1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,600
Hey guys, welcome back to more of Mel, the coolest fucking pod in the game, where I pick

2
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,200
people's brains about things that keep me up at night.

3
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,560
I'm your host Mel, and on today's episode Anything and Everything, I'm joined by the

4
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:18,880
intelligent, beautiful, amazing Jamie Bishop, who is my very first non-Emerson guest.

5
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:24,080
Guys I've genuinely never been more excited to record an episode in my life because I've

6
00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:25,400
known Jamie for what?

7
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,600
Two weeks, two and a half weeks, but I've learned so much from you already and I can't

8
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:31,960
wait to pick your brain.

9
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,080
I'm just enthralled by you.

10
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,960
You really have so much wisdom to give, and one day I'm going to clone myself.

11
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:44,200
I mean, I'm going to clone Joe, become Joe, so that you can be my sister.

12
00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,200
Wait for context.

13
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,160
My roommate Joe, who was on an episode, Jamie is her sister, so that's kind of the little

14
00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:51,160
context.

15
00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,720
But anyways, enough praise for you.

16
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,160
I would love for you to introduce yourself to the Emerson people and my other listeners.

17
00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,920
Hi guys, I'm Jamie.

18
00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:01,560
I'm Joe's sister.

19
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:06,440
I am 21 years old, currently living in New York, and I'm here on a Boston trip to visit

20
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,400
you guys, and it's already been so much fun.

21
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,400
We had to sleep over last night.

22
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,400
We sure did, and I heard them giggling all night.

23
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,160
It was the funniest thing ever.

24
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:23,880
So as per the title, we are literally going to dive into anything and everything, guys.

25
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,440
So I'm excited.

26
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:28,960
I'm so jittery right now.

27
00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:30,840
I don't even know where to start.

28
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,120
Dude, don't even.

29
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,240
Listen to the episode that you guys did together with Paige, and I texted Joe, can I please

30
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:38,240
get on the podcast?

31
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,240
This would be so fun.

32
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,640
Oh my God, dude, I was so excited when Joe told me.

33
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,640
I was walking from work, and I was miserable, and Joe came to pick me up that day.

34
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,080
Because I had a horrible day prior, and Joe came to pick me up.

35
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,080
She was like, wait, I have an idea.

36
00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,080
Jamie texted me, blah, blah, and I was like, ugh, no.

37
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,080
You have an idea?

38
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:58,080
It's totally taken credit.

39
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:04,640
No, but I was so excited, and later we had a FaceTime call and talked about everything

40
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:10,520
we wanted to dive into, and now, like, here we are, you're in Boston, and I'm just so

41
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,440
excited that this is coming to life.

42
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,880
Me too, and people don't know, but I am an amateur podcaster.

43
00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:16,880
She is.

44
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,840
My dream was to have my own podcast, and I tried, like, I think my sophomore year in

45
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:22,840
college too.

46
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:23,840
Really?

47
00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,360
And I recorded an episode, it was like 45 minutes long of just me talking.

48
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:28,360
And I love that.

49
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,880
And I didn't have, like, the balls to put it out anyway, which is why I respect you

50
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:32,880
so much for doing this.

51
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:33,880
Oh my God, stop.

52
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,000
I'm so excited to be on it.

53
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,640
Thank you so much, but no, you have to, guys.

54
00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:41,680
Everyone comment when I post the promo for this Jamie podcast.

55
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,360
She has so much to say and so much to tell people.

56
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,680
Like, honestly, I would for sure fucking tune in.

57
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,360
So please do that.

58
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,800
I'm waiting on it.

59
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,120
So I just want to dive right in, honestly.

60
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,360
Go for it.

61
00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:04,600
So my first question is, what shapes your view of relationships and love and partnership?

62
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,480
It doesn't have to be, like, specifically a boyfriend, but, like, even friendships,

63
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,360
like relationships with, like, your parents, your siblings.

64
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,800
It's like, what, just kind of the foundation, like, what does that entail for you, like,

65
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,000
building a relationship with someone?

66
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,520
That's a really deep question to start us off.

67
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:23,520
I don't know.

68
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,680
I feel like that's something that everyone should ask themselves, like, how they model

69
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,080
their vision of, like, an ideal relationship.

70
00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,240
And I think it's a combination of a lot of things for everyone.

71
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,920
I think for me, it would definitely be my parents growing up, like, seeing how they

72
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,640
navigated their lives and, like, went through ups and downs, but it's also, like, seeing

73
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,440
Joe and her first boyfriend was definitely, like, a model for me to see, like, you know,

74
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,480
kind of form my own expectations of how I should be treated.

75
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,480
Yeah.

76
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,320
Even from, like, movies and TV shows.

77
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,120
Like, Joe and I were talking about Modern Family last night.

78
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,120
I heard you.

79
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:04,520
But it's such a good TV show to watch, to think about, like, all different types of relationship

80
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:12,280
dynamics, like, not even just a partner, but also your mom, your dad, your sibling, a friend.

81
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,160
And I think that served, like, a really big place in my life, is honestly Modern Family,

82
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:22,680
of how you can, like, navigate conflict and keep humor in there.

83
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,560
But I think it's a combination of things, and, like, definitely for my friends, too.

84
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,520
I feel like I didn't have a relationship, like, a proper relationship until I was older.

85
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:37,280
So seeing how my friends dealt with that, I kind of had this, like, observer standpoint

86
00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:41,280
for a long time where I got to, like, be the outsider looking at it, and that definitely

87
00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:42,280
helped me.

88
00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:44,080
I agree with all of those things.

89
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:49,200
I feel like Modern Family, I'm also, like, maybe not as obsessed as you guys, but I really

90
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,200
do love that trend.

91
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,720
I've watched it through, like, at least six or seven times.

92
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:53,720
I think it's a really good show.

93
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:54,720
Oh, my God, that's a lot.

94
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,200
No, I had a phase, for sure, in high school.

95
00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:59,200
It's the best.

96
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,200
It's so good.

97
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:05,200
I think when you see all of the different relationships, and, like, you don't do it intentionally,

98
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,440
maybe, but you kind of try to emulate those things.

99
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,760
I feel like, especially in the media, also, like, our generation, like, Gen Z, you're

100
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:13,760
so a part of Gen Z, yeah.

101
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,160
You're only two years older.

102
00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,160
Yeah.

103
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,640
Yeah, so I feel like we have so much access, and we're exposed to so many things, and,

104
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,880
like, we can't help but let it, like, be ingrained in our psyche, and so, like, we tend

105
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,840
to emulate the things we see online, and, like, which kind of sucks in a sense, because,

106
00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:34,360
like, some of those things are not realistic, and obviously Modern Family is a show, and,

107
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,440
like, that family probably does exist out there, but, like, you know, it's definitely

108
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,880
not a realistic thing in some, like, scenes or some episodes, but I feel like it's a nice,

109
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,520
like, base foundation to have, you know?

110
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,040
Yeah, I mean, that's so true.

111
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:54,200
We forget how impressionable we are, especially as younger kids, which is why it's kind of

112
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:59,840
scary that young kids are going so into, you know, social media right now, like, for the

113
00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:05,800
first time ever in human history, and we definitely do emulate those things that we see online,

114
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,680
and there are a lot of unrealistic standards, and, you know, you see, like, those super

115
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,120
model boyfriend and girlfriend, and they do all these things that are just to get money,

116
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:21,040
and there's a lot of pressure these days to, like, to form your own relationship based

117
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,320
on how it will be perceived externally as well, and that's something that I've always

118
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:26,840
been very against.

119
00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:31,440
Yeah, I agree with that 100% kind of piggybacking off of that.

120
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,600
I feel like there's, I don't know who told me this, but then I started putting it into

121
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,720
perspective, and I was like, wait, you're so right, like, the couples who post the most

122
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,440
on Instagram, like, constantly posting, I'm sorry, the most unhappy couples.

123
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:46,440
Yeah.

124
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,400
It's like they feel the need to prove to, like, the public or, like, outside viewers

125
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,320
that they are happy, and like, oh, look at us, he got me flowers, he got me this, he

126
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,200
got me that, we're doing this, we're doing that, and it's like, okay, that's nice, but

127
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,320
sometimes it's nice to keep things, like, within your relationship and to yourself,

128
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,000
which makes it, like, that much more special.

129
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,000
I agree.

130
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,240
And I feel like sometimes it's not their fault because social media does tend to put that

131
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,600
pressure on you where you feel the need to, like, quote unquote, show off, like, what

132
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,880
you have going on for you in your life, and I feel like that's the detriment of a lot

133
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,200
of relationships too, because you have this idea of what your relationship is, like, on

134
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:28,000
social media, and then, like, it kind of translates into real life, and then, like, one day you

135
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,960
have a come to Jesus and you're like, oh, that's not my real relationship, you know?

136
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,000
Yeah, that's a really good point.

137
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,560
And I feel like other people get information that way too, so another aspect is people

138
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,240
feel pressured to, like, keep everyone else posted on their lives.

139
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:47,160
But yeah, I don't even know if it means that they're, like, unhappy in their relationship,

140
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,680
it's just you have to, like, question why you feel the need to do that.

141
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,280
And there are certain instances where, like, someone reposts a picture of their girlfriend,

142
00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,000
and that's super cute, you know?

143
00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,240
But there are others where I feel like it warrants a question.

144
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,840
Yeah, I agree with that 100%.

145
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:10,680
For me, I don't really know what shapes my view of, like, relationships or love or whatever,

146
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,800
because, like, I'm a child of divorce and, like, not saying that my parents didn't teach

147
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,400
me, like, how to love people or whatever, and, like, also my grandparents are divorced

148
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,280
and, like, my other set of grandparents, they have, like, a really weird marriage, so it's,

149
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:30,120
like, I don't, I had to, like, kind of navigate that on my own because I don't really, like,

150
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:35,760
have a good idea of what, like, a loving relationship between man and woman is supposed to be, like,

151
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:36,760
you know?

152
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:37,760
Or, like, long-term love.

153
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:38,760
Exactly.

154
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:44,120
But I feel like within friendships and, like, other types of relationships, I feel like

155
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,480
my mom or, like, even, like, other people in my family gave me, like, a really good basis

156
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,080
for that because the way my mom loves her friends or, like, loves me and my brother or, like,

157
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:58,960
loves her sister, like, that did really, like, give me, like, a good, solid foundation as

158
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,960
to how I treat my friends now or, like, people I have relationships with now, which I think

159
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,480
is a really nice thing.

160
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,920
And I hate to say it, but we, at one point, we do become our parents.

161
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,600
Like, we are our parents' children at the end of the day, like, because we live with

162
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:18,040
these people the longest, like, our siblings too, like, we do get a lot.

163
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,840
I've seen that with you guys for the past, like, day and a half, like, I swear to God,

164
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:28,320
they're twins, like, we do everything at once, like, it's the craziest thing.

165
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,720
So I feel like siblings are definitely a big part of that, like, I want to hear your thoughts

166
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:34,720
about, like, siblings.

167
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:35,720
I know you have thoughts.

168
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:36,720
I know you have thoughts.

169
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,720
I'm staring directly into Jo's eyes right now.

170
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:39,720
Oh, Jo's here also.

171
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:40,720
She's our little live audience.

172
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:41,720
She can be the commentator.

173
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:42,720
Yeah, if she wants to chime in.

174
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:43,720
If you need me.

175
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:44,720
Please do.

176
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:52,560
Well, I want to start with, like, your friend point first, because I think that's super

177
00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:54,120
important too.

178
00:09:54,120 --> 00:10:00,560
And just in general, growing up, like, the way that you navigate any kind of relationship,

179
00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:06,200
how you resolve conflict, how you, like, express love for another person, how you, like, need

180
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,800
validation, how you share things, like, all of those things are super important that we

181
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,120
learn having siblings at a young age and with our parents.

182
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,120
Agreed.

183
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,200
With friends, it's super cool too, because have you guys read the book?

184
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,680
I gave it to Jo, Everything I Know About Love by Dolly Coddigan.

185
00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,080
Did you read it from cover to cover?

186
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,640
Yeah, I just finished it.

187
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:28,640
Oh, you did?

188
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:29,640
Yeah.

189
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:30,640
I think it's a little nightlight.

190
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,720
She reads it in bed.

191
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:33,720
It's like a three.

192
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,720
You open it up and it's like three different spotlights.

193
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:37,720
It's the funniest.

194
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:38,720
It's in a second switch to the lighting.

195
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,880
Yeah, Jo texted me.

196
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,440
She's like, I'm in my barra, my book era.

197
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,240
She does read in the era.

198
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,240
I said rara.

199
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:47,240
Yeah, her rara.

200
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,280
She reads quite a bit these days, and I'm proud of her for that.

201
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:51,280
So proud of her.

202
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:52,560
But that book was really good.

203
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:56,240
It's a super quick read if people want to buy it.

204
00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:00,800
I just saw it on the shelf because it kind of has a tension grabber title, but it's

205
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,400
a little bit more of a memoir version of Sally Rooney.

206
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,080
I love Sally Rooney.

207
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,080
She went to Trinity.

208
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:09,080
No way.

209
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,080
I'm pretty sure.

210
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,200
But she filmed normal people at Trinity.

211
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,680
Have you read Conversations of Friends?

212
00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:15,680
Yes, it was so good.

213
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:16,680
That book is amazing.

214
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:17,680
It was such a good book.

215
00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:18,680
I know.

216
00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:19,680
I love her.

217
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:20,680
Yeah.

218
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,960
But so Everything I Know About Love is this girl.

219
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,520
She's British, and it's about the first time she talked to a guy on MySpace when she was

220
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:35,000
like 13 all the way to when she's in her 30s and single.

221
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,200
This isn't really giving anything away, I guess.

222
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:48,800
It's just all of her different sexual escapades and terrible nights out with friends.

223
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,720
All the guys that she's hooked up with, she just tells it as a collection of stories.

224
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,760
But her overall argument or thesis of the book is that everything she learned about

225
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,600
love was through her female friendships.

226
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,200
I think that was a really cool point in the end to learn.

227
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,440
I don't know if you agree with that, Joe.

