Hello and good morning. I'm Javanka Magee, co
-host of Vision Pros Live. Please share with
me your first, last name, where you're located,
the name of your business and or books or anything
that you do. Sure. So my name is Clay Moffitt.
I'm currently residing in Phuket, Thailand. I'm
from Perth in Western Australia. And the company
that I work is my company at the moment. That's
Maverick Consultancy. And we, as we say, it's
me and two other people. Okay, let's say we.
We work together to provide solutions for primarily
entrepreneurs and executives. And we do so in
helping them read the room, helping them read
themselves and helping them better themselves
so that they can negotiate better deals, more
money and more time for themselves. That's the
general synopsis. I like that. OK, so it's a
consultant team of three individuals. And one
thing that you said that I would love for you
to elaborate on is reading the room. I know we're
sort of getting right into it, but reading the
room and what that really means. So. Through
paying attention to nonverbal indicators and
nonverbal signs, you can start to get an idea
of what's going on in someone's head. Now, so
we're clear when you first start doing it, even
when you become very good at doing it. you're
making it up you're making up stories about other
people however you're making up stories about
other people based on what they say and also
what isn't said verbally as well as what they
say non -verbally and what isn't said non -verbally
because the the two languages run in parallel
right and so what you're looking at is okay is
what they're doing non -verbally being congruent
with what they're doing verbally and you can
start to dissect people's behavior and you can
start to pay attention to what's really going
on And you can start to build a picture of what
it is that they want. So their intentions are
setting in this direction, their behavior is
leading in this direction. What's really going
on and how do you adapt to that in the real time?
It's it seems like if I weren't an entrepreneur,
I'd be like, oh, that sounds like a challenge,
right? Because you're you're either giving a
speech or teaching something, but you're also
reading the room. And then there's another thing
that you mentioned that you're also reading yourself.
So there's an internal. read that needs to happen
for you to probably even be able to read the
room. So what does that look like? So that's
spot on. Obviously, you've been very good at
doing this. That actually has to come first,
because if you cannot get in touch with yourself
or understand what's going on within yourself,
then it makes it very difficult because you'll
start to project onto other people. And as soon
as you start projecting, and everyone projects,
but your projections become very much more about
your insecurities versus what's actually going
on in other people. As they say in most pop psychology,
perception is projection. And a lot of people
default to that. It's not necessarily true all
the time. And people jump off a cliff and they
want to die on that hill. Like, oh, perception
is projection. It's not always the case. there
are some people that are extremely composed extremely
well put together and done a lot of work on themselves
and that have the training to be able to start
to dissect what people are saying what isn't
being said how their body language is incongruent
with the words that they're saying and start
to build narratives around what people are truly
wanting and truly desiring versus what they're
saying and to go further into that everyone wears
a mask it's not like even i wear a mask and i've
spent The better part of a decade, trying to
peel back that mask as much as possible so that
the person you see now when I'm on camera is
the same person that is off camera when I'm not
sitting on camera talking to you or when I'm
not working with a client or when I'm not out
in the public sphere. It's the same way I show
up. I work with the same ethics. I work with
the same dutifulness and same conscientiousness.
I show up in the same way. I'm as direct. in
person with my clients as i am with my friends
as i am with my family and sometimes it comes
at a cost and i recognize that and it's definitely
reduced over the years but it's about knowing
yourself and starting to understand yourself
and and a lot of the time what i've noticed through
a lot of people and through a lot of conditioning
and working with literally thousands of people
and having spoken in front of so many people
is that we struggle as human beings typically
to connect with what a for lack of a better word
a yes indicator is for us so what we're all in
like a yes so i i call that my truth and um some
people will call it intention some people call
it intuition some people will call it connecting
to source or muse or whatever help right you
know like it's fine you can call it whatever
you want yeah but for me it's the truth because
when you have every part of you wanting to move
in a direction and you can tune into that and
what's more you have trained that part of you
to know what it means then you start to pick
up on information that would have not been readily
available to your conscious mind because you're
getting the whole snapshot and so you can make
the best possible decision at any given moment
based on knowing that at that point you've taken
in all the information available to you at that
point in time. And therefore, you will always
be making the best decision, which means you
can never have regrets. So it's a pretty amazing
place to start to operate from. Yeah. And you
said the two words that I think stuck with me
is truth and intentions, to be intentional about
everything that you do. And as a consultant team
of three and you all training or consulting others,
What does that path look like for someone that
isn't yet there? How do you begin to consult
and assist them with learning those tools in
order to be better in their business or be better
in their speaking engagements? Or just like you
said, on the camera and off the camera, marrying
those two. So that depends and allow me to just
elaborate on something. Absolutely. The company
is a team of three. The only consultant is me.
