 party or a dinner party, you know, she would 00:04:13.389 --> 00:04:16.529 change herself with makeup, with hair, with the 00:04:16.529 --> 00:04:19.250 wigs, with this, with that, and different bits 00:04:19.250 --> 00:04:24.649 of what you wear. And it was a very good template 00:04:24.649 --> 00:04:29.680 for me to see how many facets a woman has, you 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:32.180 know, she's a woman, she's a mother, she's a 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:37.319 wife, she's her own personality and beauty is 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:40.439 part of that, you know, there's always all our 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:42.879 appearances are like that, whether it's for women 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.060 or men, you have to shower, you have to be clean, 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:50.500 it's a sign of good health, you know, there's 00:04:50.500 --> 00:04:52.660 a thing when you are suffering mental health 00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:55.569 issues that one of the first things that goes 00:04:55.569 --> 00:04:59.350 is probably your attention to hygiene, personal 00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:01.709 hygiene and things that make you look and feel 00:05:01.709 --> 00:05:07.430 better. So they're not just shallow things. If 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:09.709 you start not brushing your teeth and not having 00:05:09.709 --> 00:05:13.629 a wash and not having, it has bearing on lots 00:05:13.629 --> 00:05:15.870 of things. So I don't like this thing of people 00:05:15.870 --> 00:05:18.410 just think, oh, we're just so engrossed with 00:05:18.410 --> 00:05:21.290 how we look. It's like some shallow, horrible. 00:05:21.420 --> 00:05:25.800 is actually a good sign of taking care of yourself. 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:28.160 One of the first steps towards that before you 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:32.060 get into a aesthetic or a creative, you know, 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.319 what the trend is, what the style is, are you 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.980 living up to that? Is it expensive? Is it mass? 00:05:37.100 --> 00:05:40.879 Is it luxury? Just the basics of having clean 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.319 teeth, clean hair, clean body, not smelling, 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:45.819 you know, your nails are cut or groomed, and 00:05:45.819 --> 00:05:51.019 it's a sign of your... good mental health, your 00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:55.779 physical wellbeing. And that's a start to, you 00:05:55.779 --> 00:05:58.079 know, why do we have care for people who when 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.439 they can't look after themselves when they're 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.660 ill or elderly or whatever, pay a lot of attention 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:08.180 to that, don't we, about having that bit of making 00:06:08.180 --> 00:06:13.240 you look. For sure. So it's very important, it's 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:15.639 very important. It is, it's not necessarily about 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:18.519 vanity. It's kind of, I liken it to making your 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:20.439 bed every morning and keeping your house tidy, 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:22.680 similar to what you were saying. I think everybody's 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:24.699 mental health suffers, you know, their house 00:06:24.699 --> 00:06:28.240 starts to become disarray and things can. And 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:30.759 bring disease, you know, things that you use, 00:06:30.860 --> 00:06:33.120 you know, just the way you dispose of your rubbish. 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:36.420 has a bearing if you don't take care of it you're 00:06:36.420 --> 00:06:39.220 in your home like yes we all get a bit busy and 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:42.160 I'm probably a bit messier than most people. 00:06:42.579 --> 00:06:45.319 I'm scrupulously clean but I'm more I'm a little 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:47.379 bit of a hoarder and things come you know as 00:06:47.379 --> 00:06:50.519 you well know as as a journalist or in beauty 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:53.139 tons of things come to us and we have to address 00:06:53.139 --> 00:06:55.439 it and deal with it and it can't all be dealt 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:59.279 with in that. Exact second and then the way I 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:01.819 give a lot away But I have to also hold on to 00:07:01.819 --> 00:07:03.720 something because it's not relevant right now 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:07.379 But it will be in something later, you know Because 00:07:07.379 --> 00:07:09.920 I'm judging something or I'm gonna talk about 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.800 it or it goes in my kit Not every single thing 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:17.560 gets used every single time No into you, you 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:19.319 know, you have to look at it to think oh my god. 