WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.080 we've launched this literally this week so we 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:04.160 went live with it on wednesday the idea of it 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:06.360 sort of the initial meetings and stuff were happening 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:09.140 sort of january time but i i had a big realization 00:00:09.140 --> 00:00:11.519 about this time last year that i've been in the 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:13.539 podcasting space for a long while but mainly 00:00:13.539 --> 00:00:16.219 in the paid for sort of production realm looks 00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:18.160 like this is the thin end of the wedge when i 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:20.570 was looking at what the likes of Peter Crouch 00:00:20.570 --> 00:00:22.730 doing and what Gary's doing with Goldhanger and 00:00:22.730 --> 00:00:24.550 what the fellow studios are doing. There's a 00:00:24.550 --> 00:00:26.850 big opportunity here, but the bigger opportunity 00:00:26.850 --> 00:00:29.750 comes with obviously bigger risks and therefore 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:32.149 bigger rewards. I was just at a point, I was 00:00:32.149 --> 00:00:34.189 like, I can't just keep doing the pay -for -production 00:00:34.189 --> 00:00:38.280 thing as it stands. I wrote a blog about... five 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:40.320 years ago, which I think James actually published 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:42.820 in Pod News. And I was like, why doesn't Peter 00:00:42.820 --> 00:00:44.939 Crouch leave the BBC and run his own thing? Because 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:47.359 if he owned the IP of it, he'd earn loads more 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:49.159 money. Ironically, I've subsequently found out 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:51.340 that Peter Crouch actually read that blog. I'm 00:00:51.340 --> 00:00:53.039 not saying that's why he left the BBC and started 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.560 his own thing. Take it, James. Claim it is your 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:59.880 idea. Don't be shy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:02.880 that was the rationale around it, essentially. 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.099 There's a massive opportunity in podcasting right 00:01:05.099 --> 00:01:07.959 now. And I think we're very uniquely placed in 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:10.719 terms of the celebrity talent we can reach, plus 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:12.739 the experience that we've got, that we can actually 00:01:12.739 --> 00:01:15.819 help people to really maximise the value opportunity 00:01:15.819 --> 00:01:17.900 that there is right now for people to own their 00:01:17.900 --> 00:01:20.799 IP and build platforms rather than just having 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:23.540 a podcast as a paid for, you know, 500 quid, 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:26.239 1 ,000 quid session talent sort of thing. So 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.030 why pivot? Because, I mean, obviously, Kara Swisher 00:01:29.030 --> 00:01:31.719 might be coming after you. Yeah, so Pivot Productions 00:01:31.719 --> 00:01:34.079 Group, I very carefully checked. There is nothing 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:36.719 that is copywritten. It was also for me. So I 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:38.640 got into this business with who's obviously very 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:40.579 well known for football. He's very well known 00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:42.079 as playing for England, playing for Tottenham, 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.920 Newcastle. He's also a very well known broadcaster. 00:01:44.980 --> 00:01:46.859 He's very well known that he left that broadcaster 00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:49.480 very swiftly last year when he was unceremoniously 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:51.519 sacked. So we sat there one day. I was like, 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:52.959 well, this is a pivot for me because I've been 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:54.180 in the production space, but it's a different 00:01:54.180 --> 00:01:55.519 direction. He went, well, it's definitely a pivot 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.739 for me. As we all know why. So I was like, do 00:01:57.739 --> 00:01:59.459 you know, I actually like Pivot. And also he 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:01.629 played. in central