Hello and welcome to the Smart Beauty podcast.
I'm your host, Viola Levy, beauty journalist
and founder of copy led branding agency, Smart
Beauty Creative. We're here to create your brand
voice and craft the story behind it. Hi everyone,
welcome to today's episode. I'm really excited
to introduce today's guest. Her name is Karen
Gilbert. probably one of the most respected voices
in perfumery education. I really love what she's
doing because she's helping to demystify the
world of fragrance creation. I think the world
of perfumery is becoming much more democratic
and it's less about training for 20 years in
France. Like people that want to start a perfume
brand and don't know where to begin can access
that world and understand how it all works. It's
not shrouded in secrecy and people like Karen
are helping to bring it out of the shadows which
I am all for because I think that perfumery needs,
well it definitely needs to be more diverse and
it needs more fresh voices. I think there's a
kind of Swiss French cultural monopoly on the
world of fragrance quite frankly and I'm really
excited that Karen, people like Karen are helping
to bring it to the masses and get more people
involved. She originally trained as a makeup
artist and then stumbled into the fragrance world
through working for IFF, and that's International
Flavours and Fragrances, a huge fragrance company,
one of the main ones. And she worked for five
years as a fragrance evaluator. So what an evaluator
does, they are the bridge between the client
and the perfumer. So they take the client's brief
and they help the perfumer interpret it, but
they're the ones that are keeping a close eye
and making sure that there is that commercial
angle and that it ticks all the boxes, basically.
So they're able to interpret the client's vision
a lot more effectively, but they also understand
the language of perfume. So they can help the
perfumer realise that vision much more effectively
than if the perfumer were just dealing with the
client. And they have to be up on industry trends
and what's happening in the market. And it's
a really interesting role that very rarely gets
spoken about, like I say, in this kind of shrouded
secret world of perfumery. but it's a fascinating
one. Karen has also authored several books including
Perfume, the Art and Craft of Fragrance and she
hosts a podcast herself, the Perfume Making Podcast,
which I was recently a guest on. There's a lot
of cross -pollination in the podcasting world,
which is brilliant. and I'll include a link to
that episode in the show notes too. She teaches
perfumery worldwide through her artisan perfumery
mastermind program and from her scent studio
where she is based down in the New Forest, really
beautiful part of the country. I would definitely
recommend visiting if you haven't already. There
are actually... horses that just roam around
free which for me as a lifelong Londoner was
just mind -blowing. In our conversation we unpacked
her career journey, debunked a lot of misconceptions
about how fragrances are created, we spoke about
the psychology of scent so if you're fragrance
enthusiast or if you're just curious about the
world of scent I'm sure you will get a lot out
of this chat and hope you enjoy it as much as
I did. Thank you so much for joining me on the
podcast today. It's really lovely to have you
on as a guest. Now you started your career as
an evaluator at IFF and since then you've become
like a renowned educator and author. What was
it that drew you initially to the world of Scent?
Like how did that journey begin? Completely by
accident and it's I suppose a really unusual
way of getting into the industry because most
people that I come into contact with now are
so passionate about fragrance and they desperately
want to get into the industry because they're
so passionate about scent. I literally fell into
it by accident. I was at the London College of
Fashion. I was training as a makeup artist. I
decided that even though I loved the course that
I was doing, I preferred the cosmetic science
side of it, like the lab work, if you like, the
making stuff in the lab, rather than being a
makeup artist. And I knew that I wasn't really
cut out for that sort of cutthroat fashion makeup
artistry world. And so when it came to do a work
placement, which we all had to do, I asked my
science teacher on the program if she could find
me a work placement that wasn't going to work
for a magazine or assisting a makeup artist on
a job. And she found me this work placement and
it was two weeks. And I think I had two different
options. One was going to the body shop to work
in formulation in the lab. And one was at this
place called IFF that I'd never heard of. And
I really wanted to do the body shop one because
that was what I thought was most exciting at
the time. And I'm like fragrance lab. I don't
even know what that is. But when I went for the
interview and for whatever reason, the body shot
one didn't work out. So I ended up taking the,
it was a two week placement and it was in the
sales office. in the Hammersmith sales office
for IFF and this just like this whole world that
I didn't even know about opened up and I'd always
been interested in blending essential oils and
I'd done that when I was a teenager. I think
I got my first set of essential oils when an
aromatherapy book when I was about 15 or 16.
