Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty Podcast.
I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist
and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart
Beauty Creative. We're here to create your brand
voice and craft the story behind it. Welcome
back. Today I'm speaking with Susie Griffin -Dunn
from Hilden Beauty, an Irish makeup brand that
is revolutionizing how we think about beauty
manufacturing and community building. Now, I
think the reason why there aren't as many indie
makeup brands launching as opposed to skincare
and perfume and haircare is that in terms of
the different products, the categories are so
wildly different. so you know the difference
between a serum and a moisturizer and a face
oil compared to the difference between an eyeliner
pencil an eyeshadow a mascara and foundation
it's just so wildly different and the products
are kind of designed to work in completely different
ways whereas you know a serum or a moisturizer
they they're sort of doing the same job just
a different degrees and intensities whereas you
know the way a mascara works and the way a foundation
works are very different and completely different
ingredient profiles. So as a result you need
to go to different manufacturers because there
are some manufacturers as Suzy explains that
can do some products a lot better than others
and Suzy is somebody that has done her homework
so So yeah, that's what struck me about Suzie
is just her, that commitment to quality, which
I can attest to because having tried her eyeliners,
I'm an eyeliner girl and I've worn eyeliner for
the best part of 30 years. These are just really
gorgeous formulas. So I tried the Spice Pecan
eyeliner that was a collaboration with designer
Hannah Martin and it is stunning. Honestly, it's
not that kind of stark black. pencil that can
look a bit harsh especially if you're in your
later years as I am but it's this beautiful shimmering
like tawny brown and really really lovely but
beyond the quality we look into Suzy's real authentic
approach when it comes to community building
and she's part of the thriving Irish beauty scene
what I love about Cult Irish beauty brands the
founders, you know have this really strong and
connection with their communities and It's produced
some really exciting brands from that region.
So yes, we've got some great insights whether
you're building a beauty brand yourself or Simply
curious about what goes on behind the scenes.
Let's dive in So it's Susie. Thank you so much
for joining me on the podcast. So lovely to be
chatting with you today Thank you so much for
having me, Viola. I'm a big fan of your podcast,
as I said. Thank you. Really appreciate it. What
was the original spark that made you want to
create your own range? Because obviously, I think
it takes so much guts, especially in this market.
So I began actually as a beauty writer. I was
writing beauty reviews for Yeah, for a few years,
and I never really realized that I could kind
of make a living from beauty. I was always a
beauty nut, always mad about makeup. And when
I was writing, I was writing beauty reviews in
as kind of like a sideline to my main job. But
I just as I got to meet more of the kind of founders
and the creative directors of some of the world's
biggest makeup brands, I just got absolutely
obsessed with the product and formulas. And then
when I went on Matleave, I was thinking to myself,
I wonder, would there be a way that I could create
a beauty brand that was able to hold its own?
along with the kind of top shelf luxury brands.
Yeah, I just felt like there was a bit of a bit
of a gap between like the high street kind of
makeup and the top shelf luxury makeup. And there
was no kind of in between kind of mid luxury
brand that was able to guarantee kind of the
same performance as those top shelf brands. So
and also beautiful. packaging, stuff that you
felt good about having in your makeup bag. So
I that was kind of my mission from the very start.
And then as I got more involved and met more
and more manufacturers and started to branch
out into different categories, I decided that
I wanted to kind of push boundaries with our
products and develop products that hadn't been
done before. And that was kind of where our melting
ban formula came from. This was made with a manufacturer
in Korea, and Korea is kind of the home of that
melting balm formula that you'll know from Makeup
by Mario and Tarte. Mac has one as well. This
is a really particular melting gloss, sheer gloss
formula. So I went to Korea and met with these
manufacturers and decided I wanted to make a
balm lipstick hybrid that was kind of like a
melting lipstick. So that was something we did
that was completely unique. And yeah, so this
is something that I've been trying to do more
and more now is to kind of create products and
push boundaries in different formulas. And working
with Korean manufacturers has been amazing because
they're so creative, they're so tenacious, and
they're able to. kind of experiment a little
bit because they're a little bit a lot smaller,
some of the manufacturers as well. So, yeah,
they're able to kind of react and work with me
on new products, which has been so exciting.
