WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.980 What defines a great leader? Yeah, first, thanks 00:00:03.980 --> 00:00:06.139 for having me back. We had such a good conversation. 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:09.460 I'm glad we get to continue it. What defines 00:00:09.460 --> 00:00:13.320 a good leader? I love that visual that everyone's 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:16.519 seen, the kind of meme where the leader is behind 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:18.800 with the whip, whipping people to try to motivate 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:21.539 them to move forward versus the leader being 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:24.160 out front with a rope over their shoulder and 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:28.120 pulling and leading the team. And so for me, 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:31.420 I think that sums up my approach to leadership. 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:34.640 Like you have to be out front. You have to be 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:36.939 setting the course. You have to be very clear 00:00:36.939 --> 00:00:39.240 in where you're going with the company, what 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:42.140 metrics matter, what our goal is, what our why 00:00:42.140 --> 00:00:45.299 is. And it has to be no questions about that. 00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:49.179 If there's questions about that, then the team 00:00:49.179 --> 00:00:52.619 can't follow you. And then the second thing I 00:00:52.619 --> 00:00:55.259 would say is we have to create the ownership 00:00:55.259 --> 00:00:58.380 mentality in the company, right? Every role needs 00:00:58.380 --> 00:01:03.079 to have a co -created metric where you're not 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:06.579 only leading by example, but you're co -creating 00:01:06.579 --> 00:01:08.879 the leadership metrics with every one of your 00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:12.239 team members to create that mutual buy -in. Yeah. 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:15.760 Tell me more about that. Why do you think that? 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:20.840 What experiences or what have you gained or what 00:01:20.840 --> 00:01:23.319 have you learned through your journey that you 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:29.280 have these thoughts? Yeah, so I've managed thousands 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:31.500 of employees and probably recruited hundreds. 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:35.620 And what I found is there's this weird approach 00:01:35.620 --> 00:01:38.739 to management, leadership and hiring team members 00:01:38.739 --> 00:01:41.120 where there's like a hierarchy, right? Of like, 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:44.500 I'm the boss and you report to me. And I would 00:01:44.500 --> 00:01:46.599 say that's positional management, positional 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.459 leadership, which we see a lot in low level jobs 00:01:49.459 --> 00:01:52.879 and a lot in corporate America. And we got to 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.000 remember that the people we're hiring, the people 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.719 we're working with, our team, our people, these 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.260 are our human beings that we are vested in because 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:03.340 we're empowering them to grow and do something 00:02:03.340 --> 00:02:06.700 amazing. We're paying them a fair wage so that 00:02:06.700 --> 00:02:08.900 they can support their family. And then they're 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:11.639 giving us time and talent to the company. And 00:02:11.639 --> 00:02:14.439 that's a mutual relationship. That is not a one 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.560 -sided relationship. And so I like to say, hey, 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:19.259 here's where we're going as a company in the 00:02:19.259 --> 00:02:22.300 metrics. and then i love the co -creation process 00:02:22.300 --> 00:02:25.719 because it creates mutual accountability hey 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:28.599 based on your role here's the things that i'm 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:32.259 holding you accountable to right what else do 00:02:32.259 --> 00:02:33.780 you think i should hold you accountable to do 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:35.639 you agree that the things i'm holding you accountable 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.060 to are inside of your role and scope and are 00:02:38.060 --> 00:02:40.360 things that are inside of your job and if they're 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:42.599 not let's either adjust your job description 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:46.900 maybe the pay or let's adjust and have clear 00:02:46.900 --> 00:02:49.509 expectations because When there's misaligned 00:02:49.509 --> 00:02:51.949 expectations, that's where all the conflict comes 00:02:51.949 --> 00:02:54.090 from, right? I don't think I'm getting paid fairly. 