How did you get started on this journey?
Well, it all started growing up in Princeton, New Jersey
in a big family, going to public school.
And we have this traveling creative writing teacher
who had lost a hand in World War II.
His name was Mr. Doherty.
And he was amazing.
He would tell stories about people
in awkward situations in everyday life,
like the kind of stuff everybody deals with being human.
There we were, age 12, writing about an awkward dance,
about someone who was mean, about horror.
And I thought, all right, that's it.
I want to be a writer.
And I didn't really know how to be a writer at that point.
But I made that decision at that early age.
And then I entered.
I went to college.
And I started working at newspapers
to get myself going as a writer and build my career
one small step at a time for the next several decades.
Yes, yes.
I love that.
I mean, that's creative thinking at its best and so young.
I mean, thinking if we had, well,
I haven't been in school in a very long time,
but thinking if we had teachers that open up our children's
mind like that now, that would be amazing.
And I know there are some amazing teachers out there.
Everybody don't start posting that.
I don't think teachers are amazing.
But there's just a big, big difference.
Because I had a teacher.
His name was Mr. Green.
He was amazing.
But I don't know if I hear teachers like that that
will allow.
And you can remember their name and say,
this teacher had a part in my life.
That is amazing.
I love it.
So tell me about your book.
Well, my book is sort of a linear journey
of how I explored the outdoors from age three
when I climbed my first mountain to basically now.
And it includes a lot of awkward growing up situations
where I didn't, you know, girls, adolescent girls,
not liking their body, being in dance class,
having people say you don't look right,
and all that nonsense.
And then I discovered long distance
hiking in my early 20s.
So I describe these journeys.
It's a narrative.
You know, you just roll yourself into the story.
And then I had children.
I got married and had children.
I married a guy who I had done a lot of hiking with.
And we still were speaking to each other,
which is really nice.
And we had two daughters.
They're now all grown up.
But when those girls were growing up,
and they came home and would say things
that boys had said to them on the playground and said,
you know, girls can't do things.
They're not strong.
And I felt I had this obligation to teach them
that you can do hard things, be uncomfortable, be cold,
be in a tent, be in the mud, you know,
think you're not going to make it,
and then come out the other end.
So the book talks about some debacles
that I had taking my daughters out, just me and the girls,
girls trips.
So there's a whole section about that.
Then I decided in my 50s, I needed to go solo.
So there's a whole section in there of me alone backpacking,
mostly in the White Mountains of New Hampshire,
for anywhere from two to five days at a time,
having to deal with my own demons and everything.
And then finally, the book sort of wraps up
where I come back around to realizing I want
to be with other people again.
And that my solo escapades had been a way
to teach me more about how to cooperate in community, which
we have to do in this life.
So that is a whole big journey.
And so on the front there is a picture of,
it's an artist rendering based on a picture of me
in the mountains.
And then on the back is an artist rendering
based on my girls in the mountains,
on one of those trips when I dragged them up to the world.
How did they like it?
Well, they were often very quiet and cooperative.
They were interesting children that way.
So like is not necessarily the word I would use.
They were willing to go.
They would get excited when they got to the top of somewhere.
They went with me and me and my husband year after year.
And so I think the best word to say
is that they were willing to go through the experience.
One of my daughters, when she was pretty young,
announced to me, well, I realize some families go to Disney
World and we go camping.
Yeah, I thought.
I hope social services isn't going to come and take them
away from me.
But what the goal was was to teach them
something completely different.
The fact that they were coming home saying those things.
And I hear those stories now with my 14 and 10-year-old.
And it's very interesting how to keep girls encouraged
and inspired and still feeling strong and still
feeling like a woman.
It's a lot.
I think it's hard to grow up.
It's hard to grow up anyway these days.
But being a girl, especially being born into a female body
and figuring out how you're going to navigate the world,
parents have a real project.
It's a project that we're doing with them.
It is definitely a project.
