So I'm Roger Nairn. I'm the co -founder and CEO
of JAR Podcast Solutions, which is formally known
as JAR Audio. Yeah, so I saw something on LinkedIn
last week saying that JAR Audio is going away
and it's gone away now. Tell us about that. Yeah,
so I mean, you know, we're an eight -year -old
company. We originally were calling ourselves
JAR Audio. Part of it is obviously the fact that
podcast is evolving, audio and video. We do all
of that. We do everything when it comes to the
clients that we work with. So there's that, which
is the simple answer. The larger, more sort of
structural and strategic answer for us as an
agency is because, again, because the industry
is evolving so much, we're getting asked a lot
more. difficult questions from the clients we
work with specifically cmos and brand leaders
and they all want to know sort of what is this
podcast going to do for my brand and you know
the great thing is that we've always had an answer
for that we've always been able to you know create
great podcasts that happen to solve different
business challenges meet their business goals
and so the the podcast solution the solution
side to it all is is something that we've always
been doing which is solving solving business
challenges with podcasts. So you have a new system
as part of this. It's the launch of the JAR system,
which luckily stands for Job, Audience and Result.
Exactly. Tell me about what that system is and
how it works with you. Absolutely. So everything
that we look at, we look at through the lens
of this JAR system. As you said, Job, Audience
and Result. So everything starts with a job.
When we sit down with a... know a prospective
client we always ask them you know what is the
job that this podcast needs to be doing for you
and specifically we work with brands enterprise
brands mid -sized brands and you know going back
to the you know my original point of the industry
changing you know it used to be that Podcasts
were sort of a nice to have, something that brands
were testing out and playing with. Now they're
seeing the value in a podcast playing a key role
in their marketing ecosystem. But that doesn't
mean that it can just sit there and be a fun
little toy to play with. It actually has to have
an ROI behind it. So what does it need to do?
Let's say you're a brand that needs to engage
with a specific audience, or let's say you want
to increase your thought leadership, or you need
to... educate an audience on something or maybe
you just need to engage with them via you know
great entertainment that's the job you know that's
the job that this podcast needs to do so then
there's the audience now obviously we want to
know who is it that this podcast is meant for
but more specifically you know how are they engaging
with contact content these days what other podcasts
do they like you know what are the other things
that we need to know about them in order to truly
create something that's you know of high value
to them And then there's the result. So at the
end of the day, what can we point to to say this
podcast was successful? How can we measure that?
We work with a bunch of incredible partners that
help us measure, but also looking at all the
different analytics and everything that we have
access to these days as an industry. We're building
custom stacks, depending on the clients we're
working with, that allows us to point to that
success. But then there's the success of the
podcast. But also what we want to be able to
consistently deliver on is how is this podcast
impacting the brand specifically? And that's
something we're always looking at. And so how
are you measuring some of those results? I mean,
what are you going back to a client with and
saying this was a successful thing because X?
you know typical typical marketer answer but
it it depends um you know and everything is going
to be everything is going to be unique and different
for a client but um you know a lot of times we're
measuring brand lift so we're working with uh
you know signal hills of the world who are helping
us with brand lift studies um we're obviously
looking at you know uh the uh qualitative and
quantitative side of podcasting so we're looking
at obviously the quantitative side which is you
know downloads and and the actual engagement
rate we're looking at you know listen to rate
you know the consumption side of it all but then
we're also on the qualitative side looking at
you know reviews and comments and we're running
surveys and we're doing everything that we need
to be doing in order to you know get as much
you know um input from that audience and feedback
from that audience and filtering it back into
the project but also we are using a ton of different
stacks uh to measure conversions we're you know
doing different things to connect the actual
podcast to the brand itself. They're measuring
different impacts the brand is having on trust
and authority via different surveys that we're
doing. And we're also able to measure things
like loyalty and things like more likelihood
to purchase from or more likelihood to engage
with. via survey as well i i'm sure that uh many
of the people who are enjoying this podcast um
i'm sure that the one person who's enjoying this
podcast is curious about brand lift um because
i hear that phrase an awful lot to be honest
i don't know what it means what does what does
yeah i mean brand lift is a totally it's it's
a catch -all right in a lot of ways and and it's
you know catch -all that um you know within the
context of advertising really just means positive
impact that in the case of of us is you know
the podcast is having on a brand's perception
awareness consideration so i'll give you a perfect
example we once worked with american express
on a podcast called build it build it braver
and when we work with signal hill we developed
a survey that you know one of the questions we
really wanted to know is how is listening to
this podcast going to increase or perhaps decrease
the consideration, in this case, a small business
owner has in subscribing to an American Express
business card. And so in that case, we were able
to measure a certain percentage that the podcast.
had, you know, an impact on it. We're able to
quantify that. In some cases, we're looking at,
you know, things like awareness. You know, did
you know about this brand before listening to
the podcast? And sort of how does that impact
it after you've listened? So it really depends.
