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And thank you, Peter Rad for that opening jingle.

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Check out Peter's work at RadTunes.com.

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That's R-A-D-D, tunes.com.

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And we're back for another episode of Podcasting for Radio Dummies after the one week break

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for Thanksgiving.

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This is episode number 16.

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Our final episode of season number one.

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My name is Ed Ryan, editor of Radio Wink Magazine.

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And our goal with Podcasting for Radio Dummies is to make you a better podcaster by interviewing

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the experts in the space.

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Right now we are live on Spreaker.

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And if you're listening on Spreaker, we also have a chat box that you can log into and

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ask questions of our guests today if you'd like to.

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We are on the Radio Wink website.

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Well, you'll find a player behind the Podcasting for Radio Dummies logo on the right side of

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the page.

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We're on the Apple Podcast app.

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And of course, we're on iHeartRadio.

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All shows are immediately archived on RadioWink.com and the Apple Podcast app as well as Spreaker.

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Our guest today is Andrew Olloman, the founder of PodcastGuests.com.

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Both Andrew and his wife are podcasters.

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He says one of his biggest challenges was finding great guests.

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And that's why he created PodcastGuests.com.

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Andrew, thanks for coming on the show.

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My pleasure.

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Thank you for having me.

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So how did you get into podcasting?

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Let's start with that question.

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Sure.

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I've been in podcasting, I guess you call it maybe four years now on this run.

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I was doing it before I think we had generally called it podcasting.

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But I run a blog about the domain name industry called DomainNameWire.com.

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And I saw that more and more people were interested in spoken word content.

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And it was a neat way to really go in depth with people that I couldn't do through written

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stories.

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So I started a podcast.

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And it's a niche.

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It's not a huge podcast.

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But my wife also has, she has a much more successful podcast.

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And so the combination of those things really got me interested in podcasting and learning

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more about it.

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So when you launched, how did you do it?

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What was your equipment set up and your hosting service?

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How did you get everything off the ground four years ago?

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Sure.

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So one of the things, I really over thought it, which is kind of a recommendation I have

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for people not to do.

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But I set up, I rent a room from a friend, rent an office from a friend who has a small

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office building.

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And he was interested in getting into podcasting too.

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So we worked together to create a little studio room, so we put some sound dampening equipment

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on the walls and such.

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So yeah, really overdid it.

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But just a basic ATR mic, you know, $100 mic in a cradle.

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And then I used Libsyn for hosting, started there and continue to use them.

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And the other thing I did, of course, I had some podcasts cover art made.

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I also had someone do an intro for me, like a spoken word.

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I've actually nixed that since then.

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And when I say I over thought it, I think that a lot of people, if they try to replicate

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that sort of setup, it's a lot of work.

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Whereas really, when my wife started her podcast, she's like, okay, I'm going to go into our

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walk in closet where their clothes that absorb the sound and I'm going to record my podcast

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in there.

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And she really just started that way and hers is very successful.

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So I think a lot of people look at the things you have to do to start a podcast, which let's

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face it is more than starting a blog.

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And if you add too many things to that list, it becomes really too difficult to get started

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and you can kind of run into kind of a paralysis and not actually get off the ground.

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What is the name of your wife's podcast?

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Hers is the Internet of Things podcast.

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It's on, of course, all the major services, but it's also at iotpodcast.com.

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So what is the things that she talks about on the Internet of Things?

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So things like the Amazon Echo or Amazon Alexa, as some people refer to it, basically connected

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devices, any sort of device that's connected to the Internet or connected to other devices.

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And hers is it gets about 25,000 downloads per episode, whereas mine is maybe more like

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a thousand because there aren't that many people in the world interested in domain names.

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Gotcha.

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Well, that's a lot.

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So when you first started, how did it go?

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How were the first few?

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It went well.

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Another thing I did was I did outsource editing because I tried for 10 hours to figure out

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how to edit and then I decided it wasn't worth my time.

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So it was it was fairly good.

