Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Vision Pros Live. I'm your host and coach,
Fletcher Ellingson. So glad you're here, so glad
that you're in this conversation. Today, we're
talking with Mr. Jim Carlo, and Jim Carlo is
the author of The Six Pillars of Effective Leadership,
A Roadmap to Success. I'm looking forward to
this conversation. I love talking about leadership.
I think it's an important topic. And so, Jim,
welcome to the show. Well, Fletcher, thank you
for having me. I'm really excited to be here
to talk to you and to answer your questions and
also to talk to your audience. Right on. Well,
before we get into the meat of the conversation,
I always like to start off with the wind, something
that's going well professionally or personally
for you. What can you share with us? So the sheer
fact that we're having this conversation is a
win. And the reason I say that is. When I was
growing up, I always heard people say, if you
were born a leader, you'll lead. And I don't
accept that. And I'm a testament to that. And
the fact that we're having this conversation.
And the reason I say that is even though I've
led companies, if I look at my DNA and my heritage,
my dad was a carpenter. His dad was a mason.
My great grandfather was a chicken farmer. There's
no boardroom people in that DNA chain anywhere.
And so the sheer fact that you and I are going
to have a conversation on leadership and that
I've been in leadership for 30 plus years is
a big win because I think we have something we
can give back to your audience. Right on. Right
on. I appreciate that. And something you said
on there in that. caught my attention. And I
also saw it on your website, jimcarlo .com. And
what you said was, leaders aren't born leaders,
they become leaders. That is absolutely correct.
Tell me a little bit more about that. And the
reason I want to highlight this is because, to
me, this is an exciting concept. This is right.
I mean, because so many people have this belief
like, oh, they were born a leader. Right. But
what you're saying is something that's challenging
that notion. So tell me more. So when I look
at leadership and what we do in this country
and probably around the world as well, we typically
take an individual contributor who has done a
great job at something. We tap them on the shoulder
and say, Fletcher, we're going to make you a
manager. You're going to now lead this team.
And we shake your hand. You go home. You tell
your spouse that you're going to be a leader.
You're going to be a manager. You tell your close
friends. And one of your friends says to you,
Fletcher, you've never managed people before.
How are you going to do that? And you realize,
oh, my God, I got to lead these people. How am
I going to do that? And so what I've learned
in mentoring of others the last 25 years is that
a lot of people enter management without an understanding
of how to work with people and how to manage
people. And that's where the six pillars come
in. The six pillars, I was first introduced to
the first pillar, which is integrity, which to
me is non -negotiable, in November of 1983. I
was fresh out of college. I ran for a city councilman
position in the hometown I grew up in. And I
won. Twenty two years old. The city administrator
asked if I could come in and have a chat with
him. And I sat down with him and he said, Jim,
he said, congratulations. Big win. You're a smart
guy. He said, you're going to do this town a
lot of good. He said, but I have one favor to
ask you. What's that? He said, every night when
you put your head on the pillow, I want you to
ask yourself this one question. Did you do or
did I do anything today for my own personal benefit
that was at the expense of another individual
group of individuals or organization? And he
said, if you can say no. to that question, you
can rest peacefully. But if you said yes to that
question, you need to, before you go to bed,
do two things. Number one, figure out how to
unwind it. And if you aren't successful with
doing that, also figure out how to never repeat
that again. I have led my entire professional
career in life asking myself that very question.
every night to this day. That is a neat story.
And I appreciate what you're bringing to the
table here because what you're talking about
is an extremely high level of personal integrity.
Absolutely correct. And I think more than any
time in our history, we need that in this country.
I was on... a podcast the other day or earlier
this week with a gentleman out of Shanghai. And
we talked about how integrity is lacking around
the world. And we got into a deep conversation.
And to me, integrity is the foundation. If you
look at it from a pillar perspective, it's the
center pole holding up the tip of the roof. But
it's really the foundational thing that everything
else is built on. Because if you don't have integrity,
your team is not going to trust you. If you don't
have transparency, your team is not going to
follow you and not buy into your vision. And
so to me, it's non -negotiable because without
it, you can't lead with compassion. You can't
show empathy. I often describe the leader who
is always running an organization, but always
changing out the people immediately below them.
And I call that the switching of the chairs on
the Titanic, because eventually that's going
to get discovered and that person in leadership
is going to be removed. But until that time,
the moving of the chairs, the reality is that
Titanic is still going to sink at some point.
It's just going to take some time. Yeah, yeah.
You know, yeah, well said. And I want to bring
another example for our listeners as well about
integrity. This is a topic that's near and dear
to my heart, integrity and being your word. I
think being your word is synonymous with integrity,
doing what you say you will do. Boy, for much
of my life, I was so out of integrity, meaning
I did not do what I said I was going to do. And
I thought it was totally fine. I was just used
to that. I was practiced at breaking my word
all over the place. And then I wondered why.
i wasn't able to produce the outcomes that i
wanted to produce um but i also want to invite
our listeners to consider integrity as as workability
um right so like for instance if you think of
a of a a wheel on a a 10 speed bicycle or a or
a bicycle with you know spokes Those spokes are
there and they're evenly spaced and they have
a specific tautness to them so that the bicycle
has structural integrity. And those spokes are
so important. They are what is providing structural
integrity for that wheel. Now, if you loosen
or pull out a couple of the spokes, you diminish
the structural integrity, the workability of
that wheel. Can you still ride it? Yeah. Can
you begin to notice it's not quite as tight,
a tighter ride? Yes, you can. And if you pull
out even more of them, the wheel begins to fail.
