Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Vision Pros Live. I'm your host and coach,
Fletcher Ollingson. So glad you're here. I'm
so glad that you are in this conversation where
we invite professionals, experts, visionaries
on to share their vision. Today on the show,
we have Andrew Legrand from the Sparrow Law Group.
And Andrew, welcome to the show. Thanks so much
for having me, Fletcher. Happy to be here. Yeah,
yeah, right on. Hey, before we dive into what
you do and how you help people and you do help
people, we're going to be talking about some
of the important work you do. I want to know
what's going well in your life. What's a win?
Because there's a lot of uncertainty and suffering
in the world. Let's remind people that there
is still good and that we can intentionally create
good. Yeah, so I guess I'm a lawyer by background,
and we had a business client come to us with
a particular issue, a booking issue with Marriott.
Something very funny happened. Booked a great
hotel room. Thought it was going to be way cheaper.
Marriott charged them way more than they thought
it was going to be. And they did the whole credit
card chargeback thing. And we're a small law
firm of five. And so we were punching up above
our weight class to go after Marriott. And we
were able to negotiate a settlement where our
client was able to pay with points. And he was
able to get all his cash back. We got that done
last week. And then I saw the client at a party
Saturday night. He was happy, but his wife was
even more excited because she was the one that
actually created the issue, which I did not know
about. So she said, oh, my God, thank you so
much for helping us with that. And so that was
a really good to get that in -person feedback.
Yeah, right on. Right on. Always helps. Feels
good to help people resolve an issue. Right.
Always. Yeah. Yeah. Cool, man. Hey, Andrew. Yes.
Like you said, you're a lawyer with the Sparrow
Law Group and specifically you. um help a lot
of uh you you help small businesses is that accurate
depends what you mean by small you know sometimes
either there can be multi -million dollar companies
and not all food trucks but yeah we typically
work with with small and medium enterprises we're
not working with 500s and that sort of thing
but yeah yeah which is great because um every
business owner small medium business they have
vulnerabilities And there are going to be times
when there are issues that arise that require
legal assistance. And we never want that to happen,
but it is a reality. And so that is your specialty.
That's your niche. Is that accurate? Yeah, we
can go into a little bit more detail about that.
We're almost business coaches in a way that a
lot of legal problems stem out of just business
issues. I can give some examples. Ideally, we
want to prevent it, right? So you said a lot
of times a business owner needs a legal coach.
Our position and my vision, as I'll talk about,
is actually how do we make it to where legal
is more accessible to where you're calling the
lawyer before there's a dumpster fire and it's
super expensive. Yeah, okay, good, good, good.
So tell me more about that. What is your vision
and how do you help people? So we help business
owners avoid stupid legal mistakes as their fractional
general counsel without charging them by the
hour. So our theory, one of the things that I've
seen, I started this firm in 2012, and in that
almost 14 years or so, one of the problems we
continually see is that a business owner comes
to us with a big, hairy problem that's going
to be either incredibly expensive to fix or it's...
Frankly, sometimes it's just not fixable. And
so they come with this problem and we look at
it and we start to dig into what caused the problem.
And a lot of times it's something that could
have been easily avoided with just a little bit
of advice. Right. Five minutes, 10 minutes, 50
minutes, 30 minutes. Not a whole lot of advice
up front could have prevented this big, ugly
situation that they're now in. And so we asked
ourselves, why did that happen? Why do we keep
getting business owners who are coming to a lawyer,
you know, after the game is over, once the ship
has already sailed? And one of our hypotheses
is that it's the hourly rate, right? Is, you
know, I think I have this issue and it doesn't
hurt enough to call my lawyer or you have an
issue, but you're not a lawyer. So you don't
even recognize it's an issue yet. So why are
you going to call your lawyer to just, you know?
chit -chat about something when they're charging
several hundred dollars an hour yeah so our vision
and we're already doing is we don't charge by
the hour at all we either do things on a subscription
basis or a flat fee basis and what that's done
is we call it up front and win pricing and so
every time a client never gets a surprise bill
from us they know what they're paying before
they engage us and it's win -win meaning Your
incentive now, my incentive is to help you find
and resolve problems because then I keep you
as a client. And that's a win to you. Whereas
if I'm billing you by the hour, I actually don't
want to give you 20 minutes of advice to avoid
the big problem. My financial incentive, and
lawyers don't really admit this, but if you narrow
in on the financial incentive, my financial incentive
is for you to get in trouble so that you're a
client for two or three years in litigation and
I can charge you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
So my vision is how do we get rid of this hourly
rate that creates this conflict between a business
owner and their attorney when the relationship
should be something that is it's ongoing, it's
proactive, it's preventative. And it does not
it is not I've been sued. Let me call my lawyer.
