WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.459 I'm Sean King, and I'm the chief revenue officer 00:00:02.459 --> 00:00:04.620 and general manager for the commercial division 00:00:04.620 --> 00:00:07.960 at Veritone. Veritone, we're an AI software company 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:12.199 where we help organizations in both the public 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:16.219 and private sector help make sense out of their 00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:19.120 unstructured data, specifically meaning audio 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:22.500 and video. So across our organization, we ingest 00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:26.870 about 150 ,000 hours of content a day. and append 00:00:26.870 --> 00:00:29.850 kind of frame -by -frame analysis of what's taking 00:00:29.850 --> 00:00:34.350 place in the audio or in the video, who's speaking, 00:00:34.590 --> 00:00:36.549 what are they talking about, what objects, what 00:00:36.549 --> 00:00:39.409 logos may be in the background. And we turn that 00:00:39.409 --> 00:00:43.189 into kind of actionable data that they can use 00:00:43.189 --> 00:00:47.409 for a litany of different opportunities across 00:00:47.409 --> 00:00:49.789 their organization. We obviously have heard the 00:00:49.789 --> 00:00:53.369 news about Wondery this week. What do you think? 00:00:53.929 --> 00:00:57.350 What do you think went on there? Why have Amazon 00:00:57.350 --> 00:01:00.049 made the big changes that they have? At the end 00:01:00.049 --> 00:01:02.289 of the day, all these organizations make strategic 00:01:02.289 --> 00:01:04.569 decisions about what their priorities are in 00:01:04.569 --> 00:01:06.969 the organization. And then especially in an organization 00:01:06.969 --> 00:01:10.329 as big as Amazon, what are those downstream implications, 00:01:10.849 --> 00:01:13.730 broadly speaking, across that organization? But 00:01:13.730 --> 00:01:19.109 in my opinion, that restructuring is what I'll 00:01:19.109 --> 00:01:20.969 consider a little bit more of a recalibration. 00:01:22.540 --> 00:01:24.920 their shift potentially for more of that traditional 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:28.180 studio models into more potentially integrated 00:01:28.180 --> 00:01:31.640 audio ecosystems. I mean, obviously with having 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:34.159 Wondery and having Audible and having these different 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.260 groups, there's a natural opportunity to kind 00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:40.299 of consolidate those different ecosystems. And 00:01:40.299 --> 00:01:41.959 also at the same time, kind of set themselves 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.040 up. I mean, more and more podcasts are becoming 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:48.359 video orientated and more platform agnostic even 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:50.280 in those. Like even when I go through my social 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:54.480 feeds these days, just how many videos I'm watching 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.739 that is basically just a recording of a podcast 00:01:56.739 --> 00:01:59.459 that I would likely listen to as well. And you're 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:01.959 just starting to see different ways in which 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.040 the medium is being consumed. And at the same 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:08.919 time, allowing their brands to... you know, potentially 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:11.340 be able to navigate some more of their kind of 00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:13.379 what I'll consider platform control distribution 00:02:13.379 --> 00:02:16.789 and monetization. And obviously, in an organization 00:02:16.789 --> 00:02:19.590 that has so many assets in it from Amazon, if 00:02:19.590 --> 00:02:21.210 you just think about it from their audio divisions, 00:02:21.469 --> 00:02:24.090 their film divisions, their, you know, their 00:02:24.090 --> 00:02:28.069 streaming platforms across that, you know, having 00:02:28.069 --> 00:02:30.169 these abilities to be able to consolidate, I 00:02:30.169 --> 00:02:31.770 mean, it's typically what you would expect to 00:02:31.770 --> 00:02:34.129 see in these organizations. Yeah, yeah. And I 00:02:34.129 --> 00:02:36.949 mean, it's interesting, we were looking at how 00:02:36.949 --> 00:02:40.189 Wondery has done. Wondery has done more podcast 00:02:40.189 --> 00:02:44.629 to TV conversions than any other company has. 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:46.620 has done. They've done particularly well in terms 00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:49.319 of that. They've obviously released a massive 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:53.020 amount of content. But of course, Amazon being 00:02:53.020 --> 00:02:56.080 Amazon, we can't quite see whether or not that 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:58.699 was a sustainable business model. What's your 00:02:58.699 --> 00:03:03.240 gut feel in terms of that? Well, I mean, it's 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:06.280 a game of numbers. And those. And look, at the 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:08.560 end of the day, content is still king. You know, 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:11.139 I think a lot of the success that Wondery had 00:03:11.139 --> 00:03:14.060 in that even dates back to Hernan and the founders 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:16.680 and having background in Fox and everything else 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:19.120 that's there. So being able to, you know, make 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.360 the right bets on what type of content and what 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.659 content and what things may be able to transcend 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:28.139 platforms and transcend, you know, from an audio 00:03:28.139 --> 00:03:31.159 only, you know, medium into, you know, more storytelling 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.780 from those. But again, to that point. What a 00:03:34.780 --> 00:03:37.039 wonderful opportunity in these areas and why 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:39.120 I've always loved the podcasting space from those 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.849 is. The barrier to entry in podcasting and being 00:03:42.849 --> 00:03:44.889 able to be able to create this and be able to 00:03:44.889 --> 00:03:46.969 do this, to be able to incubate, to really develop 00:03:46.969 --> 00:03:49.370 these things and build that audience. I mean, 00:03:49.370 --> 00:03:51.449 and build the storytelling elements of it there 00:03:51.449 --> 00:03:53.770 to be able to kind of elevate that through the 00:03:53.770 --> 00:03:55.969 different, you know, I'll consider entertainment 00:03:55.969 --> 00:04:00.229 supply chains is is is. And I think just looking 00:04:00.229 --> 00:04:03.409 at Amazon specifically and knowing that from 00:04:03.409 --> 00:04:05.949 an audio to potentially a streaming platform 00:04:05.949 --> 00:04:09.580 to Twitch, to video, to, you know, movies. and 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:11.780 everything else that they do. I mean, they have 00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:14.039 an entire stack, so to speak. Is the revenue 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.899 for the podcast industry still very much focused 00:04:16.899 --> 00:04:20.439 around host -read ads? I mean, clearly, when 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:22.579 you look at some of the content that Wondery 00:04:22.579 --> 00:04:25.680 was producing, host -read ads are quite difficult 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.850 in that sort of narrative. you know, experience 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:32.230 anyway. But are we still essentially a host -read 00:04:32.230 --> 00:04:35.670 ad industry or are we moving to something a bit 00:04:35.670 --> 00:04:38.569 more complex? Well, I hope we're going to something 00:04:38.569 --> 00:04:41.670 that's a healthy medium before. You know, I always 00:04:41.670 --> 00:04:43.689 loved about the, what I always still love about 00:04:43.689 --> 00:04:46.569 the podcasting space is, you know, it reminds 00:04:46.569 --> 00:04:49.389 me of, you know, driving to work in the 90s. 00:04:49.829 --> 00:04:53.029 And I had my favorite entertainment that I would 00:04:53.029 --> 00:04:54.949 listen to. And it was structured in the timeline 00:04:54.949 --> 00:04:57.610 that I would listen to it. And I would go to 00:04:57.610 --> 00:05:00.470 those. And it's the trusted voices. It's on demand. 00:05:00.850 --> 00:05:05.009 But the accessibility of it is just great. And 00:05:05.009 --> 00:05:08.769 I think the host read ads is a special key component. 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:12.480 to podcasting but for podcasting to continue 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.339 to scale to continue to evolve there has to be 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:18.680 a healthy balance on being able to create and 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:20.660 develop what i'll consider the relationship and 00:05:20.660 --> 00:05:23.519 the engagement and how do you support that with 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:26.379 other ads i mean we see this all the time in 00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:28.600 traditionals you know you have you know let's 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:31.720 pick pick on tv for a second Okay, well, yeah, 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.459 you want to have your Super Bowl ad. You want 00:05:33.459 --> 00:05:36.680 to have that tentpole opportunity. But as a standalone 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:38.879 basis, it's really hard to make that tentpole 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.560 event work if you don't have a supporting cast. 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.259 of advertisements and other medias and other 00:05:46.259 --> 00:05:48.360 things taking place to make you leverage that 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.300 the most. And so it's similar here, in my opinion, 00:05:51.339 --> 00:05:53.839 on the podcasting spaces. You have to leverage 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:56.040 that relationship that you have the opportunity 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:58.480 to with the host, but you also have to support 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.759 it with everything there to make sure that you're 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:05.180 staying consistent. What's coming? Who's the 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:08.899 stranger at the gate that your dog is barking 00:06:08.899 --> 00:06:12.480 at? What should we be worried about? uh in the 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.740 future in terms of the podcast industry how are 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:18.160 things changing i mean i think things are changing 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:20.600 so much as we're seeing such acceleration and 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:22.680 all these other different platforms and i do 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:25.579 apologize for my i'm i'm afraid to go down and 00:06:25.579 --> 00:06:28.240 don't worry about the dog 200 dog downstairs 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:33.160 is 200 pound dog but but i think what is changing 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:37.100 is being able to find and where and navigate 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:39.180 the connections across these multi -platforms 00:06:39.180 --> 00:06:42.000 you know what is your core podcasting group that's 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:44.399 listening to it are you live streaming that and 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.639 that audience on youtube how does that transcend 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:48.819 over to the different social networks either 00:06:48.819 --> 00:06:51.879 on instagram or facebook or tiktok or any of 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:54.819 these others you know your audience just pool 00:06:54.819 --> 00:06:59.000 just got much more fragmented