WEBVTT

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I'm Brad Milkey, and I'm the host and managing

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editor of ABC's daily podcast, Start Here. Now,

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you launched that podcast in 2018, but on December

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the 1st, you will hit 2 ,000 episodes. That's

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quite a hit. I'm exhausted just listening to

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you say it, James. How did we get here? It's

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incredible. And I'm somebody who had been around

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the podcasting scene even before working in ABC

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radio. So I know the care it takes to put together

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a podcast episode of any sort. And so I think

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to myself, oh, it's not just like 2 ,000 episodes.

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It's 2 ,000 podcasts that we've put together.

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And that sounds just unreasonable. It sounds

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unreal when you say it like that. And each one

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of those podcasts being significantly, I mean,

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I've put more than 2000, but mine are only five

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minutes long. And my idea of reporting is not

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quite your idea. How many of those 2000 episodes

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have you done yourself, Brad? Oh, that's a great

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question. It's definitely more than 1 ,900. And

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then our top correspondent has more than 237

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appearances. That's just for a guess. So you've

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been doing pretty well all of these. It isn't

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a part -time job at all. You've been traveling

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around the U .S., doing them, and reporting from

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a lot of different places around the U .S. and

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outside as well? Well, yeah. I mean, we primarily

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have me anchoring the show from New York. And

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every day I'm speaking to Several of our many,

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many correspondents fanned out across the world.

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So over the course of the last, what is it, seven

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years, we have done segments from literally every

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continent. That includes Antarctica. We've done

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segments featuring an astronaut while in space.

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We've even done a segment with a diver while

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he was underwater setting a Guinness World Record

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for the amount of time spent underwater. So literally,

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heavens and earth. is the expanse of the start

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here destination list. Wow. Wow. And so how do

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you keep fresh every single day? Because doing

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a daily show every single day takes its toll,

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doesn't it? It does. And I think it really is

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just about trying to keep the listener in mind.

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The listener is like first, second, and third

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priority here. And so when we think about start

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here, it's all about... taking what we find to

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be the most interesting news of the day and then

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trying to think about why should you care why

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should the listener actually care we know that

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they get headlines pushed to them on their phone

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every minute of the day why should they actually

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care enough to spend five or six or seven minutes

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on a given topic what makes it interesting what

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pushes it forward for them and i think that's

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what keeps it fresh every day is there are so

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many storylines that feel even though you're

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constantly hearing them they still somehow manage

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to feel nebulous right they still somehow manage

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to feel like beyond your grasp as if you're supposed

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to know a lot of background history that no one

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has told you about and when i'm sitting around

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talking about the news with my colleagues that's

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not necessarily what we're doing there's lots

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of stupid questions between journalists where

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you go like wait wait wait wait how did this

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war start or like what wait what was the law

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that he was supposed to have broken in the first

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place That's what that's where clarity comes

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from. And the thing that I keep hearing from

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listeners over and over again is thank you for

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asking the questions that I would actually ask

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this person if I were there in the moment. And

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to me, that's like the exciting part that makes

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this a dream job is I just keep getting to ask

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those questions of both my own colleagues and

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of of newsmakers. Yeah. Yeah. You can you can

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absolutely see that. How has how has the audience

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grown or changed since 2018? it's interesting

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it's been there are moments where it grows exponentially

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then there are moments where it levels off then

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there are moments where it grows again and then

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it levels off we actually have never really seen

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a real dip in listenership which is interesting

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like we're apparently a very grabby show like

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once you hear us you stick with it we've seen

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that in our in our analytics and then It's so

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interesting, too. I think your audience would

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know this better than anyone. Podcasts beget

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other podcasts. When we have successful ABC podcasts

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where we are featured or where we feature other

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podcasts, those grow with each other exponentially.

