1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,640 Now, Lizzie, we met last week for the first time properly at the City University. 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,680 They were doing a wonderful career in podcasting. 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,720 You were on the panel and we started to chat a little bit. 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,960 I wanted to get you onto PodNews for some very specific reasons. 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,680 But one of the big announcements that you made a week ago, 6 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:20,800 something called interchangeable ad slots. 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:22,880 I wanted to get you on to talk about that. 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,640 But before we do, let me just ask you two very quick questions. 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,680 Let's position what and who is ACAST. 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:30,800 I always get confused. 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,040 You're so broad and so wide. 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,480 Where do you and how do you position ACAST yourselves? 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,160 Yeah, I mean, I think we are so broad and so wide. 14 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:44,160 We have many different customer sets and we are many different things to different people. 15 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,160 So sometimes it is really hard to explain. 16 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:49,120 So if I'm down the pub and someone says, what is ACAST? 17 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,120 I tend to say, well, do you know what a podcast is? 18 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,360 And then once I know what a podcast is, I say, so we essentially host podcasts. 19 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,400 So if you have a podcast, we get it out into the world and across all the listening apps for you. 20 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,480 We help you make money through advertising and through subscriptions from fans. 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,440 And then we help you grow that show through lots of different tools and services. 22 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:12,720 So we essentially host, monetize and grow 92,000 podcasts across the world. 23 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,800 And we work with thousands of advertisers. 24 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,600 And there's pretty much not many countries in the world where we aren't present and doing that. 25 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,680 Yeah. And we'll talk about some of that shortly. 26 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,040 Who would you then say is your biggest competitor? 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,240 Well, again, by virtue of the fact that we are across so many parts of the industry, 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,080 and as everyone I'm sure knows, the industry is incredibly fragmented. 29 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,360 There's lots of different players doing lots of different parts of what we do. 30 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,920 So actually there's no one big answer to that question. 31 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,560 It entirely depends on when you're looking at hosting. 32 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,240 You know, if you are an independent podcaster, you might be looking at us. 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:47,440 You might be looking at Anchor. 34 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,440 You might be looking at Buzzsprout, Podbean. 35 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,280 Whereas if you're an advertiser looking where to spend your money, 36 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,280 it's entirely different competitors set. 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,760 You might be looking at spending, for example, in the UK on our podcast or with Global and DAX. 38 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,760 So there's no one answer to that. 39 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,760 I'm sorry, Sam, I can't encapsulate it for you. 40 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:05,520 That's fine. 41 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,680 Now, your core revenue generator is from advertising. 42 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,120 You also have Acast Plus, which is your subscription model. 43 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,040 But let's stick with the advertising first. 44 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,400 You announced this thing, as I said, called interchangeable ad slots. 45 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,720 What are interchangeable ad slots? 46 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:21,920 Absolutely. 47 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:23,680 So this is quite an involved answer. 48 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,360 But I always like to explain this if I'm talking to the person with the least knowledge in the room. 49 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,000 So forgive me, listeners, if any of this is really obvious. 50 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:36,720 So when you place adverts in podcasts, so we have the traditional, what we call adverts made by a brand. 51 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:41,520 They're typically 30 seconds long and they are put against different podcasts all around the world. 52 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,440 And then you have what podcasting is more famous for, which is a sponsorship. 53 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,560 So sometimes people call these host reads. 54 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:55,280 So that's where you think of your favourite podcaster who's talking to you about the brand in question in their own voice and in their own tone. 55 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:05,040 OK, so in any one episode, you might have slots available for, let's say, at the start of an episode, you might have two slots marked for two ads, one each. 56 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,720 And then you might have a slot which is marked for one of those host read sponsorships. 