Please share with me your first, last name, where
you're located, and the name of your business,
books, or anything else you do. Sure. My name
is Nathalie Doremieux, and I live in the south
of France, and I run a business with my husband.
This is a family business called the Membership
Lab, and we've been in business for 19 years.
What? Congratulations. I love that. So please
do me a favor and elaborate on the business,
the Membership Lab. Yeah, sure. So obviously,
the business has evolved a lot, right, in 19
years. But basically, we created this business
when we moved back to France from the US, because
we met at school. And then after school, we were
like, okay, let's live the American dream. So
let's move to the US and try to find a job there.
And because we were software engineers. It was
pretty easy at the time, you know, 1995. So we
did that state 10 years. And when we got back,
we basically said, well, let's build a business.
You know, we're moving back to France for the
lifestyle. You know, that really was the key.
And what do we know how to do? Software, right?
Because we're software engineers. So we did all
the mistakes. you know that you could possibly
do which like stay within your expertise and
ignore the things that you don't know and that
scare you sales marketing you know all that stuff
we created software that we thought were amazing
that never sold because everybody was telling
us you need to be the first people to sell it
and i was like no way i'm not a salesperson so
learn quickly not quickly enough that at the
beginning you have to wear different hats yes
but then you can strategically think okay this
is not forever this is the next step and then
i have in mind that i want to delegate this later
so it evolved turns out we did not ended up building
software anymore and really we really got into
e -learning with website development because
it was online make more sense we could reach
you know uh the whole world absolutely and then
e -learning because e -learning made felt like
this is something that people monetize so they
are more inclined to spend money you know and
invest in something that is going to make them
money right so and and then we really got hooked
with e -learning and how bad it was i mean to
this day most courses people only come like there
only three to five percent of people that complete
course and That doesn't seem to bother people
that keep selling courses on teachable and think
if you can all that stuff Yeah, they're like
they go for volume. So if you go for volume,
okay But from for us my husband and I was like,
how can we improve the e -learning? So that's
what we've been working on um really working
with people that want to create an experience
inside i really understand that it's when people
get results that they stay that they buy more
from you that you get the testimonial the case
studies that you can use in your marketing so
it all comes back to you right so if you get
your people to be successful that's how you get
you're gonna get to speak successful right i
think it's a sales guarding that is saying um
If you want to be more successful, you have to
help more people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think
that's him. So that's, you know, that's basically
where it's been evolving. And then when AI came,
so for us, that was like four or five years ago.
Now it's like everybody, you have AI coaches
and AI experts everywhere, right? day i would
say four or five years like you had to be a developer
and you had to like dig right and you know and
really trial and errors and and things you know
to really create something so it was really like
development it was not like the the no code that
everybody talks about now and that we've we've
been using ai we've been trying to figure out
how to use ai to accelerate clients I mean, you
can use it for your business and stuff. But our
primary focus was like, how can we use that as
a tool to accelerate, provide better support?
Yeah. On top of what people are already doing.
Yeah. And then the next thing, because, you know,
always keeping in mind that what every business
wants and needs is money, sales. But for that,
they need leads. Yeah. So then how can we use
AI to help people get more leads? And that's
how we came up with our latest product, which
is for podcasters on how you turn a podcast episode
like this. Yes. And then with AI, you create
a customized lead magnet. Yes. To basically take
action on what they are learning. So that's basically
the evolution. Like I gave you like a very quick.
It's OK. And I love that because there was one
thing that you said that I fall victim of is
getting on a program that's on a Web site and
never finishing the program. I honestly don't
know what that's about. You know, and as you
had developed this out of the 19 years. were
you able to see what that was you know the is
it the engagement is it the lack of information
the excitement i'm just very curious yeah so
it's actually a combination of things but it
also has evolved so i don't know if you remember
back in like in 2013 i think is when i bought
like my first course like two three thousand
you'd get the course then you'd get weekly calls
for like six or eight weeks Then you get maybe
a Facebook group if you're lucky. But in the
Facebook group, it's like, oh, you cannot tag
the person because it's going to be overwhelming
for her, right? So she's not approachable. You
cannot ask a question or anything like that.
And after the six weeks, she leaves the Facebook
group and you're done. And most people in this
group have not completed. Some are overwhelmed.
Some are almost there. but most of them are like
even giving up you know when people say well
don't worry you have access for life yes yeah
well it's just collecting dust you know so this
doesn't work anymore yeah the problem with this
is that they would always manage to get 10 20
30 people that made it and that would be their
case studies and they would say oh look this
is working oh like this is the thing like Like,
gosh, like I can't stand that because this is
so hypocrite. Yeah. Look how it's working. This
is how much money I made. A course should not
be the success of a course should not be based
on how much money you made, but how much impact
you had on people. And they are not even tracking
progress. So they don't even know that means
that deep down they don't even care. And they
are about volume. Yeah. So that was the problem.
Now, why people were not getting results? Some
people got tricked into the marketing message.
Unfortunately, our ability to sell and market
has nothing to do with our ability to teach or
coach or mentor, right? We can be great at something,
have an amazing course, and it will never sell
because it's a different strategy. Same goes
for marketing and sales. Good marketing and salespeople
can sell you anything. They can sell you the
dream. Right? And then it doesn't happen or there
is something missing. I think that fundamentally
what is missing in this program is not looking
at what do people really need in order to get
a result. It used to be content, content. You
know, this is my expertise, so I'm going to do
a video, I'm going to share something, and I'm
telling them what to do and that should be enough.
