I'm very excited. I've not met my next guest,
but this is going to be an exciting chat. His
name is Jason Suhoi. He is the CEO and co -founder
of Supercast, which recently got sold to Red
Seat Ventures, which is part of Fox's Atubi group.
Jason, hello. How are you? Hi, Sam. Great to
be chatting. Excellent. Now, congratulations.
That's the first thing I should say. As a fellow
entrepreneur, making an exit is always a good
day. I want to find out lots and lots about that.
But first of all, for those who don't know Supercast,
what is Supercast? So Supercast is the preferred
podcast subscription platform for some of the
most well -monetized podcasts in the world. So
in a nutshell, what we do is we've brought the
idea of taking free listeners and moving them
through to being paid premium subscribers in
a way that is as natural as possible to the world
that we know and love as podcasting. So we work
with some of the biggest names in the space,
the likes of Huberman Lab and This American Life.
Also work with a number of independent creators
as well as bigger podcast networks. And basically
we work. seamlessly with the open podcast ecosystem.
So in two taps, somebody could add the premium
version of the podcast. So that could include
bonus episodes, for example. It could include
the ability to get a premium newsletter. It could
also include the ability to join the community
of your favorite podcast. And you can get a lot
of that content into the podcast player of choice
with a really simple two -tap sign -up process.
Nice. Now, I think you generated over $26 million
in revenue last year. Is that correct? So it's
actually $26 million just paid out to our top
10 creators on Supercast. Just the top 10. That's
right. And so we've narrowed in on just showing
that component because that has grown very steadily
over time. In the beginning, after our first
year, it was something like six or eight million
paid to our top 10. So you can see just in and
amongst a standardized cohort of our top 10 customers,
that has grown as people have really got on board
with podcast subscriptions. What was the embryo
of the idea? Every entrepreneur has their eureka
moment. When did you suddenly go, you know what,
I think I need something called Supercast. I
need to build it. Why? I think this was the intersection
of a couple of different things. I myself, as
an entrepreneur, My previous company was 99designs,
where I was COO when I led the growth of that
business, which is in the design space and as
a design marketplace for a decade prior to starting
Supercast. And it was a completely different
business altogether. We helped designers, over
1 .6 million of them all over the world, help
money by connecting them to businesses that need
logos or websites or book covers designed. And
I mention book covers specifically because Tim
Ferriss was an early customer of 99designs. he
needed a book cover design for his second book,
The 4 -Hour Body. And he ran a contest and got
just an incredible array of choice from our design
community. When he in turn started his podcast,
he invited us to be a sponsor. And we, of course,
jumped at the chance to be able to work with
him again. And just the way he spoke to his audience
about how he used 99designs and how emphatic
he was about this being a new way to get design
created over the internet just turned out to
be the strongest acquisition channel for 99designs
for many, many years to come. You know, the connection
that Tim has with his audience and being able
to recommend products and services like 99designs
my eyes to the intimacy of podcasting and just
the strength of the medium that gets formed between
a host and their listeners so when i got connected
to andrew wilkinson my co -founder for supercast
up in canada and this is going back to 2019 he
had just started working with sam harris and
one of the projects that he worked on with sam
harris was taking his existing audience and helping
him build a bespoke premium subscription platform.
Essentially, this was the genesis for Supercast,
working with one prominent creator who at the
time had his paying subscription base on Patreon.
Patreon, of course, had been around for many
years prior to that, but they were a horizontal
kind of solution. They were a solution not only
for podcasters, but for writers, for illustrators,
for video makers. They weren't tailor -made to
this idea of getting people who were listening
to your podcast on a free basis through to listening
to the premium version also in your podcast player
of choice. So as a result, Sam just felt it was
clunky. it was a lot of steps it wasn't seamless
and he could be building both a more intimate
experience but then a bigger business a higher
converting business if there were a tailor -made
tool for that and so We built out the first version
of Supercast, the Genesis version of Supercast
for Sam. His business exploded. His premium audience
felt much more engaged as a result. And really
that was the light bulb moment for us to say,
okay, well, he's not the only podcaster. Who
else could we be bringing this to, to be able
to generate a significant revenue stream for
them that is recurring and sustainable and works.
alongside whatever they're doing on the ad front.