So I suppose, yeah, it's a mixture of just always
high performance products. And if something I
create is not the very best in that category
that I've personally ever tried, it won't be
launched. I wouldn't actually be able to sleep
at night. No, nothing better out there. I mean
we were talking a little bit about manufacturers
when we had a quick catch up the other day and
they really we were saying they're really at
the forefront of the kind of latest beauty trends
aren't they I mean people don't really talk about
them that much but it's really looking at what
the manufacturers are doing that's going to change
the you know what the market is and what brands
are doing. I have been, obviously, I have a lot
of good relationships with manufacturers and
I feel like those relationships are key because
they will then let you know about new technologies
or new ingredients that they have that they know
that I'll be excited about because I'm mad, makeup
mad and formula mad and I love anything new or
innovative. But yeah, I think from going to trade
shows, you will see that the manufacturers are
attempting to predict the trends in 18 months
time. They will showcase at the trade shows a
collection that they believe reflects what the
makeup world is going to look like in 18 months
time. And a lot of the beauty buyers that attend
these shows will kind of depend on the manufacturers
to tell them what's trending and what's going
to be the next big thing in makeup. So it's a
kind of a mixture of. watching, obviously, what's
popular now and trends and also then working
with manufacturers. I mean, they're the ones
who are dealing with the big beauty conglomerates
and they're the ones who are being asked what
they're the ones who are getting all the requests.
So they know what the demand is right now. And
they also are able to, I suppose, through experience,
kind of predict where it's going to go next.
So. having really good relationships with a number
of different beauty manufacturers has been really
important for me and for Hilden as well, I think.
And as a smaller founder -led brand, from speaking
to other founders, it can be a bit tricky, that
relationship with the manufacturers, especially
if they're used to dealing with bigger conglomerates.
I mean, what were the main things you learned
about the best ways to get the most out of that
relationship? Yeah, definitely can be. And I
definitely would have... been, I suppose, some
of the biggest manufacturers in the world, you
can feel like you don't get like the same treatment
sometimes that they that, you know, the bigger
beauty brands would get. But because right the
way the beauty industry has shifted, there is
so many founder led brands now. And some of the
top biggest, most expensive manufacturers in
the world have said to me begrudgingly now, they
do have to listen and work with the smaller founder
led brands because they're the ones that are
blowing up and becoming the biggest in the world
in three or four years. So they don't want to
miss the boat on these brands. But obviously
they are not. hugely happy with having to make
smaller quantities for these brands per SKU because
it costs the same price for them to turn on the
machines for L 'Oreal as it does for me. So they
like to remind me about that as well. I work
with a lot of different manufacturers and some
of the really big ones as well are so respectful
of the small beauty brands and give them just
as much time as well. And especially I find in
South Korea, they are obviously they're a lot
quicker at turning around formulas. So they can
they do have the capacity to work with a lot
more brands because they're able to manufacture
a lot faster. So they can take on multiple then
multi -level beauty brands as well. Is that the
reason why you decided to go with a Korean manufacturer
because they were a bit more experimental and
a bit more flexible to work with? So there are
some products that the South Korean manufacturing
is just not as good as they are in Europe. And
I mean, there's no, there's no nice way to put
it. There's some products that you're just not
going to get the same standard. And they have
amazing technology. And both yet. So, for example,
pencils, I would say eyeliners and lip liners.
And Italy, Germany is where you're going to get
the best in that, in that particular category.
And then lipsticks, if you're looking for like
a traditional really good quality lipstick, you'll
see a lot of the bigger, most popular lipsticks
in the world are made initially. I think 60 %
of all the makeup in the world is made initially.
So basically I will try and find a manufacturer
that is a specialist in powders or a specialist
in emulsions or a specialist in lip products
and work with them on that particular category.
And some of the manufacturers also have a brand
library room, which is basically every product
they've ever made. So on display kind of for
you to see. I'll never forget the first time
I got into, I got to visit a brand library and
we were manufacturing products in Italy for two,
we were there for two days and they said, now
everybody leave your phones, put them on the
desk. We're going to walk you upstairs. It was
just amazing. I think I was there for two hours
and I was just like in heaven. i mean do you
think that's why that when you're looking at
a lot of the indie brands a lot of them seem
to be skincare fragrance, not as many, not as
many makeup brands. Do you think that that's
the reason just because of all the different
components of makeup brands? So, you know, like
you saying the pencils or a blusher or, you know,
there's so there's such different formulas that
it requires a bit more legwork. Yeah, maybe because
it is a little bit more complicated with makeup.
I think if you're if you're going to go and find
the very best manufacturer in each for each category.
And it does take a lot more work and it is a
lot more complicated. Yeah, it is more of a headache.
And I do know that some brands do work with one
manufacturer on everything. So some of their
products might be a little bit stronger than
others because they're just for logistical reasons,
working with one manufacturer on everything.
