WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.940 john tell me about your vision well i my vision 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:09.619 really is i've been a sort of small business 00:00:09.619 --> 00:00:13.839 specialist for going on 25 years and one of the 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:15.779 things that i always find is business owners 00:00:15.779 --> 00:00:20.780 tend to be struggle with sales and marketing 00:00:20.780 --> 00:00:23.300 you know they're good at what they're good at 00:00:23.300 --> 00:00:27.339 experts in many cases but sales and marketing 00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:31.440 is quite often a You know, it's a black art. 00:00:31.780 --> 00:00:34.280 You know, it's not something that a lot of people 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.380 really understand. They tend to approach it from 00:00:36.380 --> 00:00:40.640 a tactical perspective. I ask, you know, if I 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:42.399 asked people what they think marketing is, they 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.159 almost invariably get, oh, it's advertising, 00:00:45.380 --> 00:00:48.399 it's websites, it's social media, some sort of 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.780 tactic as opposed to, you know, the means by 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:54.359 which they grow their business or develop relationships 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:58.259 or generate or drive earnings growth. and so 00:00:58.259 --> 00:01:00.299 the vision that i have for my business has always 00:01:00.299 --> 00:01:04.200 been to be the partner to be a partner for entrepreneurs 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:08.239 that they typically can't afford to hire right 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:10.180 so if you know a lot of small businesses really 00:01:10.180 --> 00:01:14.159 can't afford to be to to bring on a senior fraction 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.799 you know a cmo or mark vp marketing or something 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:21.939 like that or vp sales and so they They end up 00:01:21.939 --> 00:01:23.980 hiring a lot of junior folks. And so the vision 00:01:23.980 --> 00:01:28.040 really is to show up as a partner in the business 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.140 who's responsible for sales and marketing to 00:01:30.140 --> 00:01:32.379 really help them understand what it really is 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:35.280 and to take greater ownership over the process 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:37.120 and not just sort of abdicate the responsibility 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:39.760 to somebody else and not fully understand it. 00:01:41.379 --> 00:01:46.780 Tell me more about that. From your perspective, 00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:50.219 what need did you see in the market? that you 00:01:50.219 --> 00:01:51.920 wanted to fulfill the role specifically with 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.219 small business owners? Well, I'll start with 00:01:55.219 --> 00:01:58.459 my own story. When I first started my first business 00:01:58.459 --> 00:02:03.060 back in the 90s, I started out as an analyst. 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.620 I was a data analyst and I was responsible for 00:02:05.620 --> 00:02:08.580 looking at, you know, doing post pre -marketing 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:12.060 research to set up campaigns and then doing the 00:02:12.060 --> 00:02:14.939 post -campaign analysis after the fact. And I 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:18.199 quite often found that the campaigns were working 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:21.039 really poorly. right they they were beautiful 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:23.099 and they were you know they looked great but 00:02:23.099 --> 00:02:27.080 the results were often not not really strong 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:31.620 and so when i started my business i as a data 00:02:31.620 --> 00:02:34.139 analyst was good with numbers but i didn't have 00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:36.400 the experience of growing a business and so i 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.759 sought and because of my fear around all the 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:41.139 failure that i'd seen i was really eager not 00:02:41.139 --> 00:02:45.009 to repeat that So I was very proactive in seeking 00:02:45.009 --> 00:02:48.270 help. I talked to 17 different agencies. I talked 00:02:48.270 --> 00:02:50.509 to business coaches, marketing coaches, sales 00:02:50.509 --> 00:02:54.050 trainers, you name it. I was voraciously reaching 00:02:54.050 --> 00:02:57.449 out for help. And unfortunately, what I got was 00:02:57.449 --> 00:02:59.590 a bunch of people trying to sell me tactics. 