57 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,320 So traditionally, that's how podcasts ads have been sold. 58 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:18,800 Actually, what we did is we innovated a way of automatically being able to detect. 59 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,280 Hang on a minute. A sponsor read hasn't been sold in that sponsor slot today. 60 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:32,400 So instead of just wasting that slot and not actually putting any message in, we can automatically convert it into an ad slot and put an ad in its place in real time. 61 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,840 So, as I say, it's incredibly involved and it's quite a niche subject. 62 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:48,640 But what it's done is it has increased our marketplace capacity, so the amount of inventory that we can sell against by over 10 percent in the last few months, which is, you know, in a marketplace as big as ours is incredibly valuable. 63 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:56,880 And it's also good for podcasters because it means they're potentially making more revenue because we are decreasing the number of slots that go unsold for them. 64 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:04,320 So that's something that is available to every podcaster on the A Class platform, or is it just available to a few of the top end? 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:11,840 No, we've been testing it with a few to make sure that it's working and it's working so well that we're now rolling it out globally across as many of our podcasters as possible. 66 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,600 They don't actually need to do anything themselves. 67 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,000 This is all sort of work on our end that we're doing to maximise those returns. 68 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,560 Now, one of the things that I have to say, the penny took a while to drop for me. 69 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,080 So I'll be very honest. 70 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:31,600 Probably two years ago, feels like somewhere in the middle of Covid, A Class announced that they were going to transcribe every podcast. 71 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,800 And at the same time, Amazon announced it and a few other people announced they were transcribing. 72 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,800 We all felt that this was a good thing for people who were hard of hearing. 73 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,760 So they could read the transcription of a podcast and I just thought that's what you were doing. 74 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,120 I thought it was very good, maybe a little expensive. 75 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:50,880 And then the penny dropped. 76 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,720 I was listening to Matt Deegan talk about it on the Future of Media. 77 00:04:54,720 --> 00:05:10,400 And suddenly somebody said, yeah, well, if you take every transcription and you can then work out that a basketball podcast categorised as basketball was talking about cars for 10 minutes for some strange reason, but they were. 78 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:17,200 You could see that within the transcription and you could place car ads around that element of the podcast. 79 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,440 And that's when the penny dropped me. 80 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,640 So is that how you were aiming for conversational targeting when you started? 81 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,680 What was the thinking behind it from A Class side? 82 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:28,800 Yeah, absolutely. 83 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,400 So there's a few things behind it. 84 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,560 First of all, everyone knows that in advertising context is queen. 85 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:46,720 And as A Class, one of the biggest tenets that we hold dear is we want to always ensure that the listening experience for listeners and the experience for podcasters and for advertisers is as great and authentic as possible. 86 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:52,080 So when you bring context into podcast advertising, it becomes incredibly powerful. 87 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:52,800 So you're right. 88 00:05:52,800 --> 00:06:02,720 So in transcribing hundreds and thousands of podcast episodes, our data scientists got to work and suddenly the opportunity for advertisers to capitalise on that was really clear. 89 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:11,600 So what we've done is we've launched a suite of targeting capabilities for advertisers, which we put under the conversational targeting umbrella. 90 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:22,160 And what's really exciting about that is advertisers are able to target individual conversations on an episode level and get really granular in where their adverts are appearing. 91 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:27,680 So traditionally, podcasters categorised into different categories depending on the topic of the show. 92 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,240 So if you have a podcast, let's take Off Menu. 93 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:40,520 You know, Off Menu, one of the UK's biggest podcasts hosted by two comedians, Ed Gamble and James Acaster, two brilliant comedians, I may say, where they get a celebrity on to talk about their dream meal. 94 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:46,320 So essentially, that is a category classified as a food podcast and a comedy podcast. 95 00:06:46,320 --> 00:07:01,960 But actually, once you analyse the conversations happening within episodes, the topics that they touch on are so broad that suddenly this opens up that podcast, a whole new spate of advertisers who might traditionally not necessarily consider Off Menu on their hit list. 96 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,960 So the first thing that we launched was IAB category targeting. 