WEBVTT 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:02.759 Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome into another 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:04.620 episode of Vision Pros Live. I'm your show host, 00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:07.280 Jackson Callum, founder and CEO of First Class 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:09.640 Business. And we've got Kathy Fang in the house 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:11.919 of Signal Growth, and she's got other partnerships 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:13.980 in the works or companies that she's representing. 00:00:14.099 --> 00:00:16.140 So we'll be talking about that. We caught her. 00:00:16.179 --> 00:00:18.480 She's so cool that she's taking time for us while 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.920 she's also at the amazing South by Southwest. 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:23.300 And we're going to be talking today about why 00:00:23.300 --> 00:00:26.120 your business isn't growing. And is it leadership, 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:29.230 team, infrastructure, marketing? We're going 00:00:29.230 --> 00:00:31.089 to look at some of those dynamics. But first, 00:00:31.230 --> 00:00:33.789 Kathy, welcome to Vision Pros Live again. Yeah, 00:00:33.850 --> 00:00:36.090 thank you, Jackson, for having me. Super excited 00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:39.450 to be here. Absolutely. Well, you've got such 00:00:39.450 --> 00:00:41.750 a track record of different opportunities when 00:00:41.750 --> 00:00:43.689 it comes to growth and marketing and leading 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:46.210 teams. And so I'd love for you to lead the way 00:00:46.210 --> 00:00:48.929 by walking through some of your experience. What 00:00:48.929 --> 00:00:51.810 does that spectrum look like? Because it's quite 00:00:51.810 --> 00:00:53.429 the portfolio of companies that you've helped. 00:00:54.140 --> 00:00:57.740 Yeah, absolutely. So my background is coming 00:00:57.740 --> 00:01:01.539 from the Fortune 500 company. So I hold senior 00:01:01.539 --> 00:01:05.239 positions from... Constellation Brands, where 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:08.200 it's the home of Corona, Modelo. Before that, 00:01:08.260 --> 00:01:11.739 I was at Capital One. So overall, over 13 years 00:01:11.739 --> 00:01:14.060 of experience coming from a Fortune 500 company 00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:17.579 background. But currently, I also have my own 00:01:17.579 --> 00:01:19.920 business, which is Signal Growth that you just 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.480 mentioned, where I help founders and entrepreneurs 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:26.599 to really diagnose their growth bottleneck. And 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:28.799 I recently took on Neuro, but it's still secret, 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:33.489 so we keep it under the cover now. For me, it's 00:01:33.489 --> 00:01:35.450 like I'm coming from a very interesting background. 00:01:35.530 --> 00:01:38.450 I have a good blend of the corporate world as 00:01:38.450 --> 00:01:41.010 well as the startup world. So I understand the 00:01:41.010 --> 00:01:43.709 pinpoints ins and outs from both sides of things 00:01:43.709 --> 00:01:47.409 and am able to bridge the gap in terms of how 00:01:47.409 --> 00:01:49.950 do we utilize the Fortune 500 company frameworks 00:01:49.950 --> 00:01:52.989 to help entrepreneurs supercharge their growth. 00:01:53.769 --> 00:01:56.409 Huge. And my friends, Kathy and I talked about 00:01:56.409 --> 00:01:58.650 this, how we might be looking at repeatable systems 00:01:58.650 --> 00:02:01.609 for pre -seed. growth stage and enterprise brands 00:02:01.609 --> 00:02:04.670 if we have time today. If we don't, then I'm 00:02:04.670 --> 00:02:08.409 sure her and I can work out some methods of making 00:02:08.409 --> 00:02:10.449 sure that we bridge those gaps. If you want that, 00:02:10.449 --> 00:02:13.090 then by all means, drop some comments in the 00:02:13.090 --> 00:02:16.050 chats that we know and we'll always be looking 00:02:16.050 --> 00:02:18.550 at those and getting back to them. So one of 00:02:18.550 --> 00:02:20.509 the things that drew my attention with that too, 00:02:20.689 --> 00:02:22.789 Kathy, is how long have you been a business owner 00:02:22.789 --> 00:02:27.259 for? So far, probably two years now. So the journey 00:02:27.259 --> 00:02:31.300 came from, I went to the Wharton School for B 00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:34.139 -School and that's where I realized that I have 00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:37.900 passion for entrepreneurship because the world 00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:39.780 is so big. I grew up in the corporate world, 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:41.539 kind of like grew up in a corporate world. I 00:02:41.539 --> 00:02:44.900 learned a lot of different things from a very 00:02:44.900 --> 00:02:47.539 structured environment. But then when I went 00:02:47.539 --> 00:02:50.729 to B -School, that's how I realized that. The 00:02:50.729 --> 00:02:52.810 things can be conducted so differently. You can 00:02:52.810 --> 00:02:54.990 look at the things like in hundred different 00:02:54.990 --> 00:02:56.930 views and they're just kind of like the blue 00:02:56.930 --> 00:02:59.409 ocean in terms of the entrepreneurship where 00:02:59.409 --> 00:03:03.050 really inspired me to be one myself. I feel this 00:03:03.050 --> 00:03:05.069 is definitely like once in a lifetime opportunity. 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:07.129 You got to be an entrepreneurship to understand 00:03:07.129 --> 00:03:10.090 like ins and outs of the business. So that's 00:03:10.090 --> 00:03:12.810 how I started my journey of entrepreneurship 00:03:12.810 --> 00:03:17.110 like two years ago. Awesome. And my friends, 00:03:17.150 --> 00:03:18.610 we're going to be diving in deep where, like 00:03:18.610 --> 00:03:21.020 I said, we're going to talk about. um the the 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:23.719 realities of leadership team infrastructure and 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:25.979 marketing and don't sleep on that my friends 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:27.939 especially those who've been at this for a while 00:03:27.939 --> 00:03:30.439 i see so many entrepreneurs stuck with looking 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:32.680 at sales and marketing as the challenge or as 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:35.340 a problem but often the uh the real challenge 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:36.699 is deeper than that so we're going to come right 00:03:36.699 --> 00:03:38.400 back we'll dive into it and we'll see on the 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:41.099 other side all right welcome in to vision pros 00:03:41.099 --> 00:03:44.419 live with jackson callum i'm your show host we'll 00:03:44.419 --> 00:03:46.419 be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs 00:03:46.419 --> 00:03:49.240 and guest leaders who are building fantastic 00:03:49.449 --> 00:04:00.289 of visions out there. Hey, welcome into Vision 00:04:00.289 --> 00:04:02.270 Pros Live. My name is Jackson Callum. I'm excited 00:04:02.270 --> 00:04:04.389 to help you as a visionary pull your vision to 00:04:04.389 --> 00:04:07.229 life, live your legacy. live with passion and 00:04:07.229 --> 00:04:10.310 purpose all the good things in my opinion this 00:04:10.310 --> 00:04:12.330 is not about hustle and grind this is about doing 00:04:12.330 --> 00:04:14.530 things the right way and so if you feel stuck 00:04:14.530 --> 00:04:17.670 between urgent projects unclear priorities or 00:04:17.670 --> 00:04:19.649 you're stalling out in growth and sales and marketing 00:04:19.649 --> 00:04:21.589 seems a little bit off we're going to dive into 00:04:21.589 --> 00:04:24.050 some higher level realities that affect growth 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:25.889 first then we're going to bring the superstar 00:04:25.889 --> 00:04:28.689 kathy fang in to talk about the wedding triangle 00:04:28.689 --> 00:04:30.649 what now what's really neat is she's also gotten 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:33.769 to see these realities that fortune 500 companies 00:04:33.769 --> 00:04:35.829 firsthand she spent more than a decade in those 00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:37.889 and so we want to maximize her opportunity to 00:04:37.889 --> 00:04:39.350 talk about every single one of these and she's 00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:41.689 in her second year of entrepreneurship so um 00:04:41.689 --> 00:04:44.310 and you know i'm always a little bit reticent 00:04:44.310 --> 00:04:46.649 when it comes to newer entrepreneurs because 00:04:46.649 --> 00:04:49.100 if they haven't crossed the 10 -year mark then 00:04:49.100 --> 00:04:51.139 they really don't know the good and the bad and 00:04:51.139 --> 00:04:52.779 the ugly that's coming. But at the same time, 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:54.800 she has gotten to see it from an entrepreneur 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.160 angle within those other companies. And I see 00:04:57.160 --> 00:04:59.360 the solid nature that she has. I can tell she's 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.300 done things right. And that is something that's 00:05:01.300 --> 00:05:03.019 super important to me. So before I bring her 00:05:03.019 --> 00:05:04.519 back on, I want to give you another couple of 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:08.040 resources real fast. One is Dr. Shannon and Dr. 