But I had never really connected the two things
like aromatherapy with perfumery. I just didn't
it didn't even occur to me that the two things
were connected back when I was a teenager. And
so it was really through getting that work placement.
and really learning about all of the stuff that
goes on behind the scenes in the fragrance world
that made me realize how amazing scent is and
how powerful it is. I've always been interested
in wellbeing from a very, very young age. And
one of the things that I had access to through
my kind of journey, I ended up work, um, working,
did the two week work placement and then ended
up, they offered me a job a few years later,
actually. And a lot of the research that they
were doing at the time was all about how scent
can help you with your mood, how people respond
to scent. So there was a lot of research at the
time in something that they called aromacology,
which was different from aromatherapy, where
I was used to thinking about how the chemical
components of an essential oil work on your skin
or your physiology or your you know, your psychology
to help you feel different. But what they were
doing was hooking up people to, you know, ECG,
I think that's what they call it, you know, when
they kind of put the monitors on your brain activity
and getting people to smell sense. So not just
naturals, but just regular formulated sense as
well. And monitoring, you know, what fragrances
helped people to feel calmer, more energized.
And it was then that I realized that actually
it was more than just perfume. And I think what
we did, you know, I worked on a lot of own labels.
So it eventually turned into, it was applications
lab at the beginning, and then it eventually
turned into an evaluation job. And we were working,
where I was based, we were working a lot on own
label, supermarket own label. So UK brands, so
Sainsbury's, Tesco, M &S, fragrances for room
fragrance, room sprays for body products for
antiperspirants, for things like impulse body
spray links, that kind of thing, and also for
laundry detergent as well. And so what I learned
through that time in my life in that in that
career was that scent is not just about perfume
that you spray on skin that people think of as
perfume, but it goes into everything and every
little piece along the way contributes to not
only the claims of a product. So if you are creating
a body product that has claims that it's nourishing
or, you know, skin softening, the fragrance is
pivotal in supporting those claims, not from
a chemistry perspective from a psychology perspective.
And that wasn't something that as a consumer,
I really understood. And The fact that they were
running focus groups on how a scent performed
in a different product, same product, but people
were perceiving the functionality of that product
very differently, depending on the scent that
was in it. And that was something that really,
really drew me in and fascinated me. So I think
that is really where I fell down the scent rabbit
hole. When those two things connected, where
I realized that it wasn't just about something
that smelled nice. It was about something that
we could utilize for our own wellbeing as well.
I think our sense of smell, I mean, it is the
most primitive of all of our senses. And I think
people do tend to underestimate how powerful
it is and the effect it has on us. Yeah, absolutely.
And that's something that I remember writing
about for an essay in a training that I did back
in the early days. And that was, I think, I can't
even remember what the topic of the essay was
that I had to write. So I did, um, some training
with, with IFF and I did the, I think it's called
ICATS now, the Plymouth University, uh, fragrance
and business training. And it was all about the,
you know, the origins of scent and our sense
of smell and how that all works. And that's something
that I weave into a lot of my training now, my,
the teaching that I do, because I think it's
something that I suppose it's a little bit like
preaching to the choir. If you've come in to
learn about how to create fragrance or more about
fragrance, you understand the power of your sense
of smell. But I don't think people really on
a day -to -day level, unless they lose it for
some reason, appreciate the power of what we
have in our nose. And people think about it as
the nose training your nose, but it really is
the brain connection. makes it so powerful. It's
about the way that we as human beings process
smell. It's connected to our hypothalamus, our
limbic system, which regulates so many other
things in our physiology, you know, our body
temperature, our... behaviors, our hormonal regulation
as well. And obviously the one that everybody
talks about, it's where we process our memories
and that's why it's so intrinsically linked.
