1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,720 We are joined today by Westwood ones podcast the editor of Westwood ones podcast network John wordoc John 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,640 Thanks so much for coming on. We appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,320 Thanks, Ed. Nice to be on with you 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,120 Seems like the the way of doing things now is some sort of remote 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:25,800 Meeting and or zoom or something like that. Will you stream yard? But nothing seems to be live anymore John 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,800 How are you doing where you are? Where are you located? 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:34,560 Well, I am actually back in Maryland. I spent a lot of time in New York, but since March 12th 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,040 I've retreated to Maryland 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,160 Right outside of DC and I've been I feel like I'm on day 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:44,960 10,000 hunkered down in my home office 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,460 Now are they loosening things up a little bit? We're in Florida. So we're seeing a little bit every couple of weeks 12 00:00:50,460 --> 00:00:52,460 How's it going by you? Yeah 13 00:00:52,460 --> 00:00:59,580 Yeah around DC. I saw the mayor of DC just said, you know, we might start opening things up later this month 14 00:01:00,380 --> 00:01:04,980 Maryland the governor has done a pretty good job but trying to be consistent, you know 15 00:01:04,980 --> 00:01:09,780 But there are large counties the county I'm in Montgomery still has a lot of cases 16 00:01:10,340 --> 00:01:16,500 So you got to pay attention to the news, right? So John, how did you get involved in podcasting? 17 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:18,500 How'd you get started in that industry? 18 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:23,560 Well, it's funny. I started in radio in high school and I worked my way through radio 19 00:01:24,340 --> 00:01:25,500 doing 20 00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:28,980 high school college even grad school doing radio and 21 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:31,700 I found myself 22 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:34,900 Working in a place what was then called CBS market watch 23 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:37,700 back in the 24 00:01:38,500 --> 00:01:42,500 2003 2004 2005 and I had a boss who said, you know 25 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:47,460 We should be taking these audio snippets and putting them on the website and then from there 26 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:50,620 State jobs that Apple came along and said, you know 27 00:01:50,780 --> 00:01:55,380 There's there's this thing called podcasting and we want to open it up and at that time 28 00:01:55,900 --> 00:02:02,580 Both the Wall Street Journal and market watch were early adopters of podcasting. This is like oh five. Oh six 29 00:02:03,260 --> 00:02:06,680 Where we were putting interviews out there and people would go what's a podcast? 30 00:02:07,540 --> 00:02:11,580 So we would have to explain and then came the financial crisis 31 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:15,980 So, you know Oh seven oh eight oh nine and people wanted more and more news 32 00:02:15,980 --> 00:02:18,740 especially financial news housing news 33 00:02:19,060 --> 00:02:23,780 So we stuck with it. We kept doing podcasts and you know, so it goes 34 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:27,100 And you joined Westwood one when? 35 00:02:28,220 --> 00:02:33,740 last year February of 2019 after being at Dow Jones and 36 00:02:34,140 --> 00:02:37,180 You know the Journal of Market Watch for about 16 years 37 00:02:37,780 --> 00:02:38,660 Got it 38 00:02:38,660 --> 00:02:45,800 So we can't start a podcasting conversation off without the news of this week because talk about keeping your listeners engaged and viewers 39 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,700 Joe Rogan is the expert at it. What did you think when you saw that deal? He signed with Spotify? I 40 00:02:52,620 --> 00:02:54,820 Well, my I guess would be w-o-w 41 00:02:56,140 --> 00:03:03,580 Capitals it's like holy smokes and the Wall Street Journal puts the the tag at around a hundred million dollars 42 00:03:03,580 --> 00:03:10,140 Which is amazing to see someone in podcasting getting that an individual person getting that 43 00:03:10,860 --> 00:03:14,740 He is a phoenom and I'm sure he deserves every penny 44 00:03:14,740 --> 00:03:20,680 But this is a really interesting tactic by Spotify to focus on a personality up to now 45 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,580 they focused on companies like Himlit and anchor and so on and now they have a 46 00:03:26,340 --> 00:03:28,420 big-time personality 47 00:03:28,420 --> 00:03:31,620 so was Joe Rogan really a podcaster because 48 00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:37,100 With so many views on YouTube and and you know, it kind of was a TV show to me 49 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:39,980 It was a TV show. I don't think I've ever listened to the podcast 50 00:03:40,940 --> 00:03:44,140 What does it mean to the podcasting industry for him not to be around? 51 00:03:44,740 --> 00:03:48,380 Well, he'll be around but you know not for him not to be free on all the platforms 52 00:03:49,420 --> 00:03:54,740 Yeah, I don't know. I think that's still an open question and right because you look at it this week 53 00:03:54,740 --> 00:04:00,260 I spent a lot of time looking at Apple top charts a lot of people do it's very addictive to go on your phone and say 54 00:04:00,260 --> 00:04:03,260 What shows doing well and he's always near the top 55 00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:08,740 so what will that mean going forward for the shakeup with the charts and I think 56 00:04:09,460 --> 00:04:14,980 Who knows that someone will always rise to fill in the gap, right? Right, right. So we'll have to see 57 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:19,260 So as a podcaster everybody wants more listeners 58 00:04:19,260 --> 00:04:26,260 They I believe they want to grow their listenership so that perhaps they can make some some more money at being a podcaster 59 00:04:26,260 --> 00:04:31,020 How do you keep listeners engaged? Let's kind of run through something that you wrote recently that we covered 60 00:04:32,220 --> 00:04:37,740 You know keeping the listeners engaged right from the start to the end is important if you want to grow your show 61 00:04:37,740 --> 00:04:41,420 So give us your first thoughts on why you put that together 62 00:04:41,420 --> 00:04:46,140 The the list of things for folks to follow to keep their listeners engaged 63 00:04:47,180 --> 00:04:50,580 And one thing we do at Westwood one is we look at audience 64 00:04:50,580 --> 00:04:55,940 Insights and provide insights to folks out there both on the radio side and the podcast side 65 00:04:55,940 --> 00:05:01,300 So I've been working on this for a while because there are more than a million podcasts out there 66 00:05:02,180 --> 00:05:08,340 Reportedly on Apple and Spotify. So how do you distinguish yourself these days? How do you get noticed? 