WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.520 All right. Let's see here. We are good to go. 00:00:02.620 --> 00:00:05.820 Now, we have an absolute rock star on the show 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:08.199 today in Philip Shett. Philip Shett is the founder 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:11.900 of Wave9. He specializes in a business term that 00:00:11.900 --> 00:00:16.440 I see so few SMBs and digital founders and agencies 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:19.039 and legacy builders even know about. Yet it's 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:21.320 one of the greatest secrets that unlocked massive 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:24.949 success for Intuit and Google. One of the very 00:00:24.949 --> 00:00:27.530 first investors in Google is one of the original 00:00:27.530 --> 00:00:29.530 creators of OKRs is what we're talking about. 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:31.829 Objectives, key results. We're going to be talking 00:00:31.829 --> 00:00:33.469 about goals. We're going to talk about unhealthy 00:00:33.469 --> 00:00:36.350 relationships with goals. We're going to talk 00:00:36.350 --> 00:00:38.649 about how to make sure that you ultimately have 00:00:38.649 --> 00:00:41.130 the best chance possible of succeeding as a visionary. 00:00:41.270 --> 00:00:43.329 I'll bring my perspective. He'll, of course, 00:00:43.350 --> 00:00:45.549 bring his. We might bring the gloves on at some 00:00:45.549 --> 00:00:48.850 point and duke it out over goals. But no, I really 00:00:48.850 --> 00:00:51.750 don't think so. Philip, you have absolutely impressed 00:00:51.750 --> 00:00:54.039 me with just your demeanor. the way you've set 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:56.359 up your website, the way Wave9 is going about 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:00.939 helping more than 300 brands ultimately set goals 00:01:00.939 --> 00:01:03.159 the right way and achieve success. So welcome 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:05.040 to Vision Pros Live. Thanks for being here today. 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:07.840 Thank you so much for the kind words and thank 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:10.239 you so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely, 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.180 Philip. So let's go to the beginning a little 00:01:13.180 --> 00:01:17.799 bit. How did you get into this whole OKR space 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.359 and goal setting? What were things like before? 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:23.280 the 300 companies that you've helped succeed 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:30.280 yeah you know i so very quickly people will hear 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:33.280 my my accent wonder where i'm from so i'm german 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:39.540 and i moved to the states in 2014 moved to california 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:42.299 moved to silicon valley and i was actually sent 00:01:42.299 --> 00:01:46.180 by a german company to silicon valley to explore 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:50.439 what people are doing there and what great ideas 00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:52.700 they're working on i was called an innovation 00:01:52.700 --> 00:01:57.620 scout that was my role and so the idea was okay 00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:01.599 they sent me there it was 2014 and i figured 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:04.840 out okay hey they have this great idea and then 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:07.000 maybe we can implement it in germany or maybe 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:10.060 we can buy it or maybe we can we can do something 00:02:10.060 --> 00:02:13.860 similar and so that was that was the whole idea 00:02:13.860 --> 00:02:17.979 of of my role and very quickly i realized that 00:02:18.759 --> 00:02:22.280 You know, Silicon Valley is awesome, but it's 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.419 not that the ideas are that much different to 00:02:25.419 --> 00:02:29.020 the ideas in Berlin or the ideas in London or 00:02:29.020 --> 00:02:32.099 Paris or Barcelona. Like people have great ideas 00:02:32.099 --> 00:02:35.599 there too. But what is different is the ability 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:39.939 to execute on those ideas. And then I got like, 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:44.120 okay, maybe my whole like belief is wrong here. 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:47.319 And it isn't about the ideas. It is about something 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.780 else. and one little piece that was different 00:02:50.780 --> 00:02:54.879 is that people were setting very different goals 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:57.319 on the one hand they were much more ambitious 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.400 but they were also much more inclusive much much 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.400 transparent much shorter term often not set for 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.379 too long but rather for shorter time horizons 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:11.580 much more agile much more with a high urgency 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:15.319 for for action and so with a high bias towards 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.490 that too and so that's That's at the end how 00:03:19.490 --> 00:03:24.650 I explored gold setting. And then I met, well, 00:03:24.729 --> 00:03:27.610 also very typical Silicon Valley story. I met 00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:30.330 Deidre Pagnon, the founder of Workboard. Workboard 00:03:30.330 --> 00:03:33.689 was a very small, but already very interesting 00:03:33.689 --> 00:03:37.590 gold setting platform, a SaaS company. They scaled. 00:03:38.169 --> 00:03:41.629 raised 150 million in venture capital and we 00:03:41.629 --> 00:03:44.969 became their implementation partner and so that's 00:03:44.969 --> 00:03:48.310 how we were able to scale alongside a venture 00:03:48.310 --> 00:03:51.990 capital start well backed company and so that's 00:03:51.990 --> 00:03:55.689 how i explored okrs and that's how i became very 00:03:55.689 --> 00:03:58.210 very proficient in them because we were just 00:03:58.210 --> 00:04:01.810 able to well make a lot of mistakes in the first 00:04:01.810 --> 00:04:06.830 few dozen and then iterate and learn every time 00:04:07.789 --> 00:04:10.770 I love that. And I'm going to be super selfish 00:04:10.770 --> 00:04:14.009 on this for all of us as vision pros. How do 00:04:14.009 --> 00:04:19.189 we become proficient at using OKRs? What are 00:04:19.189 --> 00:04:22.490 some of the big secrets, Philip? Yeah. Luckily, 00:04:22.709 --> 00:04:26.490 OKRs, and for everyone who hasn't really heard 00:04:26.490 --> 00:04:29.629 the term, sorry, I'm always forgetting to introduce 00:04:29.629 --> 00:04:32.970 it. It's objectives and key results. It's very 00:04:32.970 --> 00:04:35.689 simple. So that's the good news. It's very simple. 00:04:37.370 --> 00:04:39.589 all you need and you don't need to implement 00:04:39.589 --> 00:04:42.069 it at 300 companies to become proficient right 00:04:42.069 --> 00:04:46.269 so there's a lot you can learn and you can do 00:04:46.269 --> 00:04:49.149 better right away and you can implement in your 00:04:49.149 --> 00:04:51.769 in your organization no matter the size right 00:04:51.769 --> 00:04:53.569 even if you're just setting goals for yourself 00:04:53.569 --> 00:04:56.290 right some of this might already help but if 00:04:56.290 --> 00:04:58.290 you have a few employees and a few team members 00:04:58.290 --> 00:05:02.230 i'm sure this can help so Objectives and key 00:05:02.230 --> 00:05:04.170 results, very simple methodology. At the end, 00:05:04.209 --> 00:05:07.250 you have to have some objectives. That's a qualitative 00:05:07.250 --> 00:05:09.730 statement and some key results. That's how you 00:05:09.730 --> 00:05:12.310 measure you're actually making progress. And 00:05:12.310 --> 00:05:16.769 so how are you going to get good at it? Let's 00:05:16.769 --> 00:05:21.810 maybe start with a few things that are typical 00:05:21.810 --> 00:05:26.730 for goal setting but don't really help. So first 00:05:26.730 --> 00:05:30.420 of all, you... You just need to start setting 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:33.019 goals. Okay, so that's very, very like super 00:05:33.019 --> 00:05:36.399 basic, but many of us don't even have goals or 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.379 aren't really writing them down or just, oh, 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:42.699 and today it's this and then tomorrow or next 00:05:42.699 --> 00:05:45.699 week it's something else, right? So first you 00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:48.439 want to have very simplistic, a structured process 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:52.740 where once a year and then maybe every quarter 00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:58.160 you are going to set some OKRs. And so that's... 00:05:58.490 --> 00:06:03.230 that's very important because look before i discovered 00:06:03.230 --> 00:06:05.430 okay as i was also setting goals but then i was 00:06:05.430 --> 00:06:07.470 setting goals sometimes in february sometimes 00:06:07.470 --> 00:06:11.750 in april and then again in in may or june right 00:06:11.750 --> 00:06:13.949 and then and then i was forgetting about all 00:06:13.949 --> 00:06:17.509 of those very very quickly too so you wanna you 00:06:17.509 --> 00:06:22.670 wanna set goals and then if you have a team don't 00:06:22.670 --> 00:06:26.490 set goals for your team set it with them so i 00:06:26.490 --> 00:06:30.230 think that's something That's really close to 00:06:30.230 --> 00:06:33.850 my heart. I'm still old enough to have experienced 00:06:33.850 --> 00:06:36.750 workplaces where at the beginning of the year, 00:06:36.910 --> 00:06:40.029 the manager came in and said, hey, these are 00:06:40.029 --> 00:06:43.529 our goals for the year. And now let's go tackle 00:06:43.529 --> 00:06:46.889 them. And that was typically as energizing as, 00:06:47.029 --> 00:06:52.509 well, decaffeinated coffee. And really you want 00:06:52.509 --> 00:06:55.009 a goal setting process to be a double shot of 00:06:55.009 --> 00:06:58.360 espresso, a really good one. And you do that 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:03.180 by involving your team. And so that's a slower 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:06.959 process for sure. If I set goals for my organization, 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:11.579 I'm done in an hour. That's super quick. If I 00:07:11.579 --> 00:07:14.980 involve everyone, then suddenly I have discussions. 