But I love talking about that stuff. I think
it's such a powerful way to learn about. your
sense of smell and scent. And I think it's fundamental
for anyone learning how to create fragrance.
Understanding how people process smell is just
fundamental. You can't learn to make a perfume
if you don't understand how the sense of smell
works. Definitely. And do you think now that
more and more people are kind of waking up to
how our sense of smell works and the power of
scent that we're choosing perfumes or buying
perfumes, wearing perfumes in a different way
that we're not necessarily wearing them to smell
good for others. Although, you know, we still
can do that and there's nothing wrong with that.
But we're also just wearing them just to smell,
just to feel good in ourselves rather than this
outward objective appearance, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it's something that I did a little bit
of research on way back when. And it's something
that I've always believed. I think Now what's
happening, I've been talking about scent and
wellbeing for, I don't know, well over 15 years
now, you know, many, many years. And for me,
it was always about how does this smell? How
does this perfume? How does this combination
of scented materials make me feel? And the marketing
that we were seeing at the time, going back to
sort of 80s, 90s, I suppose even early 2000s,
it was all about aspirational lifestyle. It was
still very much entrenched in that seventies,
eighties vibe of, you know, wear this perfume
and you know, you'll get the guy, the girl, the,
it was very, yeah, it was very aspirational.
It was very lifestyle. It was very sexualized.
And when I actually thought about that myself
as a consumer. It's like, it didn't really make
sense to me personally. And I ran a little poll
of my audience, you know, why do you wear perfume?
And pretty much everyone said, because it makes
me feel good. It's that spritz of a scent before
a night out. It's that if I'm feeling a little
bit crappy or not confident, I just, you know,
my favorite, this a particular smell, a particular
scent that I can spritz on. And it just makes
me feel much better. And that is something that
brands weren't exploring until lots of us out
there in the blogosphere and the kind of in the
artisan world, where actually a lot of people
came in from natural perfumery by way of aromatherapy
and wellbeing. And I think a lot of the brands
now are talking about it and it's become, you
know, functional fragrances, wellness in perfume
has been a trend over the last few years since
COVID actually, I think. But before that, we
were talking about it. Like there were lots and
lots and lots of us and aromatherapists have
been talking about it, but the industry didn't
connect the two and it feels like it's only just
caught up. Or there's like BS where in regards
to pheromone sense, which Oh, don't even get
me started. It's so funny. That whole pheromone
thing. I have journal, I had a few journalists
approach me and in hindsight, Sarah did really
well on it. She took on the challenge and went
head to head with them. And for me, I should
have done that, but I was just like, I'm not
even talking about this because it's just nonsense.
And I just sort of brushed it away. Whereas Sarah
was just like, no, I'm going to go in there and
talk about it. And I was like, I can't even be
bothered because it's just such nonsense. But
yeah, I think there is that... the industry trying
to capitalize still on that oh we wear perfume
to make us sexy and attract the opposite sex
it's like such an old trope that's nonsense and
the only way that they can try and like pull
that in now is through oh this scent is pheromones
i mean do we really believe that i think people
maybe want to believe it Is it a guy thing, do
you think? Do you think a lot of the people who
fall for that pheromone scent are men wanting
to attract women? Do women really believe in
that? You said that. I was literally talking
to somebody about this this morning that I watched
a TikTok video and it's a guy, a content creator.
He's... got an affiliate link at the bottom of
the screen, selling a perfume. And he was telling
this story about how he met a girl on a dating
app, met up with her. She didn't look anything
like her picture. He didn't fancy her, but she
was wearing this scent that he couldn't get out
of his mind. And suddenly he was just wildly
attracted to her. And if you want to shop this
scent, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I think
I've seen the same one. It's such nonsense. But
it's the same trope, isn't it? As the, oh, you
know, if you wear this fragrance, you too are
gonna be wearing a designer gown running through
hallways to meet the man of your dreams. I mean...