67 00:05:08,340 --> 00:05:13,380 How do you build audience and how do you attract advertisers to generate money here? So 68 00:05:14,420 --> 00:05:17,860 Working with an editor. I came up with some ideas 69 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:24,660 Basically the first one the first strategy is if you're going to use the Apple dashboard and just to explain 70 00:05:24,660 --> 00:05:28,580 When you go on that dashboard, you can see things like time spent listen 71 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:31,300 You know time per device 72 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:36,180 And then something called average consumption or completion rate so you can see how long people are looking 73 00:05:36,660 --> 00:05:39,780 Enlisting and when you look you can see the 74 00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:44,740 The graph of the audience. It's amazing to look where the audience drops 75 00:05:44,740 --> 00:05:52,100 Out so in this piece that I've written which people can find on twitter or on my linkedin profile 76 00:05:52,820 --> 00:05:54,820 Or at westwoodone.com 77 00:05:55,460 --> 00:05:59,220 The first thing is storytelling this may sound obvious 78 00:05:59,220 --> 00:06:06,740 But if you're call and engage and you will hold your audience and as long as you can keep telling stories 79 00:06:06,980 --> 00:06:08,660 And keep doing 80 00:06:08,660 --> 00:06:13,460 Intelligent interviews and having great guests or doing interviews with great people 81 00:06:13,460 --> 00:06:15,700 Great guests or doing a great narrative 82 00:06:16,180 --> 00:06:20,100 You'll hold your audience going forward. So prepare for interviews 83 00:06:20,660 --> 00:06:26,580 Know your questions know the answers or try to anticipate them and then build your interview on that or 84 00:06:27,140 --> 00:06:31,060 If you are going to go do a narrative, you know work with your producer 85 00:06:31,220 --> 00:06:35,380 Sit down and rip through your script to see what works what doesn't and then see 86 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:40,100 How you can go from there to try to maintain your audience looking for you know points of drama 87 00:06:40,420 --> 00:06:42,820 You know, who are your main characters and things like that? 88 00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:45,540 So that that's a huge part is storytelling 89 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:52,020 The second thing is you know, yeah before you get on to number two the strategy 90 00:06:53,780 --> 00:06:57,700 How important is it for podcasters to get right into the content at the beginning? 91 00:06:58,180 --> 00:07:03,460 Of their show as opposed to again joe rogan roard lead seven eight minutes ads 92 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:10,180 Not that everybody has that many ads to read but sometimes there's some content at the beginning that you just you're rolling your eyes at 93 00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:13,380 Um, you know, they're talking about uh, you know 94 00:07:13,460 --> 00:07:18,820 Their microphone or talking about things around in the room and it just you tune into a podcast because what you see in the 95 00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:24,180 In the title or what you see in the artwork and how quickly do you need to get into the content? 96 00:07:24,820 --> 00:07:28,340 You really should get into the content quickly, uh, because 97 00:07:29,140 --> 00:07:33,140 People will tune out there are so many options. I know I do it myself 98 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:38,740 If you don't have my attention really within the first two minutes i'm gone and I will move to the next thing 99 00:07:38,740 --> 00:07:44,820 Um, and so you really have to tease your audience. You have to telegraph what's coming up in the show 100 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:51,060 Maybe play a snippet from the the guest you're going to have on, you know a sexy juicy bite 101 00:07:51,860 --> 00:07:55,540 And then make sure if you do have a pre-roll ad 102 00:07:55,940 --> 00:07:59,940 This moves to strategy point number two get creative with that, right? 103 00:08:00,020 --> 00:08:05,060 So you don't want to turn people off automatically by playing a pre-roll at the very top listen 104 00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:11,060 Joe rogan is the exception right the guy can do whatever he wants as far as i'm concerned, but the rest of us 105 00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:16,660 You know who are mere mortals have to think about how do we creatively open up the show? 106 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:21,700 Get around a pre-roll if there's a sponsorship and then go into the meat of the show 107 00:08:23,460 --> 00:08:31,460 Gotcha so, um any way to give some folks tips on creative, uh pre-roll ads should it be voice read should it be? 108 00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:35,160 Uh recorded does it really matter as long as it's creative 109 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,320 I think that will depend really on how you want to structure your show and 110 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,760 You know what content management system you're using and whether you want to use dynamic ad insertion 111 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,320 That's probably going to have to be up to you and your producer 112 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,680 and if you have a business manager to figure that out, but 113 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:54,840 My feeling is and this gets back to storytelling right energy 114 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,320 The read should be awesome 115 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:04,200 The the uh, the content the copy should be awesome. You really need to have strong copy to carry the day 116 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:08,200 Uh, and that is a huge part of all this discussion as well 117 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:12,040 Do you really know a lot of podcasters that have producers and business managers? 