Hello and good morning. I'm Javanka McGee, co
-host of Vision Pros Live. Thank you so much
for joining me this morning. I, of course, am
going to ask you to tell me your first, your
last name, the name of your company, and also
where you're located. All right. Sounds good.
Good to be on your show, Javanka. My name is
Maile. Last name is Astale. I'm the CEO and the
founder of SmartVines Marketing. We're based
out of Detroit, Michigan in the Detroit metropolitan
area. And we've been here for 38 years. Did y
'all hear that? 38 years. You don't hear about
a lot of people being around for 38 years, which
means, Maile, that you've made it through. and
successfully gone through a lot of things to
include what we talked about before. And then
also not to mention COVID. Can you just tell
me, how did you survive all of this? 38 years.
Yeah. Well, we did really well until about 2009.
And I was talking about that before the show
started. And so we have experienced two very
significant. uh you know ultimately financial
impacts uh that businesses will go through and
the first was the financial crisis from 2009
which lasted through 2010 a very difficult time
especially with detroit being ground zero and
you've got the big three automakers in our backyard
all filing for bankruptcy and so yeah we that
was one that was a very hard lesson to learn
it was also a hard lesson to get through not
to mention you know trying to recover starting
in 2011. the other major impact that we ran into
was the pandemic however this this time around
uh we were definitely better prepared um in terms
of how you know we we changed how we handle our
finances after the financial crisis and so we
were better prepared and we were able to you
know get you know kind of coast through the pandemic
without major issue. Now, did we have a slowdown
in customer activity? The answer is yes, obviously
we did. I mean, I think everybody did. Did we
have a slowdown in, you know, prospects, lead
generation, all of that slowed down, no question.
But because we were financially prepared for
another disaster, no matter when it might come
or how it comes, we actually took the time during
the pandemic to rebrand ourselves. and recreate
our message and because we're an award -winning
marketing agency in the state of Michigan we
also had consulting resources that we were tapped
into during that time and so the logo you see
behind me is actually a new one since 2021 and
our colors are different our websites changed
we kind of went you know we took the time during
that whatever one year period or so when things
were slow and the team just got together and
everybody took a different piece of the puzzle.
And we worked on, you know, our message, our
marketing activities afterwards. So yeah, I mean,
I think, you know, you have to experience it
sometimes to be able to figure out, well, what
do you do? You know, how do you get through it?
But having gone through the financial crisis,
the pandemic was a breeze. Yes, I bet, I bet.
And I love the fact that you mentioned That you
took some time to rebrand yourself. That's one
of the big things nowadays is branding yourself.
and making sure that that brand follows you,
right? I do want to ask, this is very randomly,
you mentioned earlier that you're the CEO and
the founder. I don't think I've ever asked this
question of anyone else, but with your experience,
how do you determine how to label your role in
your business when you are the CEO and the founder?
Yeah, so I think part of it's my age. I think.
in the early days when i was much younger let's
go back 30 years right i was ceo and uh as far
as you know are the different firms that we had
under our corporate umbrella um but i can tell
you that as i've reached now i'm 62 as i've reached
this an older age i'm slowly moving to just calling
myself founder okay progression That also translates
to backing out of the business a little bit and
let the team just run on their own. Sounds like
you got an exit plan. I don't have an exit plan.
I'm not ready to stop anything. But I am suggesting,
and maybe I need to pull out of the day -to -day
activities even further. I mean, believe me,
the team I have is great. They can operate. They
know they have the authority and the responsibility
to do whatever it takes to get the job done.
