1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:22,520 Welcome to the NICU Dad podcast, a podcast for NICU 2 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,880 Dads by NICU Dads. I'm Alex Zavala, a father to two preemie 3 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,600 girls, Mia who was born at 30 weeks, and Emerson who was born 4 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,560 at 27 weeks. Combined my wife Jenn and I both spent over 100 5 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,560 days in the NICU. After my last NICU experience, I started The 6 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,880 NICU Dad. I did this to try and fill the gap in information 7 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,160 and support that was lacking for NICU Dads. Be sure and check 8 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:47,880 out thenicudadad.com and hopefully, you will find it a 9 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,200 useful resource. In this podcast, we will cover many 10 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,040 topics that NICU parents face but from the NICU Dad's 11 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,200 perspective. Topics such as premature birth, bereavement, 12 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,200 PTSD, and many others. These dads who you'll hear share their 13 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,760 stories in hope of letting other NICU dads know they are not 14 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:07,120 alone. 15 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,240 Welcome to Episode One of The NICU Dad podcast. In this 16 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,480 episode, I'm interviewed by Hand to Hold's very own Kelli Kelley. 17 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,280 This was also our very first episode for the NICU Dad 18 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,160 Discussions podcast we did. In this episode, I share my NICU 19 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,120 story. I hope you enjoy it. 20 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:39,520 I am so excited, Alex, to have you on our first podcast 21 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:46,000 specifically for dads and just so excited to talk to you today 22 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,520 and hear your NICU story. 23 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,800 Thanks for having me. I'm very excited about all of this and 24 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,200 just hopefully excited to see what we can do for NICU 25 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,640 families but also mainly NICU dads. 26 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:04,560 Well, those dads are often overlooked, you know, and I want 27 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,320 to share with our audience. If you don't know Alex, Alex is 28 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:13,480 THE NICU Dad. And as we mentioned in his introduction 29 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,920 has a wonderful blog for dads and is very active in the 30 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:22,920 NICU community and his daughter's hospital but in our 31 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:27,800 community and does a lot of work does a lot of good for our 32 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,960 NICU graduate families. But you're not a small little guy, 33 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:37,560 are you Alex? You're a big guy, got a full beard. I mean, you 34 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,600 are a handsome man and you know, one that you wouldn't think 35 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,640 would shed a tear you just are a tough tough looking guy with 36 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:50,960 some tattoos going. But as we've discussed, as we've gotten to 37 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,480 know each other, we've done all that falls away when you have a 38 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:00,120 traumatic birth and a baby in the NICU and dads are very 39 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,280 vulnerable. But we don't always talk about it. We just you know, 40 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,160 we kind of, the dad takes on the tough guy role in the NICU 41 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,080 because he's got to take care of himself and his wife and the 42 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,320 baby and there's just a lot going on. But I'm so glad that 43 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,880 you're going to offer this space for dad discussions, real NICU 44 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,560 dad discussions about what it's really like in the NICU 45 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,680 and to start, I just really want you to start from the beginning, 46 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,680 tell us how did you become a NICU dad? What do you remember 47 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,040 about that day? 48 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,080 Well, for us, and once again, I mean, thank you guys so much for 49 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,440 doing this and just everything you do for the NICU 50 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,960 community. So for us, both of both of our daughters are born 51 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,720 premature. Our oldest, my stepdaughter was born at 30 52 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,360 weeks, and she weighed three pounds, six ounces. And our 53 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,920 youngest was born at 27 weeks. And she weighed two pounds, five 54 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,480 ounces. With her, that was my NICU journey. And that's 55 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,120 really where I became a NICU dad was with our youngest. So 56 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,720 with this pregnancy, pregnancy being high-risk, as soon as we 57 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,600 found out we were pregnant, and we were seeing a bunch of doctors. 58 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,440 We always joke now about how we had more pictures of our baby 59 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,040 before she was even born than after, just because we're getting 60 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,840 so many sonogram pictures and ultrasounds and stuff like that. 61 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:33,400 Just constantly checking up and making sure that she wasn't born 62 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:38,680 early. And we did shots, which was quite an ordeal if anybody's 63 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,120 ever had to do that. I was having to administer shots to my 64 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:49,120 wife, I think weekly. And that was a complete, it was a giant 65 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,600 nightmare within itself just doing that, and all the 66 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,960 difficulties that come with that. But everything was going 67 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,600 okay with the pregnancy. Everything was fine. And about 68 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:06,760 at 27 weeks, we just went into 27 weeks, they administered a 69 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,960 test that they do at 27 weeks, they do this test and it tests 70 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:16,440 the proteins in the mother. And pretty much if the test comes 71 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:22,000 back positive, you're likely to deliver within the next two 72 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,920 weeks. And we took our test and it came back negative. It was on 73 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,600 a Thursday. Never forget this. It was on a Thursday test came 74 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,320 back negative. And the doctor said, Hey, you know what you guys got a 75 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,280 two-week window, go and travel, you know, do whatever you you 76 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:45,120 