We're joined by a good friend of the show. His
name is Justin Jackson. He is the co -founder
and CEO of Transistor. Hello, Justin. How are
you? Good morning. I'm doing well. This is the
earliest I've ever gotten up for an interview
ever. Excellent. Strike one for me. Now, well,
the reason you're up so early is because Apple
dropped a bombshell yesterday. It was a Monday.
Easy Apple. Yeah. What did they tell us? What
did they drop, Justin? They announced HLS video
support. inside of Apple podcasts, something.
Don't we just go woohoo, that's what we want.
This is what, at the Podcast Standards Project,
we've been talking about this. We've been talking
about video from the beginning. Back in 2022,
I think our first blog post mentions adding video,
more support for video. And we really ramped
up discussions and demos and specs for HLS video
in 2025. So even back in August, I said in particular
having Apple podcasts adopt HLS video would legitimize
the standard and likely trigger widespread adoption
across the entire podcast ecosystem. So here
it is, it was a surprise. No advanced warning
aside from a few select launch partners that
they had. But overall, I think this is going
to be good. Overall, I am pleased. Overall, it's
nice to see Apple moving in this direction. It's
a very different approach than Spotify and YouTube.
It's a bit of a different approach than we were
hoping for. But I think on the whole, this is
good news for the open podcast ecosystem. I remember
talking to Buzzsprout. probably in that 22 time
window where I said are you gonna support video
and I got a resounding no hell will freeze over
before we do that because it's too expensive
why would we use mp4 blah blah blah and this
was just when YouTube was raising its little
head above the parapet and going we're about
to do podcasting everyone went oh my god here
we go and there was a counter I was trying to
get hosts to do something and I was getting a
deep strong no we're not going to do this and
then the conversation around HLS was raised well
is this an alternative way you know you don't
download the whole lot maybe you stream elements
of it could that work and maybe charge it as
a premium and that's when the PSP took it on
board and I think you've been banging the drum
very well for that and we've had meetings in
London I don't think what we got from Apple yesterday
was everything we wanted because, correct me
if I'm wrong, Justin, but HLS only works in the
Apple channels and it doesn't work in the main
podcasting app. No, I think it will work everywhere.
I thought they're only going to support MP4 in
the main app. Oh, I see. No, I think once podcasts
adopt this, if you have HLS video enabled, then
it'll show up in the app. It'll show up in search.
It'll show up on their home screen if they feature
you. And hopefully, eventually, what I would
love is for them to also have that old switcher
at the top, which was in iTunes and even early
Apple podcasts. You could switch between show
me all the audio only podcasts and then show
me the podcast that support video. I think hopefully
that's coming. But yeah, I think this will be
throughout the Apple podcast app. This is just
their first release. We often criticize Apple.
And I think it's harder inside that machine than
we give them credit for. And I think they have
lots of constraints on their side. For example,
I don't think they're being malicious when they
hold back information until launch day. It does
really suck. They told all podcast creators that
it's coming. And so then, of course, every podcast
hosting platform is gonna get inundated with
customer support. Requests saying hey, what do
you offer this yet? But I think they've got a
lot of constraints on their side so I can appreciate
that I think this is just the first announcement
for example. This does not preclude them from
eventually supporting HLS video in the alternate
enclosure tag video has lots of difficult implementation
factors like What are we going to do about explicit
material? What are we going to do about truly
horrendous material that can be images that can
be uploaded as video? There's a lot of things
to figure out there. So yeah, kudos to them for
this initial launch. The ultimate test is that
creators have to care. And so I think this is
something else I've been thinking about a lot.
