WEBVTT 00:00:12.559 --> 00:00:15.300 Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast. 00:00:15.859 --> 00:00:18.699 I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist 00:00:18.699 --> 00:00:21.640 and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:24.379 Beauty Creative. We're here to create your brand 00:00:24.379 --> 00:00:31.160 voice and craft the story behind it. Welcome 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:33.520 back to smart beauty today. I'm delighted to 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.960 be chatting with Abby cleave. She's an industry 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:41.399 powerhouse managing director of SBC skincare 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:45.500 skin sense and most famously Ultra Sun sun care 00:00:45.500 --> 00:00:49.119 and the latter she has been building for the 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:54.079 last 28 years What started with 300 pounds buying 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.460 telephone directories and cold calling pharmacies 00:00:57.460 --> 00:00:59.539 because this was back in the day when we didn't 00:00:59.539 --> 00:01:02.119 have the internet and she's since grown it into 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:04.840 a brand that is sold internationally and has 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:08.299 featured on qvc and presented by abby herself 00:01:08.299 --> 00:01:11.900 for over two decades so this lady really knows 00:01:11.900 --> 00:01:15.640 her stuff and i can't wait to dive into our chat 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:20.780 with her she what i love about abby is just how 00:01:20.780 --> 00:01:24.180 laid back she is and her leadership style i think 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:28.609 a lot of people associate people in Abby's position 00:01:28.609 --> 00:01:34.010 with a certain kind of ruthlessness or see them 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:36.549 as having a bit of a hard nose edge but I think 00:01:36.549 --> 00:01:39.049 with Abby she's managed to bypass that and I 00:01:39.049 --> 00:01:42.829 think the fact that a lot of her staff have stayed 00:01:42.829 --> 00:01:46.549 with her for over a decade is case in point. 00:01:47.590 --> 00:01:51.310 She just is such a genuinely lovely person and 00:01:51.310 --> 00:01:55.540 so passionate about what she does and she markets 00:01:55.540 --> 00:01:57.939 her products and speaks to her customers with 00:01:57.939 --> 00:02:01.640 real integrity, which I think can sadly often 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:05.620 be lacking in today's cut and thrust world of 00:02:05.620 --> 00:02:08.099 beauty marketing. But I feel like Abby has managed 00:02:08.099 --> 00:02:11.419 to successfully circumnavigate all of that and 00:02:11.419 --> 00:02:15.180 has remained unequivocally herself. i think she's 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:16.819 a pretty cool lady. she describes herself as 00:02:16.819 --> 00:02:19.639 a business hippie and like i say has kept some 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:21.960 team members on for nearly three decades. i think 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:23.460 i would like to work with her if i ever wanted 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:26.139 to go back in house. she sounds like the dream 00:02:26.139 --> 00:02:29.020 boss. our conversation talks about maintaining 00:02:29.020 --> 00:02:31.000 that excitement for your business that you had 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:33.620 on day one, turning rejection into opportunity 00:02:33.620 --> 00:02:37.479 and building something that really aligns with 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:39.919 your values which i think abby is such a great 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:42.460 example of. so i hope you enjoy our chat. Abby, 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:45.199 thank you so much for being on the podcast. Lovely 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:47.860 to have you on as a guest. Now, there's a thing 00:02:47.860 --> 00:02:51.139 that I hear often when it comes to relationships 00:02:51.139 --> 00:02:53.620 actually called never stop dating your spouse. 00:02:54.020 --> 00:02:56.419 But I think your business motto kind of resonates 00:02:56.419 --> 00:02:59.280 where you say live every day in business as if 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.340 it's your first, which I feel is similar in a 00:03:01.340 --> 00:03:04.060 business sense. How does that philosophy translate 00:03:04.060 --> 00:03:06.639 when you look back on your career? Well, I think 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.120 that anybody setting out in business, whether 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:11.759 it's slightly accidental, whether it's been planned 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:15.960 for years, you've got such enthusiasm and excitement 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:19.580 and the kind of what if and here we go moment 00:03:19.580 --> 00:03:22.680 in your life. And it's scary, but it's really 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:26.659 exciting. And I think very sadly that as days 00:03:26.659 --> 00:03:29.439 go on and you know, months turn into years, it 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:32.479 can be very easy for it to become quite, to wear 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.400 quite heavy on you. And I really try to have 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.400 in my in my tummy and in my heart and in my brain 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.919 that remembering that excitement that passion 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.620 because on day one in any business you're there 00:03:45.620 --> 00:03:47.599 you've set yourself up you might be you know 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.219 on your your a desk in your bedroom it could 00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:53.259 be anywhere but you're in that mindset and I 00:03:53.259 --> 00:03:55.900 find that's a really great space to start every 00:03:55.900 --> 00:03:59.340 single day because every day in business is quite 00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:01.500 exciting you never quite know what's going to 00:04:01.500 --> 00:04:04.199 happen and who you're going to meet and how that's 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:06.060 going to transpire maybe not in the next week 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:08.659 or two but maybe in months or years to come so 00:04:08.659 --> 00:04:12.080 I genuinely try to hold that moment in my head 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.340 every single day of how exciting it is what we 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:18.079 are doing what is our mission and of course we 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:19.860 have have good days and bad days, we all do. 00:04:20.180 --> 00:04:22.959 But if you start each day in that way, it really 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.459 helps. It helps your mental space. We talk so 00:04:25.459 --> 00:04:28.579 much more now about how we're feeling and how 00:04:28.579 --> 00:04:32.160 we are as people in our work lives. And I realize 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.120 that that's got me through. It's been 28 years 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:37.579 now, and that has got me through. Every single 00:04:37.579 --> 00:04:40.939 one of those days of 28 years is genuinely going, 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:43.560 OK. I love what I do. I love the independence. 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.420 I love the decision making. I love my colleagues 00:04:46.420 --> 00:04:49.160 and working with my teams. So let's remember 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.680 that and just give that even just a literally 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:54.699 a moment of the day to set the rest of the day. 00:04:54.699 --> 00:04:57.379 And it has helped me no end, Viola. You can imagine. 00:04:57.459 --> 00:04:59.160 And as you know, I'm building a business myself 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.480 with Smart Beauty. And I always think, you know, 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:04.079 having been not 28 years like yourself, just 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:07.360 a year. So I've got a long way to go, but I just... 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:08.939 In the early days I was like just I just need 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:11.040 to get to this point and then I'll be stable 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:12.740 and then I just need to you know as long as I 00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:14.839 just get to this point then I'll be okay but 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.420 maybe stability is a bit overrated maybe you 00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:20.060 need that you need things to be slightly up in 00:05:20.060 --> 00:05:22.519 the air to kind of see pathways that you might 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:24.319 not have taken I mean what do you think about 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.899 that? Well I agree you know those those Reebok 00:05:27.899 --> 00:05:30.139 things used for exercise that are wobbly those 00:05:30.139 --> 00:05:31.980 little platforms that people stand on because 00:05:31.980 --> 00:05:34.319 it engages your core and keeps all your muscles 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.949 working it's a bit like that in business. I think 00:05:36.949 --> 00:05:40.689 stability is massively overrated. And, you know, 00:05:40.689 --> 00:05:42.290 we all need to sleep at night, but we'll come 00:05:42.290 --> 00:05:45.009 to that. But I do think that that being able 00:05:45.009 --> 00:05:49.550 to to constantly be pivoting on what is needed 00:05:49.550 --> 00:05:52.829 is really exciting. It keeps your brain working. 00:05:53.029 --> 00:05:56.470 It keeps you engaged and working with your business. 