228
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:13,320
She went through roommate living and fights with her best friend, like a loss of a childhood

229
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:14,880
friend.

230
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:21,240
She modeled a lot of how she dealt with people and shared her intimate aspects of herself

231
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,680
and her own problems through those relationships with her friends.

232
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,040
I think that's a really big part.

233
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,040
Yeah.

234
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:29,360
Something about.

235
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,200
I agree with that, definitely.

236
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,400
I don't have a sister.

237
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,920
All my girl cousins, I didn't grow up with them because they lived in the States and

238
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:37,920
I lived in Haiti.

239
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:43,600
I didn't really get the chance besides the adult women in my family, but as a child,

240
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,960
you don't really want to interact with adults at that young age.

241
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:54,120
Other than a lot of things I learned from my brother and my cousins, which when boys

242
00:12:54,120 --> 00:13:00,000
love, they're rough with how they don't really show it overtly, but you know they love you,

243
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,000
right?

244
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,280
Recently, maybe junior year of high school, I started because my mom has a sister and

245
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:07,600
I'm really close with her sister.

246
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:13,080
I started noticing things in their relationship and I was like, wow, this is beautiful.

247
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,760
It's such a beautiful thing to have a sister.

248
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,120
I've had a bunch of girlfriends.

249
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,440
A lot of those relationships faded out for sure because you grow apart and that's totally

250
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:23,440
a part of life.

251
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:30,920
I've had friendship losses, but the relationship I do have now with my mom and her sister,

252
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,240
not even together, just separately, I have two different relationships with them.

253
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,280
I've learned so much from them individually.

254
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,200
It's such a nice thing to have, having women in your life.

255
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:47,920
Obviously, men love shitting on me for having this podcast and the way I talk, but I do

256
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,000
love my guy friends.

257
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,000
I think they're amazing.

258
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:55,400
One of my best friends, he's a guy, so please take all of this with a grain of salt.

259
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:56,400
Thank you.

260
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,760
But I feel like you learn so much from having women around you.

261
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:07,720
I feel like especially older women too because it's kind of corny, but they are wiser and

262
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:12,640
they have much more experience than you and as much as you don't want to listen to your

263
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,000
mom or older women around you.

264
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,800
Your mom's know everything.

265
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,120
They do.

266
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,920
I don't hesitate to tell my mom that nowadays because it's like, oh bitch, you know everything.

267
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,040
You're a savant.

268
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,040
It's crazy.

269
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,040
I don't know.

270
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:35,400
The thing is with that though, as much as you can look at people older than you and

271
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:42,040
see how other relationships are modeled or learn through friendships or just family relationships,

272
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,600
you still won't know everything until you're in it.

273
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,600
Yeah.

274
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,600
I agree with that for sure.

275
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:56,600
You might think that you know how to have a good relationship, but just from observation.

276
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,640
You go through the struggles when you're in it too.

277
00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:59,640
For sure.

278
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,680
We're getting into that.

279
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,360
It's super interesting what you said about having female friends because I was never

280
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:12,720
in a female friend group to this day and that's something that I never really thought that

281
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,400
I needed for whatever reason.

282
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,360
I just clicked with guys more.

283
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,520
It was just easier.

284
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,040
I felt like they were more blunt and upfront.

285
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:26,000
There was no drama and I just meshed better with that.

286
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:34,240
I see Jo and her friend group from back home, you guys as a suite and some of my other friends

287
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,920
from college seeing their childhood friend group and it really is crazy the power of

288
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:46,760
female friendships and how intimate it is, how caring it is, how selfless it is.

289
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,880
You just always have each other's back no matter what.

290
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,800
That's something that I trust my guy friends to have my back 100%.

291
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,320
It's not that same form of intimacy.

292
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,320
It's very different.

293
00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:59,320
Agreed.

294
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,320
Yeah.

295
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,720
I've always thought about that.

296
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,480
I feel like I've seen that with Jo and I'm so happy that she's had that growing up.

297
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:07,480
Yeah.

298
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,120
It's different.

299
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:14,200
It's definitely a different dynamic between obviously guys and girls as much as people

300
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,200
hate to admit it.

301
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,600
Two different things for sure.

302
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,080
And having relationships with both sexes.

303
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,920
It's a totally different dynamic because I look at my relationship with my girlfriends

304
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,920
or my girl cousins and I'm like, oh, this is amazing.

305
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,960
I feel so light and refreshed.

306
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,120
Oh my God.

307
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:37,520
And then I go back home to Haiti and I'm with my guy cousins and I'm like, holy shit, let

308
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:38,520
me fucking breathe.

309
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,400
It's like them pushing me under the water.

310
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,400
Please stop.

311
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,560
But I love it so much.

312
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,960
I think it's such a nice paradox to have.

313
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:53,520
So not even to compare, but to see the differences and revel in the differences because I think

314
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,200
it's such a nice thing.

315
00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:02,160
I think I value not more, but because I grew up with them and I do have such a soft ass

316
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,440
joke, I am obsessed with my little cousin.

317
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:06,560
He's not that much younger than me.

318
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:07,760
He's two years younger than me.

319
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,120
But the conversations we have, I'm able, he's comfortable enough now to talk to me about

320
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:13,120
girls.

321
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:17,440
And it's like the best thing ever and I can tell him anything.

322
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,600
It's such a nice thing to have because I have both sides of the spectrum where it's like,

323
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,320
okay, I can talk to my girlfriends about this and then I can go to my guy friends about

324
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,320
this and it's a nice thing to have, honestly.

325
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,320
It's a healthy balance.

326
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:29,320
Oh, for sure.

327
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,600
You get different needs met and you definitely need your guy friend fix and then your girlfriend

328
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:34,600
fix.

329
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,600
You do, yeah.

330
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,960
I agree with that 100%.

331
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,960
I feel like we kind of covered that question.

332
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,960
I'm so happy you so much came out of that.

333
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,120
This ends up being like three hours long.

334
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:46,120
I know.

335
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:47,120
Okay.

336
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:52,080
So next question, I kind of came up with this last night because I was thinking of it myself.

337
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:57,080
What phase of your, obviously this is specific to everyone, but I feel like kind of everyone

338
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,480
in life has this kind of like enlightening moment, right?

339
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:06,800
So what phase of your life do you think one comes to terms with the feeling the need to

340
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,480
like want someone, want a partner, want a boyfriend, want a girlfriend?

341
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,480
Because I was thinking of this last night and I'm going to give my answer like for me

342
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,520
personally and like I want to hear your thoughts.

343
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,680
Like what point of your life are you, were you like, oh wow, like it would be really

344
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:24,680
nice to have a boyfriend.

345
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:25,680
Interesting.

346
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:26,680
That's a good question.

347
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,680
Do you want to answer first?

348
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:28,680
Okay.

349
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:29,680
I'll answer first.

350
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:35,000
Like I feel like mine wasn't like a sweet thing or like a kind of like cute coming to age

351
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000
thing.

352
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,480
I think it was like after my first kiss, I was like, need him.

353
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,200
Like need him to be my boyfriend, which kind of sucks.

354
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,760
He was an awful boyfriend.

355
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,520
Like we did end up dating, but it was so bad.

356
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:47,920
It was like middle school dating.

357
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,360
Like it was like looking back.

358
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,240
It was so disgusting.

359
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:57,360
Yeah, we held much more than like things in Haiti advance really fast.

360
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:58,360
Oh, really?

361
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,240
Yeah, it was horrible, but he ended up like cheating on me.

362
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:02,480
Like in middle school?

363
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,480
Yeah.

364
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,680
Well, he was like a year older than me, I think.

365
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:06,680
Yeah.

366
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,880
Like I was like eighth grade, like going into ninth grade, whatever.

367
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,120
He was, he was not great, but like I do.

368
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:14,120
I like him now.

369
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:15,120
Honestly, we grow.

370
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:16,120
We learn and we grow.

371
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,200
Like I like him a lot now.

372
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,680
I think he's super funny and charming, but never again.

373
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,200
But I feel like that was kind of my come to Jesus moment where I was like, ooh, like

374
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,840
let me try to explore this.

375
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,960
Like what, what is this about?

376
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,400
Cause like I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, but then we were kind of talking and

377
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,560
then we met about this party and then he kissed me.

378
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,640
And I was like, oh, like it was like kind of a cloud.

379
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:37,640
Indoor box.

380
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,480
And I was like, oh my God, need to like dip my toes in this.

381
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:43,480
Like this is crazy.

382
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:44,480
Was he your first boyfriend?

383
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,480
He was my first boyfriend.

384
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:46,480
First kiss.

385
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:47,480
First kiss.

386
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:48,480
Yeah.

387
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:49,480
So it was like your first interaction.

388
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,480
Yeah.

389
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,480
Like romantically with the boys.

390
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,480
Yeah.

391
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:54,480
Okay.

392
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,480
Yeah.

393
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,520
Kind of deep first, like, cause I've talked to people before that, but it was like never

394
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,000
anything like serious.

395
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,000
Right.

396
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,000
Yeah.

397
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000
I'm going to hear your thoughts.

398
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,000
Yeah.

399
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,880
I'm going to think, I don't feel like I've almost ever had that need.

400
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:10,880
Really?

401
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:11,880
Yeah.

402
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:17,360
Growing up, I was never like what people call it boy crazy.

403
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:22,760
I think I had like one crush in middle school, which I would never say out loud ever, but

404
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,320
Joe knows what I'm talking about.

405
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,120
And then we moved to France.

406
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:34,840
Like it was more, it wasn't ever like I feel like I need a boyfriend.

407
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,920
It was more so like, oh, I like this guy.

408
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,440
Did you ever feel the need to like explore?

409
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,120
Like, no, there was never like a pressure.

410
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:46,120
She's a different case.

411
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:47,120
Yeah.

412
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:48,120
Oh my God.

413
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:49,120
Yeah.

414
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:50,120
Good for you.

415
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:51,120
There was never.

416
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,120
It's always like a very close book.

417
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:53,120
Like you have to like press her to get these answers.

418
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:54,120
Yeah.

419
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:57,120
But it was, maybe it's more just like she didn't have the answers.

420
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:58,120
Yeah.

421
00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,640
It was like, for me, it wasn't like that big of a deal.

422
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,120
My mom would be like, Jamie, I know that you like this boy.

423
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,800
We had this like ongoing joke that she was like.

424
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:05,800
Yeah.

425
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,680
I was like always talking about boys if I'm on.

426
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,600
And I just, I like didn't feel comfortable talking about it.

427
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,800
So maybe it was like one aspect of self denial.

428
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:21,120
Um, but I can't like, I can't really think of a moment where I was like, I need this

429
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,120
or I want this.

430
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:28,320
And even when I got into like, when I had my first boyfriend in high school, I was like

431
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,320
very ambivalent about it.

432
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,760
I remember being like, ah, you know, I don't really like him that much.

433
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,200
Like, why not?

434
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,200
Like, fuck it.

435
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,200
We'll see what happens.

436
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,760
I feel like it digs people in such a deep hole.

437
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,800
And we've talked about this, like being that way.

438
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,920
It's not a bad thing whatsoever, but then it's hard to like crawl yourself out because

439
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:47,920
you're like, whatever.

440
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:48,920
Yeah.

441
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:49,920
Like it is what it is.

442
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:50,920
You know, it was, that was my mistake.

443
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,920
And it got me into a hole, a deep hole.

444
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:55,920
Oh yeah.

445
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:02,240
Even after that, like after we broke up, I was, you know, single for like four years.

446
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,920
And even when I was like, before I started dating my current boyfriend, I didn't really

447
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,600
feel like I had that need either.

448
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,840
And there were definitely moments where I was like, oh, it'd be really nice to watch

449
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,320
this movie with someone else.

450
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,200
Like that would be like the extent of it probably, or like just someone to like do very mundane

451
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,320
things with.

452
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:27,040
But even so, it was like very much focused, like before we, like my current boyfriend

453
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:33,240
after I started dating was very much focused on the friendship part first of like, even

454
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,520
if this doesn't go any like any further, I know that I want to be friends with this person.

455
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,520
Okay.

456
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:40,520
I like that.

457
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,520
I feel like that's where I'm at right now.

458
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,640
Cause like I said, things go super fast and hey, like you start drinking out of the womb.

459
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,840
Like, you know, I always told Joe, like my clubbing era like started like at 12 years

460
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:52,840
old.

461
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,840
How do you say that?

462
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:54,840
Cara.

463
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:55,840
Clara.

464
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:56,840
Clara.

465
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:57,840
Clara.

466
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,840
Clara.

467
00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:59,840
Clara.

468
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:00,840
Clara.

469
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:01,840
Yeah.

470
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,320
So like there's no, there's really no like laws or like regulations and Haiti like we

471
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:06,320
talked about yesterday.

472
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,960
So like you, there's no drinking age.

473
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:13,200
You could go out like, I already had like those phases so early in my life where like

474
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:18,600
right now I feel like I'm at that enlightening stage where I'm like, like I don't really

475
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:19,600
feel the need.

476
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:20,600
If it does happen, beautiful.

477
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,200
I'm not going to go out searching for it.

478
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,200
Yeah.

479
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,000
I think that's a super hot stage.

480
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,000
Really in college too.

481
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,880
Cause I feel like people go bonkers when they come to college and like start like diving

482
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:33,880
into things.

483
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,880
And I was like that like last semester, like start diving into things and you're like,

484
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,880
you have to like take a beat and like, like look at yourself in the mirror kind of like,

485
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,840
okay, why are you doing this?

486
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,600
Like there's no rush.

487
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,960
Like there's no need for you to be doing this, you know?

488
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:48,960
I feel like it's, sorry.

489
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,960
No please.

490
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,240
I feel like they're going in with the wrong, they're going in with the wrong reasons and

491
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,600
it's like clearly you're missing something with yourself if you feel the need right now,

492
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,200
like so desperately to fill that up with somebody else.

493
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,600
Yeah, I agree with this.

494
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,600
I know.

495
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:03,600
My mic always goes in and out.

496
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:04,600
Don't worry.

497
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,000
It's like we hear it like that, but they don't hear it like that.

498
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000
Perfect.

499
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Yeah.

