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What defines a great leader?

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That's a really great question.

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And when I think about a leader, right,

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it's not someone who has this glossy perfect image

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of what they saw on Forbes.com

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or the last Ted Talk they were trying to jump on.

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It's the idea of somebody who's willing to walk their walk

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and talk their talk and demonstrate

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and provide the tools and the resources

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so they can get their people not just where they're at,

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but above and beyond.

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Because I don't know about you,

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but I think you're gonna die one day.

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I think you will too, right?

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And so we're not gonna get like messages from the grave.

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I don't think Charlie Chaplin's talking to us right now,

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right, as an example, right?

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Howard Hughes is not talking to us.

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So we have to have tools that enable other people

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to carry on in their absence.

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I think that's what a great leader does.

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Oh, I see, Javonka.

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You're basically asking me,

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how do I deal with ball busters?

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Yeah.

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I like it.

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Well, let's just get straight to it.

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You're used to running things left, right and center.

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Your mind is spinning through ideas.

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People have even got like, I'm already on step M.

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You all are mining on B and C, right?

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So how are you telling me to slow my role?

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When I've got a 10 year vision planned out

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and you barely have a one month,

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you having a barrel like figure out

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when you're not have cookies or tacos for lunch.

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And I'm already, I'm on it.

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I mean, reinventing tacos.

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So what do you do when you're dealing

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with someone like that, right?

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Who feels like they've got the answers, has the idea.

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And yet still someone's saying,

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I think you smoke too much coke.

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I think I'm tired of seeing you on the cover of TMZ.

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I think you shouldn't urinate in public anymore

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after a drug render.

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Maybe it's time to come to Jesus, right?

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Like have that conversation.

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How do you deal with that?

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And really, Jamon, it really depends on the leader.

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Say that, right?

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It literally is about how low can you go

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before you realize I think it's time

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to re-examine some things.

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And I only work with people who've come to the point

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where you know what?

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I think I'm tired of being disinvited parties.

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I think I'm spending my payroll for my employees

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other than on hookers.

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I think something has to shift.

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And I'm giving extreme examples

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to rattle people off the cases and say,

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oh, it's not that bad, sweetheart.

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It probably was that bad.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And so it's the process of knowing

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that that's the life that they live.

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Like that's literally their life.

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And healing is not usually accompanied

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by all those extra things that they do.

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And so I find it very interesting

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that that is the level of individuals that you serve

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because I tell you, I can only imagine

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what that conversation is like.

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Yeah, I mean, we could talk about

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how we're going to lead your next meeting

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and then we're talking about smoke and dope.

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But I think people just don't get that, right?

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Because you're thinking, wait,

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you've got it all together, right?

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You shouldn't have these kind of vices,

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but think about it.

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If you do extraordinary things

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in your professional capacity,

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the pedal doesn't get off of the metal

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when the whistle blows.

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In fact, we're going above and beyond after the clock.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's the life that we don't know,

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but it's the life that you get an opportunity, Denise,

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to dive into.

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And if you wouldn't mind,

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is there a story or transformation of someone

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or a client that you've had

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that you wouldn't mind sharing?

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We're going to make a lot of these stuff with fake names

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because I don't really want to out people for sure, for sure.

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I'm thinking about one particular person.

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He's executive in a government agency,

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and he was in charge of health and wellness,

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and he had a little grow up at home.

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And he was spending money, when I say grow up,

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I'm not talking about tomatoes.

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He was an amateur, off-label,

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a pharmaceutical provider to himself.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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And during the day,

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he was leading teams of thousands of people.

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And at night, he was consuming his product

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and streaming for the guitar

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and extremely self-loathing on the demise

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of his to-be-fourth marriage.

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That doesn't make sense, right?

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You're leading thousands of people,

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and then you're going at home self-loathing.

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And so what do we do, right?

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We first had to dismantle with his ideas of who he was

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versus the reality of what he was doing to himself.

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Because high-performing leaders always work all the time

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to not just amplify the organization,

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but amplify the image of what they think

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will receive praise from others.

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It takes questioning whether or not

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what he was doing was really helpful or harmful.

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When you're in the middle of a pity party,

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you've got all your friends.

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You got Despair.

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You've got the twins, Bitterness and Envy.

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You've got Retribution,

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who's always wanting to take an ax on someone.

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So you've got all these gladiators of vengeance,

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warfare around.

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It kind of doesn't really open the door

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to have feelings of hope,

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feelings of forgiveness, forgiveness of compassion.

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Because when you're revving up high on stress

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because you didn't deal with those issues,

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you don't have it in that room.

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So going back to the example

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of my pharmaceutical person,

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we had to really analyze,

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if we continue going this path, what does that look like?

