Hey everybody, welcome back to Vision Pros Live.
I'm your host and coach, Fletcher Ellingson.
I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad that you
are in this conversation. Today on the show,
we have Sonny Grappone, and he is the president
of Precision Accounting and Consulting, and he's
going to give us... The Goods. I listened to
one of his podcast shows and I was impressed
by how they just got to the facts. No fluff.
And that's what I like. So, Sonny, welcome to
the show. Pleasure. Thank you so much for having
me. It's a pleasure. Yeah, you bet, man. Hey,
before we get into it. I always like to start
off with the win because there's a lot of uncertainty.
There's a lot of suffering in the world. We want
to remind people that they're still good and
we can create good intentionally. So what's something
that's going well in your world? What's going
well in my world? Well, I have a lot going on.
I guess from a personal standpoint, my children.
you know uh you know i have two girls a four
a four -year -old and a two -year -old lena and
gabriella um so they keep me young and they keep
me able you know um they're also my motivation
right you know so when you have young kids like
that it's like you know i always tell my wife
these are our earning years right now you know
i'm 41 and i'm like you know so trying to balance
The family life and the work life is a challenge,
but at the same time, you know, when I come to
work and I'm working until 11, 12 o 'clock at
night, you know, working on so many different
things, I know my motivation's there. You know,
all I have to do is go upstairs while my daughter's
sleeping, you know, watch her, and I know why
I'm working so hard, you know. Family is something
that I didn't think, not that it wasn't possible,
but, like, it just wasn't in my vision, right?
Yeah. you know in the beginning you know uh when
i was like 32 33 i um i was traveling you know
just doing everything that i i i loved at the
time you know and i didn't see a family uh in
store for me and you know god surprised me and
uh i met my wife and you know the rest was history
within within a year of meeting her we got married
bought a house a year later we had our first
daughter and then 18 months later we had our
second so of joy comes in thank you yeah yeah
yeah yeah uh our children can definitely be a
bright spot and that that inspiration so yeah
well said well said hey um so you're in the uh
the you were in the accounting and consulting
business and the show here we've got is called
vision pros so that's a big industry there's
a lot of players but i want to hear from you
What's your vision? So, you know, when I first
started this business, you know, this might sound
a little cliche or like, I don't know. I always
felt in my bones, like since I was younger, that
I'd always be an entrepreneur because, you know,
since I was a young kid, I always, you know,
I've been working since my first job was 12 years
old. uh bagging groceries from my parents at
their grocery store my mother was a bookkeeper
uh for wall bounds i don't know if you've ever
heard of wall bounds they're in new york uh so
i reside in new york uh long island i grew up
in queens new york and probably tough on my accent
um but you know growing up at 12 years old first
thing i did to make money was bag groceries that
put a little tip jar out there and i would make
like you know 75 bucks in a day back then for
a young kid that was great you know that was
awesome yeah yeah so you know getting forward
and uh moving forward in my life you know i always
just got attracted to making money and i knew
that i always wanted to be my own boss you know
and you experience that more so when you work
for somebody and you see all the all you're contributing
to to making them more money you know and you
know i kind of didn't want that for myself and
i remember i'm not a skeptic i don't really believe
too much in like psychics or stuff like that
but i remember i went we were like george it's
a place where people go away in upstate new york
and uh i was away with my family and there's
a psychic that's been there for like 25 30 years
she's been she's like a staple there my parents
all believe in it my mother and all this stuff
so you should go i'm like all right you know
and i went to the psychic and i remember her
telling me you know she did the social spiel
and she's like you know i see this vision that
you're going to be your own boss and always follow
your intuition your own gut you know people are
going to talk behind your back and people are
going to and i'm like where are you getting this
from she's like you're going to have two kids
you know and she she nailed it on the head and
then i remember saying that somebody's going
to come into your life that you haven't seen
in a long time you know and it so happened within
a week later my father you know who uh i was
never brought up by my real father you know he
was always in and out of my life he came back
into my life that week you know and it was just
like just do it so it kind of like hit me and
like kind of reassured things for me you know
like that you know maybe this is my path you
know and i did i opened up my own uh my first
real business was an auto detailing business
um i had a you know a passion for cars and you
know just taking something old and making it
look new again you know i just something about
that i loved and i had a real skill for it so
that was my first um act in entrepreneurship
and i was successful with it and um i didn't
like the fact that my body had so much wear and
tear on it and uh after like a couple years of
doing it so um my mother was like listen why
don't you go back to school you know i was 26
and I was older and I'm like, go back to school.
I said, let me take one class. I took one class
and I fell in love with it. I actually liked
to learn. What was the class? What was it? It
was social... What the hell was it? Sociology?