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My model was, hey, I'm going to go through some of the news I've written about in the

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past week about domain names and then I will add I'll have an interview segment, which,

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of course, is a very common platform, much like this show.

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And it went well.

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It went well for a long time.

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I'd say the first 40 or 50 episodes, I really tapped my Rolodex to find guests that I knew

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personally or knew from the industry.

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And then it started to get to a point where it's like, OK, what's next?

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I've interviewed the people I know.

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How do I find some new and interesting guests for my show?

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And so how did you do that?

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Did you pivot to something different or rehash some older interviews or change all completely?

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Well, that's kind of where podcast guests dot com came into the picture.

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So I started to look around for a service that would help me find new and interesting

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guests for the podcast.

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But since I'm in a niche, it was still kind of difficult.

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So there were some services out there that do connect you.

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They're kind of I call them do it for me services where they find guests for you.

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They charge you anywhere from, say, five hundred dollars to a thousand dollars a month to book

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your your guests for your show to reach out and find them.

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I wanted something that was more a do it yourself platform where I could go find these potential

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guest experts for my show that wasn't quite so hands on and quite so expensive.

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And that's where I came came across the idea or came up with the idea to launch this service.

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So how did you get it off the ground?

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I did it very simple at first.

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So I modeled it a little bit off of help a reporter out, which some people know is is

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Haro or Haro, which is a service where PR actually excuse me, journalists can post,

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hey, I'm looking for someone with this expertise or this experience.

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Let me know if you know someone.

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So a journalist could say, I'm looking for someone who has a mortgage where it was difficult

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to get the mortgage close, something like that.

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They're working on personal finance story or I'm looking for someone who's an expert

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in artificial intelligence.

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And so that was basically it still is, although it's enhanced a little bit.

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It's a daily email that says this is what we're looking for.

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And if you're interested, you you can respond to it.

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And so I modeled it off of that.

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I just set up an email account at MailChimp and created people that were podcasters to

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sign up and said, hey, what are you looking for?

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What do you want as a guest on your show?

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What qualifications do you have?

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And then I list those in the newsletter and send it out to the subscribers.

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And at first it was mostly podcasters on the list.

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But of course, podcasters like to be guests on on other podcasts.

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It's a great way to grow their show and started out with, you know, 100, 200 people.

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And even at that, I was making some great matches.

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Some people, you know, even with those few numbers, they maybe get 10 interested parties

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that were would be good guests for their show.

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And then it's really exploded from there.

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I now have over eight thousand people using the service.

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It's a combination of podcasters and people that are really experts in some particular

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field.

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So authors, speakers, business owners, you name it, that use the service.

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So who pays the fee?

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Which side is paying the fee?

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So everyone can use it for free if they want.

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And what that free service is, is each week I feature a handful of experts in the newsletter,

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as well as six podcasts that are looking for guests.

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So if you want to get booked on a podcast, you can say, hey, oh, here's here's one

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of the podcasts this week.

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They're looking for experts in golf.

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Well, I'm a golf expert.

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I'll submit myself to this.

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The paid component is that if you want podcasters to come to you and invite you on their podcast,

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you can create a one sheet and a profile in my directory, which has, I think, now a little

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over 200 people in it.

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And from that side, you pay a monthly fee, you get a nice mobile friendly search engine

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friendly directory listing, which doubles as a one sheet, which I don't know if you've

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talked about that on your show in the past, but essentially a pitch page for you as an

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expert what your interests are, what your expertise are, some sample questions that

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people can ask you.

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And then that way, podcasters that are looking for guests can look through the directory,

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find people and invite them directly.

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So podcasters never pay, to answer your question.

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Experts can optionally pay.

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So do they see the value in that?

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Okay, I'm going to get on this show.

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It's worth the fee to pay to Andrew because I'm going to sell some product on this podcast.

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Sometimes yes, sell some product, but I encourage people not to be at direct, right?

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First and foremost, your goal as a guest on a podcast should be to add value to that podcast

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in this audience.

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If you go around just pitching a product, then people will eventually stop inviting

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you, right?

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Because they don't want to give you a 30 minute infomercial.

