What defines a great leader? Yeah, first, thanks
for having me back. We had such a good conversation.
I'm glad we get to continue it. What defines
a good leader? I love that visual that everyone's
seen, the kind of meme where the leader is behind
with the whip, whipping people to try to motivate
them to move forward versus the leader being
out front with a rope over their shoulder and
pulling and leading the team. And so for me,
I think that sums up my approach to leadership.
Like you have to be out front. You have to be
setting the course. You have to be very clear
in where you're going with the company, what
metrics matter, what our goal is, what our why
is. And it has to be no questions about that.
If there's questions about that, then the team
can't follow you. And then the second thing I
would say is we have to create the ownership
mentality in the company, right? Every role needs
to have a co -created metric where you're not
only leading by example, but you're co -creating
the leadership metrics with every one of your
team members to create that mutual buy -in. Yeah.
Tell me more about that. Why do you think that?
What experiences or what have you gained or what
have you learned through your journey that you
have these thoughts? Yeah, so I've managed thousands
of employees and probably recruited hundreds.
And what I found is there's this weird approach
to management, leadership and hiring team members
where there's like a hierarchy, right? Of like,
I'm the boss and you report to me. And I would
say that's positional management, positional
leadership, which we see a lot in low level jobs
and a lot in corporate America. And we got to
remember that the people we're hiring, the people
we're working with, our team, our people, these
are our human beings that we are vested in because
we're empowering them to grow and do something
amazing. We're paying them a fair wage so that
they can support their family. And then they're
giving us time and talent to the company. And
that's a mutual relationship. That is not a one
-sided relationship. And so I like to say, hey,
here's where we're going as a company in the
metrics. and then i love the co -creation process
because it creates mutual accountability hey
based on your role here's the things that i'm
holding you accountable to right what else do
you think i should hold you accountable to do
you agree that the things i'm holding you accountable
to are inside of your role and scope and are
things that are inside of your job and if they're
not let's either adjust your job description
maybe the pay or let's adjust and have clear
expectations because When there's misaligned
expectations, that's where all the conflict comes
from, right? I don't think I'm getting paid fairly.
I think I'm doing too much outside of scope.
And now there's this tension, and I don't want
that. I want to be a mutual team where you're
excited to show up and work. You understand what
I'm going to hold you accountable to, and you
understand what to hold me accountable to, what
I agree to provide you from a training, mentorship,
leadership standpoint as well. Yeah. I like that
the focus is on a mutual relationship instead
of one -sided, hey, do this, do this, this is
what we need from you. So thank you for sharing
that. Tell me more, though. Why the analogy of
leading from front? I mean, I remember those
pictures that you're talking about. One of them
is the boss sitting on a weight -carrying machine,
and then the employees are pulling him. Right.
And then the other one's a leader where he's
the one who pulling in with the employees at
the same time. And a lot of times we also see
a different perspective where employees are sitting
on and then the leaders pulling everyone together.
Right. And those that's also not a healthy scenario.
That's also not a healthy conflict area. So what
would you say? What lessons have you learned
throughout your leadership experiences or maybe
as an employee or as a recruiter? that you'd
like to share with the audience? Yeah, so this
is so fun. This is such a fun topic because I
think a lot of people do mess this up. So one
thing I would say is the open door policy. That's
like a cliche saying, right? Like we have to
have open conversation. I like to call it an
open office policy. So this is something I do
with all my teams. And I think... it's very uncomfortable
for people at first but i think it has huge results
so if i have a team member come to me and say
something about another team member and they
say hey so -and -so did something doesn't matter
if it's it's very finite right like they they
left earlier they did something that they felt
wasn't equal to what they bring to the table
or something major right like hey they cussed
out an employee a client or there was friction
or they messed up their job The first thing I
do, I said, that's so great. Thank you for bringing
it. That's my attention. Why don't you go grab
them for me and let's meet in the conference
room. And I bring both parties in the conference
room and we have a conversation. Hey, Jane, go
ahead and just tell me what you were saying.
You know, again, this is a safe place. We're
not going to yell and scream. Let's just figure
out what's going on and give them a chance to
voice. And then I can look at the other party
and go, Hey, you know, this was brought up. And
instead of going around everyone's back and playing
the game of telephone, like what's your perspective?
Right. Well, because there's always two sides
to a story. Right. And I want the team to understand
that. Right. Like you are only seeing it from
your perspective. Let's make sure we get their
opinion and then let's have a conversation. Right.
Is there a lesson learned? Is there something
that we can adjust as a company? Is there a positional
lesson learned? So is there something we could
train on from a personality standpoint? And then
can both parties walk away feeling like they
were heard, feeling like they were listened to
and that there's clear action? So that there's
no friction and no weird tension left. And so
this open office policy is something I've had
in all of my companies. And when people go through
it the first time, they're like, well, wait a
second. Like, I didn't want to be put on the
spot. It's like, but why not? Like, if you have
something to say, let's create the conversation
and let's streamline it because I don't want
to waste your time. I don't want to waste their
time. And I definitely don't need the backdoor
conversations. And so that's one thing I would
share with people is like. to eliminate all the
backend noise is just to have these very clear,
quick conversations. And I find that that leads
teams amazing. The other thing I would say is
if you're holding people accountable to like
clocking in and clocking out and not the actual
production metrics of their position, that that's
such a micromanaging mindset, even in retail.