00:02:54.270 --> 00:02:55.830 I think I'm doing too much outside of scope. 00:02:56.229 --> 00:02:58.389 And now there's this tension, and I don't want 00:02:58.389 --> 00:03:00.550 that. I want to be a mutual team where you're 00:03:00.550 --> 00:03:03.069 excited to show up and work. You understand what 00:03:03.069 --> 00:03:05.110 I'm going to hold you accountable to, and you 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:06.729 understand what to hold me accountable to, what 00:03:06.729 --> 00:03:09.310 I agree to provide you from a training, mentorship, 00:03:09.590 --> 00:03:13.520 leadership standpoint as well. Yeah. I like that 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:16.759 the focus is on a mutual relationship instead 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:19.580 of one -sided, hey, do this, do this, this is 00:03:19.580 --> 00:03:22.659 what we need from you. So thank you for sharing 00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:28.919 that. Tell me more, though. Why the analogy of 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:32.300 leading from front? I mean, I remember those 00:03:32.300 --> 00:03:34.080 pictures that you're talking about. One of them 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:38.979 is the boss sitting on a weight -carrying machine, 00:03:39.099 --> 00:03:42.060 and then the employees are pulling him. Right. 00:03:42.139 --> 00:03:43.900 And then the other one's a leader where he's 00:03:43.900 --> 00:03:46.159 the one who pulling in with the employees at 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:49.159 the same time. And a lot of times we also see 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.080 a different perspective where employees are sitting 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.759 on and then the leaders pulling everyone together. 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:57.759 Right. And those that's also not a healthy scenario. 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:02.740 That's also not a healthy conflict area. So what 00:04:02.740 --> 00:04:04.699 would you say? What lessons have you learned 00:04:04.699 --> 00:04:08.460 throughout your leadership experiences or maybe 00:04:08.460 --> 00:04:11.979 as an employee or as a recruiter? that you'd 00:04:11.979 --> 00:04:16.579 like to share with the audience? Yeah, so this 00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:19.300 is so fun. This is such a fun topic because I 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:24.100 think a lot of people do mess this up. So one 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:27.379 thing I would say is the open door policy. That's 00:04:27.379 --> 00:04:30.220 like a cliche saying, right? Like we have to 00:04:30.220 --> 00:04:32.180 have open conversation. I like to call it an 00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:35.079 open office policy. So this is something I do 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:37.769 with all my teams. And I think... it's very uncomfortable 00:04:37.769 --> 00:04:40.029 for people at first but i think it has huge results 00:04:40.029 --> 00:04:42.129 so if i have a team member come to me and say 00:04:42.129 --> 00:04:44.449 something about another team member and they 00:04:44.449 --> 00:04:47.430 say hey so -and -so did something doesn't matter 00:04:47.430 --> 00:04:50.529 if it's it's very finite right like they they 00:04:50.529 --> 00:04:52.750 left earlier they did something that they felt 00:04:52.750 --> 00:04:55.170 wasn't equal to what they bring to the table 00:04:55.170 --> 00:04:57.610 or something major right like hey they cussed 00:04:57.610 --> 00:05:00.329 out an employee a client or there was friction 00:05:00.329 --> 00:05:02.790 or they messed up their job The first thing I 00:05:02.790 --> 00:05:04.149 do, I said, that's so great. Thank you for bringing 00:05:04.149 --> 00:05:06.089 it. That's my attention. Why don't you go grab 00:05:06.089 --> 00:05:07.990 them for me and let's meet in the conference 00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:10.689 room. And I bring both parties in the conference 00:05:10.689 --> 00:05:13.769 room and we have a conversation. Hey, Jane, go 00:05:13.769 --> 00:05:15.110 ahead and just tell me what you were saying. 00:05:15.370 --> 00:05:17.670 You know, again, this is a safe place. We're 00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:19.829 not going to yell and scream. Let's just figure 00:05:19.829 --> 00:05:22.649 out what's going on and give them a chance to 00:05:22.649 --> 00:05:23.850 voice. And then I can look at the other party 00:05:23.850 --> 00:05:26.430 and go, Hey, you know, this was brought up. And 00:05:26.430 --> 00:05:28.370 instead of going around everyone's back and playing 00:05:28.370 --> 00:05:30.170 the game of telephone, like what's your perspective? 00:05:30.860 --> 00:05:32.660 Right. Well, because there's always two sides 00:05:32.660 --> 00:05:35.699 to a story. Right. And I want the team to understand 00:05:35.699 --> 00:05:38.160 that. Right. Like you are only seeing it from 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.459 your perspective. Let's make sure we get their 00:05:40.459 --> 00:05:42.639 opinion and then let's have a conversation. Right. 