97 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:17,200 So the IAB, one of the great pillars of the podcasting industry around the world, has different categories of subjects which they label a common taxonomy, which helps us all play in the same sort of playing field. 98 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,880 So they have different categories which they can assign to podcasts. 99 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:26,800 So the first instance, what we've been doing is we transcribe hundreds and thousands of episodes using transcription technology. 100 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:37,200 Then we use NLP, so natural language processing tech, so things like IBM Watson, also AWS Comprehend, to extract all the metadata from those transcriptions. 101 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:46,800 And then that can match those with different IAB content categories to therefore actually classify individual episodes of podcasts in different categories. 102 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,080 So this might all sound quite sort of like top line and theory based. 103 00:07:50,080 --> 00:08:02,600 So if I give you a very real example, so last week Off Menu, which is, as we know, a comedy and a food podcast, they had on the best actress in the world today, Florence Pugh, picking her dream meal. 104 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,000 And of course, there was a lot of conversation about food. 105 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,560 There was a lot of comedy. There was a lot of jokes happening. 106 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,320 But naturally, being an actress, she spoke a lot about film. 107 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:15,200 She spoke a lot about different movies that she's shot, working with different directors. 108 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:25,280 So actually using IAB category targeting, that episode can be identified as being potentially interesting to film fans, movie fans, and also film and movie brands. 109 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:37,800 So actually, whereas before we might have just assumed that we'd want to place advertisers targeting food and comedy subjects, we can actually open that up by instantly perhaps serving a Netflix ad or Amazon Prime or for a movie. 110 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,000 So that was really exciting. And that was the first stage in conversational targeting. 111 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Yeah. And I think that's very cool. 112 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,200 The other thing you announced, though, was something called keyword targeting. 113 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:53,440 And again, I was just trying to understand what's the difference between keyword targeting and conversational targeting? 114 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,080 Yeah. So keyword is even more granular. 115 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:02,040 So as the name suggests, we're actually looking at individual keywords that are mentioned within an episode. 116 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:09,120 And a keyword could be just a word like hot or weather or tea, but it could also be an entity. 117 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,080 So it could be a person or a brand. 118 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:23,080 So then what you can do is you can actually target advertisers can actually target mentions of individual words within episodes so they can get even more granular if there's a particular topic in question they want to target. 119 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:28,400 So actually, by way of example, again, if we carry on with the episode of Off Menu from last week. 120 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:34,760 So another part of the conversation, Florence happened to talk about a birthday present that she bought for her grandmother. 121 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:41,160 So actually, if you were, let's say, a moon pig or a funky pigeon dot com, other birthday card brands are available. 122 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:49,280 You might actually want to buy out mentions keywords of birthday, for example, because at that moment in time, birthdays are top of mind. 123 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,880 Maybe you're thinking, oh, it's my dad's birthday next week. 124 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:59,000 What am I going to buy? Lo and behold, a beautiful advert for a birthday card provider is probably going to make you more likely to convert. 125 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:04,000 So to I.B. category targeting and keyword targeting, they're both parts of conversational targeting. 126 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,400 They're slightly different, but they both have their uses. 127 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:16,440 So I would say that category targeting allows for more reach, sort of broader targeting, because if you think about it, there's going to be lots of conversations around particular topics. 128 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,400 So brands can go really wide in their targeting in that. 129 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,880 But then with keyword, if they layer on keyword as well, they can get incredibly specific around individual words. 130 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:33,920 So I think it's just really exciting that the thing that I would say in general about conversational targeting and looking at this episode level targeting in general is 131 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:39,280 as you and I both know, the podcasting industry is still so young compared to other industries. 132 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,920 And so the potential is incredibly exciting. 133 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,000 We still don't know what we don't know. 134 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:52,480 And we could actually probably just sit here right now and thinking, OK, well, if we have this at our fingertips in terms of transcription, AI, NLP, we could do this. 135 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,080 So what about if we tried doing this? 136 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:59,600 And so that's what our data science teams and our tech teams around the world are sort of working on every single day. 137 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,880 Now, you've also recently launched a self-serve platform for podcast advertising. 