And you probably notice that with some brands
that some of their products are really strong
and some of them are just OK. But I just think
because I'm a small brand. pretty much all the
time when people buy Hilden, they don't know
that it's they don't know anything about me.
They've no allegiance to me. So they need to
they need to fall in love with the product. And
that's why I work with all a lot of different
manufacturers. And that's why I'm so fussy about
who makes each product in our kind of range.
And when it comes to skincare, infused makeup,
like you were mentioning, is that just a given
now? It's not really a selling point. It's just
people expect it. Pretty much. I mean any of
the manufacturers I work with will any of the
products, the samples that when I go to trade
shows now, any of the collections they're presenting,
blushers, powder blushers, highlighters, a lot
of them will, I'd say now 85 % of them will say
and this has hyaluronic acid in it and this has
niacinamide in it. They all kind of seem to have
a skincare element, you know, sprinkled in there
somewhere. So, yeah, I think it is kind of a
given and I think people are kind of used to
it now. But at the same time, you want makeup
that's going to last and that's going to perform
well. So there has to be a little bit of a balance
there between products that are, you know, skincare
focused, but also makeup products that are going
to deliver results and last all day. And you're
not going to have to top up in an hour or, you
know, that kind of thing. And coming to your
collaboration with Hannah Martin, you were saying
earlier before we... started recording that it
had such a great reception. I mean what made
you decide that now was the time to, you know,
that it was the right fit for your brand and
it would be the perfect collaboration? So Hannah
and I worked on last year, this was our second
collaboration, so we worked last year on an eyeliner
for Hilden which was called Spice We Can. And
Hannah was, as I was saying, when I started my
makeup brand, I launched with just two eye pencils
and I sent them to all my favorite makeup artists
who didn't know me from Adam. And they just got
these pencils in the post. So some of the makeup
artists and beauty lovers and editors that I
sent them to immediately noticed that the formula
is exceptional. It's high performance. And Hannah
was one of those. And she just kept picking up
my eyeliners every she has this kind of Sunday
live ritual that everybody tunes into. It's hugely
popular. It's every Sunday morning on our Instagram
page. And she kept picking up my eye pencils
and using them time and time again without knowing
who I was. And she would just say, comment, like,
I just love these eye pencils. I just love how
easy they are to use. They're so high pigmented.
They just blend so easily. So I reached out to
her after about a year of this. I reached out
to her lovely agent, Aoife. And I said, Aoife,
like, is there any chance I could meet Hannah
to say thank you? She has been amazing for my
little brand. And he was like, yep, Hannah would
be delighted to meet you. So I met up with Hannah.
We had lunch. And yeah, we ended up just hitting
it off. She's a makeup nut, just like me. She's
a beauty nut. And we just could talk makeup and
beauty and formulas forever. And at the end,
Hannah just turned around and said like, What
about if we made our own eyeliner? Like, what
about if we made a particular, I have a shade
in mind that I think would be amazing in your
range. So I was like, yeah, absolutely. So we
got to work. We made an eye pencil called Spiced
Pecan, which was our best selling shade is pecan.
So Spiced Pecan is it's like pecan, but with
a shimmer running through it. So. a bronzy shade
and this shade just people just went nuts for
it it sold out and that was last year so after
that then obviously we kept in touch and we were
saying like we would love to bring it back but
add to the collection this time so we've been
working on this for a year now we decided that
we were going to do eyeshadows and I was really
keen to work with this particular South Korean
lab that I already work with and I was like I'd
love to make the eyeshadows with this team Hannah
like What do you think? And Hannah was like,
yeah, absolutely. I went down to Korea. I had
Hannah on FaceTime. And we were originally just
going to do one shade. But then when I was down
there, it's great when you're small. You can
make tweaks like this. Then when I was down there,
I was like, Hannah, I think we should do two
because the formula here is amazing. So we made
two shades together. And Hannah is known for
radiant, kind of illuminous. kind of skin care
and her skin is always gorgeous and glowy so
she was keen to create a kind of a face product
but that wasn't sticky or overly glittery that
would give you that kind of lit from within look
and one that was a universal shade. So that was
how the Sheer Glow Face Gel came about. I worked
with an amazing manufacturer in Italy. For the
first time I've worked with them actually was
on this product and definitely gonna work with
them again because they are like just the team,
the labs, everything. It's like you're literally
stepping into the future. They're so good. So
they worked with us on this face gel and yeah,
so we brought it out. We shot everything in Ireland
and then we launched it just last week and it
has just flown. I don't know how long we'll have
it for because everybody was just ready to shop
when this came out and it's just had an amazing
response. Yeah, it's been great. Oh, huge congratulations
on that. I'm sure like, collaborating with somebody
is an interesting journey, because you're both
kind of strong visionaries. How do you kind of
navigate that relationship? And what are the
main things that you sort of learnt from that?
