Hey everybody, welcome to Vision Pros. So glad
you're here. So glad you're in this conversation.
And I am delighted to have on the show today
a gentleman named Matt Kutz. He is an author.
He is a doctor. He is an outdoor enthusiast,
just to name a few of the things. But today we're
talking about becoming epic. Matt Kutz, welcome
to the show. Thanks, Fletcher. Glad to be here.
Yeah, right on. Hey, I like to start off the
shows with a win because, you know, we got a
lot of stuff going on in the world that doesn't
feel good. And a lot of people are practiced
at focusing on what's not working well. But I
want to hear from you professionally or personally.
What's a win for you? Yeah. So a big win I had
recently is actually grandkids. I mean, that's
a big win. That's fun. My son recently had a
daughter. My other son is going to have a son
here in a couple of weeks. So a big win for me
and my wife as we're moving into the grandparent
season of life, and that's a huge win for us.
We absolutely love it. So far, everything they
say about being a grandparent is absolutely true.
My little granddaughter gets everything she wants,
and I don't care what her dad says. I love that,
and I can totally appreciate it. We have our
first grandbaby. She's 10 months old. So I'm
new to the grandparenting scene as well. And
I got to concur. I am loving it. So much fun.
Yeah. Big, big win for us. Yeah. Right on. Right
on. That's great. Hey, so the next question I'm
going to ask you is about your vision. But I'm
a big fan of defining words. And sometimes I'll
take it right out of the dictionary, but sometimes
I pull them out of my head. So I want to talk
about vision and what a vision is because this
is called vision pros, right? And so I define
vision as a clarified and detailed story, which
exists as possibility and is intended to be brought
forth from nothingness into the physical realm.
Yeah. Okay. Now, having said that. What I'm curious
to know from you, Matt, is what is that clarified,
detailed vision that has existed as a possibility
up here that you want and intend to bring forth
into the physical realm? Yeah, that's a great
question. So to be concise, my vision is to help
people actualize and realize their hidden potential
or unrealized potential. And that, you know,
I love the idea of taking it from the hidden
to the scene, because I am convinced that people
have capacities within them that many times are
dormant or unknown. And so what I take great
joy in doing, another win that just makes my
life worth living, is helping people find what
that is and then giving them any tools or resources
that I can actualize. their dream in their life
and helping them what I call move from fantasy
to foresight in their life. Yeah. I love that.
Moving from fantasy to foresight. That's cool.
Yeah. You know, and that in order to do that,
that's going to require some level of wisdom,
right? A lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's and
that's a whole another topic. But I love that.
I love that you brought that into that. Yeah.
Moving from fantasy to foresight. To me, that
smacks of like a lot of intentional planning
and forecasting. Yeah, it really does. I couch
that in a term that I like to use. I've written
about it as well called contextual intelligence.
And so often there are. Three particular areas
to what I call 3D thinking, a big part of 3D
thinking. The 3Ds are the three dimensions of
time, hindsight, insight, and foresight. And
when we talk about foresight and actualizing
foresight, what I have found in my own career
for my own self, and then talking to the people
I work with and even some of the clients I work
with, there have a lot of confusion between fantasy
and foresight. it seems is really good at fantasizing
i i have this dream of this future and being
out of debt finishing my novel you know being
retired living the high life whatever it is they
have this this fantasy that's out there and then
when i ask okay well How are you going to get
there? What strategies do you have to make that
a reality? And they're just like, well, I'm just
hoping it happens really. And they're not real.
And that's what I mean by moving from fantasy
to foresight. We have to include intentional
aspects of living. Now, part of that intentionality
requires the proper integration of hindsight,
because I am convinced and the evidence in the
scholarly research is very clear that human beings
are horrible at. understanding hindsight. And
we actually suffer from a condition known as
hindsight bias. which is basically misremembering
the past, right? We don't actually remember what
actually happened. So we can't really know where
we're going until we know where we've come from.
So one of the big steps in moving from fantasy
to foresight is going back and looking at what
are the memories and experiences that you've
had and how have they actually impacted your
life, not what you think happened, but what actually
happened. And that's the intentionality part
you're talking about. Yes. And teaching them
the cues to pay attention to what's going on
in real time. That's the insight. What's actually
happening right now. Stop living in the past.
Stop living in the future. Recognize this and
let's make that future happen now. So you bring
that future, that vision into the present, which
I believe we can do. I love. So much of what
you just said. And I love that. Give me that.
I'm taking some notes. So if you see me right
looking down, I'm taking some notes. Give me
the 3D again. Yeah, 3D is hindsight, insight
and foresight. Hindsight, insight and foresight.
