All right. Let's see here. We are good to go.
Now, we have an absolute rock star on the show
today in Philip Shett. Philip Shett is the founder
of Wave9. He specializes in a business term that
I see so few SMBs and digital founders and agencies
and legacy builders even know about. Yet it's
one of the greatest secrets that unlocked massive
success for Intuit and Google. One of the very
first investors in Google is one of the original
creators of OKRs is what we're talking about.
Objectives, key results. We're going to be talking
about goals. We're going to talk about unhealthy
relationships with goals. We're going to talk
about how to make sure that you ultimately have
the best chance possible of succeeding as a visionary.
I'll bring my perspective. He'll, of course,
bring his. We might bring the gloves on at some
point and duke it out over goals. But no, I really
don't think so. Philip, you have absolutely impressed
me with just your demeanor. the way you've set
up your website, the way Wave9 is going about
helping more than 300 brands ultimately set goals
the right way and achieve success. So welcome
to Vision Pros Live. Thanks for being here today.
Thank you so much for the kind words and thank
you so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely,
Philip. So let's go to the beginning a little
bit. How did you get into this whole OKR space
and goal setting? What were things like before?
the 300 companies that you've helped succeed
yeah you know i so very quickly people will hear
my my accent wonder where i'm from so i'm german
and i moved to the states in 2014 moved to california
moved to silicon valley and i was actually sent
by a german company to silicon valley to explore
what people are doing there and what great ideas
they're working on i was called an innovation
scout that was my role and so the idea was okay
they sent me there it was 2014 and i figured
out okay hey they have this great idea and then
maybe we can implement it in germany or maybe
we can buy it or maybe we can we can do something
similar and so that was that was the whole idea
of of my role and very quickly i realized that
You know, Silicon Valley is awesome, but it's
not that the ideas are that much different to
the ideas in Berlin or the ideas in London or
Paris or Barcelona. Like people have great ideas
there too. But what is different is the ability
to execute on those ideas. And then I got like,
okay, maybe my whole like belief is wrong here.
And it isn't about the ideas. It is about something
else. and one little piece that was different
is that people were setting very different goals
on the one hand they were much more ambitious
but they were also much more inclusive much much
transparent much shorter term often not set for
too long but rather for shorter time horizons
much more agile much more with a high urgency
for for action and so with a high bias towards
that too and so that's That's at the end how
I explored gold setting. And then I met, well,
also very typical Silicon Valley story. I met
Deidre Pagnon, the founder of Workboard. Workboard
was a very small, but already very interesting
gold setting platform, a SaaS company. They scaled.
raised 150 million in venture capital and we
became their implementation partner and so that's
how we were able to scale alongside a venture
capital start well backed company and so that's
how i explored okrs and that's how i became very
very proficient in them because we were just
able to well make a lot of mistakes in the first
few dozen and then iterate and learn every time
I love that. And I'm going to be super selfish
on this for all of us as vision pros. How do
we become proficient at using OKRs? What are
some of the big secrets, Philip? Yeah. Luckily,
OKRs, and for everyone who hasn't really heard
the term, sorry, I'm always forgetting to introduce
it. It's objectives and key results. It's very
simple. So that's the good news. It's very simple.
all you need and you don't need to implement
it at 300 companies to become proficient right
so there's a lot you can learn and you can do
better right away and you can implement in your
in your organization no matter the size right
even if you're just setting goals for yourself
right some of this might already help but if
you have a few employees and a few team members
i'm sure this can help so Objectives and key
results, very simple methodology. At the end,
you have to have some objectives. That's a qualitative
statement and some key results. That's how you
measure you're actually making progress. And
so how are you going to get good at it? Let's
maybe start with a few things that are typical
for goal setting but don't really help. So first
of all, you... You just need to start setting
goals. Okay, so that's very, very like super
basic, but many of us don't even have goals or
aren't really writing them down or just, oh,
and today it's this and then tomorrow or next
week it's something else, right? So first you
want to have very simplistic, a structured process
where once a year and then maybe every quarter
you are going to set some OKRs. And so that's...
that's very important because look before i discovered
okay as i was also setting goals but then i was
setting goals sometimes in february sometimes
in april and then again in in may or june right
and then and then i was forgetting about all
of those very very quickly too so you wanna you
wanna set goals and then if you have a team don't
set goals for your team set it with them so i
think that's something That's really close to
my heart. I'm still old enough to have experienced
workplaces where at the beginning of the year,
the manager came in and said, hey, these are
our goals for the year. And now let's go tackle
them. And that was typically as energizing as,
well, decaffeinated coffee. And really you want
a goal setting process to be a double shot of
espresso, a really good one. And you do that
by involving your team. And so that's a slower
process for sure. If I set goals for my organization,
I'm done in an hour. That's super quick. If I
involve everyone, then suddenly I have discussions.