So it's, yeah, yeah. So it's not like, so I've
got people that run in the background of home
and does this, then I'm doing the consulting.
So, uh, yeah, I, I had other people and we were
building out coaches and consultants and. It
just got complicated. I'm like, you know what?
I prefer just building up my systems doing my
thing and I enjoy working for myself and having
to manage other people is not something I really
enjoy that much. And so when I was doing that,
I had to do less consulting and more managing.
And so I stepped away from it. I much preferred
to do consulting. So what it looks like will
really depend on the person that I'm going to
work with and the situation because everything
in my personal view and I think it's pretty...
well accepted universally in the psychological
sphere is that everything is context dependent,
like everything. And context can change very,
very quickly. For example, if you and I went
out to, what is that place that they've got in
San Antonio with the water that goes around?
Riverwalk. Riverwalk, right. But there's this
one restaurant, Dave's, where everyone just abuses
you, this restaurant, you go there and just rip
you. Yes. Is it Dave's? Yes, I think it is. I've
never been there for that reason. But you know
the place I'm talking about, right? Yes, I do.
Yeah, okay. So I was walking past there with
a friend, and the way that they were treating
people, I was like, people pay for this experience?
Like, are you crazy? My friend's like, yes. So
it's context, right? So you go out to a restaurant
and someone treats you like that at a restaurant
that's not Dave's and you're going to be very
upset. You go there, you kind of like laugh at
it because that's what they're supposed to do.
Yes. So context is dependent. Context really
frames how the situation is going to go. And
context is also going to be dependent by expectations
of the people entering into that agreement. So
typically speaking, when I'm working with someone,
for the most cases, people come to see me and
come to hire me when things are going wrong.
I have very few clients, maybe like one or two
percent, that come to see me when things are
going well. Like, hey, how do I tune it up? How
do I get more? How do I get better? It's very
rare that happens. They usually come to me in
crisis. And so we'll start where they're at.
We'll start with what's the dumpster fires that's
going on in their life right now? Is their dumpster
fires mostly personal? Is it mostly professional?
because usually speaking, it will be one or the
other. However, regardless of which one is actually
causing the dumpster fire, they're going to have
problems in both because what happens in one
life starts to manifest and correct itself in
the other. It starts to build. It's just a way
that it works. You could have your work life
going fantastically and your home life starting
to fall apart, so therefore your work doesn't
become as good anymore or vice versa. Home life
could be great, but then you're having really
bad times at work. so we figure out which one
is actually the core of the issue because that's
obviously going to depend on how we start navigating
things if it's a professional problem it's going
to be very different than being a personal problem
when they're having a problem with their spouse
or a problem with their kids in the kids opera
so it's really going to depend on where the starting
point is and then we're going to start analyzing
what is happening specifically with them and
how they're showing up so how I'm going to use
a word that might not necessarily be accurate,
but we use it for the sake of argument. How much
integrity do they have between their actions
and their words? And so the reason I'm using
that is very specifically when someone says,
I'm going to do this and they do that thing and
they repeatedly do that thing. And that is a
way that they start showing up. What starts to
happen is you start to see a pattern of recognition
going on. When someone is saying one thing and
then doing something else, it starts to create
a massive deviance. And that deviance starts
to create distrust within yourself. Because if
you can't keep your own word to yourself, then
it's less likely you're going to keep word to
other people. And people argue that, oh, no,
I'm much more likely to keep my word to other
people than to myself because I don't want to
look bad. Well, that only gets you part of the
way there. Because when it comes to things that
really matter, you still won't be able to push
across the line because there's no discipline.