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:44.639 Is there a lesson learned? Is there something 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.339 that we can adjust as a company? Is there a positional 00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:48.899 lesson learned? So is there something we could 00:05:48.899 --> 00:05:51.579 train on from a personality standpoint? And then 00:05:51.579 --> 00:05:53.779 can both parties walk away feeling like they 00:05:53.779 --> 00:05:56.399 were heard, feeling like they were listened to 00:05:56.399 --> 00:06:00.250 and that there's clear action? So that there's 00:06:00.250 --> 00:06:03.069 no friction and no weird tension left. And so 00:06:03.069 --> 00:06:05.370 this open office policy is something I've had 00:06:05.370 --> 00:06:07.329 in all of my companies. And when people go through 00:06:07.329 --> 00:06:08.589 it the first time, they're like, well, wait a 00:06:08.589 --> 00:06:10.550 second. Like, I didn't want to be put on the 00:06:10.550 --> 00:06:13.209 spot. It's like, but why not? Like, if you have 00:06:13.209 --> 00:06:15.509 something to say, let's create the conversation 00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:17.870 and let's streamline it because I don't want 00:06:17.870 --> 00:06:19.410 to waste your time. I don't want to waste their 00:06:19.410 --> 00:06:21.149 time. And I definitely don't need the backdoor 00:06:21.149 --> 00:06:24.209 conversations. And so that's one thing I would 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:27.000 share with people is like. to eliminate all the 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.779 backend noise is just to have these very clear, 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.100 quick conversations. And I find that that leads 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:35.540 teams amazing. The other thing I would say is 00:06:35.540 --> 00:06:37.800 if you're holding people accountable to like 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:39.920 clocking in and clocking out and not the actual 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.339 production metrics of their position, that that's 00:06:43.339 --> 00:06:46.759 such a micromanaging mindset, even in retail. 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:49.399 And I had a retail business. It was never like, 00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:51.899 Oh, you clocked in one minute late. It's like, 00:06:51.899 --> 00:06:54.439 you know, first I got to show up with curiosity. 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:56.759 Like, Hey, I noticed you were a minute late. 00:06:56.899 --> 00:06:58.740 Like, is everything okay? Like, I want to ask 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:01.120 genuinely. And then I want to hold them accountable 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:02.839 to the metrics. Like, well, did you still open 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:05.660 on time? You did. Oh, okay, cool. Like, no worries 00:07:05.660 --> 00:07:07.319 that you clocked in a minute late. You were still 00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:09.560 open on time. Everything was done. Like, I just 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:11.180 want to make sure you understand. Like, I'm aware 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:12.779 of it. I just want to make sure you're okay. 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:19.279 Again, open, clear communication. So the conversation 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.740 about, hey, let's meet in the coffee room and 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:26.040 you can tell me all about it. I have a perspective 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:29.000 on that. I want you to answer that. How many 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:33.319 times has that, if it has, even backfired where 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:36.040 from that point onwards that employee never even 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:39.240 came to say anything? Or has that not happened 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.980 at all? Yeah, it never backfires because I never 00:07:41.980 --> 00:07:44.860 let anyone keep anything under the rug. And I'm 00:07:44.860 --> 00:07:47.600 very transparent about that as a leader. Like, 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.439 hey, we're not here for drama, right? This is 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:51.839 my mission, vision, and values. This is where 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.240 I'm going as a company. this is your role this 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:57.660 is what is expected of you and at no time are 00:07:57.660 --> 00:08:00.420 we going to end up in unnecessary drama because 00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:03.480 that doesn't serve the client and so we are here 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.699 to serve the client or deliver our product which 00:08:05.699 --> 00:08:09.560 serves a client that's our focus right and yes 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:10.939 we're all people there's going to be tension 00:08:10.939 --> 