Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Vision Pros Live. I'm your host and coach,
Fletcher Ellington. So glad you're here. So glad
you're in this conversation because I believe
the conversations we hear on Vision Pros are
worth your time. You're gonna get something out
of them and it's gonna expand your view of the
world. This morning on our show, we have Arun
Mathur and he is the founder of Ulta... UltimQuest
Knowledge. And welcome to the show, Arum. Thank
you so much, Fletcher. It's a real pleasure to
be here. Yeah. And go ahead. And I may have butchered
the name of the company. So would you tell us
the company you're representing today, please?
Yes. I founded a training company by the name
of UltimQuest Knowledge. We're mainly delivering
training to professional accountants across the
world, also expanding into business leaders.
Into the which? Business leaders. Business leaders,
okay. People who make decisions in businesses.
Right on, right on. Okay, so important work,
right? You're talking about the accounting and
leadership, two very important things for business,
obviously, right? For sure. For sure. And it's
important because a lot of people who get into
business, especially a lot of entrepreneurs,
solopreneurs, they get in because they're passionate
about a service or a product, but they're not
necessarily accountants. They're not necessarily
even. leaders. So both of those topics are important
because we want those entrepreneurs, we want
those solopreneurs, we want those managers to
be leaders in whatever capacity that they have
to show up. Yeah? I agree 100%. Yes. Okay, cool.
Hey, before we get into the good stuff, let's
start off with a win. I always like to do that
because there is a lot of uncertainty and suffering
in our world today and we want to make remind
people that there is still plenty of good out
there and it's all about really looking for even
when disappointing things happen we want to continue
to look for the good um so what's something that's
going well in your life either professionally
or personally So, you know, Fletcher, one of
the things I find really gratifying is when I
deliver a course, I speak in a conference, even
when we speak in a podcast. and then people email
back or send a message through linkedin so some
of the messages i've got recently someone wrote
you know i entered your course expecting to be
bored out of my mind i didn't think you could
make ethics interesting somebody else wrote last
year you know i took your course on internal
control never thought that internal control could
be made interesting so it's very very gratifying
to get that kind of feedback when you know we
do put a lot of effort in in being relevant and
effective and so on so every one of these types
of messages that comes back really makes my day
right it tells us that the effort we're putting
is is worthwhile that there is a positive impact
of what we're trying to do right on yeah that's
very gratifying and encouraging um i personally
think ethics are fascinating So but I love that
you're able to take us take that topic and and
deliver it in a way where people who may not
find it interesting are in fact finding it interesting
and worth worthwhile. So nicely done. Sure. You
know, one thing I've seen and I've seen this
over and over. people have a perception that
ethics is like theoretical ethics is something
your grandmother might have told you it's not
related to business right like a lot of people
see things like you know you see a lot of media
coverage of wrongdoing frauds failures scandals
a lot of bad things are in the media i was speaking
in a conference last summer and this is the kind
of mindset that one of the q a things said a
lady stood up and said you know there's so much
going on out there like do you think ethics is
relevant And I responded to her by saying that,
you know, the media covers all the bad things.
