WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:02.560 So I'm Roger Nairn. I'm the co -founder and CEO 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:05.559 of JAR Podcast Solutions, which is formally known 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:07.860 as JAR Audio. Yeah, so I saw something on LinkedIn 00:00:07.860 --> 00:00:11.080 last week saying that JAR Audio is going away 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.320 and it's gone away now. Tell us about that. Yeah, 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:15.859 so I mean, you know, we're an eight -year -old 00:00:15.859 --> 00:00:18.500 company. We originally were calling ourselves 00:00:18.500 --> 00:00:21.210 JAR Audio. Part of it is obviously the fact that 00:00:21.210 --> 00:00:25.969 podcast is evolving, audio and video. We do all 00:00:25.969 --> 00:00:27.649 of that. We do everything when it comes to the 00:00:27.649 --> 00:00:30.449 clients that we work with. So there's that, which 00:00:30.449 --> 00:00:33.750 is the simple answer. The larger, more sort of 00:00:33.750 --> 00:00:36.329 structural and strategic answer for us as an 00:00:36.329 --> 00:00:41.310 agency is because, again, because the industry 00:00:41.310 --> 00:00:44.570 is evolving so much, we're getting asked a lot 00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:47.640 more. difficult questions from the clients we 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.259 work with specifically cmos and brand leaders 00:00:50.259 --> 00:00:52.740 and they all want to know sort of what is this 00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:55.359 podcast going to do for my brand and you know 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:57.259 the great thing is that we've always had an answer 00:00:57.259 --> 00:01:00.439 for that we've always been able to you know create 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:02.960 great podcasts that happen to solve different 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:04.659 business challenges meet their business goals 00:01:04.659 --> 00:01:07.920 and so the the podcast solution the solution 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.739 side to it all is is something that we've always 00:01:10.739 --> 00:01:14.079 been doing which is solving solving business 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:17.319 challenges with podcasts. So you have a new system 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:19.900 as part of this. It's the launch of the JAR system, 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:24.019 which luckily stands for Job, Audience and Result. 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:27.260 Exactly. Tell me about what that system is and 00:01:27.260 --> 00:01:30.340 how it works with you. Absolutely. So everything 00:01:30.340 --> 00:01:32.280 that we look at, we look at through the lens 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:35.680 of this JAR system. As you said, Job, Audience 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:38.700 and Result. So everything starts with a job. 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.920 When we sit down with a... know a prospective 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:44.239 client we always ask them you know what is the 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:46.299 job that this podcast needs to be doing for you 00:01:46.299 --> 00:01:49.260 and specifically we work with brands enterprise 00:01:49.260 --> 00:01:52.799 brands mid -sized brands and you know going back 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.120 to the you know my original point of the industry 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.489 changing you know it used to be that Podcasts 00:01:57.489 --> 00:02:01.230 were sort of a nice to have, something that brands 00:02:01.230 --> 00:02:03.469 were testing out and playing with. Now they're 00:02:03.469 --> 00:02:06.510 seeing the value in a podcast playing a key role 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:09.909 in their marketing ecosystem. But that doesn't 00:02:09.909 --> 00:02:12.189 mean that it can just sit there and be a fun 00:02:12.189 --> 00:02:15.090 little toy to play with. It actually has to have 00:02:15.090 --> 00:02:17.210 an ROI behind it. So what does it need to do? 00:02:18.050 --> 00:02:20.370 Let's say you're a brand that needs to engage 00:02:20.370 --> 00:02:23.009 with a specific audience, or let's say you want 00:02:23.009 --> 00:02:25.469 to increase your thought leadership, or you need 00:02:25.469 --> 00:02:27.729 to... educate an audience on something or maybe 00:02:27.729 --> 00:02:30.610 you just need to engage with them via you know 00:02:30.610 --> 00:02:33.430 great entertainment that's the job you know that's 00:02:33.430 --> 00:02:36.189 the job that this podcast needs to do so then 00:02:36.189 --> 00:02:38.250 there's the audience now obviously we want to 00:02:38.250 --> 00:02:40.330 know who is it that this podcast is meant for 00:02:40.330 --> 00:02:44.150 but more specifically you know how are they engaging 00:02:44.150 --> 00:02:47.169 with contact content these days what other podcasts 00:02:47.169 --> 00:02:49.389 do they like you know what are the other things 00:02:49.389 --> 00:02:51.889 that we need to know about them in order to truly 00:02:51.889 --> 00:02:53.590 create something that's you know of high value 00:02:53.590 --> 00:02:56.699 to them And then there's the result. So at the 00:02:56.699 --> 00:03:00.020 end of the day, what can we point to to say this 00:03:00.020 --> 00:03:02.560 podcast was successful? How can we measure that? 