I'm Brad Milkey, and I'm the host and managing
editor of ABC's daily podcast, Start Here. Now,
you launched that podcast in 2018, but on December
the 1st, you will hit 2 ,000 episodes. That's
quite a hit. I'm exhausted just listening to
you say it, James. How did we get here? It's
incredible. And I'm somebody who had been around
the podcasting scene even before working in ABC
radio. So I know the care it takes to put together
a podcast episode of any sort. And so I think
to myself, oh, it's not just like 2 ,000 episodes.
It's 2 ,000 podcasts that we've put together.
And that sounds just unreasonable. It sounds
unreal when you say it like that. And each one
of those podcasts being significantly, I mean,
I've put more than 2000, but mine are only five
minutes long. And my idea of reporting is not
quite your idea. How many of those 2000 episodes
have you done yourself, Brad? Oh, that's a great
question. It's definitely more than 1 ,900. And
then our top correspondent has more than 237
appearances. That's just for a guess. So you've
been doing pretty well all of these. It isn't
a part -time job at all. You've been traveling
around the U .S., doing them, and reporting from
a lot of different places around the U .S. and
outside as well? Well, yeah. I mean, we primarily
have me anchoring the show from New York. And
every day I'm speaking to Several of our many,
many correspondents fanned out across the world.
So over the course of the last, what is it, seven
years, we have done segments from literally every
continent. That includes Antarctica. We've done
segments featuring an astronaut while in space.
We've even done a segment with a diver while
he was underwater setting a Guinness World Record
for the amount of time spent underwater. So literally,
heavens and earth. is the expanse of the start
here destination list. Wow. Wow. And so how do
you keep fresh every single day? Because doing
a daily show every single day takes its toll,
doesn't it? It does. And I think it really is
just about trying to keep the listener in mind.
The listener is like first, second, and third
priority here. And so when we think about start
here, it's all about... taking what we find to
be the most interesting news of the day and then
trying to think about why should you care why
should the listener actually care we know that
they get headlines pushed to them on their phone
every minute of the day why should they actually
care enough to spend five or six or seven minutes
on a given topic what makes it interesting what
pushes it forward for them and i think that's
what keeps it fresh every day is there are so
many storylines that feel even though you're
constantly hearing them they still somehow manage
to feel nebulous right they still somehow manage
to feel like beyond your grasp as if you're supposed
to know a lot of background history that no one
has told you about and when i'm sitting around
talking about the news with my colleagues that's
not necessarily what we're doing there's lots
of stupid questions between journalists where
you go like wait wait wait wait how did this
war start or like what wait what was the law
that he was supposed to have broken in the first
place That's what that's where clarity comes
from. And the thing that I keep hearing from
listeners over and over again is thank you for
asking the questions that I would actually ask
this person if I were there in the moment. And
to me, that's like the exciting part that makes
this a dream job is I just keep getting to ask
those questions of both my own colleagues and
of of newsmakers. Yeah. Yeah. You can you can
absolutely see that. How has how has the audience
grown or changed since 2018? it's interesting
it's been there are moments where it grows exponentially
then there are moments where it levels off then
there are moments where it grows again and then
it levels off we actually have never really seen
a real dip in listenership which is interesting
like we're apparently a very grabby show like
once you hear us you stick with it we've seen
that in our in our analytics and then It's so
interesting, too. I think your audience would
know this better than anyone. Podcasts beget
other podcasts. When we have successful ABC podcasts
where we are featured or where we feature other
podcasts, those grow with each other exponentially.
I remember we were doing quite well. We were
seeing steady growth in listeners, but we were
still small -ish. Then all of a sudden, ABC's
The Dropout happened. That was the true crime
podcast about... Elizabeth Holmes. And we saw
our numbers spike because we were always being
mentioned in the ad breaks of that. So that's
like an example of how rising tide lifts all
boats, right? And then we've done that for other
podcasts within ABC, but you really see like
the kind of ecosystem. And then there's also
the news itself. So then when they were sort
of tectonic moments in the news cycle, we see
our numbers again, take a big rise and then not
let up. So with this new administration, we've
actually seen a significant. rise in listenership
just since Trump started his second term. Can
you see when a good story or a good episode title
has driven to more listeners? I mean, certainly,
I always find myself, I subscribe to a number
of daily shows. I don't listen to every single
one, but I do choose them in terms of the episode
title, in terms of what story is going to be
covered. Do you see that too? Well, it's weird
because, as you know, like the downloads, like
somebody might download it and not necessarily
listen to it or somebody might download and not
listen to all of it or something. But we do indeed
see like a huge uptick in listenership for certain
episodes. Like I think one of our biggest episodes
of the year was the Diddy Verdict. I think that's
what the episode title was called, just the Diddy
Verdict. Because, again, these are the things
that you want to know, like, oh, it's been floating
around in the ether. I want to know more about
it. How do I just get smarter faster? Oh, great.