Suddenly I have some healthy conflict, maybe
even some unhealthy conflict. I have all of those
discussions. I have to explain things. sometimes
i like that and sometimes i hate it right oh
don't ask me why this is important it's just
important that's that's sometimes they like it
and sometimes they hate it exactly so you you
but but you you gotta you gotta have you have
to involve your team nothing creates like nothing
you can't really you can't really create motivation
you can just destroy motivation and kill motivation
and people and so And the quickest way to do
that is to give them goals that they had no say
in, that they don't believe in, that they don't
think are the right goals, that they don't think
are valuable. And so, yes, at the end, once you've
set goals, you need to disagree and commit, right?
You need to have everyone in the organization
commit to those goals. So that's where, even
if you have conflict, that's where it needs to
end. But you have to involve them. And then you
want to also make those goals transparent. And
so that's sometimes a bit of a culture shock
for some organizations. But when we set goals,
it's clear that they are visible for everyone
and that the achievement of those goals is also
visible. And so that's transparency that I think
is beneficial for organizations. Because at the
end, well, in good times as in bad times, you
want to share how the organization is doing and
that transparency is typically helpful. And so
you want to involve people and you want to, yeah,
you want to make those goals transparent and
also the achievement. There are a few more things,
but I want to make sure that, yeah, I give you
room to talk too. Oh, I love it. Oh, no, I love
it. I love it. Thank you for that too. One of
the things that you said that struck me today
in a way that's going to help the rest of my
life. In addition to, of course, OKRs and frameworks,
you said you can't really create motivation,
but you can destroy motivation. And as somebody
who has struggled with that process of, you know,
as much as I think I have an impact on creating
motivation sometimes, I'm so much better at destroying
it. There's so much wisdom and maturity in what
you said that I can apply right away and be like,
dang, if I just get a little bit more out of
the way as a leader, right, if I just allow my
team to speak a little bit more, if I use a line,
tell me more about that, right, and let them
facilitate their thing, I'm more likely to create
motivation just by ensuring I don't destroy it
than if I try to become some type of jester or
facilitator of it. thoughts on that 100 and so
when we when we set goals in our organization
i do it i i try and set very few goals like very
few okay of course there's a revenue goal and
a bit of a profitability goal and then there
are a few more that are for me important and
how we get there but then i let the team decide
on a ton of almost all of the other goals and
so and that was that was very difficult for me
to learn too um in the beginning i was a very
controlling ceo i was a very controlling founder
i was basically in every project i was involved
in every decision and i mean i couldn't do that
for a very long time and i couldn't do that for
yeah forever and it also led to the organization
just being very slow and so a way better approach
is to set fewer expectations and then let the
team run a ton more and now i would say my a
players have really stepped up and have really
filled a lot of the vacuum that I left by not
filling everything. And it also became clear
who were my absolute C players, right? I definitely
had some of those too, but I was very often creating
an environment where that wasn't very obvious
because I was there anyway, right? I was in every
call, I was there anyway. And so you create a
better organization by... empowering your people
and goal setting is a great way to do that. I
love that. It's so true. I see what you're saying.
It exposes the C players because if you take
a back seat and we keep our mouth shut as the
founders and we allow our team members to go
after the goals, you can see who steps up, you
can see who shies away, you can see who doesn't
engage in the conversation. Those are some of
the things you're alluding to, right? 100%. you
of course have to differentiate between someone
who's just shy and an introvert and someone who
is shying away from responsibility, right? So
you have to work in different mechanisms, not
only in an open group discussion where obviously
some people will feel a bit less comfortable
bringing up their ideas. But if you have a process
that's... That's a workshop, but then it's also
maybe some async collaboration and a Google Doc.
And maybe you give different mechanisms to make
your voice heard. If you do that, then it will
become very clear who's actually interested in
bringing the company forward and who is not.
