Share with me your first, last name, name of
your business, and where you're located at. Javonca,
so great to be here, and thanks for having me
on your show, and awesome to meet you. So my
name's Alec Crawford. I'm founder and CEO of
Artificial Intelligence Risk, Inc., and I'm calling
in today from Greenwich, Connecticut, which is
right outside New York City, where I was born
and grew up. I love that. Is that where home
is? Yeah, so Greenwich is home. I'm in New York
probably, you know, once a week. My sister still
lives in New York and I'm in there obviously
for business. We focus primarily on integrating
high risk AI safely. So that's banks, insurance
companies, but also health care companies or
anyone anywhere that has kind of really sensitive
data they need to protect. Right. Which is important
with AI. And by the way, never type your social
security number into AI. You know, and before,
as I'll share with everyone, is the fact that
I had questions because you said you were here
in San Antonio and you were doing some things.
Do me a favor and just explain AI risk and the
details in which you explain to me of what you
do. yeah absolutely so what we do is integrate
high -risk ai safely so it starts with the world's
best models like openai and and gemini but private
versions so the data doesn't leak out they can't
train on your data super super important then
we had put a user interface in uh so everybody
can use all those different models safely from
one place right which is cool and then we add
ai agents in there we're like which are like
digital employees that do Different jobs, whether
you're in the call center or the chief financial
officer's office or check your email or whatever,
write emails for you. And then most important,
we wrap it all in what I call AIGRCC or governance
risk, regulatory compliance and cybersecurity
layer to protect all of that and make sure you're
doing everything legally. Because obviously,
if you're a health care company or a bank, you
got lots of rules you got to follow. And then
we help our customers kind of. customize it and
kind of learn to fish. And it's just been such
an amazing journey. How can you do this without
the risk? Everything is a risk, right? But there
has to be a clearly defined level of risk for
something like that. I have to know, where did
the idea come from? Oh, yeah. Such a great question.
So I retired. I was a chief risk officer at Lord
Abbott, mid -side asset manager, retired from
there, ended 22. And of course, my great love
is computer science. I was building neural networks
from scratch at Harvard in 1987 and always loved
computers, but then spent years in finance and
investing and risk management. And it was kind
of like... But like the Reese's Peanut Butter
Cup commercial, like, hey, you got your chocolate
and my peanut butter. No, you got your peanut
butter and my chocolate. I was like, oh, risk
and AI, right? Like manage the risk of AI. So
it just kind of hit me on the head and also seemed
like such a really, really something that the
world really needed, right? Like if we can't
control the risks of AI over the next. 10 years,
I mean, you've seen all these things about, you
know, existential risk to humanity of AI, right?
Like, if we need anything, we need this, you
know, controlling the risks of AI. And with that
said, I love the Reese's commercial you just
did. That was a whole commercial. And I love
it. With that, I mean, it's crazy, because when
AI came for us, it was like maybe about five
years ago, but for you. How long have you been
working with AI? Oh, yeah, since 1987. And, you
know, obviously people are playing around with
ChatGPT and things like that. It's become very
accessible. You know, back then or really before
ChatGPT came out, it was really kind of computer
science, like experts in this, right? And so
a neural network is basically what people call
deep learning today. And it's what allows ChatGPT
to work, right? It's a large language model.
So that's really the precursor. to that. It's
become much more technical and complicated since
I did it with these things called transformers.
And basically the tech has changed for sure,
but the basic concept is the same. Let's figure
out effectively how to mimic the human brain
statistically and have an AI be able to talk
to you. And what I did realize back in the 80s
was, look, we just don't have enough computing
power or memory to make this work. It did okay.
I was basically teaching computers to play poker.
Yes. Yes. Right. And bet and bluff. And they
did a good job. They basically they could almost
beat me. Right. But now poker bots are the best
poker players in the world. They can beat any
human. Right. So so it's it's AI has been a complete
game changer. And we've seen it over time when.
Deep Blue beat the world champion in chess and
then AlphaGo beat the world champion in Go. And
then they started beating poker players and everyone
else. And look, it's the quote is basically software
is eating the world, right? Like that's a pretty
famous quote about software. And now it's AI
is eating the world. And I think that there's
a couple of really important things there. One
is like. you got to get on board with AI. If
you're not using AI today, like you may not have
a job two years from now, unless you're a real
estate agent, which I think you're good. Because
look, there are just some roles which people
are always going to want to talk to a human,
right? Yes. But look, if you're, you know, if
you're processing, you know, forms in a bank
somewhere, like find a new job fast, right? Because
AI can do that. The second part is we've got
to be able to do this safely and securely. And
what people need to realize, whether you're an
individual or work at a bank, is that if you
just go to the web and start using Gemini or
ChatGPT, like all that information is public.