And discipline is going to be a key driving factor
because a lot of people these days are very much
ruled by their emotions instead of being able
to regulate their emotions. And I believe this
is a clean podcast from what I've been listening
to, so I won't taint your record. There is a
saying, I believe Alex Hermosi uses it now. It's
something that I've said for many, many years.
And it's something that my client, one of my
first clients actually told me was one of my
strengths. And he said, you know what? Do you
know why we work together so well and why we've
got such good results? I have no idea what your
take on it is, but please tell me. He said, because
you don't really give about my feelings. And
I'm like, that's not entirely true. I said, I
don't care about them when they get in the way
of you getting what you want. And when you choose
to let them get in the way of what you want,
then I really couldn't care because you're not
paying me to care about your feelings. You're
paying me to say, don't worry about those. Let's
get you to the end result. Because once you get
to the end result, you'll see that those things
were just temporary things, but you were exacerbating,
you were exaggerating, you were extending them
to mean so much more than they actually needed
to. Wow. Wow. And I love I love how you bleeped
out your own word. I think that's super funny.
But it's funny because as I'm sitting here listening
to you, I believe. Well, not even I believe I
know that I'm an emotional person and it's not
necessarily showing the emotion. It's what's
internal. Right. And that emotion, whatever I'm
feeling, it's going to come out in a way that.
is based off of what I'm feeling, but not whatever
the encounter of myself and another individual
is doing. And so I think that that's one of the
things, and I'm just going to say it on camera,
is that I think that's probably one of the hardest
things to do is to keep your emotions intact,
to make sure that integrity is still there. That
trust is still there because whatever you're
feeling, it's often going to come out eventually.
Right. If the conversation goes too long. I just
think that that's probably one of the most challenging
things for me as an entrepreneur is not going
off of emotion. And. and i think that's a part
of our lives but when that individual said that
to you it sounded funny because like you don't
care how i feel but you really do you're just
mostly focused on is it the job at hand for you
so it goes a bit more than that okay Everyone's
an emotional person to a degree. Yes. With the
exception of maybe psychopaths and sociopaths,
right? But apart from that, pretty much everyone's
an emotional person. And every single decision
that you make, everyone that I make, everyone
that every single human being on the planet makes
is an emotional decision. Yeah. All of them.
And then we back it up with rational logic to
say why we actually made that emotional decision,
right? And so we'll come from, stem from beliefs,
we'll stem from our childhood traumas, we'll
stem from all these things. We'll stem from what
we got rewarded for and how we got rewarded as
people growing up. And those are the mechanisms
that start to drive us in adulthood. And we can
go back and change certain things and shift some
things. But underneath it all, the drivers are
still going to be there and start to motivate
us and inspire us and take us into action. And
those levels of motivation, those levels of inspiration
are great to start. But if the building blocks
aren't there and the discipline isn't there to
just do it anyway, then when things get tough,
people will likely give up. Or when they're not
in the mood for it, they'll likely give up. Or
when things are slightly more difficult or it's
unknown, then they'll likely give up. And having
seen this time and time again, so when I was
in the Navy, I used to just watch people, we
have to drill. You don't get a choice. When you're
in the middle of the ocean and you're fighting
pretend fires, and I'm being legitimate here,
like there is no fire at all. There's not even
smoke, but you're fighting for 10 fires. But
you drill because the most dangerous thing when
you're on a boat at sea is a fire. This is literally
the most dangerous thing because once the fire
destroys the boat, you've got nothing left. You've
got nowhere to go. The boat's gone. See you later.