It's a hey, let me call my lawyer because I've
got this customer service issue. And my lawyer
can help me think about how how I can prevent
the actual lawsuit from ever happening. Yeah.
You know what? i am so excited about this conversation
um and here's why because i do fall into the
camper like i don't want to talk to a freaking
lawyer no way don't trust the lawyer don't um
and i think they charge you know, ridiculous
pricing. And this is just, this is, I'm not saying
you're pricing, you're risking, but you know,
this is a knee jerk reaction, right? I feel like
they have me over a barrel. I feel like there's
a certain lack of integrity, all the common,
common thoughts that people have about this industry,
right? Because we hear about it or we've experienced
it. So I'm excited about this conversation. Number
one, because You're letting some of my steam
blow out. Right. You're what you're what you're
doing is you're you're giving me a little bit
of hope about this industry. So and I love what
you said. You're talking about a subscription
basis or upfront pricing because no one likes
to get a surprise bill. Now, like, can we just
can we just have a service provided that we know
what the upfront. cost is going to be all right
i mean like most industries perform that way
so and this is an important industry that we
all have to deal with so thank you number one
i really appreciate that you're stepping uh uh
bringing forth this way of conducting business
because it brings back a level a sense of integrity
that i feel has been missing And you start to
bring back some trust and build confidence, which
is a beautiful thing. And the other thing, too,
is that what I hear you saying is you're making
it way more accessible for business owners. And
small to moderate -sized businesses, frankly,
they don't all have this massive budget to retain
attorneys, right? So you're making it that much
more accessible. I love this idea. How can people
learn more about it? I know you're Chicago -based.
Is that accurate? I'm New Orleans -based. New
Orleans. Okay. I thought I saw something on your
website about Chicago. I must have been looking
at somebody else's. So you're New Orleans -based,
and where can you practice? So me and the other
attorney in the firm were both licensed in Louisiana
and Texas. And I would say depending on the size
of the business, there are a lot of federal issues
we can help with as well. So on the very small
end of the scale, if somebody is in Chicago,
we might not be the best fit for them. I know
other attorneys there who are doing the same
thing. I'm not the only attorney doing this kind
of thing. So there are more of us, and we'll
happily refer somebody out to a better fit. you
know we can work with businesses like i said
a lot of what we do is we don't litigate typically
um which is kind of one of those things that
you have to be licensed in that state so to walk
into court and represent somebody in that state
you absolutely have to be licensed very clear
but a lot of what we do is not necessarily legal
And so just to give you an example, Friday I
got a call from a client. They sell appliances
and they had a customer who came into the store
and was upset because they had bought an appliance.
They got it installed by my client and now the
washing machine had damaged their home. Right.
And so this is day zero. Like the first person
they called was me. There's no lawsuit. Right.
There's nothing else out there. They're paying
us monthly. So they're incentivized to use us
now. Right. Yeah. I'll resolve this without the
lawyer and won't incur the fees. It's like you're
already paying for it. Call me. And we want that
to happen. And so we're able to coach that client
through the idea of. Well, look, let's ask them
if they have a report from the plumber. Let's
send one of our own staff out there to get photos
and video and document what's actually happening.
