5 and 3, 2, 1.
All right, Jackson Callum is first class business here
and I'm so excited to be with one of my best friends.
So very honored to be here.
Thank you.
Man, it is my honor to be on Jackson's actual podcast.
Guys, we're going to enjoy our Friday night.
You're going to go out and you're going to have some fun.
You know, you're going to stay in and appreciate your family.
But the last thing you're going to think about, most likely,
is where you're going to get your drink of water.
And I'm celebrating.
I'm so excited about this.
So the water wells, the water project that we've been supporting
has been fully funded.
And it's thanks to all sorts of people who contributed,
people who are just like you, whether it's donating a dollar
or donating 100 or 1000.
Thanks so much for your time and attention
and see how you can possibly help provide clean waters to others as well.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
I'm so stoked to be here with you, Jackson.
I mean, this has been a while coming now and it feels like perfect alignment for it to happen.
So I'm glad to be here.
Hey, everybody, how you doing?
It is awesome.
So if you're listening to this and you have any types of questions regarding sales, relationships, influence,
that's really what it's about.
It's influence and leveraging that influence with integrity.
Then by all means, drop the questions in the queue that you have.
Take advantage of this opportunity and don't ever hesitate to connect with Dean or myself on LinkedIn, Facebook,
wherever you find us online.
Okay.
Now, Dean, let's talk about, I want from your perspective, who is Dean Forbes?
Dean Forbes is a server's heart leader.
I approach every day with like an impact first mindset.
And I always think about the impact I'm going to have on people first.
And a lot of times it's like this whole cliche thing, right?
But honestly, I wouldn't enjoy my life or my kids or anything as much if I didn't know or believe that every day I get up,
I'm thinking, you know, service before sales, impact before income, people before profit.
And I'm thinking those things, I have that compass, then, you know, I wouldn't be who I am today.
And I have a lot of mentors to thank.
My father is the first of which I've ever had.
And other mentors who helped steer me to the right path along the way.
And even for the times when I fell down and make mistakes, I've known who I am and who I could become for a long time.
And so I can, I continue to pursue that potential within myself.
So that's who Dean Forbes is in a nutshell, you know, that's awesome, man.
I'm going to ask you about something specific there. You talked about your father being a mentor.
Yeah, there's a there's a lot of us out there who don't have that, who didn't have that.
Right. And I'm one of those.
You know, I learned a lot of things I needed to not do in my relationship there.
But I also did learn some good things, some really important things there.
But from your perspective, what is always interesting and fascinating to me is like, what did that, what did that do for you?
What are some specific benefits that that came from that relationship?
Because every father-son relationship is different.
But I know that I know that you often talk about how influential your dad was.
What does that look like?
So the first thing I'll say is my father taught me how to be a man, but a human man, meaning treat people right all the time.
You know, always look out for the best interests of other people, whether in your circle or outside that basically do the right thing, even when nobody's looking.
The other thing that my father taught me was not not just responsibility, but accountability, like owning your stuff, stepping up to the plate when you've done something wrong, you've earned in some kind of a way.
And he had a great way to do that.
My dad was never the kind of guy as a father who would say to you, you can't do this and you can't do that.
He'd be a type of person.
I said, so if you choose to do that, what do you think will happen down the road?
If you did, you know, or you would say things like, well, then.
Because we're Jamaican.
So you say, then you can do whatever you want.
You just can't do that in my house.
So it would be like, you know, so I mean, if you choose to do this thing, where will you live?
So he would put things like that to us all the time where we got to make a choice about my favorite one.
He said, Dean, so tell me something.
Is this the kind of man that you want to be?
And that had a certain sting to it to make you think a little bit more deeply about what you're about to do or what you were thinking, how you're about to approach a situation.
And so I think my father instilled in me integrity, just a level of accountability that I guess to me, I've never saw.
I've never seen that in any person other than my father so much so, except my brother, actually, to be honest with you.
You got a double, you got a double.
I got a double. So I, I strive, I strive every day.
Let's put it this way.
I don't think I compare myself to a lot of people in the world at all, but I do compare how I am as a man to my dad and to my brother 100%.
I can't deny it.
That's awesome.
Well, it's great to have benchmarks.
There are healthy comparisons that exist.