500
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,560
Cause I was like, it was going like that last episode and I was like, but.

501
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,560
I agree with Joe.

502
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,400
I think, I think a lot of people go through that phase in life is where they have all

503
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,520
these opportunities in front of them, whether it's like people, the ability to drink whenever

504
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,920
you want, like some, some perception of like lawlessness and it causes you to go, start

505
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,880
shit crazy and like take advantage of all those things, which is totally fine and everyone

506
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,200
does it at different stages.

507
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,440
And I definitely see that at Columbia, like there are a bunch of nerds who like have never,

508
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,800
they've been so focused on school that they get out and they go to their first party and

509
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,200
then everyone ends up in the hospital.

510
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,880
You know, it's just like a total disaster.

511
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,880
But I think with all that, like it's good to experience it.

512
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,000
It's good to make your mistakes, but at the end of the day, like ask yourself, what are

513
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,000
you trying to give?

514
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,480
Or what are you trying to receive?

515
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,320
Like what are you looking for externally that is, that is trying to fulfill a need that

516
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:04,600
you can't meet yourself?

517
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:05,600
Yeah, for sure.

518
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,320
I think that's definitely something a lot of people need to work on.

519
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,120
Please go to therapy, which we will talk about later.

520
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:16,400
I lost my train of thought.

521
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,400
I'm really sad because it was really good.

522
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,640
Wait, what were you talking about?

523
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,920
Like diving into things too fast.

524
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:25,920
Yeah.

525
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:26,920
Yeah.

526
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:27,920
Maybe a story time.

527
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:34,000
I was, oh yeah, I was constantly like, my hobby was swiping on Tinder and swiping on

528
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,000
it.

529
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,640
And I was like, oh my God, what are you doing?

530
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,200
Like, are you insane?

531
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,720
I had to delete them.

532
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,360
Like, I still don't have them to this day because it's like, what the fuck are you doing?

533
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:45,920
Like you're actually insane.

534
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,920
We're going to get into like dating apps and like hookup culture later.

535
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,440
But I feel like dating apps are so horrible.

536
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,440
Like whoever invented them, like they're super smart because like obviously people fall

537
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:02,560
into it, but like they're such a horrible thing to like put into people's like scope.

538
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,600
Like I think it's such a horrible thing.

539
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,440
Actually, did you know I met John on Hinge?

540
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,440
What?

541
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,440
Shut up to you, John.

542
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,600
No, yeah, that's how we met.

543
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:13,600
Wait, what?

544
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:14,600
Yeah.

545
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:15,600
And now I love John.

546
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,160
I love John and friends now.

547
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,880
And I think in that sense, if it can turn into a friendship, but if you're looking for

548
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,880
like a relationship, it's not.

549
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,600
I did a whole TED talk last semester.

550
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,200
Oh my God, we're so going to get into that.

551
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,200
I'm so pumped.

552
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,200
Okay.

553
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,200
Crazy.

554
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,440
So now we're going to get into first boyfriend slash breakups.

555
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,760
I just want to say the boyfriend I spoke about prior, I don't consider him to be my first

556
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,040
boyfriend like at all because obviously it was middle school and for me that was in a

557
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,920
relationship, but I just wanted to preface that.

558
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,800
So first boyfriend's breakups, thoughts.

559
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,800
Oh my gosh, just open up a question.

560
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,400
Should I have an alias actually?

561
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,400
Please do.

562
00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,400
What should that be?

563
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,400
Yeah.

564
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,240
Mark, like I don't know.

565
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,960
Mark, what's going to come up your tongue?

566
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Johnny.

567
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,960
I mean, it's a J name.

568
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:12,960
It's okay.

569
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:13,960
Johnny.

570
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:14,960
Or I'll just say my ex.

571
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,960
Whatever you want, honestly.

572
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:17,960
Yeah.

573
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,960
Where do I even start?

574
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,640
Obviously, whatever you're comfortable with, please don't go in depth if you don't want

575
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,640
to.

576
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,640
Yeah.

577
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Well, I mentioned earlier that like I got into my, I had my first boyfriend, I think

578
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,600
I was 15.

579
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,920
I was a sophomore in high school and this is when our family moved back to the United

580
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,920
States.

581
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:43,040
And I was like, I'd miss my freshman year at our high school, which contacts very much

582
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,080
a bubble where we live in California.

583
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,800
And everyone has their established friend groups and like I had people that I knew in

584
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,240
middle school and people that I was friends with.

585
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,040
But like two years later after everyone's like navigated that in high school their first

586
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,600
year, it was a different situation.

587
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,720
And I think that is honestly like where I want to start with prefaceing my like first

588
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,600
relationship because it's part of the reason that like at least on my side it ended up

589
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,000
going so badly.

590
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,680
Where I kind of came back to California with this sort of like righteousness like mentality.

591
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,200
Like, I don't know.

592
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,040
I was like, I'm too cool for this.

593
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,800
Like there's nothing that I get from like going to school besides learning, you know,

594
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,080
like I wasn't really in it for like the right reasons, I guess.

595
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,760
And but I still tried.

596
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,400
And like the first day of school, I'll always remember this.

597
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,040
One of my friends still friends to this day, she, her brother would drop us off at school

598
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,600
and he also went to school.

599
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,320
So I know.

600
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,200
And that we like entered the quad for sophomores, you know, like in front of the school.

601
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,000
And I go up to this group of friends that I like knew I've known my entire life and

602
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,000
I was friends with them before I left for France.

603
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,320
And I was like, Hey guys, like I'm re entering the world.

604
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:01,880
Like this is my entrance.

605
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,840
You know, and I'm like, Hey guys, how are you?

606
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,600
Like how have the past two years been like what's up?

607
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,560
Like, you know, I'm trying to like be friendly.

608
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:11,560
Yeah.

609
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,000
Anyway, and they didn't say anything.

610
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,160
They were just staring at you.

611
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,320
They're just like, Oh, hi.

612
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,520
And I'm like, Okay, that was fine.

613
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:27,560
And then they go, they're like, Oh my God, what is that girl Megan doing here?

614
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,960
Why does she still go to the school?

615
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,600
What is she wearing?

616
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:31,600
You're Megan.

617
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,400
No, Megan's just this girl who's like in a different like she's in the quad somewhere

618
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,640
and they're like all looking at her.

619
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,680
And I didn't know who Megan was like she was just someone.

620
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:41,680
And I go, Oh, okay.

621
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Well, that's it.

622
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,680
I'm done.

623
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,680
That's my person.

624
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:45,680
Yeah.

625
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:46,680
I'm like, well, no, not that's my person.

626
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,520
I just like, I don't know who this Megan is again.

627
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,480
It was just I, they said that thing.

628
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,480
I was already trying to come in with like a positive outlook, but also like be open.

629
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,640
And then I gave it a shot and they were just like rude from the start.

630
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,840
So I'm like, you know what, I don't care for this.

631
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,480
Like I'm done.

632
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:09,440
And from there on out, I like very much closed myself off to a lot of friendships.

633
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,920
And which was like fine and bad.

634
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:18,320
But then I like met this guy, Johnny, and we like kind of clicked.

635
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,120
We've known each other for a while at that point.

636
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,320
Like we went to the same.

637
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,640
We had this like one class together, like fourth and fifth grade for like special kids.

638
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,640
Like the advanced.

639
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,640
Yeah.

640
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:29,640
Like something like that.

641
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,640
Not, no, not, no, not special needs.

642
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,560
No, like it was just like whatever.

643
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,360
And so we knew each other from fourth and fifth grade and like his best friend and they

644
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,360
were still friends.

645
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,880
And I, I remember writing in my journal when I was in France, which I, you know, still

646
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,880
look back on sometimes.

647
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,520
I was like, everyone back home is so ugly except for, and then I named Johnny and then

648
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,040
my middle school crush.

649
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,600
And we weren't friends, but like we'd known each other.

650
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,760
And so we got introduced by a mutual friend and we just started hanging out, I guess.

651
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:03,760
And I really liked him.

652
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,080
He was super smart, really artistic.

653
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,080
He was really like cool and like different, but he was also very mature for his age, meaning

654
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,600
that he like did a lot of the things that you did pretty early on.

655
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:22,440
And so I kind of fell in with him and his front group, which was like, I loved all those

656
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,560
guys, but it was sort of my mistake.

657
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,640
Number one was not having a friend group and like, as I told you, I went in with sort of

658
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,680
like, Oh, you know, I don't really like him.

659
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,080
Like we're friends, like whatever.

660
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,080
We'll see what he's handsome.

661
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,000
Like we'll see where this goes.

662
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,720
And then it just, the first year was like a normal high school relationship.

663
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,440
And then after that, it started to go like really off the rails, I think his mental health

664
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,440
declined.

665
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:54,080
And it, like, I don't even, there's so many things Melody like to explain, but it ended

666
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,960
up being like a very codependent relationship.

667
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,640
And I ignored the feelings that I first had.

668
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:06,960
I didn't listen to myself and I didn't have the sort of like security of a social group

669
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:07,960
to fall back on.

670
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:08,960
So I felt stuck.

671
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Yeah.

672
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,040
And that was like a really bad point.

673
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,480
And I felt like things in the relationship, I felt so ashamed to tell anyone else.

674
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,680
I didn't have anyone else to tell those things to.

675
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,520
And so that was something that I lacked the awareness when I was 15, 16 years old.

676
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,480
If I feel ashamed for something that's going on in my life, that's very real.

677
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,920
And I'm not telling anyone about it.

678
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,680
Like that's a hit number one.

679
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,520
And it just ended up being really bad.

680
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:43,400
Like all, like all the things you can think of went on, I guess.

681
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,360
And it got to a point where it was like very on and off relationship.

682
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:51,640
Where like he would mention this girl and he would like sneak out at night and see the

683
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,960
girl and I'm like, what are you guys doing?

684
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,360
And he was lying all the time.

685
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,960
And then we would like break it off and he would go like hook up with that girl afterwards

686
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:01,640
that happened like several times.

687
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:02,640
Yeah.

688
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,360
Or he would try and make him move on people and they're like, hold on, you're dating Jamie.

689
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,360
He's like, no, we're not.

690
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,960
I'm like, what the fuck.

691
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,000
So it was just a disaster.

692
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:19,960
And the codependency was very real where because of his mental health and like his issues, I

693
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:25,000
felt responsible for them because I was only one who was telling them to.

694
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:31,960
And so what happened was, and I only realized this afterwards, that my self worth was based

695
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,600
off of how happy I could make him.

696
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,840
And so if he was upset, then I was upset.

697
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:44,760
Like if something wrong happened in his life, it became my fault because one, he made it

698
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:45,760
that way.

699
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,520
And also I put that on myself.

700
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,320
So it just became this like really horrible system of codependency over time that I was

701
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,760
just so unaware of like the red flags that were going on.

702
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,960
And you know, when I left his house, I would cry every single time when I went home.

703
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,760
Like he made me cry on my 17th birthday because we were broken up and we had to sit next to

704
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:12,920
each other in physics class because he was like his last name is right after mine.

705
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,200
Yeah.

706
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,800
And he didn't say a word.

707
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,800
I'm like, obviously, you know, it's my birthday.

708
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,600
He turned around, like looked at me and said sup.

709
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,480
And I'm like, oh, my God, that was painful.

710
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,280
And then we got to do a lab together.

711
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,280
We were lab partners.

712
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,320
And he was like, yeah, so anyways, I'm dating so and so now.

713
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,320
To you, he said that?

714
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:33,320
Yeah.

715
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,320
And I'm like, are you joking me?

716
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,520
Like, why do you have to put this on me every day?

717
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,240
Like you're such an idiot.

718
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:43,640
And he broke up with me many times, even though I should have broken up with him.

719
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:44,640
Like it was just a disaster.

720
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,200
But that's just to give everyone.

721
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,240
There's a lot of things to fill in there.

722
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:52,800
But like if you can relate to any of that structure of a relationship, then like I'm

723
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:53,800
here with you.

724
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,800
Yeah.

725
00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:00,880
So there's lots of things because we kind of spoke about this when we had our call.

726
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:09,120
I first want to talk about the self worth dependent on your boyfriend's well being, which I don't

727
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,720
think I struggled with it to the point you did.

728
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:18,520
But in my first real relationship, I found myself being like very apologetic.

729
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,880
And so I would like, he would have a shit day and like kind of put it on me and I would

730
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,360
feel like horrible because like, what did I do?

731
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,040
Can I do anything to make it better?

732
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,360
Which like, okay, that's fine.

733
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,240
Like as a girlfriend, you kind of want to make their day better.

734
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:37,080
But also you shouldn't be putting that weight on your shoulders because if you do have a

735
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,240
shit day, sure, like that's fine.

736
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:40,240
We're human.

737
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:41,240
You have those days.

738
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:45,160
But don't like put it all on your don't like take a bead, go for a walk.

739
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,160
Don't call me like that's fine.

740
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,240
But I struggled with that a lot.

741
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,200
And I feel like I struggled with that in other relationships too.

742
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,040
Not only with like boyfriends.

743
00:35:54,040 --> 00:36:00,320
Like I struggle with that, like with that, with my mom's relationship, like I feel like

744
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:06,240
shit when my mom's when my mom's feeling like shit, like it makes me so mad, so upset.

745
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:11,480
And it's like, okay, like, no, you can't be doing that because like your mom's an adult,

746
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,080
like you can't be like putting all of that on you and like she can handle her things

747
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:16,080
on her own.

748
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,000
It's okay to feel bad for them.

749
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:23,840
But this like ongoing back and forth of like being dependent on each other for like happiness

750
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:29,920
is like a really like, like it's just a horrible rabbit hole that is really hard to like dig

751
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,080
yourself back up.

752
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,560
So I want to hear like maybe any advice or like any thoughts or

753
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:44,480
Yeah, well, to your point, like sympathy is one thing or having empathy for someone else

754
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,520
is a really like huge strength.

755
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,960
But when you feel responsible for someone else's emotions to the point that you feel

756
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:57,200
those emotions yourself is sort of a moment where you have to take a step back and ask

757
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,920
yourself some questions.

758
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,040
But there's so much in here.