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:22.800 That was so amazing This is appropriate for this 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.220 particular job or shoot or what I'm going to 00:07:26.220 --> 00:07:28.620 talk about now or master class or whatever it 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:33.860 is so yeah stuff arrives through our door and 00:07:33.860 --> 00:07:37.399 it's not just keeping yourself looking okay like 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:40.319 you said it's not just vanity but your environment 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.339 your bed your home your what you put inside your 00:07:44.339 --> 00:07:47.879 body how you think you know sometimes if it's 00:07:47.879 --> 00:07:52.199 just too much just to take a walk away from something 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.600 just to be in nature for five minutes if there's 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:58.519 the park or somewhere you can just sit and breathe 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:03.720 to get your balance back. It's all part of living 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:06.779 this life and sometimes it gets overwhelming 00:08:06.779 --> 00:08:11.199 for all of us, whatever. We're not a three -year 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:14.399 -old that I can just throw a tantrum, deal with 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:18.079 it, cope with it like an adult. So everybody 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.639 needs Different things that helps them cope with 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:25.160 this thing called life, you know couldn't agree 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:27.639 more and I thought yes There probably is a toxic 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.639 element of the beauty industry and people do 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.399 prey on people's insecurities I like to think 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:35.440 that that's not widespread that that's kind of 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:38.620 as a toxic element in life Do you know what I 00:08:38.620 --> 00:08:42.580 mean? Humans are even the best person has moments 00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:44.700 of weakness and has said a harsh word here or 00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:50.559 there or doubt and vice versa, you know, like... 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:52.179 Beauty is just so blatant. I think that's why 00:08:52.179 --> 00:08:54.860 people get up and arms about it. It's just coping. 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.240 It's not just, oh my God, it's just the beauty 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:03.039 industry that carries a toxic crown. It's life. 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:06.299 People in all walks of life, in all professions, 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:11.179 do belittle, troll, you know, gaslight, undermine, 00:09:11.259 --> 00:09:16.070 whatever, or are not... or double -faced, whatever 00:09:16.070 --> 00:09:18.370 they are, for whatever reason. We don't know, 00:09:18.470 --> 00:09:21.950 because that's how it is, isn't it? No, definitely. 00:09:21.990 --> 00:09:23.570 And I was talking to Millie about this when she 00:09:23.570 --> 00:09:26.169 was on the podcast a while back, and there's 00:09:26.169 --> 00:09:27.809 nothing wrong with wanting to look good. It's 00:09:27.809 --> 00:09:30.990 just as long as you don't have to look good in 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:33.789 order to feel good or to feel like you need to 00:09:33.789 --> 00:09:36.090 meet a certain standard. Do you know what I mean? 00:09:36.289 --> 00:09:37.870 I mean, it's all about body image, isn't it? 00:09:39.529 --> 00:09:41.769 Look a certain way because somebody tells you 00:09:41.769 --> 00:09:44.220 that that's how you're supposed to be. or, you 00:09:44.220 --> 00:09:47.279 know, I don't dictate to anybody. I never have 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:49.620 done, even in my work and things, I've followed 00:09:49.620 --> 00:09:53.940 trends, I've set trends, but I feel, in the end, 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:56.480 everybody, it should be their interpretation 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:58.980 of what it is that suits and works for them. 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:01.139 You know, I don't like being dictated to that 00:10:01.139 --> 00:10:03.820 way. Oh, you're 63 years old, so you shouldn't 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:06.299 wear denim shorts. or you can't wear this or 00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:08.779 you can't wear that. The only thing is I can't 00:10:08.779 --> 00:10:11.360 see properly to do a liquid eyeliner the way 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.899 I can do it on somebody else. I don't execute 00:10:13.899 --> 00:10:17.840 it as well on me, even with my skills. So I've 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:19.779 made peace with it that when I can do a little 00:10:19.779 --> 00:10:22.519 flip, I'll do it if I'm feeling steady or not, 00:10:22.539 --> 00:10:25.860 and I've got the time. And when I don't, I don't 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:29.039 have to do it, even though it's a product that's 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.039 in my range at the minute. You know, like it's 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:35.769 just this. having to, the pressure of having 00:10:35.769 --> 00:10:39.110 to, I think it's quite liberating to be able 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:44.110 to make peace with it, come to terms with aging 00:10:44.110 --> 00:10:47.070 or beauty or knowing these are the features you've 00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:49.730 been blessed with, and it is a blessing. Exactly, 00:10:49.850 --> 00:10:51.570 I actually feel, I don't know about you, but 00:10:51.570 --> 00:10:53.990 the older I get, the better I feel about myself. 