I'll stack two resources to help on this. One,
Patrick Lencioni's book, The Five Dysfunctions
of a Team. And if a leader does a great job of
applying what's taught in that book. it's impossible
not to unlock a sense of healthy conflict and
discussion. Two, and even easier to apply methodology,
Jeff Bezos of Amazon, in his company meetings,
they have the person who is newest to the team
speak first. And I thought that was just brilliant
and awesome because if the person, if everybody
else speaks first, that person feels so intimidated
and out of place by the end of, they don't really
feel like they can contribute anything of value.
But if you start with the person who's newest
and who's most shy, then it, and if that's the
rule that's set, then nobody can step away from
saying like, well, I, I, I have to at least say,
I don't want to say anything. And so it does
create some type of engagement. So those are
two little secrets that. I'll put out there that
I've heard along the way. We're going to come
back. We're going to take a little break, but
I'm also going to reveal one other thing that
you said that really hit me. You talked about
how as a founder, you still stay at the helm,
perhaps sometimes or maybe always, of the goals
related to revenue and profitability. And I think
that's a very important reality because I think
sometimes in my past as a leader, I was so eager
to get the team involved. And so eager to do
the right thing as a leader that I ended up shirking
some of the responsibility that my team needed
me to ultimately weigh in on. Because, you know,
imagine if you've got somebody who's new or shy
or hasn't had a lot of leadership opportunity
and some, you know, overbearing founder comes
like, okay, it's your turn to set the revenue
goal. It's like, what? Like, I don't want to
be responsible for that. I don't want to be the
one accountable to make that happen. I love that
you talked about how you still stay in charge
of those two dynamics and probably others. So
there's a lot of emotional intelligence baked
into this as well. We're going to come back.
We're going to reveal more about what it is that
we're doing with OKRs, what types of results
we've been able to drive with them, some of the
ins and outs of things that you might warn companies
to not overlook or to not. to not lose sight
of in the process. And we'll just keep doubling
down on this value, Philip. So thanks for everything
you've shared so far. And we'll see you guys
on the other side. We'll be right back. All right.
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Callum.
I'm your show host. We'll be doing interviews
for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders
who are building fantastic visions out there.
Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome into another
show of Vision Pros Live. I'm your show host,
Jackson Callum, founder and CEO of First Class
Business, and I'm excited to have Philip Shett
on board today. We're talking about goals that
create energy, not burnout. We're going to be
talking about, you know, we've got a subtitle
on this, what 300 companies, 300 plus companies
have taught Philip and I about setting the right
goals, but that's just counting his companies.
too. And on my side, it's, it's pretty close
to the same, but we've had different levels of
companies too. He's worked with companies that
have done, that have raised 50 million in capital
through VC backed. And the only VC backed company
that I can recall that I worked with was own
local back when it was seen interactive and we
raised 10 million with with Y Combinator. And
so we got to learn some really cool things, but
I was either young, dumb and immature and didn't
hear about the OKRs back then, or Well, we didn't
actually measure based on OKRs and work with
them. And while we were able to get lucky to
raise that $10 million and move the brand forward,
there was so much that we could have done better.
And it would have been neat to know Philip back
when we were starting that. It wasn't until years
later. That was in 2009. And it wasn't until
2017, I believe it was, eight years later, where
somebody brought up OKRs. And I thought, no,
I'm sorry. 2017, we touched on it at Irrational
Marketing. Forgot about that. I need to fast
forward further. It was 2021 before. So 11, 12
years later before somebody meaningfully brought
up OKRs that I respected and was like, hey, we
should really be implementing these at the company.
And I started to really pay attention to that.
It's only five years ago or really probably four
years ago where I started to say, you know what?
I need to look into this. And as I did. I uncovered
some super powerful truths about how Google is
building their brand, how Intel builds their
brand. And then I discovered Philip along the
way with the show as well. So I cannot say enough
about the importance of this subject, but I really
want to make sure that's teed up. So all of you
pull your, pull your notebooks out, pull your
paper out because this guy, Philip, he's not
only been helping all these companies on it,
but he's been writing a book. Forget this. More
than 10 years, not 10 minutes with ChatGPT. More
than 10 years, he's been putting time and effort
into this book to help companies. And one of
the other big things that Philip brought up while
I was talking to him in our pre -show and our
first session was that as he's come to as a consultant
in the United States from Germany, imagine how
hard it is to make a name for yourself and to
help prove to the companies the importance of
your value. When you are an immigrant in that,
you got to prove your worth. You got to help
people see the value. And so I really respect
the amount of diligence, tenacity, and the amount
of personality that he brings to the table as
well with all of this. So I'm about to bring
him back on before I do a couple of other very
important resources for each of you. Journey
to Wellness with Dr. Shannon and Dr. Justin Pierce.