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:18.079 Suddenly I have some healthy conflict, maybe 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:21.079 even some unhealthy conflict. I have all of those 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:26.269 discussions. I have to explain things. sometimes 00:07:26.269 --> 00:07:28.730 i like that and sometimes i hate it right oh 00:07:28.730 --> 00:07:31.410 don't ask me why this is important it's just 00:07:31.410 --> 00:07:35.269 important that's that's sometimes they like it 00:07:35.269 --> 00:07:38.990 and sometimes they hate it exactly so you you 00:07:38.990 --> 00:07:41.889 but but you you gotta you gotta have you have 00:07:41.889 --> 00:07:47.149 to involve your team nothing creates like nothing 00:07:47.149 --> 00:07:49.889 you can't really you can't really create motivation 00:07:49.889 --> 00:07:52.329 you can just destroy motivation and kill motivation 00:07:52.329 --> 00:07:56.240 and people and so And the quickest way to do 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:59.939 that is to give them goals that they had no say 00:07:59.939 --> 00:08:02.240 in, that they don't believe in, that they don't 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:03.899 think are the right goals, that they don't think 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:08.620 are valuable. And so, yes, at the end, once you've 00:08:08.620 --> 00:08:11.420 set goals, you need to disagree and commit, right? 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:13.600 You need to have everyone in the organization 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.899 commit to those goals. So that's where, even 00:08:16.899 --> 00:08:18.800 if you have conflict, that's where it needs to 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:23.740 end. But you have to involve them. And then you 00:08:23.740 --> 00:08:27.800 want to also make those goals transparent. And 00:08:27.800 --> 00:08:31.740 so that's sometimes a bit of a culture shock 00:08:31.740 --> 00:08:34.639 for some organizations. But when we set goals, 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:36.559 it's clear that they are visible for everyone 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:39.100 and that the achievement of those goals is also 00:08:39.100 --> 00:08:43.200 visible. And so that's transparency that I think 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.019 is beneficial for organizations. Because at the 00:08:46.019 --> 00:08:52.240 end, well, in good times as in bad times, you 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:55.779 want to share how the organization is doing and 00:08:55.779 --> 00:09:00.759 that transparency is typically helpful. And so 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:04.500 you want to involve people and you want to, yeah, 00:09:04.539 --> 00:09:06.360 you want to make those goals transparent and 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:08.860 also the achievement. There are a few more things, 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:12.299 but I want to make sure that, yeah, I give you 00:09:12.299 --> 00:09:15.159 room to talk too. Oh, I love it. Oh, no, I love 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:17.259 it. I love it. Thank you for that too. One of 00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:19.159 the things that you said that struck me today 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:20.659 in a way that's going to help the rest of my 00:09:20.659 --> 00:09:24.350 life. In addition to, of course, OKRs and frameworks, 00:09:24.710 --> 00:09:27.429 you said you can't really create motivation, 00:09:27.649 --> 00:09:32.289 but you can destroy motivation. And as somebody 00:09:32.289 --> 00:09:39.029 who has struggled with that process of, you know, 00:09:39.070 --> 00:09:41.490 as much as I think I have an impact on creating 00:09:41.490 --> 00:09:44.649 motivation sometimes, I'm so much better at destroying 00:09:44.649 --> 00:09:49.570 it. There's so much wisdom and maturity in what 00:09:49.570 --> 00:09:52.409 you said that I can apply right away and be like, 00:09:52.490 --> 00:09:56.389 dang, if I just get a little bit more out of 00:09:56.389 --> 00:09:59.549 the way as a leader, right, if I just allow my 00:09:59.549 --> 00:10:01.850 team to speak a little bit more, if I use a line, 00:10:01.950 --> 00:10:04.789 tell me more about that, right, and let them 00:10:04.789 --> 00:10:08.190 facilitate their thing, I'm more likely to create 00:10:08.190 --> 00:10:11.769 motivation just by ensuring I don't destroy it 00:10:11.769 --> 00:10:14.990 than if I try to become some type of jester or 00:10:14.990 --> 00:10:20.070 facilitator of it. thoughts on that 100 and so 00:10:20.070 --> 00:10:24.470 when we when we set goals in our organization 00:10:24.470 --> 00:10:30.110 i do it i i try and set very few goals like very 00:10:30.110 --> 00:10:32.809 few okay of course there's a revenue goal and 00:10:32.809 --> 00:10:34.830 a bit of a profitability goal and then there 00:10:34.830 --> 00:10:38.210 are a few more that are for me important and 00:10:38.210 --> 00:10:42.230 how we get there but then i let the team decide 00:10:42.230 --> 00:10:47.120 on a ton of almost all of the other goals and 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:54.159 so and that was that was very difficult for me 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:57.919 to learn too um in the beginning i was a very 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:01.100 controlling ceo i was a very controlling founder 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:04.960 i was basically in every project i was involved 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:12.059 in every decision and i mean i couldn't do that 00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:15.559 for a very long time and i couldn't do that for 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:19.080 yeah forever and it also led to the organization 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:23.639 just being very slow and so a way better approach 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:28.240 is to set fewer expectations and then let the 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:34.259 team run a ton more and now i would say my a 00:11:34.259 --> 00:11:38.759 players have really stepped up and have really 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:42.279 filled a lot of the vacuum that I left by not 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:45.899 filling everything. And it also became clear 00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:50.120 who were my absolute C players, right? I definitely 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.659 had some of those too, but I was very often creating 00:11:53.659 --> 00:11:55.899 an environment where that wasn't very obvious 00:11:55.899 --> 00:12:00.279 because I was there anyway, right? I was in every 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.539 call, I was there anyway. And so you create a 00:12:03.539 --> 00:12:07.370 better organization by... empowering your people 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:10.309 and goal setting is a great way to do that. I 00:12:10.309 --> 00:12:12.789 love that. It's so true. I see what you're saying. 00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:17.470 It exposes the C players because if you take 00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:20.309 a back seat and we keep our mouth shut as the 00:12:20.309 --> 00:12:22.929 founders and we allow our team members to go 00:12:22.929 --> 00:12:25.470 after the goals, you can see who steps up, you 00:12:25.470 --> 00:12:27.389 can see who shies away, you can see who doesn't 00:12:27.389 --> 00:12:30.830 engage in the conversation. Those are some of 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:34.620 the things you're alluding to, right? 100%. you 00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:37.740 of course have to differentiate between someone 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:40.720 who's just shy and an introvert and someone who 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.379 is shying away from responsibility, right? So 00:12:44.379 --> 00:12:48.600 you have to work in different mechanisms, not 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.659 only in an open group discussion where obviously 00:12:51.659 --> 00:12:54.080 some people will feel a bit less comfortable 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:57.299 bringing up their ideas. But if you have a process 00:12:57.299 --> 00:13:00.389 that's... That's a workshop, but then it's also 00:13:00.389 --> 00:13:02.850 maybe some async collaboration and a Google Doc. 00:13:03.149 --> 00:13:06.529 And maybe you give different mechanisms to make 00:13:06.529 --> 00:13:10.289 your voice heard. If you do that, then it will 00:13:10.289 --> 00:13:13.669 become very clear who's actually interested in 00:13:13.669 --> 00:13:17.070 bringing the company forward and who is not. 00:13:17.490 --> 00:13:19.970 I'll stack two resources to help on this. One, 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:22.330 Patrick Lencioni's book, The Five Dysfunctions 00:13:22.330 --> 00:13:25.429 of a Team. And if a leader does a great job of 00:13:25.429 --> 00:13:28.950 applying what's taught in that book. it's impossible 00:13:28.950 --> 00:13:32.029 not to unlock a sense of healthy conflict and 00:13:32.029 --> 00:13:37.269 discussion. Two, and even easier to apply methodology, 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:42.330 Jeff Bezos of Amazon, in his company meetings, 00:13:42.629 --> 00:13:45.870 they have the person who is newest to the team 00:13:45.870 --> 00:13:49.440 speak first. And I thought that was just brilliant 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:51.899 and awesome because if the person, if everybody 00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:54.240 else speaks first, that person feels so intimidated 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.639 and out of place by the end of, they don't really 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.500 feel like they can contribute anything of value. 