759
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,520
Like I think as girls, we have a tendency to play the therapist role for boys.

760
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,480
And that's not fair for either people.

761
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:18,080
Because at the end of the day, me helping a boyfriend with his very like serious mental

762
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,520
health issues is never going to fix it one because I'm not a therapist to because I'm

763
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:24,520
in it.

764
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,720
Like in this relationship with this person and I lack the perspective to actually be

765
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:31,720
helpful.

766
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:38,340
And it over time develops something that's really unhealthy that you start to take on

767
00:37:38,340 --> 00:37:44,160
accountability for the way that your partner or your friend or your parents are feeling.

768
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,360
And that's that's very, very toxic.

769
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,920
Yeah, for sure.

770
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,600
And it's the hard part is understanding that in the moment.

771
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:55,600
It's easier to look back.

772
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,720
I didn't realize this until way later when I started therapy at all.

773
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:05,760
And I didn't understand like the part that I played in it, which I never blame myself

774
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,280
by the way for it.

775
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:14,160
I don't feel guilty or responsible for like the pain that I had in high school.

776
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,840
I just think I didn't know any better.

777
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,840
Yeah.

778
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:17,840
And that was that.

779
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,680
But there's just a lot of questions you have to ask yourself.

780
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:28,440
I mean, in any relationship, like there's it can never be healing unless it's done on

781
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,640
your own or with a therapist or like, you know, a medical professional.

782
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,880
And so whatever help that you feel like you can give another person is really not doing

783
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:38,880
anything.

784
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:39,880
Yeah.

785
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:45,040
And so what I had to ask myself and even like in my current relationship is like, am I helping

786
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:50,840
him because I want him to be better or am I helping him because it makes me feel good.

787
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:51,840
Yeah.

788
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:52,840
So like selfishly.

789
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,240
Yeah, which is super weird.

790
00:38:55,240 --> 00:39:00,520
And what you're talking about about apologizing to the boys or to your mother, whoever about

791
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:05,760
something that you don't have to apologize for, that's a huge thing too.

792
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:11,600
I think that's a consequence of codependency is and I remember like a lot of instances

793
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,800
of this happening where I apologize for something that I had no, no business.

794
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:17,800
Yeah.

795
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:25,920
No business apologizing for the first time that I ever like said something to Johnny saying

796
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,400
that like I like, I don't know how to, it's not like a complaint, but like an issue that

797
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,840
I wanted to talk about was that he never asked me how I was doing.

798
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:40,480
We talked about this and it sounds so trivial and basic and like just like an essential

799
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:41,480
part to any.

800
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,480
Yeah.

801
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:43,480
How are you doing?

802
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:49,400
But he never did that and it doesn't, it's not like for one, I want him to be curious

803
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,120
about how I'm doing and how I'm feeling every day, but it was also like a basic principle

804
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,560
of interacting with someone that he never did with me.

805
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:57,560
Yeah.

806
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,560
And he's like, Hey Johnny, why don't you ever ask me how I'm doing?

807
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,200
And he's like, Oh, well, I just, I can just tell.

808
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,640
I'm like, you're not a mind reader.

809
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,360
He's like, I can just tell like, and if you had a problem, you would just tell me.

810
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:09,520
And I'm like, okay, interesting.

811
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,240
And like maybe I would tell him over time, but it would happen with codependency and

812
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:17,680
the nature of the relationship was so that I didn't feel comfortable telling him about

813
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,280
the issues that I was feeling.

814
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,280
Yeah.

815
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:26,160
And I was worried that of his response when I would bring something up that was like genuinely

816
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,200
an issue, even if it was as serious as cheating.

817
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:35,440
And I ended up being the one apologizing for those things.

818
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:36,440
And that is a problem.

819
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,120
Yeah, that's definitely a problem.

820
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:43,560
And I also think it's important to take into consideration the fact that you were so young.

821
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:49,480
And I feel like when people go through these things, that's such a fundamental age of like

822
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,160
finding out who you are and growing up.

823
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,560
It is so detrimental because like how old are you now, you're 21, you just got into

824
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,360
your second relationship.

825
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,840
And like those years between how crazy was like the realizations and the growth you

826
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,400
had to do and the work you had to do on yourself.

827
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,120
Because all of those horrible things that happened in your first relationship happened

828
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:17,240
at like 15, 16, 17, which is like those things are not supposed to happen.

829
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:22,040
Like in your first of all, in your first relationship, like that should not be your first example

830
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,400
of love, you know, because then that ruins so many things which we're going to talk about,

831
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,000
like trust and commitment issues.

832
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,000
Like it ruins so many different things for people.

833
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,280
I'm going through this right now.

834
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,640
I have the worst trust issues.

835
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:41,640
Like I cannot trust it, not even like mostly men, like if I get into a relationship cannot

836
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:42,640
trust you.

837
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,920
Like even friendships also, I don't trust that your intentions are like right because

838
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,400
I've like gone through so much with like different relationships in my life where it's like,

839
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,000
I know you have ulterior motives.

840
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,000
Like I know you're going to do something to like stab me in the back later.

841
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,880
Like I cannot trust you.

842
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,960
And that's the worst because you're low key just like preying on their downfall.

843
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,120
I would do that too.

844
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,960
It's a horrible feeling to have because it's like you kind of know that it's like the little

845
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,080
voice in the back of your head.

846
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,520
Like you know you're kind of inventing these scenarios, but at the same time you can't

847
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,160
help but like not believe them.

848
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,160
Like you totally like you have this voice like pushing like to the forefront of your head

849
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,400
like, oh, this person is going to stab you in the back.

850
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,240
This person is going to fuck you over.

851
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,080
And it's just like a pile on of all these things you went through prior Joe.

852
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,160
Well, no, I'm just agreeing with you.

853
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,600
And I think Jamie has definitely helped me a lot with this, even though I haven't gone

854
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,760
through like the same amount of like, I'll go through it first.

855
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:38,760
Yeah.

856
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:39,760
You don't have to.

857
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:40,760
That's beautiful.

858
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:41,760
No.

859
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:46,600
And like even commitment issues also like I like asked Joe the amount of times like

860
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:52,720
I was talking to a guy what like three weeks ago, I was like terrified, like scared shitless

861
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,120
that like this would turn into something more than a talking stage.

862
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:01,120
Like I'm horrified because I feel like those two like go hand in hand, like trust and commitment

863
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,600
issues where it's like, okay, I cannot commit to this person because I know I'm not going

864
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,160
to be able to trust them like in the future.

865
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,960
It was holding you back from like letting it unfold naturally.

866
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:10,960
Yeah.

867
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,360
It's it's a really horrible feeling.

868
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,880
And I find myself doing that in friendships also where like like first semester of college

869
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,640
I was so closed off like one because I had a boyfriend and that was taking so much of

870
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,880
my time that ended up like going down the fucking shit.

871
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:26,880
Shoot whatever.

872
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:27,880
That was long distance.

873
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:28,880
He was in California.

874
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:29,880
Oh my gosh.

875
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:30,880
Yeah.

876
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:31,880
It was it was crazy.

877
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:37,280
Um, but, um, still love him not in love with him, but like I think he's a great person.

878
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,520
Not like that.

879
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,720
I've been talking about my ex too much on this podcast.

880
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:46,240
Not, but he was the only one that treated me with like decency and respect.

881
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:49,240
Like I do have to kind of praise him for that.

882
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:50,240
Yeah.

883
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:55,920
Um, but no, yeah, I, we, I quoted you kind of, um, with the trust and commitment issues.

884
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:02,280
Like you talked about self manipulation, how that's those things like kind of morph into

885
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,760
a form of self manipulation.

886
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,640
I want to hear your thoughts on that.

887
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:07,640
Trust and commitment.

888
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,960
Like when you have trust and commitment issues, like you kind of convince yourself it's kind

889
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,760
of a way of you manipulating yourself into not getting into things.

890
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:16,760
Yeah.

891
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:17,760
Yeah.

892
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:18,760
This is super interesting.

893
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:19,760
Yeah.

894
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,800
I think for one, like when you're meeting people, sometimes the trust and commitment

895
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:31,360
issues might work in your favor because you don't want to be overly trusting, overly forgiving.

896
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:36,680
And even though I went through like a series of traumatic things for a 16 year old, it

897
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,720
definitely like, it set me back and then it took a really long time for me to like ever

898
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:45,680
like a guy again, but it also meant that the next time I would was going to make it worth

899
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:51,840
it and real because I can, I can sniff a red flag from miles away.

900
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,680
Like I can just see it in like the first interaction.

901
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,160
And I think in general, I'm a very non trusting person.

902
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:03,600
Um, and I think there, you know, three types of people, someone that sees the positive in

903
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:09,200
people, some that sees the negative in people and then others who are just like neutral.

904
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,960
And my friend, Ashlyn, who we were talking about yesterday, she's super neutral.

905
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,120
She's like, she doesn't have any expectations or she's not looking for like something that's

906
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,120
bad about them.

907
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,640
She's just waiting to see and then she's going to make her judgment.

908
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:21,640
Oh my God.

909
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:22,640
I want to be like that.

910
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:23,640
Which is so great.

911
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,640
Oh my God.

912
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:25,640
That's amazing.

913
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,640
Where for me, it's like you're guilty and proven innocent.

914
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:31,400
I mean, that's what I relate to that.

915
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,360
I feel like, especially with guys, I'm like, there's something wrong with you for sure.

916
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,040
Like there's, there's no way you are the way you are.

917
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,160
Like there's like you have skeletons in your closet for sure.

918
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,160
And they're horrible.

919
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,440
Like, no, it's, it's awful.

920
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,000
I don't know if I can sniff a red flag from a mile away because I've definitely been

921
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,560
prone to like allowing red flags into my life.

922
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:58,680
But I feel like now, yeah, I feel like now I'm able to like kind of decipher those red

923
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:03,880
flags, but I don't go looking for them because then I feel like, but I feel like that's something

924
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,680
I've come to terms with like reese very recently.

925
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:11,400
Cause like if I go looking for them, I feel like, okay, then I'm setting myself up for

926
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,840
failure at the end of the day.

927
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:13,840
Like it's not a good thing.

928
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:14,840
Can you say something?

929
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:15,840
Please do.

930
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:16,840
I don't think you go looking for them.

931
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:17,840
I think you're right about that.

932
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,880
But I think like when you see something, you're going to over analyze it and eventually turn

933
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,360
it into a red flag when it doesn't necessarily have to be one.

934
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:26,360
That's very true.

935
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,360
That's the sort of like self manipulation.

936
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,360
Yeah, it's like convincing yourself of something that isn't necessarily true.

937
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,760
I agree about a hundred percent.

938
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,120
And it's, it's a very scary thing to come to terms with.

939
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,040
I've talked about it with my therapist ad nauseam.

940
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,880
She's so sick of me, but I mean, I have to heal from that in order.

941
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:53,720
Trust is a foundation of every single relationship and you can't have one unless there's trust

942
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:54,720
there.

943
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:55,720
I agree.

944
00:46:55,720 --> 00:47:02,520
I had a very untrusting first relationship and a lot of friendships that I was like

945
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,960
stabbed in the back or there was some kind of falling out and I like judge them for something

946
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:08,960
that they did.

947
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,920
And I tend to see people in like these black and white, which I realized after is like,

948
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:18,880
you have to be fully well rounded and I hold them to like the expectations that I hold

949
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:19,880
myself to.

950
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,320
And if they can't meet that, then like goodbye.

951
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,160
And that's probably why I don't have very many friends is because I hold them to such

952
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,240
high standards, which is very unrealistic.

953
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:33,000
And like everyone has skeletons in their closet too.

954
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,560
Like you were saying, and you can't judge everyone for those things.

955
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:38,560
Like you and I have them.

956
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,560
Joe might have some.

957
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,560
Maybe.

958
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,800
I was like, no, I'm perfect.

959
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,280
And yeah, you have to let those things like unfold naturally.

960
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:54,120
And if there is something that they say that's deceiving and that's rude or offensive, then

961
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,160
you can judge them for that, but you can't like just try and constantly mind read or

962
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,040
perceive that these might happen because mind reading is not actually a thing.

963
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,040
It's so not.

964
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,680
And I feel like some people need to realize that.

965
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:11,760
Like I was definitely like that, like before in power relationships where I was like, okay,

966
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:12,760
like over analyzing.

967
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,640
I'm such an over analyzer.

968
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:20,000
Like I nitpick everything and I create these scenarios in my head where I'm like, okay,

969
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,240
you're going stir crazy.

970
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:22,360
Like this is not normal.

971
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,360
Like please take things for what they are.

972
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,280
And like some things do not have like hidden meanings behind them.

973
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,960
Like it's okay for things to be the way they are.

974
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,080
Like, but something I definitely need to work on.

975
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,760
But like, do you want to say something, Joe?

976
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:38,760
I don't know.

977
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,840
I was just kind of bring I was going to bring it back to the conversation you were telling

978
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,040
me last night about you and your therapist because I feel like with my last relationship,

979
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,720
Jamie was always like towards the when we weren't dating, but like with that person,

980
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:52,840
Jamie was always telling me like, you're setting him up to fail.

981
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:53,840
Yeah.

982
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:54,840
Yeah.

983
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,040
And I thought that was really interesting when you were telling me last night about like

984
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:01,440
your third therapist just saying like, you trust him, you know, he's a good person.

985
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:06,480
And to like let him do these things, like understand it, but don't like hold it to him

986
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:07,480
and move on.

987
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:08,480
Yeah.

988
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:09,480
100%.

989
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,760
And that's like a legacy of the trust issues I had before.

990
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,240
And I want to like get into like on the topic of trust and commitment of like what it's

991
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:18,240
like to get back into relationship.

992
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,920
I don't know if that's a different question.

993
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,720
We are like in the getting over X slash closure.

994
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:24,720
Okay.

995
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:25,720
That's slightly different.

996
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:26,720
Okay.

997
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:27,720
Then get into it, please.

998
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:28,720
Yeah.

999
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:32,720
So then we can go back to Joe's point because that's super important.

1000
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:38,360
There's like only so much healing you can do in between relationships, right?