00:10:56.230 --> 00:10:58.669 So I think, all right, my eyes are never going 00:10:58.669 --> 00:11:03.029 to be this big and huge or I'm losing my hair 00:11:03.029 --> 00:11:06.830 now, so it'll never be that lush thing that people 00:11:06.830 --> 00:11:10.090 look at as South Asian beauties. You're going 00:11:10.090 --> 00:11:12.309 to have this thick curtain of hair. You've got 00:11:12.309 --> 00:11:14.629 more hair than I have. And you know what? You 00:11:14.629 --> 00:11:17.009 make peace with it and you address it the best 00:11:17.009 --> 00:11:21.629 way. Exactly. Without all your energy just going 00:11:21.629 --> 00:11:25.830 on how you look. 100%. And like I say, I feel 00:11:25.830 --> 00:11:28.529 like it's how you carry yourself, isn't it? And 00:11:28.529 --> 00:11:31.110 just, you know what? Yeah, I might have a less 00:11:31.110 --> 00:11:33.090 collagen than I did in my 20s But I'm alright 00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:34.690 as long as I look good for my age and I don't 00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:37.750 look that good This is that including the man, 00:11:37.870 --> 00:11:41.870 you know, we have it and we lose it progressively 00:11:41.870 --> 00:11:44.730 Progressively and when you know that you lose 00:11:44.730 --> 00:11:46.769 it if there's something you can do about it like 00:11:46.769 --> 00:11:48.669 taking a supplement whether it's a cream whether 00:11:48.669 --> 00:11:53.190 it's a liquid or doing your You know weight training 00:11:53.190 --> 00:11:56.250 or booster next whatever that is, when you know 00:11:56.250 --> 00:11:59.629 the remedy for it and you're inclined to try 00:11:59.629 --> 00:12:03.049 that, then that's great. No, definitely. You 00:12:03.049 --> 00:12:07.629 know, that's all it's about. How do you get through 00:12:07.629 --> 00:12:12.690 this journey of life? And it is unique to you. 00:12:13.629 --> 00:12:16.190 Nobody lives somebody else's journey. We all 00:12:16.190 --> 00:12:18.990 live our own, you know, all eight billion of 00:12:18.990 --> 00:12:21.090 us on the planet right now. I don't know. I think 00:12:21.090 --> 00:12:24.240 that's right. I think we're eight billion. um 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:29.899 but everyone has to kind of sustain and live 00:12:29.899 --> 00:12:33.860 their unique journey you know there are lots 00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:36.320 of things you can learn from each other and lots 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:40.039 of generalities and this works for someone so 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:45.460 but within it no one's journey is 100 % the same 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:48.700 as somebody else's no that's for certain and 00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:50.500 uh that's quite that's quite wonderful in a way 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:53.429 isn't it i mean But in terms of like body image, 00:12:53.490 --> 00:12:55.149 I mean, I've mentioned that I kind of struggled 00:12:55.149 --> 00:12:58.970 with it growing up. Obviously growing up in Nigeria, 00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:01.009 imagine was very different than if you'd grown 00:13:01.009 --> 00:13:03.370 up, spent all your life growing up in London. 00:13:03.649 --> 00:13:05.970 Did you struggle with body image? You know, I 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:09.250 was in a hot country. I was really thin. My father 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:12.169 was tall and thin. I was really thin and I was 00:13:12.169 --> 00:13:14.850 always a bit of a tomboy. So I didn't ever stay 00:13:14.850 --> 00:13:16.929 indoors when you're supposed to do the siesta. 00:13:17.450 --> 00:13:20.149 I would be out there and I was always darker 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:23.289 and skinny and like, you know, like my nickname 00:13:23.289 --> 00:13:26.830 was Mowgli, because I was always this scrap with 00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:30.070 runny hair with scraps on my elbows, knees and 00:13:30.070 --> 00:13:33.230 a bit of that dusty hair. And then when you come 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:35.169 here, it's like the opposite, the temperature 00:13:35.169 --> 00:13:38.970 is extremely cold and luckily my school, I went 00:13:38.970 --> 00:13:41.769 to a comprehensive, didn't have a, you know, 00:13:41.769 --> 00:13:44.230 it wasn't, you didn't have to have compulsory 00:13:44.230 --> 00:13:47.960 school uniform. So I wore my own things so I've 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:51.259 expressed myself fashion -wise from from going 00:13:51.259 --> 00:13:55.240 to school um and we were allowed to wear makeup 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.759 as well so when I was allowed to wear it from 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:02.539 14 15 you know I did it I experimented wildly 00:14:02.539 --> 00:14:06.179 before I became a professional at it and then 00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:08.500 that's I reduced wearing it because it was like 00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:11.899 more about just being clean and comfortable and 00:14:11.899 --> 00:14:14.779 wearing your layers but it wasn't about how I 00:14:14.779 --> 00:14:18.059 looked but making my subject and delivering the 00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:21.120 job whatever that was a fashion show or an editorial 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:25.440 or whether it was say advertising or tv or something 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:27.759 you know there was no social media in those days 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:30.000 it wasn't those kind of things but within it 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.000 there was still I did many different things yeah 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.860 it was it was more about my focus was on who 00:14:37.860 --> 00:14:41.779 I was looking at not about me and yeah I was 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:44.240 able to use those skills to make myself look 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.940 okay and then in the 90s when we became the face 00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.519 of a brand it was important how we looked you 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:53.059 know like you can't be cosmetics of someone and 00:14:53.059 --> 00:14:57.820 not wear a stitch yourself and but having someone 00:14:57.820 --> 00:15:01.379 like Millie who was a direct complete contrast 00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:04.159 to how I was in appearance you know she was blonde 00:15:05.839 --> 00:15:10.159 blue, green, you know, just in coloring and in 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:13.539 manner and personality, everything. But we were 00:15:13.539 --> 00:15:15.679 really good mates and we were business partners 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:20.360 and we had different ways of tackling something. 