We... the ecosystem and the industry and as well
-meaning stewards of the open standard could
say this is the way it should be and this is
what we hope it to be but if creators don't use
it and if consumers don't care then it doesn't
really matter what we implement. It doesn't even
matter if Apple supports it. Apple is a big deal
because they've got a lot of reach and they've
got a big install base, but unless creators start
using HLS Video and adding those podcasts to
Apple, and then unless consumers start enjoying
that video and watching it, then it doesn't matter
what we want, what we care about, what we're
trying to push. What's exciting is that I think
in the open ecosystem, we've been looking for
a big platform partner that can at least give
us a chance to get the distribution. So they
emailed all of their podcast creators saying
this is happening. It's in the discussion. People
were talking about it on Reddit. And again, we
got lots of customers asking us about it. I was
on holiday and I actually got The reason I found
out is because customers were messaging me personally
saying, hey, are you going to support this? So
they have a lot of distribution with creators.
And if they do the implementation right on the
consumer side, and if they eventually add this
to Apple TV and their whole ecosystem, this has
a good chance of at least seeing if consumers
care. And so, yeah, I'll be looking at that,
I think. But yeah, not everything we wanted,
but I think it's a good first step. OK, so a
couple of questions come to mind. First of all,
I think consumers, the younger consumers, certainly
if I look at my 26 year old and my 21 year old
and their friends, where they consume YouTube
is they don't actually watch YouTube all the
time. It's there. It's in the background. The
audio is playing. they can hear it, and then
they'll switch their head to the video if there's
something that's relevant. From my basic test
with iOS 26 .4, which I think you need, it's
the beta, so it's not the final version. They're
doing what Spotify does is you upload a video
and then when you want audio, they're fundamentally
just using the audio of the video. They're not
actually switching to an audio file. It brought
up a really interesting question yesterday on
LinkedIn where somebody asked me, should I just
produce video only now and let Apple, Spotify
and YouTube use the video? And then they will
switch it to audio in terms of just removing
the visual image. And therefore do I no longer
need to do an audio edit as well? Yeah, this
is actually one of those big unanswered questions
and this came up as we were creating HLS demos
and then eventually had apps like true fans and
fountain support it which is Yeah, you could
so the way it works on true fans Correct me if
I'm wrong is if you're streaming HLS video and
you switch to the audio version It actually switches
to the audio enclosure, right? Yes in practice
what ended up and this is again, this is One
of the, I think the most important things is,
especially for the open podcast ecosystem, is
we need to get out of the theoretical as soon
as possible and into the real as soon as possible.
So as soon as we released this, Steven Robles,
who has the primary technology podcast, he was
one of the first people to adopt it. He's like,
I'm going to use that HLS enclosure on transistor.
And then he was like, but wait a second. He's
like, I produce a separate audio version. That's
very distinct from my video version. But on True
Fans and Fountain, when you switch between them,
it's not one for one. The length of the file
isn't the same. And so now we have a power user
that's saying, like, this doesn't really work
for me. However, the paradigm that emerged on
Spotify is switched between audio and video.
And... They've kept that paradigm and they're
testing a lot of things and they're Consumers
apparently like that feature on Spotify YouTube
music also launched with that same feature and
people apparently like that feature on YouTube
music and from a creator's perspective I often
think about like the 80 90 95 98 percent of podcasts
like 95 percent of podcasts are currently getting
under a thousand downloads per episode. What
about them? What are they going to do? And I
think we, we often focus on the top end of the
market. Like what are the top 20 podcasts and
who are the power users like Steven Robles and
what do they want? But the reality is, especially
for the open ecosystem, we have to care about
that 95 % who are just making a podcast for fun
or just making a podcast to make a little bit
of money or just making a Dungeons and Dragons
podcast because they want to do something fun
with their friends. What are they gonna do? I
think most creators are just gonna wanna upload
one video file and have that be their podcast.
And yes, all of the audio nerds are gonna be
like, you can't do that, you need to craft the
audio just for audio. And sure, obviously, on
the upper end of the market, people have all
sorts of opinions. But the vast majority of creators,
I think, if they're gonna do video, are gonna
wanna upload one video file. And by the way,
they're gonna want it distributed to YouTube
and Spotify. And what's exciting about this Apple
announcement is it at least gives us an option
in the open ecosystem that they can take if they
want it. So that will also be available to them.