One of the things I've been saying to James for
a couple of years now is that the premium subscription
marketplace is where podcasters are going to
end up in because advertising -led marketing
is interruption to the actual content of the
podcast. And that I always find jarring when
I hear an advert. Equally, we know a lot of people
just fast forward through the advert anyway,
whereas the subscription based model gives you
a stronger connection to your fan. They're making
a real monetary payment to support you, but also
it's then ad free as well. Now, you must have
seen Patreon doing very well. I think the numbers
for Patreon have been $2 billion payout. You
talked about a high number for yourselves at
Supercast of $26 million. So there is a market
there. And I think your other competitors, I
would say, in the market would be Memberful,
maybe Substack. I don't know what you consider
your competitors. But with all of that going
on, did you have a... arrow of direction yes
i know this is going to work or were you sort
of do we try all these different things did you
always just go straight for this premium marketplace
and say yeah that's the features and functions
we're going to add or did you try and dabble
with advertising and other ways of monetizing
let's say sam harris's platform we've been laser
focused on subscription for the last five years
and really that grew out of our experience with
sam harris and then rolling that into other creators
like found my fitness ronda patrick in the health
space huberman lab like followed on from that
obviously that's a relatively new podcast that
they only started in like 2020 but exploded onto
the scene and we were able to launch a subscription
with them shortly after and then staying on that
track some of the creators that we work with
today this american life for example You know,
we still have to pinch ourselves that I'm able
to mention the caliber of these sorts of podcasts
as people that we get to work with on a weekly
basis and partner with. And I think part of that
does come down to our focus. We don't see ourselves
as the solution for somebody that's just starting
out with their first 10, 20, 50 episodes. You
can, of course, sign up on Supercast as a self
-service creator if you have a show that's just
starting out. But the Patreons of the world,
for example, that is the long tail, as we refer
to it, is their bread and butter. They invest
a lot in marketing to have brand awareness for
a much larger swath of customers. Whereas with
our team, which is relatively smaller, and obviously
we've raised a lot less money and so on prior
to the acquisition, we've just stayed focused
on super serving the podcasters that have already.
built up a significant audience and want to be
able to work with a partner on a really close
-knit basis to be able to create an offering
for their audience that really fits that special
relationship that they have you know it's not
the same size fits all, you know, for each one
of these creators, you know, like, yes, ad free
is a benefit. But then also, you know, the common
questions that come up are, what should I be
offering in terms of bonus content? What works
for other creators? Is it extended episodes?
Is it one episode a week? Is it one episode a
month? Should I do AMAs? You know, AMAs is something
that we kind of have built specific solutions
around on Supercast so that you can give The
audience, the sense that they're able to drive
the conversation in areas that are interesting
to them and get their questions answered without
it being a rod for the creator's back where they
feel like everybody has a channel to them. And
of course, when you're dealing with hundreds
or thousands or even millions of listeners, you
know, that's just not scalable. solution and
what is your revenue stream i was just looking
through it now patreon is a eight to ten percent
from the subscription i think substack is a flat
fee what was the supercast model yeah so substack
is just a ten percent fee on whatever revenue
you bring in so we decided to go a different
way and we charge 59 cents per subscriber per
month So essentially the amount that we take
doesn't change as the creator decides to scale
up their price. And so what you can do on Supercast
is have multiple tiers. So you might have bronze,
silver and gold, for example, and bronze might
start at $6 and gold could end up at $15, for
example. And so our fee for the service that
we provide doesn't change if you go up. And so
if you have a $10 subscription price, for example,
that the likes of Cuban Lab or This American
Life have, that works out to like 6 % of the
revenue that you're bringing in. Now, given some
of the changes occurring in podcasting over the
advent of video, the introduction of live podcasting.