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:00.559 But if you start with the person who's newest 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:04.539 and who's most shy, then it, and if that's the 00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:08.340 rule that's set, then nobody can step away from 00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:10.519 saying like, well, I, I, I have to at least say, 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.879 I don't want to say anything. And so it does 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.419 create some type of engagement. So those are 00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:17.840 two little secrets that. I'll put out there that 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:19.659 I've heard along the way. We're going to come 00:14:19.659 --> 00:14:21.460 back. We're going to take a little break, but 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:23.259 I'm also going to reveal one other thing that 00:14:23.259 --> 00:14:25.779 you said that really hit me. You talked about 00:14:25.779 --> 00:14:28.000 how as a founder, you still stay at the helm, 00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:31.620 perhaps sometimes or maybe always, of the goals 00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:35.440 related to revenue and profitability. And I think 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.620 that's a very important reality because I think 00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:41.740 sometimes in my past as a leader, I was so eager 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:45.120 to get the team involved. And so eager to do 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.659 the right thing as a leader that I ended up shirking 00:14:47.659 --> 00:14:50.740 some of the responsibility that my team needed 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.860 me to ultimately weigh in on. Because, you know, 00:14:53.860 --> 00:14:55.899 imagine if you've got somebody who's new or shy 00:14:55.899 --> 00:14:58.259 or hasn't had a lot of leadership opportunity 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:01.659 and some, you know, overbearing founder comes 00:15:01.659 --> 00:15:03.240 like, okay, it's your turn to set the revenue 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.700 goal. It's like, what? Like, I don't want to 00:15:06.700 --> 00:15:09.059 be responsible for that. I don't want to be the 00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:12.360 one accountable to make that happen. I love that 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.460 you talked about how you still stay in charge 00:15:15.460 --> 00:15:18.840 of those two dynamics and probably others. So 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:21.100 there's a lot of emotional intelligence baked 00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:23.019 into this as well. We're going to come back. 00:15:23.179 --> 00:15:26.179 We're going to reveal more about what it is that 00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:28.179 we're doing with OKRs, what types of results 00:15:28.179 --> 00:15:30.500 we've been able to drive with them, some of the 00:15:30.500 --> 00:15:34.000 ins and outs of things that you might warn companies 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.580 to not overlook or to not. to not lose sight 00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:39.639 of in the process. And we'll just keep doubling 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.120 down on this value, Philip. So thanks for everything 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:43.740 you've shared so far. And we'll see you guys 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:45.620 on the other side. We'll be right back. All right. 00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:49.460 Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Callum. 00:15:49.460 --> 00:15:51.419 I'm your show host. We'll be doing interviews 00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:53.919 for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:56.480 who are building fantastic visions out there. 00:16:07.179 --> 00:16:08.779 Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome into another 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:11.059 show of Vision Pros Live. I'm your show host, 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:13.100 Jackson Callum, founder and CEO of First Class 00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:15.639 Business, and I'm excited to have Philip Shett 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:17.600 on board today. We're talking about goals that 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.740 create energy, not burnout. We're going to be 00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:22.940 talking about, you know, we've got a subtitle 00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:24.840 on this, what 300 companies, 300 plus companies 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.580 have taught Philip and I about setting the right 00:16:27.580 --> 00:16:29.240 goals, but that's just counting his companies. 00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:32.169 too. And on my side, it's, it's pretty close 00:16:32.169 --> 00:16:34.389 to the same, but we've had different levels of 00:16:34.389 --> 00:16:36.429 companies too. He's worked with companies that 00:16:36.429 --> 00:16:39.190 have done, that have raised 50 million in capital 00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:42.750 through VC backed. And the only VC backed company 00:16:42.750 --> 00:16:45.889 that I can recall that I worked with was own 00:16:45.889 --> 00:16:47.970 local back when it was seen interactive and we 00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:52.649 raised 10 million with with Y Combinator. And 00:16:52.649 --> 00:16:54.470 so we got to learn some really cool things, but 00:16:54.470 --> 00:16:56.789 I was either young, dumb and immature and didn't 00:16:56.789 --> 00:17:00.950 hear about the OKRs back then, or Well, we didn't 00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:03.629 actually measure based on OKRs and work with 00:17:03.629 --> 00:17:06.150 them. And while we were able to get lucky to 00:17:06.150 --> 00:17:08.170 raise that $10 million and move the brand forward, 00:17:08.450 --> 00:17:11.950 there was so much that we could have done better. 00:17:12.049 --> 00:17:14.089 And it would have been neat to know Philip back 00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:16.650 when we were starting that. It wasn't until years 00:17:16.650 --> 00:17:21.369 later. That was in 2009. And it wasn't until 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:26.549 2017, I believe it was, eight years later, where 00:17:26.549 --> 00:17:29.759 somebody brought up OKRs. And I thought, no, 00:17:29.859 --> 00:17:33.140 I'm sorry. 2017, we touched on it at Irrational 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:35.859 Marketing. Forgot about that. I need to fast 00:17:35.859 --> 00:17:39.740 forward further. It was 2021 before. So 11, 12 00:17:39.740 --> 00:17:42.480 years later before somebody meaningfully brought 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.160 up OKRs that I respected and was like, hey, we 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:46.759 should really be implementing these at the company. 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:48.559 And I started to really pay attention to that. 00:17:48.619 --> 00:17:51.059 It's only five years ago or really probably four 00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:52.720 years ago where I started to say, you know what? 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.619 I need to look into this. And as I did. I uncovered 00:17:55.619 --> 00:17:58.099 some super powerful truths about how Google is 00:17:58.099 --> 00:18:00.160 building their brand, how Intel builds their 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.460 brand. And then I discovered Philip along the 00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:04.779 way with the show as well. So I cannot say enough 00:18:04.779 --> 00:18:07.240 about the importance of this subject, but I really 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.039 want to make sure that's teed up. So all of you 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:11.059 pull your, pull your notebooks out, pull your 00:18:11.059 --> 00:18:13.380 paper out because this guy, Philip, he's not 00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:15.359 only been helping all these companies on it, 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:17.839 but he's been writing a book. Forget this. More 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.680 than 10 years, not 10 minutes with ChatGPT. More 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:22.740 than 10 years, he's been putting time and effort 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:24.900 into this book to help companies. And one of 00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:26.619 the other big things that Philip brought up while 00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:28.680 I was talking to him in our pre -show and our 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:32.900 first session was that as he's come to as a consultant 00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:35.599 in the United States from Germany, imagine how 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:38.700 hard it is to make a name for yourself and to 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:40.740 help prove to the companies the importance of 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:43.440 your value. When you are an immigrant in that, 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:45.079 you got to prove your worth. You got to help 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.539 people see the value. And so I really respect 00:18:47.539 --> 00:18:50.579 the amount of diligence, tenacity, and the amount 00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:52.279 of personality that he brings to the table as 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:53.900 well with all of this. So I'm about to bring 00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:56.460 him back on before I do a couple of other very 00:18:56.460 --> 00:18:59.339 important resources for each of you. Journey 00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:02.400 to Wellness with Dr. Shannon and Dr. Justin Pierce. 