And I think they're just gonna upload one video.
So I think we're gonna see more people that are
recording. their podcast, at least the creators
I talk to and the surveys we've done of transistor
customers, most creators are recording video
already. You can do it in... Well, we are here.
You can do it in StreamYard. Yeah. So if you're
doing it already, all you have to do then is
switch your editing technique to now instead
of editing the audio waveform, I'm editing the
video and audio waveform at the same time. It's
a little bit more time to edit. Again, for a
regular creator, it's just going through, adding
a little bit of music, maybe normalizing the
audio, if you're lucky, and maybe cutting out
a few spots. Yeah, so I think, yeah, if I was
advising creators, and what I have been advising
creators is just create a video and edit that.
export the video, export the audio, that's your
podcast. They're the same length, they're the
same thing. And I think especially with this
switching paradigm, having a separate audio version
from video version, I don't know what we're gonna
do about that, but from the app side, they've
gotta solve that problem. And I think they're
just gonna be like, well, if they start watching
the video, we're just gonna switch. And they
turn off their screen. We're going to continue
to use that video version Can't see another way
of managing that problem Okay, so a couple of
other things that came out the announcement I
want to ask your thoughts for first of all what's
interesting about the announcement is YouTube
and Spotify have promised dynamic ad insertion
for a while, but neither deliver. It's a Spotify
are seeing content creators losing money right
now with their video solution on Spotify, because
it's a percentage of subscription with no DAI.
YouTube have promised DAI, but there isn't any.
So if you're uploading to Spotify or YouTube,
you have to remove all your ads. It can do host
read ads, but you can't do dynamic ads, right?
Now, with this announcement of leapfrog the pair
and go, yeah, we'll do DAI through our partners
and you can now do it through Apple channels.
So will we see Spotify and YouTube respond, I
suppose, is the question. I mean, YouTube is
already doing dynamic ads of some sort with a
select few of their creators, so they might not
be that far behind. Yeah, it'll be really interesting.
It was interesting to see who showed up for all
of those HLS discussions that the podcast standards
project held because all of a sudden folks from
the industry that had never attended a meeting
were attending and a lot of them were from the
large ad network companies and I think from their
perspective They're thinking how are we going
to battle this wall these walled gardens if people
are now uploading video to Spotify and that takes
them out of the dynamic ad insertion pipeline
and takes them out of our ability to track downloads
and If people are uploading to YouTube while
we can't dynamically insert ads in there at all
they're getting squeezed out and so I think from
their perspective, this Apple announcement is
very interesting because it gives them a place
to do that. And again, often we talk about the
podcasting market using overall averages, like
overall Spotify is at, I don't know, 36 % and
Apple's at 15 and YouTube's at whatever. But
when you actually slice up, for example, the
top 20 podcasts, A lot of them, their primary
audience is on Apple. And so I think for publishers
of those shows where it's like we have a sizable
audience on Apple podcasts, that audience also
often skews their higher value customer or higher
value consumer for target ads to. And so I think.
Yeah, I think there was a. Definitely an appetite
from the big ad networks and publishers to have
some sort of solution on their side. But listen,
this is, there's multiple, we're talking about
multiple markets now. We're talking about the
market for advertising. And advertisers have
lots of options and they make decisions, all
sorts of decisions based on all sorts of criteria.
Like they could spend money on Google AdWords,
they can spend money on... ads and chat gbt they
can spend money on ads on amazon prime so they
have a lot of options and they're going to choose
whatever is giving them results so if if all
of a sudden i know triton is selling ads ad impressions
on apple podcast video and those are delivering
really good return on investment then people
will keep It'll it will work in that way if it
doesn't then they'll they'll put their money
in YouTube ads are fairly easy to book YouTube's
ad platform is definitely has a lot of advantages
as well. So the problem on YouTube is that a
lot of kind of the desirable customers are paying
for YouTube premium and So this is another interesting
thing is how is this on Apple going to all converge?