00:05:56.529 --> 00:05:59.189 So I agree with you. And to be honest, if it 00:05:59.189 --> 00:06:00.910 was only stability, you and I would probably 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:03.269 be employed in jobs. You know, that's all we 00:06:03.269 --> 00:06:05.949 were looking for every day to be very predictable. 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.180 and to know, then we would never have taken that 00:06:08.180 --> 00:06:10.500 decision. And I realized there's something about 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:13.240 me and you and countless other people out there 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:17.600 that need, crave, hunger for, get excited by 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.720 that unknown and turning things into this positive 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:25.860 outcome for our businesses and our world. And 00:06:25.860 --> 00:06:29.060 that's not to be discredited. That's a really 00:06:29.060 --> 00:06:31.410 powerful force. It does mean you're going to 00:06:31.410 --> 00:06:33.050 have some rocky roads and you're going to wobble 00:06:33.050 --> 00:06:35.389 and have to rebalance a few times and even get 00:06:35.389 --> 00:06:37.110 off your little wobbly board and get back on 00:06:37.110 --> 00:06:39.689 again. That's all good. That's all part of it. 00:06:39.889 --> 00:06:43.290 But you are engaging all of those sinews and 00:06:43.290 --> 00:06:45.329 muscles that perhaps wouldn't have been engaged 00:06:45.329 --> 00:06:48.529 in a more traditional career path. And people 00:06:48.529 --> 00:06:52.459 talk about to that point. i don't know it's not 00:06:52.459 --> 00:06:54.019 about the hustle you need to get out of hustle 00:06:54.019 --> 00:06:56.579 mode and stop being in survival mode but do you 00:06:56.579 --> 00:06:58.019 think i think there's a middle ground you know 00:06:58.019 --> 00:07:00.399 i think there's a kind of sort of you know getting 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:03.040 slightly uncomfortable without being you know 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.879 having to put out fires every five minutes Absolutely, 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:09.139 it is. I mean, at the very early stages, you 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:11.319 don't see the fires coming, you know, as we both 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:13.879 know, they're, oh, I never knew, you know, I 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:15.980 never knew that because you're not a legal expert, 00:07:16.220 --> 00:07:18.139 an HR expert, a health and safety, you know, 00:07:18.220 --> 00:07:21.439 you're not all of those things on day one. And 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:23.579 you learn as you go. And I think having that 00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:26.360 open mind, open spirit, being ready to wobble 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.459 on your board a bit as new challenges are thrown 00:07:29.459 --> 00:07:32.829 at you. is quite an exciting thing. And I agree 00:07:32.829 --> 00:07:35.230 with you completely. There is a space between 00:07:35.230 --> 00:07:38.290 all out hustle, no sleep, you know, black coffee, 00:07:38.670 --> 00:07:43.050 kind of sort of 80s, 90s feeling of what setting 00:07:43.050 --> 00:07:46.370 up your own businesses and kind of Zen like state, 00:07:46.649 --> 00:07:49.569 you know, somewhere in between there is a scale 00:07:49.569 --> 00:07:51.930 that is more comfortable and more survivable 00:07:51.930 --> 00:07:55.170 and more sustainable. And we need to just keep 00:07:55.170 --> 00:07:58.750 walking between those parts. There are days genuinely 00:07:58.750 --> 00:08:01.430 where I do 22 hour days just because I need to 00:08:01.430 --> 00:08:04.009 and that's what's needed. And then there are 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:06.209 other days when I can be a bit more focused, 00:08:06.389 --> 00:08:09.050 have maybe a shorter day and probably more powerful 00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:13.290 sort of mental day. And it's, I don't dine out 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:16.470 or take any sort of, I don't need to be that 00:08:16.470 --> 00:08:19.970 victim to my business. I think I've managed, 00:08:20.329 --> 00:08:21.910 some of my team actually gave me some feedback 00:08:21.910 --> 00:08:24.689 recently where they've said that I can detach. 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:28.149 at times emotionally, and that's another skill 00:08:28.149 --> 00:08:30.149 that I've learned over the years. That was not 00:08:30.149 --> 00:08:31.850 there at the beginning. At the beginning, everything 00:08:31.850 --> 00:08:34.610 was, you know, on the edge. I was either crying, 00:08:34.710 --> 00:08:37.710 laughing, hysterical or drinking wine, one of 00:08:37.710 --> 00:08:40.570 the above. But now I've managed to find a way 00:08:40.570 --> 00:08:42.970 where I can just step back and be a bit more 00:08:42.970 --> 00:08:45.370 patient. Maybe that's age or experience. I don't 00:08:45.370 --> 00:08:48.590 know, but it means it's really comfortable and 00:08:48.590 --> 00:08:50.730 I probably make better decisions. Yeah, there's 00:08:50.730 --> 00:08:52.710 a lot to be said for that. I think for me, I've 00:08:52.710 --> 00:08:55.149 learnt that, you know, it's just for me. having 00:08:55.149 --> 00:08:57.690 being polite and having manners at all times. 00:08:58.049 --> 00:08:59.769 Well who you're talking to, how they're talking 00:08:59.769 --> 00:09:02.610 to you, but it's just not matching somebody else's 00:09:02.610 --> 00:09:06.009 energy. It's being very kind of polite and respectful 00:09:06.009 --> 00:09:08.490 to everyone. I think that's a way that you can 00:09:08.490 --> 00:09:09.909 detach emotionally and actually put you in a 00:09:09.909 --> 00:09:12.330 more powerful position doesn't it? It does. It 00:09:12.330 --> 00:09:15.210 allows you a little tiny bit of space to think, 00:09:15.370 --> 00:09:18.830 which is a mistake that I certainly had made 00:09:18.830 --> 00:09:21.009 in the early days of not allowing myself that 00:09:21.009 --> 00:09:23.690 time to think and going with sort of all out, 00:09:23.789 --> 00:09:27.590 almost over enthusiasm and over gratitude. And 00:09:27.590 --> 00:09:29.909 that's not to say that I'm sitting here and not 00:09:29.909 --> 00:09:33.350 grateful for people around me and the people 00:09:33.350 --> 00:09:36.730 who influence me. I very much am. But it's just 00:09:36.730 --> 00:09:39.210 having that little breathing space and remembering 00:09:39.210 --> 00:09:42.830 who you are. in that is really important and 00:09:42.830 --> 00:09:45.590 it's really important for consistency which helps 00:09:45.590 --> 00:09:47.909 those around you as you start to whether it's 00:09:47.909 --> 00:09:49.830 you're working with people through a freelance 00:09:49.830 --> 00:09:52.250 model or you start to take on team or whatever 00:09:52.250 --> 00:09:55.870 way that you interact with with colleagues it's 00:09:55.870 --> 00:09:57.970 really important that they feel grounded with 00:09:57.970 --> 00:10:00.549 you as well and quite safe with you and that 00:10:00.549 --> 00:10:04.250 you're you're consistent but to have some really 00:10:04.250 --> 00:10:06.850 surrounded but I think I've got about 100 people 00:10:06.850 --> 00:10:09.809 in the teams and I think there are probably about 00:10:09.809 --> 00:10:13.409 15 who have done more than 18 years with me and 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:16.620 that's Such a blessing, what a joy. You can imagine 00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:18.980 our stories go way back to the crazy days of 00:10:18.980 --> 00:10:22.039 packing on our knees to where we are now. So 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.320 when new people join, they're sort of a bit of 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.559 a gog at that because it's hard with a smaller 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:29.379 company to keep people and make sure there's 00:10:29.379 --> 00:10:31.639 progression and excitement for them and their 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:33.480 career too. Well, it's really interesting you 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:36.960 say that because I saw a TikTok with Emma Greed 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.480 who was chatting to Stephen Bartlett and it was 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.419 just, and I feel like they did her dirty with 00:10:41.419 --> 00:10:43.379 that edit to be honest, but she was saying how, 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:45.820 you know, people that you start with at 10k aren't 00:10:45.820 --> 00:10:48.139 going to get you to 100k and the people that 00:10:48.139 --> 00:10:49.659 you know get you to 100k aren't going to get 00:10:49.659 --> 00:10:52.159 you to a million and I wish I'd made um some 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:54.340 cuts sooner and um you know it could have been 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:56.440 taken completely out of context but you know 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.620 there's no reason why people that you start with 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:00.360 can't stay with you if you're developing them 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:01.940 if you're you know if you're helping them to 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:04.740 grow and you're bringing I figure if I can grow 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:07.840 and develop anyone can because I'm such a klutzer 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.000 thing so I I do think that and obviously some 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:12.720 people have gone and that's been the right thing 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.039 for them to do and you know they've wanted to 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:17.679 go into central London or you know and that is 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:21.320 absolutely brilliant and we've always seen especially 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:24.320 Ultra Sun as very much a nurturing environment 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:26.559 and somewhere where people are quite safe to 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.759 come in maybe learn about the beauty industry 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.440 for the first time maybe learn about the commercial 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:34.940 world for the first time and some as I say have 00:11:34.940 --> 00:11:37.139 stayed and some have moved on to other roles 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:39.669 I'm really lucky a lot have stayed in touch. 