midfield which is the pivot 00:02:01.629 --> 00:02:03.849 role i was like this just works so it's got a 00:02:03.849 --> 00:02:06.969 couple of double entendres for us okay cool now 00:02:06.969 --> 00:02:11.069 so jermaine genus yourself um you you say you've 00:02:11.069 --> 00:02:13.969 got access to numerous people so what is the 00:02:13.969 --> 00:02:17.650 goal i mean you know is it just to create a platform 00:02:17.650 --> 00:02:21.129 for celebrities and then monetize it or you know 00:02:21.129 --> 00:02:23.349 you said it's wider than podcasting i think one 00:02:23.349 --> 00:02:25.469 of the things we are seeing now and it'll be 00:02:25.469 --> 00:02:28.169 lovely uh hear your take on it which is you know 00:02:28.569 --> 00:02:30.569 audio only podcasting so i assume you're going 00:02:30.569 --> 00:02:32.389 to be video i assume you're going to be multi 00:02:32.389 --> 00:02:34.789 -platform so so where are you going to start 00:02:34.789 --> 00:02:38.930 what's the first show and what's the format yeah 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:40.729 so we're calling it visualized because that's 00:02:40.729 --> 00:02:42.590 what the cool kids in shoreditch are calling 00:02:42.590 --> 00:02:47.000 it apparently yes Yeah, OK, fine. Oh, maybe I'll 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:49.120 retract that then and we'll just go video. So, 00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:51.199 yeah, so it's already up and running literally 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:53.379 again as of this week. So the first show we've 00:02:53.379 --> 00:02:55.080 launched, Jermaine is one of the co -hosts of 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.560 it. The other co -host is famous international 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.580 heavyweight boxing legend Derek Chisora, who 00:03:00.580 --> 00:03:03.240 is, again, a very interesting character, hence 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.759 the name why it fitted under the Pivot brand. 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:07.659 And we've launched a show called Let Me Tell 00:03:07.659 --> 00:03:09.819 You Something. And it's really an opportunity 00:03:09.819 --> 00:03:12.259 for Derek and Jermaine are actually really good 00:03:12.259 --> 00:03:14.039 friends, but people don't know about it. So they're 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:15.909 basically getting on. their celebrity pals to 00:03:15.909 --> 00:03:17.750 have conversations that you wouldn't otherwise 00:03:17.750 --> 00:03:20.189 hear in a podcast format because obviously they 00:03:20.189 --> 00:03:22.509 know stuff about each other that other people 00:03:22.509 --> 00:03:24.210 wouldn't ordinarily so we've already recorded 00:03:24.210 --> 00:03:26.270 the first sort of 10 episodes we've got katherine 00:03:26.270 --> 00:03:29.490 ryan eddie hearn lethal bizzle joe cole michael 00:03:29.490 --> 00:03:31.349 venn and page were some really really cool people 00:03:31.349 --> 00:03:33.810 but to that extent like michael venn and page 00:03:33.810 --> 00:03:35.650 came on and normally i've only ever heard him 00:03:35.650 --> 00:03:38.430 talk about The UFC Cajun fighting, he talked 00:03:38.430 --> 00:03:40.990 about his conversion to Islam, which is a really 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:43.509 interesting conversation that you wouldn't necessarily 00:03:43.509 --> 00:03:46.150 think you're going to get on a podcast with MVP. 00:03:46.530 --> 00:03:49.310 Definitely not one that's co -hosted by Jermaine 00:03:49.310 --> 00:03:50.770 and Derek as well. But that's what we want to 00:03:50.770 --> 00:03:52.930 do, create content opportunities that surprise 00:03:52.930 --> 00:03:55.050 people. And to your question about what's the 00:03:55.050 --> 00:03:57.590 bigger picture here, as I say, I spotted the 00:03:57.590 --> 00:04:00.189 opportunity in 2021 with celebrity talent. I 00:04:00.189 --> 00:04:02.909 was like, why don't people just own the IP? But 00:04:02.909 --> 00:04:05.379 it has to be bigger. than just the show it's 00:04:05.379 --> 00:04:07.479 a monetized the audio listens via programmatic 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.159 inserted ad sponsorship etc but where i think 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.580 the opportunity is the biggest at the moment 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:16.000 is building that community And I know community 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.759 has been the buzzword for marketing since 2023. 