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.899 Justin Pierce of journey to wellness plan .com. 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:13.439 These sponsors up here, my friends, they do not 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.339 pay to be any sponsors. These are companies that 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:17.500 I love because I've seen what they're able to 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:20.139 do. I've known them for eight years and every 00:05:20.139 --> 00:05:22.240 family member or friend that I know that has. 00:05:22.670 --> 00:05:24.250 gotten to a point of hopelessness with their 00:05:24.250 --> 00:05:26.129 own doctor. That's kind of the trigger for me 00:05:26.129 --> 00:05:28.410 to, hey, can I introduce you to Dr. Shannon on 00:05:28.410 --> 00:05:31.410 Instagram? And if they say yes, I do that. I've 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:33.029 done that for three people over the years, and 00:05:33.029 --> 00:05:35.449 all three of them have raved about the different 00:05:35.449 --> 00:05:37.810 results that Shannon has been able to bring them. 00:05:37.930 --> 00:05:40.089 So if you happen to have a loved one who's suffering 00:05:40.089 --> 00:05:42.009 from some type of illness or health concern, 00:05:42.189 --> 00:05:44.709 then I highly recommend checking out what Shannon's 00:05:44.709 --> 00:05:46.829 up to. She's not wavy magic wands. She just does 00:05:46.829 --> 00:05:48.550 the right tests. And she also had a critical 00:05:48.550 --> 00:05:52.259 illness, fibromyalgia. and other elements that 00:05:52.259 --> 00:05:54.379 other doctors had told her like it's just in 00:05:54.379 --> 00:05:56.420 your head um and that's not that's obviously 00:05:56.420 --> 00:05:58.480 not fair it's not correct either there are things 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.180 that can be done so i hope that blesses one of 00:06:00.180 --> 00:06:02.180 your loved ones then there's jennifer reed with 00:06:02.180 --> 00:06:04.740 practice makes permanent jennifer reed is an 00:06:04.740 --> 00:06:08.160 eq sq specialist she's a facilitator for corporate 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:11.959 uh sorry for cultural awareness and i i can tell 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:13.740 you that all there's so many studies if you go 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:16.399 to any ai right now and ask can you show me the 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:19.829 studies that showcase how does culture and leadership 00:06:19.829 --> 00:06:22.009 have an impact on brands, you'll see that it 00:06:22.009 --> 00:06:23.829 not only improves the work environment, it also 00:06:23.829 --> 00:06:25.589 improves the profitability of the companies. 00:06:25.850 --> 00:06:27.850 When you're evaluating who you want to bring 00:06:27.850 --> 00:06:32.250 in for that type of retreat or experience or 00:06:32.250 --> 00:06:35.170 up -leveling your brand, I would recommend that 00:06:35.170 --> 00:06:39.149 you ask them, why do you care? What qualifies 00:06:39.149 --> 00:06:41.649 you for this, right? Most people lean into resumes. 00:06:42.250 --> 00:06:44.189 I like the ones who lean into their personal 00:06:44.189 --> 00:06:46.230 stories and show you that they have a resilience 00:06:46.230 --> 00:06:48.649 related to this that really helps them unpack 00:06:48.649 --> 00:06:51.189 the truth and the reality of growth. I recommend 00:06:51.189 --> 00:06:53.230 bringing a tissue box when you talk to Jennifer 00:06:53.230 --> 00:06:55.740 Reed. You're going to need it. She has every 00:06:55.740 --> 00:06:58.500 reason for helping every company on earth improve 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:00.480 in emotional intelligence and spiritual intelligence. 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:03.839 So one last piece here, my friends. I hope that 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:05.819 you join me on supporting The Water Project, 00:07:06.019 --> 00:07:08.459 even if that means just sharing the link. My 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:09.860 hope, though, is that you'll dive in and take 00:07:09.860 --> 00:07:11.540 a look at these different stories because they 00:07:11.540 --> 00:07:13.079 actually show you the communities that they're 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.060 helping. And I remember years ago when I first 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:17.540 donated to this cause, I sent them the $10 or 00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:20.500 $20. And they sent me a report of that community 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:21.819 and what was happening with it. I got to see 00:07:21.819 --> 00:07:23.480 how many people were affected by it. I got to 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:24.899 see what they built. I thought it was one of 00:07:24.899 --> 00:07:27.180 the coolest, most transparent realities. And 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:28.519 then I started to note that there's hundreds 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:30.600 of millions. I don't know how many millions. 00:07:30.699 --> 00:07:32.779 There are millions of people who do not have 00:07:32.779 --> 00:07:34.639 access to clean drinking water. And I've taken 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:36.579 that for granted my entire life. I've never been 00:07:36.579 --> 00:07:39.449 thirsty. in my entire life and so it was a little 00:07:39.449 --> 00:07:41.389 bit hard to grasp the value and the importance 00:07:41.389 --> 00:07:43.529 of this but when you start to study this out 00:07:43.529 --> 00:07:46.009 with this come with this uh brand you start to 00:07:46.009 --> 00:07:48.129 see that you're able to make a generational impact 00:07:48.129 --> 00:07:51.470 on such a such a small donation and so if there's 00:07:51.470 --> 00:07:53.410 a cause that's drawing your attention more than 00:07:53.410 --> 00:07:55.769 this and do me a favor drop it in the link drop 00:07:55.769 --> 00:07:57.949 the link in the comments because i will take 00:07:57.949 --> 00:07:59.470 a personal look at that and see what we can do 00:07:59.470 --> 00:08:02.009 to help out as well um this cause again i see 00:08:02.009 --> 00:08:04.389 these kids celebrating water like my kids celebrate 00:08:04.389 --> 00:08:07.620 christmas day And I can't think of too many more 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:09.839 humbling experiences in life and something that 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:12.100 we can do more to help for generations. So, again, 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:13.800 give us a chance to help out. We got a billion 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:15.560 people to help in the world. And now let's get 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:17.720 back to helping each and every one of you. So, 00:08:17.779 --> 00:08:19.920 Kathy Fang, again, thanks for being here on Vision 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:22.639 Pros Live. Let's dive in. Yeah, let's do it. 00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:24.759 Thank you for having me here again. Super excited. 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:29.810 Absolutely. I was mentioning earlier that there's 00:08:29.810 --> 00:08:32.830 business owners who are maybe struggling with 00:08:32.830 --> 00:08:34.649 their growth and they may think it's marketing 00:08:34.649 --> 00:08:38.509 and sales or maybe that's their team. But I feel 00:08:38.509 --> 00:08:41.250 like the real issue often lies deeper than that. 