138 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,520 Tell me more about that. 139 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:21,360 Yeah. So in the olden days, she says, a few years ago, I'm obviously joking, but previously to spend money on podcasts, the way it's previously been done and is still currently done with a lot of big brands is through media agencies and working with our sales teams. 140 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:22,480 And that's worked incredibly well. 141 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,520 It continues to work incredibly well. 142 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:39,280 But actually, what we've been able to do is open up podcast advertising to a whole new subset of brands, smaller brands, small businesses, SMBs, SMEs, as people call them, who can actually have access to our advertising platform themselves. 143 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,480 They can log in. 144 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:45,000 They can start a podcast campaign for as little as two hundred and fifty dollars. 145 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,600 They can choose their targeting. 146 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,640 They upload their own audio creative. 147 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:49,680 They set their parameters. 148 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:51,480 They hit play and away they go. 149 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,720 And they can set up their own advertising campaign in as little as 15 minutes. 150 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:01,080 So it's really democratizing podcast advertising for anyone, anywhere to use. 151 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,400 And there's also we're seeing a big use case as well from podcasts themselves. 152 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,400 We know podcast advertising is effective. 153 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,400 We also know that you're using it as a channel to grow your own podcast is effective. 154 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:20,400 So we're actually seeing a lot of podcasters using our self-serve advertising tool to advertise to other podcast listeners and grow their own shows. 155 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:26,160 So, again, it's incredibly exciting and we're seeing a lot of demand from it, particularly in the US. 156 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,920 Now, talking about US, talking about countries, recently you launched in Spain. 157 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:39,800 You also had Megan Davis, your international M.D. at Acas, saying that Italy was very important to them in 2023. 158 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,040 So have you launched in Italy yet? 159 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,200 What's Spain like? 160 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,720 And tell me more about your internationalization plans. 161 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:55,640 Yeah, so one of the beauties of the Acas model is that we can be present in many countries without actually having to have boots on the ground. 162 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:08,400 So our tech platform, the expertise that we have means that where we see demand and demand generally means where podcast listening is growing and there is demand from listeners to listen to podcasts, then the advertisers tend to follow. 163 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,200 So our international team, Megan and her brilliant team, have been monitoring that demand over the last few years. 164 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,640 And where we see it, we've been signing up podcasts to work with us. 165 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:21,240 So in Italy, in Spain, we now have a presence in Singapore as well. 166 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:31,200 And we've started signing and monetizing shows in those regions, which is brilliant because, first of all, obviously, it allows us to work with advertisers in new regions, new countries. 167 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:40,560 But it also expands our international reach for, let's say, our podcasts in the US or the UK, who might have listens in those regions where we can also monetize them there. 168 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:46,600 So it's great that we have that agility to be able to speak to that demand wherever it is. 169 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,120 Yeah, you were talking about actually your growth in Asia. 170 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,560 Tell me more about Asia, because that sounds like a really exciting opportunity for Acas. 171 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:59,920 Yeah, I mean, it's another place, as you say, that podcast listening is just growing exponentially. 172 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,240 So we launched last year. 173 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:11,760 I think we saw a 21% increase in monthly lessons across Singapore, Hong Kong, Philippines, Indonesia in about six months at the back end of last year. 174 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:19,720 So now we're working with some of the biggest podcasters down there and then in turn matching them with some of the most important advertisers in the region. 175 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:24,440 And it's just so exciting to just see we are in quite mature markets. 176 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,560 Podcasting has been around in the UK forever and has been very popular forever. 177 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:34,640 And so it's so exciting to see where other regions are going through that same journey we have and the demand is exploding. 178 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,840 So, Lizzie, that's great news about the growth in the Far East. 179 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,680 But I want to come back closer to home. 180 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:45,080 Last week, you announced something called the Acast Amplifier in Ireland. 181 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,040 Tell me more about what that program's about. 