And especially when you're in a warship, if a
fire goes off, not only do you have fuel, but
you've got missiles and you've got ammunition
and you've got a whole bunch of things that just
basically turns the boat into a powder keg waiting
to blow up. practicing firefighting is a necessity
and while i've got some interesting stories which
we don't need to go into but we can at a later
date if you really want to about my time in the
navy and how neglectful i was i think it's probably
the most politically correct way i could say
it um what became apparent is that it doesn't
matter whether you want to fight a fire today
it doesn't matter whether you want to practice
the drill today what matters is have you got
it wedged into your brain so it's second nature
so you don't need to think about it to the point
where i haven't been in the navy for almost 20
years and i could within a day go and lead a
fire team to go put out fires because of how
much we drilled we used to drill every single
day every single day and that's just how it comes
in and so a lot of people say that you are the
sum of your decisions or that you are the sum
of your habits. I disagree with that. You're
not those things at all. They're just the things
that you do. And they don't define you as a person.
And I wouldn't even suggest that your decisions
define you as a person. But your decisions and
your habits will definitely shape the path of
your life, whether you like it or not. And if
you want a different path in life, then you need
to just not even get out of your own way. But
let your feelings sit on the bench and get back
in the game. Yeah, yeah. It's so funny when you
said that. I literally thought about basketball,
football. You already know what you're going
into. You know exactly what's about to happen.
Get off the bench and do the job. And I can probably
put that on my little thing here. Get off the
bench and just do the job because that's what
you know. First, I want to also say thank you
for your service. I totally appreciate that.
But now I somewhat have an understanding of where
your mindset comes from. Oh, no. No, my mindset
comes mostly from my dad, of all places. Really?
Yeah, my dad's ex -Special Forces. So he went
through a lot of stuff, and he's seen a lot of
things that you just don't wish a person to see.
And have you ever heard of a gentleman, I'm assuming
you have, by the name of Jocko Willink? I have
not. Okay. So he's an ex -Navy SEAL commander
and he was one of the most, he led the unit during
Iraq and Afghanistan. That was like the most
decorated unit there. And he's got a video. If
you type into YouTube Jocko Willink good, you
will just be, and the guy is just so intense.
He's like a real life Terminator. It's insane.
And in the best way possible, right? He's not
going around killing people, so we're clear.
But it's just fantastic. But he's got this video
where he says, good. And basically, people used
to come to him with a problem. And his SEALs
used to come to him with a problem. And his response
was, good. And they'd be like, what? How is this
good? And so he always referring, it's good.
Now you've got a challenge. Now you've got this.
Good. Now you've got this. And that was the mentality
that I had growing up. I would get in a fight
at school. My dad wouldn't say, good. He'd say,
you're lucky. i would break my arm he'd say you're
lucky i would flunk a test he'd say you're lucky
i get uh ditched by a girlfriend he'd say you're
lucky i crash a car you're lucky it didn't matter
what happened the response was always you're
lucky and it it is so annoying that you just
want to punch him in the face he's like what's
this however now being almost 42 it's very obvious
that what he was doing whether it was intentional
or not i believe it was was to show me and to
pay attention to the silver lining to every single
situation and the key distinction i found about
that was really really powerful was that when
i'm looking at the silver lining or defaulting
to look for the silver lining I'm always looking
for a way, whether I knew it or not, of how I
have some element of control in this. And whenever
people are feeling anxious, and I wouldn't say
I've really felt anxious that much, I'm sure
there's some point in my life that I have, but
to the top of mind, it's not there. done a few
interviews now i've completed a few interviews
and i've i've always struggled to like get into
like a deep feeling of anxiety or connect with
one and i think that's because of that because
no matter how much of a dark place i found myself
in whether that's a metaphorical dark place or
a literal dark place like going down a wrong
alley at a southeast asian city when i was drunk
doing stupid things i always would look for this
way that i'm lucky so now that the elevator is
broken okay we've got to walk up seven flights
of stair awesome i'm lucky i've got two working
legs like how good is this there are people that
would kill to be able to walk up seven flights
of stairs again in their life that don't have
that um the plane's delayed now okay awesome
well that means i've got more time to call my
wife and kids before i fly out or i've got more
time to do some work for it like there's always
something and so my brain's default pattern to
look for that is to always look for how I can
utilize the moment and pay attention to the moment.
And so if I'm always looking at how I can utilize
the moment and pay attention to the moment, then
I'm always looking for how I have some element
of control, how I can control what is happening,
even though I can't control what's happening.