I, I try to emulate LeBron James when I make a layup.
That's important. So there's a, there's a healthy comparison and a world full of toxicity and divide and like, no, don't, don't judge me.
No, there's, there's some definite value to that in order for you guys to be able to reach out to him.
We're going to continue to dig into the gold mine that Dean has available so you can get some, some idea of how depth, how the, how far the depth goes.
So number one, what I know about you is that your sales techniques are based on relationships and I know that because I've experienced that with you.
Right.
So about building stronger relationships, but I also know you have an amazing value in terms of training sales managers, knowing how to build sales management up and also knowing how to train sales and service professionals both right, whether that's customer service and support, or that's high ticket sales.
I've seen the broad array of capabilities that you have and your ability to articulate your training. So I'm going to get to this point.
If you're an entrepreneur and you're listening to this, I'm going to ask Dean the golden question that all of you would want to ask or all of you HR representatives want to ask Dean.
How do you as an entrepreneur, if I were to hire you, how do we as business owners need to go about hiring the right sales trainer.
Thank you for that question, Jackson, because I think this is a really important question number one, and I think number two, too many mistakes are made in this arena.
So the first thing I would tell you saying that people aren't perfect at sales and then kind of manipulative in the sales environment and maybe don't look out for the customer's best interest.
Are you alluding to that a little bit.
I'm alluding to that a little bit for sure. And I'm also alluding to what I call, well not what I call it, but it's confirmation bias where the first thing I tell entrepreneurs is don't lock yourself into looking for someone to train your team that is in your industry.
Because they have blinders on they can't see the blind spots, because they have the same ones that you have. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you have to vet them very, very carefully before you actually choose someone that's in your industry that lives in there.
And in the whole nine yards when it comes to sales training, that's the first thing.
The second thing is that you need to find a sales trainer who is going to be asking you a lot of questions about you, your core values, your team, your highs, your lows, and most importantly, what are your standards.
What are your benchmarks for progress. What are your benchmarks of predictability. What are your benchmarks to actually grow your people, not for you to make profit and sales. That's just an effect of you understanding what your core values are what your standards are what your highs and your lows are, and what is your, what's your vision for growing your sales team, the people that actually represent your brand.
If you don't have a sales trainer that is asking these types of questions, I would absolutely run in the other direction is on question about it. Absolutely.
Well, and a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, especially the beginning stages are going to say, you know, like, well, wait a second, you know, isn't that your job as a sales trainer to to provide and to figure out.
100% and guess what the good news is, if you're not asking the right questions, there's no shot you're going to be able to connect with that organization in a genuine and authentic way.
The best way to get the best information and best nuggets to leave people forward is to understand who they truly are.
Like, what are you about, because I look, I have a framework that I train with, I could step on any stage, go into any room, train this framework, and it would work.
But it would never be supremely effective if I didn't understand who my audience is. So it is my job and guess what, it's also my responsibility to find out these things for I ever to myself have the audacity that I could train your people.
So I'm not willing to step into that arena in the MMA ring that they walk into every day and really kind of try to sit in that soup. And the only way I can do that is by asking you to write questions. That's the only way.
Absolutely. So the person who's interviewing, you know, you could be working with an HR director that's interviewing you could be working with a sales manager who's interviewing to hire you.
And of course, depending on the size of the organization, you've got C level execs or you've got founders. Let's just dive even deeper. I mean, on this on this topic, because it is the most overlooked topic, in my opinion, is how do you bring on the right team members and the right leaders to lead those team
members to win you. You're absolutely right. Every entrepreneur is different in their approach. They may all be entrepreneurs, right? They may all be a business owners, but they all think so so differently, which is why you you can end up with a mixed bag of sales approaches, even with good or great
sales people. So go ahead and expand on that.
Yeah, so I'll expand on that with a quick story if you'll indulge me a little bit. When I worked for L'Oreal for the Redken team and I was first dubbed the director of sales for division 100.
We, we had a team of about 2022 people.
And we built such a culture on that team that I never had to really hire or fire anyone. They did it for themselves because the team, the team wouldn't tolerate certain people on the team, if they wouldn't live by the standards or strive to live up to those standards.