Here's that 20 minute show that I probably already
subscribed to it. But today I need to make extra
sure to listen to it. Or that's the day that
it's being shared a lot amongst friends or it's
being highlighted in other platforms. So you
do see the news itself sometimes drive listenership.
And then you've got diehards who listen. Are
you audio only still? We are. We are. We have
had we will do features with videos sometimes
when there's a particularly interesting. interview
or something like that we'll make sure to tape
the video of it and sometimes that gets clipped
into use even for abc network might use that
video sometimes as well if it's an exclusive
interview um but generally we're audio only and
there's a good reason for that which is like
we are a produced show like it is very different
from like two dudes sitting and chatting for
two and a half hours like this is something that
we take a lot of pains to condense into the best
getting uh a grade level talent to call us from
their pajamas in their closet and that's the
only way they will talk to me we'll take them
like that and mercifully we will not ask them
to put themselves on video for that but that's
how we end up getting so many of our best interviews
in the moment is because we are calling people
at all hours of the day and in all parts of the
country like often when they're on scene and
not in a position to have any sort of film Yeah,
no, indeed, indeed. And you travel around the
world and travel around the US in particular.
Are you now being recognized as, you know, as
the man that does Start Here? Is that something
that people come up to you and say? Rarely, but
it has happened. And one of my favorite moments
was I'm at the Iowa caucuses and I'm interviewing
a young woman. It's her first time. caucusing
she's a first -time voter basically she's 18
years old and she asked me where i'm from and
i say abc and she says wait are you brad milkey
this is an 18 year old who listens who manages
to listen to the news every day and i always
say this is how you know iowa voters are like
a different breed is even their high schoolers
are listening to the new like a daily news podcast
um but that made me go like oh wow like this
really does like shape people's warnings in so
many ways yeah it's always weird And going around,
obviously, we're not quite the same scale, but
it's always weird going around a podcast conference
and having people coming up to you and saying,
I wake up to you every single morning. And I
have family members who think they don't need
to call me or chat with me because they just
talked to me this morning. It's how they feel
about it. I haven't heard their voice in weeks.
But they think that they're off the hook because,
like you said, it's so intimate that it really
does feel like you are having a chat. So what
happens in the next 2 ,000 episodes, Brad? I've
got so many big dreams, James. So I still continue
to think that Start Here is at its best when
it's explaining big, urgent national and international
news the day that you need context for it. Like
when October 7th happened in Gaza and in Israel,
by October 8th, we had a show up explaining here's
why this was such a big deal. And I still think
that we can do better as a show in doing unilateral
coverage from these moments that are unfolding
as they happen. Generally, I'm the one talking
to a correspondent in the field, as it should
be, right? These are our experts that are fanned
out across the world, and they have this expertise.
But my dream is that we're able to continue turning
this into a platform at ABC that is both packaging
news for you, but also... uh reporting the news
the very first time out there that we are a news
gathering and news making platform as well as
sort of a uh summarizing product and will you
be doing another 1900 shows in that 2000 shows
to come I'm in my dream job right now. I truly
don't know how they've allowed me to do this.
They took a reporter who had just come off the
campaign trail, who had just learned what it
was to be a reporter in the field for the last
couple years. They said, hey, would you ever
want to host this podcast? Podcasts are becoming
interesting. I was like, yeah. Hello, of course.
and then we've managed to somehow make success
make it successful and i'm somehow like still
the host of it uh yeah yes please so i'm very
uh happy and excited to keep rolling here. There's
an awful lot of talk at the moment, isn't there,
about news avoidance and people who don't catch
up with the news as much as they used to because
it's kind of, I don't know what the audio equivalent
of doom scrolling is, but it kind of is a little
bit like that, isn't it? Is that something that
you and your team are aware of and want to change
in some way? Well, very much so. It's almost
surprising to us sometimes that our numbers have
actually done so much better over the last year
or two because we keep hearing from our colleagues
about how everyone is completely exhausted by
the news. We hear from our listeners that they're
exhausted by the news. It's a very real phenomenon.