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So how can you add value to that podcast?

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And I would say that people from a couple different, the guest expert want a few different

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things.

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They want the notoriety.

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They want people to know about them.

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At a minimum, they're going to mention, hey, go check out my website or here's what my

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book is about.

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A lot of the times though, it's podcasters and a podcaster doesn't necessarily have

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something to sell other than their own podcast.

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I think being a guest on podcasts is the number one way to grow your own podcast because everyone

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who's listening is a podcast listener, right?

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And so they're in an app or they're online listening to a podcast and if you add enough

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value to that person's day through the podcast you're on, they're likely to check out your

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podcast and subscribe to it.

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Gotcha.

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So what is the most popular category that you have right now that people are requesting

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as guests?

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So I would say entrepreneurship, business, startup are by far the most common.

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And so I think if you look at any of the major podcasting platforms, you're going to see

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a lot of those as well.

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When I feature a podcast in my newsletter that's looking for people that are entrepreneurs

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or have a business experience in general, maybe CEOs, founders, that sort of thing,

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they can get up to a hundred responses from experts that want to be on their show.

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It's not always that much but I compare that to, I mentioned golf earlier.

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If it's a golf podcast, maybe five people will respond.

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There just aren't as many people out there that fit those genres, if you will.

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And so certainly things along the business side, self-help is a big category.

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Diet and nutrition is also a fairly large category.

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It kind of mirrors probably the, I don't know the exact stats on categories of podcasts

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in iTunes, but I'd say it probably closely mirrors that with a little bit of an extra

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boost to the people that are doing entrepreneurship and business podcasts because they're the

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ones that are the most, I'd say savvy generally about marketing and they understand how you

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market your podcast and how you market yourself.

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So they're out there doing it as opposed to maybe someone who has a golf podcast, who

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is really a golfer at heart and maybe not, but maybe a business person at heart.

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So how do you prevent a guest from being a dud and keep those guests from getting on

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more shows?

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Have you ever gotten feedback from podcasters that say, man, this guy you sent our way,

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he's a sleeper?

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Right.

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So first of all, the people kind of apply to be on the show.

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And so I asked them several data points about themselves.

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And one of the things that I have on the one sheets in the directory profile are what are

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some other podcasts you've been on or media appearances.

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And so the podcaster can actually go listen to a few snippets and say, oh yeah, this person's

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good or yikes, I don't want this person on my program.

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So if someone's been on a lot of good shows, that's a pretty good sign that they're good.

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But I always encourage people to go listen to a few minutes at least and make sure that

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they're coherent.

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They can speak well.

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They have a good audio setup.

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As a podcast host, you probably come across this where someone comes on your show and

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you're calling in from the airport on your cell phone or something like that.

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It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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So people that have experience being on podcasts are generally pretty good at being on other

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podcasts.

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And so that's one of the key things I think that podcasters look for and it's how you

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prevent duds from coming on your show.

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But frankly, part of the responsibility falls on the podcaster to do their due diligence

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and look into the person.

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Again, listen to at least a few minutes of a podcast they've been on.

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Listen to or read their application.

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Is it coherent?

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Are there a bunch of spelling errors in it?

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You don't need to be able to spell to talk, but it's a good sign that perhaps this person

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isn't quite as polished as what you're looking for.

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And frankly, I'd argue some podcasts aren't as polished as what some guests are looking

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for.

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I've listened to a lot of bad ones.

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So yeah.

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So is it your opinion that, kind of taking a little bit of a step back here because I

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understand fully what your website is about, but is it your opinion that you think that

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interview shows are more creative and popular than someone that's doing commentary or so?

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It's certainly so much harder to do an hour, whether you're doing a talk show or a podcast

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with nobody else to talk to.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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You get tired.

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So here's why I think most podcasts are in that format.

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One is what you just stated.

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It is, as a podcaster, man, when I do those occasional episodes where I don't have a guest

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and I'm talking for 30 minutes, I am wiped by the hand.

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And I'm sure people are bored of just hearing my voice as well.