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:43.649 And so while they're sometimes maybe stuck in 00:08:43.649 --> 00:08:45.750 between urgent projects and unclear priorities 00:08:45.750 --> 00:08:50.149 or stalled growth, what have you seen? What's 00:08:50.149 --> 00:08:52.470 really holding back these companies, Kathy, from 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:54.429 your end? And feel free to just say, Jackson, 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:56.590 it's just marketing. You can contradict me on 00:08:56.590 --> 00:09:01.240 this. yeah um so so this is a very good question 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.019 because i was just talking to another um founder 00:09:04.019 --> 00:09:07.019 about this yesterday so essentially from my point 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:10.440 of view um the growth bottleneck really depends 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:12.919 on the growth stage that you're currently in 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.440 right so like for me i have experience coming 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.240 from different um kind of like a different growth 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.419 stage of the companies what we really see like 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.320 the skill sets or even like the bottleneck that 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:26.799 you're experiencing from zero to three million 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:29.039 million is going to be different from three to 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.779 five or five plus right so when you're at the 00:09:31.779 --> 00:09:34.860 ceo c company before hitting like three million 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:37.879 dollar mark you're essentially experienced different 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:40.600 type of uh gross bottleneck like you don't know 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:42.879 what your product market fit is you haven't found 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:46.500 your niche audience or even even being able to 00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:50.639 find a scalability opportunity you can then establish 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:53.500 a system yeah you just feel like everyday scrambling 00:09:53.500 --> 00:09:56.840 so there's a different type of kind of bottleneck 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:59.320 once you hit that three million dollar mark you 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:03.919 start thinking about what are additional growth 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.700 opportunities because you have the initial mvp 00:10:06.700 --> 00:10:09.860 and you're getting closer to your product market 00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:13.240 fit so here you will be you know hiring different 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.820 people with different skill sets you can probably 00:10:15.820 --> 00:10:19.799 like start from founder -led marketing or even 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:24.149 product marketing into a more kind of into a 00:10:24.149 --> 00:10:27.049 different like area of expertise you can actually 00:10:27.049 --> 00:10:31.190 bring experts where the signal growth is my company 00:10:31.190 --> 00:10:35.190 comes in that we help people or founders that 00:10:35.190 --> 00:10:38.590 pass three million dollar ARR where you already 00:10:38.590 --> 00:10:40.870 have some sort of growth system but it's not 00:10:40.870 --> 00:10:43.669 stabilized yet and but you do have attraction 00:10:43.669 --> 00:10:47.850 in terms of audiences so that's where my company 00:10:47.850 --> 00:10:50.509 comes in to help founders to really diagnose 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.299 this stage of the game like what are their um 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:56.720 you know growth bottlenecks and then once you 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:58.960 have the system how do we really insert people 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:02.679 that have specific skill sets that help you continuously 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:06.960 skill um your your offer your product and your 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:11.289 company so um that's it how you view the bottleneck. 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:13.710 And then once you really pass that product market 00:11:13.710 --> 00:11:16.850 fit stage, it's really the game of scaling. So 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:19.509 that's where the Fortune 500 company framework 00:11:19.509 --> 00:11:22.610 comes in because that's bulletproof. That's already 00:11:22.610 --> 00:11:26.470 proven. I've spent over 13 years to do all the 00:11:26.470 --> 00:11:28.409 different tests and learns from different industries 00:11:28.409 --> 00:11:31.309 against different consumers. So all the mistakes 00:11:31.309 --> 00:11:34.029 that myself and my teammate, you don't have to 00:11:34.029 --> 00:11:36.570 make it again. So that's essentially my offers 00:11:36.570 --> 00:11:38.730 to the entrepreneurs at the different stage. 00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:43.440 um but also from pre -seed um jackson will previous 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:45.580 talk about like a winning triangle so you probably 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:49.179 hear about this like along the podcast um yeah 00:11:49.179 --> 00:11:50.940 we're definitely going to talk about it i want 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.500 to go back and focus a little bit on uh this 00:11:53.500 --> 00:11:55.600 we called it a bonus earlier but since we dove 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:59.419 in if you can give one word let's play like um 00:11:59.419 --> 00:12:01.659 who wants to be a millionaire style one word 00:12:01.659 --> 00:12:04.960 or two word one to two word answer pre -season 00:12:05.419 --> 00:12:08.679 Pre -seed company. Pre -seed. What's the challenge? 00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:12.200 What's the most common challenge? Like one word 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:15.580 that comes up to my mind. That's like 10 words. 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:21.759 no chaos i would say pre -c is chaos um but also 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:25.860 very creative right so essentially no no no you're 00:12:25.860 --> 00:12:27.559 gonna we're gonna go to we're gonna go to growth 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:30.039 stage now so yeah and they're gonna come to you 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:31.899 for that that resonates with them they're gonna 00:12:31.899 --> 00:12:34.779 be like oh my gosh she nailed it right so growth 00:12:34.779 --> 00:12:39.740 stage growth stage one to two words scale scale 00:12:39.740 --> 00:12:47.620 is the challenge cool enterprise enterprise That's 00:12:47.620 --> 00:12:50.340 interesting. Enterprise. I would say enterprise 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.059 is still scale. It's just different type of scale. 00:12:55.179 --> 00:12:57.360 Okay, so growth stage, I would say it's growth, 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.240 but enterprise will be scale. Okay, so growth 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:04.700 stage is what? Growth. Well, growth. That makes 00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:08.100 sense. Perfect. So what's one word, though, within 00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:10.480 growth? If you had to choose one to two, what 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:16.500 would it be? That's interesting. One or two words. 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.659 I would say hyper growth. Hyper. So creating 00:13:20.659 --> 00:13:22.799 hyper growth or is it because they're chasing 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.120 hyper growth? I think creating hyper growth for 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.039 the company to be sustainable into the next stage, 00:13:29.139 --> 00:13:31.320 right? Because otherwise probably 30 % of the 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.980 company would die at the growth stage. Yeah. 00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:36.740 Yeah. Nice. Okay, cool. That was fun for sure. 