00:11:39.710 --> 00:11:43.110 So we have a great alumni sort of group as well. 00:11:43.590 --> 00:11:46.210 And we're so proud of some of those people and 00:11:46.210 --> 00:11:48.210 what they've gone on to achieve when they maybe 00:11:48.210 --> 00:11:51.190 started with us at 20 years old or returning 00:11:51.190 --> 00:11:54.110 to work after a family break and not really knowing 00:11:54.110 --> 00:11:57.269 where they where they wanted to fit in. So that's 00:11:57.269 --> 00:11:59.950 that I'm again, I take pride in I take pride 00:11:59.950 --> 00:12:01.830 in everything. Everyone else's success. I'll 00:12:01.830 --> 00:12:04.450 just own that as well. Good on me. So apologies, 00:12:04.789 --> 00:12:06.570 everyone else, your careers that I'm owning. 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:09.750 But that is true. I can understand where she 00:12:09.750 --> 00:12:13.470 was coming from, but I expect it was probably 00:12:13.470 --> 00:12:15.490 maybe a little out of context because it does 00:12:15.490 --> 00:12:19.100 sound very... sort of cutthroat and also it's 00:12:19.100 --> 00:12:21.580 about what you enjoy look some people were cut 00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:25.759 out to be in business and be constantly on the 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:27.340 next page when are we getting to the million 00:12:27.340 --> 00:12:29.059 when are we getting to the five million blah 00:12:29.059 --> 00:12:31.320 blah blah i have to be really honest and this 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:33.919 may not go down really well with everyone so 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:36.500 i apologize in advance that's not me that's not 00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:41.299 who i am and i would be very unhappy trying to 00:12:41.299 --> 00:12:46.600 be that um it's just not my comfort that we are 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:48.100 told like with shows like the apprentice like 00:12:48.100 --> 00:12:49.879 oh it's dog eat dog and you've got a back stab 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:54.179 and you've got OK, off you go. You do you. But 00:12:54.179 --> 00:12:58.679 I describe myself as a business hippie. And you 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:01.159 remember, I was brought up in the 70s, and my 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.480 mum was a massive hippie. And that's how, you 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.480 know, it's a really great, flat, playing field 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:10.080 way of working and listening. And I think we're 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:11.960 waking up to it more. I think we're seeing more, 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:14.639 whether it's LinkedIn or Vipercast. The more 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:16.620 I've gone into entrepreneurship, the more hippie 00:13:16.620 --> 00:13:19.980 I've become, the more witty I've become. Absolutely. 00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:23.100 And it's a joy. It's a real joy because I can 00:13:23.100 --> 00:13:25.320 let real Abi out and it's lovely. I don't have 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:29.200 to be in corporate clothes. There are times where 00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:31.100 I have to dress accordingly and get dressed even, 00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:33.860 but there are times and you know, I go on TV 00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:37.220 a lot and obviously I need to be the right version 00:13:37.220 --> 00:13:39.960 of Abi that people will see. But what I love 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:44.500 is my business environment feels like my home. 00:13:44.779 --> 00:13:47.299 I'm very, very comfortable here. It means I can... 00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:49.539 think more clearly, I can make better decisions, 00:13:49.580 --> 00:13:54.440 I can be more honest. And I can, my team will 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.740 sometimes push me on things, I think, oh, I don't 00:13:56.740 --> 00:13:59.039 know if that's for us, or we can, can we do that? 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:01.200 And they'll be like, yeah, we can, hell yeah. 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.799 And I enjoy that level of vulnerability that 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:10.200 I can show both to my colleagues, but also to 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:14.179 our customers, because I am, this is what we 00:14:14.179 --> 00:14:16.929 are, we are. you know our integrity our friendship 00:14:16.929 --> 00:14:20.110 our journey with them for life is really very 00:14:20.110 --> 00:14:22.470 very important to us not just because of numbers 00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:24.850 on a spreadsheet or bottom lines but because 00:14:24.850 --> 00:14:27.289 that's how i roll you know my it's the same in 00:14:27.289 --> 00:14:29.730 my friendships it's i'm ridiculous about my family 00:14:29.730 --> 00:14:31.950 don't get me started on my children because obviously 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:34.029 they're the best people in the world so that's 00:14:34.029 --> 00:14:38.029 how i am so why why leave that to go to work 00:14:38.029 --> 00:14:40.990 why not take some of that in the majority of 00:14:40.990 --> 00:14:43.470 it gives me strength and power and some of it 00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:46.690 probably does Occasionally has helped me back 00:14:46.690 --> 00:14:49.250 or you know But I'm prepared to take that because 00:14:49.250 --> 00:14:51.169 I can look at myself in the mirror and I can 00:14:51.169 --> 00:14:54.149 sleep at night knowing I am the real authentic 00:14:54.149 --> 00:14:57.470 Abby and I'm not trying to build a business to 00:14:57.470 --> 00:15:00.799 sell it on or to you know have loads of titles 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.299 to my name or directorship. That's not what I'm 00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:05.860 about at all. I'm sort of one of the only people, 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:07.620 I think, in the world that saves up for things 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:10.139 at work. We don't have credit. I know we should. 00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:12.179 I know we should. And I know everyone tells me 00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:13.559 often that you should borrow and you should be 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:14.899 doing this and you should be investing. It's 00:15:14.899 --> 00:15:18.220 like, I just like to make sure that everybody's 00:15:18.220 --> 00:15:21.480 safe and secure. And that's my priority. There's 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.139 mortgages to pay here. There's rents to pay. 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:30.350 And that motivates me. a lot more than how I 00:15:30.350 --> 00:15:32.370 might be viewed in the business community. I 00:15:32.370 --> 00:15:35.009 don't mind. I can live with that now. I'm not 00:15:35.009 --> 00:15:38.730 trying to prove anything. And it works. And not 00:15:38.730 --> 00:15:42.350 only does it work, people are happy and fulfilled. 00:15:42.629 --> 00:15:44.970 And maybe that's why they stay. I don't know. 00:15:45.549 --> 00:15:48.129 But I just feel that genuinely, I know I sound 00:15:48.129 --> 00:15:51.240 incredibly like I'm trying to be some sort of 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.100 patron saint of business. I'm really not. It's 00:15:54.100 --> 00:15:56.740 more that that's what makes me happy. So I've 00:15:56.740 --> 00:15:59.360 started a business because it would make me happy. 00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:03.580 And that's my major motivation with hindsight. 00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:05.379 I didn't realize that, but with hindsight, it 00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:09.879 is the freedom, the choice, the control, the 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.559 master of your own destiny. That was really attractive 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:14.879 to me. So I wouldn't want to try and be someone 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.789 else within that business. that has allowed me 00:16:18.789 --> 00:16:21.809 the freedom to be me. No I think having integrity 00:16:21.809 --> 00:16:23.789 and deciding what your values are and sticking 00:16:23.789 --> 00:16:25.809 to them I think is so important and a lot of 00:16:25.809 --> 00:16:28.850 people I'm sorry to say like you know some founders 00:16:28.850 --> 00:16:32.289 they get so kind of focused on the prize that 00:16:32.289 --> 00:16:34.710 they let that integrity slip and they're not 00:16:34.710 --> 00:16:37.090 bad people it's just somehow you know somehow 00:16:37.090 --> 00:16:40.269 it just falls you know it all falls apart um 00:16:40.269 --> 00:16:42.490 in the you know in the stress and the you know 00:16:42.490 --> 00:16:44.230 that that kind of idea that you need to be ruthless 00:16:44.230 --> 00:16:47.409 but your backs to the wall, you know, you have 00:16:47.409 --> 00:16:50.730 a choice. It is tempting to maybe, you know, 00:16:50.830 --> 00:16:53.269 go down a certain avenue that you might not have 00:16:53.269 --> 00:16:56.110 gone down otherwise. And I think that it's sort 00:16:56.110 --> 00:16:58.269 of what does good business look like? And of 00:16:58.269 --> 00:17:02.389 course, it depends. I mean, for a lot of people, 00:17:02.389 --> 00:17:05.750 it's about, you know, profitability and sustainability, 00:17:05.750 --> 00:17:08.029 you know, and how that business is performing, 00:17:08.109 --> 00:17:10.250 what it would look like to outside potential 00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:13.950 investors or buyers or how it would be judged 00:17:13.950 --> 