1001
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:43,560
And I tried to work endlessly to give everything to myself, like all the things that I saw

1002
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:48,320
externally from my ex, I was like, I can no longer rely on anyone for these things.

1003
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,440
Like I'm only giving them to myself.

1004
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,680
I'm going to have a friend group and I would like, I would literally make audio recordings

1005
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,800
late at night be like, you cannot have another boyfriend until you do these things.

1006
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,480
And then I'd let, I just talked for like 30 minutes.

1007
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,760
And like one of them was having a friend group because that's super important to like

1008
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:11,720
have people that you can trust and rely on and that can meet other needs that your partner

1009
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:14,120
can't, which is fine.

1010
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:19,680
Because I think also these days we put everything into one person.

1011
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,840
And I'm personally responsible for that is that we, we need this person to do and meet

1012
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,240
everything for us.

1013
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,440
And that's very unrealistic and that's a lot of pressure.

1014
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,840
No healthy relationship should be that sort of like one way street.

1015
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:39,640
Um, but so as I like in those four years when I was single, I was going to therapy.

1016
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,840
I was doing all the self work and it got to a point where I was like, you know what, I

1017
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,840
could be single for the rest of my life.

1018
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:46,840
I feel good.

1019
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,240
Like I'm, I'm at my peak right now.

1020
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:53,880
And then I met this guy that I liked and I'm like, oh shit, what do I do?

1021
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,360
Because we were friends first.

1022
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,080
We like respected each other, which was huge.

1023
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,480
We valued each other as like friends in our lives and people that we could give advice

1024
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,040
to and we had so much fun together.

1025
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:10,080
And then it like progressed past that point and I had to ask myself like, okay, I'm literally

1026
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,800
at this moment where I'm like, I have to decide whether to commit or not because otherwise

1027
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,480
it's unfair.

1028
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,360
And it's weird because I am not like, I'm not a hookup person.

1029
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:26,000
It's not that I wanted another person or like, you know, the commitment, it wasn't that I

1030
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,000
couldn't commit.

1031
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,760
It was like, there was something else in me that was not about like, oh, I need to keep

1032
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:32,760
myself open.

1033
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,320
It was, I just, for some reason I can't do it.

1034
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,280
Like something's holding me back.

1035
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:42,160
And so it's like, no matter how much self work you do in between relationships, you're going

1036
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,080
to get to a point where there's a boy you like, there's a girl you like, and you just

1037
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,120
have to jump in.

1038
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,720
Because there's, there's like, it opened the can of worms and I finally entered another

1039
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:55,880
relationship of like all the things that I couldn't work on myself that could only be

1040
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,960
tested with another person.

1041
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:03,760
And my boyfriend was saying like, as a friend, like sometimes we would put the front hat

1042
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,840
on and I would have to like consciously put the front hat on when he was telling me about

1043
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,240
his like exes.

1044
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:14,520
He put the front hat on and he was like, Jamie, just so you know, as your friend, like, you

1045
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,400
have to just trust someone.

1046
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:21,040
Like you just have to trust them and see what happens because you're never going to get to

1047
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:28,480
a point unless you consciously like decide to do that and be okay with something like

1048
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,560
a mistake happening later or being okay with like being betrayed or like, you know, we fear

1049
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,080
the possibility of someone letting us down so much that we never even give them the opportunity

1050
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,080
to trust them, which is huge.

1051
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:46,320
And so that goes back to Joe's point is that even in the relationship, there's so many

1052
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:51,120
lingering effects from my ex where he'll say something and I'll assume the worst and I'll

1053
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,080
assume the most distrusting thing.

1054
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,560
And to the point where it's not even when he says like, I make up words in my head.

1055
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:58,560
It's so weird.

1056
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,040
And I was hearing you guys last night, I was like, Oh, Jamie.

1057
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:07,160
Yeah, like I totally interpreted things, which is super unfair.

1058
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:13,440
And like my that distrusting lens that I put on every single day to self protect is like

1059
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,320
not doing me any good and it's setting him up to fail like Joe said.

1060
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:18,320
Yeah.

1061
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,560
And it's a really horrible feeling.

1062
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,920
And I feel like back to the point of like being single and like you give yourself all

1063
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,600
these things, but then you come to the point where you like kind of have to commit.

1064
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,560
I feel like it's something you owe to yourself, you know, especially after all these years

1065
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,640
of being single, like you owe it to yourself, like not to be selfish or anything, but you

1066
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:44,600
do owe that to Jamie to like try, like just do it, you know, just like as if someone's

1067
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:49,360
pushing you, you know, like you have to push yourself to like, Okay, I'm going to do it.

1068
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,360
Like that's it.

1069
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:55,200
Like that's literally what it comes down to is just like making that self conscious choice.

1070
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,400
Which is a big thing for sure.

1071
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:04,560
I feel like you have definitely a special case, like horrible, like emotionally abusive relationship,

1072
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,840
for years being single and then you have like that little come to Jesus moment where it's

1073
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,080
like, Oh, no, I like someone like what's going on.

1074
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,160
Yeah, it's definitely like a crazy thing.

1075
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,280
I'm not at that point yet.

1076
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:23,960
I don't think I've only been single for like almost a year, like 11 months now actually.

1077
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:29,720
You broke up with me right before my birthday.

1078
00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:32,280
So the milestone is the day before your birthday.

1079
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,280
I think that's a good thing to celebrate though.

1080
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,280
It was so sad.

1081
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,280
I got so drunk.

1082
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,520
I vomited all over my best friend, like my ex-best friend, like the party was at her house.

1083
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,080
I vomited all over her mom's like, you know how people have like nice living rooms and

1084
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,840
then living rooms for like regular people.

1085
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,840
I threw up all over the night.

1086
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,840
And we flipped the cushion.

1087
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,160
She does not know to this day.

1088
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,080
It was so bad and I did such regrettable things that night too.

1089
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,280
Like it was, I didn't give myself the time I needed.

1090
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:13,080
I was being very impulsive and it was just like, I'll tell you guys after this because

1091
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,880
I'm not going to incriminate myself on this in case someone listens.

1092
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,880
But no, yeah.

1093
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:25,520
Now I want to talk about being single those four years for me the past 11 months.

1094
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,400
Let's talk about that being single.

1095
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:32,520
The experience now obviously you're in a relationship, but what was that like being finally being

1096
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,520
released from the shackles of Johnny?

1097
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,520
What was that like?

1098
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:46,680
I would say like the first, it took me like a year to get over him.

1099
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:53,840
Not that I like still liked him, but to get over those like impulses that had been ingrained

1100
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:59,680
into me from like the codependency I was talking about, there's sort of like the reflexes that

1101
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,200
I had.

1102
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:04,640
And the problem was that he wouldn't stop communicating with me.

1103
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,640
Yeah, we talked about that.

1104
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,640
Please like no communication is so key.

1105
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,640
Oh my gosh, Joe, I know you feel strongly about this.

1106
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,640
Please, please, please like die.

1107
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,640
We're all here right now.

1108
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:24,440
But I also feel like this was a super interesting situation where as like Johnny's family was

1109
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:29,080
a huge part of our family's lives like after they broke up, which I don't think a lot of

1110
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,080
people have to go through.

1111
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,200
His name was constantly bringing up or getting brought up like his family was constantly around.

1112
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,240
And also like he was communicating with you like he was reaching out.

1113
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:44,120
So you never really had like the time to like fully for not even forget about him, but like

1114
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:45,640
have that space without him.

1115
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,040
Yeah, 100%, which is super crucial.

1116
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,240
And I never believed in blocking someone.

1117
00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:55,600
I thought like I it's the same thing where I told my mom once I wanted to get a flip

1118
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,160
phone and I've been waiting for this thing to break it on the case.

1119
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,640
I'm like, I just won't have a phone anymore.

1120
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:06,400
And she's like, Jamie, if you really want to live without a phone, then it's better

1121
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:12,760
to be able to control yourself with the temptation than to block it out completely.

1122
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,520
And I know.

1123
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:17,760
I know.

1124
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,840
And so that hit because it hit so many other things.

1125
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,720
And that I think has to do with like blocking people on social media or blocking their numbers

1126
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:31,600
was like I'd rather know that I had no desire to talk to him with, you know, his name sitting

1127
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:32,600
right on my phone.

1128
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:33,600
That's such a good point.

1129
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,120
I'm gonna add to that after.

1130
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,080
Then like blocking it.

1131
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,960
And you know, but sometimes it's like really helpful to just block them because it's like

1132
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,680
unsafe for them to be contacting you.

1133
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,360
And like I had moved abroad at this point.

1134
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,760
And to Joe's point, we broke up like the last time, I guess, on a family vacation.

1135
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:55,240
And I remember the story family so much like to this day.

1136
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,120
I like cried the last time I saw his mom and his grandmother.

1137
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,040
They're amazing.

1138
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:03,040
So that sucks.

1139
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,320
But yeah, I had moved abroad.

1140
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:07,320
I was living in Ireland.

1141
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,080
So I was like, this is my free break.

1142
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:10,080
Like this is amazing.

1143
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,600
I don't have to talk to anyone.

1144
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,880
I'm on a completely different time zone.

1145
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,800
And he would call me at like six in the morning.

1146
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,360
Like almost every day I would wake up to a FaceTime from him.

1147
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:20,920
FaceTime is fucking crazy.

1148
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:21,920
Oh my God.

1149
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,920
And we were still like, we were still talking.

1150
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,200
Like I was definitely playing a part in it.

1151
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,040
And it was like pretty innocent.

1152
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,920
I found out later that he was dating someone that whole time, but he was telling me like

1153
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:35,280
I still love you.

1154
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,280
Like I'll never find someone else like you.

1155
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:38,960
And I'm just realizing that now.

1156
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,400
I'm like, yeah, no duh.

1157
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,080
But like stop trying to cramp my style.

1158
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:49,360
And it was very much like, it's so classic that he's trying to prevent me from like having

1159
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:50,360
my independence.

1160
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:51,360
It's so classic.

1161
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:52,680
It's such a classic trope.

1162
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:53,680
Yeah.

1163
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:54,680
It's like, please stop.

1164
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:55,680
Yeah.

1165
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:00,560
Kind of to your point of what your mom said, which I think is like, I never thought of

1166
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:01,560
that.

1167
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,760
But like, I feel like we, some people do that unintentionally.

1168
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:06,000
Like I kind of did that.

1169
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,800
Like I kind of came to that realization because like my last ex again, love him.

1170
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,920
He was the best ex ever.

1171
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,280
I would never get back together with him because too much happened.

1172
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:21,120
But like when we broke up, it didn't end on bad terms, but obviously like a breakup.

1173
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,840
It's like, oh, like I fucking hate him.

1174
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:23,840
He's a piece of shit.

1175
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,080
Like in the moment, you know, and I was like so ready to press that block button.

1176
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,880
But I was like, no, I'm not going to do that.

1177
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,280
But at the beginning it was kind of like out of spite because like the next day was my

1178
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,360
birthday and I knew I was going to be looking cute like in my dress or whatever.

1179
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,920
So it's like, I want him to fucking see this.

1180
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,640
Like at the beginning it was like kind of in that sense.

1181
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,720
But after I was like, like I have the ability, but I'm not doing it.

1182
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,080
And then he ended up calling me.

1183
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:53,720
He called me like what five times last semester, like after we broke up the first semester,

1184
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:59,240
he called me once like the first time I was so confused because I had not to lead it.

1185
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,360
Like I removed the contact, but his number like I still knew what his number was and

1186
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,800
he like called me and I saw the like area code and like I saw like the, you know how

1187
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,560
it says like the state.

1188
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:13,120
And so I was like, well, I don't know anyone else from California.

1189
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,200
There's only my uncle and I know his ass is sleeping.

1190
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,560
It was like 2am for them.

1191
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,560
And I was like, like, should I answer?

1192
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,000
I was with my friend at the time and I was like, okay, I'm going to answer.

1193
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,320
I'm going to put him on speaker and like you told me what to say.

1194
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:26,320
And like we just started talking.

1195
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,600
It was a regular conversation.

1196
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,440
Like he was super giddy though.

1197
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,760
Like he was like almost too happy to hear my voice and I was like, oh, I don't like

1198
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:35,760
this like at all.

1199
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,640
But I was trying to like keep my cool because I was still not over him.

1200
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,960
So I was like, I wanted to be like giddy also like, oh my God, I miss you so much.

1201
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,120
And it's like, no, like you have to stop yourself.

1202
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,080
Like you cannot say those things, but it's just nice to have that ability where it's

1203
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:53,600
like, okay, like he's there, but I don't, I don't need to like call him or text him.

1204
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:57,160
Like I don't feel that urge anymore, which is such a nice thing.

1205
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:01,520
And I feel like that kind of plays into like the closure part or like getting over someone.

1206
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:02,800
It's such a nice thing.

1207
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,880
Like I do love a block button, but like not, not in that way.

1208
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,080
There's certain times when it's definitely necessary.

1209
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,600
I'm like, I would tell a friend, like I think you just need to block him because this is

1210
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:17,800
too much, but it's really not healthy to be communicating afterwards.

1211
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:18,800
Like sure.

1212
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:20,760
And like a couple months you can check in house life.

1213
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:25,000
How are you like just because you're curious about someone that you cared about, but especially

1214
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:30,120
in a relationship that was not healthy, like he's literally just throwing that like fishing

1215
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,840
hook or something and trying to reel me back in.

1216
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,760
And that wasn't healthy, especially when I was literally across the world trying to do

1217
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:37,760
my own thing.

1218
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,160
I'm shocked he didn't book a flight.

1219
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,320
That would have been fucking crazy.

1220
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:43,320
Oh my God.

1221
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:48,840
Yeah, no, but he, it was like, it was all for show, I think, I don't know, but it was

1222
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,680
a lot to be like receiving all that stuff from him.

1223
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,200
And I just kind of stopped responding, stopped engaging and eventually like a year later

1224
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,400
it died out.

1225
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,680
And I like haven't spoken to him since, which is amazing.

1226
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:02,680
Yeah.

1227
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:06,160
But it definitely like stopped me from healing.