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I remember we were doing quite well. We were

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seeing steady growth in listeners, but we were

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still small -ish. Then all of a sudden, ABC's

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The Dropout happened. That was the true crime

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podcast about... Elizabeth Holmes. And we saw

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our numbers spike because we were always being

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mentioned in the ad breaks of that. So that's

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like an example of how rising tide lifts all

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boats, right? And then we've done that for other

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podcasts within ABC, but you really see like

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the kind of ecosystem. And then there's also

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the news itself. So then when they were sort

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of tectonic moments in the news cycle, we see

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our numbers again, take a big rise and then not

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let up. So with this new administration, we've

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actually seen a significant. rise in listenership

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just since Trump started his second term. Can

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you see when a good story or a good episode title

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has driven to more listeners? I mean, certainly,

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I always find myself, I subscribe to a number

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of daily shows. I don't listen to every single

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one, but I do choose them in terms of the episode

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title, in terms of what story is going to be

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covered. Do you see that too? Well, it's weird

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because, as you know, like the downloads, like

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somebody might download it and not necessarily

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listen to it or somebody might download and not

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listen to all of it or something. But we do indeed

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see like a huge uptick in listenership for certain

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episodes. Like I think one of our biggest episodes

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of the year was the Diddy Verdict. I think that's

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what the episode title was called, just the Diddy

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Verdict. Because, again, these are the things

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that you want to know, like, oh, it's been floating

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around in the ether. I want to know more about

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it. How do I just get smarter faster? Oh, great.

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Here's that 20 minute show that I probably already

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subscribed to it. But today I need to make extra

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sure to listen to it. Or that's the day that

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it's being shared a lot amongst friends or it's

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being highlighted in other platforms. So you

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do see the news itself sometimes drive listenership.

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And then you've got diehards who listen. Are

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you audio only still? We are. We are. We have

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had we will do features with videos sometimes

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when there's a particularly interesting. interview

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or something like that we'll make sure to tape

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the video of it and sometimes that gets clipped

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into use even for abc network might use that

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video sometimes as well if it's an exclusive

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interview um but generally we're audio only and

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there's a good reason for that which is like

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we are a produced show like it is very different

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from like two dudes sitting and chatting for

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two and a half hours like this is something that

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we take a lot of pains to condense into the best

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getting uh a grade level talent to call us from

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their pajamas in their closet and that's the

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only way they will talk to me we'll take them

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like that and mercifully we will not ask them

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to put themselves on video for that but that's

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how we end up getting so many of our best interviews

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in the moment is because we are calling people

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at all hours of the day and in all parts of the

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country like often when they're on scene and

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not in a position to have any sort of film Yeah,

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no, indeed, indeed. And you travel around the

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world and travel around the US in particular.

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Are you now being recognized as, you know, as

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the man that does Start Here? Is that something

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that people come up to you and say? Rarely, but

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it has happened. And one of my favorite moments

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was I'm at the Iowa caucuses and I'm interviewing

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a young woman. It's her first time. caucusing

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she's a first -time voter basically she's 18

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years old and she asked me where i'm from and

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i say abc and she says wait are you brad milkey

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this is an 18 year old who listens who manages

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to listen to the news every day and i always

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say this is how you know iowa voters are like

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a different breed is even their high schoolers

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are listening to the new like a daily news podcast

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um but that made me go like oh wow like this

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really does like shape people's warnings in so

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many ways yeah it's always weird And going around,

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obviously, we're not quite the same scale, but

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it's always weird going around a podcast conference

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and having people coming up to you and saying,

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I wake up to you every single morning. And I

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have family members who think they don't need

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to call me or chat with me because they just

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talked to me this morning. It's how they feel

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about it. I haven't heard their voice in weeks.

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But they think that they're off the hook because,

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like you said, it's so intimate that it really

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does feel like you are having a chat. So what

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happens in the next 2 ,000 episodes, Brad? I've

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got so many big dreams, James. So I still continue

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to think that Start Here is at its best when

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it's explaining big, urgent national and international

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news the day that you need context for it. Like

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when October 7th happened in Gaza and in Israel,

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by October 8th, we had a show up explaining here's

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why this was such a big deal. And I still think

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that we can do better as a show in doing unilateral

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coverage from these moments that are unfolding

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as they happen. Generally, I'm the one talking

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to a correspondent in the field, as it should

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be, right? These are our experts that are fanned

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out across the world, and they have this expertise.

