WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.600 what you're working on and the field that you're 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:06.120 in, if you don't mind. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 00:00:06.179 --> 00:00:09.160 Thank you so much for having me. My name is Maria 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:14.580 or Mary. Well, I'm based in London and I've been 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:17.059 a healthcare product designer, healthcare user, 00:00:17.260 --> 00:00:19.760 experienced product designer for the past seven 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:23.280 years. And I had a chance to work with several 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:26.379 health tech companies, primarily American, Canadian. 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:29.800 and australian healthcare companies helping them 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:34.479 shape innovative products and create experiences 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:36.759 for people so they can manage their disorders 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:43.060 better live lives full of joy and escape the 00:00:43.060 --> 00:00:47.640 need to work so much with our hospital and healthcare 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.719 system and have better preventative healthcare 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.390 as well I love that. I love that. And as I've 00:00:54.390 --> 00:00:59.109 mentioned to you before, I'm not very knowledgeable 00:00:59.109 --> 00:01:02.170 in this area. So I'm glad to actually have this 00:01:02.170 --> 00:01:05.650 conversation with someone who has a major experience 00:01:05.650 --> 00:01:08.510 in this. So if you wouldn't mind just defining 00:01:08.510 --> 00:01:11.629 or informing us what healthcare product design 00:01:11.629 --> 00:01:17.250 is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So healthcare product 00:01:17.250 --> 00:01:20.810 design, in my case, means all of the products. 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:25.900 that are used by patients and in clinical setting. 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:29.000 Let's break it down this way. You go to the hospital 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:31.579 and your doctor is using something. So they are 00:01:31.579 --> 00:01:33.819 likely using some software, for example, software 00:01:33.819 --> 00:01:37.500 to store your data or maybe the software that 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:40.719 is used to analyze your results, your MRI scan 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:43.680 or anything else that is also healthcare. And 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:46.920 also we have patient -based healthcare. Or even 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.640 preventative healthcare, which means you may 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:54.099 upload an example to track your blood sugar if 00:01:54.099 --> 00:01:57.840 you have issues with diabetes or anything else. 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.719 So apps like that are also part of this healthcare 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:07.599 industry. apps and products and services that 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.620 help people with serious disorders, even cancer, 00:02:11.819 --> 00:02:15.659 managing your patient journey, communicating 00:02:15.659 --> 00:02:20.599 with your provider, managing your bills, financial 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:24.020 aspects of your journey as a patient, and many 00:02:24.020 --> 00:02:26.819 more. So by and large, it is a huge industry 00:02:26.819 --> 00:02:32.939 that practically covers all use cases. Starting 00:02:32.939 --> 00:02:35.759 from the very moment you are diagnosed or even 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.860 before that to the moment while you are cured, 00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:42.759 being cured. And after that, so you don't get 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.719 sick again. And, you know, what's crazy is now 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:48.719 I have an aha moment as you put it all together. 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:54.210 So me knowing that I'm a patient, I know. Back 00:02:54.210 --> 00:02:56.949 in the day, so I'm 46 years old, so I remember 00:02:56.949 --> 00:03:00.169 not having an app to communicate with my provider. 00:03:00.370 --> 00:03:04.129 I remember having to go to the office and have 00:03:04.129 --> 00:03:06.969 that conversation to schedule another appointment 00:03:06.969 --> 00:03:09.689 for the appointment that I have. So now I'm having 00:03:09.689 --> 00:03:13.009 that aha moment, realizing how you're making 00:03:13.009 --> 00:03:16.550 it more hands -on for us to be able to have that 00:03:16.550 --> 00:03:20.050 access to our healthcare provider. Not to mention, 00:03:20.090 --> 00:03:23.009 I think about when we get prescriptions. it doesn't 00:03:23.009 --> 00:03:26.650 take them long to send it off to the prescription 00:03:26.650 --> 00:03:32.129 place. So you are the technology behind us having 00:03:32.129 --> 00:03:37.770 more an effective, cohesive healthcare communication, 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:41.430 as well as, as you mentioned, if you're diagnosed 