00:17:17.950 by the world. And you need to decide for yourself 00:17:17.950 --> 00:17:21.670 as a leader what, I know it's been over you so 00:17:21.670 --> 00:17:23.910 much, but what does good look like? What really 00:17:23.910 --> 00:17:26.730 is it? Is it profit? And it may be, and you know, 00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:28.470 we need it. Don't get me wrong. We need to still 00:17:28.470 --> 00:17:31.309 be here in two years, five years, 10 years. So 00:17:31.309 --> 00:17:34.309 absolutely it's in there. And I'd be naive to 00:17:34.309 --> 00:17:39.569 say not, but it really is about that sustainable 00:17:39.569 --> 00:17:44.029 growth and the honesty and integrity. And in 00:17:44.029 --> 00:17:46.720 fact, I can honestly say, if anyone is listening 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.440 that is on a pathway to building something with 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:52.839 the possible hope of exiting that at some point, 00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:55.599 let me tell you, having been through that process 00:17:55.599 --> 00:18:00.319 a few times now, integrity and that real growth 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.859 is so much more important because anyone reviewing 00:18:04.859 --> 00:18:08.160 any business can see straight through sort of 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.299 inflated, over rapid growth and development, 00:18:11.619 --> 00:18:16.099 sudden ways of reporting profit and, you know, 00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:19.019 reporting style. So that just don't even go there. 00:18:19.019 --> 00:18:21.299 Don't even worry about it. Get the engine room 00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:24.079 right. Have the, the, you know, and that's what 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:27.619 creates a heritage brand, a brand or a business 00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:29.900 that is going to be attractive in the long run. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.240 So if that is your pathway and your journey that's 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:35.720 absolutely great and there's nothing wrong with 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:38.140 that in any way or I'm not being judgmental in 00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:40.839 any way but I'm saying that actually the way 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.000 to get there a lot quicker is definitely through 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.680 real hard graft integrity owning your space in 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.700 whatever market you're in rather than becoming 00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:52.799 obsessed with hitting certain targets because 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:56.900 we all know that you know you can um inflate 00:18:56.900 --> 00:18:59.339 they call it dressing the bride don't they you 00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:02.539 can inflate and change things but anyone reviewing 00:19:02.539 --> 00:19:04.339 that will we'll see straight through that and 00:19:04.339 --> 00:19:06.380 what they want is what's going on what are the 00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:08.720 nuts and bolts going on under the engine exactly 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:11.599 there aren't any shortcuts to it are there And 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.799 you and I remember a time before the internet 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:16.640 where there was something called The Yellow Pages 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:20.319 for younger listeners. So it was a book that 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.079 I think we got sent it for free or did you have 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.660 to buy it? But that's where you found kind of, 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:26.799 you know, knowledge. That was Google basically 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:29.920 from the internet days. And I love your your 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.369 journey about going back to the beginning where 00:19:33.369 --> 00:19:35.910 you literally, as I understand it, bought the 00:19:35.910 --> 00:19:38.549 entire set of Yellow Pages to call pharmacies 00:19:38.549 --> 00:19:42.150 when you were building ultrasound. I mean, that's 00:19:42.150 --> 00:19:44.609 such a brilliant origin story. Can you sort of 00:19:44.609 --> 00:19:48.269 tell me a bit more about that? Well, I had accidentally... 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:51.400 Started a business and it was I was in I was 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:53.880 at Marks and Spencer's and I was on this high 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:56.299 -flying career And I've been put on an acceleration 00:19:56.299 --> 00:19:58.400 scheme I've done their management training and 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:01.200 I was going all over the place and I I thought 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.660 that I loved what I did But what I was learning 00:20:03.660 --> 00:20:06.140 is I was having to be someone else every day 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:09.220 I was putting on my Brooks blazer and my heels 00:20:09.220 --> 00:20:11.660 and trotting around stores or you know doing 00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:14.839 big presentations about and and don't get me 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:17.589 wrong. I mean, it's it's stamped in my heart 00:20:17.589 --> 00:20:20.549 M &S. I went on the tills when I was a student 00:20:20.549 --> 00:20:23.089 and I loved it there. If you know you know type 00:20:23.089 --> 00:20:25.150 thing and I will forever be grateful. I think 00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:27.450 I was there for about eight years and I did all 00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:30.910 their management. My family ate like kings. Oh 00:20:30.910 --> 00:20:32.650 my goodness it was before they used to discount 00:20:32.650 --> 00:20:34.410 food at the end of life it just all went in the 00:20:34.410 --> 00:20:37.640 staff shop for me. Yeah, we had dinners of smoked 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:42.220 salmon and mashed potatoes. Great. But I found 00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:44.660 Ultrasun by accident, absolutely fell in love 00:20:44.660 --> 00:20:46.759 with the product because it was the first time 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.480 I had tried a sun protection where I didn't burn, 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:51.819 I didn't get prickly heat. I got a little bit 00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:53.680 of a towel. I only had to put it on once. It 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.740 was amazing. And I couldn't get it in the UK, 00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:58.980 as you say. We had no Google. We had no internet. 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:03.019 And this was the mid -90s. And I managed to get 00:21:03.019 --> 00:21:05.619 in touch through international directory inquiries 00:21:05.619 --> 00:21:07.859 with Ultrasun in Switzerland, because that's 00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:09.460 where I'd purchased it. So I knew it was a Swiss 00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:12.740 brand. Anyway, long story short, the guy that 00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:15.980 owned it, the chemist Tazio Tetamanti, the guy 00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:19.440 who made the first formula, has said, look. we've 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.400 only been going for six months because I was 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.759 why isn't it available in the UK I need to buy 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:26.700 this in England and he was coming over to London 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:29.619 for a meeting and he said I'll meet you and randomly 00:21:29.619 --> 00:21:32.200 and again this is before Bumble and stuff like 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:35.119 that and Hinge so meeting a strange guy for a 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.920 coffee in London was was a bit odd but I went 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.599 and met the guy and he was so passionate and 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.569 he said to me you are coming alive in this discussion. 00:21:45.630 --> 00:21:48.990 He was a really amazing man. And he said, I think 00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:51.309 you should stop doing what you're doing. And 00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:53.369 you should work with me. And I will put you through 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:55.710 Swiss skin school. You will learn everything. 00:21:56.190 --> 00:21:58.569 And you set up the business. And it was like, 00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:02.809 okay. And I agreed to it over a coffee. And it 00:22:02.809 --> 00:22:04.950 was like, okay. So I sort of went back and thought, 00:22:05.089 --> 00:22:06.630 my God, did that really happen? And you're absolutely 00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:10.150 right. I then obviously resigned at M &S and 00:22:10.150 --> 00:22:11.829 - You had a family at the time as well, right? 