need to do to, you know, to take care of, because after this next, 77 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:50,040 you know, after this two-week period, you know, things 78 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,400 are going to be touchy or, you know, we're gonna have to be 79 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:58,560 more sensitive to everything. And that was a Thursday. So that 80 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:04,720 Monday morning was the first day of summer for our oldest, we had 81 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,320 planned on spending our first day of summer swimming and 82 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,280 everything, I was going to go to work for a little while. And my 83 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:19,160 wife went to work that morning, we had gone the day before to 84 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:24,280 one of the stores to register for our baby shower, you know, 85 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:28,600 something you do about that time, going into 27 weeks, it 86 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,560 was something we were going to plan for. So the day before that 87 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,640 evening, we had spent shopping around looking at things and 88 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,240 registering for our baby shower that we were planning on having, 89 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:43,040 you know, a few weeks down the line. But that next morning, 90 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,080 that Monday morning, my wife went to work, and I dropped off our 91 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,880 oldest at my mom's house, at her grandmother's house. And I went 92 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,000 to work also just for a little while, I was just going to go 93 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,600 for an hour or two and then come back and we're going to spend our 94 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:05,000 first day of summer together. So around 9 am, I'm at work, 95 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:12,440 probably about 45 minutes from where we live. And around 9 am, I 96 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:20,480 get a call, I get a phone call. And it's my wife. And I can't 97 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,760 understand anything she's saying. She's just crying and 98 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:36,000 crying and crying. And she finally, I can finally understand 99 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,200 that she's telling me that her water broke. So we're just kind 100 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:48,240 of in shock. You know, she's 27 weeks pregnant. I'm thinking 101 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:55,040 the worst. She says her water broke, she doesn't know what to 102 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,120 do. She's at work, they're calling an ambulance. And the 103 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,200 phone goes dead. And her boss calls me back and her boss is a 104 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:12,960 friend of the family. And she tells me that her water broke, 105 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,080 they're calling an ambulance and they're taking her to the 106 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:25,880 hospital. And that's all they tell me really. So I'm sitting 107 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,320 there with this news. And like I said, I'm thinking the worst. 108 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:38,560 27 weeks, I never had before that I didn't. The survival rate 109 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:43,320 that I thought for 27 weeks was zero. Pretty much when she told 110 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:53,160 me her water broke, I thought we lost our baby. And so I jumped 111 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,760 in my truck. And that 45 minute ride to the hospital was made in 112 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:11,880 about 10 minutes. I'm sure other NICU dads have made that car 113 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:22,920 ride. And it's like nothing else. There's a lot of promises. 114 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,120 It's still so painful to talk about, you know? Yeah. Well, 115 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:27,640 yeah. 116 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,440 After all this time, you can just hear the pain in your voice 117 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,840 and it's like you're back there, right? You're just back there. 118 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,400 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 119 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,040 Making that drive. It plays like a movie in your head. 120 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,720 Yeah, every time. Every time. It's been five years and I'm 121 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:47,240 never going to forget that car ride. There were so many 122 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,200 promises. There were so many. I swear I'm never going to do this 123 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,600 again. I swear I'm going to start doing this and just please, 124 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,560 please, please. And just begging and pleading, you know, with 125 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,520 whether you believe in God or a higher power or anything. I mean, 126 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:10,400 you're just holding on to hope on that ride. And, you know, it 127 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,440 plays like a movie now. It played like a movie then. It was 128 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:18,360 kind of an out of body experience. I mean, everything 129 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,840 was just so surreal. Just like in the movies, you know, it was 130 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,640 the truck pulling in to a screeching halt in a parking lot 131 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:32,600 and a dad running into a hospital and starting, you know, 132 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,880 just like in the movies. I ran in there and I'm like, where's 133 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,920 the maternity ward? My wife, they brought my wife in in an 134 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,560 ambulance and she's having a baby and where do I go? Where do 135 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,760 I go? And, you know, somebody pointing to me down this hall 136 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:56,760 and running in there and the movie didn't stop. The movie 137 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:02,400 didn't stop. I ran into the room and I opened that door and it 138 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,400 was just another scene from a movie. It was my wife on a bed 139 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,800 surrounded by a team of doctors and there's her boss and every, 140 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,280 you know, she has this look of fright. She was so scared and 141 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:20,800 she's crying and, you know, her boss is crying and I'm walking 142 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,680 in and we don't know anything. We don't know anything other 143 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:30,040 than the baby, you know, we're just trying to save the baby's 144 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:39,240 life and the doctors were trying to slow down everything to make 145 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:46,240 sure she didn't go into labor. And we just kind of look at each 146 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,240 other and we're crying and holding hands and, you know, and 147 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,240 I'm telling her I'm sorry. 