Does that make sense? I've always controlled
how I respond. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I
see it as being optimistic with facts. Because
you're lucky means you have to pull the best
part of it out. And I and it really actually
get goosebumps hearing that because there's not
a lot of people that think that way. You know,
when bad things happen, there's usually a response
that tries to fix why that bad thing happened.
Rather than your father or Jocko saying good
or you're lucky. I really, I really, truly like
that. I want to I'm going to say this and I know
where we don't have that much time to talk about
it, but your book, the truth. I all of this now
me just reading the synopsis of it and and just
a piece of it. I'm like, this is where all of
this ties into, which now. I'm intrigued and
truly want to read the book. But with all of
this, all of what you said, and it's super crazy
because time has flown by. I told you 15, 20
minutes, we're on 22 and some change. But I think
that I was so dadgum intrigued with how the conversation
was going. I'm like, dang, I'm going to ask you
as awkwardly as it is, and as less time, as much
time as we do have to answer this, just tell
me about your vision in this all. So, the vision
came out of necessity. And the necessity was
the truss trap got ridden in three weeks before
I had an operation to save the vision in my right
eye. I'm already blind in my left eye. I lost
that in 2010 due to two failed surgeries. My
vision got taken away. They try to get it back.
It failed. They try to get it back. They got
my vision back to near perfect. And then I developed
a cataract. And then the cataract surgery then
took my vision away permanently. And I haven't
had it since. And then November last year, cataract
started developing on my other eye. And I was
completely uncorrectable with my vision in January.
couldn't see three feet in front of me in focus
so I couldn't I couldn't even tell was my wife
standing six feet away from me to the point where
I'm going to use this word but it's not really
correct I groped the wrong woman on the bum thinking
it was my wife at the shopping center and this
lady just stood at me as my wife walked around
the corner and I knew it was her because she
just started laughing and cracking up and I could
tell her laugh I'm like oh damn yeah this is
like And I did it with my son and my daughter,
like, right there. So it wasn't like I was trying
to, you know what I mean? It's just such a stupid
move. Anyway, so the book was written in three
weeks because I figured out what the issue was.
I'd spent months going to ophthalmologists. I
went to seven different ophthalmologists this
time just to, like, make sure I got the right
feeling from the ophthalmologists and I was happy
with how they were going to treat me as a human
being, not as just a number and a paycheck. And
I found the ophthalmologist, and he said, look,
it's 100 % cataracts. We need to do this operation.
This is going on. And the initial response was
like a feeling of relief because I found the
surgeon. I knew what was wrong with my eye because
I didn't know for months. I shut down my coaching
and my consulting company. I was deleting all
my social. I'm like, okay, I've got to really
prepare for the fact that I might not be able
to see again. So I might as well just get off
everything and spend time with my family. And
then when they told me that. It was cataracts.
I was like, okay, there is a chance that it's
completely reversible. However, the last time
I had cataract surgery, it went completely the
wrong way. And so I was very aware that it was
potentially going to go that way. And I was like,
well, okay, I've spent the better part of 15
years in self -development, 11 professionally
and working with people. If I could only write
one book, what would that book be? Because I've
only got time to maybe write a book. I don't
even know if I'm going to get it done. And the
Trust Trap was the book that I wrote because
I thought it was the most important message that
I could get out. It's the underpinning of every
single relationship you've had, have, and will
ever have because you either trust people or
you don't trust. Like trust is on the spectrum
and you are in different places. And the way
this ideological view that we have of trust that
is a characteristic and a personality trait is
just flawed and wrong. And trust is not about
a human being. It's about a mutually beneficial
outcome. The very quick example I'll give you
is this. So right now, Javanka, it's very clear
that it's beneficial for me to be on your show
because you believe I can provide value to your
audience. So you can trust I'm going to come
here and give as much value and as much content
and as much oomph to the people that are going
to be there and hopefully help them. And I can
trust that you want to be a great host and provide
me and set me up to be a good guest so that we
can both get this. We have a mutually beneficial
outcome. And the second that that is not mutually
beneficial, like if I pitched you to come on
your show and you thought that I wasn't a fit,
I could very much trust that you're going to
say no. Thank you. And likewise, if you reached
out to me, I was like, I don't think we're a
fit. I appreciate you reaching out. I would say
no. So you can always trust what's going on.