182 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:57,400 Yeah, so Acast Amplifier is essentially our incubator program to discover and supercharge new podcasting talent, which we do for a number of reasons. 183 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:06,000 One, because we truly believe that there is so much great podcasting talent out there which just needs that push to get started and in some time support as well. 184 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,320 And because we want to ensure our network is full of as many different voices as possible. 185 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,640 So we first launched this last year in the UK. 186 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,120 It was incredibly successful for us. 187 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,000 And what happens is anyone who doesn't currently have a podcast can apply. 188 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:25,920 They can submit their idea, which is then judged by a panel of judges of some of our most well-respected podcasters in the market. 189 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:33,040 And then the lucky winners, their podcast gets made, they receive a grant, they receive coaching, consultation from us and so on and so forth. 190 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:41,280 So it was an incredible success in the UK with the podcast that won that called Memories from the Dance Floor, which I recommend you all check out, which is doing incredibly well. 191 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,480 So we have now launched that in Ireland. 192 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,120 So Ireland has long been a very important and successful market for us. 193 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:52,320 We work with many of the biggest podcasts, most popular and successful podcasts over there. 194 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,840 So we thought it was time to discover some new talent. 195 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:01,360 So we've launched Acast Amplifier in Ireland, which is now open if anyone is listening and has an idea and is based in Ireland. 196 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,200 I think the applications are open for a few more weeks yet. 197 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:13,080 And yeah, they could see their show being made, as I say, receive that grant, get all the coaching that they need, receive actual materials as well, equipment from people like Shure. 198 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,920 I'm using one of their microphones today and Focusrite. 199 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,800 So yeah, we really believe in supporting and nurturing new talent wherever we can. 200 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,720 And I'm excited actually to hopefully do this in a few other of our regions as well once we've done it in Ireland. 201 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,840 Yeah, I'm just thinking of all the places we've talked about, it seems very North Hemisphere. 202 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,840 Do you do much in Australia and South America? 203 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:33,920 Yes, absolutely. 204 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,480 Australia is one of our oldest and most successful markets. 205 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:43,320 I'm sure Australia is so unique as a region and the team down there have made amazing strides. 206 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,160 They work with all different kinds of podcasters, publishers. 207 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,760 The advertising scene is booming down there. 208 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,960 So, yeah, it's long been a really strong market for us. 209 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,640 The same in New Zealand actually, New Zealand has a real blossoming scene as well. 210 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,880 So we have representation down there as well. 211 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,040 And the same in South America. 212 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,040 We've been in Mexico for a few years now. 213 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,400 We have many lessons across the region, which we monetize. 214 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,760 We have a lot of listening happening. 215 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,040 So that's also seen a lot of growth. 216 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,840 So the short answer is yes. 217 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,800 Now, Lizzie, we mentioned a little while back about Acos Plus and we haven't really touched on that. 218 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,960 Now, one of your most popular shows is Shag, Married and Oid. 219 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:25,440 Last year, you launched bonus content and exclusive benefits using Acos Plus. 220 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,120 Is that something you're going to be doing more with some of your top end slate podcasts? 221 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,560 Or was that just a touch and see what subscription looks like? 222 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,520 No, absolutely. So we launched Acos Plus a few years ago. 223 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,240 I'd say, was it last year? I don't know. 224 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,400 The years merge into one. 225 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,360 But this is because we believe in helping our podcasters make money in whatever way suits them. 226 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:47,080 Advertising is perfect for many podcasts. 227 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:53,040 But you know what, there are some podcasts that prefer either not to have adverts or it doesn't suit their show. 228 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,560 And actually, they have very loyal followings who actively want to support them and will pay, 229 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:02,560 will support them financially and will pay for things like being able to access bonus content 230 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,320 or in some cases, if they do take ads to listen ad free. 231 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:11,840 And so in line with what is happening across a lot of the industry, subscriptions are really becoming such a big thing. 