00:08:12.240 there's going to be friction there's going to 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:15.839 be bad days and all of that's acceptable right 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.660 what's not acceptable is us not talking about 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:21.079 it quickly and then anchoring it on real metrics 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:22.620 and that's another thing we could talk about 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:26.339 is a lot of emotion is tied to the perception 00:08:26.339 --> 00:08:28.879 of people doing or not doing not the reality 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:32.500 of the output um and so with these people like 00:08:32.500 --> 00:08:34.460 i said the first time it catches them off guard 00:08:34.460 --> 00:08:36.259 because they're like oh wait a second you did 00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:38.879 tell me about this it was in our onboarding it 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:40.960 was in our interview process you're very aware 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.120 this is how we operate they haven't had this 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:44.679 at other companies because they're used to right 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:47.639 they go tell hr hr sips it through then the other 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:50.480 party gets it and it's clunky no like let's just 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:53.360 grab a conversation and then what i find is a 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:55.500 lot of these conversations happen without me 00:08:55.500 --> 00:08:58.639 the second third fourth fifth and ongoing because 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.000 they can go to the person in a non -confrontational 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.620 way now and say hey like i noticed this happened 00:09:03.620 --> 00:09:06.740 like again with curiosity now instead of the 00:09:06.740 --> 00:09:10.049 the assumption of them messing up going hey i 00:09:10.049 --> 00:09:12.289 saw that happen like do you need support what 00:09:12.289 --> 00:09:14.950 happened can i can i help or give me some insight 00:09:14.950 --> 00:09:16.429 because that seemed like that was not how we 00:09:16.429 --> 00:09:18.570 do it and then they're willing to listen and 00:09:18.570 --> 00:09:21.450 so i actually find it moves your culture totally 00:09:21.450 --> 00:09:24.169 a different direction and again this is a very 00:09:24.169 --> 00:09:27.230 very different approach to managing than i've 00:09:27.230 --> 00:09:30.629 experienced um or seen other companies do yeah 00:09:30.629 --> 00:09:35.169 yeah thank you for sharing that um my next question 00:09:35.169 --> 00:09:43.320 for you I want to make it a good one, actually. 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.039 I want to make it a good one. So let me see if 00:09:45.039 --> 00:10:01.379 I can find a very good one for this case. Okay, 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.700 this is falling up on what we just talked about. 00:10:06.340 --> 00:10:10.100 What tips would you have for leaders in relationship 00:10:10.100 --> 00:10:12.620 to employees? And what tips would you have for 00:10:12.620 --> 00:10:18.100 leaders as an entrepreneur? Yeah, so let's start 00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:23.399 with tips as an entrepreneur. If you're going 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:26.240 to lead a company and be the leader, you've got 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:29.539 to take care of yourself. And I think this is 00:10:29.539 --> 00:10:32.120 so missed in the business world. You cannot show 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:34.399 up as your best self and give your company the 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:36.740 best, let alone your team the best or your clients 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:40.120 the best. If you're not taking care of your sleep, 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:42.559 taking care of your health, taking care of your 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.179 mental wellbeing, have stability. If you're not 00:10:45.179 --> 00:10:48.220 prioritizing your pay, making sure that you're 00:10:48.220 --> 00:10:50.620 taking care of your financial situation, like 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:52.659 you've got to take care of yourself in order 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:55.799 to be an amazing leader. So often you're giving 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:57.679 to everybody else and you forget to take care 00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:59.480 of yourself, which will degrade your ability 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.240 to give to everyone else. And so that's first 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:04.960 is like prioritize yourself and then that'll 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:06.940 give you the power, the energy, everything else 00:11:06.940 --> 00:11:09.340 to give to everyone else. The second, when you're 00:11:09.340 --> 00:11:13.480 dealing with your team, I was on a podcast the 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.440 other day and we talked about the team's journey. 