148 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:59,240 And why were you apologizing? Do you remember? Like what were 149 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:04,240 you? Yeah, I was just, you know, like nothing had changed for me 150 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:10,240 as far as still thinking that we were, our baby was done, you 151 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,240 know, and I was just telling her I'm sorry for all this 152 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:17,240 happening. And, you know, I don't know if it's the months 153 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,240 before where you're trying, you know, being a high risk 154 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:27,240 pregnancy, you know, and all the stuff you go through, you know, 155 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:33,240 to have it, to have everything happen like that. You know, I 156 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,240 don't know if it makes it worse because you were so careful. 157 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,240 You were so, you know, you were already stressed. And then, you 158 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,240 know, to see it happen like that, I don't know if it was just, 159 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,240 you know, I imagine it's probably still the same, but it 160 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:55,240 was still so hard. And we went and just like everything else, 161 00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:00,240 like I said, you know, I know we're just another story in this 162 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:07,240 book of NICU families that goes through the same thing. Before 163 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:14,240 we could even real or even, you know, grasp what was happening, 164 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:19,240 we find out that the baby's breech and they're going to have 165 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,240 to do an emergency C-section. And, you know, I'm trying to get 166 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,240 information from the doctors and, you know, I'm trying to tell 167 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:34,240 them, you know, like what do you mean, what's going on? And just 168 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,240 as quickly as, you know, here we are, baby's coming and we're 169 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:44,240 taking the mom out. And, you know, so this is all happening 170 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:51,240 only in a matter of minutes. And they whisk her out and they tell 171 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,240 me, you know, they take me back to go and get scrubbed up for 172 00:13:54,240 --> 00:14:01,240 surgery. And I barely have enough time to shoot a couple of text 173 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,240 messages to, you know, my parents, you know, her sister, just 174 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,240 to let other people know kind of what's going on because nobody 175 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:18,240 knows what's going on. And they take me back. I get scrubbed in, 176 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,240 get my, you know, everything ready for surgery. And there's a 177 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:27,240 lot of alone time for a NICU dad, or at least there was for me. 178 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:37,240 And so you're, it's a very, very lonely, scary place. And it's 179 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:48,240 humbling, it's everything. You know, the emotions, I mean, I guess 180 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,240 that's why it's still hard to talk about today. Just because of 181 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,240 the different scenarios and situations that you're dealing 182 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:02,240 with are things that you wouldn't want to wish on your worst enemy. 183 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,240 You know, when they take her into surgery, you're not worried for 184 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:10,240 both. And of course, that's not going to change. That's going to 185 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,240 be your next, you know, the rest of your NICU experience is going 186 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,240 to be you worrying about more than one person. I had a moment 187 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,240 where the doctor was walking by and, you know, he got me ready. 188 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,240 And before he left, you know, I'm asking him, pleading with him 189 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:32,240 to just take care of my wife and my baby, just, you know, just to 190 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,240 make sure that they both survive, because that's what you're going 191 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,240 into. You don't know what's going to happen. You know, you don't 192 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:45,240 know if you're going to lose one or both or, you know, or how this 193 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:51,240 is actually going to end. And we get into the operating room and 194 00:15:51,240 --> 00:16:02,240 they do the C-section and that, we have that experience and, you 195 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:08,240 know, I'm sure like everybody else, they, I'll never forget 196 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,240 them taking my daughter out and saying, you know, oh, it's a girl 197 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:20,240 and not hearing anything. Dead silence. And that silence seemed 198 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:28,240 to last forever. And it was just, it almost was so long where it 199 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:36,240 confirmed my suspicion, you know, or confirmed my thoughts just 200 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,240 because they, you know, they tell you, oh, it's a girl and they 201 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:45,240 take her and just silence. There's no baby crying. And it seemed 202 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:52,240 like that little, however many minutes was a lifetime. And then, 203 00:16:52,240 --> 00:17:01,240 thank God, I hear her cry. And I know, I hear a lot of other dads 204 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:08,240 talk about that, about how long that really seems before you hear 205 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:14,240 that cry. Sometimes when they take a baby out in the C-section. 206 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:24,240 And from there, it was a team of doctors working on my daughter 207 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:33,240 and seeing how little she was and what she looked like. It just, 208 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:39,240 it seemed unreal. And then my focus went back on my wife. 209 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,240 Unreal that she could live. Just, she didn't. 210 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,240 Yeah. Yeah. And there was still, there was still, you know, with 211 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,240 her being so small and, you know, the whole experience, it was 212 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:57,240 just, she can't be okay. You know, you're just hoping and praying 213 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,240 that, you know, let everything be okay. But just let her make it. 214 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:10,240 And you see her and she's so fragile and just so tiny. But then, 215 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:15,240 you know, there's a team of doctors around her and working on her. 216 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:21,240 And then my focus goes to my wife and she was losing a lot of blood. 217 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:27,240 She was really, you know, kind of going in and out of it. 218 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:35,240 And so, I mean, that was my concern next was, you know, is she going 219 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:41,240 to be okay? You know, it was just, it's supposed to be one of the 220 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,240 most happiest points of your life, the birth of your child. 