Again, marketer's answer. It depends. I think,
you know, way back when I was writing radio commercials,
we used to talk to direct clients and talk to
them about the purchasing ladder. And basically
your job as a, you know, as an advertising copywriter
was to get that brand, you know, one rung higher
in that ladder. I mean, ideally more than one,
but you know what I mean. So if you were thinking
about buying a bed, where would you go? Well,
you go to, you know, this company and that company
and the other company and you wanted to move
that person higher in that purchase ladder, which
I guess is one part of... of Brian Liff but it
sounds as if it's got quite a lot of other things
in there as well Well, I mean, and to flip that
on the other end of it, we think about a purchase
funnel, which always starts with the sort of
top level awareness, understanding what the brand
is. So podcast plays a good role in that. But
then more importantly, there's the engagement
side of the funnel. So how long can we keep their
attention and sort of... um capture their interest
and and keep it and we always talk about a podcast
through jar as as you know a good podcast is
sticky it keeps a listener as not only as a subscriber
but it actually gets them um you know more into
the ecosystem of the brand itself um so great
podcast is great for that mid funnel which would
be considered consideration this is when they're
starting to educate themselves about certain
topic or certain product or understanding you
know certain categories so podcasts can be used
for that you often see thought leadership sort
of in in that sort of um tier and then there's
the cons and then and then there's the conversion
itself it's the actual purchase and you know
we could talk about this for days you know Some
podcasts are better than others when it comes
to conversion. We're of the mindset that podcasts
as a whole, podcasts themselves, like a full
branded show, are not what I would consider to
be a good investment if you're looking for quick
conversion. Podcast advertising is, but an actual
podcast itself, you've got to build up an audience.
You have to layer in a lot of... advertising,
frankly, and talking about yourself and the brand.
And that's not what a listener wants to experience
when they listen to a brand show. They want great
narrative that just happens to be brought to
you by that brand. But some shows are better
than others when it comes to those conversions.
And looking wider at the whole world of branded
podcasts, do you think... Companies are taking
branded podcasts seriously, or is it sometimes
still seen as a bit of a CEO, you know, indulgence?
Serial CEO. Yeah, no, it's it's it's I knew that's
what you wanted to say, right? You know, I'd
say it's sort of it's a it's a mix. I would say
that it also very much depends on the brand and
how seriously they take. the relationship they
have with their audience as a whole. I wouldn't
necessarily put it into the podcast sort of field.
So you see a lot of brands that are very focused
on themselves, focused on talking about all the
great things that they're doing. And that's not
what content marketing is about. On the flip
side, you see brands that are just doing an incredible
job of providing a ton of different... you know,
content that happens to be coming from the brand.
And so they're the ones that take the podcast
a lot more seriously because, you know, frankly,
I think they just have a ton more respect for
their, you know, for their audience, you know,
respecting their time, but also just understanding
them more and having a bit more of a deeper connection
with them. But we do still see, you know, we
do still see a lot of the brand leaders saying,
you know, my CEO wants a podcast. um just as
like from a purely you know from a purely like
functional production standpoint it you know
some ceos can be great um you know some ceos
are founders and they've built this company and
nobody knows you know the ins and outs of a certain
category better than them um but then sometimes
sometimes they're just frankly difficult to work
with because they're so busy And to actually
produce a podcast with a CEO as a host is incredibly
challenging just because you've got to nail them
down as far as timeline goes. And in our experience,
what's happened or what tends to happen is the
show loses its cadence and momentum because so
-and -so will fly off to Davos for the week and
screw the podcast schedule and screw the production
schedule. I got to go here and there. And what
ends up happening is unless you've got a really
good runway of episodes, things get really disrupted.
Yeah. You've mentioned American Express. Who
else has JAR worked with recently? Well, recently
we just did a podcast with the Wharton School
of Business, which was actually a collaboration
with Accenture. And we've also done some stuff
with Deloitte, and we continue to do a lot of
great work with Amazon. But we've also worked
with Cirque du Soleil, Lush, pretty much every...
vertical. We've done a show in. Very nice. My
wife works in the circus here and we went to
watch the Cirque du Soleil in Vegas and I was
the person pulled out of the audience to go and
perform. I don't think she's ever forgiven me.
I have a secret. I have a wish to do a show entirely
based around the people that get pulled out of
the audience. Oh yeah, that would be, gosh, that
would be a thing. Actually, just as a side note,
I remember once going to a Cirque du Soleil show
in, I think it was Mexico, and about five minutes
before the show was about to start and everybody
was in their seats, all of a sudden the lights
dimmed, not to the point where you knew that
the show was starting, but something was about
to happen. And all of a sudden this woman came
out of the ceiling. She was hooked into like
a big hula hoop, beautiful like gold hula hoop.
And she started to sort of spin around. And eventually
she landed right in front of this couple and
took out a box and handed it to the man there.
And he proposed to his girlfriend. And it was
like the most amazing proposal. It was awesome.
You can't beat that, right? Wow. Gosh, yes. Let's
make sure that my wife won't hear this particular
podcast because, my goodness. I was with my wife
at the time and I got an elbow in the ribs. Yeah,
exactly right. Roger, thank you so much for your
support of the Pod News newsletter, which I know
that you've been doing for many years. Much appreciated.
And thank you for joining us. Thanks so much,
James. Appreciate it. Thanks for everything you
do.