How does Supercast see itself within those, I
mean, going from just an audio -only model? Have
you embraced video? You talked about AMA, so
have you embraced live as well? We have. So this
is something that we've followed with a lot of
interest. And it's particularly relevant to us
because, obviously, the people that are prepared
to pay for your audience are the people that
are the most engaged within your audience. And
what they're paying for is not only that additional
content, but the access. to you as a host and
somebody that is playing an important part in
their lives. So AMA, as you mentioned, is something
that we did pretty much out of the gate with
Supercast in establishing that two -way connection
where premium listeners could not only hear an
extra episode with AMA questions and the answers,
but also ask their own questions. And so the
way they did that was in the show notes of an
episode, there would be links to go in. supercast
website submit your own questions upvote other
people's questions and then you know play the
the episode you know on the website with you
know timestamps and so on in addition to what
you could get through the podcast player video
we leaned into pretty early on as well so about
four years ago we started you know kind of jumping
in with video podcasters The first version of
that was an early iteration where we were basically
embedding YouTube and Vimeo videos. But about
two years ago, we flipped that into native video,
knowing that video was just only going to get
more and more important to creators. And so right
now we have a video experience. It comes through.
basically the Supercast mobile -friendly web
experience. And that's something that we're very
much looking to invest further into. Okay. This
is quite prescient. So you've got the platform,
you've got the revenue model, you've got the
users. Is this when you suddenly found Red Seat
Ventures? When did they first come and tap you
on the shoulder and say, hey, do you fancy a
chat? So I've known Chris for a number of years
now, just being in the industry for a while.
He got introduced to me as somebody that I should
know. And I was also curious about his background.
He, in the radio days, also used to operate subscription
business. So I know that he was a big believer
in the model. Also just someone who's done something
pretty amazing in terms of what he's able to
build up in partnership with his creators. So
about a year ago, we ended up starting to work
with a creator from his portfolio. That creator
has built up a stream of revenue over time that
has just continued to snowball. And so after
Chris's own acquisition by Red Seat, by Tubi
Media Group, a little over a year ago, I reached
out just to really get a sense of, what that
meant for him the direction that was now leading
him into the opportunities that had opened up
for him and at the end of that call he suggested
that we go and chat to paul cheeseburger who
was the ceo of chuvi media group we lined up
another call and about 10 minutes into that i
think we were all kind of in strong alignment
that there was a really strong strategic fit
to explore here which fast forward a little bit
has obviously turned into our acquisition So
now the acquisition's occurred. What does that
mean for Supercast? Will you remain independent
with your audience or are you going to be now
part of Fox and are you going to be integrated
directly into their platform? How's it all going
to work? What's the path forward next? So we
will continue to run Supercast on an autonomous
basis, exactly as it is today. So being creator
first has got us to where... we are today like
being able to go out to the likes of This American
Life and the Huberman Labs and to say to them
you own your audience we want to help you convert
as many of those possible through to paying subscribers
but ultimately you're in charge of that revenue
stream it'll be your Stripe account all built
under your brand was a really powerful way for
us to approach the market and also build the
trust that you know we've been able to do you
know with the creators that we serve. So it was
really important to us that none of that changes.
The team is staying the same. I'm continuing
to lead the business and our philosophy for the
way we serve creators, none of that is changing.
But what does open up in terms of possibilities
is being able to run faster at the things that
we want to build. So obviously Red Seat Ventures
and with the backing of Tubi gives us the ability
to hire more engineers, for example, hire more,
create a growth. resources, scaling our support
team, and to be able to build out the product
in a way that allows us to serve our creators
better and also have them grow at even faster
rates than they are currently. One of the areas
that people are looking at is obviously AI. Have
you got any plans to integrate AI into Supercast?
Like everybody, I think, in the world, we're
following this with interest. There are certainly
areas from a product point of view where assessing
you know like not only what can we do from an
engagement front but what also can we do from
a workflow front one of the most powerful things
that this acquisition enables is us to be able
to bring ad revenue which red seat ventures is
world -class at and subscription revenue which
we're you know supercast is world -class at all
under one roof. And that hasn't been done before.