It's not really covering the good things because
that's not really news, right? But in my experience,
from the clients I serve, the businesses I've
been involved with, those who are succeeding
are actually very much focused on ethics. They're
taking care of their customers. You know, they're
dealing with integrity. They are not trying to
cut corners, not trying to... uh work in the
gray areas so this is my reality right having
been in the business world for 40 some years
uh i'm seeing the distinction between taking
shortcuts and taking the the ethical kind of
approach and long term i think it's pretty much
um i would say it's essential for success it's
not optional yeah i love that um extra hold on
i'm just taking some notes uh i really want i
really want to highlight some things that you're
saying for our our listeners you talked about
integrity this is um a word that we throw around
a lot and i'm not sure that people really understand
the concept of integrity so i'm gonna offer a
suggestion and then you tell me if i'm on track
okay but i i believe at the core There are two
things at the core of integrity. Number one is
being your word. Right. Doing what you say you're
going to do. Right. Showing up. If it is at eight
o 'clock, then then you're there by eight. Like
being your word. It's like, you know, one of
the most powerful examples I can give is if you
drop your car off to an auto shop and you say,
you know, I really need this fixed by Tuesday
at noon. And the auto mechanic says, consider
it done. What he's saying is that while your
car right now is in a state of disrepair, I am
so practiced at being my word that you can consider
the work has already been completed. That's such
a good example, eh? Right? Yeah, yeah. When we
say consider it done, we're saying... i am my
word exactly yeah would you agree with that 100
so you know this is how things used to be you
know like this idea of honor that there was a
value in the word right the promise that you
made the commitment that you made it was like
irrefutable there was no doubt right and i would
say even in today's world where it is such a
integrated world the internet it's a global world
i think that integrity is still very very essential
for business you know we say something we do
it on a personal level i'll tell you like it's
also your own self -respect right if you make
a commitment and you keep it it in it increases
your own self -respect that you say okay i am
a person with character i'm a person with honor
what I say matters, right? I'm not just saying
just to get a sale or just to get a deal or something.
Your own self -respect will increase. I'll tell
you, like when we talk about ethics and we define
ethics, we talk about the word integrity. It's
a very, very simple concept. It's this idea of
not to deceive other people, the idea to commit
to speaking the truth. And I say that if you
were to ask a nine year old or 10 year old, what
is integrity? What is honesty? They would understand
you don't need to have a higher education and
all of that. Right. It's a very human kind of
thing that, you know, we interact with each other
in an honest manner. We don't try to deceive
someone. We don't try to manipulate people in
business. It's very interesting. I mean, what
I see. uh you know business can be complicated
but ultimately i'll give you one quick example
uh you might um receive incorrect invoicing from
your suppliers right yeah you might you might
receive a duplicate payment from your customers
so these are like your ethical tests like do
you correct it do you take that money like what
do you do with it right i think integrity is
very fundamental one thing fletcher you probably
don't know but i actually went back to the founders
of the system of capitalism to research whether
the people who created our system our system
of a capitalistic democracy whether they talked
about ethics they thought about ethics so what
i found very interesting they didn't use the
term ethics but the word integrity was there
right and what the founders of capitalism said
they said that integrity is an underlying principle
of the system of capitalism so they were not
saying get out there make as much money as you
can do whatever it takes they were saying get
out there make as much money as you can while
remaining in integrity right nice and honesty
and and really long term that would be the foundation
i think for success yeah you know uh i yeah i
i'm glad you you uh pointed that out that's that's
really um probably a bit of knowledge that many
of us don't know about our founding fathers the
other thing you mentioned was foundation so we
want to talk about this in relation to integrity
too because we talked about integrity being your
word um you know uh communicating honestly right
without the intent to deceive like being honest
no no intention to manipulate um and by the way
When we find businesses that operate this way,
don't we love doing business with them? That
is such an interesting observation. You know,
I say this, that in any interaction, whether
it's a supplier, a customer interaction, a landlord
-tenant interaction, a regulator, a regulatee,
like a lender. borrower, whichever interaction,
when we interact with ethical people, it's refreshing.
It's exciting. I think we naturally are drawn
to those people. And what that does is it creates
high trust. It creates a long, long -term relationship.
For example, if you look at my work, like we
do accounting work, we have clients. on one hand
that can be transactional you can say we'll come
in once a year we'll do your stuff we leave right
here's your fee and we're done right on the other
hand if you care about the client you put your
intellect in helping them to succeed and all
of that that relationship is very very fundamental
it becomes their secret of success yes when it
comes to fees and things like that the the client
does not care right like i went to a client a
couple of years ago about three years ago i said
you know we have not increased your fees we would
like to sit and discuss and you know we ended
up doing like a 10 increase so i actually asked
him i didn't tell him i asked him are you okay
if we do like a five percent this year five percent
next year and the client turned to me and said
no problem go ahead right because we're delivering
value we care about them and so on so uh in any
relationship i think you hit it you hit the nail
right on the head right yes you have that kind
of trust if you and people recognize right so
when we deal with suppliers we deal with customers
we deal with government we recognize when someone
is delivering value, we recognize when someone
is being honest, when someone is being helpful,
right? So this is not wasted. This is very, very
important point that you made. Yeah, absolutely.