And so my real point here is that the reason people end up with a mixed bag is because they don't have standards that they actually live and die by, and it's not instituted from the top down.
My mentor is one of my mentors say Dean the fish stinks from the head down.
Every person on that team's feet are held to the same fire and the leaders so much so that they have to hold their feet to the fire without so without two souls bare feet to the fire, because that burn needs to burn from the top all the way down and that's how you instituted
throughout the entire organization. And so when you're going to engage or work with a team that is looking to grow their sales, you have to find out what is your standard or your culture around building impact or transformation into the lives of those you call the serve.
What does that look like to you. Right, because I have to be able to align my own poor values with that thing. And quite frankly, you know what, I can sometimes Jackson sometimes you have to be okay walking away from a city.
You're not going to be okay walking away from a situation that you're not meant for like you know what, I appreciate what you guys are doing but this is not where I need to walk right now.
I love that I'm going to I'm going to add a little visual because we're super aligned on that concept Dean. And this is this is one of the posters we have a first class business that helps us understand that that concept.
You mentioned having the same standards right we make sure that in our hiring process, right that we build our team based on the foundation of love, and then the four virtues of patients persistence consistency and reliability.
And it gives us a chance to really make sure that everybody is coming into this culture is is dedicated to figuring out are they are they abiding by those virtues, you know as they go about their work and represent our brand.
And ultimately that leads us to a dedicated unison to be able to hold each other accountable to those standards.
So, if the entrepreneur doesn't have those types of standards in place, you know and you see that as a as a potential sales trainer for them what do you do.
Literally, I put the so at this point, I've already made the decision that I'm going to walk away. And so before I walk away though, I offer one opportunity to see if we can get a line based on what I'm looking at in front of me let's say I believe that there's great potential here.
Okay, I will put it on the table. Hey guys, you know what, I see great potential here, and I'm sure that you guys have ways to go progress to make and things to do that are going to be great.
However, there's a gap here between our core values and I want to address that right now if I may, and I ask permission to do it. And then I'll just say hey look, I'm the kind of guy that to pre-mobiles and people before profit service before sales and impact before income that those are the
Epic Academy quite frankly that's like your pillars that you just showed. That's exactly what they are. And I'll say so what that means is, and then I'll go into what they what each mean and I say is that something that you're willing to work towards if I'm going to be your
sales that's something you're willing to strive for. And they could either say yes or no right now moment and I'm okay with either one, but it's going to be on the table guaranteed.
Awesome. Okay. And again, I'm just I'm so curious about the dynamics I've done some sales trainings and I mean I've got my butt kicked. Sometimes in that process of trying to align with team members and cultures and you got to have a lot of patients.
And sometimes with those processes especially the bigger the sales team is because I'm going to monologue a little bit but there's there's different types of cells. Yeah, right you've got customer support, which is usually either in like enhancing the happiness or fixing the angry.
That's somebody who's already bought maybe trying to upsell or downsell or prevent cancellation. You've got complex cells what's requires talking to three or four different entities at once and selling multimillion dollar products or maybe even six figure
You got these high ticket cells that are super common right now and a lot of people think they're high ticket sales people in our want to be and there's a lot. There's just so much to learn if you're if you're brand new to getting into that space. And then you got door to door cells right and there's there's
different tactics involved there's different company cultures that exist in that the bigger point I'm getting at is if I'm a small business owner or business owner of any level and I again I'm once again looking to hire bringing a sales trainer. Feel free to focus on any one of those
dynamics Dean but how does that shift the nature of the interview and the conversation. So that as a business owner again I asked the right questions and become self aware enough of the struggles we have internally that may prevent you from being a great trainer.
Yeah so so is your question more about how do I address that type of elephant in the room that been on the industry. Yeah so I got 20 cells your apps of some type right. And that's what you know in house I'm going to pretend everybody's perfect and everybody's doing a great job and we love our team and
you know but there's there's always skeletons in the closet usually more skeletons and there are close so yeah what.
So there are two things to this one one thing about this is always constant so you're always looking for a thread that says you guys can can be woven together you're not woven together yet but there's a thread there that they have in their company that says you can be
woven together that that's the potential that you see right. And so once you see that then when it comes to weeding out that elephant. I could ask a ton of questions all nine yards and like you said you know buyers and liars right people are going to lie to you and tell you that
you're not woven together that's perfect right buyers are like that almost everyone of my buyers have been liars in some way shape or form but here's the thing. There are three types of questions that you can't escape from in any way shape or form and then I if you lie or not.