1228
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,680
So when I say that I wasn't over him, it wasn't that I was still in love with him or

1229
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:10,680
so liked him.

1230
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:15,440
It was just that like, there was no freedom for me to heal when I was still in contact

1231
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:16,440
with him.

1232
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,400
And he was still playing that shit.

1233
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,880
And I found out always dating someone while he was telling me all these things.

1234
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:27,840
And I think it's such an interesting story because after all the shit that he did to

1235
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:34,360
me and that like the weird stuff that we did together, it wasn't cheating.

1236
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,040
It wasn't like emotional abuse or verbal abuse.

1237
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,160
It was on FaceTime once.

1238
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:41,920
Like this was the thing that released me.

1239
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:42,920
I remember this.

1240
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:43,920
It was the day before my birthday.

1241
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:44,920
Yeah.

1242
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,920
The day before I think I turned 19 maybe.

1243
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:48,920
Was it 20?

1244
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:49,920
No, it was 19.

1245
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:51,920
It was my first year in college.

1246
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:52,920
Okay.

1247
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:53,920
Yeah.

1248
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:54,920
Yeah, you're right.

1249
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,520
And this was during lockdown in Ireland, which was sucky.

1250
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,280
And I was writing in my journal.

1251
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:01,560
Actually no, step back.

1252
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,080
He called me and he's like, you know what, Jimmy?

1253
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:06,080
Fine.

1254
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:07,640
I'll move to Europe for you.

1255
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:08,640
I'll go anywhere.

1256
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,720
As long as weed's legal, I'll just do it.

1257
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:11,720
It's no problem.

1258
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,200
I'm like, where is this coming from?

1259
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:15,800
And he's like, yeah, it's fine.

1260
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:21,200
We'll have a cabin somewhere and all the outside chopping wood and you'll be in the

1261
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,520
kitchen cooking.

1262
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:30,000
And that for whatever reason, not the cheating, not anything else, that was what sent me.

1263
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,480
I was disgusted from that point on.

1264
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:40,400
It was the audacity to say something like that for whatever reason, the sexism, the misogyny,

1265
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,360
it was that that sent me over the edge.

1266
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:49,360
And all of a sudden it was a crazy moment where I went, oh my God, I'm freed.

1267
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:50,360
It's done.

1268
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:51,360
It happened.

1269
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:52,360
I had my moment.

1270
01:03:52,360 --> 01:04:00,080
And I wrote a diary entry that was saying, it was like, this is your moment, all caps,

1271
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:05,240
saying the best you can do is keep it for a friend, but you have to remember the power

1272
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:09,920
it is to be by yourself because you'll never get that back.

1273
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,560
And it was so powerful and I felt liberated.

1274
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:18,800
And I went grocery shopping to get stuff for a wine night for my birthday.

1275
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:20,520
And it's so weird.

1276
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,280
I think it was a universe thing.

1277
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:27,280
And I go into the cheese section for like a cheese board.

1278
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,280
Can you use a different name for it?

1279
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:31,280
What?

1280
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:32,280
Okay, you got to like, this is your own problem deal.

1281
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:33,280
Just take your headphones off.

1282
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,280
Joe doesn't like cheese, so.

1283
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,640
She hates it.

1284
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:42,760
I'm going to the cheese section and the cheese boy, we call him cheese boy, like the guy

1285
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,560
behind the counter at this grocery store.

1286
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:45,560
Oh my God.

1287
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:46,560
It was just like he locked eyes.

1288
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,560
No, I don't know what his name was.

1289
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:52,400
His name is cheese boy for all that matters.

1290
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,560
We like locked eyes and it was like, if I were to have a love at first sight moment,

1291
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:57,560
it was this.

1292
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:58,560
We locked eyes.

1293
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:00,560
It was like, oh my God, who are you?

1294
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:01,560
Who are you?

1295
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:02,560
And we were laughing.

1296
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:03,560
We were just like talking.

1297
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:04,560
He gave me free stuff.

1298
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:06,560
And I was like, that was so crazy.

1299
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:10,880
And I don't know if it's like the universe putting it out there for me, which I definitely

1300
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:11,880
believe in.

1301
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:19,200
Or it was like the energy that I was giving out because of that release was allowing people

1302
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:24,440
to like, in turn connect with me or something, you know, but that was like a huge moment.

1303
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:26,480
And after that, I felt very liberated.

1304
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:27,480
Wow.

1305
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,080
And we're going to go on the closure.

1306
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,040
And so this is like very much a follow up.

1307
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:32,040
Okay.

1308
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:33,040
Wow.

1309
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:34,040
That's amazing.

1310
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:35,040
Oh my God.

1311
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:36,760
That's such a beautiful story.

1312
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:37,760
I know.

1313
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:38,760
It was crazy.

1314
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:39,760
I hadn't heard that word yet.

1315
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:40,760
I never talked to him the choose boy after that though.

1316
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:41,760
Oh.

1317
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:42,760
I mean, it's okay.

1318
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,720
I hope he's doing okay in Ireland.

1319
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,200
He looked like Nile Hornet.

1320
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:47,200
Hornet.

1321
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:48,200
Horn.

1322
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:49,200
I don't like that.

1323
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:50,200
Me either.

1324
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,040
No, but like, are you referring to the correct one?

1325
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:54,040
The one direction guy?

1326
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:55,040
Yeah.

1327
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:56,040
The blonde one?

1328
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:57,040
Yeah, but like better.

1329
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:58,040
He wasn't blonde.

1330
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,040
He was like Burnett, but he had like blue eyes.

1331
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:00,040
Like he had blue eyes and.

1332
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:01,040
So not Nile Horn.

1333
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:02,040
No, it wasn't him, but he's also Irish.

1334
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,040
Okay.

1335
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,040
But anyway, he was cute.

1336
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,040
I think so too.

1337
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,040
She doesn't really know them.

1338
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,040
Well, it's not hair styles.

1339
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:16,040
Definitely not.

1340
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:17,040
No.

1341
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:18,040
No.

1342
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:21,040
Could like a mix between the two you guys, like brown hair, blue eye.

1343
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:22,040
He was cute.

1344
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:23,040
Okay.

1345
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:24,040
I trust your judgment.

1346
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:25,040
Thank you.

1347
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:27,040
I trust 19 year old Jamie.

1348
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,040
I don't know.

1349
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,040
As for me being single.

1350
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:38,040
I don't think I've had a specific moment where I was like, because again, I was never in

1351
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:43,040
like, in a relationship where it was like, I need to be released from this.

1352
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,040
But like, I do think I'm over him for sure.

1353
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,040
Like I'm not in love with him anymore.

1354
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:53,040
He's always like, I told Joe this, he's the one I'm going to tell like my kids about for

1355
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:54,040
sure.

1356
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:55,040
Like this was like for sure.

1357
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,040
Like the boyfriends prior to that don't matter to me.

1358
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,040
Like you were not your friend.

1359
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,040
Like you were not a boyfriend whatsoever.

1360
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:07,040
But this kid, like I was head over heels in love with him.

1361
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:08,040
It was crazy.

1362
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,040
Like I genuinely thought I'm going to build my life with this person.

1363
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:12,040
I'm going to marry this person.

1364
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:13,040
I have kids.

1365
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:14,040
And I was so young too.

1366
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:19,040
But it's just like that unshakable feeling where it's like, I see you in my future.

1367
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,040
Like you're my future husband.

1368
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,040
You're the future father of my kids and whatever.

1369
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:24,040
No.

1370
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:25,040
Yeah.

1371
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:26,040
It was crazy.

1372
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:27,040
No.

1373
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:31,040
It was nice because it was reciprocated and I know for a fact it was reciprocated because

1374
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:36,040
I knew this kid for like not forever, but like for a really long time before and like

1375
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,040
we were friends before too, which was really nice.

1376
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:43,040
And so he's the one I'm always going to like, if my daughter asked me about like boy advice,

1377
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:47,040
he's the first one like I'm going to tell her about or whatever.

1378
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,040
But I kind of like being single.

1379
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:50,040
I love it.

1380
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,040
There's no like attachment to anything honestly.

1381
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:54,040
Yeah.

1382
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:59,540
And I feel like I because I was definitely I did have a boy crazy phase in my life where

1383
01:07:59,540 --> 01:08:04,040
I was like constantly like not in and out of relationships like in and out of like situations

1384
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,040
where I was like, please take a seat.

1385
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,040
Like you're one, you're too young for this too.

1386
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,040
This is not you're trying to like fill a gap in your life for sure.

1387
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:15,040
I totally forgot that this is about being single.

1388
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:17,040
The question in the first place.

1389
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:18,040
I feel like I went on a tangent.

1390
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:19,040
No, but I like where it went.

1391
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:20,040
So much there.

1392
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:26,040
It led to a good segue for getting over someone in closure.

1393
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,040
So I just want to tell an anecdote.

1394
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:33,040
I love anecdotes and then in turn something my therapist told me way later.

1395
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:36,040
It's gonna be a good segue for our therapy segment.

1396
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:37,040
Yes.

1397
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:43,040
So as Joe mentioned, our families like my ex's family and our family super close friends.

1398
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,040
And after I think it was Christmas time.

1399
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:53,040
My first year in college, like when this stuff was going on, they came over for like, what

1400
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,040
ended up being a really fun night.

1401
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,040
We had karaoke.

1402
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:57,040
We all got super drunk.

1403
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,040
Like it was so fun.

1404
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:00,040
Was he there?

1405
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,040
He was there, which at the time I was like, okay, that's fine.

1406
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:04,040
I guess whatever.

1407
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:08,040
Now it would be like absolutely not because I think I don't know how I would react, which

1408
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:12,040
I'm very curious to test at some point.

1409
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:18,040
But there ended up being a moment where we were alone in the bathroom and he started talking

1410
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,040
about a friend, like a mutual friend.

1411
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,040
He was like, I can't believe this guy.

1412
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:24,040
He's like cheating on all these girls.

1413
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,040
Like he can't keep one at a time.

1414
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,040
And he was like ranting about this guy.

1415
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:29,040
I'm like, wait a second.

1416
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,040
You did all of those things to me.

1417
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,040
Like who are you to talk about this?

1418
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,040
And he goes, yeah, Jamie, you know about that.

1419
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:41,040
Like I really want to like, I'm not sure if he actually used the word sorry.

1420
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,040
But he's like, you know, I was 16.

1421
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:44,040
I was stupid.

1422
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,040
Like I didn't know what I was doing.

1423
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,040
I was really immature.

1424
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:53,040
And maybe he said, I just want to say I'm sorry or something, but I highly doubt it.

1425
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:56,040
And I go, Oh, wow, you know what, Johnny?

1426
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:58,040
That's like very nice of you to say.

1427
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:02,040
And you know what, like as shitty as that all was, I really learned a lot and I feel like

1428
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,040
I'm a better person for it.

1429
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,040
And it's like put me so much ahead.

1430
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:11,040
While I'm saying that sentence, he walks out of the room.

1431
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:18,040
I remember when you told me mid sentence, he just leaves and I'm like, what the fuck.

1432
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,040
And I was so mad and I'm like, are you joking me?

1433
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:26,040
Like once again, this guy is apologizing and it just, it will never.

1434
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:27,040
Jesus.

1435
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,040
It like it will never be that moment.

1436
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:32,040
Like he's incapable of saying an apology.

1437
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:34,040
He's incapable of hearing someone out.

1438
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:36,040
It's just not part of who he is.

1439
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:37,040
Yeah.

1440
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,040
And I will never forget that moment.

1441
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:45,040
And years later, I talked maybe like two years, actually, I talked to my current therapist about it.

1442
01:10:45,040 --> 01:11:01,040
And she was like, you know what closure is a myth, Jimmy, because closure is giving up control, putting your emotions in the other person's hand and allowing them to do to give you something that you need.

1443
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:06,040
And you can't truly get over someone if you're getting that from the other person.

1444
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:10,040
It has to be completely on your own because you're never going to have that perfect moment.

1445
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:16,040
Like what we see in the movies or TV shows where like a broken up couple, they meet back up and they're like, you know what, I'm so sorry.

1446
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:17,040
Like I still love you.

1447
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:19,040
Oh, it doesn't exist.

1448
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:20,040
Yeah.

1449
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:21,040
It's a complete myth.

1450
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:28,040
And so if you're, if you find yourself like going back to your ex, trying to text them, trying to post that picture to get their attention.

1451
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:31,040
Like, it is doing you so much harm.

1452
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:32,040
It is.

1453
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:33,040
It's really, really bad.

1454
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:40,040
And like it takes so much self control though to like stop yourself before you get to that moment because it's never going to be what you're looking for.

1455
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:46,040
It's never going to be that moment that you pictured and it's not going to, it's not going to serve you any good.

1456
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:47,040
Wow.

1457
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:48,040
Yeah.

1458
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:49,040
That is profound.

1459
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:51,040
Closure is not real.

1460
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,040
That's, it's coming from a real therapist.

1461
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:58,040
So please, I never claimed to be a therapist and I have Jamie.

1462
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,040
So yeah, it's coming from a real therapist.

1463
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:07,040
So speaking of therapy, I always talk about how I'm an avid therapy goer.

1464
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:11,040
I have two therapists, one in Haiti and one here.

1465
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:16,040
And I know Joe recently started going, which I'm so proud of.

1466
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:21,040
Joe, I think that's because of our Jera, her Joe era.

1467
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:27,040
And Joe told me so much and now you have told me so much about how you also are an avid therapy goer.

1468
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:35,040
So I want to hear about how you got into that and the reasons for it and how it's helped you or how it's been going.

1469
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:36,040
Yeah.

1470
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,040
Therapy has been the best thing in my entire life.

1471
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:40,040
Agreed.

1472
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:50,040
I think the first time I like wanted a therapist was actually in high school and I was anxious all the time from my relationship and my ex went to a therapist.

1473
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:53,040
So I didn't really know that that was a thing until high school probably.

1474
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:58,040
And I remember working up the nerve to ask my mom for a therapist.

1475
01:12:58,040 --> 01:12:59,040
Did I ever tell you this?

1476
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:00,040
I don't remember.

1477
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:01,040
Yeah.