Yeah. And I love what you're saying about getting
curious about the hindsight, because that really
does inform a lot of the actions that we take
right in our immediate life. And if we. misunderstand
the story about what actually happened like you
said right so we want to get curious about what
actually happened not the story about what happened
but what what actually happened like you really
get curious because as as you likely know our
memories are only as accurate as the last time
we remembered it that's right and they change
every time you recall it exactly exactly so we
really got to get curious about what are the
facts And what was the story I created and wrapped
those facts in? Right. See, what humans are really
good at is remembering the emotions of a memory,
but we're horrible at remembering the details
and facts of a memory. So most of the time when
people are recalling something, they're actually
remembering how they felt, not what actually
happened. And then, like you just said, they
construct a story and a narrative that's been
biased through all the things that have happened
to them since that. original memory, and they
end up pulling out something that's completely
different, even though the feeling or the emotion
that they had might have been the same. How they
remember it is usually completely different.
Exactly. And what you just touched on there reminds
me of that quote by Maya Angelou, you know, people
will frequently forget what you said, but what
they remember is how they felt. Right. Right.
Like if we have if we have a good time on this
podcast, you know, in a year or two or three,
you may not even remember what we talked about.
You're like, oh, yeah, but I had a good time
with Fletcher or or I had a terrible time with
that host. Right. Whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah.
We remember how we feel. Love that. So cool.
And by the way, this is such great information
for the public to some of our listeners. Maybe
this sounds maybe they're very familiar with
these concepts, but I love. this specific content
because I believe it is at the root of much of
our suffering and or much of our inspiration.
100%. Right? Yeah. So thanks for being up for
this conversation. All right. Let me read just
a brief word from your website so we can set
the stage here for what I really want to talk
to you about. On Matt's website, he writes, becoming
epic is not the job of giants. It is in the details
and decisions each of us must face every day.
In a complex world where challenges seem to multiply
every day, how do you rise above and thrive rather
than stay mired in mediocrity? I love this so
much. For much of my life, I was mired in mediocrity.
And I absolutely thought that I was mediocre
and I loathed myself for that. Now, before I
ask you questions, I want to say that it's so
easy to find ourselves as mediocre or less than
when we're playing the comparison game online.
Right. And what I as I read about becoming epic
and some of the stuff you had on your website,
it wasn't becoming epic as a as a competition
to the next person. Right. It was like, how do
you rise above your own self -perceived mediocrity
and become that epic version of yourself? Am
I getting that correct? Yeah, 100 percent, because
one of the major. diseases that humans have is
what you just alluded to. And that's comparing
ourselves to every other person around us. And
we actually many times don't even know how to
determine what success is or failure is unless
we see someone else either failing what we perceive
as failing or succeeding. And we have to stop
that. We're not internally aware enough of our
own capacity, our own vulnerability, our own
abilities, our own purpose and destiny. need
to even know that I'm living a great life right
now regardless of what someone else is or isn't
doing and you know I recently read this just
actually on my plane ride yesterday I read you
know with when given the choice this was an actual
study done I believe was at Stanford when given
the choice between making fifty thousand dollars
a year and everybody around you and your community
is making twenty five thousand dollars a year
that's choice one or you can make a hundred thousand
dollars a year and everybody in your community
around you is making 250 000 a year which choice
would you make 76%, a majority of people pick,
I'd rather have 50 ,000 because they're measuring
their success not on actually what they can achieve,
but by what everybody around them is doing. So
I want to feel like I'm doing way better than
everybody else, and then I'll be happy. Whether
or not I can actually double what I'm making
isn't even the point. I just don't want to be
the person who's not as good as everybody else.
And when we live that way, we are conceding to
a mediocre life. And that's, to me, a crime.
That is such a fascinating study. And I feel
a bit sad about it. Yeah. Right? Because it paints
very clearly the act of constantly comparing
ourselves to others. coming up short so that
that yeah that comparison game is a lose -lose
situation we lose and then we and those and those
who we think are doing better that we resent
or we have jealous so we put something between
in that relationship that doesn't feel good right
yeah and we also lose our capacity to add value
to other people And that to me is a big part
of becoming epic, a big part of what I referred
to a little while ago of being contextually intelligent
is one of the things that someone who lives an
epic life does is they add value to the people
around them. And that value can come in different
things, different ways. It doesn't just mean
making someone, giving someone skills, tricks
and trades, you know, how to make more money
or generate more revenue or get more clients.