00:22:11.869 --> 00:22:15.180 So that was - It was - It was big. It was big. 00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:18.140 And I was like, OK, this dazzling career that 00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:20.359 everyone was so proud of me, you know, it was 00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:24.500 so bizarre. And I thought, OK, I need to start 00:22:24.500 --> 00:22:26.890 selling Sanskrit. sun cream, how do I do that? 00:22:27.269 --> 00:22:30.089 And very much went down a pharmacy route because 00:22:30.089 --> 00:22:31.809 that's where I'd found Ultrasun in Switzerland, 00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:34.069 in one of those beautiful pharmacy stores, and 00:22:34.069 --> 00:22:37.430 it is quite a pharmaceutical background. It's 00:22:37.430 --> 00:22:41.289 absolutely sort of all about real and efficacious 00:22:41.289 --> 00:22:43.329 product, UVA, UVB. It was before anyone even 00:22:43.329 --> 00:22:45.869 knew what UVA was and we were shouting about 00:22:45.869 --> 00:22:49.650 it. Anyway, so I did, I bought your own Yellow 00:22:49.650 --> 00:22:52.490 Pages, your local one. Came out to you free, 00:22:52.950 --> 00:22:56.009 but I bought it cost me 300 pounds to buy their 00:22:56.009 --> 00:22:58.250 uk and it had a little library of them They all 00:22:58.250 --> 00:23:00.990 sat on a little shelf and I literally started, 00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:04.940 you know in abugaveni and looked up chemists 00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:07.599 because everything was was um ordered by what 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.220 type of business so chemist pharmacy went through 00:23:10.220 --> 00:23:12.960 them all and rang every single pharmacy and if 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:16.400 i sold six bottles to a pharmacist or i would 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.119 get in my little old beetle and drive you know 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.880 straight up the m1 to somewhere and sell six 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:23.960 bottles of sun cream and be over the moon because 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:28.579 i knew once people started using it They appreciate 00:23:28.579 --> 00:23:30.720 everything I'd appreciated how different it was. 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.019 So that's how we started and we grew and grew. 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:35.960 And very soon I had to take someone on to help 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.180 me pack boxes. That was Dan who I mentioned earlier 00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:44.099 is still with me now. And it just began. So started 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:46.900 with pharmacy, went into department store. Department 00:23:46.900 --> 00:23:49.279 stores, the first big one really was John Lewis. 00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:52.119 And that taught me a huge lesson because it was 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.779 all sale or return. And I did this order and 00:23:55.779 --> 00:23:58.180 I went in and I presented and she gave me an 00:23:58.180 --> 00:24:01.900 order, which was for £40 ,000. Now I had the 00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:03.539 biggest order I probably had up till then was 00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:08.579 about £600. So this was absolutely business changing 00:24:08.579 --> 00:24:11.299 overnight. And as I sat on the train, which was 00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:14.420 about half an hour train journey from Victoria 00:24:14.420 --> 00:24:16.880 back down to Surrey, where we are, I looked, 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.220 I was watching my reflection and I was so smart. 00:24:19.339 --> 00:24:23.289 I thought it was in my hand, £40 ,000. The team 00:24:23.289 --> 00:24:24.890 are going to be so proud. Oh my gosh, this is 00:24:24.890 --> 00:24:28.089 amazing, isn't it? And as I started to head south, 00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:30.650 my face dropped and I thought, oh my God, this 00:24:30.650 --> 00:24:33.549 is sale or return. That's about 80 ,000 pounds 00:24:33.549 --> 00:24:36.990 at retail. How on earth am I going to sell 80 00:24:36.990 --> 00:24:39.839 ,000 pounds worth of sun cream this summer? And 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:41.319 I realized, I'm just going to have to get in 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:42.779 store. I'm just going to have to be there every 00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:45.039 weekend. And that's what I did. I spent Saturdays 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.039 and Sundays in every John Lewis and, you know, 00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:51.220 Peter Jones or wherever, and talk to people and 00:24:51.220 --> 00:24:53.039 just talked about sunscreen, what they hated, 00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:55.220 what they loved. Sometimes it was pouring with 00:24:55.220 --> 00:24:56.980 rain and people laughed at me and I got that. 00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.400 I understood where they were coming from. You 00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.079 could go in and just be like a sales rep for 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.140 John Lewis. That's what I was doing. I was just 00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:04.500 talking to people, but do you know, it was amazing 00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:07.299 because a few years later was when we first launched 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:10.220 on QVC, which of course is shopping telly and 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:12.779 you're talking, but you've got no feedback. But 00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:15.500 of course I'd banked all that feedback from those 00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:18.779 amazing John Lewis customers, all the protestations, 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:22.380 everything from, you know, I'm a 60 year old 00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:24.220 bloke. I've never used sunscreen. Why would I 00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:26.839 bother now through to is it okay for my baby? 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:29.579 I'm pregnant through to I've got a darker skin 00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:32.839 tone that I don't need it. All of that was in 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.619 my head. So when I went live on QVC, I almost 00:25:36.619 --> 00:25:38.579 knew what people might be asking in their living 00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:41.059 rooms. Exactly. I think on the shop floor, you 00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:43.019 realise what the customers actually want. That's 00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:45.180 why I feel like shop floor staff are just the 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:48.960 unsung heroes. I could not agree with you more. 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.099 If you've done it, which obviously you have and 00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:56.660 I have, it is hard work. I always think of it 00:25:56.660 --> 00:25:59.660 like theatre. The shutters go up in the morning. 00:26:00.899 --> 00:26:03.660 especially perhaps with stores like M &S, people 00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:05.680 have an expectation of how they will be greeted, 00:26:05.859 --> 00:26:08.779 how they'll be served, what the overall service 00:26:08.779 --> 00:26:11.400 experience will be, and you've got to come up 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.539 with that if you care about your job. Yeah. and 00:26:14.539 --> 00:26:17.279 that was that was what I loved about retail and 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.460 still do and what I was able to carry into the 00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:25.940 business side of it so that not only are we concentrating 00:26:25.940 --> 00:26:28.779 on making amazing product but we are really working 00:26:28.779 --> 00:26:31.900 hard on how our customer whether that's in a 00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:33.980 bricks and mortar store whether that's qvc or 00:26:33.980 --> 00:26:37.779 online however or even on socials however our 00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:42.200 customer is meeting us We are there to give them 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.039 information, not to hard sell, to give them information, 00:26:45.380 --> 00:26:48.019 to support their journey, to support their choices 00:26:48.019 --> 00:26:50.339 and to help them get it right. And it may be, 00:26:50.380 --> 00:26:52.859 I always say this to the team, look, sometimes 00:26:52.859 --> 00:26:54.920 we're giving advice and it may be that it's not 00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:57.240 ultrasound they're choosing, but they want some 00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.680 advice around what to choose for a new baby or 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.740 they've been diagnosed with a recent skin cancer, 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:06.059 you know, and they need help. That's our job. 00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:08.539 Whether they choose us or not. irrelevant. I 00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:10.339 hope they do, of course I do, and I like to think 00:27:10.339 --> 00:27:12.799 they would because of the quality and the efficacy 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:16.759 and all those things. But our job, as much to 00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.680 have our products and make sure they are brilliant, 00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.599 is to also help people make great choices for 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:28.440 them. Definitely. And your mum was also very 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:32.400 entrepreneurial, Wendy, but she at the time was 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.019 told She should find an at -home hobby, I believe, 00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:36.319 that's what she was told when she asked for a 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:38.539 business loan. But she managed to build a successful 00:27:38.539 --> 00:27:41.420 in -flight magazine empire. I mean, did that, 00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:43.519 sort of watching her, did that shape your approach? 