221 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:52,240 And I don't want to say it was a nightmare, but it's the two mixed together. 222 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,240 Right. You know, it's a nightmare that you're in, but at the same 223 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,240 time, if everything comes out okay, it's one of the greatest days of 224 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:09,240 your life. So they got Jen, my wife, taken care of and she started 225 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:18,240 doing better. And they took our daughter, Emerson, back into the NICU 226 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:27,240 and they took Jen to recovery. And so they asked me to go if I wanted to 227 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,240 see my daughter in the NICU. And I said, absolutely. They had already 228 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:40,240 taken Jen to recovery. So I go back there and I see her. And as crazy 229 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:47,240 as it sounds, I knew immediately she was going to be okay. 230 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:54,240 You could just, she was such a fighter. And you could just see it. 231 00:19:54,240 --> 00:20:01,240 You could tell. I could tell. And I took a picture of our hands touching. 232 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:09,240 And that tiny little hand grabbing my finger, her hand was about as big 233 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:15,240 as the tip of my finger and about as big as the nail on your thumb. 234 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:21,240 And, but I just knew immediately she was going to be okay. Just, she had 235 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:27,240 so much fight. And I'm in here taking pictures of her and talking to her 236 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:38,240 and just trying to spend that time with my baby. But then, you know, 237 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:47,240 then the guilt, not a lot of NICU dads have, starts coming in. My wife 238 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,240 hasn't even seen our daughter. She doesn't know what she looks like. 239 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:57,240 She doesn't know anything about her. And, you know, the dorm is a baby's 240 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:04,240 born and handed to the mom. You know, that's what you see. That's what's 241 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:12,240 supposed to happen. And that doesn't happen for NICU moms a lot of times. 242 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,240 So I tried to take a bunch of pictures and then I left her, as hard as that 243 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,240 was, to go see my wife. And, you know, I'm kind of showing her pictures 244 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:29,240 and she's still trying to come back to normal, you know, after surgery. 245 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:39,240 And that, you know, that's the NICU shuffle for dads. You know, that started 246 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:48,240 for me of who do I need to be with, where do I need to be, and what do I do? 247 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:55,240 I mean, it's so hard to describe all the emotions and feelings that happen 248 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:01,240 at this one time. Because you're responsible for everybody. You're fine, 249 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:09,240 even though inside you were freaking out and breaking and trying everything 250 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:17,240 you can to hold it together. Because you're also talking to doctors. 251 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,240 You know, you're trying to be at two places that weren't and trying to take 252 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:28,240 care of 100 things all at the same time. And so they told me, because Emerson 253 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:35,240 was so small, the NICU there couldn't handle her. So she had to be 254 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,240 transported to another hospital. 255 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,240 Oh, that's so scary. I know so many of our families are in that situation, 256 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:48,240 unfortunately. And then it often means the babies are separated from their 257 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,240 moms, right? 258 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:50,240 Yeah, exactly. 259 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:56,240 So this NICU shuffle you just talked about becomes, I don't even know the 260 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,240 right word. It's more than shuffle. 261 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:11,240 Yeah, it's definitely, and it's so common, especially for those reasons. 262 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:20,240 We went and they transported her to Dell Children's Hospital in Austin, 263 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:26,240 which once again was probably about 30, 45 minutes away from where we lived. 264 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,240 And they asked me if I wanted to follow the ambulance to the hospital. 265 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:39,240 And I couldn't believe it as I was saying it, but when they asked, I said 266 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:46,240 maybe. And everything in me was telling me to say yes. But on the other end, 267 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:52,240 I had my wife in the hospital. And let us not forget, our oldest is still 268 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:59,240 at grandma's house. And I'm barely able to kind of text people to give updates. 269 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:05,240 So I'm trying to figure out what's going on. And just to give you a timeframe 270 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,240 on how fast all this happened, that phone call came at 9 a.m. in the morning 271 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:20,240 that Monday. The baby was born around noon. So everything happened just in a 272 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:31,240 matter of three hours or so. And so they took her, and I mean, this is another 273 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:37,240 thing about moms and what they deal with. They were taking, they were 274 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:43,240 transporting our daughter in an oscillet that was ready for transport, 275 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:48,240 which basically is like an incubator that's completely covered. You can't even 276 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:53,240 see the baby in there, just barely. And they were wheeling her out. They stopped 277 00:24:53,240 --> 00:25:02,240 her. They stopped right by my wife and I. And we took a picture. And that 278 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:07,240 picture, I know we don't think about it a lot, but it's so haunting just of the 279 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,240 NICU experience in the beginning. And what we go through, that was our baby 280 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:17,240 picture. Like that was our first family photo. And that was the only glimpse 281 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:28,240 that my wife had of our daughter. And it's just, it's so wrong, you know, 282 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:37,240 and unfair for it to be that way for NICU families and moms and dads. You know, 283 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:46,240 you're robbed us so much. But they took her and took her to the hospital. I made 284 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:52,240 sure that everything was set up for my wife and what she needed. And I left 285 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:58,240 there, went home. The whole time afterwards, I was like, I need a shower. 