Are people going, is this also going to, I imagine
it would partner with Apple Podcast subscriptions,
right? So now you're going to be able to say,
oh, this is actually the premium subscriber.
And so Apple will know to just not have ads in
that stream. Spotify is trying to do something
similar, I believe. So yeah, it's a... Yeah,
interesting time and lots of moving pieces that
have to play themselves out eventually the ultimate
Determining factor will be Do consumers watch
these videos if they do watch these videos? Are
they responding to the ads if that happens? Well
advertisers keep booking them. There's a lot
of unanswered questions right now Okay, so I
fully agree. There's a lot of unanswered questions,
but try and answer these two ones for me. Does
the API requirement for hosts to be able to send
HLS basically into the Apple channels mean that
broken RSS? You still need to have an RSS feed.
And it sounds like this is selective in the same
way that you can upload a video to Spotify for
one episode, but not the other. So there could
be folks that are like, oh, I've got a big interview
coming up. I want there to be a video version
of that. And advertisers want to sponsor the
video version. So I'm going to make an API call
to add an HLS manifest URL to that episode. But
my audio episodes remain the same. It's still,
you still need an RSS feed to submit to Apple
podcasts and for even for this to work. The RSS
feed is still the foundation, the key that gets
you in. I think understand why Apple's doing
it this way. In some ways, Like, for all we know,
we don't know what's motivating them, but for
all we know, the motivation for all of this,
including, for example, we haven't talked about
it, but they're gonna charge some sort of fee,
Apple's gonna charge some sort of fee, first
time they've ever done this, for dynamically
inserted ads. So every time an ad runs, they're
gonna get some sort of fee. We don't know if
this is like a revenue opportunity for them or
this is just a convenience fee so that they can
pay for all the lawyers that they've had to hire
for this. But I can understand, Why Apple would
want the initial release of this to be like we
need to get people? We need to get hosts to sign
a bunch of legal documents We need them to use
an official channel, and then we need creators
probably to sign something because there's just
again As soon as you're dealing with images It
is a whole new ballgame right like what can get
uploaded to as images and video can be truly
horrific And they have to have some sort of way
of managing it. And I can understand why they
would launch it this way. It doesn't preclude
them from doing alternate enclosure and or even
saying the primary enclosure. Like maybe eventually.
And again, I don't know what folks in the ecosystem
will think about this, but. There is a world
where the HLS. HLS becomes the primary delivery
mechanism and you just put your HLS manifest
in the primary enclosure and HLS manifest can
have all of your video versions at all the different
resolutions and an audio version. So you can
have it all in that text file basically and then
that could be in the primary enclosure tag and
maybe that's eventually where we're going. I
don't think it breaks RSS. I think, again, right
now you've got to add these via API, but that
doesn't necessarily mean it has to be that way.
It doesn't preclude Apple from eventually accepting
these in other ways. It might mean actually that
we need to add... Yeah, it might just mean that
we add, I guess this is... Possible already but
the idea that you might just add an alternate
enclosure for certain episodes. So this episode
has video So hey Apple you can pick it up here
So yeah, I don't think it breaks RSS. I think
Apple is still the best of the big companies
is still the best supporter of the open ecosystem
and this is a good move towards In that direction
still right? It's still the creators hosting
the video We can add that HLS manifest URL to
the alternate enclosure tag and make the API
call. That's fine. And maybe APIs also need to
be a part of the open ecosystem. That's another
piece to this is maybe that's another ingredient
that we need to be considering more often. I
think the alternative enclosure is something
that we hope Apple will adopt. Yeah, I think.