And so there's a question that's called a prognosis question and the prognosis question says hey listen if you did allow this to go on now that we are not that we've established and agree that this is a problem if you allowed it to go on how would that impact your
business and your people in the next 3060 90 days walk me through what that would look like if you didn't fix this thing.
And you know you will dig a little deeper to make sure you root it out all the emotions about it so.
And if you did allow it to go on checked.
What would be the eventual consequence of all that. So the second part is a consequence question or consequence questions.
Once again I'll go ahead sorry keep going I want to hear the second part. So the second part is consequence questions so you want the person for themselves to tell you or describe for you. What's going to happen. Are you going to lose your wife.
Are you going to lose your business. Are your kids going to hate you. Are you going to like lose your job. Are you not going to be able to provide for your family if you didn't get this insurance right now and something happens to you are your kids going to be taking care all these things will come out in the consequence
portion of this. Okay. And then the third piece of it is commitment questions.
And the commitment questions come into full so first of all is that something you can live with once they've described the prognosis told you what the consequences are.
Is that something you're okay with.
And in most cases the answer is just absolutely not. And then I asked him so what do you think we what do you think you ought to do about this. And then you go into the commitment questions now why am I saying that.
At the end of all that.
Here's the truth.
Your prospect or whatever it is you're talking to is going to know one thing very clearly.
If they lie. If they do anything in this particular moment what tell the truth all the results we achieve is on them. They bear the accountability and responsibility for that no matter what.
And what we just talked about will be in kept or anchored by exactly that.
And that's how you read that out.
Okay, awesome.
I got a big question that comes along with this topic right it. It sounds like right it can easily be perceived as you know these are manipulation tactics right you know you're you're you're messing with people's minds.
I mean I'm getting another psychology by doing so so my my bias question leading the witness question I like to be very open to help people understand that yes we do use frameworks for for reason but Dean let's talk about that. Are you manipulating your prospective business owner by asking these questions or why is the purpose what is the reason for digging deep like this and you know making people be so vulnerable.
So I'm glad you're asking that question.
And you know it's one of the reasons why I love what I do so much because I recognize that there's a negative statement that comes along with like being in sales sales trainer.
All these things but here's the truth intent is everything you know, being able to go to enter the hearts and minds of people in this way comes with a great responsibility. So yes, all of sales really is like psychological.
But here's the kicker. If I have a match in my hand. I could use that to burn down this house I'm sitting in right now with everyone in it, or I can use it to light the way when the lights go out I could light a candle and everybody has light and nobody's sitting in the dark by themselves.
That's called ethics psychological and ethical selling, putting the humanity back into the selling process because humans are what's important.
So at the end of the day, it's going to be all about intent. So the answer is no, I'm not manipulating people I'm allowing people to extrapolate for themselves from their own hearts and their own minds.
What's really important to them. And at the end of the day, at the end of the day, when it comes to guidance mentors parents teachers, you name all the leaders that have all the leadership titles.
That's their job. They're they have they have a responsibility to make sure they're always acting in the best interest of the people they're called to serve.
And that only comes down to your intent. If you intend to do harm, you could use any kind of knowledge. Doesn't matter what it was meant for.
And you can use it to do harm because you know how to wield that sword. So at the end of the day, it's about who is holding the sword and who you allow to hold the sword.
And by the way, that will be deciphered and weeded out in the moments to come because we'll scan hide for very long in sheep's clothing.
You know, eventually they're going to eat that chicken. They're not going to resist that. You know, so that is my answer to that question right there.
You can use that, you know, it's it's just I love it.
Amazing. But yeah, well, it's authentic. You know, and that's that's the key, right? It's, you know, it unfortunately as business owners, you have to be able to use it.
You have to be able to have the awareness that, yes, some people will use these resources to take advantage of you, while other people use the exact same resource to help you.
So if your reaction, if your reactionary and you follow your primal instinct to protect and defend and to be scared of the value that comes from the resource, you will push away both those who are hurting you and those who can help you.