00:03:41.430 --> 00:03:43.930 with something, you want to be able to figure 00:03:43.930 --> 00:03:47.150 out how to manage that. So you're the key behind 00:03:47.150 --> 00:03:50.740 all of that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And 00:03:50.740 --> 00:03:52.479 it's fantastic that you mentioned communication 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.080 with your doctor, because on the side of the 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:58.319 doctor, imagine that you have a normal consult, 00:03:58.580 --> 00:04:00.960 so appointment with a doctor, and you're providing 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.280 them with information about your state for the 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:07.780 past weeks, years, right? And also on top of 00:04:07.780 --> 00:04:11.319 that, some blood work results, right? So anything 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:16.879 that you have really collected. and brought to 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:19.240 the doctor and they have to analyze all of this 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:22.019 information the question is how do you analyze 00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:24.199 it so it doesn't take more than five minutes 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:27.839 and you do not miss important detail right so 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:30.680 that is very innovative technologies like ai 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:36.519 actually help because ai is able to detect patterns 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.569 and help doctor in our case analyze what was 00:04:40.569 --> 00:04:43.310 happening to you in the past and make a decision 00:04:43.310 --> 00:04:45.970 much faster maybe even they would recommend a 00:04:45.970 --> 00:04:49.529 few treatment programs based on the protocols 00:04:49.529 --> 00:04:52.649 that are currently practiced so by and large 00:04:52.649 --> 00:04:54.990 it is a digital doctor anyway but obviously we 00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:58.189 still need a doctor to check everything's all 00:04:58.189 --> 00:05:01.490 right but still yeah it's much much more efficient 00:05:01.490 --> 00:05:06.689 than going over all of your records maybe The 00:05:06.689 --> 00:05:10.829 big files they would have to go through, you 00:05:10.829 --> 00:05:13.769 know, like, okay, you know, they lick their finger 00:05:13.769 --> 00:05:15.949 and just go through the file. Like, I remember 00:05:15.949 --> 00:05:18.670 that like it was yesterday. And now they could 00:05:18.670 --> 00:05:21.910 just swipe up. And, you know, I really enjoy 00:05:21.910 --> 00:05:24.310 having this conversation because I tell you, 00:05:24.370 --> 00:05:27.689 it's just the most interesting thing how innovation 00:05:27.689 --> 00:05:30.750 and things that you do that we don't see, we 00:05:30.750 --> 00:05:34.620 feel that it's definitely more. available to 00:05:34.620 --> 00:05:37.120 us and that we can now have a real conversation 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.660 now, you know, say all that we need to say in 00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:41.699 a dialogue and hoping that they're reading it. 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:45.759 So it's, like I said, I'm super excited because 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.060 now I'm like, oh, I got it, Mary. I got it. I 00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:50.680 know what we're talking about now. So with that 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:54.439 being said, is there, now that we're having this 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.879 conversation, as I'm acting as the listener, 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:02.829 is there ever going to be a time where a patient 00:06:02.829 --> 00:06:06.889 would think that it's more of the AI or the tools 00:06:06.889 --> 00:06:10.069 that's diagnosing us rather than the human physician. 00:06:10.490 --> 00:06:12.889 Like, have you come across that question before? 00:06:14.569 --> 00:06:18.509 I think there is also a big question that we 00:06:18.509 --> 00:06:20.170 have not touched, which is the legal barrier. 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:23.709 Obviously, a doctor is quite limited in terms 00:06:23.709 --> 00:06:27.250 of how much AI on a daily basis they can use. 00:06:27.870 --> 00:06:30.310 at least legally, maybe in their private practice, 00:06:30.389 --> 00:06:34.889 it's more flexible. But with that being said, 00:06:35.009 --> 00:06:38.370 there is an aspect of being safe, staying on 00:06:38.370 --> 00:06:41.509 the safe side. So AI does not push the doctor 00:06:41.509 --> 00:06:44.269 to make a decision that will not benefit the 00:06:44.269 --> 00:06:48.329 patient, right? So definitely, if we're talking 00:06:48.329 --> 00:06:52.389 about the mental health space, and for example, 00:06:52.389 --> 00:06:55.490 right now we have chatbots that act as a therapist. 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.879 And sometimes the user cannot even understand 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:01.100 that they are talking to a chatbot, not a real 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:04.500 human, which means that right now we are already 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:08.699 at a place where chatbots are so good, even emotional 00:07:08.699 --> 00:07:12.259 intelligence -wise, that even if the chatbot 00:07:12.259 --> 00:07:15.800 is suggesting you something, even doing cognitive 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:19.620 therapy, cognitive behavior therapy, it might 00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:22.000 be not significantly worse than a real therapist. 