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What tips would you have for leaders?

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So leadership is really complex and there it's very multifaceted and every level of leadership, you actually have to learn new skills, new behaviors and spend your time on different things.

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And so what I've done is I've broken down leadership into three pillars of leadership success.

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So the first tip I have for leaders is that first leadership pillars, know yourself.

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The second one is manage your team and the third one is lead your business.

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So tip for that first pillar of know yourself, understand your strengths and weaknesses and then hire people on your team to close the gaps.

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You can't develop all your weaknesses.

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So hire really smart people who have a strength which closes the gap on your weakness.

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A tip for that second pillar of manage your team is around feedback.

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So you have to give both positive and constructive feedback.

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So positive feedback is to reinforce the behavior you want to see again.

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So positive feedback is not, oh, you did a great job today. Thank you. Thank you.

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Positive feedback is when someone goes the extra mile, give them feedback.

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Recognize that they've gone the extra mile and constructive feedback you have to give away.

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You have to give right away.

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For constructive feedback, most leaders avoid it because they don't know how to give it.

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And so a tip I have is really learn how to give constructive feedback.

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That's something that I teach the leaders that I work with all the time how to do.

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There's a process to give constructive feedback and it's not something you should be afraid of.

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It's not based on personality.

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It's based on specific behaviors that you see the person doing that they need to change.

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And so typically that person has a blind spot around those behaviors.

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They don't know that they're doing something that needs to be fixed.

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So if you avoid giving them feedback, they're never going to be able to fix that behavior.

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Yes. And then if things get too hard of a hand and some things goes beyond your control,

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then it's a fire or not situation which you don't want to deal with.

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It's easier to fix it earlier in the stages than it is to later in the stages

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when things have been already cemented in place.

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That's a great point. And I would say the same for conflict.

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If you don't address a conflict situation right away, it's just going to get worse.

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It's just going to expand. And so you're so right.

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And with both conflict and feedback, they need to be addressed right away.

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Correct. My next thing for you, Vanessa, I think it's a it's a hard question

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and you can take time to think about it if you like.

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What is your most significant learning experience when it comes to leadership?

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So my most significant learning experience when it comes to leaders is having a really bad leader myself.

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So I worked in an organization where I worked there for five years.

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I had a wonderful leader and a new person got brought into the organization.

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She was an external hire and she was not a good cultural fit.

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And unfortunately, she was awful. She was very controlling, very power hungry.

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She took away all my responsibilities. She yelled at me in front of people.

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She was quite a bully, to be honest.

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And I know anyone who's had that experience knows that it's it's really a soul sucking experience.

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And so why that was so important for me is I'd never had a really bad leader before.

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I mean, I had leaders who had issues, but I really never had a leader before that was such a bully.

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And what I learned as a leadership consultant coach is how important leadership is,

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that as a leader, you actually make or break people's experience at work.

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And that experience personally of having a soul sucking leader really solidified my passion

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for the work that I do as a leadership consultant and coach, because I realized how important leaders are.

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You set the tone for your team and you literally make or break people's experience at work.

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Yeah. So tell me more about that. How did that situation turn out after that?

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So basically, it turned out terribly. To be really honest, I had to leave the organization.

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And so I did. And it took me two or three months just to what I call defrost,

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because it was such a challenging experience for me.

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And when I speak to leaders or people, individuals who are going through an experience like that right now,

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I always explain to them what defrosting means, right?

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Because when you've gone through a soul sucking experience like that,

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it's it's really detrimental to your mental health and well-being.

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And I actually became like depressed. I'm a very upbeat person.

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But the thought of going into work every day and working for this terrible leader just was so bad for my mental health.

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So it took me some time to really defrost and gain my strength back and gain my confidence back.

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And so I always say to people, like, give yourself time to to get healthy again.

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And think of what you learned from that experience.

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And what I learned is I never want to be that kind of leader and that I'm passionate

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to the work that I do in facilitating leadership program and development for other people

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so that under my watch, no leaders are going to be that kind of a horrendous boss.

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Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

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There's two sides to the situation, though.

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And I think I want to talk about the other side now.

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There is the employee side and the employer's side.

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We talked about how being a better leader can avoid those situations.

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But what tips would you have for employees in that situation?

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Well, for sure.

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I mean, I was the employee in that situation.

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Do you mean for the business or do you mean for the person going through it or for the leader?

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The person going through it, yes.

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The person going through it. So I was the person going through it.

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And so I think that you have to always do what's best for you.

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And you are the CEO of your own organization.

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You are in control of your own career.

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And if that person's not leaving, you need to leave.

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I was recently speaking to somebody who was in a fairly senior position at GE, General Electric,

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and he was leading quite a big, big team and he had a terrible, terrible boss.

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And the question I said to him is, is this boss of yours ever going to leave?

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Do you see him moving to another organization?

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Do you see him moving to another department?

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Do you see him retiring soon?

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And he said, no.

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I said, well, so you have two choices.

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You either stay and you tolerate this terrible leader or you move you move departments and jobs yourself.

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Like those are your two choices.

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And so he decided to leave and he's so much happier now.

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He's still within the organization, but he's moved to a different department.

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He loves his leader.

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And so you have to take charge.

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Like, don't stay in a situation that's detrimental to your own physical and mental health.

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I recall a time where I was living on the East Coast in Virginia and I had a similar situation where

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maybe I was at a fault too, or maybe my boss, but the environment that was created, it wasn't healthy.

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And I felt like that the people, their goal was to secure their job instead of progressing the

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company as a whole.

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And that sucked the life out of me.

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Like I would I would go and go work.

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I'm like, I was like every time I would go, my goal would be like, hey, I want to do these tasks.

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So then in the future, this can be automated and I can move on to something better and I can do something better.

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But I think that was not the mentality for my leaders at that time.

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They wanted to stay there and not be replaced.

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And I would go there and that would suck the life out of me and I would not be happy.

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I would just and that affects to a great extent.

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And there's a lot of parts to it.

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So I've been there.

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I've been there to understand what people can go through and I understand what you went through.

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It's amazing how many people have been in that situation before.

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It really is.

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Yeah, it's how we got to have better leaders.

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We got to have and employees will need to do right for them as well.

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Most people don't have the courage to actually take it and take a stand.

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They have to choose between paying the bills next month or their mental health.

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And most people choose wrong most times.

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Oh, for sure. And, you know, the problem is in most organizations is that leaders are promoted without training or education.

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Really?

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Oh, yeah, many, many times they're like, oh, you're good.

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Let's take, for example, an engineer.

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You're really good at your job as an engineer.

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Now you're going to lead an engineering team.

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Guess what? It's a different job.

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It's a different job.

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So when you promote someone, when organizations promote someone into a leadership role, they have to train them how to do that.

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How do you coach? How do you give feedback?

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How do you delegate? How do you hold people accountable?

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Right. All of those are are very critical parts of leadership.

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But many people are promoted into leadership roles without any coaching or training on how to do those things.

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Thank you for being here today.

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I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.

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This is going to get more and more fun.

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We'll have more and more engagement as well.

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We'll invite people to participate in the show.

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And thank you for giving us your time and attention.

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Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.