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But my dream is that we're able to continue turning

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this into a platform at ABC that is both packaging

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news for you, but also... uh reporting the news

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the very first time out there that we are a news

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gathering and news making platform as well as

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sort of a uh summarizing product and will you

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be doing another 1900 shows in that 2000 shows

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to come I'm in my dream job right now. I truly

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don't know how they've allowed me to do this.

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They took a reporter who had just come off the

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campaign trail, who had just learned what it

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was to be a reporter in the field for the last

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couple years. They said, hey, would you ever

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want to host this podcast? Podcasts are becoming

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interesting. I was like, yeah. Hello, of course.

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and then we've managed to somehow make success

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make it successful and i'm somehow like still

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the host of it uh yeah yes please so i'm very

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uh happy and excited to keep rolling here. There's

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an awful lot of talk at the moment, isn't there,

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about news avoidance and people who don't catch

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up with the news as much as they used to because

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it's kind of, I don't know what the audio equivalent

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of doom scrolling is, but it kind of is a little

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bit like that, isn't it? Is that something that

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you and your team are aware of and want to change

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in some way? Well, very much so. It's almost

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surprising to us sometimes that our numbers have

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actually done so much better over the last year

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or two because we keep hearing from our colleagues

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about how everyone is completely exhausted by

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the news. We hear from our listeners that they're

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exhausted by the news. It's a very real phenomenon.

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And yet people still are like clicking us, which

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is helpful. It shows that we're probably doing

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things in a way that is not too exhausting. But

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it's like very much on my mind when I think about

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how we select our stories. how we report them

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in just like the most straightforward way that

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we can like get people just the facts, ma 'am.

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That's what people should be hearing without

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too much critique or editorializing. And I think

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it's also just important to remember like what

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people want to know. There's the stuff that they

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need to know every day. And there's the stuff

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that they want to know every day. Often they're

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the same. Sometimes they're different and you're

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trying to offer them like a little bit of all

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of the above. So that means that, You might have

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several big political stories today, but we've

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tried very hard not to make this an exclusively

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political show. Or on days when we know that

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there's kind of one big story that's been out

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there all week, of course, we're going to keep

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leading with that. But if there's a way we can

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highlight a story that might not be on your radar,

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we're very much going to take a look at that

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and spend significant time to it, too, in a way

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that's not just like a throwaway. But we always

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are trying to make sure that even our offbeat

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news is not just like... quirky and silly, like

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it still is telling you something interesting

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about the world around you because it's all there

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all the time. Yeah, there's a number of radio

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conferences that I go to and there's a lot of

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talk about constructive journalism. And instead

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of telling the story as if you're telling, you

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know, another really bad thing has happened,

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to actually tell the story in a way that actually

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there is some constructive goodness that comes

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out of all of this. um and yeah and and like

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kind of a respect for all people involved like

00:12:59.950 --> 00:13:02.429
there aren't generally like super villains out

00:13:02.429 --> 00:13:04.690
there right so even if there's like a part of

00:13:04.690 --> 00:13:06.409
the political spectrum or part of the country

00:13:06.409 --> 00:13:08.909
or something that you disagree with no everyone's

00:13:08.909 --> 00:13:11.529
generally coming from a place of good faith like

00:13:11.529 --> 00:13:13.649
most most normal human beings are coming from

00:13:13.649 --> 00:13:15.289
a place of good faith they might just have different

00:13:15.289 --> 00:13:17.289
ideas of how you get there or different assumptions

00:13:17.289 --> 00:13:20.129
of that have now shaped their ideas and i think

00:13:20.129 --> 00:13:22.289
the key is to like pay respect to all of those

00:13:22.289 --> 00:13:24.700
ideas and to treat As many people as you can,

00:13:24.779 --> 00:13:26.120
like they are coming from a place of good faith

00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:28.360
and like we can like figure this out together

00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:31.299
and arrive some sort of doesn't have to be a

00:13:31.299 --> 00:13:32.779
common truth, but at least a common narrative

00:13:32.779 --> 00:13:34.919
as to what the heck is happening. And you mentioned.