286 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:04,240 You know, I need to, you know, figure out what makes her my daughter. Are our 287 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,240 other daughters okay? And she has dinner. And that started the bigger NICU 288 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:16,240 journey and the bigger NICU shuffle of dads that have a wife in one hospital, a 289 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,240 baby in one. And then you still have siblings and pets and work and 290 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:28,240 everything else in another area. And it's always where are you going to go? Who 291 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:35,240 needs you the most? And what do you do? And I remember I left the hospital. My 292 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,240 wife's sister had come in and, you know, that helped us huge. You know, that was 293 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,240 just so huge for us. Because she got to stay with her while she healed in the 294 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,240 hospital. And I ran home, packed up our dog and some clothes for my daughter, 295 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:56,240 went to my parents' house, visited with her for maybe an hour or so, made sure 296 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:01,240 she was taken care of. And then I drove to the hospital. And I spent the night 297 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:11,240 there. And that, you know, just kind of had that whole experience, which was 298 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,240 something I'll never forget also. I mean, walking in and seeing your baby in the 299 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:28,240 NICU with all the tubes and wires and everything all over them, it was, I 300 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:36,240 don't know, it's indescribable. The picture I get in my head, I am a big guy. 301 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:43,240 I'm probably about 6 foot, weigh about 300 pounds. And the nurse that was in 302 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:50,240 there the first time that I saw our daughter, she's now a friend of our family 303 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:57,240 and everything. She's part of our family, which most of your NICU staff becomes. 304 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:05,240 But she's a very small person. She's probably about 5 foot or so. And I'll 305 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,240 never forget this. We joke about it now. But the first time that I walked in and 306 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:20,240 she pulled the cover back, I lost it. You know, just seeing how frail and how 307 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:31,240 small and just that whole image of her with all the wires and just, you know, 308 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:39,240 not looking like a normal baby that you see that's delivered. It was just, I 309 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:46,240 don't want to use the word horrific, but sometimes it is. You know, and your baby 310 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:54,240 doesn't look like a normal baby. And it's just, it's so scary. So scary. 311 00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:04,240 And I think you're trying to be brave, right? I think for moms, I don't want to 312 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,240 be sexist in any way, but I think for women and showing our emotions and breaking 313 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:17,240 down in sobs, but I think for dads, they feel, I don't know, a little more reserved 314 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:24,240 that they can't show. Oh, absolutely. There's a machismo there that we're not 315 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:31,240 supposed to cry. And I tell everybody this. I never cried before this. Before our 316 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:37,240 daughter was born, I was not a crier. You know, and that's how I was brought up. 317 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:43,240 But from that day forward, I mean, especially when I talk about this, and that's 318 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:49,240 why you get what you get, but you know, seeing her that way, and I don't know if 319 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,240 it was the total of all the day's events or so, but I just couldn't compose 320 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,240 myself anymore, and I just lost it. And like I said, here I am, this big guy with 321 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,240 this tiny woman just rubbing my back telling me it's going to be okay. 322 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:10,240 Thank God for those nurses. You know, they've seen a lot of dads before you, and 323 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:17,240 they understand. They really do understand. So walk me through. So now, how long 324 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:23,240 did Jen have to stay in the other hospital before she was discharged? 325 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Well, you know, hats off to my wife. She's a very determined woman. They almost 326 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:41,240 let her out and discharged her the next day, almost. But she, I mean, physically, 327 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,240 she just couldn't do it. She ended up staying in the hospital, I think, for two 328 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:53,240 nights, and then was released. But she couldn't walk. You know, she was still 329 00:30:53,240 --> 00:31:02,240 healing, but there's no keeping, you know, a mom away from her baby. So luckily 330 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:08,240 and thankfully at the hospital that we're at, they had, in the NICU, they had 331 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:17,240 these sleep rooms, and we were fortunate enough to get them pretty much every 332 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:25,240 night for almost a week. And that was just an adventure within itself. We would 333 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:32,240 go and we would spend the night there and sleep there, which was great because I 334 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:39,240 was wheeling her around in a wheelchair. And she would pump in there, and it was 335 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,240 just such a great experience. But we would also have to pack up our stuff and 336 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,240 see if we were going to get it the next night. But fortunately, like I said, we 337 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:53,240 were able to have that for a whole week. And that week, my wife was able to heal. 338 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,240 And she got to the point where she could walk around and everything. But, you 339 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,240 know, and we had our baby just right down the hall, which was huge for us. Our 340 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:07,240 NICU stay with Emerson was for 67 days. And we ran into a bunch of some of the 341 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:14,240 same issues that other NICU families do, maternity leave, how are you going to 342 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,240 manage that. You know, you don't know how long your NICU stay is going to be, but 343 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,240 sometimes you have an idea, especially with the preening. You know you're not 344 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:28,240 getting out, you know, in four weeks or so until that baby gets older and bigger. 345 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:36,240 And so those are some of the things that we had to deal with. We were very set on 346 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:42,240 trying to be as involved as we could be. And so it was very important for us to 347 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:48,240 be there for the doctors, for our daughter, as much as we could in the NICU, 348 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,240 for rounds and things like that. We were just, we were trying to soak up as much 349 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,240 information as we could. You know, that's some advice that I offer to anybody in 350 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:03,240 the NICU experience, you know, as much as you can try, you know, to be involved. 