And it's so funny that I'm going to say this on here.
As I went through the holiday season
and we celebrate Christmas, I had an aha moment
the other day.
I was like, I raised all of my kids wrong.
Oh, my God.
I think I raised them wrong just a little bit.
It's that reflection of what you could have done differently
and how you could have moved differently.
And I now have an opportunity to encourage and do differently.
And what I was meaning in raising them wrong
is they wanted some really expensive gifts.
And I was like, not doing that.
But in the aspects of talking about what you're talking
about, it's truly having that full on discussion
and asking them how they felt about feeling maybe,
I don't want to use the word to put words in other people's
head, but feeling a bit inferior to some of the boys at school.
But I love to be part of that.
Kids will ask for expensive stuff.
And they're always going to ask.
They're going to see what will happen.
It's like you responded the right way.
They got one instead of a whole bunch.
But life is very interesting.
And I love the fact that you're utilizing just being out
and about in the wilderness.
And I want to ask for you to tell me about your vision
when you decided to make and write this book.
Well, initially, I did not understand what my vision was.
And then a bunch of people helped me write better.
I always try to get help.
I have groups I show things to, people I trust.
I had a writing teacher.
You've got to ask.
And so they all said, you don't know what this book's about.
I'm like, what do you mean I don't know
what this book's about?
But I didn't.
And so I had to step back and think about it.
And what that did was it led me back to my grandmother,
of all things, realizing watching her when
I was pretty young, I adored her.
She had severe osteoporosis.
She was not allowed to drive a car.
She had never done any of this sort of outdoor stuff.
She had raised her own children and then
her alcoholic sister's child who had been dropped off.
She had to do that stuff.
So in many ways, she didn't have freedom, the kind of freedom
that I fortunately really grew up with.
And then I realized that this book was really, my vision was,
how can a woman learn who she really is,
what she has to offer the world, what I have to offer the world?
And my way of learning that was by repeatedly going back
into the wilds and facing up to my own fears.
And that became my message.
I love that.
It's crazy how you have this idea
and you begin to write or choose to dive deeply in
and then have to pause to reflect.
And I love that you went all the way back to your grandmother.
A very random question.
What is freedom to you?
What does it feel like to feel free?
Yeah, that is such a great question.
Well, one way I do define freedom in my daily life
is that I have the ability to go where I want to go
and need to go without asking someone else to take me.
So I'm not dependent on someone for doing errands.
Freedom is also earning my own money
and contributing to my household equally
with the person I live with, my husband,
because so many women in my family
did not have that freedom.
I think that's the biggest way I define freedom,
because I watched my aunts and my grandmother
have to ask for money, have to go places,
and they needed permission to go do things.
And I have a marriage that I'll say,
I'm going up to the mountains in August.
I'll be away for a week.
And he says, OK.
That's freedom to me.
I love that.
Thank you for answering that, because it
was definitely very random.
When you said the word, I seen something changing you.
And I was like, ah, what does that feel like?
What does that look like?
And just wanting to hear the descriptive piece to that
was amazing.
Thank you.
What personal adventure taught you the most about yourself?
Probably the solo.
There were two solo trips I took.
I took several solo trips.
But there were two in particular that taught me
a lot about what I had in me.
One of them, I was out for four nights, five days,
in the White Mountains.
And the first day, I had to go 11 miles,
and I got rained on pretty early on.
And it was June.
It was late June in New Hampshire.
So it was not winter.
And it was not even spring anymore, but it was cold.
And I got soaked and cold.
And then when I got above where the trees grow,
above the tree line, in a range called the Bonds,
there's this mountain called Bond Cliff and West Bond.
And you're going along, and you look one direction
and see one range, and look another direction,
see another range.
And there was nobody with me.
I was completely alone.
And I realized I was in trouble, because I was really cold.
And the wind was blowing.
And I had to get to a certain place by nighttime
so I would be safe.
And I got turned around on one of the mountains.
I got confused.