00:03:00.469 --> 00:03:04.430 And I really struggled to find anyone who was 00:03:04.430 --> 00:03:08.150 interested in helping me, to really showing me 00:03:08.150 --> 00:03:10.789 the ropes, guiding me through the process. and 00:03:10.789 --> 00:03:13.830 facilitating my journey in terms of learning 00:03:13.830 --> 00:03:17.370 how to go about sales and marketing i got sold 00:03:17.370 --> 00:03:20.849 on just about everything you can imagine and 00:03:20.849 --> 00:03:23.509 but i didn't want to be sold i wanted coaching 00:03:23.509 --> 00:03:26.310 i wanted guidance and direction and and help 00:03:26.310 --> 00:03:28.590 right but i wasn't just going to get sold and 00:03:28.590 --> 00:03:34.590 so i see that same pattern all the time you know 00:03:34.590 --> 00:03:37.370 most of the time in my business i'm usually the 00:03:37.370 --> 00:03:40.909 third or fourth agency or provider that people 00:03:40.909 --> 00:03:44.030 call and by the time they get around to me they're 00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:46.210 usually spent all their money they're frustrated 00:03:46.210 --> 00:03:48.870 they have got this sort of string of tactics 00:03:48.870 --> 00:03:50.490 that they're they're doing they're doing what 00:03:50.490 --> 00:03:52.169 there's like look i'm doing everything everybody's 00:03:52.169 --> 00:03:54.430 telling me to do right i've spent a ton of money 00:03:54.430 --> 00:03:57.449 on all these various things but none of the but 00:03:57.449 --> 00:03:59.650 but they're all disjointed there's no overall 00:03:59.650 --> 00:04:03.250 plan there's no program and i don't really know 00:04:03.250 --> 00:04:05.090 why i'm doing it i don't know how to measure 00:04:05.090 --> 00:04:09.080 it And so I just see this general pattern of 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:11.120 people getting busy doing what I call random 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:16.040 acts of marketing. And so the real goal is to 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:18.180 try to help people see beyond the tactics and 00:04:18.180 --> 00:04:22.439 go, look, there needs to be a purpose. And to 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:24.720 understand what the goals are before you start 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:27.899 things, not after the fact. And then how do all 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:30.240 these elements fit together into a program that 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:33.279 drives growth and generates relationships and 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:37.069 drives earnings? And it's just that the conversations 00:04:37.069 --> 00:04:39.329 don't tend to go together. It's just tactic, 00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:42.470 tactic, tactic. And it's exhausting for people. 00:04:42.529 --> 00:04:45.610 They spend all their money and they really need 00:04:45.610 --> 00:04:48.970 people to show up who can help them. As in the 00:04:48.970 --> 00:04:50.810 business, help them grow their business, not 00:04:50.810 --> 00:04:54.990 just how to execute tactics. You're right. I 00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:57.209 think there's a lot of nuances to this, though. 00:04:57.610 --> 00:05:00.810 I think one of the nuances is the entrepreneur 00:05:00.810 --> 00:05:04.740 also needs to take accountability. full accountability 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:10.399 of his business not working so if if the if the 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:12.620 marketing is not working why is the marketing 00:05:12.620 --> 00:05:15.879 not working what do i need to fix change adapt 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:20.819 or add remove from my processes that that the 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:23.639 marketing would be more effective because seo 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.660 works for everyone else facebook marketing works 00:05:26.660 --> 00:05:28.740 for everyone else it works for everyone else 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:31.540 so why is it specifically not working for me 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:35.860 And I think that's where the entrepreneurs either 00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:40.980 are unaware, too naive, or they don't want to 00:05:40.980 --> 00:05:42.560 find out. They don't want to take accountability 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.240 of what they're putting in their businesses. 00:05:45.819 --> 00:05:49.079 Well, I think accountability is one thing, but 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:52.360 ignorance is another, right? Yes. I don't think 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:55.060 that Facebook by itself, any of the tactics don't 00:05:55.060 --> 00:05:57.639 really work by themselves, right? It's not the 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:00.560 tactic that works. It's how you execute the tactic 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:04.120 in. in alignment with the customer's needs right 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:06.860 yeah like one of the things that i see is you 00:06:06.860 --> 00:06:09.220 know people really are knowledgeable about their 00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:12.160 product and their service they they know about 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:14.480 the problem they solve but they tend to approach 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.079 it from their own perspective right they they 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:19.079 describe the product or they describe the service 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:20.920 and they're not really connecting the dots that 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:23.779 this is all about serving customers right this 00:06:23.779 --> 00:06:26.259 is about facilitating a customer's purchase process 00:06:26.259 --> 00:06:28.980 and their journey through getting their you know 00:06:28.980 --> 00:06:31.529 reaching their goal or their solving their problem 00:06:31.529 --> 00:06:34.410 and so there's this inherent mismatch between 00:06:34.410 --> 00:06:36.750 you know sort of brand this whole concept of 00:06:36.750 --> 00:06:39.850 brand marketing or product marketing versus consumer 00:06:39.850 --> 00:06:42.009 customer -centric marketing where you're facilitating 00:06:42.009 --> 00:06:44.990 the client you know and i think anybody who gets 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:48.089 that will find their you know or who's aware 