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.259 I think it was like word of the year, wasn't 00:04:21.259 --> 00:04:23.019 it, in the marketing space. But people who get 00:04:23.019 --> 00:04:26.879 it genuinely right and can have opportunities 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:28.920 for their listeners and their viewers and their 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:30.720 watchers to come and see them in a live show, 00:04:30.819 --> 00:04:33.759 but also do watch alongs and have an opportunity 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:35.720 to come down to recording sessions and where 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:38.079 we're uniquely placed, because obviously we've 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:39.980 already got some sort of celebrity quote unquote 00:04:39.980 --> 00:04:42.019 clout in terms of the people behind the business. 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.600 But also I've run lots and lots and lots of podcasts. 00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:46.779 So we know you're going to get a really good 00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:48.439 show. So I think it's going to give us the opportunity 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:52.540 to show talent in a different way and give them 00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:54.019 the opportunity to be seen in different ways 00:04:54.019 --> 00:04:55.319 as well. Because that's another big thing I've 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:59.319 done in my career is help people to really communicate 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:01.240 the brand message that they want to communicate. 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.879 And when you understand what you're trying to 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.439 put out there as the perception, you build content 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:09.959 around that. So it's definitely not for us the 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.120 case of. Like some sort of big networks of anyone 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:14.680 who's famous and it was got a bit of a TikTok 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:16.319 following. Let's get them on and do a podcast 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.000 because we can monetize it for five minutes. 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:19.519 I don't think everyone should have a podcast 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:22.439 as a man who's launched 187 for clients around 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:24.819 the world in the last seven years. Should everyone 00:05:24.819 --> 00:05:26.819 have a podcast? No, absolutely not. You know, 00:05:26.860 --> 00:05:29.379 some people are only interested in 15 second 00:05:29.379 --> 00:05:31.240 short form TikTok videos, and that's absolutely 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:33.019 fine as a medium. And that's not to disregard 00:05:33.019 --> 00:05:35.540 it. But that doesn't mean that short form, short 00:05:35.540 --> 00:05:38.779 attention audience wants or needs to come across 00:05:38.779 --> 00:05:41.430 for longer term. You know, somebody's dancing 00:05:41.430 --> 00:05:43.790 to TikTok trends. Does anyone care about their 00:05:43.790 --> 00:05:46.149 thoughts on, you know, deep -seated psychology 00:05:46.149 --> 00:05:48.629 and manifestation for 45 minutes? Probably not. 00:05:48.870 --> 00:05:51.709 Just got visions of Derek Chisore doing TikTok 00:05:51.709 --> 00:05:54.449 dances now. I'm sorry. That's going to happen. 00:05:55.769 --> 00:05:58.329 I'm not going to be the person to force him to 00:05:58.329 --> 00:06:00.009 do it. Someone braver and bigger than me is going 00:06:00.009 --> 00:06:01.550 to have to. I was going to say, I wouldn't ask 00:06:01.550 --> 00:06:05.040 him either. So, okay, so we get that. One of 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:06.860 the interesting trends that James and I are talking 00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:09.819 about, obviously, is more and more content going 00:06:09.819 --> 00:06:12.459 behind paywalls. People are beginning to value 00:06:12.459 --> 00:06:16.079 quality content, finally. You know, podcasting, 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:17.720 I've always called the second -class digital 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:20.920 citizen because the expectation is free with 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:23.819 ads wrapped around it, right, as the way of monetizing 00:06:23.819 --> 00:06:27.139 it. And advertising isn't generating for most 00:06:27.139 --> 00:06:30.019 people the type of return they need in order 00:06:30.019 --> 00:06:33.269 to grow. So we are seeing a lot of money being 00:06:33.269 --> 00:06:35.889 put into Patreon, Memberful, we're seeing Substack, 00:06:35.889 --> 00:06:38.329 we're seeing a lot of, you talked about watch 00:06:38.329 --> 00:06:41.610 -alongs again, people paying, super chats. So 00:06:41.610 --> 00:06:45.949 