I like to invite our readers to think about integrity
as also workability. Like what's the workability
that you're bringing to the organization? What's
the workability that you're bringing to your
marriage, to your parenting, to your life? Does
that resonate? It absolutely does. It absolutely
does. You remove enough of those spokes, that
wheel collapses. Yeah. You know, so you've got
to have that structural integrity. Otherwise,
that wheel cannot perform the way you're expecting
it to. And it will not be safe to ride at some
point. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. Yeah. Would
you say that that integrity is core to an effective
leadership? Absolutely. Which is why I say it's
non -negotiable. And people who have worked with
me, I've been blessed and have had a great career.
But and I've had the luxury of having some people
follow me to other places of employment because
they know what they're going to get. They know
that I I breed success and I want everybody to
be successful and we're going to win together.
And they know that they're going to be treated
well. They know they're going to be. Talk to
straight with a leader who has transparency and
everybody knows their role and function and how
we're going to get along and get things done
and what the end game is. Yeah. And what we have
to achieve. Right on. So I got a question for
you. And the question is because the show is
called Vision Pros. So we want to know, Jim,
what is your vision? My vision. is I want to
be responsible for the next level of leaders
that have to run companies, organizations, and
whatever. The whole premise and the whole reason
I wrote the book was to really give everybody
the same roadmap I've given people that I've
mentored over the last 25 years and to give them
that structure because nobody really does that.
Corporations don't do that. But you can pick
up this book and it's implementable. And there's
exercises that you can do for each one of the
pillars. And in addition to that, I also reference
other people in industry or politics worldwide
who use those pillars or a specific pillar in
their management style. So I don't want to be
perceived as the expert. I'm just somebody who's
had success. I want to share that success. And
my vision is to really take this to a bigger
audience because I really think the timing of
the messaging is important and the time is right.
And the second thing is I know I can help more
people. Nice. So what I heard you say in that.
is that your vision is really to influence current
and upcoming leaders. Is that accurate? It's
important to current and upcoming people. And
there's probably somebody in your audience who
was like me, who said, do I want to be a leader?
I don't know. Right. There's somebody out there
thinking that. And and I can give you the roadmap
of the I can't give you the knowledge about the
financial statements or health of your company.
That's not my thing. But I can teach you if you
know your products and services and all the things
about your company, I can teach you the things
and the principles that have gotten me to where
I am and to the success that I've had. And a
lot of these things are soft skills. But they're
needed skills and they take time to develop.
Yeah, they take time to develop it. And and then
you have to practice them. Right. Practice them.
And it's evolving. So I tell that. So I mentioned
already 1983, my first management job outside
of college back in the 80s, like the 70s, management
was still very authoritarian. almost like militaristic,
where a manager or a leader would basically dictate
what has to get done on a daily or weekly basis.
And the troops went out and they did that. Yeah.
Today, it's not that at all. In fact, I once
told somebody at dinner, I think I have to look
up those people I first managed. I owe them an
apology. I was horrible. When I think about how
I lead today. It has evolved. Collaboration is
king, right? If you're in my organization, we're
collaborating all the time because four heads
are better than one. And I don't have all the
answers, but working together with a group of
people, we can get the answer. You know what?
I got to pause here because this past 60, 90
seconds, this is my favorite part of this conversation.
This is so powerful because here you are talking
about leadership. And what you just said is,
gosh, you know what? If I could go back or maybe
I need to call some of those people because I
owe them an apology. That's powerful. You were
doing your best back at the beginning when you
were teaching people. You've grown, you've evolved,
you've adapted, right? You've expanded your knowledge
base. And you have all this additional experience
and you look back and go, oh, whoa, there were
some things that maybe I was off the mark on
or I should update. I love that because what
that gives evidence to is the type of leader
that you are, that you're willing to own mistakes
or own shortcomings or own that there's a better
way to do it now. That's powerful. I love that.
Well, thank you. But it's true. But it's true.
And but it talks about the evolution. Right.
And so when you decide that you want to be a
leader, you're going to be a leader 24 seven.
And, you know, somebody asked me once in an interview,
when does leadership begin for you? Is it begin
when you enter your office? And I said, no, it
begins when my feet hit the floor, getting out
of bed in the morning, because everything I do.
I'm doing based on who I am and my principles,
and it comes through with every single interaction.
I'll give you an example. I once worked for a
CEO who would park his car on the side of the
building and enter through a side door and take
the freight elevator to his office so he didn't
have to interact with employees. Meanwhile, I'm
parking where everybody's parking and interacting
with people, whether they work for me or not,
on the way into the building and having conversations.