00:15:21.059 --> 00:15:25.120 But we came to similar conclusions about the 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:28.759 brand and about our perceptions of life. So it's 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:33.370 about keeping yourself open. to receiving info 00:15:33.370 --> 00:15:35.750 and giving your own way out and hopefully somebody 00:15:35.750 --> 00:15:38.710 out there listens to your version as well. Yeah 00:15:38.710 --> 00:15:41.370 so body image wasn't really an issue for you 00:15:41.370 --> 00:15:44.450 would you say? Well it was in some funny way 00:15:44.450 --> 00:15:47.850 because it wasn't a body issue that I was big 00:15:47.850 --> 00:15:50.289 in size but I was really little so everyone would 00:15:50.289 --> 00:15:52.350 keep going on about how skinny you are oh my 00:15:52.350 --> 00:15:54.509 god you're so little you're like a twigler and 00:15:54.509 --> 00:16:00.430 you had all these funny nicknames but my Parents 00:16:00.430 --> 00:16:03.789 never made me feel that that was something, you 00:16:03.789 --> 00:16:06.090 know, as long as you were healthy, you ate well, 00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:11.789 you slept, I was energetic, I played, I... So, 00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:14.769 you know, my father was a doctor, so it was like, 00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:16.509 yeah, he did have loads of people like, look 00:16:16.509 --> 00:16:18.269 at her, is she all right? Like, she's not got 00:16:18.269 --> 00:16:20.629 worms or rickets or something or weird, and then 00:16:20.629 --> 00:16:23.169 they look at you playing, like you say, you've 00:16:23.169 --> 00:16:25.629 got the energy. I wasn't listless and just sitting 00:16:25.629 --> 00:16:29.980 there like a broken kid. and I slept and I ate. 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.580 I had an appetite. I didn't overindulge because 00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:35.720 I just didn't. I wasn't my nature. When I was 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.120 full up, I was full up. That's it. They didn't 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:40.320 force you. You've got to eat what's on your plate. 00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:43.559 But we were taught not to waste food and only 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:45.240 put in your plate what you think you're going 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:50.220 to eat. So I did have issues because people made 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:53.139 me feel like you weren't normal. You were like 00:16:53.139 --> 00:16:57.220 this over -skinny person. And then now, you know 00:16:57.220 --> 00:16:59.600 when you're at the other end of the spectrum 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.779 where I'm in my 60s and you have menopause and 00:17:02.779 --> 00:17:04.480 you have a thickening of the waist and things 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.319 are a little bit it's just not the same as how 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.000 I was my entire life where people would go on 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.240 like I bet you if how I used to look people would 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.099 say oh are you on those are you on Manjaro are 00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:20.000 you taking the jazz and all that and I'd have 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.720 to say no I'm not this is how I am naturally 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.029 thank you There's nothing wrong with how somebody 00:17:26.029 --> 00:17:28.210 chooses to want to live their life, but what 00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:30.829 I'm saying is there is an issue, but you can't 00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:34.190 make somebody feel bad for how they are. No, 00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:36.730 definitely. You know, like that is their DNA. 00:17:37.509 --> 00:17:41.000 You shouldn't do that. And I imagine Because 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.240 you were the first makeup artist of colour to 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:45.759 be regularly featured on British TV. I mean, 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:47.900 imagine it's tough to be the first of anything 00:17:47.900 --> 00:17:50.880 and it can be a lot of emotional weight to carry. 00:17:51.019 --> 00:17:52.819 I mean, how did you navigate that? The truth 00:17:52.819 --> 00:17:56.720 is, I didn't know that that's what I was. It's 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.920 only when you look back with hindsight. I just 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.740 did what I did. I wanted to... be the best in 00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:06.359 my field and in the nation that I was in you 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:08.880 know like if I had because I was already married 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.819 quite young and I was a mother quite young at 00:18:10.819 --> 00:18:14.059 25 I'd had my daughter I've been married and 00:18:14.059 --> 00:18:16.619 I started assisting so it's not like I was at 00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:18.420 the forefront of everything right at the beginning 00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:21.099 no it was a journey I had to work I had to assist 00:18:21.099 --> 00:18:24.599 I had I got good jobs I got a good agent and 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:26.880 then the good jobs kept coming you meet other 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.460 photographers you know like the teams and what 00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:32.980 I did. So it didn't all happen in one day. But 00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:36.079 I just kept pushing my boundary for myself. I 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:38.240 just wanted to be, I didn't want to be known 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.259 as Asian makeup artist. Brand face makeup artist. 