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:39.639 We'll come back to these subjects as well. So 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.440 we were talking about these elements that also 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.840 can disrupt growth. And I want to talk about 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:47.580 the growth illusion a little bit. I'll talk about 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:49.820 from my side as well, why most companies fix 00:13:49.820 --> 00:13:52.820 the wrong problem. I see so many companies. It 00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:54.320 doesn't matter if you're startups or not focused 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.159 so heavily on how do we get more leads? How do 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:57.679 we get more leads? How do we get more deals rather 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.600 than how do we serve better? How do we serve 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.460 people better? And if you're not serving people 00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:04.840 really well, then the rest of that is going to 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:07.019 be an absolute challenge. And so leadership, 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:09.980 team and infrastructure, you know, don't be that 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:12.159 entrepreneur who thinks you're above and beyond 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:14.639 and already doing everything that you can to 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.519 support people. Usually when we get that level 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.799 of arrogance, our entire process starts to fall 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.200 apart and starts to disintegrate. So on your 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.659 side, Kathy, growth illusion, is that a concept 00:14:26.659 --> 00:14:30.120 that AI invented as we created this? description 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.799 or is that one of your terminologies um i think 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.240 it's a one of my terminologies oh cool awesome 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.240 let's talk about your set of growth illusion 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:43.090 for sure yeah so For me, again, like the growth 00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:46.190 solutions can be broken out into five different 00:14:46.190 --> 00:14:48.350 stages of the game that the entrepreneurs are 00:14:48.350 --> 00:14:51.409 playing. So we can talk about, like, for example, 00:14:51.409 --> 00:14:53.850 for pre -seed companies where you're still trying 00:14:53.850 --> 00:14:57.070 to build your MVP or solidify your product market 00:14:57.070 --> 00:15:00.710 fit, your growth solutions is essentially, you 00:15:00.710 --> 00:15:03.110 know, finding your winning triangle, right? So 00:15:03.110 --> 00:15:05.750 where we talked about your product and market 00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:09.649 and also pricing. a lot of blind spots at the 00:15:09.649 --> 00:15:12.769 entrepreneur at this stage they typically find 00:15:12.769 --> 00:15:16.149 is they love their baby but not everybody will 00:15:16.149 --> 00:15:18.669 love your baby right so like in order to create 00:15:18.669 --> 00:15:21.750 attraction you have to find some people that 00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:23.710 really love your product not your friends not 00:15:23.710 --> 00:15:25.990 your family but some people out there in the 00:15:25.990 --> 00:15:28.570 consumer or in your addressable market that truly 00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:31.110 love your product and not just like your product 00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:33.730 they're willing to pay for your product so in 00:15:33.730 --> 00:15:36.899 the stage of the game We really need to find 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:39.500 that winning triangle between your product market 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:42.580 fit, as well as the offer and the pricing offer 00:15:42.580 --> 00:15:45.480 that's fitting into those customers' willingness 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:49.059 to pay. So, for example, if I really need an 00:15:49.059 --> 00:15:51.340 iPhone, but if the iPhone is selling me for $10 00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:54.080 ,000, I'd probably just be like finding some... 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:57.200 or alternatives to you know like to replace my 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:59.759 needs so it's just if you can fit in that bucket 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.080 of a consumer's willingness to pay that's where 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:04.539 you start gaining attractions so that's what 00:16:04.539 --> 00:16:07.759 i talked about at the pre -c stage um to really 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.419 finding your um your winning triangle between 00:16:10.419 --> 00:16:13.120 your product market and the pricing so let's 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:14.840 slow down a little bit so when you say winning 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.220 triangle there's three points on this triangle 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:20.320 for you one is the product one is the market 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:24.360 and one is the offer And learning how to diagnose 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:27.320 where we're at with those three things will help 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.379 drive clarity for our ability to drive revenue. 00:16:29.779 --> 00:16:32.899 And so how do you how do you diagnose product? 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.340 How do you diagnose market and how do you diagnose 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.559 offer? Let's go one at a time. Yeah, that's that's 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:40.909 a great question. So. essentially at the pre 00:16:40.909 --> 00:16:43.409 -seed stage where you don't necessarily need 00:16:43.409 --> 00:16:45.710 a lot of paid media or like a paid marketing 00:16:45.710 --> 00:16:48.429 support right so at this stage it's still uh 00:16:48.429 --> 00:16:51.309 about marketing where vc loves the most they 00:16:51.309 --> 00:16:53.909 want to see the product to sell itself so how 00:16:53.909 --> 00:16:56.590 do we really diagnose if the product and market 00:16:56.590 --> 00:16:59.490 and then pricing offer is you know like hitting 00:16:59.490 --> 00:17:02.570 the right spot is to really build your consumer 00:17:02.570 --> 00:17:05.210 feedback loop to understand who are you targeting 00:17:05.210 --> 00:17:09.019 right so first is clarity like uh as an entrepreneur 00:17:09.019 --> 00:17:11.519 first you have to love your product and then 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.319 be passionate about what you're building and 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.480 then second is your your passion point, not just 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.880 a passion point, but it's a passion point that 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.799 can solve and address some people's pain point, 00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:26.480 not just vitamin, it's a pain point that people 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:28.819 want to have a product or service to resolve. 00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:32.279 So being able to diagnose this part of bottleneck 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:35.079 is to essentially build a customer feedback loop, 00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:37.920 right? So finding the right customers intentional. 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:42.220 that you intend to target, and then being able 00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:44.680 to build that feedback loop to have them give 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:46.859 you feedback, try out your product, give feedback 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:49.880 of what your product is doing, if there's any 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:53.779 advancement or additional features that they 00:17:53.779 --> 00:17:57.160 hope that you can offer to solve that problem. 00:17:57.380 --> 00:18:00.460 So continuously building that product loop and 00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:03.640 pushing out iterations to really improve the 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:08.170 overall features is very critical. the frequency 00:18:08.170 --> 00:18:10.430 of pushing out features and being able to like 00:18:10.430 --> 00:18:12.670 continuously solidify their product loop has 00:18:12.670 --> 00:18:15.349 to be very frequent not just like every month 00:18:15.349 --> 00:18:18.089 every week it could be every day right so you 00:18:18.089 --> 00:18:20.329 will never be able to build a really great product 00:18:20.329 --> 00:18:23.339 without consumer feedback and then the faster 00:18:23.339 --> 00:18:26.380 you can do it at this stage the the further you 00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:28.940 can go compared to other people so it's very 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:31.240 important to really create a product feedback 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:33.960 loop within your consumer it continues building 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:36.759 that product that's really solid that people 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.720 will love um and then once yeah and then once 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.079 that's where i'll i'll just double double tap 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.579 that with you michael uh michael gerber of the 00:18:46.579 --> 00:18:49.180 e -myth is all about making sure that that happens 00:18:49.180 --> 00:18:52.839 first um gina wickman of us same thing that's 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.380 gotta happen first um uh the one the scale book 00:18:56.380 --> 00:19:00.140 um shoot what is that book called um i'll think 00:19:00.140 --> 00:19:02.019 of a little bit but it's another they talk about 00:19:02.019 --> 00:19:04.140 building communities and how you want to build 00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:06.099 your community first you can get that feedback 00:19:06.099 --> 00:19:09.359 of what is it that you actually want so continue 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:14.519 what's next Yes. So after you build a product 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:17.539 feedback loop to understand your consumer needs 00:19:17.539 --> 00:19:20.339 and wants, and if your product can satisfy them, 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.359 then it's more consumer insights here, right? 