00:06:48.089 --> 00:06:51.329 of the the sales process right or the customer 00:06:51.329 --> 00:06:55.649 account development process right and and it's 00:06:55.649 --> 00:06:57.949 a lot it's a big topic there's it's so complicated 00:06:57.949 --> 00:07:01.199 so many different facets it's not realistic for 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:03.519 to expect an entrepreneur to know all of that 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.600 right so i think there's this duality where they 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:09.860 have to be able to communicate their needs effectively 00:07:09.860 --> 00:07:12.680 and then to expect their providers to be able 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:15.879 to say oh well if those are your needs then here's 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:17.959 how you can we can help you achieve those needs 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:21.139 as opposed to just hey you should do a facebook 00:07:21.139 --> 00:07:24.540 campaign or seo or some other you know tactic 00:07:24.540 --> 00:07:27.720 of the day yeah and i think you're right on that 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:32.069 um I want to add another step to it. So I completely 00:07:32.069 --> 00:07:34.810 agree with the experience that a customer needs 00:07:34.810 --> 00:07:36.870 to face, and that's what the focus should be 00:07:36.870 --> 00:07:39.870 for any business, per se, who are looking to 00:07:39.870 --> 00:07:44.490 grow. I had Philippe Bousseau on the show recently, 00:07:44.670 --> 00:07:50.310 and he used to work with Apple and Steve Jobs 00:07:50.310 --> 00:07:54.709 on those early days. And he shared me a lesson 00:07:54.709 --> 00:07:59.529 that he learned from Steve. He said, We, all 00:07:59.529 --> 00:08:01.829 of us in the world, are in the business of selling 00:08:01.829 --> 00:08:06.970 smiles. And if that's the focus, right, that's 00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:10.610 what should be. Your KPIs and returns are not 00:08:10.610 --> 00:08:13.029 as important as the experience the customer has 00:08:13.029 --> 00:08:16.209 when purchasing a product or service. And I think 00:08:16.209 --> 00:08:18.629 I couldn't agree more with him. And most businesses 00:08:18.629 --> 00:08:21.110 are not aware of that, at least the small businesses. 00:08:21.129 --> 00:08:24.870 They're so focused on surviving the market, let 00:08:24.870 --> 00:08:27.699 alone growing with the market. And that's where 00:08:27.699 --> 00:08:31.879 the detriment comes in. And I will still push 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:34.779 on the point where I don't think most entrepreneurs 00:08:34.779 --> 00:08:37.980 are taking responsibility of what they are responsible 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:41.500 for. And if they are not, and you are very right, 00:08:41.620 --> 00:08:44.940 we can't expect an entrepreneur to know everything. 00:08:45.059 --> 00:08:48.019 That's true. But we can't expect them to agree 00:08:48.019 --> 00:08:50.679 that I don't know all this and I need help to 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.179 find out. And that's where the disconnect happens 00:08:53.179 --> 00:08:56.759 with most entrepreneurs. They are too proud or 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.340 too ignorant to see their inability to scale 00:09:00.340 --> 00:09:02.860 their businesses themselves. And that's where 00:09:02.860 --> 00:09:06.919 they're at. Go ahead. Yeah. I mean, what I hear 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:12.240 is, well, I told these people I don't have time 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.139 and I don't really understand. And so I've delegated 00:09:15.139 --> 00:09:18.679 to so -and -so in order to handle this. But the 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:20.899 person they've delegated it to is a tactician 00:09:20.899 --> 00:09:24.970 who knows, you know, maybe they're a... Yesterday, 00:09:25.269 --> 00:09:27.710 I was talking to a woman who said, well, I delegated 00:09:27.710 --> 00:09:30.110 this whole marketing thing to my social media 00:09:30.110 --> 00:09:33.230 consultant. And I'm like, well, there's your 00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:34.830 problem right there. They're probably a fantastic 00:09:34.830 --> 00:09:36.649 social media consultant, but they're going to 00:09:36.649 --> 00:09:38.850 help you implement your social media, not to 00:09:38.850 --> 00:09:41.929 run your business, right? Not to set up a marketing 00:09:41.929 --> 00:09:45.850 or sales program. And she stopped her in her 00:09:45.850 --> 00:09:47.730 tracks. And she was like, geez, you're right. 00:09:47.789 --> 00:09:49.929 I never thought of that. I just sort of, I don't 00:09:49.929 --> 00:09:52.429 understand marketing. I assume that person was 00:09:52.429 --> 00:09:55.639 a marketer, not a tactician. You know, not a 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:57.700 specialist in a particular tactic. And I don't 00:09:57.700 --> 00:09:59.360 think they really understand because they don't 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:02.519 understand the topic. They assume marketing is 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:07.879 the tactic. Right. And it's sort of abstracting 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.620 it back to, you know, the business consulting 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:13.379 that is what it really is. Right. It's the whole 00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:16.460 front end of the business. Even more than that, 00:10:16.460 --> 00:10:18.620 even. Right. It's just the whole shepherding 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:21.860 of the customer's experience. And, you know, 00:10:21.860 --> 00:10:25.600 which touches just about everything. Yep, exactly. 