351 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:11,240 We think it was something that really helped our daughter and helped her thrive. 352 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:19,240 But I'm a small business owner here in Austin, Texas. And so I was fortunate 353 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,240 enough to be able to change my schedule a little bit. And even my wife at work, 354 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,240 they kind of changed her schedule also. But you know, she was pumping and doing 355 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:37,240 things like that. So it was a shuffle. And it was a huge shuffle. And so if she was 356 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,240 at work, I was there first thing in the morning. I'd drop, you know, I'd go check 357 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:47,240 on her daughter or drop her off at my parents' house or what have you. And then 358 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,240 I would go straight to the hospital. And my wife would usually go to work and then 359 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,240 she would come, you know, like around 2 in the afternoon. And when she did, 360 00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:01,240 I would go to work. And afterwards when I was done, I'd come back and meet her 361 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,240 and we'd be there in the NICU for the rest of the afternoon and the evening. 362 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:12,240 Then have the grueling task of trying to leave the NICU, you know, every night. 363 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:20,240 But that was pretty much life for us, was doing that shuffle and trying to still 364 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:23,240 take care of everything at home also. 365 00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:29,240 Well, talk to me a little bit about your feelings during that time. I think, you 366 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:36,240 know, you've gotten your footing there in the NICU. And I assume knowing you, 367 00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:47,240 you were taking care of Emerson as far as being involved in her care. So talk to 368 00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:53,240 me a little bit about what does it feel like being a dad in the NICU? 369 00:34:53,240 --> 00:35:05,240 It was, I think, the first week. Definitely the first two days are the most important 370 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:13,240 and the hardest for a NICU dad. You know, those first two days, you don't know 371 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:19,240 what's going on. And even with the NICU dads that I talk to now, I see it all the 372 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:27,240 time. And that's, you almost become a zombie those first two days because you're 373 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:33,240 not sleeping. You know, a lot of times these things, like I said, happen so fast. 374 00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:37,240 It was three hours between the time I got the phone call and our daughter was 375 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:43,240 born. And just, you're trying to take care of everything. You're exhausted, 376 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:51,240 completely exhausted. And then you have the emotions and the stresses of trying 377 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:57,240 to take care of your family, your wife, your baby. I don't think a lot of times 378 00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:01,240 we have the time to deal with our emotions. I mean, you just kind of swallow 379 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:10,240 hard and put all that stuff down. And you try to just push through. And physically, 380 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:15,240 I think that might be what we have to do to make it through those first two days. 381 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:21,240 And that first week is tough too because you've done that the first two days and 382 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:29,240 now you have the rest. It catches up to you by the end of that first week. And 383 00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:36,240 just dealing with the emotions and shoving them down, they come back up too. 384 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:41,240 There's a lot of cries in the shower. There's a lot of just breakdowns and 385 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:50,240 stresses, arguments that you have out of nowhere. But it's every emotion. 386 00:36:50,240 --> 00:37:00,240 I mean, it's so hard to describe and it is so traumatic. And that's why a lot of 387 00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:05,240 NICU dads deal with PTSD and deal with these things just because of that. 388 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:11,240 And I really, I think after that first week and second week, a lot of things, 389 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,240 I don't want to say you get your groove, but you're kind of more familiar with 390 00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:22,240 everything and kind of also are able to process the emotions and what's 391 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:27,240 happening a little easier than you did because a lot of times we're not dealing 392 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:33,240 with that stuff anymore. So it's foreign to you. I'm not an emotional guy. 393 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:40,240 So the things that I was feeling or dealing with that first week, I'm familiar 394 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:49,240 with them. You're in such a vulnerable place. And I think like most men, we're 395 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:56,240 not used to being there. I know for me that was a real unfamiliar place and that 396 00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:00,240 was a big deal. 397 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:07,240 Well, what best advice do you have for dads while they're in the NICU? How do 398 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:15,240 you, not just survive, but are there tips for actually thriving in the NICU? 399 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,240 What's your best advice? 400 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:29,240 My best advice? My best advice would be just to kind of, as best as you can, 401 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:38,240 take it day by day. I always tell people now that a NICU journey or NICU stay is 402 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:46,240 a marathon. It's not a sprint. And in that also, I think you have to face 403 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:53,240 reality. I was in denial and maybe most dads get that way too. I was in for the 404 00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:59,240 short-term NICU stay. My baby's getting out of here. She's going to beat all the 405 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:05,240 odds and we're going to get out of here as fast as we can. And it just, at some 406 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:10,240 point, reality needs to set in and you need to prepare yourself that you're not 407 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:16,240 leaving there in a couple of days. It's going to be however long it needs to be. 408 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:21,240 And you need to prepare yourself for that marathon, whether physically, 409 00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:28,240 mentally, emotionally. Everyone is counting on you. And that's a NICU dad. 410 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:33,240 Your wife has to heal so she can help take care of the baby. Your family is 411 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:38,240 depending on you. The other siblings are depending on you because you're still 412 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:43,240 dads. You still have to go to work. We still need to pay for these astronomical 413 00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:47,240 medical bills that are about to hit you. Your wife needs you to help her and 414 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:53,240 make sure she's