and and and how 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.420 do you make sure you're you know staying connected 00:07:03.129 --> 00:07:06.889 And as a brand, how you're making sure that you're 00:07:06.889 --> 00:07:11.089 trying your best to uniquely be able to serve 00:07:11.089 --> 00:07:13.550 the target customer that you're trying to see 00:07:13.550 --> 00:07:17.389 without inundating them all over the place. It's 00:07:17.389 --> 00:07:20.310 a challenging balance that's a requirement of, 00:07:20.329 --> 00:07:23.269 you know, smart people and good technology and 00:07:23.269 --> 00:07:26.060 better data. that will allow you to be able to 00:07:26.060 --> 00:07:27.939 help make the right decisions. I mean, I guess 00:07:27.939 --> 00:07:32.100 the world of podcasting has seen what TV has 00:07:32.100 --> 00:07:35.720 seen in the last decade, what radio has seen 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:38.620 in the last decade, in that instead of being 00:07:38.620 --> 00:07:42.079 consumed on one platform, whether that's live 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:46.699 TV or whether that's AM, FM. all of a sudden 00:07:46.699 --> 00:07:49.040 things are being consumed on lots of different 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:51.860 platforms. How complicated does that make it 00:07:51.860 --> 00:07:54.680 in terms of advertising and reaching audiences? 00:07:55.019 --> 00:07:56.680 It's challenging in a case because you're talking 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:00.040 about diverse medias that have very diverse measurements. 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:02.779 And because they have very diverse measurements 00:08:02.779 --> 00:08:04.860 means they have very different forms of currency. 00:08:06.769 --> 00:08:09.209 And trying to figure out that, you know, trying 00:08:09.209 --> 00:08:11.730 to make $1 kind of equal the same across those. 00:08:11.810 --> 00:08:13.709 It's very different when you're looking at a 00:08:13.709 --> 00:08:16.810 television audience measured on, you know, how 00:08:16.810 --> 00:08:19.649 many thousands Nielsen or Comscore may estimate 00:08:19.649 --> 00:08:23.889 may have watched or listened to this across AM, 00:08:24.009 --> 00:08:26.730 FM or television. How does that differ when you're 00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:29.050 listening to it from your, you know, Apple streaming 00:08:29.050 --> 00:08:31.610 device? Or how does that differ when you're downloading 00:08:31.610 --> 00:08:34.809 through iTunes? you know you all very different 00:08:34.809 --> 00:08:37.049 unique and all the currencies are a little different 00:08:37.049 --> 00:08:40.450 on that uh so it's really the right mix of you 00:08:40.450 --> 00:08:43.049 know your media mix modeling and and how you're 00:08:43.049 --> 00:08:45.230 doing that so i always you know would advise 00:08:45.230 --> 00:08:49.830 everyone to think about and agree on you know 00:08:49.830 --> 00:08:53.460 there's not the silver bullet quite yet But you 00:08:53.460 --> 00:08:55.220 at least have to stand on what you're going to 00:08:55.220 --> 00:08:57.539 put your value, your importance against and define 00:08:57.539 --> 00:08:59.159 on what your measurement is and how you're going 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.379 to measure success. And then you're going to 00:09:01.379 --> 00:09:03.220 have to look at each one of these things somewhat 00:09:03.220 --> 00:09:06.019 uniquely different, uniquely to make sure that, 00:09:06.059 --> 00:09:07.360 you know, you're accounting for it appropriately. 00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:12.179 And in a future where podcasting is certainly 00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:15.179 talking to some people, podcasting is essentially 00:09:15.179 --> 00:09:20.490 shifting to YouTube. Is that a good future for 00:09:20.490 --> 00:09:23.809 where the industry is going in your view or where 00:09:23.809 --> 00:09:27.450 do we go from that? I think it's a good complementary 00:09:27.450 --> 00:09:32.570 piece to those. At the end of the day, it was 00:09:32.570 --> 00:09:35.250 true 100 years ago and it'll be true in 100 years. 00:09:35.370 --> 00:09:40.129 Content is king. And what's wonderful about both 00:09:40.129 --> 00:09:43.750 YouTube and podcasting is, again, as I was mentioning 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:47.769 earlier, that low barrier to entry. on i mean 00:09:47.769 --> 00:09:50.269 on how you can create and how you'll be able 00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:53.070 to do that and there are people like myself like 00:09:53.070 --> 00:09:56.769 i don't like to sit down and watch a podcast 00:09:56.769 --> 00:10:00.210 on youtube like and it's it's for those i like 00:10:00.210 --> 00:10:03.990 to engage in a podcast like just purely just 00:10:03.990 --> 00:10:07.980 me and my ears It's my opportunity. It's my focus. 00:10:08.139 --> 00:10:09.940 That's how I enjoy it. That's how I get the most 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:12.500 out of it. You know, when I'm going to sit down 00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:14.740 and watch something, I'm not going to want to 00:10:14.740 --> 00:10:17.480 watch that. But there are people that are probably 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:21.100 the antithesis of me and like to have that sight, 00:10:21.139 --> 00:10:24.000 sound, and motion with everything. I look at 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.000 it as if I watch my daughter. I mean, and she 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:28.919 does everything on YouTube. Very different than 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.620 me. But it's just all you're doing is you're 00:10:31.620 --> 00:10:34.879 making sure that your content is accessible and 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.559 all the different fragmented vehicles that are 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:39.940 there to consume it. And, you know, and you're 00:10:39.940 --> 00:10:42.620 just meeting your your audience where they're 00:10:42.620 --> 00:10:45.480 at. Sean, it's been great to chat. Thank you 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:47.279 so much for your time. My pleasure. Thanks for 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:47.720 having me, James.