Yeah, I mean, there is that kind of escapist
element that you can become this sort of hyper
real version of yourself, this fantasy version
of yourself. Yeah. through scent, which I kind
of like that is lovely, but to try and ground
it in this scent will make this person will dupe
this person into falling for you. Like it's like
love potion number nine. I think it is that as
well. Isn't it? It's that Disney is Disney -fying
it. I think it's like, Oh, you know, this magic
spell will kind of like call in your, you know,
your Love. Just exactly. I remember I used to
go to these like under 16s disco nights when
I was like about 13 and they actually had, you
know, those like vending machines with little,
um, like bouncy balls and things like that, but
a vending machine of pheromone wipes. I remember
it clearly that you put a pound in this packet
of pheromone, pheromone. Don't know what was
on. Oh my God. I can't even imagine what they
put in it. But did you fall for it at 16? No,
luckily, I wasn't rich enough to even have the
money to to even I remember being intrigued being
like, Oh, what's you know, what's that all about?
But yes, it is just crazy how that, you know,
there is that, like you say, this really beautiful,
rich array of knowledge and information that
is isn't tapped into, but yet there is all this
nonsense out there that people are kind of pushing
forward instead when they could be telling a
more authentic story in a way that's a lot more
powerful and a lot more. Yeah, it's pitching
to the lowest common denominator rather than
putting the effort in and creating a story around
the scent. And, you know, we've talked about
this before, but it's something that I think
both of us agree on, like the story in scent
creation is so much more powerful. And it's something
that a lot of mainstream brands still are not
doing very well. No, I was speaking to Nick and
Pia at Old Fiction about this, and I think Pia
said that a lot of brands probably wouldn't want
to change the story they've been telling for
so long because it would probably affect them
commercially because, you know, it seems to know
if it's not broke, don't fix it. Yeah, I guess.
Much more eloquently than I did, but that's kind
of... Yeah, and I think that if we're talking,
you know, big commercial brands, obviously that's
entrenched in history. And I think it's different
though. When you look at brands that have got
heritage for many, many, you know, it, it just
tells itself. And I think it doesn't always need
new stories because there's so much there already
in the history. But I think if you're a new brand,
if you're a small indie, you definitely do have
to lean into story because I see a lot of brands
talking about, oh, well, you know, we use the
best quality materials or, you know, talking
about their fragrances in terms of scent notes.
And that doesn't really tell you anything about
how the perfume smells. No, exactly. Especially
when we know about fragrance and are embedded
in that world. But if you're a consumer off the
street, you're not going to know what Tonka bean
is. And even if you do, even if you look at a
scent pyramid on a website and you see all of
the notes there, it doesn't give you any indication
about what that fragrance smells like because
you could have three different fragrances with
the same scent notes on the same pyramid and
they would smell completely different. It's all
about you know what else is in there that they
don't talk about you know how it's arranged in
terms of structure and the ratios of the materials
you know is it a tonka forward fragrance and
is it like really kind of sweet and powdery or
is that just a hint in the back note you can't
really tell from looking at scent notes like
that so yeah i think story is much much more
helpful definitely it's about evoking a mood
or an image or something but gives you kind of
it obviously you can never capture in words what
something smells like but it gives you an idea
of okay if you're this kind of person and you
appreciate this kind of you know imagery or atmosphere
then you might like this scent but still there
is it is a challenge and i think that's kind
of what people underestimate and i know that
you've taught thousands of students over the
years what are some what are some of the other
misconceptions people have when it comes to fragrance
creation? I think it's changing a lot. So if
I kind of dial it back to when I first stepped
back into the industry, so I was out of the industry
for quite a long time, about six or so years,
doing something completely different. And I decided
back in 2010 to come back into teaching perfumery
and you know, for a variety of reasons. Personally,