If you look out across the landscape of the creator
economy and the podcast industry, typically you
get players that can represent you on the ad
side or the subscription side with the platforms,
but they... basically stick to their netting
and as a result the creator has to stitch together
all of these solutions if they want to sell ads
that's one partner if they want to do subscription
that's supercast or another player if you want
to do events you have to work with another partner
again merchandise you get the idea you know email
you know the whole works is like it's so fragmented
it's a wonder that creators have any time to
actually get on and record content and so your
question was about ai but i think the opportunity
that we see is really to bring all that under
that roof and to streamline a lot of the workflows
it takes for the creator to be able to reach
their existing audience, reach new audience,
and then to be able to convert that audience
as high rate as possible through to being listeners
of ads, but then also premium subscribers on
a subscription basis as well. So AI is certainly
going to come into the picture amongst all of
those tenants, but I would say really we're starting
with the vision of where, We want to take things
for creator -owned companies and media companies.
I've said to James on several occasions that
back in the early 90s when the internet was first
born, you would hear the term portal, you know,
MSN, AOL, Yahoo, Netscape, they're all portals.
I'm a firm believer what we are now seeing is
democratized portals where brands and creators
can build their brand around a portal, which
is fundamentally... Audio, video, email, newsletters,
merch, live events, all sorts of other things.
And it's their portal and their branded portal.
So I'm fully with you on the idea of one stop
for the brand or for the creator where they can
bring their audience to it. I use the term monetizing
fandom as the way of describing it, but there's
many ways of saying the same thing. We see you
in London at the London Podcast Show, Jason.
I would love to get there. I actually haven't
been to the podcast show yet, so I was actually
looking at getting out there last night. Join
us. It's great, I have to say. I really recommend
it. I think you'll gain a lot from it, but you'll
also be able to give a lot to that audience as
well. And last question, with whatever monies
you've acquired, have you had one? I suppose,
little pleasure, something that you've always
wanted to buy or something that you've always
wanted to do? Have you taken that one moment
to go, you know, this is what I've waited for.
I'm going to go and do something with my money.
You know, I honestly haven't given that an ounce
of thought. Like everything in business, yes,
there are these milestones that you get to, but
ultimately we're all here kind of like. building
things and the day after something like this
is announced there is now another list of things
to do so to give you an example you know next
week you know we've got the podcast business
summit in brooklyn and then we'll be spending
some time in person in new york with the red
seat team on the exciting stuff there's a whole
lot of work that's involved in bringing two companies
together both from a diligence perspective like
getting something like this over the line and
really this is getting to the exciting part the
combined vision of what we can be building together
and how that impacts the team expanding the roadmap
and so on and so yeah to be honest from a personal
perspective i'm sure that'll come but for right
now these conversations are what i've been working
hard to get to so I've just been focused on that.
I think I've got one for you. Book those flights
to London, bring your family and have an extended
holiday on the back of it. How about that? Sounds
good. Jason, if anyone wants to find out more
about Supercast, where do they go? Supercast
.com would be the first stop. They can obviously
browse the site. There's the ability to book
a demo there with our partnerships team. Or if
they want to, they can also reach out to me personally
at Jason at Supercast .com. Jason, once again,
massive congratulations as a fellow entrepreneur
exiting or in your case, getting that investment.
It's super hard to get there. So massive hat
tip to you. Thank you. I appreciate it. And look,
I wouldn't be able to do it without an extremely
talented team and then the trust of a lot of
our creators. At the end of the day, our philosophy
at Supercast has always been that we succeed
when our creators succeed. And a lot of the creators
that we worked with, trusted us with their audience
relationships and their money well before we
deserved it. So if there's anything I would like
to close to, it's really gratitude for the creators
that we've been able to work with. It's a pleasure
to see them on a daily basis. Our team and the
creator economy that is working equally as hard
to build everything around us. I look forward
to seeing you in London. Take care, Jason. Thank
you, Sam.