Manifest, as you pointed out, is a pseudo alternative
enclosure in its own right, because it has audio
and video capability. But I think within the
podcasting community, I've heard other uses of
the alternative enclosure. So for one, it could
be language translation, right? It doesn't want
to be in that primary manifest, maybe. Secondly,
Mary at Fountain and myself have certainly been
working on premium RSS, which is encrypted content,
which is an alternative to Apple. subscription
channels right so again there are other places
that the alternative enclosure will have value
within the open ecosystem not just for video
and audio yeah i think if this goes well for
apple like if this test goes well they are there's
lots of incentives for them to want to increase
the amount of video content on apple podcasts
so if it turns out in these in this limited initial
release that they're just seeing consumption
on their side that's like, wow, people really
love this. People are really using it. Advertisers
love it. Creators love it. Everybody loves it.
How can we get more of this content on our devices
and on eventually on Apple TV? And then to be
able to expand the pie, they might be like, well,
let's adopt the alternate enclosure tag. So,
yeah, I think it could still happen. And again,
I think the Apple is a big company. They have
they have billions of users. They have a lot
of they've got to do things and they have a lot
of lawyers. I don't know if I mentioned that.
So they've got to do things a certain way. That's
just the reality of being a giant corporation.
And I'm just pleased that they continue on to
support the open ecosystem. Is it is this perfect?
Not yet, but I'm still waiting. Sometimes we
just got to give them time. And again, I think
the encouraging part is that if a lot more creators
are publishing HLS manifests, then it's super
easy for the host to say, oh, well, we now also
support the alternate enclosure tech. For example,
like all these initial partners, right? Omni
and all them. For their advertisers, why wouldn't
they also just add? That for the first time by
the way I don't think any of them support the
alternate enclosure tag right now any of these
initial hosting providers so now What why not
why not just add the alternate enclosure tag
with HLS? Manifest in there and now pocket cast
is saying they're gonna add HLS support True
fans has it fountain has it you're gonna get
way more distribution for your video. That's
what you want right you want to sell more of
those Those ad impressions, so I think it's gonna
have a positive ripple effect throughout the
industry Especially for apps that aren't Spotify
YouTube or Apple Putting your co -founder CEO
hat on for transistor. What does this mean for
you? What do your customers think because? You're
not an ad platform, you're not like Acast or
Triton, so you're not delivering ads through
dynamic head insertion, but you're obviously
a partner of Apple, you do delegated delivery.
So, day two after the announcement, what do you
now say you're going to do for Transistor in
terms of feature and function that you add? We've
been talking about video for a long time. I got
into podcasts because of video. I was watching
Dignation and Leo Laporte, all of those folks,
Tekzilla, all of those shows on the bus, on my
iPod Classic. That's how I got into podcasts,
was video first. So it's a big deal for me. As
a creator, I think every show I've created in
the last four years has been video and audio.
We're recording the video already. got an editing
system where we just edit the video, and then
we publish, export the video file, export the
audio file. That's just part of our routine.
When we survey our customers, the majority are
doing video and audio. And so, to me, it's just
undeniable. This is where it's going. Practically,
for a team of our size to build video infrastructure,
it's definitely a heavier lift, but I've built
a prototype that I'm using myself right now.