And yet people still are like clicking us, which
is helpful. It shows that we're probably doing
things in a way that is not too exhausting. But
it's like very much on my mind when I think about
how we select our stories. how we report them
in just like the most straightforward way that
we can like get people just the facts, ma 'am.
That's what people should be hearing without
too much critique or editorializing. And I think
it's also just important to remember like what
people want to know. There's the stuff that they
need to know every day. And there's the stuff
that they want to know every day. Often they're
the same. Sometimes they're different and you're
trying to offer them like a little bit of all
of the above. So that means that, You might have
several big political stories today, but we've
tried very hard not to make this an exclusively
political show. Or on days when we know that
there's kind of one big story that's been out
there all week, of course, we're going to keep
leading with that. But if there's a way we can
highlight a story that might not be on your radar,
we're very much going to take a look at that
and spend significant time to it, too, in a way
that's not just like a throwaway. But we always
are trying to make sure that even our offbeat
news is not just like... quirky and silly, like
it still is telling you something interesting
about the world around you because it's all there
all the time. Yeah, there's a number of radio
conferences that I go to and there's a lot of
talk about constructive journalism. And instead
of telling the story as if you're telling, you
know, another really bad thing has happened,
to actually tell the story in a way that actually
there is some constructive goodness that comes
out of all of this. um and yeah and and like
kind of a respect for all people involved like
there aren't generally like super villains out
there right so even if there's like a part of
the political spectrum or part of the country
or something that you disagree with no everyone's
generally coming from a place of good faith like
most most normal human beings are coming from
a place of good faith they might just have different
ideas of how you get there or different assumptions
of that have now shaped their ideas and i think
the key is to like pay respect to all of those
ideas and to treat As many people as you can,
like they are coming from a place of good faith
and like we can like figure this out together
and arrive some sort of doesn't have to be a
common truth, but at least a common narrative
as to what the heck is happening. And you mentioned.
Obviously doing a daily news show, you can't
necessarily dive into individual stories as deeply
as you would like. One of the things that I've
noticed a number of the other shows that I listen
to are doing is they are beginning to do longer,
more investigative shows, really focusing on
specific stories. part of where Start Here is
going, or is that part of where you're going
in terms of what you might be doing in the next
few years as well? I do think it's really difficult
to put together a daily show that covers all
the news and that makes it all seem fresh. And
so I actually, I think part of the challenge
that we've actually decided to stick with is
the tough challenge of delivering multiple stories
a day, unless there is one story that is absolutely
blocking out the sun. I think it's actually a
unique challenge to deliver on multiple stories
a day, give people a broad sense of what the
news is that's percolating around them, and to
do it interestingly in a way that doesn't just
exhaust everyone. We have, though, done several
kind of standalone episodes, and we'll often
do these on a weekend or something like that.
We think of it more like bonus content than we
do us supplanting our regular show. And in those
sort of bonus episodes... We've had producer
-led segments where they're going around with
war reenactors and going on hunting trips with
people, reporting on these sort of niche interests.
We've done award -winning work on the specter
of long COVID in America. We've looked at Americans
being priced out of the real estate market. So
we do do these really interesting deep dives
on things. But generally, I think the key for
us is to deliver on... our original mission,
which is like, it is hard to do multiple stories
a day. year after year after year, and we're
going to keep doing it like an interesting way.
The last time I saw you was three years ago,
and I was trying to convince you to come to sunny
Australia because it was 10 years to the Olympics.
It's now, what, seven years to the Olympics?
We've not actually started building anything.
We're still arguing about budgets and things.
Are we going to see you down here? covering our
Olympics at some stage in the future. Los Angeles
then, James. Well, now you're painting yourself
into a corner because now we've got to hang out
in Los Angeles or something like that before
then. I would love to go to Australia, man. The
key for both of us, as you know, is like if you're
going to do it, you've got to do it right. So
you've got to give me like a two -week itinerary,
right? I can't just swing in for a week. Exactly
right. Brad, it's always good to have a chat
with you. Thank you so much and well done on
2 ,000 episodes. thank you so much it's really
truly a dream to be doing it and it's like been
a joy to talk to you over these last several
years since we've been on the scene so thank
you so much