And I had a retail business. It was never like,
Oh, you clocked in one minute late. It's like,
you know, first I got to show up with curiosity.
Like, Hey, I noticed you were a minute late.
Like, is everything okay? Like, I want to ask
genuinely. And then I want to hold them accountable
to the metrics. Like, well, did you still open
on time? You did. Oh, okay, cool. Like, no worries
that you clocked in a minute late. You were still
open on time. Everything was done. Like, I just
want to make sure you understand. Like, I'm aware
of it. I just want to make sure you're okay.
Again, open, clear communication. So the conversation
about, hey, let's meet in the coffee room and
you can tell me all about it. I have a perspective
on that. I want you to answer that. How many
times has that, if it has, even backfired where
from that point onwards that employee never even
came to say anything? Or has that not happened
at all? Yeah, it never backfires because I never
let anyone keep anything under the rug. And I'm
very transparent about that as a leader. Like,
hey, we're not here for drama, right? This is
my mission, vision, and values. This is where
I'm going as a company. this is your role this
is what is expected of you and at no time are
we going to end up in unnecessary drama because
that doesn't serve the client and so we are here
to serve the client or deliver our product which
serves a client that's our focus right and yes
we're all people there's going to be tension
there's going to be friction there's going to
be bad days and all of that's acceptable right
what's not acceptable is us not talking about
it quickly and then anchoring it on real metrics
and that's another thing we could talk about
is a lot of emotion is tied to the perception
of people doing or not doing not the reality
of the output um and so with these people like
i said the first time it catches them off guard
because they're like oh wait a second you did
tell me about this it was in our onboarding it
was in our interview process you're very aware
this is how we operate they haven't had this
at other companies because they're used to right
they go tell hr hr sips it through then the other
party gets it and it's clunky no like let's just
grab a conversation and then what i find is a
lot of these conversations happen without me
the second third fourth fifth and ongoing because
they can go to the person in a non -confrontational
way now and say hey like i noticed this happened
like again with curiosity now instead of the
the assumption of them messing up going hey i
saw that happen like do you need support what
happened can i can i help or give me some insight
because that seemed like that was not how we
do it and then they're willing to listen and
so i actually find it moves your culture totally
a different direction and again this is a very
very different approach to managing than i've
experienced um or seen other companies do yeah
yeah thank you for sharing that um my next question
for you I want to make it a good one, actually.
I want to make it a good one. So let me see if
I can find a very good one for this case. Okay,
this is falling up on what we just talked about.
What tips would you have for leaders in relationship
to employees? And what tips would you have for
leaders as an entrepreneur? Yeah, so let's start
with tips as an entrepreneur. If you're going
to lead a company and be the leader, you've got
to take care of yourself. And I think this is
so missed in the business world. You cannot show
up as your best self and give your company the
best, let alone your team the best or your clients
the best. If you're not taking care of your sleep,
taking care of your health, taking care of your
mental wellbeing, have stability. If you're not
prioritizing your pay, making sure that you're
taking care of your financial situation, like
you've got to take care of yourself in order
to be an amazing leader. So often you're giving
to everybody else and you forget to take care
of yourself, which will degrade your ability
to give to everyone else. And so that's first
is like prioritize yourself and then that'll
give you the power, the energy, everything else
to give to everyone else. The second, when you're
dealing with your team, I was on a podcast the
other day and we talked about the team's journey.
You've got to really think about what is that
team member's journey in working with your organization,
right? So what's the interview process? What's
their onboarding process? What does work feel
like? You've got to see it and visualize it.
And you have to understand the things that they
like about it, the things they don't like about
it, and where you as a company are failing. A
great example of this, I was working with a company
and I was talking to their sales leader. And
I was there super early. I spent a whole day
on site and I noticed, you know, she got there
first, which was fine. That was, she likes the
morning. And then I watched her get the coffee
container, walk down the hallway. This is an
older lady too. She's like in her seventies,
walk down the hallway with the water container,
fill it up at the water fountain, right? Like
12 doors down in the hallway, walk back, put
it on so that she could make her morning cup
of coffee. And I was like, how many times a day
are you doing this? She's like, well, I do it
then. And then I typically have to do it one
more time around lunchtime. And then if I want
to get water, I got to walk down the hallway
to get water. And I'm like, that's so inefficient.
Like, well, what about snacks? Like, are there
any snacks in the office? And she's like, well,
not really. Like there's no budget for that.
And so like, there's like, I get busy and it's
lacking. So I went to the owner and I'm like,
let's get a water company in here to either direct
line water in so that We're saving time and this
old lady's not walking down the hallway and let's
create a quick snack budget, pull the team so
we can see what kind of snacks are good to have
on hand. So your team is full of energy in case
they miss lunchtime or miss a break. They still
have something to eat and it's a very low investment.
But again, it was looking at that team journey
going like, man, here's a sticking point. Let's
solve that. Like this should not be something
that's taking time and energy away from my team.
Let's invest the time and money to support them.
And so that's what I mean. Like, look at your
team's journey. and make sure you have clarity
into what's working what's not working and All
the noise, right? That goes back to our early
thing. Like if you're hearing noise, you need
to hear it and then address it. Thank you for
being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned
in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to
seeing your reactions as these episodes continue
to move forward. This is going to get more and
more fun. We'll have more and more engagement
as well. We'll invite people to participate in
the show. And thank you for giving us your time
and attention. Have an excellent time building
out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.