00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:25.720 Got it, got it. so um it is also a matter of 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:29.500 objection to using the technology in itself because 00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:32.000 many patients just don't want to be treated by 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.639 ai right so we didn't trust it enough yeah it's 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.879 still stupid and human human is responsible for 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.899 for the result right so with that um sometimes 00:07:42.899 --> 00:07:46.899 people are more apprehensive of using ai as a 00:07:46.899 --> 00:07:51.160 therapist that will be rapidly changing. And 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:54.079 that is changing these days because it's much 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:58.720 cheaper to use AI -based solution much faster. 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:02.399 And the quality might be not significantly worse. 00:08:02.420 --> 00:08:04.740 I'm not talking about all cases, but for example, 00:08:04.740 --> 00:08:07.120 in mental health space might be the case. And 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.060 as did you tell me about your vision and all 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:12.480 this, how did you get to this journey to loving 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:17.420 something so completely different? Yeah, absolutely. 00:08:17.620 --> 00:08:22.360 So when I have started exploring healthcare industry 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:25.720 70 years ago, I was a CMO in the biggest medical 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:30.480 tourism provider in Eastern Europe. And at that 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:33.220 point, I wasn't really able to influence the 00:08:33.220 --> 00:08:36.179 product that we are building, because I was responsible 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:40.340 for marketing. And that's when I decided to change 00:08:40.340 --> 00:08:44.820 my career. and start working on the product instead 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:48.620 of only marketing it. And that's how I got into 00:08:48.620 --> 00:08:52.039 healthcare and then obviously health tech, so 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:54.659 health technology, and working in digital products 00:08:54.659 --> 00:08:58.639 and services supporting digital products. May 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.820 I ask if this is, are you degreed in actual product 00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:07.740 design or in technology? And then you were able 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:12.210 to choose where you wanted to go? No, my background 00:09:12.210 --> 00:09:19.149 is in marketing and economics. Nice, nice. After 00:09:19.149 --> 00:09:22.250 that, I received extra education, additional 00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:24.610 education to work in product design seven years 00:09:24.610 --> 00:09:31.110 ago. But primarily, I got my degree from marketing. 00:09:31.409 --> 00:09:35.299 Wow, that is it. It's such a big difference, 00:09:35.379 --> 00:09:38.139 in my opinion. Do you feel like it's a big difference 00:09:38.139 --> 00:09:40.279 going from marketing to healthcare product design? 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.240 I wouldn't say so because primarily I'm working 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:48.879 with small to mid -sized companies. Sometimes 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.419 we are working on innovative projects for big 00:09:51.419 --> 00:09:53.779 corporations, but quite often we are working 00:09:53.779 --> 00:09:58.139 on product that we must also understand how to 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:02.759 sell it. So that is an integral part of my job. 00:10:03.210 --> 00:10:05.990 to understand how whatever we are creating will 00:10:05.990 --> 00:10:08.409 be adopted by the market, which includes also 00:10:08.409 --> 00:10:12.210 product market fit. So meaning the product that 00:10:12.210 --> 00:10:16.590 I'm creating or we are creating is actually accepted 00:10:16.590 --> 00:10:22.190 by the market. So you actually get an opportunity 00:10:22.190 --> 00:10:26.970 to help enhance lives behind the scenes. And 00:10:26.970 --> 00:10:30.570 now I can see the marketing side of everything. 