Right. And that's what I see happening all over the market. People are so scared of each other right now that they don't want to have conversations about things they can't associate with, you know, or can't feel.
But again, that's where that's where talking to Dean and getting the chance to understand, you know, these principles that he teaches and getting trained by him on how to how to overcome those realities.
If you're facing that, if you're one of those people who gets instantly offended, you know, or who gets offended quickly, or finds yourself reacting, even just the smallest reaction to a different political view, or a different point of religious view, you know, or sexual preference, whatever it is,
it's worth having a great conversation with Dean to figure out, how do I, how do I not become so vulnerable to the effects of those alternative viewpoints. So let's move into the next piece here.
I wanted to ask you about debating this subject. I know that what you do for cells is based on universal principles, and you call it timeless selling, which I love.
So what's the difference between the modern cells techniques, which are many, and there are eras of that that are still practiced to this day, nobody has all the information for today and today's world, some of us live in the past.
Right. So what's the difference between modern cells techniques that are common and timeless selling. Let's just expand on that at large.
Yeah, so I'm going to say something right now that's going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I love those. Those are my favorite.
So the cheers of truth.
The modern sales techniques, the one from 100 years ago, and up until now that are still being taught and use actually are quite destructive, destructive.
Timeless selling is actually continuously instructive. And I'll put some context on that.
It's destructive because most of the outdated high pressure, even the consultative sort of like manipulative techniques, and I used to learn these in the beginning.
They're destructive because they create low trust environments. It's what we're fighting right now, that low trust skeptic buyer who has all this information at their fingertips and all of a sudden everything's a scam because people keep coming to me with this scammy stuff.
It's, it's, it's the instructive part with timeless selling is this, if you are a student of how the human behaves in things, you will never ever run out of resources to serve.
Because the person that has the most information about the opportunities to serve them at the highest level of excellence is the prospect you're talking to. Think about that for a second.
Who knows more about what you want than you. The fact that you don't know how to extract that from yourself in one sentence. That's not your fault. Who taught you how to do that.
But if somebody knows how to get into that space, your heart centered space, and then open up your mind. So you can actually think and imagine, oh my God.
God forbid I get somebody to imagine themselves in their own heroic story that leads to a transformation. Come on.
So that's why it's timeless. Because I mean, you look at the hierarchy of needs to be understood to be heard to be have some level of significance in your life.
Right. When you look at those things, how could you not leverage that to serve people.
Love it. I love it. Absolutely.
Yeah, I can leverage a book. In a lot of ways, I can leverage a book to read and get the value. I can also throw it at somebody.
So you want to leverage the resource for the appropriate action. And as you leverage those to bring goodness to others, it's kind of impossible not to have goodness come back from that in some way, shape, or form.
Depending on your beliefs and association with universal laws, of course, God and things like that. So that's awesome. And I love that.
So some of the modern self techniques that are used, let's talk about and expose some of these tactics or I think even more importantly, oftentimes it's not necessarily the tactic, the blatant tactic is easy to recognize, right?
By almost anybody. But what is a way that people sometimes use maybe these timeless principles for selfish gains? Or use so in a way to manipulate others? What are some examples of that?
I'm happy to come up with some too, not to put you on the spot.
Yeah, no, no. I appreciate what I'm gonna say. And I'll take a step back to really think about, because look, I have pet peeves about some of these when I see them, right?
I have one. I have one. Okay, go first to me.
No, go first. Go first. I'll be here yours.
Awesome. The tactic of the things that are good for you are outside of your comfort zone. Right. That is a true statement in my opinion.
It is.
It's certainly true. An opinion. Again, those are interesting words, right? But, you know, I see a lot of sales representatives, they get to the end of a close and they did not follow the rules properly to understand if this person is truly pre qualified and if what's going to go good for this, if this product
solution is going to be good for them, the salesperson is really at the end of the day desperate to close. Right. They have their own need that they're focused on. They want to move this forward. Yes, they have good intentions, but they leverage this tactic to help people feel an internal pressure of, well, great.
If I don't move forward on this, maybe I'm not moving out of my comfort zone. And what I add to that, when I talk to people about it is I wear this rubber band, not for grace sake. I wear it because I like to use this example when I talk to people, which is, listen, what happens if you stretch this rubber band too far?