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:44.859 I was just a makeup artist doing my best. It 00:18:44.859 --> 00:18:47.279 wasn't even about being British or Bangladeshi 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.460 or African. I was just me doing the best I could 00:18:52.460 --> 00:18:55.640 and pushing the boundary. for myself and it's 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.819 only when I look back now I realize my god having 00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:03.619 that a bit of confidence or just a bit of self 00:19:03.619 --> 00:19:05.700 -respect to just say this is what I want to do 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:08.039 and I wasn't going there on the tailcoats of 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.960 I'm this or I'm that or some some sort of now 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:14.000 I look back and I think god I really was one 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.519 of the first ones down there good I'm glad that 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.980 he busted them the door for other people to come, 00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:23.259 and it gave people, certainly other Asians, that, 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.500 oh my God, there's other jobs that could be had, 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.420 not just an accountant and a lawyer and a doctor. 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.319 It allowed them, they could say to their parents, 00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:36.920 look, this girl has made a living out of this. 00:19:37.059 --> 00:19:40.299 She didn't have to, and I was very, not vocal, 00:19:40.339 --> 00:19:43.589 but I was very open. I've always been transparent 00:19:43.589 --> 00:19:45.529 about what I've been doing. So whether it was 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:47.789 in the press or whether it was in interviews 00:19:47.789 --> 00:19:53.529 or whichever means that was open to me, I discussed 00:19:53.529 --> 00:19:56.549 openly. So there's always, if you go back, I 00:19:56.549 --> 00:19:59.069 never hid my age or what I did or what I didn't. 00:19:59.190 --> 00:20:01.349 But there's also constraints in that I could 00:20:01.349 --> 00:20:04.069 never just go off and be a makeup artist in New 00:20:04.069 --> 00:20:07.549 York or Paris and do all the some... wonderful 00:20:07.549 --> 00:20:09.970 things like someone like Dicando or Val Garland 00:20:09.970 --> 00:20:12.390 or Pat McGrath, you know, they are exceptional 00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:16.230 artists and they were able to go and follow those 00:20:16.230 --> 00:20:19.250 big photographers and not taking away from their 00:20:19.250 --> 00:20:23.650 enormous, God -given creative talents. You know, 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:27.069 I have mine, they have theirs. I probably have 00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:30.089 it in a more commercial way of my creative. It's 00:20:30.089 --> 00:20:32.289 not that I like it, but I have it in a different 00:20:32.289 --> 00:20:35.549 way to how they had it. And I put my family, 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.400 and foremost, and this is where they were based 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:41.599 and this is where I was going to be based and 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.119 work from and do the best I could within this 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.740 and push and excel as far as I could get. But 00:20:48.740 --> 00:20:53.539 no, I don't have 20 million rub covers the way 00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:57.180 Pat has or somebody else has. I don't have that 00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:59.500 10 ,000 couture shows. I've done shows, I've 00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:01.400 done coutures. It's not like I don't know what 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:04.819 they're doing, but everybody has their gift and 00:21:04.819 --> 00:21:11.220 has their Yes. But this way, yes. Unwittingly, 00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:14.519 I did break the things by being on TV, by being 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:18.059 there. Now, it's all about what's on social media, 00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:20.599 who gets seen where. And I'm sure there were 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.000 lots of models who were, you know, women of colour 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:26.099 who were relieved to work with you because you 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:29.079 knew how to work with their skin. Well, it didn't 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.140 exactly throw me, you know, like they could, 00:21:31.220 --> 00:21:32.900 I would always say to them, because a lot of 00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:35.339 them, because of that, would have their own base 00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:40.339 or something, but I always knew I had to be a 00:21:40.339 --> 00:21:42.200 makeup artist so I would have, I didn't know 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:44.279 who I was going to have. It could be someone 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:47.319 