Content is a commodity now. People need support
and accountability. But they also need to be
the right people. That means that if you got
people to join because you gave them like a huge
discount and you said it will never be available
again. And so they join, but they don't really
need it. The pain is not there. They're not going
to be committed. So you need committed people.
yeah yeah yeah the people that cannot put time
in the calendar and self block this time because
i bought this course and i want the outcome so
very often what happens when people don't finish
is either they get overwhelmed the course is
going in at such a pace that they are not allowing
people for like you have to catch the train otherwise
you're left behind and when you're too behind
But typically, the course that is going to have
a week for catch up, really bad idea. Why? Because
you're planting the seed that there is a potential
that they're going to be late at this point.
Right? Oh, I'm going to add a week where we don't
do anything so people can catch up. So people
are not signing up to stuff. And basically, you're
telling them that they're going to be late before
they even start. Right? So I think it's all that
dynamic that has changed. And now people want
support, but they want support right away. They
don't want to have to wait. And that's why AI
is so amazing now, right? They want also accountability.
They want this learning, doing, learning, doing.
They don't want to watch one hour of video. They
want to watch a shorter video, and then you get
them things to do. if they are not able to do
this because they are stuck do you have tools
for them to help them whether it is ai or something
else to get to that next decision that they are
making right yeah so i think it's all of this
yeah yeah and it and it it definitely sounds
very familiar and as i mentioned you know that
was that's things that i experience is the fact
that i either get bored or that support is no
longer there or i have to i have to search for
the support to get the support so what sets you
apart natalie what sets the membership lab apart
from everyone else so i would say what sets us
apart is this idea and people get sometimes they
they get they're surprised but then they understand
and they are relieved and they appreciate that
is that when somebody comes to me with an idea
there are clients where i do say no I'm not going
to build your membership because you're not ready.
And even I had a program at one point where I
was helping people getting their first member
for their membership, their program. And I said,
they start talking about their idea. We don't
talk about tools. You know, I build the tech,
but I never talk about the tools. I'm like, are
we going to talk about the tools? They know we're
not going to talk about the tools now because
the tools is the thing to make it happen. Until
we figure out what the thing is, I'm not going
to overwhelm you with tools you need to buy.
Let's talk about your idea. And what I'm trying
to gauge is how excited are they about this idea
and why they are doing it. And even in my program,
you know, there are like several, I was like,
well, the way you're talking about it, I'm sorry.
Like if I would say to you, like, I'm sorry,
but like, I don't see like. the big excitement
so tell me more why why right and we talk and
we talk until something like service this this
is how you need to feel because if you don't
feel it how do you expect people to feel it yes
yes yes and there are people in that program
that ended up not launching a membership yeah
yeah yeah and they put a program and they didn't
but they still thank me Because they're like,
no, I know I'm not stuck in something and wondering,
why am I procrastinating? Because that's not
what you're supposed to do. That's not your vision.
It's the thing that you feel is the next right
thing. And you're like, well, it sounds hard
because it's putting out of my comfort zone.
But if it's not exciting you at the same time,
then it tells you something, right? So that's
how I go. I go like, tell me about your idea.
Why do you want to do this? OK, you want to do
this because your course doesn't sell because
your coaching program is too expensive. So you
want to do something cheaper. I'm like, those
are not good reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They are not good reasons. A membership is not
easier to sell than a 5K or 10K coaching program.
It's not. Yeah. Right. So what it is that you
really, really want and people don't know what
they want. no no and then when they get what
they think they want then they don't really want
it so i definitely get that so what happens is
that when we get there and i have somebody yep
i know exactly that is the person that is going
to say if something doesn't work she's going
to try another way and they're going to keep
trying and keep she's going to keep trying because
she wants to get there versus when somebody tries
something and the first launch doesn't work or
it doesn't go as planned Well, I'm going to go
and do something else now. Well, then that was
not really a vision, right? You are just trying
the spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks,
right? And that's no way to run a scalable, profitable
business. Tell me about your vision today. Yeah,
sure. So the vision today is, so I'm turning,
gosh, 54 this year. Looking good, looking good.
So I'm turning 54 and my husband is older than
me. So we are thinking retirement, right? So
the vision now is not about creating new things,
you know, like it's about establishing a strong
foundation where we can start to remove ourselves
from the business. And that's why we're going
back to the software, right? Which we is... is
the the idea right that's how we started the
business in the first place i love to say that
i was not born an entrepreneur my husband was
the entrepreneur he wanted to start the business
so i kind of like went with him so we can do
this together and um and so it's nice that we
are going back like full circle and now going
back to software because software is something
where i don't have to show up he doesn't have
to show up it is sellable right it is recurring
income which is something i love somebody as
someone who's not an entrepreneur by but in my
genes you know in my bones i love scalability
so that's why i love the recurring system because
i know exactly how we start our months and things
like that um that that all makes sense now right
so um i think that everything that we went through
It's just leading up to where we are. And you,
when we say you are exactly to be where you're
supposed to be, like even what we are doing kind
of like nails with a domain name that we bought
20 years ago, 19 years ago, just to tell you
how like the full circle, we had a moment. I
think that was this weekend. We were like, wow,
we could use this, you know? So it's that's the
vision we have is creating something that is
scalable. And that, you know, we can keep running
for like 10, 20 years. Thank you for being here
today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to
Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing
your reactions as these episodes continue to
move forward. This is going to get more and more
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We'll invite people to participate in the show.
And thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision
and becoming a vision pro yourself.