Great. Thanks for elaborating on that. And then
let's return one last time to this concept of
integrity, because I love that you have brought
this up because I just think it's fundamental.
to the workability of a business of a marriage
of a country so what do i mean by that so i want
to give you an example that i frequently give
to my um clients and and i'm not so much giving
this to you um um around because i know you uh
get this but i do want if if people are listening
and they're interested in this concept of integrity
i want to uh give this as well there's Being
our word, there's also the idea that integrity
is a sense of workability. So when integrity
is present at a high level, that means there's
a high level of workability. For instance, if
you think of a wheel on a bicycle and it has
all the spokes. Right. Those spokes are not for
looks. Those spokes are. The number of spokes
are exact. The spacing is exact. The tension
on each of those spokes is exact. And the reason
is because those spokes are creating structural
integrity for the bicycle, right? That's a good
example. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. And if we pluck
out one or two of those spokes, Is it still going
to be rideable? Yes. But the structural integrity
has now been compromised. There's less workability.
And if you take out a couple more spokes, then
you're going to feel it when you're riding. You're
going to feel like, ooh, it's shaky. It doesn't
feel like it could give out, right? You pluck
out a few more. Now you've really compromised
the structural integrity and it fails. And so
I want to give it so that the workability has
been compromised. So I really want to invite
the listeners into this conversation to think
about integrity as a sense of workability. If
your marriage is not working. Right. What's probably
present is there is a lack of integrity. there's
a lack of workability there that the integrity
somehow has been compromised um in your business
all right in our in our in a country when there
is low integrity right the workability is compromised
and we begin to see that and and hear it and
and and recognize it That's an amazing, amazing
example, Fletcher. Can I take a minute and just
add my two cents to that? Please, yes. So when
you started describing the wheel and the spokes,
like I connected to that thought immediately.
So that's such an intuitive kind of interpretation.
I think that's fantastic. The thought that came
in my mind is if you think of any organization,
any business unit, government, not -for -profit,
any kind of... organizational unit even a family
for example we have interactions right in our
ecosystem we have suppliers customers government
we have other people around us that impact our
success right like for example if you are in
violation of regulations the government is going
to make it very difficult right they're going
to come they're going to audit they're going
to be all over your place right if you have a
bad relationship with your lender there always
is a threat they're going to call their loan
and you're going to be screwed you're going to
be scrambling for financing and all that similarly
if you have let's say a weak relationship just
like you were mentioning about the spokes if
you have a weak relationship uh with your customer
in the sense that they see you as a like a unit
right so i pay so much for this if somebody else
gives me a cheaper deal i'll go there then you're
at risk right so applying that same integrity
idea in recognizing that a business or an organization
operates in an ecosystem And if those relationships
are strong, it strengthens you, right? So if
you have high trust with the regulator, high
trust with your employees, high trust relationship
with your suppliers and your customers. So, you
know, in COVID, we saw this, right? In COVID,
we saw a dramatic disruption, restriction of
business, people being shut down, retail being
shut down, factories being shut down and all
that. and it tested it tested your relationships
right yeah which under normal circumstances perhaps
you were chugging along and you were happy but
then suddenly this thing comes in everything
stops and we saw both good and bad behavior right
so it goes back to integrity it goes back to
your ethics like how strong is your relationship
with the supplier how strong is your relationship
with your employees like i i was sitting in a
flight next to a a CFO of a manufacturing company.
He shared a very interesting example I'll share
with you. So I asked him, you know, how did your
company respond in COVID, the shutdown, all of
that. He said to me they hired a new salesperson
one week before the shutdown. So in other words,
brand new employee. gets on board within a week
the company's operations shut down the customers
are not there the company is not operating he
said to me this salesman called him twice and
said can you fire me because i'm not doing any
work right i feel really guilty taking the salary
because the company shut down here's how the
ceo responded he said i run a company that is
very successful we've had eight or nine years
of tremendous profits we're in the dish right
now like things are not normal you're part of
our team we're going to support you hang in there
make whatever phone calls you can make you are
part of our team and we will not abandon you
right so that shows the integrity the ethics
of that leader you can imagine like covet came
and went you know, they probably got back on
their feet within maybe six months, eight months,
whatever. But you can see the effect of that
kind of ethics, that kind of integrity, right?