1478
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,040
And she was like, okay, Jamie, if that's what you need, then we'll talk about it.

1479
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:10,040
No worries, but I just want to be able to support you and know what's going on in your life.

1480
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:14,040
And I'm like, yeah, that's fine, but I think I need a professional to speak to.

1481
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,040
And it never ended up happening.

1482
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:25,040
And then after I left Ireland and I was seeing ghosts and stuff and I thought that I like might be schizophrenic.

1483
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,040
I was like really worried.

1484
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:28,040
So I'm like, okay, you know what?

1485
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,040
I need this right now.

1486
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,040
And it was a good moment to have a therapist because I was moving.

1487
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:39,040
I had just left a foreign country that I was living in for two years and I was moving to New York City.

1488
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:43,040
And so like a life transition is a really good time to get a therapist.

1489
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:46,040
And so I just went to better help because it was easy.

1490
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:52,040
I didn't have to like, I didn't have to ask anyone like I just did it and 30 minute sessions or something.

1491
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:57,040
You can text them as much as you want, which was a really great like starting point.

1492
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:00,040
But I don't think I really clicked with my therapist that much.

1493
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,040
And like therapists, you definitely have to shop around for.

1494
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:04,040
For sure.

1495
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:09,040
Like, not like it's not a one size fits all like you definitely have to make it personalized.

1496
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:10,040
Yeah.

1497
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:12,040
And that part of that is having a therapist that you really sync with.

1498
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:17,040
I remember I told Joe my first therapy session ever after my parents divorce.

1499
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:22,040
I just stood there like I sat there looked at the lady for an hour and a half did not say a word.

1500
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:26,040
I think she only knew my name and I was like, Nope, I'm not telling you shit.

1501
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:27,040
Like I don't trust you.

1502
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:28,040
I'm telling you anything.

1503
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:33,040
So it's definitely something like that is personalized to everyone's like character.

1504
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:34,040
100%.

1505
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:35,040
Yeah.

1506
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:40,040
And I think you definitely have to like put in the work on your end to make sure this is someone that you feel comfortable with.

1507
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:44,040
Because you're not going to get enough out of it if you guys don't like.

1508
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:54,040
So I think I was with that therapist for a couple months and then maybe maybe like, I don't know, five months into living in New York.

1509
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:59,040
I found a different therapist who is based in the city and she's amazing.

1510
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:00,040
She like is part of a practice.

1511
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:09,040
It's all young women and to pride themselves on being like for one a therapist and for two like a young woman that you can tell boy issues to.

1512
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:13,040
And like friend things because sometimes I feel embarrassed about that.

1513
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:20,040
So trivial when I'm talking to like an adult and that like my problems aren't real because it's just like friend groups that I have to learn anyway.

1514
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:25,040
But that style really like, like I really agreed with that.

1515
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:31,040
And yeah, therapy has been like the best thing I've ever done for myself.

1516
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:38,040
It's been so much fun and it takes so much work to I used to think that journaling was a form of like self therapy,

1517
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:39,040
which is kind of true.

1518
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:46,040
Like it's a really good thing, a really good exercise to do to become more self aware and like reflect on the things that you've done.

1519
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,040
But there's nothing like a therapist and yeah, having no person.

1520
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:51,040
Yeah, and it I don't know.

1521
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:56,040
It's not always like you can't just like show up to therapy and expect something to happen.

1522
01:15:56,040 --> 01:16:00,040
It takes about like 10 sessions for them to really understand you.

1523
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:12,040
And then it takes you talking about everything, all of yourself for them to be able to draw lines to your, your childhood, your past, your family members, whatever other major events in your life.

1524
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:21,040
But it also takes like, like you it's a really good way to like model an ideal relationship because with with no stakes.

1525
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:22,040
Yeah.

1526
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:27,040
So I remember my first therapy session with this new girl, maybe my second one.

1527
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:35,040
And she had this sort of style of saying like, Oh, well, you should be so proud of yourself for doing this or that.

1528
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,040
And I'm like, Hey, that doesn't work for me.

1529
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,040
Like, I don't need you to tell me the things I did well.

1530
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:43,040
Like, I don't really like I just tune out when you say it when you like praise me.

1531
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:44,040
I don't like that.

1532
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:46,040
And she was like, Okay, I won't do it again.

1533
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,040
And like those are things that are very useful.

1534
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:53,040
Like communication styles when there's zero stakes to be able to practice that with.

1535
01:16:53,040 --> 01:17:00,040
And a principle that she said is like, I need you to be honest with two people, yourself and your therapist.

1536
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:09,040
And that is so powerful, I think, because there's so many things that maybe you're in denial about and things that you feel ashamed to tell other people.

1537
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:14,040
And you're never going to get like the full benefit of therapy unless you're very honest with those two people.

1538
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:22,040
And in general, if there's something that you feel ashamed to tell your even your therapist, you got to take a look at that last night.

1539
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:32,040
Like if there's certain things like if you're dealing with something and you're like or you're acting upon something or thinking something and you're scared to tell your therapist,

1540
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:34,040
that's when you know like there's a line to be drawn.

1541
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:36,040
Yeah, 100%.

1542
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:37,040
I agree with that.

1543
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:38,040
I love therapy.

1544
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:39,040
I cannot say it enough.

1545
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:46,040
I was not the biggest fan at all before because I think like for you, you went into it like yourself.

1546
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:51,040
Like you, you kind of had that push where it was like, Okay, Jamie, you need you need this.

1547
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:57,040
But me, I was kind of like forced into it because like parents divorce and like, obviously, something was wrong with me.

1548
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,040
Well, not wrong with me, but I was in doing too well.

1549
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:11,040
And so I think it's my aunt, my mom's sister, who like kind of pushed it on my mom and then my mom pushed me and I was like, I'm not fucking telling a random stranger what I'm feeling like I'm fine.

1550
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:12,040
I love saying I'm fine.

1551
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:13,040
Like, I'm fine.

1552
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:14,040
Just not.

1553
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:15,040
I'm fine.

1554
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:16,040
It's okay.

1555
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:17,040
Like it's whatever.

1556
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:18,040
Like I'll deal with it on my own.

1557
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,040
It's so bad.

1558
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:21,040
Like it's whatever.

1559
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:25,040
But so that failed horribly.

1560
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:31,040
But then maybe like a couple months later, I started going back and it was the same woman.

1561
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:32,040
And I was like, you know what?

1562
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:33,040
I did not try.

1563
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:34,040
Like I did not.

1564
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:38,040
And mind you, I was like 13 1213.

1565
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:41,040
And I was like, okay, like I'm gonna, I'm gonna try.

1566
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:44,040
And then we started talking and whatever.

1567
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:49,040
Like he said, like she, she didn't even get to the divorce like before seven sessions.

1568
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:54,040
Like we talked about so many other different things like home life, relationships, whatever,

1569
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:59,040
before we actually got to the like big like life event that happened that I wanted to

1570
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:02,040
like actually deal with and get over.

1571
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,040
And then I moved to Miami.

1572
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:08,040
And then I was like, okay, I can't see this woman anymore.

1573
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:09,040
Like I'm sad.

1574
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:13,040
Like, but I moved to Miami for like six months because I fucking hated the United States.

1575
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:15,040
I was like, not doing this anymore.

1576
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:19,040
So I went back and then I started seeing her again, which was amazing.

1577
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:23,040
And I feel like that's when I got like one of my first boyfriend who ended up cheating

1578
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,040
on me, whatever.

1579
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:29,040
But thank God for her.

1580
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:30,040
So started seeing her again.

1581
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:35,040
And then when I came here, I kind of stopped seeing her because like I was in another

1582
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:39,040
relationship and the ex that we love so much.

1583
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,040
And like I was like, I don't need therapy.

1584
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:42,040
I'm so happy.

1585
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,040
And then that ended up like horribly.

1586
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:48,040
And so I found a therapist here in Boston, which I still see her.

1587
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:50,040
I love her so much.

1588
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:54,040
And I still see the therapist and Haiti for like other things like that.

1589
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,040
She's kind of like in my back pocket.

1590
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,040
Like when I feel like I need her, I text her.

1591
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:01,040
I call like I'm super comfortable with her.

1592
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:04,040
Like to that point where I can like just call her up, you know, and have like a five minute,

1593
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:07,040
five minute conversation, 10 minute conversation, you know.

1594
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:08,040
So I don't know.

1595
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:14,040
Like parents divorce was definitely the jumpstart for it, but so many other life events happen

1596
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:22,040
where I was like, okay, like it's good to keep going to have that one person that I can like really vent to like without any boundaries.

1597
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:27,040
Like I can just like word vomit and like she's going to help.

1598
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:36,040
That's such a nice thing to have because like as close as you may be with like other people in your life, they're never going to be able to truly help you because like I always say this.

1599
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:37,040
I'm like so close.

1600
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,040
My mom is like my sister.

1601
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:46,040
Like I tell her she knows everything about my life, but there's only so much she can do to help me like navigate those things.

1602
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,040
So I feel like it's really good to have that impartial person.

1603
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:51,040
And I feel like impartiality is a huge thing in therapy.

1604
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:52,040
Yeah, totally.

1605
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:53,040
Yeah.

1606
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,040
So I feel like that's please guys.

1607
01:20:55,040 --> 01:21:01,040
Everyone I think everyone needs therapy like maybe not to the same level as other people, but it's such an amazing thing.

1608
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:13,040
It's probably annoying to hear though people who go to therapy or like everyone needs to get a therapy, you know, but it's like you don't even have a problem to go to therapy.

1609
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:14,040
Exactly.

1610
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:22,040
And it's really cool if you go on like your own well, but it's also totally acceptable if someone else like puts you in that position.

1611
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:33,040
But I also had like kind of rules going into it of like, I don't want to be diagnosed with something and I don't want to come out of this thinking I have more problems than I thought, you know.

1612
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:34,040
Yeah.

1613
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:43,040
And to your point, Mel, they're having a therapist and someone that's like their sole purpose is kind of to help you and for you to like vent to them.

1614
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:54,040
It really makes all your relationships better, not just because you're becoming more wise for going to therapy, but because you don't have to use other people as an outlet, which is kind of what we were talking about at the beginning to

1615
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:55,040
Yeah.

1616
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:57,040
Of how it codependent relationships form.

1617
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:00,040
It makes your other relationships much better for that.

1618
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:01,040
So much better.

1619
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:12,040
You can tell them things you can tell them like insight of things that you've learned in therapy, but you don't have that expectation of them like fixing all your problems and solving everything for you, which is such a nice thing.

1620
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:15,040
Joe, I want to hear your thoughts as a new newcomer.

1621
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:16,040
Please chime in.

1622
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,040
I started therapy a couple weeks ago.

1623
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,040
Jamie's been pressing me on this for a really long time.

1624
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:26,040
It's like, it's something that I've been wanting to do, but I've just been so lazy on like actually acting on it.

1625
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:29,040
But I have been loving it.

1626
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:35,040
I started got I like, I locked myself in the room and I kick Melody out and every time I come out to tell her, the room's ready.

1627
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:39,040
I just feel like a new person like weight on a cloud.

1628
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:43,040
Yes, I'm like constantly smiling. I think I like jump to jump the dancer out.

1629
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:45,040
I'm like, I was so good.

1630
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,040
And it's like, what'd you talk about?

1631
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:48,040
I don't even know.

1632
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,040
It was just so good.

1633
01:22:50,040 --> 01:23:01,040
But something you were talking about was like journaling and how that's like kind of a form of like self therapy, which I agree with.

1634
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:10,040
And also something super interesting that I find myself doing sometimes when I'm journaling is like, I'm writing down things, but I'm like twisting my words.

1635
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:17,040
And I'll like, I'll stop, I'll pause and I'll think like, why am I like not being like 100% myself in this?

1636
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:19,040
Like nobody is reading this, but me.

1637
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:26,040
And it just makes me think that like, that's so interesting because like, maybe I'm not myself 100% of the time.

1638
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:34,040
I'm like, I'm not even be real on paper, like to myself, like, it just makes me think that like when I'm with people, maybe I'm ashamed to like say my actual thoughts.

1639
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:46,040
So like, it was just like a super interesting realization to me, which is like something that I have to be like conscious of when I am journaling, because it's like, it's only going to help me to write down like what I'm actually thinking.

1640
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:49,040
And like, when I do journal, it's like, I'll just start with a random thought.

1641
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:51,040
I won't even like know exactly what I want to say.

1642
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:56,040
But like over time, like when I'm writing, it's like, I'll just figure out all these things that I didn't even know existed.

1643
01:23:56,040 --> 01:24:04,040
You just get in these tangents and it's like, you can write however you want, you can say whatever you want, like nobody is reading this, hopefully.

1644
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:15,040
But yourself, if you even decide to come back and read this later, it's just like, it's really interesting though seeing that like, at least for me, like that I'm not completely honest all the time.

1645
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:23,040
And it just makes me think like how I am with other people then, but like what Jamie was saying, like being so honest with your therapist, because it's like, if you're not, then why are you even in this?

1646
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:24,040
You're not going to get the proper help.

1647
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,040
You're not going to like, you're going to say stories.

1648
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:34,040
And if you twist them even the slightest, then like, they're not going to have a proper understanding of like what's going on and they're going to help you in a different direction.

1649
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:39,040
Like if you are actually so honest and like, they are so useful.

1650
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:47,040
And like it's nice like not having, yeah, also like being able to put that in a separate bucket, like all those problems.

1651
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:48,040
Exactly.

1652
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,040
That's such a good point.

1653
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:59,040
And like she's just made me realize like so many things that I just never would have put together on my own, which like I'll call Jamie after my like therapy session and I'll tell her something.

1654
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,040
And even Jamie is like, wait, what?

1655
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:02,040
I'm like, oh my God.

1656
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:10,040
It's like, it's such a, it's like the most obvious things too, and it's like, how could I have not seen that? But like sometimes it's so hard because you have so much else going on in your mind.

1657
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:16,040
But like when they're just like an unbiased like open person, then like they're going to come to these conclusions for you.

1658
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:17,040
Yeah.

1659
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:21,040
I don't know. I just think I think it's honestly like so amazing.