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.479 We work with a bunch of incredible partners that 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:09.680 help us measure, but also looking at all the 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:11.439 different analytics and everything that we have 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:14.180 access to these days as an industry. We're building 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:18.020 custom stacks, depending on the clients we're 00:03:18.020 --> 00:03:20.900 working with, that allows us to point to that 00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:23.520 success. But then there's the success of the 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:26.840 podcast. But also what we want to be able to 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.800 consistently deliver on is how is this podcast 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.819 impacting the brand specifically? And that's 00:03:32.819 --> 00:03:34.659 something we're always looking at. And so how 00:03:34.659 --> 00:03:36.599 are you measuring some of those results? I mean, 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.439 what are you going back to a client with and 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.280 saying this was a successful thing because X? 00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:44.860 you know typical typical marketer answer but 00:03:44.860 --> 00:03:48.479 it it depends um you know and everything is going 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:50.280 to be everything is going to be unique and different 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:53.379 for a client but um you know a lot of times we're 00:03:53.379 --> 00:03:55.680 measuring brand lift so we're working with uh 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:58.240 you know signal hills of the world who are helping 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.860 us with brand lift studies um we're obviously 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:04.479 looking at you know uh the uh qualitative and 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.860 quantitative side of podcasting so we're looking 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:09.219 at obviously the quantitative side which is you 00:04:09.219 --> 00:04:10.900 know downloads and and the actual engagement 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:13.620 rate we're looking at you know listen to rate 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:15.479 you know the consumption side of it all but then 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:17.480 we're also on the qualitative side looking at 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:20.040 you know reviews and comments and we're running 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:23.019 surveys and we're doing everything that we need 00:04:23.019 --> 00:04:25.720 to be doing in order to you know get as much 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:28.639 you know um input from that audience and feedback 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.839 from that audience and filtering it back into 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.339 the project but also we are using a ton of different 00:04:34.339 --> 00:04:37.860 stacks uh to measure conversions we're you know 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:40.319 doing different things to connect the actual 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.560 podcast to the brand itself. They're measuring 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.959 different impacts the brand is having on trust 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.560 and authority via different surveys that we're 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:53.139 doing. And we're also able to measure things 00:04:53.139 --> 00:04:56.920 like loyalty and things like more likelihood 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:00.379 to purchase from or more likelihood to engage 00:05:00.379 --> 00:05:04.040 with. via survey as well i i'm sure that uh many 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:06.139 of the people who are enjoying this podcast um 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:08.199 i'm sure that the one person who's enjoying this 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:11.779 podcast is curious about brand lift um because 00:05:11.779 --> 00:05:14.420 i hear that phrase an awful lot to be honest 00:05:14.420 --> 00:05:18.839 i don't know what it means what does what does 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.680 yeah i mean brand lift is a totally it's it's 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:23.860 a catch -all right in a lot of ways and and it's 00:05:23.860 --> 00:05:26.879 you know catch -all that um you know within the 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.100 context of advertising really just means positive 00:05:30.100 --> 00:05:33.240 impact that in the case of of us is you know 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:35.920 the podcast is having on a brand's perception 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:39.759 awareness consideration so i'll give you a perfect 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:41.660 example we once worked with american express 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:45.259 on a podcast called build it build it braver 00:05:45.259 --> 00:05:48.480 and when we work with signal hill we developed 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.519 a survey that you know one of the questions we 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:54.360 really wanted to know is how is listening to 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:57.610 this podcast going to increase or perhaps decrease 00:05:57.610 --> 00:06:02.810 the consideration, in this case, a small business 00:06:02.810 --> 00:06:07.829 owner has in subscribing to an American Express 00:06:07.829 --> 00:06:11.050 business card. And so in that case, we were able 00:06:11.050 --> 00:06:14.410 to measure a certain percentage that the podcast. 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:17.839 had, you know, an impact on it. We're able to 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:21.439 quantify that. In some cases, we're looking at, 00:06:21.579 --> 00:06:24.759 you know, things like awareness. You know, did 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:26.220 you know about this brand before listening to 00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:29.000 the podcast? And sort of how does that impact 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:31.379 it after you've listened? So it really depends. 