Yeah. And when you have the privilege of working
with someone that embodies that level of integrity,
you want to be on that team. You suddenly are...
happy to give your loyalty that to that exactly
right yeah that's a powerful leader amazing leader
and and i've run across three or four people
like that because i asked this question from
many people i was talking to one gentleman in
toronto about how they responded to covet he
was also the chief operating officer of the company
uh he articulated a very similar ethics he said
that we did not fire anyone because we had long
-term employees we wanted to support them and
so on and i asked him so did they all stay with
you you didn't fire how did it go the funny story
he told me was they had like an office manager
type of a role so during covid some of the employees
were not there so they moved her into the company's
boardroom And over two or three months, she settled
into the boardroom. That became her office. She
was very happy because it was a very grand kind
of an office. But when COVID finished, they asked
her to go back, and she found that very sad,
right? So she left the company because they were
moving her back into her own little office, right?
So I'm so delighted to hear these kinds of stories
that leaders did the right thing, supported their
people, didn't abandon their people. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. That's refreshing. um so quick question
for you right we uh the the show that we're on
here is called vision pros yes and we love to
ask people what their vision is and what i mean
by that is we all have a clarified story or many
of us have a clarified story that lives up here
and we're working to bring that into the physical
realm so question for you arun is What is your
vision? So the short answer is that my vision
is to communicate the return on investment from
ethical business practices to as many business
leaders in every sector across the globe. So
basically, I want to demonstrate to them that
this is not something which is theory. This is
not something which... It's nice to have, not
like a code of conduct you stick on a shelf or
something you put on your wall, but this is something
you want to live and make your decisions accordingly,
right? So my vision is to explain in detail,
to persuade them to give ethics a chair at the
table. right so you're making a business decision
you're under pressure you have a lot of moving
parts not to abandon ethics but to think about
ethics right and this is because you will see
a long -term benefit you will see increase in
trust you will see a lot of very specific returns
they're not quantifiable it's not like a tit
for tat kind of a calculation but that's my personal
vision for my life My life purpose is exactly
that. On a personal level, what I would love
to do is to address very large crowds. So, you
know, for example, I've spoken to 300, 400 people.
I would love to get into a much larger audience
where in that same time you're impacting more
people. That's my personal kind of goal. Of course,
we have a number of courses. We have a number
of on -demand courses. I talk about how to improve
governance. I talk about different aspects of
ethics. I have courses on key performance indicators,
internal control. So these are all the things
that... I have gathered in about 40, 45 years
worth of work. Like in small business, big business,
I've seen governments, I've served on a number
of boards. So I see the governance from that
side. So that would be an amazing life purpose
to be able to have people think about ethics,
make their decisions based on ethics. strive
for the best possible decision, not just to make
a quick decision. Yes, this is inspiring. And
I hope y 'all who are out there listening are
really hearing this because this is not necessarily
a popular stance. We frequently look for the
shortcut. We frequently look for the loophole.
We frequently look to see. who's looking who's
not looking right um what can i get away with
and and this is um a wonderful challenge and
to i encourage you all to like really hear what
he's saying and ask yourself what is my standard
what is my personal standard when it comes to
living ethically is it do i do it when it's convenient
Because that's easy. The challenge is, am I willing
to do it when it's not convenient, when it is
inconvenient? Am I willing to do it when it's
going to cost me? Am I willing to do it when
it hurts? Right. For sure. So, you know, Fletcher,
it's so interesting you're putting it across
like this. It's such a nice way to explain, you
know, one of the thoughts that. came into my
mind when you think about warren buffett for
example like he has outdone the entire financial
sector the stock market the investment area consistently
over like decades right yes so the question arises
when buffett looks at an opportunity acquisition
opportunity to buy shares in a company to control
a company uh you know We asked like, you know,
what is the first criteria for Mr. Buffett in
evaluating or looking? So now, you know, in my
field in finance and accounting, you know, the
obvious answers would be like earnings, cash
flow, financial strength, synergy, projected
earnings, strength of the company and marketplace.