That is not safe. You have to be super careful.
Do not put personal information on there. Do
not put your health conditions on there. Like
that's just not a great idea, right? You've got
to be super, super careful about that. So those
are really the two things to think about. And
that was just that was very interesting. You
said that because a lot of people, most people
are utilizing chat GPT to sort of I used to call
it diagnosing themselves. So to chat knows themselves
like when it comes to medical. But my my aha
moment again, which was you said is that when
we use. chat GPT or Gemini, and someone puts
our name in there, it can literally pull from
the information, vice versa. Am I correct? Like
taking whatever you put in your chat and using
it when somebody searches your name? Yeah, absolutely.
So one of the things that, I'll give an example.
So one of the things that OpenAI does is they
make entire chat conversations available for
research purposes. Now, this is not... If you
have a corporate version or you're using our
version of software where everything's inside
a firewall, of course, they can't do that. Right.
But if you're just on the Internet saying, hi,
my name's Javanka McGee and I have this medical
condition, I have questions about it or I have
symptoms, I have questions about this. That may
be may be released six months later for research
purposes, for people to do research on AI. And
one of the things that the Atlantic magazine
did a few months ago. is they published excerpts
of those because it's publicly available. And
there were people in there. There was there's
a young woman there who was worried about, you
know, her weight, having a conversation with
Chachi Petit. There was a guy thinking about
getting divorced from his wife. These are all
super, super private conversations that were
literally published in The Atlantic magazine.
So it is not safe. You know, to go out there
and do that. You have to be very, very careful
about what you do. And people just start paying
attention to that. Right. And you need to pay
attention to that. I never even thought about
that, Alec. I'm sitting here like, wouldn't the
heck have I asked Chad GPT in the last year?
With all of this said, you're so passionate about
it. And there's one word that I love and I use
it respectfully. But I'm like, oh, he's a computer
nerd. I love it. Remember when the word nerd
used to be such a bad thing? Yeah. Now as a form
of like intelligence, like at a level that's
like beyond I could think of. So Alec Crawford,
you're like this super nerd that I love. Yeah.
Yeah. I've moved away from I was very introverted
as a kid. Like I taught myself the program at
age 13. I got my first computer in 1979. Right.
Like. I was definitely that generation. But look,
as you work in larger institutions, as you know,
because you were at USAA, like you have to become
more outgoing. Yes. Like if you want to if you
want to manage people and get promoted, like
you can't just sit in your cubicle all day and
take numbers to a computer. That ain't going
to work. Right. So I effectively had to transition
from being an introvert to more of an extrovert.
Right. Although certainly at times I could be
at some. Big event where I know no one and go,
ooh, this is a little scary, but you kind of
have to force yourself to interact with people.
So for better or worse, I've become a little
more nerdy in that I'm running an AI company,
but a little less nerdy in that I'm going to
lots of conferences and now have, I was joking
with my co -founder, Joe, who you met, because
when I started the company, I was like, I've
got 10 ,000 public speaking hours as a Wall Street
analyst. Like I've done this like a million times.
I've spoken to. groups of 10 ,000 people and
rooms with three people in them. Right. But tons
of public speaking. And then I looked at him
and go, Oh, it's up to 15 ,000 now. Wow. Thousand
hours of public speaking. Right. Like, like you
cannot be an introvert to do that. Tell me about
your vision in all of this. Yeah. Thank you so
much. Yeah. Look, my vision is for companies
and people to be able to use AI safely and securely,
right? So we talked a lot about that earlier,
where if you do things wrong, you could just
lose your data, right? The other thing is, look,
AI is not that trustworthy right now, right?
You can ask it questions, get the wrong answer,
but it's going to sound really authoritative,
right? And it's also easy to fool AI into things.
Like there was an incident over the last couple
of weeks where people had fooled Grok, one of
the AI systems out there, and kind of that it
was misrepresenting facts, right? So it's super
important to just remember right now with AI,
trust, but verify, right? If you can answer from
there, especially if it's important. Check a
source, ask your friends. I can't tell you how
much stuff someone I know will send me a text
or whatever, like, oh, yeah, I told me this.
I'm like, that's not right. You know, like you
got to go check that. Right. So trust but verify.
So our vision is for the future of AI to be to
be trustworthy and safe and good for everybody.
The other part of my vision. is that aligned
with that is 10 years from now i want everybody
to have an ai co -pilot uh that will help them
do their job better that will take the stuff
out your job you hate like filling out paperwork
whatever a the ai is going to do that right um
what i don't want to see is 15 unemployment because
people's jobs are taken by ai and that's something
i think all of us as a community of citizens
and business leaders And government leaders really
need to think very hard about how do we achieve
my vision of everybody as a copilot instead of
accidentally ending up with 15 % unemployment.