I was so cold enough that I was not paying attention carefully
which way I needed to go.
I had a mile left to the campsite.
I turned the wrong way and started going back
the way I had come.
And I didn't realize it until I came
to this very strange looking green rock
I had seen on the way up that last mountain.
And I thought, what is that green rock?
That is the weirdest green rock I've ever seen.
And I'm thinking to myself, I can't do this.
How am I doing this?
I don't feel so great.
My heart's beating kind of funny.
I realized I was dehydrated and I was cold.
So I realized it later, though.
You're asking me, how did I grow through that?
I think that's what you asked me.
And what I learned was I had enough experience
at that point, because we had hiked the whole Appalachian
Trail from Georgia to Maine several years before.
I had a lot of experience.
I knew how to keep going.
I understood that you don't sit down and weep,
that you just keep going.
But it was kind of instinctive.
And I was not, ugh.
And so I finally did get where I needed to go.
And then later, I reflected back that I
was doing that on pure instinct.
And I had the chance to see that in a situation like that,
I was going to be able to draw on my instincts.
And that was an amazing lesson to learn.
The other thing that I, the other solo trip experience
was this creepy, lonely thing where
I ended up down in an abandoned campsite in a wilderness area.
The White Mountains, all over the US,
there are areas that are designated officially
federal wilderness areas.
And there are all kinds of things
they will not do in those areas.
They will not allow structures.
You can't have a lot of signs.
It's supposed to be wild.
So there had been a campsite, but the Forest Service
had dismantled it, which was creepy, creepy, creepy.
There were piles of lumber around.
And somebody had tried to build a shelter, roughly,
using the stuff that was left.
It was like a ghost town.
And I'm alone there.
And nobody else is there.
And I was just creeped out.
I had this counter with a large, they're called snowshoe hares.
They look like giant rabbits.
And they're very elusive.
And they come out at dusk because they
know they're going to get eaten by something.
And I'm like, ah.
And so I learned you can be really scared,
out of your mind scared, and you will survive.
I had this visitation from my dead father
in the middle of the night.
I'm like, Dad, and woo.
And then in the morning, I got up
and I bumbled over to this horrible thing
that somebody had built to make a shelter.
And I crept inside.
And there's an old bottle of whiskey sitting in the corner.
And I said, why am I doing this?
Out loud, I said, why am I doing this?
And then I realized, I'm doing this
because I'm going to get through it.
And I am doing this because I'm living with my own choices.
That's really what it was.
No one else wanted me to do this.
This is my choice.
So I'm just going to get water.
I'm going to make myself some coffee.
And then I'm going to walk up that ridge.
And it was like a really freeing feeling,
even though I thought, God, I can't wait to get out
of this weird place.
Yes.
I tell you, that's a true example of overcoming fear
because Christy, Jebanca would have found the nearest vehicle.
Well, there were no vehicles.
But I know.
I mean, I wouldn't have made it.
No, and that's amazed at what you could do, though.
That's the cool thing.
In my mind, no, Christy.
Oh, no.
I mean, it sounded so much like a movie.
I forgot I was literally on a podcast.
I'm like, what?
And then what next?
Absolutely not.
But would I be willing?
Absolutely.
Because I believe that some of the things that you're
describing are often some of the things people say
that they can't do, won't do.
But those are the things that will probably
teach us the biggest lessons, not about the world,
but more so about ourselves, like digging deep inside
of a place that we had no clue in order to survive,
but also not even just that, choosing to go.
And that's what you did.
You chose to go.
You chose to make it through.
And hey, that's courage at its highest,
overcoming fear at its highest.
Yeah.
Yeah, thank you for that.
I mean, I think that's what courage is.
It's managing fear.
Yeah.
And interesting enough, with the experiences that you've had,
how can people overcome their fears
and step into situations and nature-based challenges
like you've done?
How can they try to do it the way I did?
Or how would I suggest anyone?
Yeah, what would you suggest?