They don't need me micromanaging them. That's
not, you know, that's a different issue. But
by the same token, I'm still involved in the
day -to -day activities of what's going on. And
so the question is, well, can I pull out of that
as well? And then just stick to that founder
role. Yes, yes. And it's because it's... When
it is said, it's very interesting. It's like
when people start a business and you're an entrepreneur
or a solopreneur, I've often wondered, like,
what do you call yourself? Where do you start
at? So that's why it's so very random. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. That's my idea of how I would describe
it. Like I said, with the years of experience,
mainly, I'm like, this is the best time to ask
the best person. Because I thought I was super
going to get this technical, this on the Richter
scale as you go through these years. This is
what you like. But I love that. So tell me more
about Smart Finds Marketing. Our firm is what
I would effectively say is a 360 marketing agency.
I've got a team of 25. We've got technical, creative,
marketing, writers. Everybody's in Detroit. The
team has been with me since 2011 post financial
crisis, and we all get along very well and work
very well together. So, as you can imagine, because
we're in Detroit, you know, we work with manufacturers
and if you're in Detroit and doing anything,
you're going to be. working uh in the automotive
sector so that's your starting point um but beyond
that um you know we've we've kind of migrated
especially post pandemic into b2b primarily okay
b2c prior to the pandemic was a lot of fun we
you know obviously generated a lot of revenue
but it was also a huge headache and when the
financial crisis came we were left holding the
bag because of the b2c clients yes whereas With
the B2B, I don't have that exposure, especially
with the advertising budgets and so on and so
forth. It's a more direct approach. It allows
for time to show results. It's not as stressful
either. And so and I think that also helped get
us through the pandemic, not having B2C clients.
And so, you know, from our standpoint, there's
nothing we don't do anymore. We, you know, take
a project, take a problem that a client, you
know, a company might have relative to their
branding, their messaging, their marketing efforts,
their emails, their advertising, whatever. Obviously,
you know, we can come in and be somebody's digital
marketing department, literally. We, especially
with our large corporate clients, we actually
are in support. of an existing marketing team.
So they usually have anywhere from three to five
people. It's not enough. The three to five people
alone, especially in a large corporation, can
only handle internal marketing efforts, let alone
external. We come in and we support them with
the external work while they handle the internal.
So that's the other scenario. And the third scenario
that we run into is we come in as a fractional
CMO. And that's a little bit different than being
the digital marketing department for somebody
or the marketing department. Fractional CMO says
we're directly working with somebody else of
authority and we need to get permission for the
work that we're doing. Whereas in the case where
we come in and we become the marketing department,
we're not asking anybody. The CEO has given us
the authority. We're running with it, right?
So there's a little difference in terms of how
we become the strategic partner for a company.
um those are kind of the three different levels
we get into um do we work with startup yes usually
they're well funded and we can come in the door
and uh you know work with them on a variety of
elements in terms of starting their company and
moving them forward so that's uh another area
that we've worked on um but uh you know i think
the last thing i'm gonna say is as you can imagine
with 38 years out there, and especially with
an internet group that we started in 94, we've
gone through a lot of changes. And I think that's
the other important part of this of this industry
and of business in today's world is how do you
adapt to the changes? I don't want to take up
all your time in your podcast, but I could talk
about that a whole even further. Yes, yes. And,
you know, you use some acronyms and I won't say
what they are, but do me a favor for those that
are listening and are just starting up wanting
to get where you are today. Share with them what
B2B is, B2C is, and CMO. Okay. So B2B is business
to business, right? So business to business marketing
is a different approach and different strategy.
Whereas you have business to consumer, which
is the B2C segment, and business to consumer,
first of all, in order to get it done, you need
a larger budget. Everything has to be done every
day. And it has to be changed. It's a very rigorous
strategy. It's a very rigorous activity and it's
nonstop. You don't get to hold, you can't even
hold your breath. Okay. So B2C is different.
CMO is chief marketing officer, which is usually.
who the people we are that, you know, that we
work with at our clients or they're the senior
VP of marketing, but chief marketing officer
is the next most important element in working
with businesses. Thank you. Thank you so much.
I love the fact that you, you do have so much
and I'm just going to bring this back up. So
if you're listening. You guys hear him say 1994?