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:26.079 Like based on your product offer that they love, 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.680 how much they can pay for it. A lot of SaaS companies 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.000 start with the freemium just to get user acquisition, 00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:36.059 get the traction going. But once you pass certain 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:39.460 goals, then there's where you can see how much 00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:41.279 you can actually make. through your product right 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:43.940 so when you transition from freemium into either 00:19:43.940 --> 00:19:46.180 subscription model or different type of business 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:49.859 model then the pricing offer becomes really critical 00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:53.480 at this stage like how much does a cost customer 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:56.420 will willing to pay for your product and then 00:19:56.420 --> 00:19:58.440 that requires a lot of different tests and learns 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.849 to understand is it $9 .99, $7 .99 or $19 .99. 00:20:03.130 --> 00:20:06.970 And that even every dollar matters when you scale 00:20:06.970 --> 00:20:10.069 up to a million plus people, right? So $1 difference, 00:20:10.309 --> 00:20:14.930 it's a million dollar difference. Well, let me 00:20:14.930 --> 00:20:18.470 speak to the lower end of the market, the SMBs 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:20.690 out there, because you're right. And when you're 00:20:20.690 --> 00:20:22.450 in the SaaS world and you're in the corporate 00:20:22.450 --> 00:20:24.890 world, they understand freemium well, but small 00:20:24.890 --> 00:20:27.329 business owners don't understand freemium at 00:20:27.329 --> 00:20:30.079 all. All most of the time. And they're so worried 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.180 about giving things away, giving value that they 00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:35.019 choke themselves out because they're not providing 00:20:35.019 --> 00:20:37.039 enough value to be relevant in the market. My 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:40.660 friends, the only five companies to crack the 00:20:40.660 --> 00:20:43.400 top 50 companies in the world in the last 50 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.140 years, every single one of them has a freemium 00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:49.440 business model. Nobody has done it without that. 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.180 And so as a small business owner, we've got to 00:20:52.180 --> 00:20:54.740 be able to think. What can I do to provide more 00:20:54.740 --> 00:20:56.920 value to people that doesn't take my time, that 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:58.519 doesn't bankrupt my company, but that allows 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:00.880 my brand to show that we have an unfair advantage 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:02.539 over the market because of how well we serve. 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.259 There's so much opportunity with that. So pricing 00:21:05.259 --> 00:21:07.740 and offers also super important for you and the 00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:10.420 small business side. Most of you aren't CFOs. 00:21:10.579 --> 00:21:12.859 And so trying to figure out your own financial 00:21:12.859 --> 00:21:15.339 reality and how to create your margins and yada 00:21:15.339 --> 00:21:18.000 yada, it can be a very overwhelming, intimidating, 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.869 frustrating process. Lean into an executive that 00:21:20.869 --> 00:21:23.809 you trust to help you build that out. Continue. 00:21:24.529 --> 00:21:27.849 Absolutely. And then like some of the clients, 00:21:27.970 --> 00:21:30.630 though, I work not only with entrepreneur or 00:21:30.630 --> 00:21:33.269 like the SaaS company, but also kind of creators. 00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:37.130 So creator coaches like going into digital service 00:21:37.130 --> 00:21:41.569 verticals where exactly like Jackson, you mentioned 00:21:41.569 --> 00:21:43.730 like they feel like, oh, you need to pay for 00:21:43.730 --> 00:21:46.230 my service to begin with. Right. But before you 00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:48.269 build the credibility, before people actually 00:21:48.269 --> 00:21:51.589 know you in a very competitive and clustered 00:21:51.589 --> 00:21:54.690 market, it's really hard to break through without 00:21:54.690 --> 00:21:57.319 having having some sort of connection with your 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.259 audiences, either virtually or actually in person. 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.079 So there is a different ways of entrepreneurs 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:05.900 like in the input product stage that you can 00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:09.839 provide free values to kind of lure your customer 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:12.240 in to get a little bit more face time with you, 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:14.500 get a little bit more like building trust and 00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:17.740 building likability. And then those are the essential 00:22:17.740 --> 00:22:19.960 step that needs to take before they can actually 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:22.339 pay the premium and high ticket price to your 00:22:22.339 --> 00:22:25.319 product. So that's also very important. in terms 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.259 of how to build this flywheel to, you know, based 00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:31.579 on the consumer journey to, you know, kind of 00:22:31.579 --> 00:22:34.519 baking into from freemium into lower ticket and 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.319 then finally high ticket. Absolutely. And so 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:40.940 I get a little bit lost. So which one are we 00:22:40.940 --> 00:22:43.740 on as far as the winning triangle goes? Yeah, 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:45.819 we completed the winning triangle. We completed 00:22:45.819 --> 00:22:50.859 the diagnosis of pre -seed, I believe. Yes. Okay. 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.339 And so where do you want to go from here, Kathy? 00:22:54.580 --> 00:22:57.759 From here, I think we can talk about growth stage 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.700 of the company. Growth stage. Okay. Growth stage, 00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:05.900 diagnosing, winning triangle. So from the growth 00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:10.079 stage where you had the 35 million revenue. revenue 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.119 dollar mark here you're playing a different game 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:15.319 you have some sort of mvp and then you understand 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:18.299 initial customer feedback and you cannot test 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:21.099 out your product market and the pricing offer 00:23:21.099 --> 00:23:24.759 and then where you need to scale from 35 million 00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:28.759 plus to 20 million is a different game so here 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:32.079 is you need to start building a team like because 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.960 you cannot do a 5 million people job anymore 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.700 and then you need to go you will start pivoting 00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:41.910 away from the phone I speak for marketing because 00:23:41.910 --> 00:23:44.089 I'm a marketing person. But of course, for other 00:23:44.089 --> 00:23:47.210 operations, sales, different functions of the 00:23:47.210 --> 00:23:49.730 business, it's no longer being able to just take 00:23:49.730 --> 00:23:51.890 on by the founder because you have more business, 00:23:51.970 --> 00:23:55.900 you have more volume. So here. how do we really 00:23:55.900 --> 00:23:59.339 structure a healthy split of the team, like roles 00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:02.079 and responsibilities, being able to hire people 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:05.160 to really help you continue to drive your growth, 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:07.900 replicate your growth model, and then solidify 00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:11.819 the team growth to achieve that even higher revenue. 