it was more for my own sanity and mental health
and anything. Actually, it never, I never intended
it to turn into a business. Actually, it was
just a sort of side gig hobby from my day to
day business that I was running that was driving
me nuts. But what I realized when I was started
to do research is that people at that time. And
I think it has changed a lot now. I think there's
less gatekeeping now. I think it's a lot more
open, but there was this huge misconception,
I suppose that you, the only way that you could
make perfume or be a perfumer was to go to one
of the big industry schools that you had to have
a chemistry degree. Otherwise you wouldn't, there's
no way you could learn to make perfume. that
you couldn't be self -taught or make perfumes
safely that people would buy without having the
tutelage of a master perfumer who had been in
the industry for a long time. And one of the
things that people didn't realize is that there
was so much smoke and mirrors in the industry
and a lot of the, you know, all of the fragrances
that we see commercially are really only made
by a very, very few companies. So everything
from, you know, Dior, I mean, I don't know about
Dior now. I'm probably don't quote me on this
because I don't know what, cause I'm a lot of
the big companies now have in -house perfumers,
but you know, mainstream commercial fragrance
brands generally, they pitch to all of the fragrance
houses and you might have a collection of fragrances
from a brand and one perfume is made by IFF,
another one is made by Giver Dan, another one
might be made by a smaller fragrance house. And
it's not a, it's a very tiny industry in terms
of commercial freight. It's like volume is huge.
Um, but there, there weren't many people and
there are not really still many kind of perfume,
you know, commercial perfumers out there who,
um, are working in the industry. And I think
a lot of people didn't realize that actually,
you know, UK is something that you can learn.
You don't, there is a reason, there's a really
specific reason. I think why the commercial fragrance
industry trains perfumers the way that they do
and why it takes as long as it does. And don't
get me wrong, you know, they're masters at their
craft and they are very, very, very highly trained.
But the commercial fragrance industry, the majority
of the business, I suppose, the volume in terms
of sales comes from selling, you know, tons of
fragrance to big brands, big organizations, things
like Unilever, P &G. And a lot of that fragrance
work is based around creating scents for laundry
detergent. functional products like toilet cleaner,
products that you actually need to be a technical,
you need to be a very proficient technical perfumer
to create fragrances like that. Creating a fragrance
for an alcohol base is so much simpler in terms
of how it's going to perform than creating a
fragrance for a laundry detergent that's got
to last through a wash or creating a fragrance
for a toilet cleaner that has got this bleach
back note or for an air freshener aerosol that
needs to cover a maloda. For me, they're very,
very different. And so what I teach, what I talk
about a lot is artisan perfumery. So I'm not
training people to go into the industry. And
I think if you want to go into the industry and
become a commercial perfumer, you really do have
to go through those steps because it's a very
different world. And those perfumers, they are
They have to know their materials inside out
because they're not hands on with materials every
day. They're formulating on a spreadsheet on
a computer. This image where you've got every
perfumer surrounded by a great organ full of
materials is a massive myth. You know, they are
at their desk tapping away into spreadsheets.
They're formulating in their head. They know
exactly what point one increase of a particular
material is going to do within that formulation.
And that takes many, many years, like decades
of, of perfection and study. And also they have
access to historical formulas that the companies
have been using. And, you know, they do a lot
of GCMS analysis on other companies fragrances.
So, you know, this is something that comes up
a lot where the dupes and the clones, you know,
copycat perfumes. And what people don't talk
about is the fact that the industry do that anyway.
I said to someone the other day, it was on a
post on Instagram that most people don't realize
the industry, the big companies, they're always
analyzing their competitors fragrances using
GCMS and then doing a twist. And, you know, it's
not really copying. It's a lot of the commercial
perfumery, the world of commercial perfumery
is just, everything seems to smell the same.