Someone that has gone through something to get
through to where he is. And it's funny because
your name says a lot to me. Smart finds. You
know, it's not like you started something and
you knew exactly what you, you know, what direction
you were going into. I'm sure it was this, you
know, this up and down type of road, as you mentioned.
2009 and then the pandemic. As you continue going
through and making it, what, you got two years
till you hit 40? Your vision in 94 is completely
from your vision today. So just do me a favor
and tell me about your vision. Yeah, I mean,
you're right. I mean, when I started, I was in
a whole other world at that time. You know, I'm
40 years younger back in those days. And the
vision was with a lot of energy that I had in
there is just to build a company, grow a company,
and just make a lot of money, right? And not
to say that that has changed per se, but as I've
gotten older, my vision is changing relative
to being a leader. And I think that's the difference
in where I am today. And I'm saying that's my
personal vision. I'm not suggesting this is my
company vision. You know, the company continues
to focus on what we're going to do. But again,
just as much as I told you how my description
of CEO to founder has changed over the years,
right? The same thing goes with my vision, and
especially at a... at a personal level. In other
words, you know, how do I bring out the best
in others, for example, right? How do I help
people and organizations, you know, to see, to
take them to another level, to take them to limits
or solve problems? Yeah. You know, my vision
tends to go in that direction. You know, it's
about strategy. It's about storytelling. It's
about technology, right? And how do you pull
all these together, not just in the business
environment, but then in the digital environment?
You know, let's face it, in the last three years,
we're going on almost three years. We've been,
you know, we're in the AI world. We're being
bombarded with AI from multiple different directions.
And this goes back to this idea that I mentioned
earlier. You have to be able to adapt to changes.
You know, getting, staying stuck in one place
and saying, I'm comfortable here. It doesn't
work. It just doesn't. You have to find a way
to move forward. Yes. And adapting isn't. Isn't
easy at all. I also believe, strongly believe
that being an entrepreneur or business owner
is not for the weak because then adapting becomes
probably even more challenging. It's I love that
you mentioned that because you don't get to where
you are just with the same vision. Right. And
I love how you said, you know, the energy that
you have to, you know, get my own business and
make a lot of money, because I believe that that's
how a lot of people start off. But what I love
mainly is how you transition into wanting to
be a leader. And when you said that, my body
just went into calm mode because I love the fact
that. You may have made all the money. You do
have a business. But being a leader puts you
in such a different position of where your mission
begins to just grow and evolve. And so, of course,
I have one more question for you. What's your
why? What's my why? That's a good question. What's
my why? And I don't know if I have an answer
on that. What's my why? If I had to think about
that, because as you were talking, I had other
things in my mind. Yeah. I said, I'm a hero.
Because, you know, it's interesting. And the
reason why I did that, because there is you,
you speak with passion. You're not just speaking
just to. Just to tell people, hey, just become
a business owner and get your marketing together
and have this amazing brand. You didn't start
this in 1994 and end up to where you are right
now without a why. So I was like. Yeah. So, yeah,
I think, you know, I think we have to keep in
mind that I think a lot of it has to deal deal
do with the person. OK. And the person in my
case is I'm an early adopter. Yeah. OK. All right.
And so if you if anybody's ever read the book
Crossing the Chasm, by all means, please do read
it if you haven't, because it is about change.
Yeah. And over the years, this is where, you
know, I have kind of built up around my what
I call my four A's of marketing or if you want
to call it four A's of change. You need to anticipate
change, which usually is the easiest for everybody.