1660
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:22,040
I'm so excited.

1661
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:23,040
It is amazing.

1662
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:33,040
And it's like, it's kind of hard to start off with because like there's so much that you feel the need to tell them right away because it's like, I want her to know all these things about me so that like she can actually understand these current problems.

1663
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:44,040
But like, they don't even really need to know that like sure it's going to be helpful in a few weeks when she does like know me a little bit better because like, I really just started like, I started really recently.

1664
01:25:44,040 --> 01:25:50,040
But it's so interesting like even the meta stuff that goes on in the therapist head that you don't hear too.

1665
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:59,040
Yeah. Because like even what how you choose to describe the people in your life is information for their not just what that person is like, but how you're presenting them.

1666
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:00,040
Yeah.

1667
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:01,040
How you present yourself.

1668
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:07,040
And that goes into journaling, which in my first podcast episode that I did that is unreleased.

1669
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:08,040
I think jealous.

1670
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:09,040
I was jealous to it.

1671
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:11,040
I'm maybe my family.

1672
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:14,040
I talked about journaling because I think it's so important.

1673
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:25,040
This is pre therapy and it's such a good that you can provide to yourself and the act there's something about the act of writing on a piece of paper.

1674
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:29,040
That's very therapeutic, but that channels like some kind of stream of consciousness.

1675
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:30,040
Yeah.

1676
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:38,040
That doesn't happen on a screen because what happens when you're typing or texting or like even if you do it on your notes app, you're constantly like reevaluating everything that you write.

1677
01:26:38,040 --> 01:26:40,040
The leading editing.

1678
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:41,040
Yeah.

1679
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:49,040
Because that's how we are when we interact with technology is like somehow that like idea that an external person or force is going to see it.

1680
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:52,040
It's just that's the way it's modeled when we interact with technology.

1681
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:54,040
So it's just put it on piece of paper.

1682
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:58,040
And as Joe was saying, there's so many things you can look back on.

1683
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:06,040
And even in the process of writing, sometimes I've had moments where I'm like, holy shit, I'm a genius for saying this right now.

1684
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:09,040
And I look back like she was so smart.

1685
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:10,040
Yeah.

1686
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:19,040
It's such a like for one, it's good to like even just act like even if you don't read it back, but for two as like a time capsule piece, because I'm a history major.

1687
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:21,040
And this is very important.

1688
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:26,040
And to see the thoughts that you had when you were younger, like I have journals going back to middle school.

1689
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:27,040
Oh my God, me too.

1690
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:28,040
Like the little lock ones.

1691
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:31,040
I have boxes of them under my bed and I can't wait to read them.

1692
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:32,040
It's so fun.

1693
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,040
I would write like Dear Future Self.

1694
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:36,040
I would just so corny.

1695
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:42,040
But it's so cool to look back on and like remember all the thoughts and it's it's a good exercise for even like your memory.

1696
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:59,040
Like there's so many good things about journaling that you can do and like all the greats have journaled all the great like writers and philosophers going back have all journaled and kept like a piece of their own history, which you know, when we all get rich and famous, that's going to be very valuable.

1697
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:01,040
That's going to be in our museum one day.

1698
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:02,040
I agree with that.

1699
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:15,040
And I was actually thinking about that the other day because I kind of took a journaling hiatus because I think I was using it in the wrong way because when I look at my journals from like the last two years of high school, it's all negative things.

1700
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:16,040
All I wasn't using it.

1701
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:17,040
I've done that before.

1702
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:23,040
It wasn't like an outlet to like, I feel like at the time I was thinking it was an outlet.

1703
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:25,040
Okay, let me get these negative thoughts out.

1704
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:32,040
But it's like, oh my God, you were miserable like what the hell was possibly going on in your life for you to be having those thoughts.

1705
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:36,040
Like I have one like here with me from my junior year of high school.

1706
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:42,040
And I read it the other day because I restarted journaling because there's a ton of pages like blank pages left.

1707
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:44,040
So I was like, okay, let me use this up whatever.

1708
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:54,040
So I was reading back and I was like, oh my like this made me so sad, but it's so nice to see like how far I've come kind of, you know, it's exactly.

1709
01:28:54,040 --> 01:29:01,040
It's such a nice thing to have and look back on and I was actually like, I'm still in my height is because like I need to like figure out.

1710
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:06,040
Obviously there's no right way of journaling, but like I need to like make time to do that.

1711
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:17,040
But I was watching like I recently restarted Grey's Anatomy and like I'm at the point where like the main character like her mom had Alzheimer's and like she was like she like always had.

1712
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:29,040
Like boxes upon boxes of like her medical journals and like personal journals and whatever and the daughter was like reading all of these things and like making connections as to how like why she's the way she is as an adult.

1713
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:34,040
Like how that pertains to like her childhood and like all these things and like us saying this right now.

1714
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,040
It's like it's a crazy thing.

1715
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:39,040
I love journaling.

1716
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:41,040
I think it's such a nice thing.

1717
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,040
Really, really cool for so many reasons.

1718
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:45,040
I have a question for both of you.

1719
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,040
It's going back to the therapy.

1720
01:29:47,040 --> 01:30:00,040
I just like sometimes when I'm talking to my therapist, I'm thinking like this is so frustrating because she doesn't know the people that I'm talking about like all she knows is what I'm telling her which like to me is like the whole hearted truth.

1721
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:11,040
But like what if I'm like misunderstanding things like do you think in turn like that could make you really lost because like they're giving you advice based off of the things that you're saying.

1722
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:20,040
No, because I think that the therapist keeps that in mind and like good therapy keeps all human biases in mind.

1723
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,040
Yeah, I don't know.

1724
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:29,040
I feel like I agree with Jamie like I don't think it's use their advice because like to you that is your truth.

1725
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:36,040
And ultimately the person they're trying to help is you and so like they're navigating like how to help you through like the people in your life.

1726
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:41,040
The way you see things the way you experience things and like the way you explain that to her is your truth.

1727
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:46,040
So like, you know, I don't and also like obviously she does keep those things in mind.

1728
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:48,040
So I don't know.

1729
01:30:48,040 --> 01:31:01,040
And then do you also I have like a really good friend at home and I've been talking to him a lot and like for the past half year I've been like wanting him to enter therapy and like he's tried it but he hasn't really like loved it.

1730
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:08,040
Do you think that there's like a point in time where like, like therapy will only work if you actually want to get help?

1731
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:11,040
Do you think otherwise it's like, it's no use.

1732
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:12,040
Yeah, 100%.

1733
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:29,040
Yeah, I feel like at a certain age, like when you reach that full autonomy over yourself, there comes a point where you have to decide like nothing anyone will say like had my parents gone divorced like the age I'm at right now and then someone was pushing therapy on me I would be like,

1734
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:36,040
I'm only doing it if I want to like if I feel the need to like myself I'm not going to listen to anyone else.

1735
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:41,040
Yeah, as I was saying earlier it's like a two way street, meaning that it's a relationship.

1736
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:50,040
So like if you're not putting in the work on your own but also like in like facing your therapist it's not going to there's going to be no benefit to it.

1737
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:54,040
Like it'll be helpful and maybe they'll learn to love it or like learn to embrace it.

1738
01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:58,040
But it requires both parties to do their job.

1739
01:31:58,040 --> 01:31:59,040
Yeah, I agree with that.

1740
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:08,040
So like if someone is pushing you like too much to go for it then you go into it with the intention of like this is something I have to do like it's an obligation.

1741
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:12,040
It's not something I genuinely want to do to like better myself.

1742
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:14,040
Yeah, yeah.

1743
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:17,040
Oh my god, this episode is so long guys.

1744
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:20,040
This is like almost two hours.

1745
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:21,040
What?

1746
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:25,040
Yeah, I feel like there is there's so much.

1747
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:35,040
I feel like there's so much more we can address but for the sake of my maybe a part two next time or if we come to New York.

1748
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:36,040
So.

1749
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:46,040
Ponder, but I don't know I think there's just so much more we can address like I don't obviously it's anything and everything I feel like we addressed a lot for sure.

1750
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:56,040
Yeah, and we definitely some good conversations stemmed from my main points which I'm so pumped about I can't wait to listen to this back we can listen to it tonight.

1751
01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:58,040
Listening to your podcast.

1752
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:00,040
We always listen when she's done.

1753
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:08,040
Before I hated doing that but now that I'm kind of I hate hearing my voice but I kind of have to for what I'm doing.

1754
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:14,040
I have I had to get used to it but now I love listening to them back like me and Joe every time I'm done recording.

1755
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:19,040
I'm like do you want to listen to them she just leaves me in the room.

1756
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:24,040
So yeah, I don't know guys I think that's all we have for you today.

1757
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:26,040
I'm so happy I could do this.

1758
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:27,040
Don't even mention it.

1759
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:28,040
I'm so happy.

1760
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:30,040
I'm like I'm like a giddy schoolgirl.

1761
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:31,040
I'm so excited.

1762
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:34,040
Like I thank you so much for giving me your time.

1763
01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:37,040
You're on vacation and you came on here which is so amazing.

1764
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:40,040
Thank you Joe for orchestrating this.

1765
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:44,040
It's so weird though.

1766
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:48,040
It feels like I've known you for a while actually.

1767
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:50,040
I don't feel like it's weird.

1768
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:54,040
I get where Joe's coming from though like two worlds colliding for sure.

1769
01:33:54,040 --> 01:34:00,040
Yeah, but I don't know any last piece of advice you guys have for the more of male listeners.

1770
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:06,040
Like over anything not specific.

1771
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:09,040
Like general.

1772
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,040
Yeah, be honest yourself.

1773
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:14,040
I feel like is a really good thing to take away from this.

1774
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,040
Every Joe's honest.

1775
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:18,040
It's my biggest.

1776
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:19,040
That's like your first tattoo.

1777
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:20,040
You get it right here.

1778
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:21,040
Honesty.

1779
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:23,040
A tramp stamp.

1780
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:27,040
Yeah, I think being honest with yourself is huge.

1781
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:28,040
Keep a journal.

1782
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:30,040
Keep your time capsule.

1783
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:38,040
And yeah, also I didn't get to say my slogan but for the single people out there being single is being stable.

1784
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:40,040
I literally quoted you.

1785
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:42,040
You're single until you're stable.

1786
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:44,040
No, that wasn't it.

1787
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,040
Oopsies.

1788
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:48,040
No, you're single because you're stable.

1789
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:50,040
Oh, you're single because you're...

1790
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:52,040
Sorry, I don't know.

1791
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,040
I was like, okay.

1792
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:56,040
I had the words.

1793
01:34:56,040 --> 01:34:57,040
Not the right form.

1794
01:34:57,040 --> 01:35:02,040
You can give everything to yourself and it is a beautiful thing.

1795
01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:03,040
I agree.

1796
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:04,040
That's the track I'm on.

1797
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:06,040
I'm trying to understand the stability.

1798
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:08,040
Everyone picked their era.

1799
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:09,040
Joe's in her.

1800
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:10,040
Yes, guys.

1801
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:12,040
And switch it up sometimes.

1802
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:14,040
You don't have to be in an era for too long.

1803
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:16,040
You don't have to conquer that era and then find a new one.

1804
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:17,040
Exactly.

1805
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:20,040
I was in my bear and my bang's era and now I'm not.

1806
01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:22,040
So it doesn't have to be that serious.

1807
01:35:22,040 --> 01:35:23,040
My Jera's like...

1808
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:26,040
That's the big one but there are so many sub-eras.

1809
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:28,040
Yeah, there's so many sub-eras.

1810
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:30,040
My Rera.

1811
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,040
You're reading the Rera.

1812
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:34,040
Mel, what's your era?

1813
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:35,040
I don't know.

1814
01:35:35,040 --> 01:35:36,040
Has it changed?

1815
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:37,040
What was it before?

1816
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:38,040
Ask every guess.

1817
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:40,040
Oh my God, I'm going to ask them.

1818
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:42,040
Wait, that's a really good thing.

1819
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:47,040
I think after I listen to your guys' podcast on the page, I like Coindy Your Era.

1820
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:48,040
What is it?

1821
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:50,040
Which is your Fera, your fearless era.

1822
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:51,040
I like that.

1823
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,040
I like that a lot.

1824
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:54,040
Was that it?

1825
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:55,040
Yeah.

1826
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:56,040
Oh, okay.

1827
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:57,040
I like that.

1828
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:58,040
Wait.

1829
01:35:58,040 --> 01:35:59,040
I do too.

1830
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:00,040
You're being honest.

1831
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:01,040
You're being vulnerable with this podcast.

1832
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:02,040
It's your fearless era.

1833
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:03,040
Thank God for that.

1834
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:05,040
Okay, Jamie.

1835
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:07,040
Oh, but it's my era?

1836
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,040
That's a good question.

1837
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:12,040
Currently Rera, relationship era.

1838
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:13,040
That's boring.

1839
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:14,040
That is boring.

1840
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,040
I think I'm in...

1841
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:21,040
Maybe you might...

1842
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:22,040
Tara.

1843
01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:23,040
Tara.

1844
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:24,040
Tr-tr-trusting.

1845
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:28,040
That's a good one.

1846
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:30,040
I am in my tr-my trara.

1847
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:32,040
I don't know anymore.

1848
01:36:32,040 --> 01:36:35,040
Joe, are you sticking with Jera?

1849
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:38,040
Until I find something better.

1850
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:41,040
Actually, right now I'm in my barra, my boss-in-era.

1851
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:42,040
Okay, that's a really good one.

1852
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:44,040
The best era to be in.

1853
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:45,040
So true.

1854
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:46,040
Okay.

1855
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:50,040
Well, guys, when I post this, please comment below on my Instagram what area you're in.

1856
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:52,040
I would love to hear.

1857
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:54,040
And now I'm going to ask everyone.

1858
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,040
That's such a nice thing.

1859
01:36:56,040 --> 01:37:03,040
But anyways, guys, thank you so much for tuning into today's episode of More of Mel.

1860
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:04,040
And I'll see you next time.

1861
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:05,040
I love you.

1862
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:06,040
Bye.

1863
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:27,040
Bye.