232 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:18,680 So Acos Plus allows podcasts to, as I say, offer ad free listening, bonus content, 233 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,640 special sort of one off series and so on and so forth. 234 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,360 And it's just a way for podcasters to diversify their income streams. 235 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,240 And we actually have some of our biggest podcasters around the world. 236 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:36,320 You mentioned Shag Mara and Noid, who have a bonus segment called Extra Extra every week for their subscribers. 237 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,360 Mark Marron, one of the biggest and most established podcasters in the world. 238 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,880 He has WTF Plus as well. 239 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,000 One of the most successful Acos Plus we've had is in Ireland with Tommy Hector and Loretta. 240 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:53,920 And they're doing really well because, as I say, listeners often recognise that actually you get most podcasts for free. 241 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,840 And we're very lucky that ad supported model like podcasting means you're accessing brilliant content for free, 242 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:04,600 but often they do want to support and they actually are willing to pay for either extra content or perks. 243 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,560 So it's doing really well. 244 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,960 We rolled it out across all of our markets. 245 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,240 And we're seeing some podcasters have real success from it. 246 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,320 So, yeah, we're continuing to innovate with it. 247 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,400 We're continuing to support it. 248 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,680 And now I'm excited to see where it can go. 249 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,720 Yeah, I think subscription is something that yourselves, Apple, Spotify are pushing very hard. 250 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:32,600 One of my biggest bug bears, and I don't know if you have an answer to this really, is why do consumers have the perception that podcasting should be free? 251 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,440 We pay for music. We pay for films. We pay for books. 252 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:43,560 But there is this old conception in the marketplace that, oh, yeah, it's just somebody behind the mic and clearly it's free. 253 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,200 Why do I have to pay for podcasting? 254 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,800 Do you have any thoughts? 255 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,000 I mean, I've not actually really thought about it in depth before, 256 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,560 other than having to hold myself back when I see people moaning about podcast ads on Twitter. 257 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,920 And I just want to say some more, do you realise you're getting this for free? 258 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,600 And actually, but no, I do wonder if it's something to do with radio. 259 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,000 So you grow up listening to the radio, you turn on the radio, it's a sense to be free. 260 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:11,280 Yes, hopefully your parents would have paid for a license if you listen to BBC radio in the UK. 261 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,960 But I wonder if it's a hangover from radio times. 262 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:21,160 I never used to have to listen to, sorry, pay to listen to Jeff Lloyd and Annabel Port on the Virgin drive time show. 263 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,760 And many people see podcasting as being born out of radio. 264 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:34,840 So I do wonder if it's a hangover from that, because, of course, these people will spend hours watching YouTube videos and not think twice about the ads that they're getting in between if they haven't paid for premium. 265 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,680 So it's interesting, but I do think the tide is turning. 266 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:48,280 I think as podcasting grows and as podcasting becomes even more mainstream, I hate it when people say podcasting has just become mainstream, but as it becomes even more mainstream, 267 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,720 I do think that people are beginning to understand a bit about the industry and it's becoming even more professionalised. 268 00:20:53,720 --> 00:21:03,760 Right. So actually, podcasting content nowadays is incredibly professional, much higher quality because people have learned how to make great podcasts. 269 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,680 So I'm thinking the tide is turning, but I do wonder if it's something to do with radio. 270 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,200 What do you think? 271 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:16,680 Well, I really wish Spotify would be honest and had charged additionally for podcasting. 272 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:22,200 So the 9.99, 14.99 for music, family subscription. 273 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:28,000 I wish they'd said, and if you want podcasting, it's another 3.99 or 4.99 or whatever it would have been. 274 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:38,160 That would have then made podcasting seen as having value because I sometimes suspect I know my daughter uses the family Spotify and then just sees, 275 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:46,360 oh, you've just added podcasting. Oh, well, that's just another thing that's been added and had no perception of the value that podcasting brought to Spotify. 