00:19:02.539 --> 00:19:04.519 We're in the middle of rebranding to drshannon 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.900 .com. She's got over a quarter million followers. 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:09.500 And one of the most important ones in this regard 00:19:09.500 --> 00:19:12.539 would be. myself why because i've known them 00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:15.920 for eight years and i've sent uh i want to say 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:17.880 four people i know three for sure that i can 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.940 think of their name who had chronic or serious 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:23.559 health issues they didn't have any answers for 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:26.259 and after i asked them how to go with shannon 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:28.960 They just raved. They were like, oh, my gosh, 00:19:29.059 --> 00:19:31.099 I've never had this clarity about my health before. 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.220 I have a track. I have a path. And I got to see 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:36.680 firsthand their experiences. Now, Shannon predominantly 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:39.400 helps women with their health, things like brain 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:42.220 fatigue and brain fog and anxiety and things 00:19:42.220 --> 00:19:44.579 of that nature. So if you know somebody that 00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:46.180 might need help from that, go ahead and check 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:48.480 out what Dr. Shannon and Drainer Wellness are 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.950 up to. Then we have Practice Makes Permanent 00:19:51.950 --> 00:19:54.369 with Jennifer Reed. And if you're like Philip 00:19:54.369 --> 00:19:57.349 Shett and you've got brands out there who are 00:19:57.349 --> 00:20:00.630 working towards. um improving your culture and 00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:03.250 creating transformation practice makes permanent 00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:05.769 jennifer helps with that she's a facilitator 00:20:05.769 --> 00:20:08.789 for making sure that cultures continue to improve 00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:11.390 in companies she's got an incredible amount of 00:20:11.390 --> 00:20:14.049 connection to emotional intelligence and spiritual 00:20:14.049 --> 00:20:17.710 intelligence as well she has a very strong personal 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:20.730 mission behind this as well she she got into 00:20:20.730 --> 00:20:23.349 this because one she spent a few decades and 00:20:23.349 --> 00:20:26.559 she's still there working at the irs where you 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:28.460 know company culture is not exactly the easiest 00:20:28.460 --> 00:20:31.380 thing to build out but she brings an incredible 00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:34.059 energy to what she what she's up to but jennifer 00:20:34.059 --> 00:20:37.640 lost her son to suicide um just over a year ago 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.839 and that that realization of man there's more 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.400 that she knows that she can do as an individual 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.660 to help individuals not go through that type 00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:48.099 of loss and experience and she wants to help 00:20:48.099 --> 00:20:50.700 make sure that these cultural environments improve 00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:53.680 as well because all the people that exist in 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.220 cultures they have families as well that she 00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:58.380 wants to be able to impact so i know of nobody 00:20:58.380 --> 00:21:01.500 better than her to help make sure that we're 00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:04.039 moving this world in the direction of uplifting 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:06.119 souls creating better emotional intelligence 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:07.759 creating better awareness too of spirituality 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:09.799 and so if you're looking for somebody to help 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.250 with that i do highly recommend jennifer then 00:21:12.250 --> 00:21:14.430 there's the water project up here the water project 00:21:14.430 --> 00:21:16.490 is something that is near and dear to my heart 00:21:16.490 --> 00:21:19.210 because i choose for it to be i've never personally 00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:21.369 been thirsty in my entire life no matter where 00:21:21.369 --> 00:21:23.109 i live down in ecuador right now i don't have 00:21:23.109 --> 00:21:26.190 any shortage of water these individuals in africa 00:21:26.190 --> 00:21:29.769 these are parents who have to leave their jobs 00:21:29.769 --> 00:21:31.789 in order to find water for their kids. Their 00:21:31.789 --> 00:21:33.910 kids have to leave school in order to go get 00:21:33.910 --> 00:21:36.390 water for the community. And you never know what 00:21:36.390 --> 00:21:38.789 type of water they're getting. We have a huge 00:21:38.789 --> 00:21:41.390 opportunity to actually pick which project we 00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:44.369 want to support through the water project. Once 00:21:44.369 --> 00:21:46.410 we contribute to it, we actually get to see the 00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:48.630 outcome of this as well. I love this nonprofit. 00:21:48.869 --> 00:21:50.170 I love what they're up to and how they do it. 00:21:50.349 --> 00:21:52.910 I look at the pictures of these kids and I see 00:21:52.910 --> 00:21:56.049 kids celebrating water the way my kids celebrate 00:21:56.049 --> 00:21:58.319 Christmas Day. And that was a very humbling experience. 00:21:58.579 --> 00:22:01.299 So if you're in a position to financially give 00:22:01.299 --> 00:22:03.740 back, you might join the monthly club that I'm 00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:05.440 in on there as well. Just giving a little bit 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.240 every month to see what we can do to help the 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:08.920 millions of people who need it most in this world. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:11.440 As long as I rock this microphone, I'll be doing 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:13.720 that. But I know that there's 8 billion people 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.759 to help in this world. Those of you listening 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.339 that don't have the financial means, my hope 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:20.539 is that... You just drop a link for a cause that 00:22:20.539 --> 00:22:22.640 matters to you. I will personally take a look 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.160 at that cause and see what it's about. I might 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:25.660 talk about it on here and we'll see what we can 00:22:25.660 --> 00:22:27.779 do to help. But if all of us come together, you 00:22:27.779 --> 00:22:29.500 never know what type of impact we can have on 00:22:29.500 --> 00:22:31.839 the 8 billion people out there. So without further 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:33.259 ado, we're going to get back to helping each 00:22:33.259 --> 00:22:35.019 one of you. And we're going to talk about these 00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:37.779 goals that create energy and not burn out and 00:22:37.779 --> 00:22:39.940 how to do that as a company. So without further 00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:42.440 ado, Philip, welcome back on the show. And thank 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.640 you again for being here. Thank you so much for 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:50.240 having me. Absolutely. The water project, I bet 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.319 they know a few things about setting OKRs. They've 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:54.359 done a pretty good job of setting up what they're 00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:57.759 up to. Those goals, they create energy for me. 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.920 What do you do to help other entities create 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:04.059 high energy goals? What are some things that 00:23:04.059 --> 00:23:09.299 can be done? Yeah. You know why I'm still involved 00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:11.400 in setting the revenue goal and the profitability 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.700 goal is that they are super low energy goals. 