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You're putting up a really great charade for yourself,

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but clearly you're not sleeping well.

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You're not having good relationships

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with your adult children.

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You're not feeling satisfaction

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about what you want your life to look like.

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In fact, I could see you under a bridge the next 10 years.

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Do you wanna be under a bridge?

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I don't have many quarters to give out.

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We're going electronics these days,

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not many quarters, okay?

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And I think people asking for donations

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via like a GoFundMe, I don't do that either.

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So you're gonna have to figure out a plan

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that looks different than that.

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So we had to marry those ideas of what's reality,

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what do you wanna do,

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and come up with a game plan that worked well for him.

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There's no such thing as a one size fit all healing stuff,

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despite what Instagram reels tell you.

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And you know what's funny is I was thinking

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the one size fits all, not, not, not in this area,

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not in many things does it.

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And it's so interesting that you have this group

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or this clientele that you work with.

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I'm gonna now start asking, how did you get started

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with high performing individuals?

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Oh, cause I'm a recovering drunk and sex addict.

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So you kind of work with your own client base

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when you know yourself a little better,

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like I know what that looks like.

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I've woken up in my own vomit, have you too?

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When you have the conversations with people,

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when you're talking about things that you understand,

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it opens up the door for more understanding.

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And I just truly believe for me,

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in order for me to get well,

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in order for me to graduate emotionally

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from my own stunted behaviors,

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I had to lean into the things that helped me personally.

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Yeah, just ended therapy, threw on my coat, my blazer,

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and then talked about emotional intelligence.

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Yes.

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Right?

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Or I could be honest and say that my life

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was really sloppy and messy by my own terrible decision,

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by my own unhealed hurts and wounds.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And as you mentioned, thank you for sharing

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such personal information.

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As you mentioned that, it's interesting

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because I was just speaking with a group of people,

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podcasters, how we were informed or realized

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that it's the experience that we have

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that develops the person we are

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that allows us to actually move forward

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to help individuals.

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And so once you, if I could say, got it together,

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what was that starting point that said,

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hey, now I wanna go and move towards other individuals

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who I can relate with and help them?

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I don't think there was really a moment.

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I think there was resistance.

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Like with everything in life, right?

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There's resistance.

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I resisted having my hair in an afro state.

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I'm like, it's natural, it's coming out,

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it's flowing out of me.

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But why am I resisting nature?

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It's because I fear judgment.

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And so for me, what happened was I was doing business,

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I was doing pretty well doing business coaching.

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I would work with my coach.

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And he's like, you know what, Denise,

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your marketing material seems like a life coaching ad.

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What's up with this?

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Oh no, let me re-edit it.

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Wait, this sounds more like life coaching.

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No, no, no, let me re-edit this a little bit more.

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I was creating and growing out what was coming into me.

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I was sweating the stuff.

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Yeah.

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And I could not contain it because it was what was helping,

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it was nurturing me.

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And I just couldn't help but speak to it,

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share it and really dive in deeper.

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And that's happened over a course of a couple of years.

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It wasn't like a one time I woke up,

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yeah, I wanna be a Leukemia and Leukemia

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but that sounds weird to me.

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Like I didn't wake up feeling that way.

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It was like, oh no, I wanna be one of those

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all the cliche things people like drag on Reddit blog.

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Oh, I don't wanna do it.

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But that's what happened for me.

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Yeah, and it's almost feels like it was divine.

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It's like, you know what?

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I'm gonna take you through this experience

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and then I'm gonna stress you out

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and put you in a space and place

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that you don't necessarily wanna be.

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And I love that for you because it pushed you

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into an area not many people touch,

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healing and leadership.

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And again, as we mentioned at the beginning,

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that doesn't often go together at all.

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No, no, and who wants to talk about your resentment?

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Who wants to talk about the fact that you are...

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I mean, I tell people all the time,

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I'm a recovering asshole, here's how.

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I don't want to portray that as if I had a great time

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in corporate America and I just decided

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to be entrepreneurial on a whim.

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It was because I made a lot of crappy mistakes

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but I didn't know why.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And when you say you've made a lot of crappy mistakes,

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could you name a few of those?

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Oh yeah, I remember one particular meeting I had

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when I was in corporate America

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was having an argument with somebody.

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I said, let's you and me take off our ears

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and go to get out of the parking lot.

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I said that in front of our supervisor,

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had no problems with that.

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Yeah, no problems with that.

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It was unhinged when I think about it.

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But at the time, it seemed totally okay.

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When you are in the midst of dealing with symptoms

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of unhealed trauma, suspicion, paranoia, aggression,

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resentment, pity, you think that everybody else

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thinks that way and then you go home

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and watch episode of Red Table Talk

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or The Young and the Restless and then you amplify it

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and then all your friends say, girl,

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you know he was wrong with that

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and then you go back to work and you start feuding

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and then it was perpetuate and perpetuate and perpetuate.