We're in the middle of rebranding to drshannon
.com. She's got over a quarter million followers.
And one of the most important ones in this regard
would be. myself why because i've known them
for eight years and i've sent uh i want to say
four people i know three for sure that i can
think of their name who had chronic or serious
health issues they didn't have any answers for
and after i asked them how to go with shannon
They just raved. They were like, oh, my gosh,
I've never had this clarity about my health before.
I have a track. I have a path. And I got to see
firsthand their experiences. Now, Shannon predominantly
helps women with their health, things like brain
fatigue and brain fog and anxiety and things
of that nature. So if you know somebody that
might need help from that, go ahead and check
out what Dr. Shannon and Drainer Wellness are
up to. Then we have Practice Makes Permanent
with Jennifer Reed. And if you're like Philip
Shett and you've got brands out there who are
working towards. um improving your culture and
creating transformation practice makes permanent
jennifer helps with that she's a facilitator
for making sure that cultures continue to improve
in companies she's got an incredible amount of
connection to emotional intelligence and spiritual
intelligence as well she has a very strong personal
mission behind this as well she she got into
this because one she spent a few decades and
she's still there working at the irs where you
know company culture is not exactly the easiest
thing to build out but she brings an incredible
energy to what she what she's up to but jennifer
lost her son to suicide um just over a year ago
and that that realization of man there's more
that she knows that she can do as an individual
to help individuals not go through that type
of loss and experience and she wants to help
make sure that these cultural environments improve
as well because all the people that exist in
cultures they have families as well that she
wants to be able to impact so i know of nobody
better than her to help make sure that we're
moving this world in the direction of uplifting
souls creating better emotional intelligence
creating better awareness too of spirituality
and so if you're looking for somebody to help
with that i do highly recommend jennifer then
there's the water project up here the water project
is something that is near and dear to my heart
because i choose for it to be i've never personally
been thirsty in my entire life no matter where
i live down in ecuador right now i don't have
any shortage of water these individuals in africa
these are parents who have to leave their jobs
in order to find water for their kids. Their
kids have to leave school in order to go get
water for the community. And you never know what
type of water they're getting. We have a huge
opportunity to actually pick which project we
want to support through the water project. Once
we contribute to it, we actually get to see the
outcome of this as well. I love this nonprofit.
I love what they're up to and how they do it.
I look at the pictures of these kids and I see
kids celebrating water the way my kids celebrate
Christmas Day. And that was a very humbling experience.
So if you're in a position to financially give
back, you might join the monthly club that I'm
in on there as well. Just giving a little bit
every month to see what we can do to help the
millions of people who need it most in this world.
As long as I rock this microphone, I'll be doing
that. But I know that there's 8 billion people
to help in this world. Those of you listening
that don't have the financial means, my hope
is that... You just drop a link for a cause that
matters to you. I will personally take a look
at that cause and see what it's about. I might
talk about it on here and we'll see what we can
do to help. But if all of us come together, you
never know what type of impact we can have on
the 8 billion people out there. So without further
ado, we're going to get back to helping each
one of you. And we're going to talk about these
goals that create energy and not burn out and
how to do that as a company. So without further
ado, Philip, welcome back on the show. And thank
you again for being here. Thank you so much for
having me. Absolutely. The water project, I bet
they know a few things about setting OKRs. They've
done a pretty good job of setting up what they're
up to. Those goals, they create energy for me.
What do you do to help other entities create
high energy goals? What are some things that
can be done? Yeah. You know why I'm still involved
in setting the revenue goal and the profitability
goal is that they are super low energy goals.
And I don't want a team. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And they are absolutely dangerous goals. There's
very little value in setting a revenue goal.
It's something that every organization kind of
needs and everyone does. But what's the difference
if I set a goal of 50 million in revenue or 500?