I think it will be tiered like the adding HLS
video is definitely a bigger lift than uploading
video to YouTube and Spotify. But our customers
are asking for it. And in my mind, it's just,
we're always gonna charge value for value. So
yes, if you want us to distribute your video
to YouTube, Spotify, you'll pay for that if you
want to. upload if you also want us to host it
and Stream the HLS video and have that on Apple
then you'll pay for that as well So it's I think
from a business perspective. There's an opportunity
there There's still some open questions about
it. It does add a lot more complexity to this
nice little podcasting world We had I can completely
understand Players in the industry that don't
want to touch video and I honestly I still think
There will if you want to be an audio first or
audio only Podcasting platform whether you're
a hosting platform or a listening platform. I
think there's still plenty of opportunity for
that I think that market will continue to grow
10 15 percent a year. I think it'll be fine but
yeah, we're thinking about it and If you think
about again, there's a type of creator now that
is either selling their ads directly like acquired
or they have They're selling their ads directly
and they have a big subscriber paid subscriber
base like Steven Robles Those for those folks
they want this like as soon as they heard about
this Apple thing their highest value listener
is on Apple and They want to give them the best
experience. So It's going to be depending on
how you monetize. I think it's going to be interesting
for a lot of different podcasters and Yeah, so
it's something we're thinking about for sure
Okay, switching hats, Justin, putting your PSP
hat on now. Which of the tags do you hope or
expect Apple to adopt next? The easy lift would
be the person tag. That's the one that I'm...
Because the worry with the person tag is that...
people are going to fake that there's somebody
famous. But that's already happening on Apple
Podcasts. They make mistakes all the time with
their tagging system. So I think the one piece
that we have talked about is how can we verify
these people tags? Can we have a central repository
for like, you just update, similar to Gravatar,
you just update your Gravatar one place and then
that syndicates. everywhere. So I think we need
to have more discussions about that. But the
person tag. Creators have looked at Apple's guest
credits thing forever and gone, how come I can't
access that? And yeah, so I think the person
tag would be great. I think pod roll would be
great. I love to see different implementations
of that. True fans, pocket cast, like just like
show other recommended by the creator. Like that's
such a great opportunity and feels like a relatively
small lift. And then the other one is the lit
tag the live like now you've got As soon as you
add video Here's the other thing that a lot of
podcasters are doing is they're recording I do
a show called the panel. We record the live version
on YouTube and That's we're live. Hey, we're
live and I think being able to I'll have an indicator
in Apple podcast that your favorite show is live
Just like you can see in other apps like true
fans and fountain like it's a really cool experience
to like show up live and be like oh Here we are
So and I've seen really simple implementations
of live blue sky for example Just rolled out
a live now thing where all you do is you put
in your twitch URL and say how long you're gonna
be live for so There's no API. They're not checking
anything. It's just like, hey, I'm going live
on Twitch. Here's the URL and I'll be live for
two hours. And then when people are scrolling,
they say, oh, Justin's live right now. I'm going
to check that out. So those three are interesting
to me. And having, for example, pod roll on the
episode level, I think could also be very interesting.
That's not implemented, but that's something
I'd love to see. as well so hey you enjoyed this
episode here's five more episodes like this that
you might enjoy i think those are all really
good candidates the other two i would love to
see i think one they won't one i would love them
to see i expect them to see do as well is the
location tag if you look at the transcript with
timed links and you look at the fact that Transcription
is basically a building block, in my opinion,
for other services on top, layered on top. So
Apple's gone, okay, we can now read this with
AI and we can highlight, I don't know, books,
events, location, whatever. Right, look at that.
Now we can send it to more Apple services, right?
It's very ecosystem block based. But you look
at what Spotify just announced last week, it's
very similar. They're doing that as well now.
But if you take location, given that both, well,
given that Apple's got an Apple Maps product,
it's not very hard to say that you could lay
location on top with categories. You take one
of my ideas has been I live here in Marlowe in
Buckinghamshire, and my categories for PodNews
Weekly Review are news, tech and business. So
can I now, using the location tag, find other
people who have podcasts local to me with those
same categories? Oh, look, I can. And now suddenly
I can do a real world meetup or I can do a guest
interview or I can just talk to somebody locally
about some of the challenges that we both have
with podcasting. I think there's lots you can
build. So I hope Apple implement location. The
one that's frustrating me from the podcasting
to the community is the publisher tag. Which
is fundamentally what apple channels is if you
took laundry on apple you've got a combination
of freemium and premium content within that channel
and then what apple has just said is that okay
we will provide. dynamic ad insertion into the
free content within that channel. Um, but if
you want to pay a subscription for some of that
content in that channel, then we'll remove the
ads or the ads aren't dynamically inserted, right?