If I pull really hard and stretch it, what's going to happen to the rubber band?
Yeah, it's going to snap back and hit you right on your hand.
What if I keep stretching it?
It's going to break at some point.
It's going to break. So if I stretch you financially, if somebody manipulates you into stretching yourself financially beyond your comfort zone, but beyond your threshold, you are not making a healthy choice. You're being manipulated into a toxic decision that is ultimately going to hurt you and put you in a position of where you're
powerless, where you're desperate and you're returning to your primal nature of survival instincts and ultimately you're going to experience some trauma. So yes, we should stretch ourselves. No, we should not stretch ourselves beyond the point of breaking.
That's one of those tactics, if you will. I see people leveraging and using a lot in today's sales techniques because it's been used so often that now people are just like, you know what, let me just use this to force the close, if you will.
So that's one example. What do you got, Dean?
Here's my biggest pet peeve with all of this right here.
When you start a sales conversation, you tell the person, you know what, we're going to see if we're going to have a conversation and see if we can help you and if we can't, right, we're going to direct you some resources that we know can help you better.
They get to the end and realize that the person isn't actually a good fit, but they're ready to pay. And so they choose the money over the people. This is what I this is my people of a profit.
They choose to take the money and then behind the scenes are flailing at trying to fulfill what they said they could do, which comes out, you know, half, you know what, and the person doesn't actually get what they want.
Number one, they feel less fulfilled than before they got into the relationship. Here's the worst part. The person in that situation that made that sale does not accept the accountability that they screwed up that they should not have taken this person on and what they do is they blame the prospect.
I hate them. I do not stand for that at all. You just stand by your word. Direct the person to another resource is all you know what, say you know what, I really thought that we could help you and honestly I don't know for resource that could help you I don't actually know maybe we figure this out together.
That's a different conversation altogether, but don't say yes, yes, yes, pay, pay, pay, and then you don't deliver.
We live in such a catch 22 on this Dean. And it's an interesting thing as a society I think we would benefit tremendously from understanding it. And that's that so here's your salesperson who uses that tactic right, and he keeps his job.
Right. And then there's another salesperson who does not and decides not to close that and he gets fired, right because he does the right thing.
But maybe that could have been a close right maybe that could have been a person they serve so maybe there's other aspects rather variables that possibly exist that may have led to that person not closing to begin with the first place but top down, right.
You're involved. There's an owner involved. There's perhaps an executive team involved, you know, like, who creates what is it the chicken or the egg.
You know, is it the sales rep is it the prospect. Is it the company. You know, what do you do in those scenarios when there's a ton of sales reps. How do you start addressing that because, again, these people, let's give people the benefit of the doubt and I know it's not a popular idea.
Let's just let's just pretend or believe that the people in the company are good people trying to do great things or good things, and they happen to just be human.
Right. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. They have a human so they've got errors and flaws which means they also errors and flaws in their methodologies but how do you go about addressing that in a culture that is driven to sell and driven to use modern techniques and
tactics to force the cells or persuade the cells without without crushing the system. What do you do man.
Yeah, unfortunately, Jackson, the answer to this question is both shocking, obvious, simple, and also probably excruciating at the same time.
You have to decide who you are. And without that, you will never be able to navigate this at all. You have to decide who you are. If you don't know who you are.
You will be crushed under the weight of something like this. And I've experienced that I experienced that on Wall Street where I didn't know who I was.
And, you know, I mean, hey, I'm the first to admit I did things on Wall Street that I can't believe that I did. Nothing so nefarious that you know you should go to prison for our beef thrown in Hell's Fire but I did things that definitely skirted on the side of what my father would be like the
actually, my dad was the one that set me straight before the whole 9 11 thing he said, because I was explaining a deal to him and he said, do you know something integrity that for me to eat a habit or you don't.
There's no in between. And that was enough to sting me for me to go you know what, I got to do the right thing even when nobody's looking and so this is a this is an individual choice as hard as it is.
Unfortunately, you have no who you are have to decide anyway, who you are, and the kind of person you want to become.
What happens if you don't.