Because see, your experience, and I
believe having daughters that were willing to do
what you've done, there's more of us like that.
You know what I mean?
And so these are things that are overcoming fear.
And for some people, it's like, you know what?
Pretty much what I just said.
I can't do that.
And that should not have been the mindset that I have.
I think it's more so I cannot imagine doing that.
So to the people that are watching this,
I could do anything.
However, that was my first stop.
So Christy, please help encourage someone else
to overcome their fear and to build courage.
Well, I think it's really good to identify
when something out in the world that we encounter
elicits a strong reaction in us, like, oh my god,
I could never do that.
And I think that if you find yourself saying that
to yourself, you should listen to that.
What do you mean?
Why is that the thing that you said,
I could never do that?
There could be reasonable answers
for why you couldn't do that.
I mean, for example, if somebody has a really bad fear of heights,
they probably should not become a technical climber
or become a bridge painter.
But I would say that can be a clue to how to grow a little bit.
And it also, fear can be a little bit related
to what might become a passion.
So somebody might be like, I always wanted to learn the guitar,
but I'm afraid to try because somebody told me I had a 10 year,
some ill-advised teacher told me that.
So I would say listen to those little clues
and then try something.
And in terms of the wilderness kind of experiences I have,
go out with others.
Find an organization like the Appalachian Mountain Club
that publishes the journal I edit,
and also was my publisher of this book.
They have guided trips.
They have guides.
They teach people.
They have really helpful books people can get.
So try to learn a few things.
Learn how to use the gear that we need,
flashlights, tents, tarps, getting the right clothing, staying warm,
what do you do for food, all that.
Try it.
Try a night out or two.
And try it with other people.
Then try it by yourself.
You know those old TV shows where kids would get all excited about camping
and then they'd go camp in the backyard,
and then by 2 in the morning they all go in the house?
Yep.
That's a great experience, just to even make it to 2 in the morning
and know what it feels like to lie on the ground.
Those things, that's how you try.
And then when I would take the kids camping, of course,
we couldn't go into the house in the middle of the night
because we were miles away from civilization
and we had to keep going and get through it.
And that's a good experience too.
Yeah.
Step by step.
That's it.
And just like you said, going out in the backyard and trying to camp
and being close to home, that might be a great start.
So Chris, what are your future plans?
What's next for you to inspire and encourage women to dive
into nature-based things or just to find themselves
and be able to find power within themselves?
What's next for you?
Well, I am working on a book about my New Jersey ancestors.
And I am descended, on my father's side,
from people who lived in New Jersey for 200 plus years
and were small farmers.
And they struggled.
They didn't have a lot of money.
My great grandfather was always selling off his stuff
and then rebuilding.
And so I'm trying to tell the story of people
who have been forgotten in history.
Because once the really big farms came in down there
and started doing frozen food and these giant blueberry farms
and stuff, the small timers, that whole world of them,
kind of faded away.
And I want to bring that back because I'm
so fascinated with the power of ordinary people, what
ordinary people can accomplish and how they survive.
And my father, who, so my grandfather,
it was the last one who was there,
and he left when he got married.
And then my father grew up in Trenton, New Jersey,
and never experienced the farm.
But he would hear about it from his dad.
He never took us down there.
They never talked about it except to say,
my father would say they never did anything down there.
They never accomplished anything.
And so I'm just curious.
So I'm working on that.
And I think that speaks to the strength of women and men who
were faced with marginal circumstances
and had to find a way to keep going.
And I've also started writing some fiction.
I published my first fiction story
this year about a trail runner in a small fiction anthology.
And I'm going to experiment more with that
and see where that takes me.
I've been teaching as well.
I do a little teaching at the University of Connecticut.
And I look at my students.
They're all learning how to be writers and journalists.
And some of them are majoring in other things.
And I always ask myself, what can I do?
What do they need?
How can I help them be better?
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these
episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show.
And thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision
and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.