The difference is, I mean... My team would, in
both cases, we're a bit smaller. So in both cases,
my team would look at me and say like, you're
hallucinating and you must be, yeah, you must
be out of your mind. And so I would just demotivate
the team. And then you're, and there are so many
organizations that set this revenue goal. And
then for a year. They are hunting it and they
are trying to get to it and it's always too high
and it's just always out there. And so that's
so demotivating. And because I have some very
ambitious, luckily I've got some very ambitious
team members, they would always set the goal
too high. And I always have that discussion.
Oh, why is the revenue goal this low? Well, I
want to hit it and I don't want it to demotivate
anyone. And I want this at least to be a very
realistic goal. revenue goals are pretty terrible
goals because i love this conversation i have
never expected this i've never heard this and
it makes me want to ask so philip do you even
share the goal with the team then or do you just
keep it to yourself what what is the secret behind
that because that's that's like crazy but i love
it i i shared with the team but you know it's
it's just it doesn't matter that much over the,
like, of course, money is like fuel, right? Or
like oxygen. And so an organization just needs
it. But it's, if you're a runner, like setting
a goal for more oxygen in your blood, it's just
like, it's not valuable, right? It doesn't add
much. And so, yeah, I share it, but I'm very
careful about not setting it too high. And there
are many more goals that are much more valuable,
much more directional, much more energizing also
in the short term, right? Because if you are
a business like us and we sell to larger brands,
it means our sales cycle is relatively long.
And so until if we make a change in our marketing,
if we make a change in our product, and we would
only... And in our offering, if we would only
measure it by revenue, the delay between, okay,
we make a decision and we learn that the decision
was right, would be way too long. And that's
why if you only set a revenue goal and you only
steer the organization with that revenue goal,
it's, in my opinion, it's a very terrible way
of motivating. It's very demotivating for you.
It's very demotivating. I'm not a big fan. So
yes, we still have one because it's easier to
set one and then set it lower and have people
achieve it and then have people have more flexibility
and say in how we achieve it than to not set
it at all. So where are those secret goals then,
the energy ones, the ones that get people going?
What do those look like? look one of my one of
the the more energizing goals is that i want
people to reach out to me after a podcast right
so it's and that that's a goal that i have and
so and luckily yesterday for example it was actually
before this show someone was reaching out because
they heard me on another podcast and was asking
hey can you can you join us on this podcast and
that's something that i that I love. And it only
happens. It always only happens when we have
a good energetic conversation and we don't always
just agree on something, but maybe we, it's not
about agreement or disagreement, but it is about
having an actual honest exploration. Right. Exactly.
And not just that. And I can go absolutely an
autopilot, right? I can go on autopilot and,
and just. talk the same phrases that I always
say and it will sound okay. And if the counterpart
isn't actually listening, they will also say
the phrases that I always say, the typical business
phrases. And that's easy, right? And I can make
a tick box for, I did 15 blogs, I did 15 podcasts,
right? This year. And that's an easy, but it's
way harder to do podcasts that actually make
people say, oh, this is... This is actually something
that I want to learn more about or that I want
to also interact with. And so in energizing,
a bad goal is just an activity goal. Oh, I'm
on 15 podcasts or I write a book or I write a
blog or I do this and this and this. And a way
better goal is to say, what do I actually want
to achieve with this activity? And then you set
the goal there. that's way better because then
you can you can you can choose the activities
more smart but you can also yeah exactly and
so that you can take specific actions so this
is something that we ran into with a lot of our
podcast guests where when we talk to them about
their goals if their goal is like well i just
want to reach more people um or i just want to
teach somebody like i can't really do much more
to help them and support them on that. But you
just named something that calls me out in an
important way. You said you want to reach more,
more people. You want people to reach out to
you after the podcast. So it's interesting because
it's not something that you have direct control
over, but you do have influence over and what
are you doing to influence it? So you like, this
is such a great example because I was sitting
there, as you said, that was like, Oh crap. I
was, I was regretting. We went live. And I've,
I've limited us down to YouTube on purpose. Cause
I don't want the, the episode hitting multiple
places at the same time. I don't think that's
necessarily in favor for the route algorithm,
but I was like, man, I should have freaking done
an announcement post. And I should have talked
to the team about that. And we're getting all
of our ducks in order for the year. And we're
trying to get all things going smoothly, but
I botched that. And you just, you, you just called
me out in a good way on a healthy way. So now
I'm thinking like, well, wait a second. I can
get. I can get Philip introduced to Dr. Lance
Knob. I'm definitely doing that. That way you
can go on his hot seat experience. I can get
you introduced to Dr. Shannon and Dr. Justin.