it's very interesting. Zateo is Mehdi Hassan, 00:06:46.029 --> 00:06:49.529 who I really love, went onto Substack. We had 00:06:49.529 --> 00:06:52.110 a couple of people talk about not putting their 00:06:52.110 --> 00:06:54.589 content onto YouTube because they want to own 00:06:54.589 --> 00:06:56.850 the IP. They don't want to lose control of it. 00:06:56.970 --> 00:07:02.300 So as the IP creator, what platform are you going 00:07:02.300 --> 00:07:05.860 to put your content through as the filter? Is 00:07:05.860 --> 00:07:07.699 it going to be on Substack? Are you going to 00:07:07.699 --> 00:07:09.240 put it to Patreon? Are you going to leave it 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:11.819 to the open podcasting world? Are you going to 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:14.589 go to YouTube? Where are you? I think moving 00:07:14.589 --> 00:07:16.670 forward, and it depends on a show -to -show basis, 00:07:16.730 --> 00:07:19.149 I think one thing that we still not cracked in 00:07:19.149 --> 00:07:20.970 the podcasting space, and I've been obsessed 00:07:20.970 --> 00:07:23.189 with podcasts since 2010, and I've never seen 00:07:23.189 --> 00:07:25.949 the discoverability challenge. I know you guys 00:07:25.949 --> 00:07:28.509 talk about it regularly on the show, but the 00:07:28.509 --> 00:07:30.250 person who cracks that discoverability challenge 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:32.470 is going to do very well for themselves. But 00:07:32.470 --> 00:07:34.329 we're not there yet. So fundamentally, I'm of 00:07:34.329 --> 00:07:36.949 the belief that you need to go and build an audience. 00:07:37.389 --> 00:07:40.290 You need to go and be where people are. If people 00:07:40.290 --> 00:07:42.110 like Apple Podcasts, even though they haven't 00:07:42.110 --> 00:07:43.980 done anything very innovative, in the last 20 00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:46.160 years, apart from making Battersea Powers Apple 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.699 for a night, then so be it. And I'm one of those 00:07:48.699 --> 00:07:50.399 people, by the way. I know that Spotify's got 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:52.620 a bunch of new shiny bells and whistles and they 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:55.079 serve me up clips and blah, blah, blah. I just 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:56.699 don't like it as a user experience. I prefer 00:07:56.699 --> 00:07:58.259 Apple. So we need to be on Apple. We need to 00:07:58.259 --> 00:08:00.480 be on Spotify. We need to be on YouTube. However, 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:03.579 there will be extensions and brand extensions 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:05.959 which will be put behind paywalls, which will 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:07.620 be behind subscriptions. But I think it's also 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:10.980 got to fit. So something like... Let me tell 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:12.959 you something, which is a very varied entertainment 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.420 -based podcast. I don't know, because one week 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:18.220 we've got, you know, Catherine Ryan, who's obviously 00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:20.680 a massive comedian. Then we'll have UFC, then 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:22.399 we'll have football, then we'll have, you know, 00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:24.899 music with Lethal Bizzle. I don't think you're 00:08:24.899 --> 00:08:26.279 going to get the sort of audience that's going 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:27.740 to go, right, I'm going to pay for the additional 00:08:27.740 --> 00:08:30.459 content because it's so varied. However, obviously 00:08:30.459 --> 00:08:32.360 with Jermaine's background, we're already sort 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.120 of working on a slate of shows at the moment. 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.539 Next one being football being an obvious place 00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:38.740 for us to go, because again, there's a big sort 00:08:38.740 --> 00:08:40.899 of market, a big market opportunity. With that, 00:08:40.940 --> 00:08:43.000 I do think that there will be a lot of additional. 