We have to think about that now or it will happen
later. And I'm not by far an expert nor experienced
in all of this, but you just said copilot and
I'm thinking. we have to verify. And if we continue
to keep using it without verification and putting
it out there, I think the verifier would be a
human. So we should not get to the 15 % of unemployment
because there's a thought, and I don't like using
the word should, there's a thought to make sure
that you have somebody clearly define and go
through that. That you're putting out something
that's trustworthy, not even just because of
that, but as a company. That's our goal, right?
As a consumer, I would want to know that what
you're telling me, because that's your expertise,
is right rather than you just going on AI and
sending me the email. You know what I mean? So
I never even thought about that until you said
that. Yeah, totally agree. Well, look, even in
parts of the government, they're trying to have
AI be a judge and check the other AI. That does
not work. Do not do that. Right. You need a human
in the loop on a lot of this stuff. And you also
need a safety valve. Right. So Colorado passed
an AI act. It goes to effect in February. And
one of the things they say is. If you're a bank,
you can have AI grant a loan or deny a loan.
But the consumer then has the ability to go back
to the bank and say, I want a human to check
it. Right. So that's very important. Right. Like
and that should be part of your standard operating
procedure as a financial institution is you've
got to have that safety valve because, you know,
AI is not always going to be right. The other
issue, of course, is you're training AI on data.
And sometimes you have, you know, limited use
cases. Right. So, for example. If I'm a bank
and I've got data and everybody I've granted
loans to and an 87 year old comes and asks for
a loan, like I might not have any data there.
It might simply turn that person down because
it's never seen an 87 year old applicant. Right.
Ever. Is that fair? Absolutely not. That's ageism.
Right. So you've got to be super careful about
these things. And I think that. That's going
to be critical over the next few years is just
making sure that we focus on eliminating bias
and discrimination when AI is being used. Super
important. What's your why? Yeah, I'm really
doing it for everyone else, not for me, right?
Like, so think about all the people out there
that don't understand. When they type in their
medical condition to chat to people on the Internet,
that that's something that can be discovered.
Right. Think about all the companies out there
that ran out there and implemented AI first.
And now they're sitting there going like, oh,
is this safe? Yeah. Like super, super have to
make sure that number one, people are educated
about this. Yes. And number two, we have companies
that are not. just focused on AI use cases, but
focused on AI trust, safety, compliance. So what
I call AI, GRCC, or governance, risk, compliance,
and cybersecurity. I'm going to give you a crazy
statistic. So in the US, about 25, 30 % of all
software spending is on cybersecurity, as well
as governance, risk, and compliance. The rest
is like CRMs and other kind of stuff, right?
Word, all that kind of stuff. In AI, less than
1 % is being spent on trust and safety. Oh, wow.
That is crazy, right? That should be 30%. Think
about how powerful AI is and people are spending
basically no money right now on trust and safety.
That has to change. Yeah. And I don't want to
take up too much of your time, but do you believe
that this has grown so rapidly that no one really
thought about what it was going to be used for
and really just thought maybe it was just for,
you know, just to actually talk to and get some
quick answers? When you started this out in the
80s, did you know that this is where we were
going to go with this government? I mean, banks.
I didn't think so. Yeah, no, we've been thinking
about this for a long time. This guy named Ray
Kurzweil, who has been predicting this for decades,
literally since the 1970s. And so, yeah, I knew
it was going to happen. I didn't know when it
was going to happen, but I knew it was going
to happen. And now I think the big change is
it's progressing so rapidly that what I thought
would take two years has taken six months. Yes.
Right. And so maybe what I thought would take
30 years will take five. And that is what people
call artificial general intelligence. And I think
we're going to have something that looks like
human intelligence within years. And I don't
think it really will be human intelligence. I
think it will kind of fool a lot of people. I
think to truly get. artificial general intelligence,
which, by the way, is different from consciousness,
I think it is going to take longer. It's just
very, very complex. And we will probably have
something, maybe it's within my lifetime, maybe
not. And maybe that involves a combination of
AI and quantum computing that will effectively
be conscious at some point. Because look, humans
are smart. Humans are creative. Once we build...
an ai as smart as a human what's the first thing
we do we say go build something smarter yes yes
right and eventually we get super intelligence
within a relatively brief period of time and
it's going to be a matter of what are the parameters
around that how do we How do we stay safe? Thank
you for being here today. I'm really happy that
you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking
forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward. This is going to get
more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement
as well. We'll invite people to participate in
the show. And thank you for giving us your time
and attention. Have an excellent time building
out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.