so pale, it could be a male. it could be someone 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:49.519 who wore a lot of makeup or didn't wear anything 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.599 or they wanted something natural or they didn't 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:54.799 and they you know they'd have a person of color 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:58.240 or not so I'd have to have it in my kit that's 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:01.980 what a professional makeup artist does so to 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:04.440 me it was quite shocking when they'd go oh okay 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:06.859 there's really one is I was more obsessed about 00:22:06.859 --> 00:22:09.740 hiding you know like things were clean and I 00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:13.319 had this and brushes and I had the tools to remove 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.779 their makeup or add this or add the texture not 00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:19.900 just about the colour, I just took it as given, 00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:24.539 not really. Oh my god, that some people were 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:27.299 like, oh my god, Alicia Love, she'll know how 00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:30.500 to deal with our skin. And sometimes, you know, 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.440 like when I worked with Alec Waite, you know, 00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:35.440 and it was at an Aveda show or something, she 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:41.220 was beautiful skin, pitch, pitch black, but her 00:22:41.220 --> 00:22:44.609 skin didn't need that much. cover art because 00:22:44.609 --> 00:22:47.009 it was quite uniform and I was like, I was never 00:22:47.009 --> 00:22:49.890 one of these artists that put tons of makeup 00:22:49.890 --> 00:22:52.049 on just because you have to be on that thick 00:22:52.049 --> 00:22:54.269 everywhere. So I just did it where she needed, 00:22:54.369 --> 00:22:56.710 where she didn't, she needed blush, we put that 00:22:56.710 --> 00:22:59.769 on, we did her eyes black, put mascara, you know, 00:22:59.789 --> 00:23:03.170 did all that. So it wasn't just covering her 00:23:03.170 --> 00:23:07.549 face with a base that wasn't needed and wasn't 00:23:07.549 --> 00:23:11.789 her color. We allowed her natural beauty and 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:16.490 her coloring. to stand out. So, you know, and 00:23:16.490 --> 00:23:17.990 then there's somebody else, and when you have 00:23:17.990 --> 00:23:20.410 got dark skin, you have got pigmentation. So 00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:22.650 sometimes you do have to colour correct that, 00:23:22.670 --> 00:23:24.869 and you do have to put the concealer on, and 00:23:24.869 --> 00:23:27.450 then to match all that, you do have to put base 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:30.329 elsewhere. So it's always about what's appropriate 00:23:30.329 --> 00:23:33.529 with the face that's in front of you. Are you 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:35.529 excited about the way the beauty industry is 00:23:35.529 --> 00:23:38.150 going in the trend? Some parts of it, I'm excited. 00:23:38.740 --> 00:23:41.299 But some parts of it, I'm overwhelmed, same as 00:23:41.299 --> 00:23:42.980 everybody else, because I'm of a certain age 00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:45.720 and that technological, this snapshot, you know, 00:23:45.819 --> 00:23:48.299 quick, it's not second nature to me. I have to 00:23:48.299 --> 00:23:51.660 pay attention and say, oh, what is it I have 00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:53.579 to do now? You know, like, oh, what is this? 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.859 What is that? So. I'm normal and I don't know 00:23:57.859 --> 00:24:00.799 all the answers, I don't. I have to listen and 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.599 I have to be guided and sometimes I'm very clear 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.019 about what I feel and know and say and sometimes 00:24:08.019 --> 00:24:11.039 I have to be receptive to what's out there. I 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.839 don't know it all, you know, so it is that and 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:18.500 I will adjust and put bits that make sense to 00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:22.150 me and I'm able to afford or... want or willing 00:24:22.150 --> 00:24:24.410 to do that and some things I think oh god that's 00:24:24.410 --> 00:24:26.470 definitely not me I don't think I can do it that 00:24:26.470 --> 00:24:30.789 way you know it's vitally important to do the 00:24:30.789 --> 00:24:33.309 social media bit but I can't do that all day 00:24:33.309 --> 00:24:35.950 and all night because I do have a life and I 00:24:35.950 --> 00:24:38.730 want some boundaries it's the beast that always 00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:41.869 needs to be fed right yeah and yet I do want 00:24:41.869 --> 00:24:44.269 to be I have always had a drive and ambition 00:24:44.269 --> 00:24:48.329 so I will do that but not above and beyond anything 00:24:48.329 --> 00:24:53.589 else you know so No, I'm constantly adjusting 00:24:53.589 --> 00:24:55.849 and manoeuvring and cutting my cloth to what 00:24:55.849 --> 00:24:58.789 fits me at that time. That's really important. 00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:02.210 But I do love the spiritual wellness trend that 00:25:02.210 --> 00:25:05.009 a lot of brands seem to be leaning into now. 00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:07.789 I mean, is that a big part of your life philosophy? 