00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:46.319 Oh, absolutely. My mum opened a shop when I was 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:48.740 about two and a half. So I was predominantly 00:27:48.740 --> 00:27:51.019 brought up in a shop. Now, it was a doll's house 00:27:51.019 --> 00:27:55.539 shop. So it was, and it was for collectors. So 00:27:55.539 --> 00:27:57.779 those... You were a kid growing up in that. Oh, 00:27:57.779 --> 00:27:59.519 my gosh. I mean, I wasn't allowed to touch anything, 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.579 obviously. I'm probably still not, to be honest, 00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:05.809 because... But it was these lovely... wonderful 00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:08.589 collectors who would, I remember there was a 00:28:08.589 --> 00:28:10.549 violin, everything is done, it's called an inch 00:28:10.549 --> 00:28:12.470 to a foot, because it's in old money, but basically 00:28:12.470 --> 00:28:15.990 on a 1 12th scale. So there was a violin that 00:28:15.990 --> 00:28:18.970 she had all these out workers that worked from 00:28:18.970 --> 00:28:22.609 home. A lot of them were parents at home making 00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:25.049 the stuff she saw. And it was exquisite. There 00:28:25.049 --> 00:28:29.049 was a tiny violin and this gentleman carved them, 00:28:29.049 --> 00:28:31.230 honestly, and they even played. And that was 00:28:31.230 --> 00:28:33.670 a hundred pounds. And I'm talking about 1973 00:28:33.670 --> 00:28:36.970 or something. So a hundred pounds then was crazy 00:28:36.970 --> 00:28:40.589 money. So this was a very expensive hobby for 00:28:40.589 --> 00:28:43.309 people with a lot of money that enjoyed collecting 00:28:43.309 --> 00:28:47.509 and having dolls houses and all of the things 00:28:47.509 --> 00:28:49.829 that went with them. And my mom, there's a couple 00:28:49.829 --> 00:28:51.829 of things. So I grew up basically in the back 00:28:51.829 --> 00:28:54.049 room of her shop. It was, it had no heating, 00:28:54.109 --> 00:28:57.390 it had a little coal fire and it was a tiny little 00:28:57.390 --> 00:29:00.269 shop in Rygate. It was called Polyflinders. And 00:29:00.269 --> 00:29:05.180 I can remember, Somebody came in and was a bit 00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:07.119 snippy about, I can't believe this shop makes 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.359 any money. And my mum told this wonderful story, 00:29:10.700 --> 00:29:12.180 I'm old enough to remember, so I must have been 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.640 about six or seven, where she said, well, actually, 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:17.680 we have coach trips of people that come from 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:21.019 America, purely to come here to, and this place, 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:23.359 do they really? And I remember when mum shut 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:25.160 the door, I said, I didn't know that, Mummy, 00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:28.440 and she went, oh no, we don't. I was totally, 00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:30.859 I said, when are the Americans coming? But within 00:29:30.859 --> 00:29:33.319 a year, we did. So within a year, she thought, 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:34.920 actually, that's a really good idea. And she 00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:37.400 reached out, found Dolls House Societies. Anyway, 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:40.519 so that was when I was very little. Basically, 00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:42.799 it was a shop near a station and British Rail 00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:43.980 were developing and it was going to be knocked 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:46.140 down, blah, blah, blah. So she had to find something 00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:47.680 else. And she realized that it was actually the 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.019 marketing that had... been her success in running 00:29:51.019 --> 00:29:55.079 her shop. So she went into marketing, she threw 00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:58.099 a breakfast launch and I was there, I was taken 00:29:58.099 --> 00:29:59.799 out of school, I think I was about 11 or 12, 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:02.380 to serve smoked salmon and pretend champagne 00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:05.319 to people. And she said to everyone, invite anyone 00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:08.660 you know in business and one lady that she knew, 00:30:08.779 --> 00:30:10.920 I won't disclose any names for obvious reasons 00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.420 in a minute, was having an affair with a pilot 00:30:13.420 --> 00:30:15.619 and she bought the pilot and he was actually 00:30:15.619 --> 00:30:18.960 in charge of In -flight magazine, true story. 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:21.140 And he came to this breakfast launch. It was 00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:23.339 very 80s, big hair, big glasses, shoulder pads. 00:30:23.900 --> 00:30:26.440 And he said, do you do in -flight magazines? 00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:28.559 To which my mom, being my mom, went, yes, we 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.039 do. Having no idea what that meant. He said, 00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:32.579 well, ours is really boring, and we'd like it 00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:36.220 to be a bit more flary. And so anyway, she did 00:30:36.220 --> 00:30:38.519 a draft and a dummy and got freelancers and art 00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:40.559 workers and all sorts of people in. And she won 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:43.019 the contract and she was awarded the contract 00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:45.660 for a year to produce the in -flight magazine 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:48.059 for this very well -known airline of the time. 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:52.900 And she went to the bank and said, right, I need 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:57.299 400 pounds to start up this business. And they 00:30:57.299 --> 00:31:02.599 said, oh. Oh, Wendy. Stick to doll's houses and 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:05.279 stick to all your little hobby stuff and your 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:08.240 at -home business. This is not for you. So she 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.019 went back to the airline and they lent her the 00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:12.259 money themselves. There you go. I mean, it's 00:31:12.259 --> 00:31:14.000 so funny. I still get spoken to like that as 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:16.019 a business entrepreneur in, you know, it's entrepreneur 00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:18.500 in 2025 and it's still like, oh, how's your little 00:31:18.500 --> 00:31:21.339 business going? Yeah, you look like hustle. Even 00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:24.119 now, it's just like, it just, yeah. So that's 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:26.960 I think what's really interesting value is that 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.799 so we are seeing this explosion that I am at 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.059 50s and I know I've got kids in their 20s and 00:31:33.059 --> 00:31:35.799 I know that I am out of touch and thank goodness 00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:37.740 I have children and I can listen because they 00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:40.579 are teaching me better ways of using language 00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:44.480 better ways of of adjusting as we move forward 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.740 as society should and I welcome it enjoy it sometimes 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.579 get a bit lost but I ask and I am taught and 00:31:51.579 --> 00:31:55.380 that's really welcome. And I think that in this 00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:58.160 new world that we live in and as it goes on and 00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:01.200 continues, more and more people will be working 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.380 in different ways to that traditional job, office, 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:11.680 whatever. And how exciting is that? And we will 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:16.759 have to change the way we almost... I hope I 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:19.079 don't, but I'm sure that all of us do to a certain 00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:22.579 extent, that kind of judgment criteria that we 00:32:22.579 --> 00:32:26.339 have based on career or job title or, and that, 00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.460 that, and we're just seeing the real people. 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.960 And again, going back to my business hippie roots, 00:32:31.579 --> 00:32:35.900 that is a joy because I, that is exactly, sometimes 00:32:35.900 --> 00:32:39.500 skills are not always qualified on a piece of 00:32:39.500 --> 00:32:42.220 paper or you know have had the opportunity to 00:32:42.220 --> 00:32:44.440 be proven but when you get someone in a room 00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:46.660 and they are free to be themselves and let their 00:32:46.660 --> 00:32:49.319 inner i don't know it could be their inner administrator 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:51.700 their inner salesperson it doesn't really matter 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:53.859 their inner accountant it doesn't matter what 00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:58.140 but when they are relaxed and free to explore 00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:01.359 that really wonderful things happen Definitely. 