It's actually adding value to the quality and
meaning and purpose of their life. I believe
that's where joy really comes from. And when
we're talking about becoming epic, I mean, another
easy. way to look at this is living a life with
joy or full of joy and i thought oh man oh man
yeah yeah you nailed it uh a life without joy
yikes uh don't want that um yeah joy is one of
the number one ways of being that i that i go
after in life because it feels so good um love
that so next question On your website, it says
becoming epic, how excellence, perception, inspiration,
compassion can be a remedy for mediocrity. So
excellence, perception, inspiration, compassion,
right? They all make up the word epic, right?
That's right. Tell me, before you dive into this,
I just want to know, give me a little bit about
what's your why? I want to hear, like, why is
all of this important to you? Yeah, well, it's
important. I mean, you know, it's funny because
two years ago, I would have answered the question
completely differently. But a big part of this
idea of becoming epic actually happened because
of a recent tragedy in my own life. And, you
know, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. And
then we found out that it metastasized and it
sprained some of my bones, lymph nodes, things
like that. And that was two years ago. This journey
that I've been on of becoming epic and understanding
this is really about, it came as a result of
that. One of the things that I also believe epic
people do, and I've said this before in other
venues and contexts, is we have to view chaos
as a package that your potential arrives in.
And we have to understand that. The things that
happen to you, the disruption, the uncertainty,
the pain, the grief, the chaos, all of those
things, I believe my whole life have not been
meant or aren't meant to destroy you. They're
meant to refine you and to bring out things in
your life that were hidden, that you didn't know
were there or were dormant. My why has become
helping people understand. You know, what is
their hidden potential? What is what is their
future self and where is it hiding within them?
And that really motivates me. And that's even
where the whole concept and idea of becoming
epic came from. And those four, what I call maxims
or the epic maxims came from. And somebody who
discovers that, I think, strives to at least
practice those four things. Yeah. Yeah. So you
had. You had a kind of a wake up call in your
own life, right? Yeah. Right. And and I'm curious,
I want to just go a little deeper on this. Why?
Why did it become important to you to like. Begin
to help other people step into this, like, why
is that important to you? I understand you had
the cancer and everything. I think it was the
wrestling with. the finiteness of your life and
mortality. I've been very active my whole life,
involved in sport and things like that. Triathlons,
half marathons, 5Ks, 10Ks, hiking, Appalachian
Trail, other places, volcanoes in Rwanda and
all kinds of stuff. So I've always been... active
and when my cancer was diagnosed i was one of
those guys who just it was a total surprise because
i had no real symptoms you know i was as far
as i knew i was healthy i was active had no side
effect no symptoms like that so when you get
hit like that and all of a sudden you're like
Wait a second. Not because everybody kind of
feels invincible. It's not going to happen to
me. And it's not just about me getting older.
No, I was really in this place where we were
completely blindsided. Yeah. Excuse me. And so
that really forces you to reframe your why, because
all of a sudden I went from I'm going to live
forever to like, oh, my God, I could only have
a few years left. And so and then you realize
that, you know. Tomorrow is not promised to anyone.
So you have to go through. And I wondered how
many other people are out there thinking they're
fine, you know, and really what they were, excuse
me again, thinking they're fine. And if they
were surprised by something, how disappointed
would they have been in the life they lived or
the mediocrity they settled for? And fortunately,
I've been blessed and in a position when that
happened to me, I was like, you know, if I die
now, I die a happy man. I lived a good life,
did a lot of fun things. Of course, I'm not ready
to. And I've got, you know, 30 more years of
great stuff that I plan on doing. But a lot of
people get to that place, I believe, and have
regrets. And I don't want, you know, the people
who are in my circle and people who cross my
path. to find something, anything out that's
an adversity that comes to them and have regrets
about the life they've lived so far. So I began
to do this work and frame this concept and idea
and hopefully get it out there in front of as
many people as I can. Yeah. So did you, as a
result of going through this, did you kind of
have like a sense of urgency of like, or are
you seeing like suffering? Needless suffering
for people and you think and is there like some
vision of like I can help these people reduce
their suffering and help them step into something
that feels better in their life? You know, that's
a great question. And to be honest, my first
my first reaction is, no, I don't know that I've
noticed needless suffering. But what I've come
to realize and know is that many people are silently
suffering. And they don't really say it. They
don't really talk about it. And they lack or
I don't want to say they lack the bravery because
that's not fair or right. But they somehow don't
believe that they deserve better or can do better.