Is it just mainly your dynamic, if you guys gel,
then it's a goer? Is that kind of the best way
to judge it? Yeah, well, Hannah really understood
the brand, and she was already a fan of the brand.
I was actually already really interested in Hilden's
products and looked forward to using them. So
that's kind of something I would look for in
a lot, because I do get a lot of creators and
makeup artists reaching out. I want to work with
Hilden. I want to make content. And if it's somebody
who's already a fan of the brand and someone
who already is regularly using the brand like
I'd say that's the best way for influencers and
creators to kind of get on board with the brand.
So I knew Hannah was already a fan of the brand
and she's also just like myself, just a really
open book and like what if you thought you get
and very kind of genuine and like an honest,
authentic person. So she was really easy to work
with them that way, as in we just kind of. have,
we're just on WhatsApp all the time and videos
and we're just always trashing out different
formulas. But we both love the same kind of high
performance and stand out makeup formulas. So
we're on the same page in that way. And we have
the same similar taste in a lot of the makeup
that we would both have in our makeup bag anyway.
So it was kind of easy in that way. And yeah,
Hannah is just so easy to work with. She's just
a really easy going person and just another beauty
not like myself who just loves makeup. So yeah,
it was super easy. And I wouldn't have we wouldn't
have come back together and done a second collection
if we didn't have so much fun the first time.
No, for sure. Where is Hannah from? She's British,
right? Hannah's from London. Yeah, she lives
in London. Yeah. So I was going to say like there
are so many like fantastic beauty brands coming
out of Ireland at the moment and like you guys
like love your beauty and a client I actually
worked with a few years ago as a skincare brand,
Skinition, who are just fantastic. I mean, what
do you think is the kind of Irish approach to
beauty and how would you describe the beauty
scene? Irish women love makeup. We absolutely
love our makeup and we're really serious about
our skincare as well. So yeah, I think that in
Ireland there is a little bit of a beauty revolution
happening. And a lot of people are saying that
to me. A lot of editors in the UK are saying
that to me as well, like what's going on with
Ireland. So obviously we have sculpted by Amy,
who we're super proud of. And Amy has kind of
left the door open for some of the smaller beauty
brands and we'll be forever grateful for that.
So Amy is obviously the biggest Irish beauty
brand and she is going global at the moment.
So there is just kind of a real appetite in Ireland
for beauty. The Irish customers are very loyal
to Irish beauty brands. The Irish beauty scene
is so popular. Like we just love our beauty and
makeup. I think Ireland is the number one consumer
of fake tan in Europe as well. We are fake tan
crazy here in Ireland. There's a lot of fake
tan brands. You see like Bare by Vogue, super
popular brand by Vogue Williams. And we're also
yeah, really serious about our skincare, the
likes of Ella and Jo. I'm not sure if you've
heard of them. That's an Irish skincare. I'll
definitely check them out. Yeah, you should.
They're amazing. Charlene and Niamh, they are
just a gorgeous brand by two lovely ladies. So
yeah, I think being authentic and genuine is
something that is really prevalent with Irish
brand founders, but also it's not something that
people that you can fake and people see through
it straight away. So there's no time for anything
else in Ireland. Would you say that's something
that international brands should really bear
in mind when they're launching into Ireland about
that market that authenticity really is key when
speaking to that market? Yeah, and I think that's
why the likes of Caroline Hirons resonates so
well with Ireland because we kind of see her
as one of our own and she's just really good
fun and she's a great personality, really authentic,
which resonates with Irish women a lot and she'll
say like, this isn't, you don't need this product
or you do need this product. So I think Irish
women love Caroline Hirons for that reason. And
we love having genuine recommendations as well.
The Irish women are very educated now on makeup,
and we know good formulas. We're mad for makeup.
I was only saying to someone recently, if a Sephora
ever opened in Ireland, it would be a national
holiday. No one would be in work that day, and
the streets would be filled. Because if you're
in Ireland and you're going to the States on
holiday, you will get a list for Sephora from
your neighbours. We are mad for Sephora. We just
love it. It's in our DNA. It's like the number
one place we'll go to when we go abroad. Yeah,
I think Irish women are just so passionate about
makeup and we can on the makeup world has got
so small now with social media. I mean, it feels
natural to buy a product from Rare Beauty just
as much as it does from sculpted by Amy to us.