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I think the reason we see so many that are in that format is because it helps grow.

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It's not boring, but it also helps grow your audience.

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So this podcast, for example, which is obviously live, but then turned into a podcast, I'll

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include a link to it in my newsletter and my social media and say, hey, I was on this

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podcast last week.

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Check it out.

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Right.

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So that helps grow your audience.

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And it also helps teach your audience more than just what you know.

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Right.

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So you're an expert, but getting people that know a particular aspect of podcasting or

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a particular aspect of whatever the topic is, that can be interesting.

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And it adds to the conversation.

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So I think it's kind of a self-fulfilling loop, if you will, and that having a guest

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on your podcast helps grow your audience.

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Right.

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It helps grow their audience because they're on here talking to a new audience, your audience,

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but it also helps because that person is going to promote the show to their audience.

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And in fact, one of the things I ask in the application to be on shows is what will you

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do to help promote the show that you're on?

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And so people can say, hey, I've got 30,000 social media followers that I'll pitch it

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to on Instagram or Twitter or whatever.

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I'll include it in my email newsletter.

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And I've talked to a lot of podcasters and they say a lot of times, the people that come

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on their show are all about me, me, me.

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What do I get out of being on your show?

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And what really gets them excited to have a guest on is when that person is like, hey,

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here's how I can help you.

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Here's how I can help your audience.

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Here's how I can help you as a podcaster.

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Got it.

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So how is your business growing?

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Tell us how it's gone from the beginning and is it growing every month?

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Is it growing every week?

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Tell us how it's catching on.

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Yeah, it's very stable growth, sometimes with spikes.

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And so I think I'm coming up on issue number 135 or so and it's weekly.

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So coming up on three years of using the service and it's grown very well organically by word

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of mouth.

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I've also done some advertising around it.

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And so as of this week, I think it's about 8,200 subscribers to the newsletter and around

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200 that are paying members that are paying to be in the directory as well.

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And so those are people that pay a monthly fee which helps fund the rest of it.

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To be honest, most of the money I make from the service goes back into promoting it and

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growing it which makes it better for everyone.

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And so I would say it's strong growth.

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Has it been worth it yet as an entrepreneur?

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I've learned a lot and obviously it brings in a nice or decent monthly income but it's

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a lot of work to trying to grow a service.

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And whenever you're growing what's effectively a marketplace where you have people on both

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sides, podcasters as well as people that want to be on the podcast, that's tricky to get

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off the ground because it's a chicken and an egg question.

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So you need podcasters in order to get people interested in joining the service to be a

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guest on those podcasts but then you also need guests that are looking to get on podcasts

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in order for the podcasters to be interested.

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So that was tricky at first.

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Now with over 8,000 users, I've got a good mix there and it's working well.

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I also have a very supportive advertiser who advertises each week which helps.

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And for the first 100 weeks, I was doing the newsletter completely myself.

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I've hired someone to come on and do a lot of that work in the background so that I can

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spend more time doing things like being on shows like this to talk about it and just

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answering kind of support queries that come in and really spending my time growing the

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business as well instead of or in addition to the weekly grind of putting this together.

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But it's really helped me focus on the value add stuff by having someone working on kind

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of the task, the weekly task of creating the newsletter.

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So podcasters that want to be part of it just go to the website and sign up, correct?

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Exactly.

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In fact, anyone who wants to be part of it at the free level just goes to podcastguests.com,

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enters their email address and they're signed up.

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What happens if you're a podcaster, well everyone gets an email afterward explaining

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what to do next.

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And so if you're a podcaster, it will say there will be a link to submit your podcast.

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And when you submit your podcast, you get some details about the show, how many episodes

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you published, general information about your audience, who they are, what they're interested

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in and then your qualifications.

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And you really have free reign on what your qualifications are.

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Of course, the more specific you are, the fewer responses you'll get because it eliminates

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a lot of people.

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But that's fine, right?

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If you need people who run a business with a thousand or more employees, obviously that

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eliminates a lot of potential guests.