Is that why? Yeah. And, and the industry in itself
is, is built on plagiarism, if we're going to
be really brutally honest, but it's like remixing
things. And I suppose it's like the music industry,
every industry remixes ideas from the past, but
literally, you know, ripping a fragrance formulation
from a GCMS and kind of going, okay. Like, how
can we trickle this down into a fragrance for
a body spray or an own label air freshener? And
the set with, you know, being transparent, the
companies that produce the originals also create
copycats of those originals and sell those to
different companies as well. And I think people
think that the clone and the dupe companies,
who do we think? is actually making these perfumes
for the dupe and the clone companies. It's the
same. And why have they not said anything about
it? It's because the same companies are still
making the money from them. At the end of the
day, they're still creating those formulations.
And, you know, of course, like they're all trying
to compete with each other. So they are inventing
molecules and keeping them as what we call captives.
So if you have a captive molecule and you're
someone like IFF, what it means is you're not
selling, you've invented that thing, that component,
and you're not selling that to Giverdan perfumers
or, you know, Robertet perfumers. You only are
keeping it for your own perfumers to use. which
means that it won't pop up on a GCMS because
people don't know it exists. And that happened
many, many years. Like when I was in the industry,
you know, we tried to copy angel so many times,
but the company that made it quest at the time,
they had a component that was a captive molecule.
So no one could get close to it until it got
to a point where, you know, they'd almost squeezed
all the juice out of that. that particular material,
that molecule, that scent direction, and then
they sold it to other, you know, other perfumers
could buy it. And so then you were able to get
much, much closer to a copy of Angel because
they had that captive. It was available for everyone.
So I think there's still a lot of smoke and mirrors.
I think there's a lot more scope now. A lot of
people are... becoming, especially consumers
as well, becoming a lot more educated. There's
a lot more education out there. And my mission,
I think, when I first started back in 2010 teaching
again was to demystify the industry for people
who wanted to do it for themselves. And originally
I didn't ever intend to teach people how to create
fragrances. to launch brands, it was literally
doing a one day per natural perfume making class
for people to come and learn how to make their
own perfume for themselves. And that was that
that was really all it was for more of a hobby,
a well being. Yeah. And then I started to get
people asking me, well, well, you know, what
about synthetics? Could you teach a class with
mixed media? And then people started to say,
oh, well, yeah, but I want to launch my own brand.
Do you, do you teach people how to do that as
well. And then I developed my first online course
and because it was global, I wrote my book. Um,
and I published, the book was published in 2013,
the perfume book and It gave me a bit more of
a global audience who couldn't come maybe to
the UK to a one -day class. And so that was when
I launched my first online course. And at the
time, people said to me, well, how can you learn
perfume making online? That's impossible. And
we managed it. And I had people join and dive
into it. And many of them have got their own
brands now. And yeah, I think it... people were
still of that view that you have to be physically
in the room with someone helping you to learn
how to make perfume. And that is so, so not true.
Yeah, of course, if you have no accountability,
you're not going to do the work, then of course
it's harder. And actually having someone else
outside of you to evaluate what you create, again,
that is really invaluable. But if you put the
work in and you've got and you're dedicated,
there is no reason why you can't do it with some
help and advice and the knowledge, you know,
that we all provide. There are so many of us
now teaching people perfumery and outside of
the industry. And I think there's so much more
available now that it is possible if you are
an artisan and you want to do this for yourself.
It's a bit like you're the As an Indian artisan,
you're the person making the handmade couture
garment. And the commercial industry is kind
of like the Primark. And they're very different.
You wouldn't say, well, there's no room for a
handmade dress because we've got Primark. You
just wouldn't compare them. Courses for courses,
isn't it? Yeah. But people, I think people do
get caught up with the fact that, well, there's
no room in the industry. It's already over saturated.
And I do agree. There's, it's a massively saturated
market now, especially with small Indies artisans,
you know, people launching brands all the time
and commercial launches, thousands of commercial
launches every year now. And it's very easy to
think, well, there's no more room in the market.