Well, the truth is if you don't, you will end up in the same vicious cycle. The events will look different in terms of their colors and places where they happen.
But the crux or the nucleus of all of that will be exactly the same, and you will lose out. You will never figure out who you are, and it will cost you dearly in relationships you just put it in relationships, whether it be personal relationships or relationships
your kids, friends, business, everything. And so, Jackson, lament on that for a second let me grab my power cord real quick I'll be back.
Yeah, dude, of course, absolutely. And while Dean's doing that, I'll just take over real quick because this this idea on integrity in cells and in relationships.
I mean, you'll have some temporal setback immediately but I promise you, I can promise you right now. If you decide to sacrifice your integrity versus your immediate income, you are going to regret it for the rest of your life you're going to have consequences, you know that you can't recover from.
Let's talk about that a little bit Dean are you still on.
I'm here man.
He's awesome. So, in terms of this integrity aspect and it bleeds over to right if you start leveraging tactics within your workplace to manipulate individuals Dean's right then you start leveraging those same tactics and it influences your language and your relationship with your spouse with your
mother in with your extended family that the patterns will come up you don't we don't tend to just, you know, adjust our patterns and act differently with one person and we do with another, especially if the bulk of our day we're dedicating our full time hours to tactics that are not in the best
of the individuals that we're supposed to be serving so yeah man I'm really happy that that that you brought that word up you're right it is simple it is is what did you say is simple.
It's obvious obvious, and I said it's also excruciating at the same time.
It is it's not easy to make the right decision. Right, if it was, we'd all be doing 100 push ups per day 100 sit us per day and walking 10,000 steps per day or doing more than that and eating the right foods, and not dedicating so much time to the
entertainment that that's out there but it's not easy to do the right things the memes are wrong. It's hard to do the right things. It's hard to do the right thing. It is hard to do the right thing.
My dad would always say Dean, life is simple but simple isn't always easy. He always says that life is simple, but simple isn't always easy. And he's right. It's not easy to do the right thing. It's a simple process though.
And I think the thing that I love the most about my father is that he would take all the complexities of life and just wrap it around a simple universal principle.
You know what I actually created a framework around what my father taught me even though he didn't know that he taught it to me, and it's called the no escape clause, the point of no escape.
And the way that happens is when when when you've lined up the consequences and the fact that you have a choice in what you do next, and that you bear the responsibility for what you do next that choice, and that whatever happens you're accountable for it.
You can escape it, whatever it is you choose, you will end up right where you belong based on that consequence and that level of accountability. You can try to blame game if you want to but it won't matter, because you are aware, you know, it's like willful ignorance is not going to save you.
You know, it's not going to save you and it's worse. It's worse. If you become aware and still decide to ignore the awareness that you just received that by the way is a disservice to yourself and everybody else who's connected with you.
Now you become aware of a better way to do something and you still ignore it because you want your conveniences or your comfort or, you know, your, your routines. It's absolutely.
That's not service that is just self serving. Dean your dedication to the values, your dedication to mastering the art of helping people, you know, through your craft, especially choosing a title as a as scary as cells expert is people in society right.
It's it's inspiring, you know, and it it's inspiring that you're willing to be, you know, what society would consider a lion, I would say, I mean, if you're looking at a title of cells, or types of representatives types of titles in the industries and you're to put animals associated with them, I think
people would associate a cells representative with something like a lion or something that's very alpha nature. And all that's amazing. I was going to ask you about it, but I want to shift gears, because we've built other people's visions tremendously today by all the wisdom that you've been laying down.
What's your vision.
My vision is built around the three main mantras of Epics Academy, which are people before profit service before sales and impact before income.
I want asked to become the global standard for how we actually sell and serve each other. What we truly want in life. I've been in service based sales for 20 plus years by now.
And, you know, it wraps into why chose sales trainer to be honest because our sales expert because that's the vehicle that has allowed me to, for me anyway, to touch and impact the most people.
Right. I'm talking thousands and thousands of people. You know, I'm talking, having the responsibility of being on on a stage in front of 10,000 people where it's not about saying the right thing but it's about serving the right way.
And so my vision is to have asked you the art and science of question and become the global standard for how we build relationships with our prospects. And by the way, ask is how I talk to my kids I use it to my with my kids with my lady it doesn't really matter.