00:25:08.809 --> 00:25:13.789 I've always been. I think it's good because it 00:25:13.789 --> 00:25:15.789 means the more they get into it, more people 00:25:15.789 --> 00:25:19.839 have access to that kind of thinking, to be aware 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:22.779 that it's not just the cosmetic, it's the mind, 00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:28.240 body, soul, spirit, planet, good for our planet 00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.519 and good for ourselves, good for our, not just 00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:34.220 for yourself while you're alive, what legacy 00:25:34.220 --> 00:25:36.720 you're leaving for the next generation, you know, 00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.539 whether it's your own personal children, grandchildren 00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:42.200 or not, but what are you doing as a human being 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:46.900 on the planet as you depart it? because your 00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:49.160 grandparents and the other people that fought 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.119 the world wars or whatever they had left, they 00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:56.839 gave us a legacy. And now we have to, the responsibility 00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:01.480 is ours too. Are we going to live for the future 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:05.839 generation in our own way? So it's good all of 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:11.960 that, anything that bolsters or opens your third 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:16.200 eye or mind to how some something else can be 00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:19.720 perceived or another perspective is nothing but 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:24.140 to be commended. And sometimes by doing that, 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:26.460 yes, it's commercial, yes, it's meant to be money 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:29.519 -making. By all of those people stepping into 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:31.700 the arena, it gives them more choice, doesn't 00:26:31.700 --> 00:26:34.339 it? No, definitely. And I know you love mentoring 00:26:34.339 --> 00:26:36.059 people in the industry. I mean, what are the 00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:38.700 biggest kind of mistakes you see people making 00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:41.519 when they want to launch a brand, in your opinion? 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:45.359 Well, I think I meant to not in a formal way, 00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:48.119 I meant to you talk to someone or somebody asked 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:50.500 you advice or something just to be really honest 00:26:50.500 --> 00:26:52.240 and give them what you feel at that time. That 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.940 is the best way. But I think a lot of something 00:26:56.940 --> 00:26:59.880 now is I think they just think there's a formula 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:03.359 to doing it. There's no formula. No. No real 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.279 formula to doing it because your product is unique 00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:08.680 to you and what made you choose it, how you're 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.940 going to put it in a packaging, which route you're 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:14.779 gonna use to fund it, if you've got the fund 00:27:14.779 --> 00:27:21.099 or not, or whatever. And also people think, so 00:27:21.099 --> 00:27:23.079 the formula, and then they think, oh, if I just 00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:24.859 pick your brains, I'm gonna be able to do it. 00:27:24.940 --> 00:27:28.380 You can't copy what I've just done. You can listen, 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.599 you should listen, you should ask me questions, 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.180 you should do this, and is it appropriate for 00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:37.079 you, is it this, is it that? And also people 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:42.359 forget the amount of effort and energy you have 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:46.059 to give as a founder, as stepping into a commercial 00:27:46.059 --> 00:27:49.539 arena. It's not easy. It's really not easy. People 00:27:49.539 --> 00:27:51.339 are scared to be different, I think. People are 00:27:51.339 --> 00:27:54.220 scared to go against the grain. But that's the 00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:56.519 key to success, isn't it? And you've got to really 00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:01.920 love what you're doing and that product. Otherwise, 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:06.970 even with that, sometimes it fails. Be aware 00:28:06.970 --> 00:28:09.569 that it could all fail. There's no guarantee 00:28:09.569 --> 00:28:13.089 about anything. Listen to everything, but it's 00:28:13.089 --> 00:28:14.970 also not this snap your fingers and everyone 00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:17.210 thinks, oh, it's just all happens. I'll just 00:28:17.210 --> 00:28:20.630 get one viral video and that's it, I'm off. It's 00:28:20.630 --> 00:28:22.970 a business. It's a continuous, you know, like 00:28:22.970 --> 00:28:24.829 you've got to take your hat off to the Estee 00:28:24.829 --> 00:28:27.509 Lauder's and the L 'Oreal's and Chasedo's of 00:28:27.509 --> 00:28:31.990 the world. But yes, they... losing stocks and 00:28:31.990 --> 00:28:33.769 shares and things, but they've been going for 00:28:33.769 --> 00:28:36.250 how many years? Do you know how hard that is? 00:28:36.990 --> 00:28:38.269 It's hard to leave the beauty. Once you're in 00:28:38.269 --> 00:28:39.670 the beauty industry, it's kind of like a cult. 00:28:39.809 --> 00:28:41.809 You don't really... It's hard to leave once you're 00:28:41.809 --> 00:28:44.730 in. Yeah, and everyone has a place in it. They 00:28:44.730 --> 00:28:48.869 