And I think there's no more room in the market
for more crappy fragrances, but I do think that
there's room for something with a really strong
story, whether that is the fragrance story, the
brand story, the founder story even, and something
that is really tapping into an emotion or a feeling
that someone connects with. Definitely, because
the opportunities are endless, really, aren't
they, for that unique storytelling where you're
really saying something different. I mean, like
I said, the world of our scent and our sense
of smell is just so vast and fascinating. And
I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg
when talking about it. And we're definitely in
a commercial sense. We're nearly at the end of
our time, and I could honestly chat about this.
you know, all day. But one thing I really wanted
to ask you is how important is fragrance when
it comes to brand development? Because I really
liked what you said earlier about how scent can
really influence a consumer's perception of a
product. If we say this is nourishing and it
has a certain scent, it makes them more inclined
to believe that it is nourishing. I mean, I'd
love to hear more about how fragrance can influence
the development of a brand. It's huge. I mean,
my background. both as an evaluator back in the
day at IFF and when I worked in product development
at Neil's Yard after that was all about the customer
journey. So whether you're developing a fragrance
for a brand who are putting together the base
product, whether it's the lotion, the shampoo,
the whatever, or you're developing the full product,
you really, really have to ask yourself, what
is it that I want this customer, this user, this
end user to feel and experience when they use
my product? And it's not about functional ingredients.
I mean, it depends what you're making. Functional
ingredients obviously are important. And if you
are making claims about a particular ingredient
on a skincare product, you know, obviously it's
got to be in there, but I think people underestimate
the psychological power of how something smells.
And even if you've got a product that is very,
very functional, people still want a sensory
experience with it. And at the very least, it
can't smell horrible. So It's got to be pleasing
to use. It's got to be an enjoyable experience,
whether it's you washing your dishes or whether
you're washing your hair or whether you're putting
cream on your feet. You know, it's still got
to make sense in the product. And this is something
that I teach in all of my programs, actually,
that you've got to start thinking about it as
a supporting It's a fundamental supporting role
in how that product is going to be sold and performed.
Because we, as human beings, we are always looking
for clues all over the place about whether we've
made the right choice when we're buying something.
And so I think if you're creating a fragrance,
like, you know, an alcohol based skin perfume
that's a fragrance for fragrance sake. I think
that's, that's one thing that's a different beast.
If you like, there's got to be the sort of this,
the aspirational, the story, the feeling, you
know, all of that. Um, that's a bit more abstract,
but if you're creating fragrances for an, uh,
different product type, whether that is a re
diffuser or a shampoo or a body product, you
really, really have to make sure that what you
are saying to the customer. about what your product
is going to do, has a supporting fragrance with
it that also says that same thing to the customer.
Because if there's a disconnect, it doesn't matter
how good the ingredients in your product are
or how well that product actually physically
performs, the customer is going to be choosing
it from a range of other products on a shelf,
primarily by whether they believe what you say
on the packaging, and the smell. That's their
first touch point. And so we've all done it,
right? We've all kind of gone to a supermarket
or a, you know, boots and we all flip the cap
and have a sniff, don't we? If it's not sealed
up, like we don't not do that because, and I
don't know what we think we're going to achieve,
but it's something that maybe it goes back to
that primitive you know, sniffing something to
make sure it's not off or poisonous. Yeah. I
think it's a primitive thing. Definitely. Um,
cause so you're saying that scent is kind of
like a sales person for this product. Yeah, absolutely.
It has to be because if it's fragrance free and
you've got some of these amazing base oils that
have got all of these enriching, you know, gorgeous
properties, but they smell rancid. It doesn't
matter how good that product actually physically
is. People are really going to be repelled by
it. And so you need extra work in the scent there
to entice the person to buy it so that they can
actually use it and get the benefit. So yeah,
it is exactly that. It's a salesperson for your
product. Well, Karen, like I say, I could chat
about all this stuff with you all day, but thank
you so much for joining me. I really appreciate
it. And it was so lovely having you on the podcast.
You're very welcome. Hello and welcome to the
Smart Beauty Podcast. I'm your host, Viola Levy,
beauty journalist and founder of copy led branding
agency, Smart Beauty Creative. We're here to
create your brand voice and craft the story behind
it.