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:19.279 You've got to really think about what is that 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.220 team member's journey in working with your organization, 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:25.000 right? So what's the interview process? What's 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.120 their onboarding process? What does work feel 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.879 like? You've got to see it and visualize it. 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.320 And you have to understand the things that they 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.120 like about it, the things they don't like about 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.600 it, and where you as a company are failing. A 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:39.000 great example of this, I was working with a company 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.539 and I was talking to their sales leader. And 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:44.179 I was there super early. I spent a whole day 00:11:44.179 --> 00:11:45.980 on site and I noticed, you know, she got there 00:11:45.980 --> 00:11:47.879 first, which was fine. That was, she likes the 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:50.659 morning. And then I watched her get the coffee 00:11:50.659 --> 00:11:54.639 container, walk down the hallway. This is an 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:56.259 older lady too. She's like in her seventies, 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.559 walk down the hallway with the water container, 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.580 fill it up at the water fountain, right? Like 00:12:01.580 --> 00:12:04.779 12 doors down in the hallway, walk back, put 00:12:04.779 --> 00:12:07.159 it on so that she could make her morning cup 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:10.809 of coffee. And I was like, how many times a day 00:12:10.809 --> 00:12:12.750 are you doing this? She's like, well, I do it 00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:14.429 then. And then I typically have to do it one 00:12:14.429 --> 00:12:16.230 more time around lunchtime. And then if I want 00:12:16.230 --> 00:12:17.730 to get water, I got to walk down the hallway 00:12:17.730 --> 00:12:20.769 to get water. And I'm like, that's so inefficient. 00:12:21.169 --> 00:12:22.889 Like, well, what about snacks? Like, are there 00:12:22.889 --> 00:12:24.750 any snacks in the office? And she's like, well, 00:12:24.809 --> 00:12:27.110 not really. Like there's no budget for that. 00:12:27.250 --> 00:12:29.590 And so like, there's like, I get busy and it's 00:12:29.590 --> 00:12:31.070 lacking. So I went to the owner and I'm like, 00:12:31.110 --> 00:12:34.230 let's get a water company in here to either direct 00:12:34.230 --> 00:12:37.330 line water in so that We're saving time and this 00:12:37.330 --> 00:12:39.570 old lady's not walking down the hallway and let's 00:12:39.570 --> 00:12:42.090 create a quick snack budget, pull the team so 00:12:42.090 --> 00:12:43.570 we can see what kind of snacks are good to have 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:45.990 on hand. So your team is full of energy in case 00:12:45.990 --> 00:12:47.730 they miss lunchtime or miss a break. They still 00:12:47.730 --> 00:12:50.289 have something to eat and it's a very low investment. 00:12:50.389 --> 00:12:52.750 But again, it was looking at that team journey 00:12:52.750 --> 00:12:54.929 going like, man, here's a sticking point. Let's 00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:57.169 solve that. Like this should not be something 00:12:57.169 --> 00:12:59.789 that's taking time and energy away from my team. 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:02.389 Let's invest the time and money to support them. 00:13:02.669 --> 00:13:04.370 And so that's what I mean. Like, look at your 00:13:04.370 --> 00:13:07.120 team's journey. and make sure you have clarity 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.970 into what's working what's not working and All 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:11.710 the noise, right? That goes back to our early 00:13:11.710 --> 00:13:13.710 thing. Like if you're hearing noise, you need 00:13:13.710 --> 00:13:15.509 to hear it and then address it. Thank you for 00:13:15.509 --> 00:13:17.529 being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned 00:13:17.529 --> 00:13:19.809 in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to 00:13:19.809 --> 00:13:23.090 seeing your reactions as these episodes continue 00:13:23.090 --> 00:13:24.870 to move forward. This is going to get more and 00:13:24.870 --> 00:13:26.929 more fun. We'll have more and more engagement 00:13:26.929 --> 00:13:28.990 as well. We'll invite people to participate in 00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:31.169 the show. And thank you for giving us your time 00:13:31.169 --> 00:13:33.450 and attention. Have an excellent time building 00:13:33.450 --> 00:13:35.809 out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.