Yeah. We have had publisher feeds as a approved
tag for over two years. And I hate to say it,
Oscar and Dovey Das from Fountain came up with
the idea. True fans implemented the idea and
no one else has implemented it. Um, we're sat
here. looking at Apple channels. Now, I think
we have missed, I think, a big opportunity. So
publisher feeds is one, I think, that has slipped
through the net for a lot of the podcast community.
I think that's a good one to bring up. Yeah,
that there's one thing that, again, I just want
to bring up again, which I think is important,
is ultimately, this has to be creator driven.
Creators have to want to use these features.
And You see it on the podcast hosting site all
the time. We have all these things that they
can use. They could use the person tag. They
can build themselves a little website and they
can even choose a different theme on that website.
What do most people do? Most people choose just
whatever is the first website theme we give them.
That's what they choose. Same colors, everything.
They don't modify anything. Very few people use
the person tag right now and pot roll as well.
So some of it is a visibility issue, but There
are definitely some things that creators want
more. And I think live is actually just a great
example. So many people go live and like live.
And so what can we prioritize in terms of what
do most creators want most of the time? I think
live is a great one. But as you go up, like you
can see a kind of higher tier creator or a more
professional creator, things like a publisher
tag. that echoes what they have on Apple at the
channel level becomes pretty compelling. But
I want us to be thinking about weighing both
of those things. Like, what do 95 % of podcasters
want? And what could we even realistically get
them to do? And there's a lot of folks doing
video, so it makes sense for us to do something
with video. A lot of folks are doing live. Makes
sense for us to do something live. And then everything
else, I think we have to apply the same filter
to. But yeah, I think this is an exciting time
for the Podcast Standards Project because now
it's like, OK, it was always Apple's not doing
anything. Well, now Apple has started doing things.
And again, in my conversations with Spotify and
even YouTube, there's opportunities there as
well. I don't think they're as opposed to things
as we think. Podcast transcript tag being a great
example. Like, why not grab it? It's there. Just
treat it like YouTube treats. Transcript uploads
like you can upload your own transcript or we'll
generate one for you So I think there's yeah,
this latest move by Apple is very encouraging
again I would love to know how long they've been
working on this because if this was a fairly
recent development first That's exciting because
that means the podcast ecosystem does have a
voice that Apple's listening to I and The second
thing is it means Apple can actually move a bit
faster than we thought so if this was something
they've been working for like three, four years
on, then, well, okay, it was just in the pipeline,
whatever. But if this is something they're like,
you know what, like a year ago, they're like,
we should look into this. And then they started
working on it and building it, and they were
able to get it initially launched in a year?
That's exciting because that means that they
could also move on other things as well. And
we just might see, and when Apple moves, it just
really does help for it to go across the open
ecosystem. And also, like you said, like now,
like if you can do dynamic ads on Apple podcast
video, but you can't do it on Spotify or YouTube,
how does that move them? It makes things more
interesting. So, yeah, I'm pleased and and I'm
hoping that maybe we'll see maybe the live tag,
maybe the person tag, maybe the publisher tag.
It's all in play now. And now all we have to
do as an open ecosystem is make the best possible
case. the honest case that creators are actually
asking for it. This is something creators want.
This is something that a lot of creators want.
This is something that a lot of listeners want.
And if we can make that case, I think that's
what became compelling about video is that we
could say, well, creators want it and consumers
want it. And so it becomes a lot more palatable
if there's evidence of demand. Justin Jackson,
we probably could talk for ages, but I'm sure
we have to end this podcast at some point. Thank
you so much. I think we're going to be talking
about this a lot more in 2026. I look forward
to seeing you in London. Yes. At the London podcast
show. I'm sure we'll be chatting about it there
as well. See you soon. Thank you.