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Tell me about your vision. Well, I was trained

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formally as an architect. And after 20 years

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or so, I was noticing all the conflict in that

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business. And we also had an internal struggle

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with one of our partners who was an alcoholic.

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We hired in help to help. my name was Linda,

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helped us through this mess with our partner.

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And I was really attracted to how she did what

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she did. I mean, we were smart architects, but

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we were dumb as far as people. So she helped

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us navigate through that. And I got totally curious

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and also inspired by the work that she did with

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us. And so I started working with her. I did

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some studies. And in a course of four years,

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I changed careers. I studied the ontology of

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language and mediation and other things, changed

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careers at a young 40. And that training and

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that work that I did around language and conversations

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really changed my life. And so now fast forward

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20 years later, I started writing a book because

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I wanted to share all the things that made a

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difference in my life and also all the things

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that made a difference to my client's life. lives

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because I was working with Fortune 200 executives

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for the last 20 years. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you

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for sharing that. I think changing careers, I

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think personally, I don't believe that it's ever

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too late to change careers or do something. I

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think if someone wants to do something in their

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70s, that's equally, if not better, as good as

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someone trying to do something in their 20s.

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Yeah, absolutely. So tell me more about your

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journey from 40 years to now 60 years and also

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writing the book at the same time. Yeah. What's

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that story like? Well, it's actually a bit of

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a longer story because the consulting work and

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the advising and coaching work that I've been

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doing was my third career. My first was music.

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My second was architecture. And my third was

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consulting, advising, coaching. And the theme

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throughout all of that wasn't that I was rejecting

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what I was doing. I love music. I was a successful

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musician early in my life. But I fell in love

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with something else. And so I was willing to

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listen to that attraction. that you know inspiration

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and then be willing to take a gamble and say

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you know what i love what i'm doing but i i really

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want to try this and so it takes a bit of a little

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takes courage to go yeah i don't know what it

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looks like but it's really really feels right

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to me in my mind in my heart um and so i made

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the leap and that's true with using from architecture

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to consulting and advising And in some ways,

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it's also true about my book, where I later on

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after consulting for all these years, I sort

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of had a story in my own head that I couldn't

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write a book, that I needed help. And it took

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me a while to just let go of that story and say,

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you know what, that's my next career of writing.

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And so that each one is like an attraction to

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something new and then taking the courage to

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jump in and just do it. Yeah. Thank you for sharing

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that. Tell me more about the title of the book.

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It's a very intriguing title. How did that come

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about? Well, titles are sort of a dance between

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the writer, the author, and the publisher. And

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so the nature of the book is that fundamentally

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we learn to be in conversation we learn our conversational

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patterns from our family our culture we just

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sort of pick it up and so we're never really

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taught the ABCs of conversations how they work

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why they work and why they fail and so the purpose

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of the book was try to lay down some DNA of how

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conversations work and why they work and how

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we can do them better and so that was That was

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the intent of the book, to try to compile all

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the things I had learned that really changed

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my life and share with other people. So that's

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the intent, yeah. So what do you hope that the

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book achieves? What do you achieve through the

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book? Yeah. Well, for me, I still have consult.

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I mean, I just still do advising and coaching

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with people individually. I have some corporations

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I work with. But basically the book is, I put

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it out in the world to give people a window into,

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give people a new window into conversations.

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Like really, because we often are in conversations

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on automatic pilot. We have our patterns, we

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have our habits. But if you're in a stressful

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situation or a situation where you're uncomfortable,

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then you can step back and go, what's going on

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here? Why am I reacting the way I'm reacting?

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Why are they judging me the way they're judging

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me? And if we can deconstruct a little bit of

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that, then we have a new lens into what the hell

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is happening. So we don't continue repeating

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the same negative patterns or the same responses

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that don't get us anywhere. So it's the way of,

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in a way, I want to... the conscious conversations

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part is let's wake let's wake up in conversations

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rather than being sleep talking we can wake up

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and be more conscious and be more aware of what

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we can do and say and how we can interact in

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new ways. Thank you for being here today. I'm

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really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros

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Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions

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as these episodes continue to move forward. This

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is going to get more and more fun. We'll have

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more and more engagement as well. We'll invite

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people to participate in the show. And thank

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you for giving us your time and attention. Have

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an excellent time building out your vision and

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becoming a vision pro yourself.