118 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,200 Actually, I do 119 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:15,080 Wow 120 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,680 It's amazing. What's going on here talking to folks? 121 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:25,080 Because there there are podcasters out there who will go find a producer right and say hey 122 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:30,360 I'll give you 35 an hour. Can you help me edit my piece, you know, and then help publish 123 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:38,680 And there's this cottage industry growing up, uh, especially around big cities like new york and washington and st. Francisco in la 124 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,000 in chicago 125 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,400 You know, I i'm getting off the beaten path here a little bit 126 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:49,160 But have you been watching what's been going on with barstool sports and this call her daddy podcast and 127 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,400 They've been getting so much publicity. I've never listened to an actual show 128 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:59,880 I did listen to portnoy talk about the show on the feed because now you're hooked in with all the drama and 129 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:05,160 They were even in the new york new york times yesterday, uh on uh, you know wednesday 130 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:10,360 So it just seems like that podcast is blowing up and it's not even it's not even being produced anymore 131 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,760 So how do you you can't even buy that kind of publicity? 132 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:18,760 You can't know to have the new york times cover you and you haven't published an episode, you know 133 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,800 The two girls haven't published an episode 134 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,440 So since april and look what's going on there. Yeah, what a drama. What a drama 135 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:32,280 Uh and portnoy is the master. I mean he really is to see what he's done with barstool over the last 136 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:34,680 15 years really it's amazing 137 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,000 So the third strategy you talk about is experiment. What do you mean by that? 138 00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:46,440 Well, one thing I love to do is I like to use the apple metrics to go on there and see what's hot and what's not 139 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,640 Because you can break it down by individual episodes so you can see hey 140 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,560 We just did something on mcdonnell selling a new kind of burger or hey 141 00:10:55,560 --> 00:11:00,040 We just did something on you know, how you can pay down your student debt or something, right? 142 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,560 So wow, look at that. We had really strong audience retention all the way through 143 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,960 Or look at all those downloads 144 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:13,800 We got more downloads and then you can start looking for patterns when you experiment so using the apple metrics 145 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,920 You can try to uh, look at what I would call a digital focus group, right? 146 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:27,480 To look at how certain episodes do and how well certain episodes don't do and then trying to make content strategy decisions 147 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,720 So that so you mentioned apple metrics a few times. Um 148 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:33,800 Uh, i've got a few podcasts 149 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:39,640 But i've never gone into apple to look at their metrics because I always feel like apple is so difficult to maneuver through 150 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,000 How do you get people into the apple metrics? What how do they do that? 151 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,560 well, uh, you can uh 152 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,040 Contact them i'm sure 153 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,360 And ask for a dashboard 154 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,520 Your larger content creators do have access and they do look at their own 155 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:02,520 Their own material I do it for our shows for most of our shows at westwood one 156 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,520 We have just over 40 podcasts 157 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:10,280 So I spent a lot of time going in there because at the end of the day it's about advertising, right? 158 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,280 In many ways you can have great content 159 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:17,080 but if the great content doesn't draw in advertisers, then you have an issue and 160 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,600 Uh, that's where I come in and try to look at how can we get a lot of the audience? 161 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,440 To stay right through the first mid-roll position 162 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,480 You know because mid-roll ads tend to be higher cpm, but they bring tend to bring in more revenue 163 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,240 So how can we work with the host? How can we work with the producer? 