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.640 And I don't want a team. Yeah, no, absolutely. 00:23:17.859 --> 00:23:20.400 And they are absolutely dangerous goals. There's 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.599 very little value in setting a revenue goal. 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.920 It's something that every organization kind of 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.740 needs and everyone does. But what's the difference 00:23:32.740 --> 00:23:37.960 if I set a goal of 50 million in revenue or 500? 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:42.809 The difference is, I mean... My team would, in 00:23:42.809 --> 00:23:45.769 both cases, we're a bit smaller. So in both cases, 00:23:45.769 --> 00:23:48.869 my team would look at me and say like, you're 00:23:48.869 --> 00:23:54.029 hallucinating and you must be, yeah, you must 00:23:54.029 --> 00:23:56.970 be out of your mind. And so I would just demotivate 00:23:56.970 --> 00:24:00.190 the team. And then you're, and there are so many 00:24:00.190 --> 00:24:03.210 organizations that set this revenue goal. And 00:24:03.210 --> 00:24:06.359 then for a year. They are hunting it and they 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:09.799 are trying to get to it and it's always too high 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:12.720 and it's just always out there. And so that's 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:16.559 so demotivating. And because I have some very 00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:18.839 ambitious, luckily I've got some very ambitious 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.579 team members, they would always set the goal 00:24:21.579 --> 00:24:23.880 too high. And I always have that discussion. 00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:26.940 Oh, why is the revenue goal this low? Well, I 00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:29.359 want to hit it and I don't want it to demotivate 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:31.700 anyone. And I want this at least to be a very 00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:36.480 realistic goal. revenue goals are pretty terrible 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.380 goals because i love this conversation i have 00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:41.819 never expected this i've never heard this and 00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:44.559 it makes me want to ask so philip do you even 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.819 share the goal with the team then or do you just 00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:49.019 keep it to yourself what what is the secret behind 00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:51.640 that because that's that's like crazy but i love 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:56.880 it i i shared with the team but you know it's 00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:00.809 it's just it doesn't matter that much over the, 00:25:01.029 --> 00:25:04.369 like, of course, money is like fuel, right? Or 00:25:04.369 --> 00:25:08.309 like oxygen. And so an organization just needs 00:25:08.309 --> 00:25:14.349 it. But it's, if you're a runner, like setting 00:25:14.349 --> 00:25:16.569 a goal for more oxygen in your blood, it's just 00:25:16.569 --> 00:25:20.849 like, it's not valuable, right? It doesn't add 00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:25.049 much. And so, yeah, I share it, but I'm very 00:25:25.049 --> 00:25:29.569 careful about not setting it too high. And there 00:25:29.569 --> 00:25:33.509 are many more goals that are much more valuable, 00:25:33.670 --> 00:25:38.170 much more directional, much more energizing also 00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:43.430 in the short term, right? Because if you are 00:25:43.430 --> 00:25:46.589 a business like us and we sell to larger brands, 00:25:46.789 --> 00:25:48.930 it means our sales cycle is relatively long. 00:25:49.369 --> 00:25:52.970 And so until if we make a change in our marketing, 00:25:53.049 --> 00:25:54.930 if we make a change in our product, and we would 00:25:54.930 --> 00:25:57.710 only... And in our offering, if we would only 00:25:57.710 --> 00:26:01.809 measure it by revenue, the delay between, okay, 00:26:01.829 --> 00:26:04.230 we make a decision and we learn that the decision 00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:08.009 was right, would be way too long. And that's 00:26:08.009 --> 00:26:12.569 why if you only set a revenue goal and you only 00:26:12.569 --> 00:26:14.549 steer the organization with that revenue goal, 00:26:15.829 --> 00:26:18.930 it's, in my opinion, it's a very terrible way 00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:21.990 of motivating. It's very demotivating for you. 00:26:22.009 --> 00:26:27.700 It's very demotivating. I'm not a big fan. So 00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:31.460 yes, we still have one because it's easier to 00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:35.559 set one and then set it lower and have people 00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:39.599 achieve it and then have people have more flexibility 00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:43.940 and say in how we achieve it than to not set 00:26:43.940 --> 00:26:48.160 it at all. So where are those secret goals then, 00:26:48.220 --> 00:26:50.559 the energy ones, the ones that get people going? 00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:56.059 What do those look like? look one of my one of 00:26:56.059 --> 00:26:59.859 the the more energizing goals is that i want 00:26:59.859 --> 00:27:04.779 people to reach out to me after a podcast right 00:27:04.779 --> 00:27:08.160 so it's and that that's a goal that i have and 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:13.640 so and luckily yesterday for example it was actually 00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:16.640 before this show someone was reaching out because 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:18.660 they heard me on another podcast and was asking 00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:21.980 hey can you can you join us on this podcast and 00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.430 that's something that i that I love. And it only 00:27:24.430 --> 00:27:28.829 happens. It always only happens when we have 00:27:28.829 --> 00:27:33.029 a good energetic conversation and we don't always 00:27:33.029 --> 00:27:37.569 just agree on something, but maybe we, it's not 00:27:37.569 --> 00:27:39.769 about agreement or disagreement, but it is about 00:27:39.769 --> 00:27:43.910 having an actual honest exploration. Right. Exactly. 00:27:43.990 --> 00:27:47.509 And not just that. And I can go absolutely an 00:27:47.509 --> 00:27:50.230 autopilot, right? I can go on autopilot and, 00:27:50.289 --> 00:27:54.019 and just. talk the same phrases that I always 00:27:54.019 --> 00:27:59.000 say and it will sound okay. And if the counterpart 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:01.680 isn't actually listening, they will also say 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:04.240 the phrases that I always say, the typical business 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.440 phrases. And that's easy, right? And I can make 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.400 a tick box for, I did 15 blogs, I did 15 podcasts, 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.599 right? This year. And that's an easy, but it's 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.400 way harder to do podcasts that actually make 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:22.759 people say, oh, this is... This is actually something 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.460 that I want to learn more about or that I want 00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:30.460 to also interact with. And so in energizing, 00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:33.380 a bad goal is just an activity goal. Oh, I'm 00:28:33.380 --> 00:28:37.059 on 15 podcasts or I write a book or I write a 00:28:37.059 --> 00:28:40.279 blog or I do this and this and this. And a way 00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:45.019 better goal is to say, what do I actually want 00:28:45.019 --> 00:28:49.059 to achieve with this activity? And then you set 00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:52.730 the goal there. that's way better because then 00:28:52.730 --> 00:28:56.289 you can you can you can choose the activities 00:28:56.289 --> 00:29:00.130 more smart but you can also yeah exactly and 00:29:00.130 --> 00:29:03.190 so that you can take specific actions so this 00:29:03.190 --> 00:29:04.849 is something that we ran into with a lot of our 00:29:04.849 --> 00:29:06.970 podcast guests where when we talk to them about 00:29:06.970 --> 00:29:09.289 their goals if their goal is like well i just 00:29:09.289 --> 00:29:11.509 want to reach more people um or i just want to 00:29:11.509 --> 00:29:13.950 teach somebody like i can't really do much more 00:29:14.329 --> 00:29:16.089 to help them and support them on that. But you 00:29:16.089 --> 00:29:18.470 just named something that calls me out in an 00:29:18.470 --> 00:29:20.769 important way. You said you want to reach more, 00:29:21.150 --> 00:29:23.069 more people. You want people to reach out to 00:29:23.069 --> 00:29:25.289 you after the podcast. So it's interesting because 00:29:25.289 --> 00:29:26.910 it's not something that you have direct control 00:29:26.910 --> 00:29:30.390 over, but you do have influence over and what 00:29:30.390 --> 00:29:33.490 are you doing to influence it? So you like, this 00:29:33.490 --> 00:29:36.410 is such a great example because I was sitting 00:29:36.410 --> 00:29:38.410 there, as you said, that was like, Oh crap. I 00:29:38.410 --> 00:29:41.769 was, I was regretting. We went live. And I've, 00:29:41.769 --> 00:29:44.269 I've limited us down to YouTube on purpose. Cause 00:29:44.269 --> 00:29:47.470 I don't want the, the episode hitting multiple 00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:49.609 places at the same time. I don't think that's 00:29:49.609 --> 00:29:50.990 necessarily in favor for the route algorithm, 00:29:51.089 --> 00:29:53.569 but I was like, man, I should have freaking done 00:29:53.569 --> 00:29:56.170 an announcement post. And I should have talked 00:29:56.170 --> 00:29:57.750 to the team about that. And we're getting all 00:29:57.750 --> 00:29:59.650 of our ducks in order for the year. And we're 00:29:59.650 --> 00:30:02.089 trying to get all things going smoothly, but 00:30:02.089 --> 00:30:05.930 I botched that. And you just, you, you just called 00:30:05.930 --> 00:30:07.950 me out in a good way on a healthy way. So now 00:30:07.950 --> 00:30:09.890 I'm thinking like, well, wait a second. I can 00:30:09.890 --> 00:30:12.789 get. I can get Philip introduced to Dr. Lance 00:30:12.789 --> 00:30:14.630 Knob. I'm definitely doing that. That way you 00:30:14.630 --> 00:30:16.650 can go on his hot seat experience. I can get 00:30:16.650 --> 00:30:20.470 you introduced to Dr. Shannon and Dr. Justin. 