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:33.540 Again, marketer's answer. It depends. I think, 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:36.560 you know, way back when I was writing radio commercials, 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.639 we used to talk to direct clients and talk to 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:42.660 them about the purchasing ladder. And basically 00:06:42.660 --> 00:06:46.360 your job as a, you know, as an advertising copywriter 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:51.259 was to get that brand, you know, one rung higher 00:06:51.259 --> 00:06:53.720 in that ladder. I mean, ideally more than one, 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:55.560 but you know what I mean. So if you were thinking 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.379 about buying a bed, where would you go? Well, 00:06:58.420 --> 00:07:01.759 you go to, you know, this company and that company 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:03.519 and the other company and you wanted to move 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:09.500 that person higher in that purchase ladder, which 00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:12.879 I guess is one part of... of Brian Liff but it 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.720 sounds as if it's got quite a lot of other things 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.060 in there as well Well, I mean, and to flip that 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:21.899 on the other end of it, we think about a purchase 00:07:21.899 --> 00:07:25.920 funnel, which always starts with the sort of 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.160 top level awareness, understanding what the brand 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.660 is. So podcast plays a good role in that. But 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:34.819 then more importantly, there's the engagement 00:07:34.819 --> 00:07:40.300 side of the funnel. So how long can we keep their 00:07:40.300 --> 00:07:43.829 attention and sort of... um capture their interest 00:07:43.829 --> 00:07:45.910 and and keep it and we always talk about a podcast 00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:49.009 through jar as as you know a good podcast is 00:07:49.009 --> 00:07:51.790 sticky it keeps a listener as not only as a subscriber 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:55.850 but it actually gets them um you know more into 00:07:55.850 --> 00:07:59.709 the ecosystem of the brand itself um so great 00:07:59.709 --> 00:08:02.189 podcast is great for that mid funnel which would 00:08:02.189 --> 00:08:03.990 be considered consideration this is when they're 00:08:03.990 --> 00:08:05.829 starting to educate themselves about certain 00:08:05.829 --> 00:08:09.069 topic or certain product or understanding you 00:08:09.069 --> 00:08:11.509 know certain categories so podcasts can be used 00:08:11.509 --> 00:08:13.829 for that you often see thought leadership sort 00:08:13.829 --> 00:08:17.310 of in in that sort of um tier and then there's 00:08:17.310 --> 00:08:19.069 the cons and then and then there's the conversion 00:08:19.069 --> 00:08:21.649 itself it's the actual purchase and you know 00:08:21.649 --> 00:08:23.560 we could talk about this for days you know Some 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:25.800 podcasts are better than others when it comes 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:29.939 to conversion. We're of the mindset that podcasts 00:08:29.939 --> 00:08:32.860 as a whole, podcasts themselves, like a full 00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:35.840 branded show, are not what I would consider to 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:38.379 be a good investment if you're looking for quick 00:08:38.379 --> 00:08:41.960 conversion. Podcast advertising is, but an actual 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:44.519 podcast itself, you've got to build up an audience. 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.799 You have to layer in a lot of... advertising, 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:50.080 frankly, and talking about yourself and the brand. 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.919 And that's not what a listener wants to experience 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.259 when they listen to a brand show. They want great 00:08:56.259 --> 00:08:59.399 narrative that just happens to be brought to 00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:03.620 you by that brand. But some shows are better 00:09:03.620 --> 00:09:05.000 than others when it comes to those conversions. 00:09:05.299 --> 00:09:07.740 And looking wider at the whole world of branded 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:10.870 podcasts, do you think... Companies are taking 00:09:10.870 --> 00:09:14.570 branded podcasts seriously, or is it sometimes 00:09:14.570 --> 00:09:18.330 still seen as a bit of a CEO, you know, indulgence? 00:09:19.470 --> 00:09:24.070 Serial CEO. Yeah, no, it's it's it's I knew that's 00:09:24.070 --> 00:09:27.389 what you wanted to say, right? You know, I'd 00:09:27.389 --> 00:09:30.289 say it's sort of it's a it's a mix. I would say 00:09:30.289 --> 00:09:35.090 that it also very much depends on the brand and 00:09:35.090 --> 00:09:38.000 how seriously they take. the relationship they 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.200 have with their audience as a whole. I wouldn't 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:42.700 necessarily put it into the podcast sort of field. 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:47.100 So you see a lot of brands that are very focused 00:09:47.100 --> 00:09:52.379 on themselves, focused on talking about all the 00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:54.360 great things that they're doing. And that's not 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.480 what content marketing is about. On the flip 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:00.980 side, you see brands that are just doing an incredible 00:10:00.980 --> 00:10:05.100 job of providing a ton of different... you know, 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:07.139 content that happens to be coming from the brand. 