00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:46.759 revenue streams that could potentially be things 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:49.039 like you know being behind a paywall would it 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.059 be a patreon would it be if we're going to bring 00:08:51.059 --> 00:08:53.179 in an element of fantasy football would we let 00:08:53.179 --> 00:08:55.639 people join our league would we come and do watch 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:57.080 alongs we would let people come and do you know 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:58.960 could we do something with the ballers league 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:01.080 for example well i think that lends itself more 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:03.159 towards it one of the big things and you know 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:04.720 they haven't really the will but i think the 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:07.659 rest of this football has been very much driven 00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:10.679 the growth of that show via a newsletter i mean 00:09:11.049 --> 00:09:12.830 Again, they haven't reinvented the wheel. Newsletters 00:09:12.830 --> 00:09:14.730 have been a thing, but podcasters haven't traditionally 00:09:14.730 --> 00:09:16.870 used them. Does a show like Let Me Tell You Something 00:09:16.870 --> 00:09:18.929 need a newsletter? No, I don't think it does. 00:09:19.049 --> 00:09:21.049 Does one about football? Yeah, I think it will. 00:09:21.149 --> 00:09:23.230 So we're going to do it on a case -by -case and 00:09:23.230 --> 00:09:25.549 a show -by -show basis. We won't be going one 00:09:25.549 --> 00:09:27.649 -size -fits -all. Right, let's chuck everything 00:09:27.649 --> 00:09:29.929 onto all the platforms for six months and then 00:09:29.929 --> 00:09:31.529 we'll do a half an episode and the other half 00:09:31.529 --> 00:09:32.830 you have to get on Patreon because I just don't 00:09:32.830 --> 00:09:34.669 think it's going to work in that format, really. 00:09:35.110 --> 00:09:38.509 Yeah, you will hear on Pod News Weekly in the 00:09:38.509 --> 00:09:41.490 coming weeks, I'm a very auntie. patreon and 00:09:41.490 --> 00:09:43.269 member for in the way that it's done i think 00:09:43.269 --> 00:09:46.289 you split your audience and i think what you're 00:09:46.289 --> 00:09:48.710 asking your audience to do and the creator to 00:09:48.710 --> 00:09:51.990 do is have an open account then a private account 00:09:51.990 --> 00:09:54.889 and then go left and right it needs to be in 00:09:54.889 --> 00:09:56.769 one place at one time but we'll we'll talk about 00:09:56.769 --> 00:09:59.950 that in the future but so given given that you 00:09:59.950 --> 00:10:01.970 talked about you know goldhanger and the rest 00:10:01.970 --> 00:10:05.389 is is their suite of podcasts are you going to 00:10:05.389 --> 00:10:07.750 go through the moniker of naming all your shows 00:10:07.750 --> 00:10:11.389 in a very similar way to get a brand stable environment 00:10:11.389 --> 00:10:13.850 of them so there's brand recognition or are you 00:10:13.850 --> 00:10:17.830 going to go and individualize your shows but 00:10:17.830 --> 00:10:20.049 the plan is to individualize them because the 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:22.570 people who are behind them are all individuals 00:10:22.570 --> 00:10:26.289 i think what goal hanger accidentally hit on 00:10:26.289 --> 00:10:28.970 with one show name really working it's been a 00:10:28.970 --> 00:10:31.389 brilliant bit of branding brilliant to be fair 00:10:31.389 --> 00:10:33.610 like our first episode sorry our first show let 00:10:33.610 --> 00:10:35.950 me tell you something like that lends itself 00:10:35.950 --> 00:10:37.370 really nicely let me tell you something about 00:10:37.370 --> 00:10:38.690 football let me tell you something about boxing 00:10:38.690 --> 00:10:40.950 let me tell you something about but we'd already 00:10:40.950 --> 00:10:43.740 sort of And brokered the deal in a way that that 00:10:43.740 --> 00:10:46.019 wasn't going to work for us. So because there's 00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:47.519 actually one of the sponsorship networks who 00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:49.620 were in initial talks with like, that's a brilliant 00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:51.659 brand and brand extension. I was like, yeah, 00:10:51.779 --> 00:10:53.720 it really is annoyingly, but we can't really 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:56.980 use it in that instance. I also think that I 00:10:56.980 --> 00:11:00.299 think that the rest is as a brand is good because 00:11:00.299 --> 00:11:02.960 all the shows are brilliant. I don't think you 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:05.519 necessarily, you know, maybe 2 % of that audience 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:08.460 growth is down to it being part of the rest is 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:10.639 stable. The rest of it is down to it just being 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:13.080 really, really good content. So, yeah, we're 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:15.559 going to go down the individual option. Had I 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.100 have brokered the IP rights agreement, well, 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:19.840 let me tell you something, that might be a different 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:23.100 conversation, but hindsight is 20 -20. It is 00:11:23.100 --> 00:11:26.000 indeed. Now, look, going forward then, so... 