And then there was just some coaching about,
you know, let's assume for a minute that this
client is right. And from a customer standpoint,
customer service standpoint, you have to assume
they're right, even if they're trying to defraud
you. You have to approach it with this mindset
because that lawsuit. could come typically people
go in lawsuits not just because like something
bad happened right if we fix this and make it
great there's not going to be a lawsuit right
people file lawsuits especially in this sort
of thing when they're upset about how they were
treated so just to try to prevent that lawsuit
it's like hey treat this person with with kindness
and respect and let's assume that it's actually
either an issue with the install or that it's
an issue with the equipment because there were
some facts there that My client was kind of doubting
that it was actually a problem that they had
created, which, again, anybody in business knows
that clients come to you with things that aren't
your problem and blame it on you. But from a
mindset perspective, it was let's assume that
maybe it was even the manufacturer's issue. We
didn't do anything wrong, but somebody from our
side of the transaction had. And so I talked
to them on Friday for 15, 20 minutes, gave them
some of that quick advice. Also asked them, hey,
let's look at your insurance and see if we have
coverage. So these are all kind of chess pieces
that we're now three steps ahead of the whole
situation because I was the first person they
called because we're on their team. And we didn't
have to sit there and figure out how long. They
didn't have to go through the uncertainty of
how much is this going to cost? andrew's talking
about this that and the other he's droning on
and he's in my head i'm i'm dragging on or kind
of slowing down the conversation to give me more
time to think to give this client more value
but i'm not i'm not earning more money by making
the conversation longer i'm making the conversation
longer so i can give more value to my client
because again my incentive is let me help them
through this issue they'll be happy they'll stick
with us Yeah, I like that. And there's a couple
things that you mentioned that are really key.
Number one, you're on their team. You know, when
you are on a subscription type basis there, yeah,
you can shift your mindset to like, oh, I have
a legal team here. So I'm going to use them.
And this is the other thing that you said, I'm
going to use them proactively instead of reactively.
And that is great. i love that concept um and
that that was the answer to your question by
the way of can you work with people around the
country none of that required a law degree right
none of that actually required a license and
so it's we find that a lot of our business clients
come to us with these business issues that if
left unchecked they they become a legal issue
that might require a lawyer to go to court for
you but that that is not something we want So
we're thinking about it like lawyers, right?
Send out a tech out there to get photos and videos
because if they're lying, I want that in court.
So we have that mindset and that training. Let's
look at your insurance. Send me your policy.
I haven't looked at this policy. I don't know
if you have coverage for it yet. Let's actually
read the freaking 80 -page document that's hard
as hell to read and figure out what our coverage
is for this and what's our deductible. How much
is it going to cost us to fix? So again, thinking
like a lawyer, but under most rules, is that
really legal advice? Right. Probably not. So
we have worked with clients before across the
country that want that sort of level of service
where it's, hey, think about this. And then if
they need a lawyer in that state, you know, we're
typically in a better position to say, hey, this
is the type of lawyer you need. This is the experience
you need. Let us work our contact list and find
somebody and interview that person and figure
out who you need and bring them in. Oh, cool.
What a great service. This is really cool. And
I also like that you. advise your client to consider,
like, this could be your responsibility, right?
Like, I think as business owners, we also, instead
of just rushing to be reactive and defensive,
like, oh, maybe this is our issue. Or let's assume
for a moment that it is and be prepared to take
responsibility. Very cool. Andrew, this has been
a great conversation. I'm feeling good about
like, oh, cool. There's attorneys out there that
are looking really for to have our best interest.
And I don't mean to paint with such a broad stroke,
but it's just an industry that has a lot of people
have hard feelings about. So thank you for bringing
a new spotlight to what's possible. And if people
do want to get in touch with you, learn more.
How do they get in touch with you? I'm on LinkedIn.
Just Andrew Legrand, Sparrow Law Group. S as
in Sam, P as in Paul, ERA. You can go to our
website. We actually have our pricing on our
website. Whoa, cool. We have a process now to
onboard people. That's part of the upfront pricing,
right? I mean, what is this going to cost? What
am I going to get? So we've been running subscriptions.
I sold the first one for us in 2013. So we have
over a decade of experience in this. And we're
just continuing to get better in this. Right
on. Right on. The mindset you expressed at the
beginning of the call about being scared and
untrusting. That's to your point. Yeah. Yeah.
All right. Well, hey, our guest today has been
Andrew Legrand from Sparrow Law Group. And this
has been an enlightening conversation for me.
I hope it has been for you, too. And if you want
to connect with them, do. And now it's time for
you to get out there. Be a source of kindness.
Be a source of contribution. You do have something
to offer this world. And I believe in you. Thank
you for being here today. I'm really happy that
you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking
forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward. This is going to get
more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement
as well. We'll invite people to participate in
the show. And thank you for giving us your time
and attention. Have an excellent time building
out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.