All of these are kind of the normal things we've
been taught in accounting, in MBA and all of
that. But with Mr. Buffett, it's none of that
stuff. He doesn't jump into looking at the financials
and all of that. He looks at the integrity of
the leaders of that company. He looks at evaluating
their level of honesty. And going back to your
point, he looks at when times are tough, not
when times are good, right? Because when times
are good, everybody's successful, everybody's
good, right? So what he does is he looks at whether
they explain bad news. In a transparent and wholesome
manner, the good and bad and the ugly, they put
it out there for their investors, for their employees,
for the public. Or do they sugarcoat and they
make it look like, you know, things are better
than they are. So if Buffett has doubts about
that matter in terms of the company's founders,
the company's executives, he doesn't bother getting
into the financial. He just walks away. Right.
And look at the success he's achieved by applying
that first kind of principle. Yeah. So there's
something to this, you know. Yeah, that's remarkable.
You know, we're coming up against our time. So
I want to encourage the listeners. Look, if you
are interested in having a conversation with
Arun, if you're interested in learning more about
what he's offering, if you're if you need his
services, if you find you're in a position where
you need his services and you want somebody that
you can trust. This man is all about ethics.
So if you want somebody that's trustworthy on
your team, I invite you to reach him. And how
do we get in touch with you? So my company is
called UltimQuest Knowledge Inc. So that's where
the courses are. I'm very, very happy to speak
to corporations, to speak to associations, to
speak to any kind of a group. uh where my message
would resonate would be of value um interestingly
i'm able to customize my message for different
industrial sectors for different types of situations
we do that all the time uh very very happy to
speak so ultimate quest knowledge is is is the
thing i also have a personal website which is
arun mathur .ca so you can also look me up there
i have a linkedin presence i have uh i think
we we are on instagram we have a number of things
like that on the go so you know this idea of
return on investment from ethical business practices
be very very happy to talk to that we can we
can talk about how like what can you do in your
organization right what are some of the ideas
that you could implement one of the other things
i've done is i've created a very very simple
four -step formula on how to confront an ethical
dilemma. So when you feel uncomfortable about
a business situation, you're being asked to do
something you're not comfortable in doing, you
think it might be hurting someone, it might have
negative consequences. So this kind of four -step
approach is like boom, boom, boom, you go through.
So I explain how to do that. We're actually talking
about creating like an app. I haven't done it
yet, but creating an app where we harness the
power of ai and my knowledge of all the types
of ethical dilemmas so that we would provide
like a step -by -step guidance on which would
give you courage which give you confidence help
you to come to a better decision than just succumbing
to pressure or perhaps you know maybe not doing
anything right that's the other thing when you're
under a lot of pressure we just kind of do nothing
right yes so to avoid this kind of pitfall to
avoid getting into a mess right because the scandals
are out there every day right every day you see
in the papers right failures you know huge failures
so we want to prevent all of that by being proactive
Yeah, right on. So much good stuff here. I hope
you all have gotten something to take away from
this conversation. I know I have. It's inspiring
to meet people who are striving to live by their
ethics, who are striving to live from a place
of integrity. So Arun, thank you so much for
being on the show today. It's been a pleasure.
And again, if you... have been moved by this
conversation and want more information, check
out his website, connect with him on LinkedIn.
And thank you for being a part of the show. Thank
you so much, Fletcher. I had a great time speaking
with you and I would love to talk to you further.
It's such a pleasure. We'll have you back. And
now it's time for you all to get out there, be
a source of kindness, be a source of contribution.
You do have something to offer this world. And
I believe in you. Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision
Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your
reactions as these episodes continue to move
forward. This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show.
And thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision
and becoming a vision pro yourself.