164 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:42,120 Um to try to get the audience to roll right through and when you go on to the apple metrics you can 165 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,840 You can see how long the audience is lasting 166 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,720 Are you keeping 70 of your audience or 80 or 90? 167 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,240 If you're hitting 80 or higher, I consider that a success these days 168 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,240 So should a independent podcaster work through their hosting company like libson or 169 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:05,000 Blueberry or spreeker or any of the other ones to find the stats or should they go to apple connect and try and keep an eye on that? 170 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:11,560 As well, I would approach apple directly to see what you can get from them. Uh, there's a good crew there 171 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:17,160 James bogg steve wilson lauren osan in particular to reach out to them and 172 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,800 You know listen things are heating up and podcasting right? Look at what spotify is doing 173 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,720 They're putting a lot of pressure on apple 174 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:24,200 Yeah 175 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,640 So apple in many ways has to be in the customer service business. So if you have interest in learning more about your metrics 176 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,720 You should approach apple 177 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,360 John does length of a podcast really matter? We we kind of get that question all of it all the time 178 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,600 Somebody wanted to know about short pods 179 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:46,120 Five minute shows things like that. Does it does it really matter how long your show is for it to be successful? 180 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:51,880 I think that really depends on who the host is how engaged the host is with the audience 181 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,880 And uh what the content is, right? 182 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,440 I mean these days we're all looking for tidbits of information about what's going on with coronavirus 183 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:04,520 And if you look at some of the top shows right now like the npr newscast or the fox news 184 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:12,200 Podcasts, they're all doing really well because we are looking for that five minute shot of news to keep us informed 185 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,840 But if you are looking for escapism, right? Maybe you want a 45 minute podcast for comedy 186 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,640 So I think it really depends on um, how engaging the host is and 187 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,360 What genre you're dealing with right now? 188 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:34,120 The next strategy on your list is hold the audience number four. So why don't you tell us how we can hold our audience? 189 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,760 Yeah 190 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:37,860 by 191 00:14:37,860 --> 00:14:41,720 Practicing tips one two and three, you know be a great storyteller 192 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,400 Try not to make the ads too burdensome on your list 193 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,960 Uh, try not to make the ads too burdensome on your listeners be creative 194 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:51,960 Be engaging 195 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,400 whose uh 196 00:14:53,400 --> 00:15:01,240 Passion right? That's it's all about passion and engaging and reaching beyond and and hitting that person right between the ears 197 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,680 So, uh, that's what those are some of the things you should do 198 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,400 and then with experimenting 199 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,640 What I like to do with metrics is if we tweak something how can we make it better right? 200 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,920 That's ultimately how can we grow the audience? How can we hold the audience as long as possible? 201 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:24,120 So tip number four is you know, look at the consumption rate on apple metrics 202 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,960 And some podcasts may only have 60 or 70 203 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:35,160 That's not great. I mean try to improve on that try to hit the 80 mark for many years 204 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:41,800 It was thought that 80 was the industry standard. I like to aim for 90 or higher because that means ultimate 205 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:48,040 Right. You are a hero winning the day if you can hold 90 of your audience 206 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:55,000 Whether it's a 20 minute podcast or an hour-long podcast if you can keep someone that long and keep a lot of them 207 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,480 You have a successful podcast 208 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:05,080 john, what do you think is a respectable number of downloads after somebody has 5 10 15 shows in their uh, 209 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:11,080 You know in their lineup, uh of their podcast if they're doing a weekly show, I mean, uh, 210 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:17,400 Uh, sometimes people give up after seven or eight or five or because they look at those numbers and they get depressed by it 211 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,880 So what uh, what do you think is a respectable number after you know, you start to get into a groove? 212 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:28,120 Well, yeah, we are seeing that pod fade right where people give up and they toss in the towel 213 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,000 You really got to be committed here and you got to have a game plan and when people ask me, you know 214 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,080 Should I launch a podcast? 