And they never talk about that because that's
being vulnerable. So I found that most people.
feel that way and it's just like a rule of averages
you know you can you can assume everybody does
and every once in a while somebody will say I'll
meet somebody like you and say no I'm I'm doing
fine I'm doing great I'm doing what I want to
do being who I want to be and all that but that's
much more rare than the person who's like yeah
I think I could be doing better and doing more
and so I think I came to terms with that during
this as I went through my own struggles talk
to people around me and realize there's a lot
of people silently suffering out there who who
don't believe they can do better than who they
are and that the mediocre life they've settled
for is good enough and that's how i describe
it in the book is the curse of good enough you
know i'm not best but I'm not the worst so and
they settle for not being the worst and and to
me not being the worst again goes back to what
we were talking about before is they're having
the wrong framework and approach to life in general
it's not about not being the worst because then
you're just comparing yourself to someone else
right and you can always find someone worse off
than the last person or worse off than you so
then what you do instead of trying to get better
you try to find somebody who's worse And then
you can just stay in that spot of not having
to improve and not having to be better. And that
to me is a real tragedy and a motivator for why
we need to get people out of the mindset of just
trying to find someone to be better than and
trying themselves to just improve on the capacity
and the ability that they have. Yeah. Okay. So
good. Yeah. So again, it's. We're kind of practiced
at thinking that we're mediocre, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that's accurate. And your book,
Becoming Epic, is a blueprint for stepping out
of that rehearsed mediocrity into something that
is... than what you've been settling for. Yeah,
it's a measurable thing and milestones that you
can achieve to getting better. Because the first
time someone takes a step forward and does better
than they thought they could do, it becomes addictive.
Yes. And you get a runner's high from that. You
know, you get that. that X, you know, the extreme
sport high from something like that. It's like,
I didn't think I could do this. In fact, uh,
just this morning I was, um, on a, on a, uh,
doctoral dissertation defense and this particular
student, um, first generation student, first
person in our family to go to college, let alone
get a doctoral degree, all this kind of stuff.
And, and, you know, when she never thought she
explained even in her, I never even would allow
myself to imagine that I could accomplish what
I've accomplished. And now that she did that,
she goes, the sky's the limit. Now she wants
to start a business and do this and do that.
And it was just, and that's what I mean is as
soon as someone does something that they were
told they could never do or that they shouldn't
try to do when they accomplish that. All of a
sudden, they see that they're better than they
thought they were, and they recognize, I've been
settling for this mediocre life and these mediocre
relationships, this mediocre standard, and all
of a sudden, no, I can't do better. And then
these four maxims, excellence, perspective, inspiration,
and compassion are four things that you can begin
to focus on today that can help you move towards
that epic life. Yeah. Yeah. And when people begin
to do that, their life becomes about impact.
Right. And that's what's exciting to me. The
reason I'm excited about your work is because
I want more people to step up. into the potential
impact they can make for the good of the world.
That's my selfish desire for people, for why
I want them to become epic. Because we want people
to step up and provide value, make a difference
for others. And when we do that, we all get lifted
up. Absolutely. And it goes in every direction
because I think a lot of times... There's fathers,
there's mothers, there's kids that don't even
believe they can add value to their family. And
so it could be something as small as that or
something as great as, you know, impacting an
entire community or industry or something like
that. So I never want to minimize even impact
because people say, well, I'm only going to impact
these two kids in my house. Well, listen, if
you do that well, the exponential effect of that
can be incredible. So take that seriously, too.
Exactly. Exactly. Hey, last question. So because
our time's up and we're going to definitely I
definitely want to bring you back if you're up
for it so we can dive into excellence, perception,
inspiration and compassion. But before we end
the show today, where can people check you out?
Where can they get a copy of your book and get
started on becoming epic? Yeah, well, thanks
for that. The best place to go for any of this
is. My website, MatthewKutz .com. And, you know,
K -U -T -Z is how you spell Kutz, so I'd love
to see you there. My email is there. My contact
information is there. All my books are there.
Some of my research is there, and you can download
that. So all of that's there. We have that website.
We also have another website called Battle for
the Bulge, which is a foundation for prostate
cancer awareness and education. We sponsor 5K
races as fundraisers. for prostate cancer awareness,
and there's some materials on there. I actually
just wrote, I have two new books. Becoming Epic
is launching now. Also, the book Diagnosed has
also just come out last week. That's my memoir,
so to speak, or my story about the prostate cancer
approach and the battle framework that I use
to get to the point of actually even talking
about living an epic life. Right on. You're a
prolific writer, it sounds like. Radiation knocked
me down. So I had I had a lot of time to sit
at home and write. So, yeah. Excellent. Excellent.
Matt Kutz, becoming epic. Thank you for being
on Vision Pros. And we look forward to having
you back. I'd love it. Thank you very much. Thank
you for being here today. I'm really happy that
you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking
forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward. This is going to get
more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement
as well. We'll invite people to participate in
the show. And thank you for giving us your time
and attention. Have an excellent time building
out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.