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:28.799 How big do you think you want this to be? Are 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:30.519 you going to be stateside? Are you going to go 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:34.360 international language? Where's the sky and the 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:38.620 limit? I can't say it's going international language 00:11:38.620 --> 00:11:40.379 because, to be honest, it's just not a space 00:11:40.379 --> 00:11:41.779 that I've been in. But this is where I have to 00:11:41.779 --> 00:11:44.279 be really careful because I've been making podcasts 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.740 since 2017. As I mentioned, I've launched 187 00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:49.879 shows for clients around the world. I operate 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:52.620 traditionally in the B2B. paid for production 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:55.100 space so clients like a ted baker for example 00:11:55.100 --> 00:11:56.500 we've done their show earlier this year they'll 00:11:56.500 --> 00:11:58.259 come to us go we want a podcast and we make it 00:11:58.259 --> 00:12:01.100 based on making really good content but this 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:03.860 whole new space has got new opportunities so 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:06.779 i'm being very mindful to bring my you know so 00:12:06.779 --> 00:12:08.460 and i've been around the radio and the branding 00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:10.980 game for over 20 years i'm very mindful to bring 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:14.000 all that experience but also not bring my uh 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:17.399 my preconceived ideas to a certain extent but 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.649 i think that the pie of UK and English language 00:12:20.649 --> 00:12:23.509 podcast is big enough in the here and now. Will 00:12:23.509 --> 00:12:25.590 there be offshoots into other countries? Yeah, 00:12:25.610 --> 00:12:28.070 for sure. You know, would we do something around 00:12:28.070 --> 00:12:30.610 a particular sporting example? Again, with Jermaine's 00:12:30.610 --> 00:12:32.129 background in football, it makes sense that we 00:12:32.129 --> 00:12:34.490 would have an offshoot podcast for, you know, 00:12:34.509 --> 00:12:35.690 if we'd have got our act together a bit quicker, 00:12:35.809 --> 00:12:38.129 FIFA World Club Championships, for example. Will 00:12:38.129 --> 00:12:39.570 we do something for the Euros and the World Cup? 00:12:39.649 --> 00:12:42.950 Yes, we'll do that. But I think we will be plenty 00:12:42.950 --> 00:12:47.389 busy enough without needing to venture into sort 00:12:47.389 --> 00:12:49.210 of like... different languages and that kind 00:12:49.210 --> 00:12:51.710 of stuff for me personally and again this is 00:12:51.710 --> 00:12:53.889 you know just a personal choice i don't want 00:12:53.889 --> 00:12:56.049 to have an acast number of shows under our stable 00:12:56.049 --> 00:12:57.970 you know i don't want to be responsible for thousands 00:12:57.970 --> 00:13:01.029 of shows i love the idea of a dozen or a couple 00:13:01.029 --> 00:13:03.350 of dozen really really brilliant shows that are 00:13:03.350 --> 00:13:05.490 very well curated that have got a great team 00:13:05.490 --> 00:13:07.970 around them i've got brilliant producer short 00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:10.789 form editor exec producer that's where i see 00:13:10.789 --> 00:13:13.029 it being i love the for me if i'm looking at 00:13:13.029 --> 00:13:14.429 it now in the next sort of where do we want to 00:13:14.429 --> 00:13:19.000 go in 36 months i'm looking more at goal hanger 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:23.000 flight studio fellas studios rather than sort 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.700 of tried to become wandry i guess yeah and i 00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:29.179 mean i mean wandry being you know the prime example 00:13:29.179 --> 00:13:32.100 that then sells out to amazon and you know and 00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:37.490 has the 300 podcasts in its stable um What keeps 00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:39.870 you awake at night? What's the thing that worries 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:42.830 you? Is it market saturation? Are you going into 00:13:42.830 --> 00:13:45.070 a market that's a very congested space? Is it 00:13:45.070 --> 00:13:49.850 a revenue growth? Do you fear that we're plateauing 00:13:49.850 --> 00:13:52.350 or there's much more growth to come from podcasting? 