do. They really do. You've got a little... And 00:28:48.869 --> 00:28:50.670 don't be so competitive. Oh, I'm not at the top 00:28:50.670 --> 00:28:53.390 end or I'm not there. Everything, naturally, 00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:55.769 there and everything, we have a space in it. 00:28:55.769 --> 00:28:58.109 Everyone has their place in the ecosystem. Yeah, 00:28:58.109 --> 00:28:59.839 it's lovely. That's what's great about it. I 00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:01.440 think it's the antithesis of fashion in a lot 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.880 of ways. It's just not as elitist and it's not 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:06.460 this kind of private. We've always been a more 00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:11.980 warmer industry in that way. I mean, there is 00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:18.259 still fierce competition, but it's not as brutal, 00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:22.000 I would say, as some other industries. Oh, definitely 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.119 not. And what's next to you? You've achieved 00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:27.720 so much. Is there anything left that you... There's 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.460 tons left. There's tons left. Like, look, even 00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:33.920 my brand here now, I really put out a big message 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.700 to say, please, I need to be in some bricks and 00:29:36.700 --> 00:29:39.059 mortar. I'd love to be in Selfridges. I'd love 00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:41.559 to be in Liberties, or Space NK, or Marks and 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:47.779 Spencer, you know, anything. Just somewhere now, 00:29:47.779 --> 00:29:50.920 I think we need to be indoors somewhere. So that's, 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:54.589 I'd love that. But also, it's growing. we've 00:29:54.589 --> 00:29:56.769 got new territories, you know, we're in Canada, 00:29:57.069 --> 00:30:00.210 we're in Norway, we've got distributors here, 00:30:00.490 --> 00:30:04.029 there's still deals to be done and so many doors 00:30:04.029 --> 00:30:07.549 to open and reach out to and get to a customer 00:30:07.549 --> 00:30:09.390 to say, look, it doesn't matter what age you 00:30:09.390 --> 00:30:13.829 are, if you like using this product, it's kind 00:30:13.829 --> 00:30:17.529 of, it is vegan, it is quarter free, it is, I 00:30:17.529 --> 00:30:20.089 don't shout with a megaphone, clean, clean, because 00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:26.970 I do find that a bit. When you talk to an intelligent 00:30:26.970 --> 00:30:31.829 person, you realise there's no uniform criteria 00:30:31.829 --> 00:30:35.029 for that. But some people are so big with a megaphone 00:30:35.029 --> 00:30:37.329 saying that. And I think, yeah, that's right 00:30:37.329 --> 00:30:39.329 for your description of what you are, but it 00:30:39.329 --> 00:30:44.269 changes with the country. It's no standardised 00:30:44.269 --> 00:30:47.819 way. But within it... I do the best I can within 00:30:47.819 --> 00:30:51.359 my brand. Yes, it's kind to the planet and to 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:54.099 myself. It's as sustainable and as recyclable 00:30:54.099 --> 00:30:58.279 as I can afford and manage at this moment. And 00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:02.700 when I can do more, I'll do more. So there's 00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:05.619 so much more to achieve. And it's an ongoing 00:31:05.619 --> 00:31:08.819 thing. It's just going. We're just moving. And 00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:11.480 every day, we're far better than we were two 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:14.740 years ago. And I intend to be far better in two 00:31:14.740 --> 00:31:17.970 years. time ahead of me. And lastly, what would 00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:23.349 you like your legacy to be? I just think, I hope 00:31:23.349 --> 00:31:31.029 people think that just the way I've lived my 00:31:31.029 --> 00:31:39.009 life and navigated my career, you know, resounds 00:31:39.009 --> 00:31:40.950 for somebody, you know, that they can see that, 00:31:40.950 --> 00:31:45.519 that it wasn't just without its difficulties, 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.579 but that I've managed to do it, you know, and 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:52.480 you can do it your way. I don't know any other 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:55.299 way. I only know how to be me. And I do what 00:31:55.299 --> 00:31:59.420 I think is right. And I hope that that has earned 00:31:59.420 --> 00:32:03.519 somebody's respect and affection. And if they 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:11.759 talk about me fondly with that, it's great. Well 00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:14.619 Ruby thank you so much for joining me it's been 00:32:14.619 --> 00:32:16.539 such an honour chatting with you and I think 00:32:16.539 --> 00:32:18.920 if little 10 year old me would have predicted 00:32:18.920 --> 00:32:22.319 it she would have been very chuffed so thank 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:37.819 you so much. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that 00:32:37.819 --> 00:32:39.920 episode. All links will be in the show notes 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.279 and feel free to visit smartbeautycreative .com 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:45.839 or visit us over on Instagram to find out more 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.019 about what we do. And if you enjoyed listening, 00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:50.180 please don't forget to rate and review Smart 00:32:50.180 --> 00:32:52.759 Beauty on iTunes as it helps people find us. 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:53.819 See you next time.