215 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,480 I actually have a one sheet that I hand out to people here like 10 questions 216 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,720 You should be able to answer if you can't answer these questions 217 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:47,080 You should not be doing a podcast and you should not commit to doing a podcast for six to 12 months 218 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:48,520 so 219 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:54,520 You really got to be in it for the long term, right? It's uh, it's not a sprint. It's not a 40-yard dash 220 00:16:54,600 --> 00:17:00,280 It's more like a marathon plan on running 26 miles and change here folks because you're going to need 221 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,960 to uh, you know, there are going to be days when you think that oh this episode is so great and 222 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,520 And the downloads aren't there in terms of monetization. You should try 223 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,480 uh, you should really keep pushing 224 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:20,600 To 20 30 40 000 downloads per episode because that's when you're really going to start attracting advertisers 225 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,160 I think that's been the traditional threshold of trying to hit 50 000 downloads per episode 226 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:31,000 Is there a way somebody could get the uh, one sheet from you or is that something for westwood morning? 227 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:37,080 Uh, if you want to do business with us, uh, sure. Um, I don't really 228 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,560 You know, really I have to be working with a client but sure 229 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,320 If someone has a show and they want to pitch us let us know, you know 230 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,960 If you have an established audience in mr. Rogan, you know, we're listening if the 231 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:52,440 but 232 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:57,320 One thing I will say it is I talk to a lot of people who want to start podcasts 233 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,360 And my I answer emails 234 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,000 I answer phone calls and I you know when they reach out on social media 235 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,440 I tend to answer as soon as I can so if anyone's out there and they want to check just let me know 236 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,200 Are there a lot of people that are trying to start a podcast every day still? 237 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,120 Yeah, uh, you can see because what's going on in the radio industry in particular? 238 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:26,120 People maybe they lose their job as a morning show host somewhere and they say, you know, we have an audience here 239 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:30,680 How can we take that audience and move it into a podcast? And I think we are seeing 240 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:32,920 some of that 241 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,680 Still, you know 242 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,560 Even though it's getting extremely competitive in podcasting now 243 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:42,920 So the fifth the strategy you have on your uh on your list here is deal with the dips 244 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:49,240 Yes, and uh when I mean dips, I don't mean people who uh, you know are idiots. I mean 245 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,960 people who 246 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:57,880 On the apple metrics will notice something that goes down on the chart. It's like what is that and that's the ad 247 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,120 because even the best 248 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:07,000 Uh host the most engaging most colorful host will will have a dip and so how can you creatively? 249 00:19:07,540 --> 00:19:09,400 segue from 250 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,240 your content 251 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,200 Through the ad making the ad sort of sing along 252 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,520 With the narrative of your content and then right through the ad 253 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,160 back to the content so 254 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,440 uh 255 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:27,400 You will have dips but you should look at trying to make sure those dips are smaller and smaller 256 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:32,200 And by going on the apple dashboard, you can see how much audience did I lose? 257 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,040 Oh, i'm getting better at this 258 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,720 And if you do have ad copy, you know pre-read it 259 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,160 Learn to love your your copy 260 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:46,120 Because it benefits you it benefits your listener and it benefits your sponsor 261 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:50,440 So john how important is it to have good quality audio? 