Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Vision Pros Live. I'm your host and coach,
Fletcher Ellingson. So glad you're here. I'm
so glad you're in this conversation. Today on
the show, we're gonna be meeting with John Abrams.
And John is a speaker, he's an author, and he's
committed to transforming businesses into a force
for good. How he does that, we'll get to that
in a moment. But first, welcome to the show,
John. It's so nice to be here, Fletcher. Thanks
for having me. Yeah, absolutely. You're calling
by Martha's Vineyard, you said, right? On the
little island of Martha's Vineyard off the coast
of Massachusetts. Right on. And you recently
wrote a book. It's called From Founder to Future.
But we're going to get that in just a minute.
But I want to first ask you a question. The reason
I'm asking you this, John, is because there's
a lot of uncertainty. There's a lot of suffering
in our world. It's easy to focus on what's not
going well. That's always available to us. But
I want to remind our listeners and our viewers
that what also is available to us is what's going
well. And we always have a choice of where to
put our focus. And that focus determines how
we feel internally, which then affects the actions
that we take in the physical world. So remind
us of something that's going well, John. What's
going well in your life personally and or professionally?
Well, you're talking my language, Fletcher, because
I'm always looking at the good stuff and there's
plenty of it to find. At the end of 2022, after
50 years running a company called South Mountain
Company, which I had converted to employee ownership
many years before, I passed it on to second -generation
leadership and went on to other things in my
life, which I'll say about. But right now, a
couple of years later, I get to watch this company
that I love so much that I put my heart and soul
into. And it is thrilling to see this incredibly
aligned leadership team that is taking it to
new places. And what I'm seeing is that they
are likely with tools and resources unimaginable
25 years ago. They're going to take it to places
that my casual style of leadership probably never
could have. So it's fun to watch them do their
stuff. Boy, that is neat. You know what I really
appreciate about that is that like you had, this
is a tremendous win. Like you put in the effort,
you had the vision and you implemented it. And
then it took on a life of its own and went to
a place that you just said like, you know, I
may not have had the ability to take it to that
place, but because of the collaboration. It happened.
And that's exciting to watch, isn't it? It's
so exciting. And one of the things about it is
that we had this very intentional three year
period where we worked relentlessly to build
the internal leadership capacity to replace me
and take it to its next 50 years. And yeah, we
never hired anybody from outside. It all came
from inside. Yeah. So cool. Now, there are going
to be some people who are listening or watching
this who are not really super familiar with that
concept of employee -owned businesses. Kind of
inform us, what does that mean? So, well, I just
wrote 250 pages to say what it means. But in
a nutshell, I mean, right now. There are 3 million
small businesses in the U .S. with founders over
55. And something is going to happen. The silver
tsunami is happening. Something's going to happen
to each of those businesses over the next 15
years. Trillions of dollars in wealth will change
hands. And, you know, there are many things.
Some are handed down within families. Some will,
many, not finding a buyer, will close the doors,
leaving gaps on Main Street, losing jobs. Some
will be swallowed up by rapacious private equity.
And those businesses in many places will be taken
out of their community, saddled with debt, carved
up and sold for parts. And, you know, I talked
to many people. who sell to private equity and
They wish that their mission could be continued
and their purpose could continue to be fulfilled
It doesn't and they end up with fat wallets and
broken hearts So here's the thing Fletcher that
most business advisors bankers lawyers accountants
financial planners succession consultants don't
know the employee ownership options available
so in many cases these owners could be selling
to their employees get rewarded for their investment
and reward those people who helped them build
the business in the first place so this is such
a wonderful option and there are many forms of
employee ownership i happen to be partial to
the worker co -op just because i have so much
experience with it but there are employee ownership
trusts there are esops which most people are
familiar with and this book was really intended
to speak to business owners who are unfamiliar
with these options and my hope in the book is
that there are a lot of stories in the book of
exemplary businesses and there is a lot of information
on the in the book And my hope is that readers,
if you're a business person and you read this
book, that you're going to go, oh, my God, with
one of the forms of employee ownership or one
of the stories. That sounds like me. I could
do that. That's that fulfills my aspirations
and they will latch on to it and find a path.
Yeah. Yeah. Well said. And what I really want
to have our our listeners. here is this one thing
you said. This is an opportunity to reward the
very people who helped you build that business.
And that is a beautiful gift of contribution.
Because as most business owners and entrepreneurs
know, I mean, if they're really honest with themselves,
you didn't do it by yourself. You really didn't.
You didn't build that road all by yourself. You
had the vision you put in and we're not taking
anything away from you. You put in so much blood,
sweat and tears. No doubt about it. Took huge
risks that others were not willing to take. And
you had to eventually have the team in order
to have it turn into what it is. And so this
is an opportunity to think newly. About how to
continue this business while rewarding and empowering
the people who helped you build it along the
way. Absolutely. And, you know, I always say
that my career was made up of learning different.
skills and acquiring different abilities in a
half -baked way that was just enough that I could
recognize and attract people that could do all
those things better than I could do them. And
that's how you put together a team and build
a culture of ownership. So ownership, there's
the transactional part of ownership, which means
a lot to people to be an owner. instead of just
an employee is huge. But there's also the emotional
part and the culture of ownership. And when people
feel that, they pull together and you just get
a different level of commitment from people and
performance. Oh, absolutely. Now, there are a
couple of businesses that I'm thinking about
specifically. I don't think they're employee
-owned, but I... maybe no i don't think employee
own but they they have they have developed and
cultivated this culture of um buy -in from their
employees i'm thinking specifically of trader
joe's and costco yeah longevity in their employees
and every time i go in there You feel it, right?