And what happens is we create this mechanism
inside the brain. It goes through a default mechanism
because the brain is inherently lazy. The brain
wants to survive. And we learned to survive many,
many thousands of years ago before there were
7 -Elevens and Walmarts and everything else.
Right. So we could just go down there and get
food whenever we wanted. So the brain learned
very early on that before we're even born, it's
embedded in us that, OK, we need to conserve
energy. and only use energy when it's in our
best interest. So if we don't think we're going
to be able to get something or we're not fully
committed to be able to get something, we're
not going to put the energy in. This is why I
think necessity is such a powerful mechanism.
So as soon as someone exerts enough signals to
you or me or anyone on the planet that meets
our minimum description for trustworthy, we slap
that label on and we forget. And so even when
their behavior starts deviating from what we
would call a trustworthy person, we ignore it
and we override it because they put the label
of trustworthy. We slept it on there. So it's
like a file in a filing cabinet, for example.
And we go to pull up, oh, trustworthy, and I
put it back in. It's fine. Oh, they're just saying,
oh, no, it's trustworthy. Put it back in. And
it's not until we get this massive breach of
trust that completely shatters everything. Oh,
but they betrayed us. Nope. You betrayed the
signals that your brain was reporting on because
you've imported this label because of how you've
grown up because you need to conserve energy.
Yes. Yes. Wow. Wow. That's deep. That's super
deep. Because if I would have known it was going
to be that deep, I'm like, we could have spent
another whole 30 minutes, an hour on that. I
mean, and I say that it's deep because it goes
into a level of not only just about relationships,
but also in business. Because you can definitely
do the same thing in a business relationship.
So we're talking about in its entirety. I get
this great feeling of excitement when I ask you
to tell me about your vision and you literally
told me about your vision. And I'm like, whoa,
because now what that means to me is that I did
it at the right time and at the right moment.
Because you shared with me that was something
super personal. But realizing you're lucky. Right.
Everything is just coming into play and just
what you're saying and how you're saying it.
And I truly, truly hope that if someone is just
on a treadmill and they get anything out of this,
I would say. Trust. And then knowing what your
vision is and then knowing that you're lucky
just to even be able to listen to what Clay Moffitt
has to say at this point. And I cannot be most
excited and appreciative to have had you on here.
And I'm going to say it again. He has a book
out. So his name is Clay Moffitt and it's on
Amazon and it has great reviews. But we're going
to bring him back on to talk about that. Another
time, but I will ask you to do this for me. Please
share with myself as well as anyone else that's
listening how they can get in touch with you
through your coaching and your consulting business
and or via your social media with your social
media handles. Sure. So the best thing that I
can offer for you and your listeners is to go
to claimoffit .com slash vision pros. And there's
going to be a link to a whole bunch of content
that they can download and they can start going
through and they can get access that way. If
they want to get in touch with me, then the best
way to go is to email me. Go at Clay Moffitt
dot com. Sweet, sweet. So Clay Moffitt dot com
slash vision pros and email go at Clay Moffitt
dot com. Everything just says your name, right?
Got it. Much easier that way. Yes. And for those
that are not watching, because I know that you
could possibly be running or something, it's
Clay, M -O -F -F -A -T, Clay Moffat. So thank
you so much for choosing to be with me this morning.
Thank you for going over your time limit. I'm
sure you have so much more to do, but I am grateful
that you've chosen to spend these moments and
minutes with me. Have an amazing day. Thank you
very much for having me. I appreciate it. You're
welcome. Thank you for being here today. I'm
really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros
Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions
as these episodes continue to move forward. This
is going to get more and more fun. We'll have
more and more engagement as well. We'll invite
people to participate in the show and thank you
for giving us your time and attention. Have an
excellent time building out your vision and becoming
a vision pro yourself.