262 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:56,920 I know there was a time where the audio didn't mean as much because there was a smaller group of a number of podcasts to 263 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,880 To pick through but now it's it's it's gotten so large. Not all of them are active 264 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,960 Everyone says there's a million podcasts, but not all of them are active or producing podcasts every week 265 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:12,680 But really how important is it for you to you know, at least invest in a couple of good microphones and figure out how to record it 266 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,680 So you have good quality sound 267 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,520 And the one thing I would say about that is it's gotten much easier now to do a really good podcast 268 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:22,680 using 269 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,840 Equipment that doesn't cost an arm and a leg 270 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,600 And I think audio quality is a big way of distinguishing yourself because if people hear 271 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,640 crackly crappy audio 272 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:41,080 You're going to turn them off and they'll go elsewhere. I think just to be honest about it 273 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,480 I know myself when i'm listening to stuff 274 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,800 It's like boy. They couldn't do better than that 275 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,720 Um, and then that will then raise a red flag and then the next time you know 276 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,720 I get the episode another episode. It's like man. Do I really want to invest the time? 277 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:02,440 So that's what it comes down to is getting your listener to invest the time and if you make the audio quality really good 278 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,400 You will probably attract them to keep coming back for that second third and fourth listen 279 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:13,800 And how important is it for you to consistently drop an episode on the day? You're going you say you're going to drop one 280 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,800 Yeah, you got to get them addicted right? It's a habit if you 281 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,440 Publish every tuesday be there every tuesday explain, you know 282 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:28,600 We publish on tuesday make us part of your commute or you know your morning walk now. They're in my neighborhood 283 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:35,960 There are so many people out walking and they're listening and people are taking cups of coffee with them or if it's an after-party 284 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,800 Or if it's in the afternoon, some of them are taking adult beverages with them 285 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:46,680 Uh, and they're listening to stuff on their phones. So if you drop on tuesday drop on tuesday folks 286 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:51,800 I mean, you know have some discipline too and that gets back to what I mentioned earlier about have a plan 287 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,280 And and stick to that plan 288 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,320 Any final tips you want to share with our audience? 289 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,320 Yeah, have fun 290 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,720 uh, the one thing I love about podcasting 291 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,560 is 292 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,320 Every day I feel like i'm doing a hobby and that's how it should feel 293 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,920 You should really enjoy doing what you're doing and then everything will flow from that. So 294 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,360 Enjoy it and if you find yourself not enjoying the process of doing a podcast 295 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:23,080 You're trying to build out a business based around a podcast. Maybe you shouldn't be doing a podcast 296 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,360 What are your three favorite podcasts outside the westwood one network? 297 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:35,560 Uh, I will tell you the one i'm listening to right now, uh, is uh baseball by the book 298 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:37,320 by a 299 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,760 Veteran sports writer justin maguire. I'm a baseball fan 300 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,760 and he has on baseball authors talking about uh, 301 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,800 whether it's harry carrey 302 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,800 or um 303 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,040 You know the new york giants or baseball 304 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:58,680 Uh, you know in new york or whatever. So that's my favorite. I would say I I go to that 305 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,040 A lot and I also listen to uh 306 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:08,840 Podcasts that are being done by sports stations around the country to see what the sports industry is up to these days 307 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,440 uh 308 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,440 You know given I spend my day looking listening to podcasts at night 309 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:20,760 I will also use podcasts to try to tune out and by engaging with sports podcasts in particular 310 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,320 So the the baseball one that you mentioned being that it's so nichey. Do they have sponsors? 311 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,880 I have not heard one yet. Uh, he has a lot of great guests 312 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:31,960 uh 313 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,960 But I have not heard a sponsor yet 314 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,960 Finally, how can people reach out to you and get in contact with you? Where can they find you? Sure. I'm on twitter 315 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:44,200 Uh at john wardock j-o-h-n-w-o-r-d-o-c-k 316 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,760 LinkedIn just look for me 317 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:53,980 Uh, you can also if you want, uh, feel free to email me at westwood one j wardock at westwood one.com 318 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,120 John, thanks so much for your time. We look forward to seeing you in person real soon 319 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:15,800 Thanks. Thanks ed