00:30:20.549 --> 00:30:22.569 They've got an upcoming event next to Richard 00:30:22.569 --> 00:30:24.109 Branson's Island. I don't know the name of the 00:30:24.109 --> 00:30:26.869 island, but the business owner who has it has 00:30:26.869 --> 00:30:29.569 invited them to speak at it. I bet that network's 00:30:29.569 --> 00:30:32.569 really great. Jennifer Reed. from uh practice 00:30:32.569 --> 00:30:35.049 makes permanent right but i it just put me into 00:30:35.049 --> 00:30:38.130 action it made me think nice how can i help philip 00:30:38.130 --> 00:30:40.150 on this because he deserves it and he's working 00:30:40.150 --> 00:30:43.569 towards it and and what else can i do to to make 00:30:43.569 --> 00:30:45.690 sure that i can do this for my other guests and 00:30:45.690 --> 00:30:49.750 for myself so it was a very energizing goal well 00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:54.230 done love it love it an energizing goal drives 00:30:54.230 --> 00:30:57.490 action right that's that's i think a good a good 00:30:57.490 --> 00:31:08.220 summary i want another Okay. So what other energizing 00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:17.720 goals do I set for this year? And so I'm publishing 00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:23.220 my book, right? Publishing the book is boring, 00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.460 right? It's an outcome. Yeah, it's really... 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.440 Like everyone can publish a book nowadays, right? 00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:33.059 So it's actually relatively easily achieved. 00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.480 And if I write it with chat GPT, right, I'm done 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.500 in a couple of days. So writing that book is 00:31:39.500 --> 00:31:43.039 relatively boring. But what would be energizing 00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:47.240 with the book? And so energizing with the book 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:53.140 would be, well, that I have a few good reviews, 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:57.980 but that also people hate it. I'm not going to 00:31:57.980 --> 00:32:00.779 set a goal for one -star reviews, okay? But, 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:06.579 you know, if no one hates this book, then I know 00:32:06.579 --> 00:32:11.640 that I probably just have written the same stuff 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:17.500 that everyone's writing and that's agreeable 00:32:17.500 --> 00:32:22.000 and that is just stuff that everyone... that 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.519 it wouldn't be an opinion piece and it wouldn't 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:28.039 be something that actually makes anyone think 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.960 twice and so if i only have good reviews then 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:35.359 it's probably only because well my well because 00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:38.079 only a few friends have read the book right but 00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:41.119 if i if i get some honest and actual reviews 00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:47.140 and and so I don't want only five -star reviews, 00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:49.660 but I want people to actually read the book. 00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.079 And yes, if I get a few five -star reviews, then 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.279 great. But I also want a few actual people to 00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:01.660 disagree with me. And that's an energizing goal, 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.559 even though, of course, I don't want... I'm not 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.359 setting an actual goal for one -star reviews. 00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:09.619 Sure. I'll double down on that, though. I'll 00:33:09.619 --> 00:33:12.599 create some conflict on this one. Good. One, 00:33:13.180 --> 00:33:16.519 because I love what you're doing. I love the 00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:20.640 OKR reality. And I want your book to succeed. 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:23.779 And so I appreciate your humility on the few 00:33:23.779 --> 00:33:25.980 reviews. But I'm looking at that and I'm like, 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:29.039 well, wait a second. This is a 10 -year legacy 00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:34.660 book. I have a hard time with my guests who only 00:33:34.660 --> 00:33:37.900 have a few reviews on their book because most 00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:40.480 of them meant to publish with far more dynamic 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:43.700 results than that. And so, especially when they 00:33:43.700 --> 00:33:45.359 come on, they're like, I'm an international bestseller 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.579 selling author. I'm like, your book is free. 00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:50.400 I'm very sorry to call you out on it, but like, 00:33:50.420 --> 00:33:53.480 like that's not okay. And, or they're like, Oh, 00:33:53.539 --> 00:33:55.859 I have 300 clients in that they end up with, 00:33:55.859 --> 00:33:57.519 you know, the books published for a year and 00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.140 a half and they've only got three reviews on 00:33:59.140 --> 00:34:02.180 it. And I'm like, where did the 300 clients go? 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:04.900 Where's your mother? Can't you leave a review? 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.539 I mean, I don't, I don't mean fake it, of course, 00:34:07.539 --> 00:34:09.539 but you know, if you wrote a book about life, 00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:11.539 then it's okay that your mom did write a review 00:34:11.539 --> 00:34:14.539 on it. And, and so it's, it's one of those things 00:34:14.539 --> 00:34:17.539 where I'm like, okay, I can understand steering 00:34:17.539 --> 00:34:20.519 away from the metric aspect of it. And I love 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:23.719 that you talk about getting that conflict. sense 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:25.780 in there too of like well i want people to really 00:34:25.780 --> 00:34:28.199 appreciate this or really not appreciate it because 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.239 it tells me they at least took interest into 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:32.860 hearing me out yeah right even if they disagree 00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:35.340 that means they had to have taken interest in 00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:37.860 it um so that's it i don't think i like that 00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:41.159 engagement and so if i would give it a metric 00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:44.070 i would probably say I would probably stay away 00:34:44.070 --> 00:34:47.070 from I want 100 five -star reviews, right? But 00:34:47.070 --> 00:34:50.429 I would say I want 100 reviews. I want 100 actual 00:34:50.429 --> 00:34:53.510 reviews of the book, of people that actually 00:34:53.510 --> 00:34:57.469 read it. Because honestly, that would be a success 00:34:57.469 --> 00:35:01.210 for me. It's hard to do. Yeah, exactly. It's 00:35:01.210 --> 00:35:05.869 a niche topic, right? It's not going to be a 00:35:05.869 --> 00:35:08.389 bestseller because it's such a niche topic. But 00:35:08.389 --> 00:35:14.039 that's okay. If people in my niche and that are 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:17.239 interested in this are reading it and reviewing 00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:21.539 it, then I would be excited. Absolutely. And 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:25.260 energized. That's great. All right. So I'll also 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:27.260 bring up an opportunity for you to engage in 00:35:27.260 --> 00:35:30.809 conflict with me on this. So we've more studied 00:35:30.809 --> 00:35:33.070 the OKRs from the outside perspective and we've 00:35:33.070 --> 00:35:35.110 had some great results with companies. Don't 00:35:35.110 --> 00:35:37.190 get me wrong. I mean, helping Dr. Eckberg go 00:35:37.190 --> 00:35:40.329 from 160 ,000 subscribers to 14 million plus, 00:35:40.469 --> 00:35:43.369 you know, and helping Laserway expand from eight 00:35:43.369 --> 00:35:46.989 locations to 40 plus locations. All these results 00:35:46.989 --> 00:35:50.610 we did, I don't want to say without OKRs. I think 00:35:50.610 --> 00:35:53.360 individually, most of us had. an idea of the 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.139 concepts or we're building goals or goal oriented 00:35:56.139 --> 00:35:58.920 in some way or fashion. So those of you