00:33:01.660 --> 00:33:03.200 Like from my perspective, like my attention to 00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:05.759 detail is terrible. I'm just not good in any 00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:08.119 admin roles or any kind of, but I'm good at the 00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:10.079 big picture, the big ideas, the striking, you 00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:12.400 know, give me, give me stuff to do around that. 00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:15.380 And I'm just, you know, you're in. So I think 00:33:15.380 --> 00:33:17.240 that's so true. It's like, it's just lean into 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.359 what you enjoy and what, you know, play to your 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:21.480 strengths, as opposed to trying to, which can 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.019 happen with corporate culture, can't it? You're 00:33:23.019 --> 00:33:24.960 trying to dilute yourself and fit this mold. 00:33:25.650 --> 00:33:28.109 Well you're often asked to be a bit of everything 00:33:28.109 --> 00:33:31.369 and yet to be a bit of nothing and fit in and 00:33:31.369 --> 00:33:37.950 not have your own sense of exploring and interest, 00:33:38.529 --> 00:33:40.809 which is why I think it is becoming so much more 00:33:40.809 --> 00:33:44.170 attractive to work more independently or cohesively 00:33:44.170 --> 00:33:47.609 with other independent workers and that is quite 00:33:47.609 --> 00:33:50.490 an exciting time and we can go for little bits 00:33:50.490 --> 00:33:52.450 of the journey, it's a bit sort of where you 00:33:52.450 --> 00:33:54.549 join each other for a bit of the walk and that 00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:56.859 it's in that time and that moment and for that 00:33:56.859 --> 00:33:59.819 project or whatever it is and then you're just 00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:02.099 learning all the time from different people different 00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:04.720 styles and it's great when you're doing that 00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.779 because you can take a bit of what you have enjoyed 00:34:07.779 --> 00:34:11.239 and basically rework it to be your own you know 00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:13.340 steal it and that's great that's what we're all 00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:16.920 doing but you're doing it outside of a framework 00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.659 that can hold people back. No I completely agree 00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:23.639 and I think that entrepreneurship is not for 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.059 everyone but I think it's something that you 00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:27.599 know you don't really get taught much in school 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.440 about it's just like okay so you'll have a job 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:30.820 and that's where you'll stay for the rest of 00:34:30.820 --> 00:34:34.360 your life and I don't know um don't get me started 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:35.980 on the schools and that's another podcast all 00:34:35.980 --> 00:34:39.480 together I think but going back to so you launched 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:43.280 skin sense I believe it was 2016 yes Was that 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.760 always the plan? Because that uses the same Lamela 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.539 technology as the Ultrasun products. Was that 00:34:48.539 --> 00:34:50.900 unique? So it's the Lamela technology that locks 00:34:50.900 --> 00:34:53.099 Ultrasun in and keeps it so sturdy, whether you're 00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:57.000 in the water or perspiring. And I love you for 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.800 the question. No, it was never the plan. Never, 00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:04.059 ever. I never even, I was doing my thing. I was 00:35:04.059 --> 00:35:05.880 in Ultrasun zone, you know, and that's what I 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:10.480 did. More and more, I was starting to consult 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.400 for some other skincare brands, makeup brands, 00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:18.940 be part of the build of new launches. I was very 00:35:18.940 --> 00:35:21.500 involved with probably, I think probably the 00:35:21.500 --> 00:35:23.719 number one selling makeup brand in the UK. But 00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:26.199 anyway, I was very involved in that element and 00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:30.929 the behind the scenes stuff. One day I just thought 00:35:30.929 --> 00:35:33.690 I literally came home from work. I used to wear 00:35:33.690 --> 00:35:36.190 bare minerals foundation You know the sort of 00:35:36.190 --> 00:35:39.329 tap swirly stuff that yes, and it had been great 00:35:39.329 --> 00:35:40.769 But obviously I was getting a bit older and my 00:35:40.769 --> 00:35:42.670 skin was getting drier and I looked in the mirror 00:35:42.670 --> 00:35:44.989 when I came home from work And I looked like 00:35:44.989 --> 00:35:47.309 a tarahawk, which is only a reference You'll 00:35:47.309 --> 00:35:50.369 know if you were born after about before about 00:35:50.369 --> 00:35:53.530 72, but basically all my lines and wrinkles were 00:35:53.530 --> 00:35:56.219 showing us this isn't fair I put my moisturizer 00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:59.179 on my serum on this morning and I thought I looked 00:35:59.179 --> 00:36:01.039 great my skin looked great this morning but now 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.380 it's looking really dry and and you know has 00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:07.719 been beaten by the day and I thought guys so 00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:10.579 annoying because and this was honestly the stupidity 00:36:10.579 --> 00:36:12.860 of the conversation my head so annoying because 00:36:12.860 --> 00:36:14.639 like with ultrasound that can stick in your skin 00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.550 right through the day but with moisturizer And 00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:21.369 it was like, hang on, because moisturiser predominantly 00:36:21.369 --> 00:36:23.730 evaporates quite quickly, like two, three, it 00:36:23.730 --> 00:36:26.190 depends what brand, what you're using, but it 00:36:26.190 --> 00:36:27.849 tends to evaporate quite quickly, especially 00:36:27.849 --> 00:36:29.449 if you're in fresh air or it's summertime or 00:36:29.449 --> 00:36:31.809 you're perspiring. And I was like, hang on a 00:36:31.809 --> 00:36:36.280 minute. Why don't we make hydration, anti -aging, 00:36:36.860 --> 00:36:38.739 you know, use all these ingredients that we love 00:36:38.739 --> 00:36:40.699 in the skincare industry, like hyaluronic acid 00:36:40.699 --> 00:36:43.420 and retinols and peptides, why don't we put them 00:36:43.420 --> 00:36:45.719 into a laminate formulation? So it was a bit 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:47.960 of a, it was literally a light bulb moment. I 00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:49.519 hate to use that phrase, it's so overused, but 00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.639 it really was like, hang on. So I went back to 00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:55.579 the labs and they all went, wow, it'd be so expensive. 00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:57.679 You can't do it. You'll never do it with the 00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:59.900 margins and the retail and... I said, well, can 00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:02.900 we just try and see what we can do and see, test 00:37:02.900 --> 00:37:05.659 it, see how long it lasts? And when we test it, 00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:09.090 we got on the first... On the first product we 00:37:09.090 --> 00:37:12.010 made, we got something like 14 hours guaranteed 00:37:12.010 --> 00:37:15.349 efficacy, and we'd only just begun. And by the 00:37:15.349 --> 00:37:18.469 time we'd finished, we were able to lock in those 00:37:18.469 --> 00:37:21.809 ingredients, test them in vivo on the skin, 24 00:37:21.809 --> 00:37:24.849 hours later, and find that we still had something 00:37:24.849 --> 00:37:28.750 like 94 % of that ingredient still locked into 00:37:28.750 --> 00:37:30.809 the skin, still working for the skin, still being 00:37:30.809 --> 00:37:34.110 ingested. So we were really excited. And before 00:37:34.110 --> 00:37:37.010 I knew it, being me, I was like, right. What 00:37:37.010 --> 00:37:38.829 are we going to do? Let's go. Let's do this. 00:37:39.130 --> 00:37:41.530 So there was lots of trademarking and patenting 00:37:41.530 --> 00:37:43.570 and all of that sort of shenanigans going on. 00:37:43.789 --> 00:37:45.809 And then Skinsense was born and it was always 00:37:45.809 --> 00:37:49.829 going to be this small little brand that would 00:37:49.829 --> 00:37:52.210 sit next to Ultrasun and maybe people that had 00:37:52.210 --> 00:37:54.909 used Ultrasun might skip into SkinSense a little 00:37:54.909 --> 00:37:58.429 bit, but it's grown and grown. So it was not, 00:37:58.730 --> 00:38:00.909 there wasn't really even a proper business plan. 00:38:00.909 --> 00:38:03.550 It was just a thing and that's how it would go. 00:38:03.789 --> 00:38:05.670 But you say like, let's see, I think that's kind 00:38:05.670 --> 00:38:07.590 of, that really stuck out for me because I think 00:38:07.590 --> 00:38:10.329 that's something that, you know, a lot of us 00:38:10.329 --> 00:38:11.769 come up against these people who say, oh no, 00:38:11.849 --> 00:38:13.989 this can't be done or this is too expensive or 00:38:13.989 --> 00:38:16.230 this, that, and especially women. Let's be honest, 00:38:16.269 --> 00:38:18.380 like there's no funding for that. Let's see. 00:38:18.579 --> 00:38:20.139 Let's just see. Like not saying you're wrong, 00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.940 but let's see. And I think that, you know. I 00:38:22.940 --> 00:38:25.539 do have a thing, a little theory. I sometimes 00:38:25.539 --> 00:38:28.679 say, sometimes because we were in a big open 00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.019 plan office here and sometimes I'm on a hurry 00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:33.480 to get into a meeting in a little room or to 00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.320 get out the door and I'll two or three people. 