00:10:32.549 --> 00:10:34.889 I guess when you're developing and marketing, 00:10:34.990 --> 00:10:37.870 you pretty much analyze and know what the people 00:10:37.870 --> 00:10:40.450 want or need, but you're doing pretty much the 00:10:40.450 --> 00:10:43.610 same thing in this area. Am I right? Am I on 00:10:43.610 --> 00:10:48.190 the same? Yeah, yeah, absolutely agree with you 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:50.990 because when you're developing a product, generally, 00:10:51.230 --> 00:10:53.149 you have an idea of what you want to create, 00:10:53.230 --> 00:10:55.330 but you do not know exactly what would work for 00:10:55.330 --> 00:10:58.000 the patient. That's why when we are working on 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.259 the prototype, on the first version of the product, 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:02.860 we are collecting feedback. So just like we're 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:05.500 having right now this conversation, I will be 00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:07.559 having a conversation with another patient and 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:09.519 showing them the first version of the product, 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.279 collecting their feedback. Based on this feedback, 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:14.539 we will be iterating, so creating new versions, 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:18.320 obviously optimizing the product, improving the 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:21.500 product. And as a result, there will be a final... 00:11:21.820 --> 00:11:24.259 more or less final product that will be shipped 00:11:24.259 --> 00:11:28.860 and marketed directly ads or any any other means 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:32.080 yeah so in you they have the best of both worlds 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:38.700 exactly yeah i like that making you uh an asset 00:11:38.700 --> 00:11:41.919 to the company i love that so another question 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.299 i would love to ask is now that you've been in 00:11:44.299 --> 00:11:47.779 this for seven years so many things change what's 00:11:47.779 --> 00:11:53.740 your why I think why was exactly the same seven, 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.860 eight years ago. And I had a banner which said, 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:01.200 if you lived your life, actually, yeah, let me 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:06.320 remember this banner because I remember the meaning 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.139 and the feeling that it's a walk. But the core 00:12:09.139 --> 00:12:13.379 message was that if you help somebody live one 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:16.940 day without pain, your life wasn't wasted. And 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:22.019 exactly the same why is why I'm doing what I'm 00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:24.580 doing right now. So helping a person to live 00:12:24.580 --> 00:12:27.860 a life with less pain or ideally no pain, that 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:30.620 is a goal of mine. And through our products, 00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:34.019 they definitely achieve it. You know what's interesting 00:12:34.019 --> 00:12:36.700 is the fact that you're in product design and 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:38.740 you're a human being, and I'm sure you go to 00:12:38.740 --> 00:12:40.779 the doctor and receive all the other services 00:12:40.779 --> 00:12:44.179 that we have the benefit of. When you go, I'm 00:12:44.179 --> 00:12:46.399 sure you're like, oh, I have something to do 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:48.299 with that. Do you ever have that moment like, 00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:54.899 oh, I did good? Unfortunately, no. No? Because 00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:58.279 majority of the services are not as innovative, 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.519 unfortunately, at least here in London, because 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:07.820 we use NHS. It is state -owned healthcare system, 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:12.500 unlike American one. So American market is a 00:13:12.500 --> 00:13:14.240 little bit more innovative. We have innovative 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.789 solutions here as well. definitely i've used 00:13:16.789 --> 00:13:20.889 many of them but still it is a little bit different 00:13:20.889 --> 00:13:23.850 and the nuances and aspects that i have applied 00:13:23.850 --> 00:13:27.529 in in american markets will not necessarily be 00:13:27.529 --> 00:13:30.409 very useful here but patient -wise definitely 00:13:30.409 --> 00:13:34.750 definitely if the doctor is really into tech 00:13:34.750 --> 00:13:39.220 they are using modern technologies Apps, that 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:41.840 definitely is the case in private. Thank you 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:43.740 for being here today. I'm really happy that you 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:46.019 tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward 00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:49.539 to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue 00:13:49.539 --> 00:13:51.340 to move forward. This is going to get more and 00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:53.379 more fun. We'll have more and more engagement 00:13:53.379 --> 00:13:55.460 as well. We'll invite people to participate in 00:13:55.460 --> 00:13:57.639 the show. And thank you for giving us your time 00:13:57.639 --> 00:13:59.940 and attention. Have an excellent time building 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:02.259 out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.