taken care of so she can help take care of the baby also. And 415 00:39:53,240 --> 00:40:00,240 it is what it is. But it's so important that you understand that role and that 416 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:05,240 you do everything that you can to help get yourself ready for that marathon. And 417 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:11,240 I think those types of things and however it's going to take you to prepare for 418 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:17,240 that. And I think finding somebody to talk to, especially after, even initially, 419 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:20,240 I think that makes a big difference. And that's what's going to set you up to be 420 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:26,240 a more successful NICU dad, which is going to help your whole family. And I 421 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,240 think it's so important to talk to somebody. And that goes for even after the 422 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:35,240 NICU. I mean, just because now we're seeing so much. It's so stressful. And the 423 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:40,240 things that we encounter and deal with on a daily basis during that NICU stay, 424 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:44,240 you're going to carry those. You're going to carry those for a long time. I mean, 425 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:49,240 I obviously can't talk about it without crying. And I'm five years later. And so 426 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:54,240 I think another discussion later on needs to be about sharing your story and 427 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:59,240 talking to somebody. But the best advice for a NICU stay, I think, is just 428 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:04,240 getting yourself prepared for that marathon, dealing with the reality of the 429 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:10,240 situation that you're in and knowing that it's not going to shorten and sweet. 430 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:15,240 And if it is, great. But prepare yourself for that long haul. 431 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:20,240 I think that's great advice. And did you ever seek any professional counseling 432 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:26,240 or reach out to a peer mentor or a friend? How did you cope? 433 00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:36,240 I didn't. And I think now being involved in what I am and doing what I do have 434 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:43,240 my eyes been opened onto some of the things that I deal with now. I see the 435 00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:49,240 benefits of talking to someone. And even if not professional, just talking to 436 00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:53,240 someone. I mean, every time I share my story or talk about this, it feels like a 437 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:59,240 weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I didn't realize it. And we get in this 438 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:05,240 primal, just, you know, free of flight mode. And you go straight to fight. And 439 00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:12,240 it's in our DNA. It's in our everything. As a dad, you're the protector. And you 440 00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:18,240 go straight to fight. And you're fighting through this whole NICU journey. And 441 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,240 you're fighting for your family. You're fighting for yourself. I mean, it's 442 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:27,240 just, it's a primal thing that's inside of us. And so a lot of times you don't 443 00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:32,240 acknowledge what you're going through. You just keep pushing through. And then 444 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:35,240 once you get home and everything gets back to normal and your baby gets better, 445 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:41,240 you never open that back up until you're willing to do that and share your story. 446 00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:45,240 And that's when it opens. And if not, that never gets dealt with. 447 00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:50,240 I think that's great. Great advice as well. So touch me a little bit about what 448 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:57,240 made you start your NICU Dad blog? How long before, how long after your NICU 449 00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,240 journey did you start that blog? 450 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:07,240 It took a few years. It really, I started it last year. We basically incubated at 451 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:11,240 home for about a year after our daughter came home. And for us, we were just, 452 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,240 we're going to do whatever it takes to not have her ever go back to the 453 00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:20,240 hospital. So we, you know, we were germaphobes, everything. During that time, 454 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:23,240 during that course of that year, we started looking at all the organizations 455 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:28,240 that helped us and we saw all the support we got in the NICU. We just wanted to 456 00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:33,240 give back. Our NICU staff was just so incredible and they all became a second 457 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:37,240 family for us. I mean, you're in there for 67 days. You're seeing these people 458 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:41,240 every day. They're taking care of your baby. They're sharing all those special 459 00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:45,240 moments for us. So we just had such a strong connection that we wanted to give 460 00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:50,240 back. So we actually started doing things for our NICU. You know, we would bring 461 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:54,240 up donations. We would have cupcakes for the NICU staff during the holidays. And 462 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:59,240 we just got very involved in our NICU. Through there, we did that, like I said, 463 00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:04,240 a year after our daughter had come home. I was asked to host a NICU Dads group 464 00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:09,240 at the NICU and speak to other NICU dads and, you know, share our stories and 465 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:14,240 what have you. But I jumped at the chance. And I'm like, oh, this is great. 466 00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:18,240 Yes, I want to do this. And so I went online and I started looking for 467 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:22,240 information. You know, I started looking at what are we going to talk about? What 468 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:26,240 are some of the things I can discuss with other NICU dads? And I jumped online 469 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:30,240 and started looking for stuff for NICU dads and there was nothing. There was 470 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:36,240 maybe a story here or a story there on some kind of parenting site or a mom's 471 00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:42,240 site or a mom's blog. NICU dads were just a mention and there really wasn't any 472 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:48,240 information out there. And it just, I couldn't believe it. And so I decided, you 473 00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:53,240 know what, this has to change. I see the NICU dads when I come up to the NICU. 474 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:58,240 I know they're there. I know what I went through and I see it in the face of 475 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:03,240 every man in here that they're going through the same thing. And so that's, I 476 00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:10,240 started the NICUdad.com as a blog and it just, for me, I mean, I don't know if it 477 00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:15,240 was therapeutic getting my story out there and seeing some of the things and 478 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:20,240 sharing some of the same experiences that other NICU dads are going through 479 00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:26,240 also. I'm starting to see a trend. More information is starting to come out and I 480 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:32,240 think now even the moms are starting to kind of see it and share information. 