They've got an upcoming event next to Richard
Branson's Island. I don't know the name of the
island, but the business owner who has it has
invited them to speak at it. I bet that network's
really great. Jennifer Reed. from uh practice
makes permanent right but i it just put me into
action it made me think nice how can i help philip
on this because he deserves it and he's working
towards it and and what else can i do to to make
sure that i can do this for my other guests and
for myself so it was a very energizing goal well
done love it love it an energizing goal drives
action right that's that's i think a good a good
summary i want another Okay. So what other energizing
goals do I set for this year? And so I'm publishing
my book, right? Publishing the book is boring,
right? It's an outcome. Yeah, it's really...
Like everyone can publish a book nowadays, right?
So it's actually relatively easily achieved.
And if I write it with chat GPT, right, I'm done
in a couple of days. So writing that book is
relatively boring. But what would be energizing
with the book? And so energizing with the book
would be, well, that I have a few good reviews,
but that also people hate it. I'm not going to
set a goal for one -star reviews, okay? But,
you know, if no one hates this book, then I know
that I probably just have written the same stuff
that everyone's writing and that's agreeable
and that is just stuff that everyone... that
it wouldn't be an opinion piece and it wouldn't
be something that actually makes anyone think
twice and so if i only have good reviews then
it's probably only because well my well because
only a few friends have read the book right but
if i if i get some honest and actual reviews
and and so I don't want only five -star reviews,
but I want people to actually read the book.
And yes, if I get a few five -star reviews, then
great. But I also want a few actual people to
disagree with me. And that's an energizing goal,
even though, of course, I don't want... I'm not
setting an actual goal for one -star reviews.
Sure. I'll double down on that, though. I'll
create some conflict on this one. Good. One,
because I love what you're doing. I love the
OKR reality. And I want your book to succeed.
And so I appreciate your humility on the few
reviews. But I'm looking at that and I'm like,
well, wait a second. This is a 10 -year legacy
book. I have a hard time with my guests who only
have a few reviews on their book because most
of them meant to publish with far more dynamic
results than that. And so, especially when they
come on, they're like, I'm an international bestseller
selling author. I'm like, your book is free.
I'm very sorry to call you out on it, but like,
like that's not okay. And, or they're like, Oh,
I have 300 clients in that they end up with,
you know, the books published for a year and
a half and they've only got three reviews on
it. And I'm like, where did the 300 clients go?
Where's your mother? Can't you leave a review?
I mean, I don't, I don't mean fake it, of course,
but you know, if you wrote a book about life,
then it's okay that your mom did write a review
on it. And, and so it's, it's one of those things
where I'm like, okay, I can understand steering
away from the metric aspect of it. And I love
that you talk about getting that conflict. sense
in there too of like well i want people to really
appreciate this or really not appreciate it because
it tells me they at least took interest into
hearing me out yeah right even if they disagree
that means they had to have taken interest in
it um so that's it i don't think i like that
engagement and so if i would give it a metric
i would probably say I would probably stay away
from I want 100 five -star reviews, right? But
I would say I want 100 reviews. I want 100 actual
reviews of the book, of people that actually
read it. Because honestly, that would be a success
for me. It's hard to do. Yeah, exactly. It's
a niche topic, right? It's not going to be a
bestseller because it's such a niche topic. But
that's okay. If people in my niche and that are
interested in this are reading it and reviewing
it, then I would be excited. Absolutely. And
energized. That's great. All right. So I'll also
bring up an opportunity for you to engage in
conflict with me on this. So we've more studied
the OKRs from the outside perspective and we've
had some great results with companies. Don't
get me wrong. I mean, helping Dr. Eckberg go
from 160 ,000 subscribers to 14 million plus,
you know, and helping Laserway expand from eight
locations to 40 plus locations. All these results
we did, I don't want to say without OKRs. I think
individually, most of us had. an idea of the
concepts or we're building goals or goal oriented
in some way or fashion. So those of you who are
brand new to OKRs, I guess my invitation is to
you like it's OK to be brand new and to be pioneering
the process. And thanks to things like ChatGPT,
we can put together even better plans to build
upon it. I'm going to give one more shout out
real quick before I show the resource we built
to Ramit Sethi, who I've never met. He's friends
with Jake Larson at Video Power. And Jake said,
he's one of the best copywriters that you can
study. So I went and studied his website. I will
teach you to be rich .com. Probably the most
spammiest sounding website I've ever heard of.