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:16.259 It's something very critical in this stage. Let 00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:17.940 me slow down a little bit because I want to make 00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:19.660 sure that we all understand. I might have misunderstood 00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:22.740 you. Kathy, otherwise we have to agree to disagree. 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.380 I've never seen a solopreneur make it to $3 million 00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:30.240 ever. Yeah, that's true. Ever. So they had to 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.660 build a team in order to get there. And so when 00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:36.359 you say build a team, can you break down what 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:38.359 the difference looks like between that original 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.859 team and the scaling of a team? Absolutely. So 00:24:41.859 --> 00:24:44.400 original team is just funding team, right? So 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.940 anywhere from solopreneur one person to maybe 00:24:46.940 --> 00:24:49.779 like three, four people. How do you know that's 00:24:49.779 --> 00:24:53.430 made $3 million by themselves with no team? Name 00:24:53.430 --> 00:24:57.210 one person for me. I know a consumer brand that 00:24:57.210 --> 00:25:00.029 I used to work with. It's like they are able 00:25:00.029 --> 00:25:03.150 to drive to 3 .5 million revenue with just founding 00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:05.750 teams for two people. Of course. So they had 00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:08.829 at least one person. Okay. So they did have somebody. 00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:13.730 Yes. And you name another. Yeah. Name another. 00:25:14.859 --> 00:25:17.640 This is my point. We can't. And so please, guys, 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:19.880 don't follow that. Like, don't follow. Don't 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:21.619 don't be the anomaly in the world. Don't be the 00:25:21.619 --> 00:25:23.579 only unicorn that exists. You're probably not 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:26.119 that you're putting yourself in danger. So recognize 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:28.359 that you need a team as an entrepreneur from 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:30.019 the beginning or you're going to end up ruining 00:25:30.019 --> 00:25:33.440 your own. Don't do it. Get a team from stage 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.400 one. But let's go to growth stage. Let's define 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.019 the team. So the team is what I meant was you 00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:42.099 absolutely need to have a team, but the team 00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:44.059 of part -time people, right? You probably don't 00:25:44.059 --> 00:25:46.259 need a full -time hire at the initial stage. 00:25:46.539 --> 00:25:50.509 I don't agree. No, hell no. Neither does the 00:25:50.509 --> 00:25:52.970 EMS with Michael Gerber. Neither does EOS, Gina 00:25:52.970 --> 00:25:55.210 Wickman. Neither does the stats of the United 00:25:55.210 --> 00:25:57.410 States. We have more than 100 years track record 00:25:57.410 --> 00:26:00.390 of 96 % of businesses failing. That means 96 00:26:00.390 --> 00:26:03.650 out of 100 people that we talk to in a day, their 00:26:03.650 --> 00:26:07.210 business is going to fail and lose. And the primary 00:26:07.210 --> 00:26:09.730 reason for that is because they delegate by abdication. 00:26:09.990 --> 00:26:11.490 They don't know what they're delegating. They 00:26:11.490 --> 00:26:13.009 don't know how to bring team members in. They're 00:26:13.009 --> 00:26:15.549 bad leaders. We've got to recognize. I'm not 00:26:15.549 --> 00:26:18.220 the greatest leader in the world either. I've 00:26:18.220 --> 00:26:20.920 got to become a better leader if I want to make 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:23.460 sure that my company scales sustainably. So I'm 00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:25.980 not immune from this. I'm saying we've all got 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:29.440 to lean into that. But I have seen so many solopreneurs 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:32.380 that post on Instagram and act like they're winning. 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.059 But in reality, if you looked, if you got to 00:26:35.059 --> 00:26:36.740 see behind the scenes of their private lives, 00:26:36.859 --> 00:26:38.339 you would see that, no, they're making less than 00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:40.259 a janitor salary and they have massive debts 00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:42.519 and they have these. vas that they're virtually 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:44.119 abusing because they're not paying attention 00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:46.480 to what their needs are either it's a disgusting 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:49.279 process and so i i know that you know how to 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:51.740 win I'm not doubting your ability to win because 00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:54.299 you've done it at Fortune 500 companies. You're 00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:56.339 starting to do this. You hopefully you built 00:26:56.339 --> 00:26:59.039 your business with a cash reserve, you know, 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.140 and you aren't burning yourself out financially. 00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:03.640 But we won't know about your business until you're 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:05.940 10 years in. Then we can talk about where your 00:27:05.940 --> 00:27:08.480 business is at. But before that point, for now, 00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:10.880 it's just humility. It's like, OK, I'm learning 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:14.319 as an entrepreneur. But I'd love to know what 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.660 you've seen as far as team building goes from 00:27:16.660 --> 00:27:20.079 a not a one off situation, but. If teams are 00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.819 building at the three to five million mark, what 00:27:22.819 --> 00:27:26.039 types of team members do they have on with them 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.559 at that stage? What what titles or roles are 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:32.099 being fulfilled? Yeah. So first of all, I want 00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:35.960 to define like the teams. I still believe solopreneurs, 00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:37.640 like you mentioned, if it's just one person, 00:27:37.779 --> 00:27:40.160 I believe they're called entrepreneurs for a 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.640 reason. yes but then when for example like the 00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:45.640 sas companies where you actually have a funding 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.640 team that you can actually go a little bit further 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.519 than just a solopreneur one you have You could 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.880 have mentors. You could have, I don't know, like 00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.160 a different like community that support you. 00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:59.359 You could be like in a different kind of incubator 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.079 that give you different resources. So like when 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:05.019 I say like a team, I really mean like kind of 00:28:05.019 --> 00:28:07.579 structured team like a Fortune 500 company where 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:10.019 we can talk about what exactly the team needs 00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:13.960 to be at the growth stage. So definitely there 00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:16.480 are nuances. I think the answer is