276 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,760 And so I really wish Spotify had done something with it. 277 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:53,840 And Apple, certainly the biggest behemoth in the market, can change perception overnight. 278 00:21:53,840 --> 00:22:02,400 I mean, if Apple just suddenly turned around as they do with Apple Music and just simply said all podcasting now is 1.99 or 3.99, it would just change perception. 279 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,560 Now, what would that do for an embryonic industry that's trying to grow its audience? 280 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:13,720 Would that kill the marketplace where people go, oh, well, I can't be bothered to pay. I'll go and do something else. 281 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:19,360 I don't know where we are in that balance. Are we too soon to turn on the payment tap? 282 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:30,520 But I do think that at some point, the big players, yourselves included, need to make that a perception to the user that this isn't free and that there is value. 283 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:38,160 And as you said, high quality content is being produced, which is very different to what is produced on anchor with somebody with a mic in their bedroom. 284 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:46,640 But I think, you know, WTF and Shag Married and OID are put in the same box sometimes as the one man band who's editing it themselves. 285 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:52,960 And there is no perceived difference in value by the consumer because they're consuming it for free every time. 286 00:22:52,960 --> 00:23:01,560 Yeah, I'm not sure I entirely agree with you in the sense that I think that if you just look at the stats in terms of listenership growing, 287 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:07,480 the money that has been flowing into the space from advertisers and also from in terms of production, 288 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,280 I think the perception of podcasting is definitely different now to what it was five years ago. 289 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:19,240 And I also think that, you know, RCA always likes to use a phrase, a rising tide lifts all boats. 290 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:26,120 So actually, I think that I think it's beautiful that a Shag Married and OID can exist in the same podcast feed. 291 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:31,960 If I open my podcast app next to a podcast I listen to, which is called Big Boys Don't Cry, 292 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:38,040 which is to chaps who talk about romantic movies every week, who they're not celebrities. 293 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:44,640 And I found them quite by chance, but I've become just as hooked on their podcasts as I am, let's say, Shag Married and OID or anything else I listen to. 294 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:52,280 And I think that our industry is so beautiful in that way in that it can really code switch from the big high value names, 295 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:58,040 the big advertisers right through to people who simply want to make something about something they love. 296 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:03,360 I'm not sure this is actually answering your original question, but I'm saying that I do think that the perception value is changing. 297 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:09,600 I think audiences are understanding more. There's a quid pro quo, which is why things like Acas Plus are valuable, 298 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,760 because people I think are starting to get that, OK, I can listen to this podcast with ads, 299 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:22,320 but if I really don't want to, I can pay £99p, £2, £3 a month and get it without ads because I recognise the work that's been put into it. 300 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:30,040 So I think as Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart would say in The Rest is Politics, I think I would agree to disagree with you. 301 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,760 OK, let's move on to last couple of points. 302 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,880 You did a deal with Amazon Music talking about removing ads. 303 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:43,200 You took out thousands of ads from your podcast and did a rev share with Amazon. 304 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,680 What was that all about? 305 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:50,600 Yeah, so as I said earlier, we are always looking at different ways to generate revenue for our creators. 306 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:56,120 So it might be through advertising, it might be through Acas Plus, ad free listening, and it might be a hybrid of the two. 307 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,120 So this was something that Amazon wanted to do. 308 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:03,320 They wanted to work with a few thousand of our podcasters to be able to deliver those podcasts, 309 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:12,400 ad free to their subscribers on their own podcast app, which is great because it's another way that we are ensuring that we can secure revenue of creators in a different way. 310 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:23,160 And I think, again, like I've said before, our industry is so young that it's really exciting that we can experiment and we can open up these new pathways all the time for revenue generation. 311 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:28,720 And this was just another one of those which has worked incredibly well for Amazon and incredibly well for us. 312 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,840 So, yeah, long may it continue. 313 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:40,960 I think it's important that we continue to innovate and make sure that this industry can stay as sustainable and evolving as brilliantly as it is. 314 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,760 Yeah. And talking about the industry, final point then, you announced or it was announced last week, 315 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:53,200 the launch of the podcast standards project and Acas were one of the named partners in that. 316 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,960 What is that to you guys? 317 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,480 Yeah. So Acas has long been advocates of what we call open podcasting. 