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:08.820 And so they're the ones that take the podcast 00:10:08.820 --> 00:10:11.620 a lot more seriously because, you know, frankly, 00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:14.340 I think they just have a ton more respect for 00:10:14.340 --> 00:10:16.679 their, you know, for their audience, you know, 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:18.620 respecting their time, but also just understanding 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:21.840 them more and having a bit more of a deeper connection 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:25.519 with them. But we do still see, you know, we 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:28.860 do still see a lot of the brand leaders saying, 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:32.360 you know, my CEO wants a podcast. um just as 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:35.340 like from a purely you know from a purely like 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:39.100 functional production standpoint it you know 00:10:39.100 --> 00:10:42.860 some ceos can be great um you know some ceos 00:10:42.860 --> 00:10:45.460 are founders and they've built this company and 00:10:45.460 --> 00:10:49.139 nobody knows you know the ins and outs of a certain 00:10:49.139 --> 00:10:53.279 category better than them um but then sometimes 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:55.919 sometimes they're just frankly difficult to work 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:58.179 with because they're so busy And to actually 00:10:58.179 --> 00:11:02.139 produce a podcast with a CEO as a host is incredibly 00:11:02.139 --> 00:11:04.259 challenging just because you've got to nail them 00:11:04.259 --> 00:11:07.820 down as far as timeline goes. And in our experience, 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:10.940 what's happened or what tends to happen is the 00:11:10.940 --> 00:11:15.840 show loses its cadence and momentum because so 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:19.639 -and -so will fly off to Davos for the week and 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:22.480 screw the podcast schedule and screw the production 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.379 schedule. I got to go here and there. And what 00:11:26.379 --> 00:11:27.980 ends up happening is unless you've got a really 00:11:27.980 --> 00:11:32.440 good runway of episodes, things get really disrupted. 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:35.200 Yeah. You've mentioned American Express. Who 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:40.039 else has JAR worked with recently? Well, recently 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:43.639 we just did a podcast with the Wharton School 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:45.980 of Business, which was actually a collaboration 00:11:45.980 --> 00:11:51.139 with Accenture. And we've also done some stuff 00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:55.120 with Deloitte, and we continue to do a lot of 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.879 great work with Amazon. But we've also worked 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:03.940 with Cirque du Soleil, Lush, pretty much every... 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:07.940 vertical. We've done a show in. Very nice. My 00:12:07.940 --> 00:12:14.600 wife works in the circus here and we went to 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:18.639 watch the Cirque du Soleil in Vegas and I was 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.340 the person pulled out of the audience to go and 00:12:21.340 --> 00:12:25.399 perform. I don't think she's ever forgiven me. 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:34.100 I have a secret. I have a wish to do a show entirely 00:12:34.100 --> 00:12:36.539 based around the people that get pulled out of 00:12:36.539 --> 00:12:38.860 the audience. Oh yeah, that would be, gosh, that 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:42.100 would be a thing. Actually, just as a side note, 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:44.259 I remember once going to a Cirque du Soleil show 00:12:44.259 --> 00:12:49.360 in, I think it was Mexico, and about five minutes 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:51.299 before the show was about to start and everybody 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:53.820 was in their seats, all of a sudden the lights 00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:56.179 dimmed, not to the point where you knew that 00:12:56.179 --> 00:12:57.700 the show was starting, but something was about 00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:00.250 to happen. And all of a sudden this woman came 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:03.610 out of the ceiling. She was hooked into like 00:13:03.610 --> 00:13:07.529 a big hula hoop, beautiful like gold hula hoop. 00:13:07.690 --> 00:13:10.809 And she started to sort of spin around. And eventually 00:13:10.809 --> 00:13:13.889 she landed right in front of this couple and 00:13:13.889 --> 00:13:16.870 took out a box and handed it to the man there. 00:13:17.009 --> 00:13:20.149 And he proposed to his girlfriend. And it was 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:23.409 like the most amazing proposal. It was awesome. 00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:29.740 You can't beat that, right? Wow. Gosh, yes. Let's 00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:32.480 make sure that my wife won't hear this particular 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:35.779 podcast because, my goodness. I was with my wife 00:13:35.779 --> 00:13:39.419 at the time and I got an elbow in the ribs. Yeah, 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:43.080 exactly right. Roger, thank you so much for your 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.740 support of the Pod News newsletter, which I know 00:13:45.740 --> 00:13:48.360 that you've been doing for many years. Much appreciated. 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:51.100 And thank you for joining us. Thanks so much, 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.460 James. Appreciate it. Thanks for everything you 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:52.580 do.