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But if that's your goal, then by all means, you should say that that's what you need,

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right?

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So, and then you get added to a queue and the queue to be featured as a podcast in the

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newsletter, it varies from time to time.

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Sometimes it's only a month, sometimes it's six or more months.

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But that doesn't, we don't just go down the list in the order that people apply.

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We want to get a good mix of podcasts in each newsletter.

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I don't want six business ones in each newsletter.

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I want to have some variety for the people that aren't interested in business podcasts.

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So we reach out to every person, every podcaster before we feature them just to verify that

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they're ready and still looking for guests.

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And then we include them in the newsletter and we send a link to them to a Google Sheet

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where as people fill out the applications in real time, that Google Sheet becomes populated

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with every single person who's responded.

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Now by registering at the website, does that mean, let's say if I did it, would I be getting

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the newsletter automatically?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Yes, you will get the newsletter.

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The newsletter is sent out every Monday morning at 1030 Central unless it's a holiday, a major

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holiday or if I goof, which I did a couple of weeks ago.

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00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,280
I start getting these emails, where's the newsletter?

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Where's the newsletter?

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Did you forget what day it was or something?

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My assistant said, you know you scheduled this for Thanksgiving, not the Monday before

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Thanksgiving.

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I was like, yikes.

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That's not a good time to send out a newsletter.

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So every Monday morning, unless it's a major holiday, so at 1030 Central time, the newsletter

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goes out.

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And so if you sign up, it's the same sign up form if you're a podcaster or you just

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want to be a guest on podcast, but you sign up and you get the intro email, which tells

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you what to do next.

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Gotcha.

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00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:47,480
So Andrew, what is your overall opinion of the podcasting industry right now?

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So it's interesting to hear even that term podcast industry because I think a lot of

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times, I've read some articles when like Blue Apron was running into financial troubles

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and everyone's like, oh, what's going to happen to the podcast industry since they

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were sponsoring so many of them.

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I think that I look at the industry, there's an industry and then there are the creators,

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the people that are creating podcasts, the one-off people that are doing it.

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And I think it's very different.

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I think a lot of people get into it and they realize it's not as easy as they hoped it

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would be.

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And I think a lot of people get into podcasting for the wrong reason.

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I think creating a podcast with the idea that you're going to be one of the top podcasts

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and you're going to attract all these advertisers that are going to pay a lot of money is not

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the right reason to become a podcaster.

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Makes sense for some groups, venture capital groups, radio stations, radio groups, that

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makes a lot of sense.

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But for the individual that says, hey, I want to start a podcast about X, like in my case,

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domain names.

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I have advertisers but that's because I also have a blog where people advertise and my

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audience isn't big enough for a big company to say, hey, we want to advertise about our

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coffee service or something like that.

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It's just too specific.

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So I think the reason to get involved, if you're looking at it from a business perspective,

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to create a podcast is to grow your audience and your other business.

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So there are two big benefits that come out of being a podcaster if you're not going to

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have a huge audience and advertisers.

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One is that it gives you an opportunity to speak to someone who otherwise might not speak

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to you.

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So if I email the CEO of a publicly traded company and say, hey, I want to pick your

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brain, will you give me 30 minutes so I can ask you some interesting questions that I want

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to hear, he's probably not going to respond.

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But if you say, hey, I'd love to have you on my podcast, which has potential customers

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of yours or perhaps current customers of yours on it for 30 minutes and ask you some questions,

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then they're going to get interested.

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So that's one big reason to be a podcaster.

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The conversations, the introductions you get that you otherwise wouldn't be able to get.

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The other is to grow your own audience, whatever that is, whether it's on your blog, maybe

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you run a business that is related to the blog and so you can grow your audience that

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way, you can pitch your product and service gently.

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Don't make the whole podcast about it, but for example, a payroll company, someone who

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runs a payroll company that helps companies do their monthly payroll, if they just talk

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about payroll every time, every week, every day, whatever, they're not going to get a

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big audience.