And so I'm studying Ramit and what he's up to
years ago. And I came across his guide, the ultimate
guide to habits. And in the ultimate guide to
habits, he talked about the big problems that
we face with goals. And he, you know, he went
to Stanford and one of these interviews, he was
interviewing a Stanford professor and. And he
said something that resonated so well to me.
He said, most people give up on their goals and
they set these resolutions and things because
they have an unhealthy relationship with goals
and goal setting. And he correlated that to the
people who set these workout goals to lose weight.
And after the month or two that they kind of
given up or didn't start and do their thing,
they beat themselves up and they feel bad that
they didn't hit their goal. And I love how much
energy he put into it and how much energy I'm
putting into it, how much energy you put into
these, again, these high energy goal aspects.
Guys, you're setting something that you have
never done before in most cases. Obviously, you're
not meant to hit it, but you can measure what
did you do to get there? And you can enjoy the
journey and realize like, okay, well, if I didn't
know how to fly a plane or how to build a plane.
ever before. And I actually succeed at it, even
if it's kind of like a floppy flight. Like you
did something you've never done before. That's
freaking cool. Or you at least tried to do it.
So that's one of my biggest secrets about goals
for myself is I never get mad at myself for learning
in the process. I'm always looking at what did
I learn? How am I going on this? So I'm going
to share a document real quick. I'm gonna do
this as fast as I can too. You guys can pause
this. I'm gonna go back and look at it too, but
I'm gonna see if this is in somewhat alignment
with what Phillip's up to or Phillip's gonna
be like, dude, that's freaking crazy. What are
you thinking? And Phillip, feel free to hit hard
on this. So at First Class Business, for all
of our clients, we need to be doing this. Now
in that next admission, we have stopped for a
while. So it's time to get back on the horse.
Today's the day. We're getting back on the horse
for this. And this is. Primary objectives, we
call these OCROs. Primary objectives. Key results
and outcomes. And there is a big difference for
us between the key results and the outcomes.
And so following this document is designed to
help us define our combined primary objective
key results so we can ensure that all of our
efforts to advance our projects are in alignment
with the desired outcomes. And so there's a previous
step here that we need the preliminary business
evaluation. And there's a training video associated
with how this works. And so I'll try to drop
these resources into the comments so you guys
can play with this if you see fit. And it talks
about following the instructions for setting
it up. And it talks about the what. What is a
primary objective? And it is ultimately that
what are you doing? And then there's these key
results. The how do you do it? And it tells you,
you know, don't set more than two to five. A
key result must be measurable as they are not
or they're not a key result. That comes from
Google's investor that created the process. All
right. So we're going to go past some of this
down to the outcomes. What is the outcomes to
me? The outcomes are the why. You know, why did
we set these primary objectives to secure results?
That may seem easy to determine and define for
yourself, but even then, studies show that we
are less likely to resolve and to complete our
objectives when we're not consciously aware of
the benefits of putting in the work. So the challenge
with that magnifies when we have a team. The
stronger and more defined your outcomes, the
more committed you and your team end up becoming
to ensure that the hard work gets done. So when
we're talking about outcomes, what I'm referring
to is adding a layer of gratitude. Basically
a gratitude journal. Oh, we set this goal to
make 20 ,000. You know, that's the boring one
that Philip was talking about. Then we got the
key results of what's going to determine that.
We got five new clients at $5 ,000 each. But
the gratitude log is like, and now I was able
to take an extra day's vacation. You know, and
oh, I was able, you know, our team came together
and we worked on this and we got not just a testimonial,
but this client is so grateful that. their family's
life has improved because they're now working
with us. I'm obviously inventing some things
here, but as you go through this of, I will measure,
I will do this as measured by we're adding on
this will unlock. And these are those outcomes
I'm talking about. What is it that we're achieving?
Thanks to this process personally and in business.
So that's our, that's our breakdown of how we
measure our OCROS and how we go about this process.