Because guess what? I could change somebody's
day. Somebody could be getting out of their car
and realizing I left my kid home sick. And guess
what? I have a responsibility as a leader, even
if they don't work for my team. yes help them
yeah and yeah this is um really really rich i'm
really feeling enthusiastic about what you're
um talking about uh yeah because at the end of
the day leadership what leaders do are two things
in my in my opinion number one they influence
the thinking of the people they're leading they
influence thinking and number two they enroll
people into a vision of what is possible. That's
what leaders do. So yes, if you're sneaking up
to your office through the freight elevator,
you're going to have a hard time influencing
the thinking and enrolling people into a vision
of what's possible if you're hiding from them.
Yeah. And then to your point, when do you start
leading? Well, ask yourself, who is looking up
to me? Who? What responsibility do I have? As
a father, I'm a leader. I'm leading. So I'm responsible
for influencing the thinking of my children.
I'm responsible for enrolling them into a vision
of what is possible for their lives. As a friend,
same thing. As a husband, same thing. As a business
partner, same thing. Like you are a leader somewhere
in your life. If you're listening to this conversation
and it hasn't dawned on you that you're a leader.
Let's let's have this conversation. You are a
leader somewhere in your life. Would you agree
with that? I would absolutely agree with that.
Yeah, absolutely agree with that. I'll tell you,
I did a little experiment once. I had noticed
that we had this woman who would come onto our
floor. And take out the trash twice a day and
clean the kitchen up and put the dishes in a
dishwasher. And I noticed I was the only one
that would ever say hello to her. And her name
was Kathy. Short little lady, pretty smile. Every
day always had a smile on her face. And I noticed
that the people on the floor, there's 60 some
people, maybe maybe 100 people on the floor and
nobody was talking to Kathy. So I sent out an
email to the floor. And I said, the first person
who can tell me the name of the woman who takes
out our trash twice a day and cleans up after
us in the kitchen will get a $50 Starbucks card.
When I hit send and I walked outside my office
and just stood and I watched everybody peeking
up over the cubicle walls, looking to see if
they could see where Kathy was. None of them
knew her name. When she entered the floor, 20
people went to her and scared the bejeebies out
of her. She ran downstairs to get her supervisor,
who I never even thought that these people would
do that. I mean, they just scared the living
daylights out of her. But you know what it taught?
What it taught those people was she was part
of our team. Yeah. And you know what happened?
You know what changed? People didn't leave the
kitchen messy anymore. Oh, that's interesting.
They cleaned their own dishes and put them in
the dishwasher because now they had a better
appreciation for the person who was stuck doing
the dirty work. Yeah. Yeah. And to me, I called
it a win that week and it was a big win. But
it opened people's eyes that why are we neglecting
this person that does so much for us? Yeah. Yeah.
That's that's a great story. When we get when
we get present. to some something new right um
we then have possibility to to create a different
outcome um that's so cool and i love that what
you just said they began to see her as part of
the team correct and yeah because take take kathy
out of the equation take the janitors out of
the equation take the maintenance department
out of the equation you're suddenly in a world
of a world of hurt Correct. Everybody is team.
Correct. Absolutely correct. Everybody from the
security guard at the front door to the janitor
who's there late at night to every single person
that you're involved with that has a role and
a responsibility. It may be a small role in the
grand scheme of things, but without them, again,
that's a spoke of the wheel that if you take
out, you're going to impact the integrity of
that structure. Yes, yes, yes. So good. So good.
Jim, we're coming to the close of our conversation.
It's been such a pleasure talking with you. You
mentioned that you have some books that you would
like to give away, which is awesome. Tell me
tell me about that. So I am always interested
in feedback. Feedback is how we learn. So I'm
going to offer to the first three people. that
post a comment to this episode on social media.
And Fletcher, I want you to think for a second
because I want them to post it to your social
media for the podcast. So wherever you push that
out, I know you have it on a, if you put it to
YouTube or LinkedIn or wherever. Yeah. So the
first three people who make a comment, what did
you get from today's discussion? Positive or
negative, just so we can get feedback. Do not
post. your address on social media. Either Fletcher
or I will reach out to you to get your address
and I will send you a signed copy of my book,
The Six Pillars for Effective Leadership, A Roadmap
to Success. All right. All right. Where would
you like those comments to go, Fletcher? Yeah.
So I mean, so if they see it on LinkedIn or they
see it on YouTube or if they see it on Facebook,
just. I mean, make that comment right there below
and we'll be monitoring them. You're going to
push this out onto your socials. So if you see
them on yours, yeah, it's those first three that
are seen. So make that comment and pick up a
free copy of Jim's book and dive into it and
become even a better leader. Right on. Jim, thank
you so much for your time today. Appreciate what
you're doing in the world and keep up the great
work. and it's time for you now to get out there
be a source of kindness be a source of contribution
you do have something to offer this world you
are a leader in some capacity And I believe in
you. Thank you for being here today. I'm really
happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions
as these episodes continue to move forward. This
is going to get more and more fun. We'll have
more and more engagement as well. We'll invite
people to participate in the show. And thank
you for giving us your time and attention. Have
an excellent time building out your vision and
becoming a vision pro yourself.