Like it's not a huge deal anymore. They're so
accessible, you know, that way. So, yeah, I think.
We and Irish women are very loyal as well to
Irish brands, which has been amazing for little
beauty brands like myself cropping up and has
given us kind of the ability to then spread our
wings a little bit further because we have the
back end of our Irish community, which is amazing.
I think having that community is really key,
isn't it? I think something that I've learned
building a business is you can't work on your
business without working on yourself. I think
it takes a lot of mental resilience. You need
to do a lot of kind of work on yourself, I think.
I mean, have you found that in building the business?
Were there any personal challenges that you encountered
that you were able to move through and overcome?
Oh, yes. Oh, God. I think I've learned more in
the past since I've started this beauty brand
you've just had. It's been an absolute roller
coaster of emotions. Yeah, like there's been,
you know, obviously along the way, like there's
been people I thought were on my side and then
turns out they're not. And like you do get let
down in the industry by that kind of thing. But
it's also been like I think you just have to
work hard and focus on your own personal goals.
because it's an ever changing industry as well.
Like there's always going to be new trends and
there's always going to be new brands and that
kind of thing. But yeah, and also like just day
by day, tipping along and moving it forward day
by day, I think is key as well. And just a little
bit at a time. And like when I first started,
I heard this great quote and it was like, the
braver I am, the luckier I get. So like you say,
I don't think it's about working hard all the
time or putting in the airs it's about being
brave sometimes and just you know take a step
and approaching that manufacturer and go into
that trade show on your own and walking up to
the you know the manufacturers of the of the
brands that you want to work with and just staying
true and you know starting and just putting one
foot in front of the other and just tipping along
day by day. Because eventually all those days
add up and the effort will pay off in the end,
you know? Yeah, it's about doing scary things,
isn't it? And getting out of your comfort zone,
even if it's, you know, having your body is like,
what the hell are you doing? Get out. Which is
fun and exhausting. And it takes all day. But
I mean, it's such a fun business as well. Like,
and that's what I love about it as well. It's
such a creative industry. You know, it's, it's
just something that I've always, I've always
been a makeup nut and to be able to, like, it
was only a year ago, just over a year ago, when
I was able to leave my full time job. and pay
myself more than I was making in my full -time
job to run my beauty brand. So that's something
that I'll never forget. And even my husband will
say to me every day, you're already winning.
You're getting up. You're working on something
that you love every single day. So you've already
won. Don't stress. Do you know that way? And
it's all thanks to our little community that
we've built, which I'll be forever grateful for.
But it's so powerful as well. yeah community
really is key isn't it and I think sometimes
it can feel quite lonely as a founder or an entrepreneur
but I think having that community and having
that little sort of cheerleading squad, I think,
is invaluable because they're kind of, I think
they say, you know, it takes a village to raise
a child, but I think it equally takes a village
to build a business in that sense. I've got to
doors. Yeah, and I do kind of like really depend
on them. And every time they're online all the
time and they're always there to give me their
feedback. And yeah, I do really like appreciate
that it wasn't for them. Obviously, Hilden wouldn't
be here. And yeah, it's just it's just amazing
how when like other women or when, you know,
makeup lovers believe in a brand, they will champion
it. And you can't underestimate that. Like that's
what it's all about. You know, what would be
the ultimate dream for you? You know, I'm actually
not great at these kind of five year plans because
sometimes I get a bit overwhelmed. But I'm going
to use I don't know if we'll be there. And I
don't not one for like vision boards or manifesting.
I'm not really one for that. I'm more kind of
like I just try and put on my blinkers and focus.
So for me, I wouldn't say like, oh, my God, I'll
conquer this market or that market or it's more
just about. the organic natural growth of the
brand, which I think will continue to happen
if I just concentrate on creating beautiful products
and products that people will stop in their tracks
when they watch them and try them. We'll just
keep growing. If we can keep growing at the way
we're growing, I'd be really happy. Yeah, well,
like you say, just been able to get up every
morning and do something you love as a job, I
think is kind of... That's it, isn't it? And
thank you so much, Susie, for speaking to me
today. I really appreciate your time. Congratulations
on what you've built with the brand and look
forward to see where you take it next. Oh, thank
you so much, Viola. I loved our chat today. I
can't wait to listen to more of your podcast.
As you know, I'm a big fan. I hope you enjoyed
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