The second one is the hardest. It's accepting
change. You can sit there and say, yes, I can
accept change, but I will tell you most people
don't. And they will fret, fuss, and fume because
of that change. And while they're fretting, fussing,
and fuming, their competitors are moving ahead
of them. There is no version of waiting for something
to prove itself for you to say, yes, now I'm
ready. i'm sorry that just doesn't work in today's
world you have to just run with it try it out
see test it out you know you won't lose i guarantee
you you will have learned something so you can
move on to the next change or the next item so
accepting that change isn't tends to be an emotional
uh uh emotional of impact on a lot of people
rather than a logical one now if you're gonna
get past that point then it's about adapting
to the changes right in others what do you need
to do to move yourself forward with that change
and the last one tends to be the easiest which
is adopting the change and implementing the changes
so those are my four a's okay and you know if
i take those four a's um and if i you know if
i had to answer your why as i had a little bit
of time to think now i'm going to say that i
am really there and always have been about challenging
outdated thinking and that comes as a direct
response with me being an early adopter you can't
be an early adopter and um not challenge outdated
thinking because the bottom line is the world
has changed we're 200 years where the world was
50 years 100 200 years ago is a whole lot different
than where we are today and so trying to bring
that past and implemented in today's world and
into the future doesn't work. The only thing
you can do with the past is learn from it. So
my why is about challenging outdated thinking,
introducing something creative, practical, right?
Essentially trying, it's about forward thinking
at the end of the day. Yeah. And you said anticipate,
accept. Anticipate change, accept change. Adapt.
Adapt. Yep. And adapt. Adopt. Adopt. Adopt and
adapt. Two different words. And I love how you
just, man, I really, really, truly appreciate
this because it definitely helps those that are
just in that mindset because anticipating, I'm
going to be honest and I'm going to put myself
out there, Maylee, I never even thought about.
doing that right because that's inevitable right
it changes inevitable but you don't think about
anticipating what type of change just change
in general right so i guess it's in my mind as
i'm thinking here it's not the it's the uncertainty
that you anticipate because of the simple fact
that it's it's it's inevitable you know so that's
really good i i really like that and and i mean
think of anticipate change you know if i Turn
this around into the Boy Scouts motto, right?
And my youngest son went up to being an Eagle
Scout. Boy Scouts motto is be prepared, right?
Anticipate change is that. Be prepared. And as
long as you can at least ask yourself questions
and use those questions to answer yourself, right?
That's the anticipate change process, essentially.
I hate to say go to chat GPT, but let's face
it. I was thinking the same thing. Use GPT. I
don't care what you do. Just ask them something
or someone or yes. Right, exactly. Find some
ideas up. And it's, like I said, it's interesting
because if I am sitting here and being very honest
and not thinking about that first step. I believe
that those that are listening, if you start that
off, I think that's even a day to day kind of
statement or four A's that you can use every
day when you wake up, anticipate change, you
know, accept it and adapt and adopt. You can
use that every day. So if you're listening, use
it every day. You know what I mean? But then
also, Maylee, I don't want to keep you any longer.
Please share with myself and everyone else. the
website that they can possibly reach you at,
get more information and your social media handles?
Sure. So first of all, the company's website
is smartfindsmarketing .com. That's the easy
part. If you want to reach me, the best place
to reach me is on LinkedIn. I have 22 ,000 really
close friends. So I guarantee I'm the only Malia
Hassel in LinkedIn, so it shouldn't be hard to
find me. And do tag me on your posts. I don't
care who you are. I don't care if we're connected
or not. I'm happy to react and comment with hashtags,
something significant in that post. It'll help
others expand their reach. Ultimately, that's
what's... social communities are all about is
trying to share and help each other out. So that
would be my other suggestion in terms of reaching.
I love that spoken like a leader. He said, most
people ask the question, can I tag you or feel
bad like myself? Like, oh, I didn't ask. Can
I tag? I love that. Just tag me. And that just
means that you have definitely. define what a
leader is. And that's the unselfish thought process
about just your business, but everybody else.
So I love that. Meili, thank you so much for
choosing. Thank you. It was great to be on your
show, Jovanka. Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision
Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your
reactions as these episodes continue to move
forward. This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show
and thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision
and becoming a vision pro yourself.