it depends, 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:19.200 right? Depends on which verticals you're in. 00:28:19.339 --> 00:28:21.779 Like for Infoprice, it will be different from 00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:25.259 consumer product versus a SaaS product. So depends 00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:28.640 on which stage or depends on which industry you're 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.799 in, the team members will need to be different, 00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:33.259 right? So for example, I have pretty extensive 00:28:33.259 --> 00:28:36.130 consumer background. So for me, for consumer 00:28:36.130 --> 00:28:39.410 business a lot is marketing and sales so you 00:28:39.410 --> 00:28:41.509 definitely will need to have a marketing and 00:28:41.509 --> 00:28:44.250 sales team in place like somebody who does better 00:28:44.250 --> 00:28:47.009 job than you are like in doing marketing and 00:28:47.009 --> 00:28:49.769 in doing sales so having those people in place 00:28:49.769 --> 00:28:52.170 i think a great leadership is always hiring somebody 00:28:52.170 --> 00:28:54.950 can do like a better job than they are so at 00:28:54.950 --> 00:28:57.670 this growth stage you're starting to transition 00:28:57.670 --> 00:29:01.269 into that kind of framework and then being able 00:29:01.269 --> 00:29:04.490 to kind of stack your teams from you know like 00:29:04.490 --> 00:29:08.680 with expertise yeah well i i really like that 00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:10.660 thank you for for putting that out there i'll 00:29:10.660 --> 00:29:14.299 put the and i i one once upon a time i was uh 00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:17.400 arrogant enough to try to build a universal org 00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:20.700 chart And I got into that process like, holy 00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:24.119 crap, wait, hotels and restaurants, pest control, 00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:26.019 they all have different needs. Like there's no 00:29:26.019 --> 00:29:28.099 way you can build a universal one. But there 00:29:28.099 --> 00:29:31.880 are founding roles that absolutely need to be 00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.440 accounted for. And especially if you're in the 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.779 digital world. So I'll name them for you guys, 00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.420 visionaries. You've got the founder, the person 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:41.519 who's, I'll call it the chief visionary officer. 00:29:41.579 --> 00:29:44.779 You get the vision. You got the CEO, a COO, a 00:29:44.779 --> 00:29:51.099 CMO, a CFO, a CLO. a CTO, an HR director, a sales 00:29:51.099 --> 00:29:53.480 director, a fulfillment specialist, a social 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.740 media manager, a designer, a copywriter, an editor, 00:29:56.940 --> 00:29:59.660 a strategist, and then ideally you would have 00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:01.799 as well a chairman of the board and an investor. 00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:05.579 Now, those roles may be divided between two people, 00:30:05.619 --> 00:30:08.140 but anybody who thinks they are cool enough to 00:30:08.140 --> 00:30:10.440 do all that by themselves, the market knows you 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:12.680 can't. and you at the end of the day will find 00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:14.819 out that you can't either i don't like to guide 00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:17.259 people off of cliffs i like to teach people sustainability 00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:20.339 but then there's specialty roles so to put into 00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:23.000 perspective kathy's point if you have a restaurant 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.240 you also need a chef um right you're probably 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:28.059 going to need a host team member you might need 00:30:28.059 --> 00:30:30.279 an expo you might need a waiter waitress you 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:32.640 might need a bartender right so there's it goes 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.359 above and beyond this oversimplification that 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.279 is called get rich quick we don't support that 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:42.480 envision pros We will not help you move towards 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:46.039 an era or towards a reality that's not going 00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:47.880 to help. Maybe AI can fix some of that, too. 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.039 But guess what? You're going to need to assign 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:54.140 your AI agents to be able to do those roles as 00:30:54.140 --> 00:30:59.859 well. So let's go into the next piece of the 00:30:59.859 --> 00:31:02.940 triangle itself in that bigger level, Kathy. 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:05.759 So at the enterprise level, what is diagnosing 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:10.279 product? market and offer fit look like? Yeah, 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:12.720 that's a great question. And it comes into my, 00:31:12.819 --> 00:31:15.779 like really my wheelhouse, right? I've seen enterprises 00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:19.819 like in and out for over a decade. I think enterprise, 00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:22.619 it depends on which level, like you can break 00:31:22.619 --> 00:31:26.880 it down into Inc 500, like Inc 500 or Fortune 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:31.200 500, like a different level of the company. When 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.279 you're still relatively on the smaller side of 00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:36.720 the enterprise, maybe mid -market into enterprise 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:40.400 range, you're still... kind of navigate what 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:43.079 the scale feels like and then how to build the 00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.480 team that actually improve the overall efficiency 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.920 because sometimes when the system is not solid 00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:51.259 a lot of times you feel like a lot of employees 00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:53.599 you're higher than eating up your cash flow but 00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:55.759 not really produce the results you want right 00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:58.480 so those will be like some sort of kind of like 00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:01.240 bottlenecks or even like diagnosis so you can 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.299 start looking into into the team efficiency building 00:32:04.299 --> 00:32:06.819 barometers building like all the different structures 00:32:06.819 --> 00:32:09.190 to make sure like the team is running as good 00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:12.269 as they can. When you go into the even bigger 00:32:12.269 --> 00:32:15.170 enterprise level, like some of the companies 00:32:15.170 --> 00:32:18.750 I've stayed with, it's almost too big to fail. 00:32:18.970 --> 00:32:22.569 So it becomes a different type of game is, you 00:32:22.569 --> 00:32:24.750 know, the team culture, the company cultures 00:32:24.750 --> 00:32:27.170 and the brand perceptions. How do you want to 00:32:27.170 --> 00:32:30.099 continue showing up in front of consumers? or 00:32:30.099 --> 00:32:32.200 in front of your customers to continue to get 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:34.619 your business. So it's a little different type 00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:36.700 of games that we're playing, but I know most 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:38.700 of your audiences are probably not going to be 00:32:38.700 --> 00:32:40.660 like in your Fortune 500 or the company level. 