You know, it was just like more about philosophy,
life. And I just really took an after and I was
interested and I saw the difference. And I always
say this to kids, you know, I feel like you don't
really know yourself until you're 25. I feel
like that's age, like when you really mature
and kind of know what you want. And I went back
to school and I started from scratch and I decided
to go with accounting. economy safe and my family
has an act for it you know and i just saw that
how it kind of went natural with me and um and
after i got out of school i worked corporate
for a while i worked in manhattan for a big firm
called canton fitzgerald i consulted there for
many years and then uh i consulted in some other
firms that i developed my own firm and uh and
a guy i was consulting for um where i worked
for him for a couple years um i brought in so
much business for him where he i actually had
the uh i had the upper hand in negotiating after
a while and i kind of said listen the clients
i bring in going forward i want to put him into
my business and why don't you become partner
with me that's doug carpenter and uh he said
yes and the rest was history right on right now
well that that is a great story um and i love
that yeah you you were an early entrepreneur
then you went back to school you fell in love
with learning at a new level found something
that suited you really well excelled at it and
and then created created another business out
of that and and you and this uh phil came became
partners what a great story thank you Yeah, it's
been very fulfilling. Yeah, it is. It's a fulfilling,
you know, our services align in the CFO and tax
world. So we have, you know, where I'm the kind
of outsourced CFO and my partner Doug is a tax
guru. But I basically go into businesses that
are struggling, that are really at their, I wouldn't
say their lowest end, but I always say this in
business, nobody comes to us when things are
good in the county. You know, people come to
us when things are bad. Yes. You guys and attorneys,
right? I mean, no one's there proactively. So
I listened to your podcast that you had on the
website and I said this at the beginning of the
show, but what I liked about it was there was
just no fluff. You guys got right to it. And
I recommend people listening to that. And I know
you're going to be doing some other episodes
as well. on that one you just got right to giving
some easy advice that anybody could implement
right like like reducing your taxes uh reducing
the amount of taxes you pay um putting away money
like what would you give me a couple bits of
yummy advice for you know small to moderate -sized
businesses who maybe don't know a lot about this
sure um you know there's a lot you can be doing
to uh you know save on taxes but you know you
know but first of all it all starts in getting
your house in order right and when i say getting
your house in order i mean you know if you're
a mid to small to mid -sized business get your
books in order first you know i can't tell you
how many people we get where we um you know,
they want to reduce their taxes. We want to look
at everything and then we get their books and
either they don't have any or they're, they're
a nightmare, you know, and they don't take any
stockhold. And the books is like, you know, the,
the crux of everything, you know, that's the
heart, that's the beat, you know, that kind of
shows you a whole broader picture on what's going
on in your business, you know, and through that,
we can kind of see, you know, where you can capitalize,
you know, there could be a lot of stuff that,
you know, you're. One thing is a lot of people,
business owners, don't write off enough through
their own business. I always tell them, write
off your car. Write off your car lease, your
utilities, your phone bill. Look into also state
tax programs that your state's doing if you're
a certain type of corporate formation. know they
do that to entice people right um in new york
we have something called the pass through entity
tax where it allows you to write off your state
income tax through your business okay so you
pay your income tax your personal income tax
through the business and what happens is it turns
into significant tax savings you know someone
yeah we've seen um We've saved numbers of people,
business owners, a lot of money. We just had
one guy we signed up in Brooklyn. He owns a couple
of restaurants. We saved him close to $50 ,000
just in his passive -renting tax. You have to
do an S -election. There's a timetable to that,
but there's certain things you can do to alleviate
that tax burden with simple steps like that,
doing your research. You know, making sure you're
depreciating, capitalizing, you know, all that
you can. You know, people don't realize when
you're starting a business, right, at a stage
you're building, you know, a brick and mortar,
stuff like that. All that stuff before you open
the business is all depreciation, capital expenditures
that you could be spreading out and getting depreciation
for tax savings. It's just like a lot of key
items. But this is why people come to us, right?
for that type of insight. Simple things like
opening up an HSA, right? You could write off
pre -tax up to $8 ,000 in an HSA to a 401k. There's
just many facets that you can turn on, but you
also have to be in the right financial... where
I say that is you have to have the funds to do
that. A lot of people don't have the funds to
start a 401k. They're living check to check,
week to week. I'll say this. The mindset that
a lot of business owners go by, and this is no
fault of their own because nobody ever told them
or never thought outside the box. If I can make
payroll and I can pay myself, I'm doing okay.
And that is not the case. If you were thinking
with that mindset, that is the wrong mindset.
Because more than likely, you are not doing okay.
Because nobody wants to see the hard truth. And
when they look into their books and see what
they're actually doing, I would say 50 % of businesses
probably are at a loss. But because they see
that they can pay themselves and they're making
payroll, they're thinking, oh, you know. Things
are OK. And that's when people come to us because
all of a sudden cash flow gets tight and they're
not able to pay themselves as much as they can
or they can't afford to hire a new person. They're
saying, what am I doing wrong? And that's where
we come in and say, well, you've been operating
the wrong way for a long time. You know, we need
to make some changes. You know, maybe. Yeah.