00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:37.739 And what I have this thing is if my feet keep 00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:40.280 moving, I can talk, I can talk and answer questions, 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:42.699 but my feet need to keep moving right now. And 00:38:42.699 --> 00:38:44.780 I'm a bit like that with new projects. It's like, 00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:50.280 okay, you know. I hear your no, but I'm gonna 00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:54.539 raise you and just keep trying. I think one of 00:38:54.539 --> 00:38:56.840 the lessons, I learned a really important lesson 00:38:56.840 --> 00:38:59.360 with Space NK, actually. I'll just be really 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:00.719 honest about it, because I'm not gonna say anything 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.460 mean or bad. When I first presented Ultrasun, 00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:09.400 years ago, it looked a lot more like paint or 00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:13.300 Ron Seal. It was really... didn't look very attractive 00:39:13.300 --> 00:39:15.500 on the shelf. It was a bright blue label. It 00:39:15.500 --> 00:39:19.159 just didn't really look great. It was very pharmaceutical 00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:22.480 and not very attractive. And I took it to Space 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:26.519 NK and one of the buyers from New York was in 00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:29.840 and she actually said to me, over my cold dead 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:32.800 body, will those products ever go into any of 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:35.960 my stores? Americans just shoot from the hip. 00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:40.510 Okay, so I don't really get where you are on 00:39:40.510 --> 00:39:45.510 this. Is that a maybe? And I came back and I 00:39:45.510 --> 00:39:49.750 decided that no was just short for not yet. They 00:39:49.750 --> 00:39:52.710 just hadn't completed the rest. It was noot yet. 00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:55.159 And what we did is when we rebranded, I went 00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:56.860 back to that individual and said, hey, we're 00:39:56.860 --> 00:39:58.659 rebranding. I know you didn't like our previous 00:39:58.659 --> 00:40:01.139 look. Could I get your feedback on these? These 00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:03.860 are a few visuals I'd really, really sort of 00:40:03.860 --> 00:40:07.440 be so grateful if you could just say yes or no. 00:40:07.539 --> 00:40:09.400 And she got engaged and then we became the best 00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:13.019 selling sun care in Space NK. So that was a wonderful 00:40:13.019 --> 00:40:17.630 example of where from absolute hard no, We will 00:40:17.630 --> 00:40:19.730 get there, but we might just need to walk a bit 00:40:19.730 --> 00:40:23.030 of a roundabout path. And honestly, this conversation, 00:40:23.170 --> 00:40:24.809 the time has just flown. Honestly, I can't believe 00:40:24.809 --> 00:40:26.510 we're nearly... Hello, I'm so sorry. I feel I've 00:40:26.510 --> 00:40:28.429 just gone all around the houses. Sorry. No, not 00:40:28.429 --> 00:40:30.829 at all. But I just want to touch on something 00:40:30.829 --> 00:40:32.690 you were saying earlier that, you know, business 00:40:32.690 --> 00:40:36.329 is personal. And I wondered what kind of personal 00:40:36.329 --> 00:40:38.989 mindset challenges you encountered as you were 00:40:38.989 --> 00:40:40.449 kind of building your career and what were the 00:40:40.449 --> 00:40:43.829 biggest lessons in that sense that you could... 00:40:43.869 --> 00:40:47.570 I think from my end look I don't want to say 00:40:47.570 --> 00:40:49.730 imposter syndrome we talk about all the time 00:40:49.730 --> 00:40:51.630 don't we we hear about it all the time I think 00:40:51.630 --> 00:40:53.789 we all have it to a certain extent I don't know 00:40:53.789 --> 00:40:57.420 anyone that doesn't and I think that's quite 00:40:57.420 --> 00:41:00.639 can be quite debilitating and what I tend to 00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:04.800 do is wholeheartedly rely on the people around 00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.340 me to help me and ensure I'm giving that back 00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:11.139 as well and really working with people who might 00:41:11.139 --> 00:41:15.099 feel those insecurities and those you know does 00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:17.480 anyone realize it's just me here you know having 00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:22.550 a go. The other thing is I Look, through our 00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:25.570 journeys, my daughter was very ill for several 00:41:25.570 --> 00:41:29.809 years, and that, I think, heightened my awareness 00:41:29.809 --> 00:41:33.550 to everybody else's wellbeing as well, my team, 00:41:33.730 --> 00:41:37.250 their families, and my customers, genuinely. 00:41:37.730 --> 00:41:39.309 You know, we never know what people are going 00:41:39.309 --> 00:41:41.570 through, and it's so easy just to assume and 00:41:41.570 --> 00:41:45.130 take on face value. And so that mantra, we've 00:41:45.130 --> 00:41:46.989 always had a mantra of wanting to help people, 00:41:47.250 --> 00:41:50.610 but talking about confidence in your skin and 00:41:50.610 --> 00:41:53.360 supporting that message rather than where the 00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:56.199 beauty industry can be a bit bullying and can 00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:58.780 make you feel inadequate. That's something I've 00:41:58.780 --> 00:42:02.099 shied away from also with very young people coming 00:42:02.099 --> 00:42:07.840 into very high sort of strength skincare. I've 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:09.780 probably been a bit vocal in the past that I 00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:13.059 don't personally agree. I don't want young men 00:42:13.059 --> 00:42:17.860 and women or young children feel that they've 00:42:17.860 --> 00:42:20.920 got to step into retinols and, you know, use 00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:24.460 the latest trend. It really worries me and it 00:42:24.460 --> 00:42:28.420 saddens me and I won't market to children. I 00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:31.980 will market SPF for the use on children. Of course 00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:34.559 I will, because that is very, very important 00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:36.300 and key, especially in those early vulnerable 00:42:36.300 --> 00:42:40.900 years of skin health. But I think that for me, 00:42:41.219 --> 00:42:45.380 we are all walking along in our business journey, 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:48.679 potentially dragging a lot of backpacks behind 00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:51.219 us of who we might be caring for, worrying about, 00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:56.659 have lost or, you know, and that means that I've... 00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:59.380 probably welcomed the business hippie in me a 00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:01.320 little bit more than I did 10 years ago. You 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.460 know, she's very welcome in my life now, whereas 00:43:03.460 --> 00:43:06.139 maybe before I felt she might be holding me back 00:43:06.139 --> 00:43:09.539 and making me, you know, you were talking about 00:43:09.539 --> 00:43:12.980 on that podcast that maybe there's people that 00:43:12.980 --> 00:43:15.360 should have been culled at some point, you know, 00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:19.440 earlier in the journey. And maybe I have. felt 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:23.460 that there was a disconnect between what maybe 00:43:23.460 --> 00:43:25.199 I needed and what I should be doing and what 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.800 I felt I wanted and now I've let go of that disconnect 00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:31.599 and I go with what I feel and what is right and 00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:33.789 I really enjoy that. because that's a really 00:43:33.789 --> 00:43:36.429 good basis for all decisions. So as everything 00:43:36.429 --> 00:43:38.789 through my daughter's battle, I've become stronger 00:43:38.789 --> 00:43:43.989 and more resilient and more able to stay in my 00:43:43.989 --> 00:43:46.989 lane and my moment. And so I'm now incredibly 00:43:46.989 --> 00:43:49.989 grateful for that. But, you know, I think it's 00:43:49.989 --> 00:43:52.670 just remembering that people have got other journeys 00:43:52.670 --> 00:43:54.929 in parallel to what you're seeing at the time. 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:57.340 Of course. And I feel like you don't, you can't 00:43:57.340 --> 00:43:58.880 work on your business without working on yourself. 00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:01.260 I think that's something that I've had to learn 00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:04.699 over the years. But thank you so much, Abby, 00:44:04.820 --> 00:44:07.139 for chatting with me. Honestly, I don't know 00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:08.659 where the time has gone, but I could obviously 00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:10.500 just chat to you all day. Oh, bless your heart. 00:44:10.500 --> 00:44:13.380 I'm a busy lady, so I will let you go. Thank 00:44:13.380 --> 00:44:15.679 you so much again. Oh, I've enjoyed it very much. 00:44:15.820 --> 00:44:31.150 Thank you, Rona. I hope you enjoyed that episode. 00:44:31.610 --> 00:44:33.309 All links will be in the show notes and feel 00:44:33.309 --> 00:44:36.730 free to visit smartbeautycreative .com or visit 00:44:36.730 --> 00:44:39.150 us over on Instagram to find out more about what 00:44:39.150 --> 00:44:41.610 we do. And if you enjoyed listening, please don't 00:44:41.610 --> 00:44:44.010 forget to rate and review Smart Beauty on iTunes 00:44:44.010 --> 00:44:46.650 as it helps people find us. See you next time!