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I think we all have a friend that seems like

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they have a permanent rain cloud, a fix over their head.

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I believe I do and I'm sure everyone else watching this does.

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And as you move through this and as you continue to grow

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as a leader yourself, tell me about your vision.

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I don't wanna sit here and say,

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Jamonka like cliche things.

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I wanna inspire, motivate,

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like come on now, that's like a rain

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that you see on one of those motivational videos

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or whatever.

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For me, let's just get to brass tacks.

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I want to equip you with practical tools

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that can get you from where you are

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to where you want to be that is easy,

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replicable and transmittable to everyone around you.

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I want you to like ooze out.

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I want the people around me to ooze out healing.

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I want the people to ooze out peace.

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I want the people to ooze out waking up

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and feeling like, hey, I got this.

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That you don't have to run through

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and look through 5,000 books

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or look scrolling, doing scrolling on Instagram,

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looking for that one right thing to make you feel right.

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Like you've got the tools right there inside of you.

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That's my vision, equipped and empowered leaders

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who understand themselves and how they want

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to positively transform the people around them.

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And that right there is in a nutshell,

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something that would drive someone

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to actually focus on that.

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The way the world has changed

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and things are so different now,

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how long have you been in business, Matt asked?

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Like altogether, I've been entrepreneur for 13 years, right?

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And there's a lot of stuff that went down in 13 years.

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And I'll tell you this,

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when everyone says the world has changed,

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technology is ever evolving, right?

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The way we communicate and relate to people has been like,

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now I can have like a package sent to me in two hours.

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Like that's fricking amazing.

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Like we have seen so many different things

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evolving at rapid fire,

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but we as humans haven't really changed.

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We wanna be connected.

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We wanna feel understood.

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We wanna be appreciated.

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We wanna have a sense of value

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not just for ourselves and others.

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That gets lost when we're driven by fear, greed and anxieties.

334
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Yeah, yeah.

335
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And that's, as I think about all of this,

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I think it just reminds me of therapy

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and truly digging down and peeling the onion

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just to be a better person for yourself.

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But now you're on a scale of a leader being a better person

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for the people that they lead.

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And it's still this thought process of the pushback

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and the common things.

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What are the common barriers that you see

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in higher performing individuals?

345
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Jermana, that's a really good question.

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The number one thing that comes to my mind is denial.

347
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It's not just a river in Africa.

348
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Yeah, yeah.

349
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And one of the things I see

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so many times with high performing leaders

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is that they have an army of people

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that cover up their crap.

353
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They have an army of people

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that are constantly gaslighting them

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because they fear their wrath, their anger,

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their irrational behavior.

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And so they're being around the smoke screens and gaslight.

358
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I think about like the analogy of like,

359
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the king has no clothes, right?

360
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The king is buck naked, holding the Slim Jim,

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walking down the street.

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And he's pretending like he's got like a child.

363
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,000
No, you got Slim Jim on your hand, okay?

364
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If somebody's gonna tell this dude that he looks crazy,

365
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no, because he's paying our bills

366
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and we don't want to rock that boat.

367
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Absolutely.

368
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Yeah. That's hard.

369
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,200
Yeah. Yeah.

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And when people are covering up what you do,

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it makes an individual less aware of what they are doing

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because no one sees it.

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But it's such a powerful thing for a leader

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to actually want to even dive into healing

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and just doing better and being a better person,

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not only for themselves, but the people they lead.

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And as I do not want to take up any more of your time,

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but I have my most favorite question.

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What are the greatest joys of what you do?

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Oh, wow.

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I, this is a lot.

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For me, I love seeing people telling me

383
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I wake up after a well-night sleep.

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I love hearing people say,

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I'm reconnecting better with my people.

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And I say people,

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I'm not just talking about their employees.

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They're about their family members.

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I love hearing people say, you know what?

390
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I need to redesign my business so I can serve,

391
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not just my organization, but I can serve myself.

392
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Hearing people retool their lives

393
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to be more in alignment with their mental,

394
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,240
physical and emotional health,

395
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it's just, I can't explain it more.

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So that gives me a lot of joy.

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Because I know I needed that 15 years ago desperately,

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and I didn't know anybody who could approach it

399
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the way that I do.

400
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,360
Thank you for being here today.

401
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,840
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

402
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,480
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions

403
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,800
as these episodes continue to move forward.

404
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,480
This is gonna get more and more fun.

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00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,280
We'll have more and more engagement as well.

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We'll invite people to participate in the show.

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And thank you for giving us your time and attention.

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Have an excellent time building out your vision

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and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.