I mean, you got to tailor it a different way and that's not so clinical depending on what you're talking about it's the same stuff because it's built around principles.
That's my vision for the world. And I want there to be a higher level of responsibility placed on any person who would dare to pick up this banner of either being in sales, being a sales trainer, a service provider who has to sell your offer, any business that has to sell anything to anyone.
We need a higher level of responsibility on what it means to do that because to me, it's huge and it's super important.
I love a man. Well, that's that just it eloquently displays why you and I are working on the strategic partnership that we're working on.
And so a line on things and, you know, I always joke around like, it would have been so easy to name first class business super hype marketing, you know, or like viral marketing growth and we would have been very successful.
But I always remind people that we would have had no standard of ethics, we had no standard of service that we would have to be held responsible for.
So I named our business first class business and I've been dedicated that for the last several years because I don't believe in in providing second class service.
I stand against it. If we do provide second class service, how will people feel right?
They will feel very upset with us. They will want us to improve and that's what I want. I want my brand to constantly be a challenge and we will sometimes, you know, we will fall on our face and we will have an experience that doesn't go right.
Those things are going to happen, but it doesn't negate my responsibility to continue to level up and my team understands the principle of forgiveness and moving forward and being willing to make mistakes very, very well.
So we're, yeah, I'm really happy dude that we got to bring you on to this today. You have a giveaway. We're a little bit over, but I'd love for you to let us know where can we reach out to you best Dean and and did you have a resource that you wanted me to get to?
I did. I did have a resource I wanted you to just read audience and what I put together is called the ultimate edge playbook.
And essentially, it gives you a really good synopsis into what ask is about number one, but anyone any service provider any sales professional right now any entrepreneur that would pick this up would get a very good roadmap as to what types of questions you should be
asking at each phase of your sales conversations. So when you're selling to your prospect when you're trying to enroll your prospect. There's a there's a roadmap to follow. This gives you the roadmap that exists within asks, within ask of how you can do that very efficiently.
And, you know, humanize selling with these unorthodox questions basically. And this walks you right through the roadmap that I use pretty much on a daily basis when I engage in any sales conversation with a potential prospect so
any power page. I know they're all power pages but you could pull that up again first real quick Jaime. Is there any specific power page you'd like to highlight you know that's the page like to run down and look at actually pull up again if I look at the table of contents I could tell you real quick.
So, actually power page 13 through 15. These are super important. All right. I mean, you may favor don't show it. Don't show it. But we're going to ask where to go guys what we want to do is just give you a chance to if you want to dive right in you've got limited
time. Go right to page 1314 take a look at what's what's provided their grab the value bombs and again consider the art of leveraging your time appropriate in life making time for those who matter if this is something that can help you then reach out to Dean and figure out who he is and what he
can do for you. It sounds like you know you're going to experience an opportunity to have somebody assess where you at and give you some honest feedback. And if you're in a good position to win further. I don't know. I don't know of a provider that asks more questions and more relevant
questions than what I saw Dean display today in terms of self training management most of the cell trainers I've worked with Dean great people, good systems. Fantastic stuff, but they're so spread then they don't have the time, you know to really get to know your
business and you get forced into a system or a funnel or process that is cookie cutter, you know and not actually tailored to the needs of your organization, which which won't end up leading to the results that you want.
I may if you have it. Let's also show Dean's LinkedIn profile because he's not the only Dean out there but he is the real Dean. I love that that's your link on LinkedIn.
I didn't make it guys is just a must I made it. So, yeah there is another dean for top actually on LinkedIn and so I had to find a way to differentiate that's exactly what it came up to.
Oh, it's awesome. I love it. And in fact, I met last week with a guy named Josh amazing amazing person his says LinkedIn dash. It's Josh dang it.
And I was like that is funny. That's probably my favorite URL that I've seen before I didn't get that creative with mine.
I'm sorry. There's Dean's LinkedIn profile. You probably saw the picture and stuff on there. If you're watching the screen and Dean. Thanks. Thanks man for being here on vision pros live we appreciate you.
Thanks my pleasure man. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. We'll see you soon. Everybody have a fantastic week. We'll see you next week on vision pros live. Thanks for your time. Take care.