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.139 Not just the act of it, but doing it in such 00:10:29.139 --> 00:10:31.340 a way that it generates the result for the client 00:10:31.340 --> 00:10:35.679 as well as for the business. Yeah, exactly. So 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:41.879 how do you help those people? How do you help 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:45.659 people who are not aware of those things? Well, 00:10:45.659 --> 00:10:52.710 over the years, I've learned that... A couple 00:10:52.710 --> 00:10:54.570 of different things, I guess. I've put a lot 00:10:54.570 --> 00:10:58.029 of effort into writing blog posts, into writing 00:10:58.029 --> 00:11:02.570 free e -books. I recently wrote a book called 00:11:02.570 --> 00:11:08.990 Being Profitable, which sort of tries to reframe 00:11:08.990 --> 00:11:12.830 marketing as a system. And so quite often, that's 00:11:12.830 --> 00:11:15.309 the starting point is I try to say, look, marketing 00:11:15.309 --> 00:11:18.240 is not what you think it is. It's not this tactical 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.179 execution. I mean, tactics are important and 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:23.340 it ultimately translates into tactics. But putting 00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:27.200 them in context of a system and saying the ultimate 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:31.620 goal are these things. And all of these activities 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:33.460 that we're going to engage in have a logical 00:11:33.460 --> 00:11:37.820 rollout. There's a natural progression of things 00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:40.299 to do in an order. And I always sort of joke 00:11:40.299 --> 00:11:43.679 that most people start with advertising. And 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:45.080 they wonder why it doesn't work. And it's like, 00:11:45.139 --> 00:11:46.980 well, in my program that I put together, there's 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:52.580 20 steps. And advertising is step 20. And they've 00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:56.019 done none of the preliminary steps in order to 00:11:56.019 --> 00:11:57.940 prepare for the advertising to be successful. 00:11:58.279 --> 00:11:59.919 And they wonder why it doesn't work. And there's 00:11:59.919 --> 00:12:01.820 nothing wrong with advertising as long as you 00:12:01.820 --> 00:12:04.440 do it well and you've laid the foundation for 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:07.519 it to be able to generate sales. Correct. Right? 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:10.379 But you can't just assume that the tactic is 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:14.879 going to... is the whole solution right so helping 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:18.059 people see it as a system and as a natural order 00:12:18.059 --> 00:12:22.460 of operations is a first step it's sort of reframe 00:12:22.460 --> 00:12:25.580 it as something that they understand and then 00:12:25.580 --> 00:12:28.620 once they see it as a system and they understand 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:31.559 that there's an order of operations then the 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:36.039 my philosophy is is that you enable them to be 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.700 effective not just not and the point i'm trying 00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:41.090 to say is It's not about them learning how to 00:12:41.090 --> 00:12:44.710 do all the 20 steps. It's learning about what 00:12:44.710 --> 00:12:47.830 questions to ask, how to engage a vendor to help 00:12:47.830 --> 00:12:51.950 that, to make sure the vendor understands what 00:12:51.950 --> 00:12:55.309 you're trying to accomplish so that the vendor 00:12:55.309 --> 00:12:56.889 can either say, well, that's not me, that's not 00:12:56.889 --> 00:13:00.629 what I do, or they can, right? They can say, 00:13:00.669 --> 00:13:02.289 okay, well, I can help you get those fundamentals 00:13:02.289 --> 00:13:04.990 set up. And I can help, you know, and then you 00:13:04.990 --> 00:13:08.490 take part of your accountability or responsibility 00:13:08.490 --> 00:13:11.230 is not to become an expert, but to understand 00:13:11.230 --> 00:13:13.169 the process and understand your requirements 00:13:13.169 --> 00:13:14.870 and to be able to communicate those requirements 00:13:14.870 --> 00:13:19.470 to people who have the ability and who know they 00:13:19.470 --> 00:13:22.789 are being asked to take on that role. Yeah. Right. 00:13:22.870 --> 00:13:25.669 And so that's the fundamental way that I try 00:13:25.669 --> 00:13:27.909 to help people is to sort of reframe the whole 00:13:27.909 --> 00:13:30.149 thing, to give them structure and process and 00:13:30.149 --> 00:13:32.740 to empower them to ask better questions. Thank 00:13:32.740 --> 00:13:34.700 you for being here today. I'm really happy that 00:13:34.700 --> 00:13:36.740 you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking 00:13:36.740 --> 00:13:39.980 forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes 00:13:39.980 --> 00:13:41.779 continue to move forward. This is going to get 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:44.379 more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement 00:13:44.379 --> 00:13:46.500 as well. We'll invite people to participate in 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:48.659 the show and thank you for giving us your time 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:50.960 and attention. Have an excellent time building 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:53.299 out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.