Salary. So let me play a devil's advocate because
some of our listeners might be listening to this
and they'll be like, yeah, that all sounds good,
Sonny. But, you know, I got to pay you. and that's
just one more bill. So speak to that mindset
too. Can you help us understand investing in
some professional accounting can ultimately save
us some money? You took the words right out of
my mouth, okay? I always tell people that stop
looking at me like a bill, like an expense. I
am not an expense. I am an investment. okay same
thing like school right when i went to school
i didn't look at school like an expense or some
type of student loan i'm gonna get you know because
that's why i chose what i did very carefully
because it's an investment school what is it
going to produce for me long haul same thing
with an accountant and my guarantee is what I
try to do for my clients to live outside of that
scope of a regular account is that I try to justify
my fee where I'm saving you more than our fee
at the end of the year. And usually at the end
of the year, you know, where what I'll do is
at the end of the year when you've been with
me for a year or so, I'll give you a little package
and I'll show you the savings that we provided
you that surmount our fee. and whether i'll give
you a perfect example we just got this client
um probably about six seven months ago uh he's
a physical therapist out in manhattan losing
a lot of money okay and he can't get a grasp
on his financials so he comes to me i'm looking
at his financials right and i break it out year
to year right and i see he opens up the business
he's making he starts out about a million to
two million dollars of revenue he's still losing
money from 2019 to all the way to 2025 or 24
he's at currently eight million dollars in revenue
that's a big jump right you're now you're increasing
your revenue substantially okay and then i look
from 2024 to 2023 i see revenue starts to stay
consistent it starts to stay at the 7 .5 to 8
million dollar range okay but all of a sudden
in 2024 you're losing more money If you're making
the same revenue, why are you losing more money?
Then I start breaking down the bottom line and
I start to see his payroll went up by $500 ,000.
Okay. With his revenue staying the same. His
hand was not on the pulse. You know, and I remember
saying this then, how did your payroll go up
by $500 ,000? And he had no answer for me. And
then when I started diving in deeper, it was
overtime. He's paying out benefits that he can't
afford to pay out. It was just stuff like that.
And because of that, he started making drastic
changes. And now it's been three years since
he's been in the green. He's finally in the green
where he's making a profit. We implemented simple
things too where he's in a business where he
has a lot of employees and talent is not out
there for him. incentivize to get him a wellness
program. I did some research and there's huge
FICA tax savings in implementing wellness programs
for employees, right? The government wants their
employees to stay healthy, to stop using health
insurance and to reduce costs, so they give incentives.
to implement wellness programs, gym membership,
smoking programs, mental counseling. And if you
implement these wellness programs, they give
you significant tax savings where you're saving
close to 76, like say you pay an employee $1
,000, for example, a week. If you implement the
wellness program, you're saving about $76 to
$100 per employee per paycheck. Over a year,
that adds up. You know, so, you know, we've seen
significant savings around. Last customer we
did it for, it was about $26 ,000 to $30 ,000
in a year, you know. Wow. And we saved them in
FICA savings. So here's what I want our listeners
to really get, because I've been skeptical of
accountants and consulting, because it's easy
to think of them, oh, it's another bill. What
I love that you're bringing a spotlight to is
this is an investment into the health of your
company. What I'm hearing is you and your team
have the ability to read the health of a company.
You're able to dive in much like a physician
and kind of diagnose where things are not working
well, where there is ill health. And then you're
able to... coach them and advise them on what
to do and I love that you went out and did that
research for that client in an attempt to elevate
the health of his business and I also love because
how many industries can say this or how many
business could say this my job is to save you
more money and you're investing in me I mean
that's awesome so If this is resonating with
you, if you're a small to medium -sized business
and you're like, man, I want to get some advice
or have a sit down with this guy, what's the
best way for them to reach out and get in touch
with you? Sure, so they could go to precisionaccountingconsulting
.com. You can look us up on Google, Precision
Accounting Consulting in Melville, New York.
There's a few Precision Accounting, so just to
pick the right one, it's in Melville, New York.
You can come to our website and look at our podcast
also, The Profit Principle Podcast. It's on YouTube
and Spotify. And you can reach out on the website.
You'll have our phone number there. And my email
is sgr at precisionaccountingconsulting .com.
And I'm willing to do a free consultation. We
don't charge anybody for that. And just to kind
of see where you're at and if we're a good fit
for you. Sonny, I want to acknowledge you for
elevating the industry, for working and exhibiting
with such integrity. It's refreshing to hear
this. And it really makes me feel good about
like, oh, yeah, there are still people out there
doing good for the good of others. And so thank
you for being on the show. Thank you so much
for having me. And I really liked your questions
and your format. It really challenged me to think
about things in a way that I haven't in a long
time. And giving you the motivation to go out
there and do it even better. Thank you. Right
on. All right. And now it's time for you all
to get out there. Be a source of kindness. Be
a source of contribution. You do have something
to offer this world. And I believe in you. Thank
you for being here today. I'm really happy that
you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking
forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward. This is going to get
more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement
as well. We'll invite people to participate in
the show. And thank you for giving us your time
and attention. Have an excellent time building
out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.