00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:38.940
Obviously doing a daily news show, you can't

00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:42.240
necessarily dive into individual stories as deeply

00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.200
as you would like. One of the things that I've

00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:48.620
noticed a number of the other shows that I listen

00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:53.320
to are doing is they are beginning to do longer,

00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:58.899
more investigative shows, really focusing on

00:13:58.899 --> 00:14:03.519
specific stories. part of where Start Here is

00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:06.080
going, or is that part of where you're going

00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:08.460
in terms of what you might be doing in the next

00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:10.879
few years as well? I do think it's really difficult

00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.639
to put together a daily show that covers all

00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:17.539
the news and that makes it all seem fresh. And

00:14:17.539 --> 00:14:19.539
so I actually, I think part of the challenge

00:14:19.539 --> 00:14:21.860
that we've actually decided to stick with is

00:14:21.860 --> 00:14:24.320
the tough challenge of delivering multiple stories

00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.460
a day, unless there is one story that is absolutely

00:14:27.460 --> 00:14:30.240
blocking out the sun. I think it's actually a

00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.139
unique challenge to deliver on multiple stories

00:14:33.139 --> 00:14:35.379
a day, give people a broad sense of what the

00:14:35.379 --> 00:14:37.100
news is that's percolating around them, and to

00:14:37.100 --> 00:14:38.840
do it interestingly in a way that doesn't just

00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:43.019
exhaust everyone. We have, though, done several

00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:45.279
kind of standalone episodes, and we'll often

00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:47.259
do these on a weekend or something like that.

00:14:47.299 --> 00:14:49.840
We think of it more like bonus content than we

00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:54.159
do us supplanting our regular show. And in those

00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.409
sort of bonus episodes... We've had producer

00:14:57.409 --> 00:14:59.350
-led segments where they're going around with

00:14:59.350 --> 00:15:02.429
war reenactors and going on hunting trips with

00:15:02.429 --> 00:15:05.389
people, reporting on these sort of niche interests.

00:15:05.549 --> 00:15:09.950
We've done award -winning work on the specter

00:15:09.950 --> 00:15:14.690
of long COVID in America. We've looked at Americans

00:15:14.690 --> 00:15:16.750
being priced out of the real estate market. So

00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:19.590
we do do these really interesting deep dives

00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:21.830
on things. But generally, I think the key for

00:15:21.830 --> 00:15:25.539
us is to deliver on... our original mission,

00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.639
which is like, it is hard to do multiple stories

00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.860
a day. year after year after year, and we're

00:15:30.860 --> 00:15:32.360
going to keep doing it like an interesting way.

00:15:32.379 --> 00:15:34.340
The last time I saw you was three years ago,

00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:38.600
and I was trying to convince you to come to sunny

00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:43.000
Australia because it was 10 years to the Olympics.

00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:46.840
It's now, what, seven years to the Olympics?

00:15:46.899 --> 00:15:48.639
We've not actually started building anything.

00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:52.539
We're still arguing about budgets and things.

00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:57.029
Are we going to see you down here? covering our

00:15:57.029 --> 00:16:01.340
Olympics at some stage in the future. Los Angeles

00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:04.340
then, James. Well, now you're painting yourself

00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:06.220
into a corner because now we've got to hang out

00:16:06.220 --> 00:16:07.840
in Los Angeles or something like that before

00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.899
then. I would love to go to Australia, man. The

00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:15.179
key for both of us, as you know, is like if you're

00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.299
going to do it, you've got to do it right. So

00:16:16.299 --> 00:16:18.639
you've got to give me like a two -week itinerary,

00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.559
right? I can't just swing in for a week. Exactly

00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:22.960
right. Brad, it's always good to have a chat

00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.259
with you. Thank you so much and well done on

00:16:26.259 --> 00:16:29.470
2 ,000 episodes. thank you so much it's really

00:16:29.470 --> 00:16:32.629
truly a dream to be doing it and it's like been

00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:34.169
a joy to talk to you over these last several

00:16:34.169 --> 00:16:36.029
years since we've been on the scene so thank

00:16:36.029 --> 00:16:36.490
you so much