318 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:07,320 So we believe anyone should be able to listen to any podcast on any app and also therefore those podcasters be able to monetize across any listening app. 319 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:13,360 So we founded an RSS technology that is very much what we support and what we champion every single day. 320 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:19,760 So when this working group was first talked about at, I think it was a podcast movement in Dallas last year, of course, 321 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:26,200 that's something we want to be part of because we want to supercharge the open podcasting ecosystem for everybody. 322 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:36,480 So when our smart partners, but also in some cases, competitors all want to come together to find a way to ensure that open podcasting remains open and remains strong, 323 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,280 that's naturally something we want to be a part of. 324 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:43,800 So we're in that working group alongside, as you talked about last week, the different app to different hosting platforms. 325 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:52,720 And again, it's something I'm really looking forward to seeing how that develops and the strength in numbers that we can put together to evolve open podcasting for as long as it makes sense. 326 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,400 And I'd like to thank you as well. 327 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,760 James and I are putting together a series of networking events for the industry. 328 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:07,000 These are B2B events called PodNews Live, Manchester and London, the first we announced and also Drinks in London at the podcast show. 329 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,200 Thank you to Acast, who are one of the sponsors of that. 330 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,600 So thank you very much, Lizzie. 331 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,320 It came through your team anyway, if you're not aware of it. 332 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,960 But thank you very much. 333 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,960 Hey, I'm aware of it. 334 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,200 And there's two things I like, which people can probably tell is I like talking about podcasts, so happy to be involved in those events. 335 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,920 And I also like drinking with podcast people. 336 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,520 So more than happy to be involved in your drinks as well. 337 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,000 Thank you, Lizzie. Look, Acast doing amazing things so far. 338 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,880 What's the rest of 23 looking like? 339 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,080 Is there anything that we should be looking forward for Acast? 340 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:43,720 Yeah, I mean, as we touch on during this chat, we're going to be continuing to innovate, particularly when it comes to our advertising, our marketplace capabilities. 341 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,560 Programmatic, we haven't talked about in detail here, but it is a big thing for us. 342 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,960 And I'm really excited to see how that continues to develop lots more brilliant podcast signings. 343 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,920 In fact, there's one we're about to announce today, which is a big deal. 344 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:05,000 We're announcing today that we're partnering with Higher Ground for podcast ads, distribution and sales, which is, of course, the production company founded by Michelle and Barack Obama. 345 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,760 So has Michelle Obama's podcast, The Conversations Between Barack and Bruce Springsteen. 346 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,040 And that's really exciting for us. So they're going out in the open ecosystem and working with us on that. 347 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,600 And again, we don't know what we don't know. So who knows in three months time what we'll be announcing. 348 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,800 All I would say is stand by and continue to read pod news and listen to this podcast. 349 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,240 Look at that on message. 350 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,800 On message every time. Now, that does just bring me to a very quick question. 351 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:37,080 Exclusives. Is that an exclusive to your platform? Are they now going to be only on your platform? 352 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,480 Or going back to what you're saying about the open RSS nature, are they going to be available everywhere? 353 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,320 Actually, that's a good point, because when we say exclusive, it means different to what other partners in the industry might mean exclusive. 354 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:53,400 All we mean is we have the exclusive rights to distribute and sell that that put those podcasts for advertising. 355 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,320 Usually that's what an exclusive deal means. 356 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:04,560 Whereas, of course, our podcasts are available and are monetized wherever you listen, whether you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify or Google podcasts or Pocket Casts or anywhere else. 357 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,760 Which is the beauty of Acast. 358 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,720 There you go. Lizzy Pollard. 359 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,280 Thank you so much for your time. 360 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440 Thank you, Sam. See you later. 361 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:25,960 Bye.