It may provide some value to you guys. Phillip,
what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. We use
a tiny bit different definitions, but something
very similar. So in our language, the OKRs, the
key results are the outcomes, but we have a layer
above them, and that's our impact. And the impact
is exactly what you're describing here as the
outcome. So that's really just a matter of definition,
right? Sure. it's very very similar at the end
we are we're trying to hit this hit this goal
measured by and that will achieve that will change
something in the world and so that's yeah that's
the impact and so if you yeah if you take the
the water project for example right then maybe
maybe the goal is to increase fundraising from
international sources. And their key result might
be, well, a million dollars from Germany, hopefully.
And then the impact would be, well, that would
provide drinkable water for 10 million people
or however many people, right? But that would
be a bit of how we would define this impact.
I would love that. One, you were so diplomatic.
None of that came across as conflict. And so
I call you out for being a nice guy and respecting
the process we have. But I did catch you say
that you have different definitions for objectives
and key results. I'd love to hear what those
definitions are. So we define the key result
really as the outcome. the outcome that you're
trying to drive. And so, yeah, the objective
is the description of our goal and the qualitative
statement. And so we are trying to bring water
to more, yeah, we are bringing drinkable water
to more people through fundraising in Germany.
I think that would be our objective. And then
the key result is 10 million euros raised in
Germany. And then the impact would be, okay,
that's creating drinkable water for a million
people. That would be how we would define our
terms. That's so interesting because it can be
broken down multiple ways. And does that ever
create like confusion amongst the team? Like,
well, wait, is this a what or is this a how?
Do you guys ever go through that? Because I find
myself going through that way too often. Yeah,
sure. Sure. It does happen. Like, yes. And so
that's also where I'm not dogmatic and more pragmatic.
And it's not, oh, you know, you're not filling
out. this form for Philip and you need to hit
it. You know, the exercise isn't to make the
goal setting guru happy, right? The goal of all
of this is that you and your team feel energized
and that you, your, your team have clarity on
what you need to do today and why you're doing
it and that you can prioritize the right actions.
And so, and then feel motivated to, to go towards
them. And so I'm, yeah, that's why I'm never
like, Oh, this isn't a great key result, right?
That's, that's not really, that's not really
a helpful feedback. That's not the point. I freaking
love that. You just unlocked something in me
because I think subconsciously my, my, my ego
does associate with this. So as soon as you said,
this is not about making the goal setting guru
happy. I was like, Oh shoot. I'm probably so
guilty of that. It happens so often, right? Then
you go into a room and then everyone wants to
get the OKRs beautiful. But hey, not the point.
Dang, man. I love that. That's going to have
a very big impact on my year. Thank you. This
has been awesome. This has been so good. And
it is fairly easy for me to get energized about
the goal process. that energy can be used in
a way that that ego ends up demotivating others
um and so we've got to be careful as people who
are goal -oriented of being more inviting and
more inspiring to those who may not be as brought
into that process and the demeanor the approach
The leadership that you've just graced me with
today is going to help me shift a lot in relation
to that. And I hope other vision pros out there,
you guys learn to pick up some of these things
as well. The takeaway for myself on this is that
there's no wrong way to eat a Reese's, right?
There's no wrong way to really set a goal unless
that goal is demotivating, unless it's pulling
the energy away and ultimately disrupting the
journey. And so that's my final takeaway on this,
my fortune cookie to the world. If you had a
fortune cookie of the world, Philip, or you had
one final thought that this was the last time
you got to speak and share something about goals
and creation and helping visionaries, what would
it be? Yeah. Set goals not as contracts, but
as opportunities for learning. And then go and
learn. and improve and get better and then the
world will be yours it's good it's gonna be good
i love that and visionaries as you do that as
you write that down and get ready to do that
Click on the button on visionproslive .com that
says be our guest and come and share those goals
with us. Come and share the vision of what you're
up to and what you're creating, because that's
really what this is all about. It's empowering
you to get out there and do it and find yourself
in a circle of mentors and friends and leaders
and people who want to help bring that together.
And we look forward to seeing you guys all in
the next episode. Philip, again, thanks for all
of the wisdom that you shared with us and best
wishes with Wave9 and with your family and with
your book publishing and everything else you're
up to. Thank you so much. Absolutely. We'll see
you guys. We'll see you guys on the next episode.
Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy
that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking
forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward. This is going to get
more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement
as well. We'll invite people to participate in
the show. And thank you for giving us your time
and attention. Have an excellent time building
out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.