00:13:52.350 --> 00:13:54.190 What keeps you awake at night when you start 00:13:54.190 --> 00:13:58.629 this idea? I don't think anything really keeps 00:13:58.629 --> 00:14:00.230 me up at night other than just literally the 00:14:00.230 --> 00:14:02.549 workload of launching a new show. Anyone who's 00:14:02.549 --> 00:14:04.730 done this before knows how much work goes into 00:14:04.730 --> 00:14:06.330 it when you add into the fact that you've got 00:14:06.830 --> 00:14:08.370 sort of big name talent and you've got lots of 00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:10.169 logistics and there's a team involved in it and 00:14:10.169 --> 00:14:11.570 all that kind of stuff. So logistically, it's 00:14:11.570 --> 00:14:14.350 been a very fraught couple of months. But in 00:14:14.350 --> 00:14:16.909 terms of what keeps me up at night in terms of 00:14:16.909 --> 00:14:19.769 from a fear perspective, I think we've just got 00:14:19.769 --> 00:14:21.750 so much further to go with podcasts. You look 00:14:21.750 --> 00:14:24.309 at all the stats, you know, still under 50 % 00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:27.269 of people are listening on a monthly basis. It's 00:14:27.269 --> 00:14:29.149 just over a quarter of people listening on a 00:14:29.149 --> 00:14:32.730 weekly basis. I still think we're not quite blue 00:14:32.730 --> 00:14:34.629 ocean in the podcasting space, but we're definitely 00:14:34.629 --> 00:14:36.710 not red ocean. We're maybe like a bit of a murky, 00:14:36.710 --> 00:14:40.690 bluey purple, realistically. But I also think 00:14:40.690 --> 00:14:43.929 that the cream will always rise to the top. It 00:14:43.929 --> 00:14:46.830 doesn't matter how busy the space gets. Great 00:14:46.830 --> 00:14:48.970 shows will find an audience and there's a great 00:14:48.970 --> 00:14:50.629 opportunity. And the brilliant thing with how 00:14:50.629 --> 00:14:53.289 we're doing it in terms of shared ownership with 00:14:53.289 --> 00:14:55.470 our talent and shared IP with our talent is that 00:14:55.470 --> 00:14:57.649 everyone's got a vested interest to pull as hard 00:14:57.649 --> 00:14:59.950 as each other in the same direction. And we're 00:14:59.950 --> 00:15:01.889 also in a really fortunate position because we've 00:15:01.889 --> 00:15:04.720 got... you know, a sort of a, we've already had 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.000 three or four people literally the last day go, 00:15:07.100 --> 00:15:08.879 oh, it's amazing what you're doing. Can we work 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.539 for you? Three out of those four are completely 00:15:10.539 --> 00:15:12.940 not right for us as a fit. So we're in a great 00:15:12.940 --> 00:15:14.820 fortunate position because we're bootstrapping 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:17.159 it and we're not taking on VC money to get this 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.460 up and running. We can decide who and what we 00:15:19.460 --> 00:15:21.840 want to work on really. So it's just the only 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.200 thing that I guess would keep me up at night 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.600 is the excitement around the opportunity and 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:29.120 how big this can be really. Excellent. So that's 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:30.940 the way to do it. Stay awake at night thinking 00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:33.360 of big dreams. That's better than, oh my God. 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.519 Than fear. Yeah. James, look, congratulations 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:39.059 on Pivot. Tell everyone if they want to find 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:42.259 out more about it, where would they go? Thank 00:15:42.259 --> 00:15:44.679 you, Sam. So they can go to pivotproductionsgroup 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.440 .co .uk for more information. You can go and 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.139 check out our first show on the slate, which 00:15:50.139 --> 00:15:51.879 is Let Me Tell You Something, which is on Apple, 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.620 Spotify and YouTube and not behind any paywalls. 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.960 Excellent. James Burt, thank you so much, mate. 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:58.100 Good luck and congratulations.