who are 00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.340 brand new to OKRs, I guess my invitation is to 00:36:01.340 --> 00:36:04.619 you like it's OK to be brand new and to be pioneering 00:36:04.619 --> 00:36:07.840 the process. And thanks to things like ChatGPT, 00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:10.920 we can put together even better plans to build 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:13.099 upon it. I'm going to give one more shout out 00:36:13.099 --> 00:36:14.840 real quick before I show the resource we built 00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:17.360 to Ramit Sethi, who I've never met. He's friends 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:20.059 with Jake Larson at Video Power. And Jake said, 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:21.880 he's one of the best copywriters that you can 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:24.539 study. So I went and studied his website. I will 00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:27.019 teach you to be rich .com. Probably the most 00:36:27.019 --> 00:36:29.320 spammiest sounding website I've ever heard of. 00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:32.360 And so I'm studying Ramit and what he's up to 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:35.719 years ago. And I came across his guide, the ultimate 00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:38.659 guide to habits. And in the ultimate guide to 00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:41.500 habits, he talked about the big problems that 00:36:41.500 --> 00:36:44.300 we face with goals. And he, you know, he went 00:36:44.300 --> 00:36:46.099 to Stanford and one of these interviews, he was 00:36:46.099 --> 00:36:48.579 interviewing a Stanford professor and. And he 00:36:48.579 --> 00:36:50.480 said something that resonated so well to me. 00:36:50.539 --> 00:36:53.699 He said, most people give up on their goals and 00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:55.619 they set these resolutions and things because 00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:59.860 they have an unhealthy relationship with goals 00:36:59.860 --> 00:37:03.400 and goal setting. And he correlated that to the 00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:06.239 people who set these workout goals to lose weight. 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:09.199 And after the month or two that they kind of 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:10.980 given up or didn't start and do their thing, 00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:14.480 they beat themselves up and they feel bad that 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.699 they didn't hit their goal. And I love how much 00:37:16.699 --> 00:37:19.840 energy he put into it and how much energy I'm 00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:21.400 putting into it, how much energy you put into 00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:24.599 these, again, these high energy goal aspects. 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:27.460 Guys, you're setting something that you have 00:37:27.460 --> 00:37:30.500 never done before in most cases. Obviously, you're 00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:33.900 not meant to hit it, but you can measure what 00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:36.199 did you do to get there? And you can enjoy the 00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:38.480 journey and realize like, okay, well, if I didn't 00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.800 know how to fly a plane or how to build a plane. 00:37:42.190 --> 00:37:45.670 ever before. And I actually succeed at it, even 00:37:45.670 --> 00:37:48.829 if it's kind of like a floppy flight. Like you 00:37:48.829 --> 00:37:50.429 did something you've never done before. That's 00:37:50.429 --> 00:37:52.489 freaking cool. Or you at least tried to do it. 00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:55.349 So that's one of my biggest secrets about goals 00:37:55.349 --> 00:37:59.929 for myself is I never get mad at myself for learning 00:37:59.929 --> 00:38:02.530 in the process. I'm always looking at what did 00:38:02.530 --> 00:38:04.550 I learn? How am I going on this? So I'm going 00:38:04.550 --> 00:38:06.309 to share a document real quick. I'm gonna do 00:38:06.309 --> 00:38:08.809 this as fast as I can too. You guys can pause 00:38:08.809 --> 00:38:10.949 this. I'm gonna go back and look at it too, but 00:38:10.949 --> 00:38:13.750 I'm gonna see if this is in somewhat alignment 00:38:13.750 --> 00:38:15.309 with what Phillip's up to or Phillip's gonna 00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:16.969 be like, dude, that's freaking crazy. What are 00:38:16.969 --> 00:38:19.210 you thinking? And Phillip, feel free to hit hard 00:38:19.210 --> 00:38:21.869 on this. So at First Class Business, for all 00:38:21.869 --> 00:38:25.630 of our clients, we need to be doing this. Now 00:38:25.630 --> 00:38:28.130 in that next admission, we have stopped for a 00:38:28.130 --> 00:38:29.949 while. So it's time to get back on the horse. 00:38:30.050 --> 00:38:31.769 Today's the day. We're getting back on the horse 00:38:31.769 --> 00:38:34.599 for this. And this is. Primary objectives, we 00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:37.840 call these OCROs. Primary objectives. Key results 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.800 and outcomes. And there is a big difference for 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.440 us between the key results and the outcomes. 00:38:42.579 --> 00:38:44.980 And so following this document is designed to 00:38:44.980 --> 00:38:47.039 help us define our combined primary objective 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.219 key results so we can ensure that all of our 00:38:49.219 --> 00:38:51.340 efforts to advance our projects are in alignment 00:38:51.340 --> 00:38:54.179 with the desired outcomes. And so there's a previous 00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:55.739 step here that we need the preliminary business 00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:58.579 evaluation. And there's a training video associated 00:38:58.579 --> 00:39:00.860 with how this works. And so I'll try to drop 00:39:00.860 --> 00:39:03.320 these resources into the comments so you guys 00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:06.349 can play with this if you see fit. And it talks 00:39:06.349 --> 00:39:07.889 about following the instructions for setting 00:39:07.889 --> 00:39:10.110 it up. And it talks about the what. What is a 00:39:10.110 --> 00:39:12.849 primary objective? And it is ultimately that 00:39:12.849 --> 00:39:14.409 what are you doing? And then there's these key 00:39:14.409 --> 00:39:17.389 results. The how do you do it? And it tells you, 00:39:17.429 --> 00:39:20.010 you know, don't set more than two to five. A 00:39:20.010 --> 00:39:23.050 key result must be measurable as they are not 00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:25.289 or they're not a key result. That comes from 00:39:25.289 --> 00:39:29.329 Google's investor that created the process. All 00:39:29.329 --> 00:39:30.670 right. So we're going to go past some of this 00:39:30.670 --> 00:39:32.449 down to the outcomes. What is the outcomes to 00:39:32.449 --> 00:39:36.110 me? The outcomes are the why. You know, why did 00:39:36.110 --> 00:39:38.150 we set these primary objectives to secure results? 00:39:38.269 --> 00:39:40.130 That may seem easy to determine and define for 00:39:40.130 --> 00:39:42.309 yourself, but even then, studies show that we 00:39:42.309 --> 00:39:45.349 are less likely to resolve and to complete our 00:39:45.349 --> 00:39:47.510 objectives when we're not consciously aware of 00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:50.289 the benefits of putting in the work. So the challenge 00:39:50.289 --> 00:39:52.989 with that magnifies when we have a team. The 00:39:52.989 --> 00:39:55.230 stronger and more defined your outcomes, the 00:39:55.230 --> 00:39:56.769 more committed you and your team end up becoming 00:39:56.769 --> 00:39:59.730 to ensure that the hard work gets done. So when 00:39:59.730 --> 00:40:01.469 we're talking about outcomes, what I'm referring 00:40:01.469 --> 00:40:05.030 to is adding a layer of gratitude. Basically 00:40:05.030 --> 00:40:08.429 a gratitude journal. Oh, we set this goal to 00:40:08.429 --> 00:40:10.469 make 20 ,000. You know, that's the boring one 00:40:10.469 --> 00:40:13.150 that Philip was talking about. Then we got the 00:40:13.150 --> 00:40:15.409 key results of what's going to determine that. 00:40:15.449 --> 00:40:18.730 We got five new clients at $5 ,000 each. But 00:40:18.730 --> 00:40:22.610 the gratitude log is like, and now I was able 00:40:22.610 --> 00:40:25.230 to take an extra day's vacation. You know, and 00:40:25.230 --> 00:40:27.670 oh, I was able, you know, our team came together 00:40:27.670 --> 00:40:31.510 and we worked on this and we got not just a testimonial, 00:40:31.510 --> 00:40:35.250 but this client is so grateful that. their family's 00:40:35.250 --> 00:40:37.550 life has improved because they're now working 00:40:37.550 --> 00:40:39.929 with us. I'm obviously inventing some things 00:40:39.929 --> 00:40:43.250 here, but as you go through this of, I will measure, 00:40:43.289 --> 00:40:46.110 I will do this as measured by we're adding on 00:40:46.110 --> 00:40:49.309 this will unlock. And these are those outcomes 00:40:49.309 --> 00:40:51.150 I'm talking about. What is it that we're achieving? 00:40:51.630 --> 00:40:54.730 Thanks to this process personally and in business. 00:40:54.789 --> 00:40:57.030 So that's our, that's our breakdown of how we 00:40:57.030 --> 00:40:59.869 measure our OCROS and how we go about this process. 