481 00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:39,240 Is the importance of identifying what NICU dads are going through. I'm hearing 482 00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:42,240 stories now on some of these parenting groups. I mean, and with the help of 483 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:46,240 social media, all the information is getting out there now. But I'm seeing 484 00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:51,240 wives share about how their husbands are having to be admitted into the psych 485 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:55,240 wards in some of these hospitals that they're having NICU stays in. And, you 486 00:45:55,240 --> 00:46:00,240 know, just there's such a high prevalence of anxiety already from people and then 487 00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:08,240 having them go into this situation. It's just, I'm seeing a lot of kind of 488 00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:15,240 emotional PTSD. Just, you know, NICU dads are two times more likely to suffer from 489 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:21,240 PTSD than NICU moms. And it's, I think, us having the discussion and getting the 490 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:26,240 word out and just trying to get some of these things in front of, you know, other 491 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:31,240 NICU dads' faces, at least to get them to, you know, identify maybe something 492 00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:37,240 they dealt with or just help them and just have a story to have a NICU dad that 493 00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:42,240 will help them and make it a little bit easier on their NICU stay. That's one of 494 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,240 the biggest things that I hope for this. And I hope that, you know, other NICU 495 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:51,240 dads can see that you're not by yourself. This is what we're, you know, I've gone 496 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,240 through it. And I've seen that now. And now we're seeing celebrities. Like, you 497 00:46:55,240 --> 00:47:00,240 know, we talk about, you see guys like Chris Pratt and different other 498 00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:05,240 celebrities that are, you know, have, our NICU dads, you know, have shared some of 499 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:10,240 the same experiences. And that's what I think we look to have on here. And some 500 00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:15,240 of the guests, too, that have dealt with things. And some of the people that are 501 00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:20,240 trying to do things for the NICU dad community, like Rad White in Australia. I 502 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:25,240 mean, the guy wrote a book, Enter the NICU. You know, I think right now it's 503 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:29,240 really starting to grow. I hope we can help a lot of people. 504 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:34,240 I agree. More so than ever before. We are, you know, we handhold, provide support 505 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:41,240 for families in hospitals. And hospitals are asking us to develop programs 506 00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:47,240 specifically for those dads because we know how important it is for dads to be 507 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:52,240 integrated into the care of the child. We know how hard that is for them to go 508 00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:57,240 back to work. And they're trying to, you know, financially support the family. 509 00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:04,240 But, you know, long term, we need our families graduating from the NICU, 510 00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:10,240 united and healthy, emotionally, physically, financially, ready to take 511 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:15,240 care of their babies long term. Because what you and I both know, that not all 512 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:20,240 challenges related to being preterm or having a NICU stay end when that baby 513 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:28,240 goes home. So, you know, the struggle is real. And so for us to inform and 514 00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:34,240 support dads well beyond the NICU as well. You know, my husband dealt with a 515 00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:41,240 lot of challenges and there was no diagnosis for more than 15 years. And so 516 00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:48,240 we don't want dads to suffer quietly and alone. We want them to understand there 517 00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:54,240 are risks for postpartum depression for dads of newborn healthy babies. So when 518 00:48:54,240 --> 00:49:00,240 we look at traumatic birth, it does make sense that our dads would be at risk for 519 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:08,240 anxiety disorders and PTSD following a traumatic birth and or loss of a baby. 520 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:16,240 I had an interesting discussion today with a dad whose wife unfortunately 521 00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:22,240 committed suicide from after suffering with postpartum depression. And he was 522 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:28,240 talking about having wishy understood signs and symptoms and what to look for 523 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:32,240 and how to have help. So, you know, we'll talk about some of those things too. 524 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:37,240 How do we support, how do dads support moms? How do they support moms through 525 00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:41,240 breastfeeding or not breastfeeding? Right? There's a lot of things. 526 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:46,240 You took the words right out of my mouth. Yeah, you took, that's exactly what was 527 00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:50,240 going in my head was supporting and feeding. I mean, and all those things are 528 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:55,240 so important. Yeah, it's, there's so much out there. 529 00:49:55,240 --> 00:50:00,240 Well, I think we've tapped into something exciting and hopefully our listeners 530 00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:06,240 will think so too. And I very much look forward to working with you in the coming 531 00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:15,240 months and years of producing a really informative but supportive podcast 532 00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:21,240 series. So thank you, Alex Savola, for being so open with your emotions. 533 00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:22,240 Thank you. 534 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:31,240 Being willing to share your story and being willing to step up and give back to 535 00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:36,240 those that are now walking in your shoes. You are a great man, an amazing dad, 536 00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:40,240 and we are just delighted to be partnering with you. So with that, thank 537 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:41,240 you so much. 538 00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:43,240 Thank you. Thanks for having me. 539 00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:47,240 Thank you for listening and thank you for your support. Once again, please take a 540 00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:51,240 look at the nickyudad.com. We continue to grow the list of resources we are 541 00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:57,240 bringing Nickyudads. To my fellow Nickyudads, good luck and remember, you 542 00:50:57,240 --> 00:51:02,240 are not alone.