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If they have a podcast about small business tips, obviously that includes people that

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are running payroll so they can get people in there and they can have a little promotion

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for it.

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But it also has a value add to those listeners that again, might be their customer as well

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or potential customer of the payroll service, but they're not listening to only learn about

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payroll, they're learning to listen about how do you deal with problem employees, how

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do you hire people, how do you handle taxes, how do you do all of this stuff.

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What is your opinion and advice on how to grow listenership in the industry as a whole?

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In the industry as a whole, I think discoverability is still a problem and I know some people

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disagree with this and say, no, if you have a good podcast, you'll get the discoverability,

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but it's not as easy as, look, I've been blogging since 2005.

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I built an audience over time, but you have search engines which people are on every day

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that help them find your show.

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Whereas we all know that iTunes, for example, is really just, the search is really just

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based on what's in your title.

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It's difficult for people to find an individual show.

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If you have brought up different topics, it's very difficult to have people find those.

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I think that's one of the challenges.

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I think one of the things the industry has done a good job with is we now have a good

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number of podcast apps which have some strengths which the Apple Podcast, I refer to it as

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iTunes, I know it's Apple Podcast, don't have.

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Apple Podcast, every time I open it up, I just shake my head at how slow it is, how

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difficult it is to find anything.

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Whereas there are some other good apps out there now that people can use that help with

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discoverability, but there's still, I think we have a long way to go there.

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If there's something we can do from a podcast search standpoint to make it so that people

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can find the deep content, like what people find on a website.

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They're searching for one specific thing usually, they find it and then they're like

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oh, this is an interesting site, maybe I'll bookmark it or if I need more information

439
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,560
I'll come back to it.

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That's what we need on podcasting and we don't have it.

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We also don't have an AdWords for podcasting that makes it easy to advertise your podcast

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on other shows.

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I think the closest thing to that is Overcast's sponsorship thing where it's really easy,

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it's self-serve, you can go sign up and you can place an ad for your podcast within the

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app essentially.

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When people are listening to podcasts or looking at your category, they can find it.

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I think those things are necessary and so any of the podcast companies listening that

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are looking at products and features and what they can implement, I think those are the

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things that we need to really help this industry continue to grow.

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00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,760
All right, we're out of time, Andrew.

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What else do you want our listeners to know about PodcastGuests.com?

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00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,200
Well, I would just say, hey, it's free so there's no risk in trying it out.

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If you go to PodcastGuests.com and sign up, you'll get your first newsletter next Monday

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00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,000
and check it out.

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If you have any feedback, if you just reply directly to that newsletter, it will come

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00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,800
directly to me.

457
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:09,800
Great.

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00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,320
Andrew, thanks so much for coming on the show today.

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We really appreciate it and we'll talk to you soon.

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00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,120
Thank you so much.

461
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,120
Okay.

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00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,040
That was Andrew Olloman, the founder of PodcastGuests.com.

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Both Andrew and his wife are podcasters and we encourage you to check out his website

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at PodcastGuests.com and sign up for the free newsletter.

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Thanks to Andrew for coming on.

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We are ending season one with Andrew as our guest.

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We're already lining up guests for season number two, which will begin in early 2019.

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If you think you have a great podcast, a great podcast story to tell and would like to be

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considered as a guest on our program, contact me directly by email at edryantheditor.gmail.com.

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That's edryantheditor.gmail.com.

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Have a great weekend everyone and a super holiday season.

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We now have 16 episodes in the can that will help you be a better podcaster.

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Just head on over to radioink.com and click on the Podcasting for Radio Dummies ad on

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the right side of the website and you'll be able to listen on all 16 or you can go to

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iHeartRadio or you can go to the Apple podcast app and search for Podcasting for Radio Dummies.

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My thanks again to Andrew Olloman for coming on and all of our guests in season one and

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of course our thanks as always to Peter Rad for opening and closing Jingle.

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Have a great weekend everybody.

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Podcasting for Radio Dummies.

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A new podcast from Radio Ink.

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With your host, Ellen.

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And we'll see you next time.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Edryantheditor.gmail.com