High quality. Yes, exactly. You feel it. I mean,
Costco is so amazingly different from every other
big box store. It is. Absolutely. And that's
not by accident. That is by design, right? Yes.
Yeah. They invest in their employees. And so
the employees feel like they have a stake in
that business. Now, one that comes to mind that
is employee -owned, that I think if you've ever
been to Ann Arbor, Michigan, and been to Zingerman's.
I haven't. Zingerman's started out as a little
deli, and now it's the Zingerman's community
of businesses with maybe 750 employees and $80
million. a year in revenue and it is owned it's
it's really owned by a a purpose trust and um
and you walk in there to get your pastrami sandwich
and you feel i'm in a different place there's
a different level of service that the smiles
are genuine there's there's an authentic culture
that transmits and they've been incredibly successful
and i think because of that you know yeah It's
not because of the pastrami. The pastrami is
good, but it's all the rest of it, too. Absolutely.
Oh, such good stuff. Hey, so the show here is
called Vision Pros Live, right? And so I'm going
to ask you just to sum up for us, John, what
is your vision? So my vision is that, and I may
overreach a bit, but that this notion. And this
book can be an antidote in some modest way to
the spirit of cruelty and wealth inequality.
And we're not in a great place. in our country
right today. I think we're in a valley. We'll
come out of it. But I'm hoping that this book
will help to bring back the sense of kindness
and caring and respect that has distinguished
America for centuries, right? And so, you know,
in any little way that I can to help that, that's
my vision. That's what I want to do. Boy, I totally
resonate with that. I'm a huge fan of deliberate
and intentional kindness, like leading with kindness,
because I actually believe a kindness unifies
instead of divides. And so if we all lean into
kindness, oh my gosh, less division, more unification,
right? Absolutely. Yeah. And so essentially this
book is an ode. to the america to come the one
where we'll all share the bounty and on this
long journey of um towards liberty and justice
for all we've never made it yet but we're on
that journey and hopefully this can push down
that path well i want i want to acknowledge you
and appreciate you for the intentions you've
set out for and for experimenting in your life
to the point where you arrive to this conclusion
and are taking action on it. So, you know, I
want to thank you for being a source of kindness
and contribution and spreading this message.
It is a big deal because small and medium -sized
businesses, they're the heartbeat of this country
still today. They really, really are. And I want
to tell you, Fletcher, that when... When I sold
my company to myself and my employees, it was
scary. And what was scary about it was relinquishing
full control. What if this thing that I had built,
that I loved, came to be something that I didn't
love anymore? And that was the fear. And that
fear was... proven to be um i mean it felt kind
of like tugging on the reins of a runaway horse
we had this idea and then we were off and running
and it was it was an exciting path forward to
the unknown but it turns out that my fears were
completely unfounded i came to love it more and
um and it just became even more of a source of
joy in my life where you know i always had this
thing about work that work was work i never was
able to separate work from play ever since i
had a paper route when i was 12 years old i loved
that and and um so This company for me was this
thing. It was like a magnet every morning when
I woke up. I get to go out there and work with
these people all day long and I get paid for
this shit. Oh, my God. So that was. Right on.
To be so fortunate, right? Yeah, I feel like
a very lucky man. Yeah, yeah. Good, good, good.
So your book is called From Founder to Future,
yes? Yes. A business roadmap to impact longevity
and employee ownership. Great, great. If people
are listening to this and maybe they've been
thinking about this, maybe they're new to this
concept, but they want to find out more how to
get your book or maybe even connect with you.
Or maybe there's an owner that's like, no, I
need to have a conversation with this guy because
I literally have been thinking about transitioning
to this model, but don't know how because it's
not real popular. How can we best connect with
you? abramsangel .com. And that's A -B -R -A
-M -S -A -N -G -E -L -L .com. And I'm always
happy to have a conversation with anybody. And
I have, you know, from the research for this
book and from many, many years of network building,
I know a lot of people in this field and I can't
Often I can't do the work, but I can refer people
to others. Got it. OK. Yeah. I love that, too.
Right. When we can't do the work ourselves, we've
got a resource of people where we can direct
you. And we I mean, we need to know when it's
enough. You know, we can't do everything. And
so collaboration makes makes our influence reach
further. Yeah. Now you've got you've got another
team member. that I see on the website. Kim?
Yes. Kim is my life partner and she does different
work. Sometimes we work together. She helps businesses
become more efficient and she does tax work,
state planning. I do the ownership conversions.
got it okay great great so you got you got a
couple uh unique irons in the fire there between
the two of you right on um john so good to have
you on the show today appreciate you um taking
the time with us we would love to have you back
again and i would love specifically to hear some
some stories where you have been involved with
helping businesses transition, because I think
it's important for people to hear like how that
goes from a from a start to finish. So we can
mentally conceptualize that and maybe empower
people to take that action. OK, but I would love
to tell those stories. That would be great. And
I love what you're doing. I really appreciate
it. Thank you for being here today. I'm really
happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions
as these episodes continue to move forward. This
is going to get more and more fun. We'll have
more and more engagement as well. We'll invite
people to participate in the show. And thank
you for giving us your time and attention. Have
an excellent time building out your vision and
becoming a vision pro yourself.