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.960 So the ghost bottlenecks are like a different 00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:47.480 here, but what we can do. But yeah, let's, I 00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:50.279 think some of them might, again, so one of the 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.240 things about podcasts, this is great for visionaries 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.299 to know too, these segments that we talk about, 00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:58.089 they're redistributable. and there's something 00:32:58.089 --> 00:33:00.809 that ai is going to be looking at as well right 00:33:00.809 --> 00:33:06.190 so if you speak to the fortune 500 the the the 00:33:06.190 --> 00:33:10.210 ones that are crushing it and you come up with 00:33:10.210 --> 00:33:12.849 a plan and a value that's super super valuable 00:33:12.849 --> 00:33:16.349 that's going to pop up in ai someday and those 00:33:16.349 --> 00:33:17.990 people are going to find it and be like oh gosh 00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:20.990 i want to know what this kathy lady has to has 00:33:20.990 --> 00:33:23.710 to say so i would love to hear it um if you can 00:33:23.710 --> 00:33:26.710 focus in on one of those areas one of those diet 00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:30.059 um dynamics whatever level you want to and then 00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:33.319 just clearly articulate what's the product diagnosis 00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:35.779 look like what's the market diagnosis what's 00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:38.160 the offer diagnostic that would be awesome yeah 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:42.049 so The diagnose for Fortune 500 company, like 00:33:42.049 --> 00:33:44.930 constantly you hear like a reorg, right? That's 00:33:44.930 --> 00:33:48.670 basically diagnosed. You hire a consulting firm 00:33:48.670 --> 00:33:51.390 and coming either McKinsey or BCG and diagnose 00:33:51.390 --> 00:33:54.069 a whole organizational structure, like really 00:33:54.069 --> 00:33:57.329 drill down the efficiency between teams, like 00:33:57.329 --> 00:34:00.130 including your team members, like your functions. 00:34:00.329 --> 00:34:02.869 Is that really aligning with your business strategy? 00:34:03.230 --> 00:34:05.509 How does that look like in the next three to 00:34:05.509 --> 00:34:08.289 five years? And is your current team structure 00:34:08.289 --> 00:34:11.030 aligned? with your future three to five years 00:34:11.030 --> 00:34:13.829 so that's some sort of diagnosis that consulting 00:34:13.829 --> 00:34:16.309 management consulting firms are doing right like 00:34:16.309 --> 00:34:19.130 and then you're drilling down into specific roles 00:34:19.130 --> 00:34:22.730 and responsibilities um sometimes even time tracking 00:34:22.730 --> 00:34:25.730 like how how many hours that each team members 00:34:25.730 --> 00:34:29.389 are actually allocating to specific project prioritization 00:34:29.389 --> 00:34:31.550 like the list of a project are those projects 00:34:31.550 --> 00:34:34.510 really needed to like aligning with your three 00:34:34.510 --> 00:34:37.050 to five year growth are those being able to trim 00:34:37.050 --> 00:34:39.849 down and then if those are trimmed down are the 00:34:39.849 --> 00:34:42.170 member associated with those projects still stay 00:34:42.170 --> 00:34:45.489 or not so that's where we hear a lot of layoffs 00:34:45.489 --> 00:34:48.690 reorganization from like fortune i love that 00:34:48.690 --> 00:34:51.889 but kathy how do you diagnose the winning triangle 00:34:51.889 --> 00:34:54.289 that's what we're talking about and so how do 00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:57.230 you diagnose the product the market and the offer 00:34:57.230 --> 00:34:59.829 in those companies yeah sorry if i don't make 00:34:59.829 --> 00:35:02.429 that clear but i think the winning triangle is 00:35:02.429 --> 00:35:05.550 not really like existing in fortune 500 company 00:35:05.550 --> 00:35:09.130 because you're already you already have the product 00:35:09.130 --> 00:35:11.550 market fit. Here you're playing the different 00:35:11.550 --> 00:35:14.010 game. You just need to, you know, build brand 00:35:14.010 --> 00:35:17.170 awareness, like improve consumer conception where 00:35:17.170 --> 00:35:20.590 you spend a lot of pay media in marketing. So 00:35:20.590 --> 00:35:23.530 here it really is no longer like a winning triangle 00:35:23.530 --> 00:35:26.409 in my perspective. I may have a different perspective, 00:35:26.610 --> 00:35:29.889 but it's a different game at an enterprise level. 00:35:30.369 --> 00:35:32.789 Okay, cool. No, that's helpful. Now I understand 00:35:32.789 --> 00:35:36.130 it. So perfect. Is there any audience that you 00:35:36.130 --> 00:35:38.719 want to... dive back into based on the winning 00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:41.000 triangle, or is there another process that you 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:43.230 want to dive into? yes so i think the winning 00:35:43.230 --> 00:35:47.409 triangle um is mostly uh suitable for the pre 00:35:47.409 --> 00:35:49.929 -c and the c company where you still navigate 00:35:49.929 --> 00:35:53.690 that product market so being able to solidify 00:35:53.690 --> 00:35:56.329 that winning triangle and building your foundation 00:35:56.329 --> 00:35:59.489 is critical for the future success and then once 00:35:59.489 --> 00:36:01.789 you hit the growth stage of course like it's 00:36:01.789 --> 00:36:04.150 going to be dialed down like you will have to 00:36:04.150 --> 00:36:07.070 focus on something like building teams leaderships 00:36:07.070 --> 00:36:09.130 company cultures and the different kind of things 00:36:09.130 --> 00:36:13.230 but um i truly believe that entrepreneurs come 00:36:13.230 --> 00:36:15.809 with the clarity and making sure that you understand 00:36:15.809 --> 00:36:18.269 what you're building and if your consumer will 00:36:18.269 --> 00:36:21.590 like it. And also your scalability within that 00:36:21.590 --> 00:36:26.070 market is also very critical. I'm a strong believer 00:36:26.070 --> 00:36:30.650 of numbers. So I believe in addition to building 00:36:30.650 --> 00:36:33.989 your winning triangle, once you have that solidified. 00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.699 i would start like focus on projections right 00:36:37.699 --> 00:36:40.280 like financial numbers making sure you have enough 00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:43.940 runway um because one of the biggest failing 00:36:43.940 --> 00:36:47.000 reason for startups is you run up money you run 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:49.719 up one wrong way and you cannot be sustainable 00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.440 in your business anymore so know your numbers 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.800 being able to build a projection um that's really 00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:59.750 tracking towards your future success Super, super 00:36:59.750 --> 00:37:02.849 important. And I think too many of us as founders 00:37:02.849 --> 00:37:05.170 and visionaries forget the importance of the 00:37:05.170 --> 00:37:08.489 numbers or downplay it. And if we do that, we're 00:37:08.489 --> 00:37:11.050 not being wise stewards of our brand. We're not 00:37:11.050 --> 00:37:12.969 putting ourselves in a position of stability. 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:15.619 And that's not a good thing for those who are 00:37:15.619 --> 00:37:18.500 internally working with us or those who are hoping 00:37:18.500 --> 00:37:20.480 that our company will be able to help the market 00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.960 itself. So, Kathy Fang, thank you so much. This 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:24.619 has been awesome. I want to make sure you get 00:37:24.619 --> 00:37:26.659 to enjoy South by Southwest while you're there. 00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:30.179 For sure. Enjoy. Austin is one of my homes. Austin 00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:33.820 in San Antonio, Texas. And so I miss it. I'm 00:37:33.820 --> 00:37:35.980 grateful for it. I hope you enjoy it fully. I 00:37:35.980 --> 00:37:38.119 hope my people take care of you. Vision Pros, 00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:40.099 if any of you want to come on this show and be 00:37:40.099 --> 00:37:42.019 with us in the top right corner, visionproslive 00:37:42.019 --> 00:37:44.590 .com. Click the button that says be our guest. 00:37:44.730 --> 00:37:47.590 You can also find myself or Kathy Fang simply 00:37:47.590 --> 00:37:49.670 by Googling us and going and connecting with 00:37:49.670 --> 00:37:51.730 us on LinkedIn. If you have questions or comments, 00:37:51.909 --> 00:37:54.130 drop them below so we can take a look at that 00:37:54.130 --> 00:37:55.630 and we'll be happy to help you out with your 00:37:55.630 --> 00:37:57.809 growth. We'll see you in the next episode. Thank 00:37:57.809 --> 00:37:59.809 you for being here today. I'm really happy that 00:37:59.809 --> 00:38:01.849 you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking 00:38:01.849 --> 00:38:05.090 forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes 00:38:05.090 --> 00:38:06.889 continue to move forward. This is going to get 00:38:06.889 --> 00:38:09.469 more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement 00:38:09.469 --> 00:38:11.610 as well. We'll invite people to participate in 00:38:11.610 --> 00:38:13.760 the show. And thank you for giving us your time 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.059 and attention. Have an excellent time building 00:38:16.059 --> 00:38:17.880 out your vision and becoming a vision.