00:41:00.130 --> 00:41:02.630 It may provide some value to you guys. Phillip, 00:41:02.690 --> 00:41:06.570 what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. We use 00:41:06.570 --> 00:41:09.389 a tiny bit different definitions, but something 00:41:09.389 --> 00:41:13.929 very similar. So in our language, the OKRs, the 00:41:13.929 --> 00:41:17.230 key results are the outcomes, but we have a layer 00:41:17.230 --> 00:41:22.349 above them, and that's our impact. And the impact 00:41:22.349 --> 00:41:24.389 is exactly what you're describing here as the 00:41:24.389 --> 00:41:29.050 outcome. So that's really just a matter of definition, 00:41:29.230 --> 00:41:33.659 right? Sure. it's very very similar at the end 00:41:33.659 --> 00:41:38.280 we are we're trying to hit this hit this goal 00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:43.159 measured by and that will achieve that will change 00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:47.139 something in the world and so that's yeah that's 00:41:47.139 --> 00:41:50.719 the impact and so if you yeah if you take the 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:54.440 the water project for example right then maybe 00:41:54.440 --> 00:42:00.170 maybe the goal is to increase fundraising from 00:42:00.170 --> 00:42:05.030 international sources. And their key result might 00:42:05.030 --> 00:42:09.710 be, well, a million dollars from Germany, hopefully. 00:42:09.909 --> 00:42:15.010 And then the impact would be, well, that would 00:42:15.010 --> 00:42:21.090 provide drinkable water for 10 million people 00:42:21.090 --> 00:42:23.690 or however many people, right? But that would 00:42:23.690 --> 00:42:26.690 be a bit of how we would define this impact. 00:42:27.500 --> 00:42:32.679 I would love that. One, you were so diplomatic. 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:36.199 None of that came across as conflict. And so 00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:41.059 I call you out for being a nice guy and respecting 00:42:41.059 --> 00:42:43.280 the process we have. But I did catch you say 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.760 that you have different definitions for objectives 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:49.840 and key results. I'd love to hear what those 00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:54.500 definitions are. So we define the key result 00:42:54.500 --> 00:42:57.480 really as the outcome. the outcome that you're 00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:02.159 trying to drive. And so, yeah, the objective 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:08.340 is the description of our goal and the qualitative 00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:12.739 statement. And so we are trying to bring water 00:43:12.739 --> 00:43:16.980 to more, yeah, we are bringing drinkable water 00:43:16.980 --> 00:43:21.219 to more people through fundraising in Germany. 00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:23.699 I think that would be our objective. And then 00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:31.920 the key result is 10 million euros raised in 00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:35.760 Germany. And then the impact would be, okay, 00:43:35.780 --> 00:43:39.900 that's creating drinkable water for a million 00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:43.579 people. That would be how we would define our 00:43:43.579 --> 00:43:49.539 terms. That's so interesting because it can be 00:43:49.539 --> 00:43:52.880 broken down multiple ways. And does that ever 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:57.039 create like confusion amongst the team? Like, 00:43:57.079 --> 00:43:59.500 well, wait, is this a what or is this a how? 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.619 Do you guys ever go through that? Because I find 00:44:02.619 --> 00:44:05.619 myself going through that way too often. Yeah, 00:44:05.619 --> 00:44:11.800 sure. Sure. It does happen. Like, yes. And so 00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:16.199 that's also where I'm not dogmatic and more pragmatic. 00:44:16.380 --> 00:44:19.599 And it's not, oh, you know, you're not filling 00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:23.670 out. this form for Philip and you need to hit 00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:26.789 it. You know, the exercise isn't to make the 00:44:26.789 --> 00:44:33.070 goal setting guru happy, right? The goal of all 00:44:33.070 --> 00:44:36.610 of this is that you and your team feel energized 00:44:36.610 --> 00:44:40.389 and that you, your, your team have clarity on 00:44:40.389 --> 00:44:43.690 what you need to do today and why you're doing 00:44:43.690 --> 00:44:46.969 it and that you can prioritize the right actions. 00:44:47.130 --> 00:44:51.010 And so, and then feel motivated to, to go towards 00:44:51.010 --> 00:44:55.190 them. And so I'm, yeah, that's why I'm never 00:44:55.190 --> 00:44:57.889 like, Oh, this isn't a great key result, right? 00:44:57.949 --> 00:45:00.230 That's, that's not really, that's not really 00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:03.269 a helpful feedback. That's not the point. I freaking 00:45:03.269 --> 00:45:05.949 love that. You just unlocked something in me 00:45:05.949 --> 00:45:11.550 because I think subconsciously my, my, my ego 00:45:11.550 --> 00:45:14.889 does associate with this. So as soon as you said, 00:45:15.010 --> 00:45:17.349 this is not about making the goal setting guru 00:45:17.349 --> 00:45:22.250 happy. I was like, Oh shoot. I'm probably so 00:45:22.250 --> 00:45:26.429 guilty of that. It happens so often, right? Then 00:45:26.429 --> 00:45:28.349 you go into a room and then everyone wants to 00:45:28.349 --> 00:45:32.170 get the OKRs beautiful. But hey, not the point. 00:45:32.590 --> 00:45:35.690 Dang, man. I love that. That's going to have 00:45:35.690 --> 00:45:38.590 a very big impact on my year. Thank you. This 00:45:38.590 --> 00:45:42.610 has been awesome. This has been so good. And 00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:46.690 it is fairly easy for me to get energized about 00:45:46.690 --> 00:45:51.429 the goal process. that energy can be used in 00:45:51.429 --> 00:45:53.909 a way that that ego ends up demotivating others 00:45:53.909 --> 00:45:57.070 um and so we've got to be careful as people who 00:45:57.070 --> 00:46:00.349 are goal -oriented of being more inviting and 00:46:00.349 --> 00:46:03.349 more inspiring to those who may not be as brought 00:46:03.349 --> 00:46:07.369 into that process and the demeanor the approach 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.320 The leadership that you've just graced me with 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:12.980 today is going to help me shift a lot in relation 00:46:12.980 --> 00:46:15.420 to that. And I hope other vision pros out there, 00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:17.820 you guys learn to pick up some of these things 00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:22.179 as well. The takeaway for myself on this is that 00:46:22.179 --> 00:46:25.760 there's no wrong way to eat a Reese's, right? 00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:28.699 There's no wrong way to really set a goal unless 00:46:28.699 --> 00:46:32.380 that goal is demotivating, unless it's pulling 00:46:32.380 --> 00:46:37.199 the energy away and ultimately disrupting the 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.739 journey. And so that's my final takeaway on this, 00:46:40.780 --> 00:46:42.920 my fortune cookie to the world. If you had a 00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:44.820 fortune cookie of the world, Philip, or you had 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:47.920 one final thought that this was the last time 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:52.139 you got to speak and share something about goals 00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:54.940 and creation and helping visionaries, what would 00:46:54.940 --> 00:47:01.300 it be? Yeah. Set goals not as contracts, but 00:47:01.300 --> 00:47:06.099 as opportunities for learning. And then go and 00:47:06.099 --> 00:47:10.380 learn. and improve and get better and then the 00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:12.639 world will be yours it's good it's gonna be good 00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.679 i love that and visionaries as you do that as 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:17.059 you write that down and get ready to do that 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.380 Click on the button on visionproslive .com that 00:47:20.380 --> 00:47:22.739 says be our guest and come and share those goals 00:47:22.739 --> 00:47:24.460 with us. Come and share the vision of what you're 00:47:24.460 --> 00:47:26.000 up to and what you're creating, because that's 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.000 really what this is all about. It's empowering 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.199 you to get out there and do it and find yourself 00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:32.599 in a circle of mentors and friends and leaders 00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:34.760 and people who want to help bring that together. 00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:36.599 And we look forward to seeing you guys all in 00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:38.260 the next episode. Philip, again, thanks for all 00:47:38.260 --> 00:47:41.300 of the wisdom that you shared with us and best 00:47:41.300 --> 00:47:43.340 wishes with Wave9 and with your family and with 00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:44.719 your book publishing and everything else you're 00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:47.929 up to. Thank you so much. Absolutely. We'll see 00:47:47.929 --> 00:47:49.510 you guys. We'll see you guys on the next episode. 00:47:49.650 --> 00:47:51.630 Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy 00:47:51.630 --> 00:47:53.869 that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking 00:47:53.869 --> 00:47:57.110 forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes 00:47:57.110 --> 00:47:58.909 continue to move forward. This is going to get 00:47:58.909 --> 00:48:01.550 more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement 00:48:01.550 --> 00:48:03.630 as well. We'll invite people to participate in 00:48:03.630 --> 00:48:05.789 the show. And thank you for giving us your time 00:48:05.789 --> 00:48:08.090 and attention. Have an excellent time building 00:48:08.090 --> 00:48:10.429 out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.