Other than that, man, it's a go.
So, uh, okay.
You've been, you've been on quite a few interviews.
You've been in the game of podcasting for some time.
Um, you've got your masterminds going and, uh, you're, you're well respected
leader, um, and the, and the realm of business and growth.
So Jeremy, what's the, what's the best show that you've been on or best production
insight you could give for those who are on the podcast route?
Let's, let's start there.
Wow.
So, uh, there's certainly a handful of things I look out for.
Um, one obviously is when I see, you know, hosts have done their homework like you've
done and have well-researched questions and are organized ahead of time.
Um, that always makes for a great show.
Um, I've seen a mixed bag of that for sure.
I've actually written about some of those different experiences and guessing.
Um, but yeah, the more prepped, uh, a show host is the better.
Um, in terms of the individual podcasts that have done that, uh, there have been a few
I've done lately where I've seen that, um, I can, I can get you some of those links
afterwards as well.
Yeah.
I'm curious.
Like what's one of the favorite shows you've been on?
Uh, well, certainly, you know, mutual friend of yours and mine, you know, Junaid, uh,
when he, right.
Super Junaid.
Yep.
Right.
Super Junaid.
When he had me on, uh, you know, he did his homework, had really good questions.
Um, not just on, you know, on the professional side, but just the personal
connection side of things too.
Um, also really good production quality there for his hacks and hobbies.
Um, so that was a good one.
And then I'm just looking at the calendar here.
Um, last week, um, uh, last week, one of the shows I was on was, uh, this is with
Frank and, uh, Frank Iglesias.
And so, uh, with his show, what I really enjoyed, um, was there was not just the
common ground, which we were able to figure out, you know, ahead of time.
Um, you know, he has, uh, working with houses is, um, is one of the ways he's
doing his work, and, uh, is one of the ways you'd find him and, uh, you know,
he just had a really good way of researching ahead of time and figuring
out what it is we should be talking about.
So it wasn't just the same old sort of pulled from the list of questions we can
talk about, it was things that he wanted to talk about that made sense for his
listeners.
Love it.
So all your visionary leaders listening in, you're getting ready to go out there
and tell your stories at new capacities.
Podcasting, of course, is one of the best, easiest, fastest ways to do that.
And so I will say that it's, you know, really good enough.
This is a big time amount.
If you've been here in degree programs, you would realize, like I said,
this is just one way to support a very much otherwise wouldn't be open to you.
And I will say I spent, oh, I think it was $12,000 on a PR media
and course slash group program to learn.
One of the greatest secrets about PR media that nobody wanted to learn,
which was it's really just all about relationships.
Right.
And so if we don't really dive in deep into those relationships, we tend to get shallow
results for shallow efforts.
Right.
And that goes for PR media, customer and client relations, prospect relations, et cetera.
So you mentioned, you mentioned Junaid and we have doubled down.
I couldn't even say that 100 X times down on our relationship with Junaid.
For those of you who don't know, nobody's heard this announcement besides our internal
team.
Junaid is now an equity partner at First Class Business.
We're so impressed with what we've both done.
We went to PodFest this past week and shout out to Chris for throwing an amazing event,
1800 podcasters, to see what Junaid was up to there and how he shows up as a leader in
person and to get to mastermind with him on a daily basis.
In addition to the months we've spent together, I got to double down with Jeremy on that.
Oh yeah.
Junaid is so impressive that I was like, I would love for you to come in as an equity
partner with what we're up to.
So it's a solid announcement and definitely a great choice, Jeremy.
You know, it's funny because there's something that you did really well, Junaid does well,
and some of the best podcast hosts do that.
I really appreciate it.
And that's the pre-interview.
Contrast that with the folks where you just hop on a call and you get right into a recording.
You know, I compare that to like if you've been to a wedding before and you see the fish
shanked up there and they're introducing the couple getting married and they're mispronouncing
a name.
And they're like, in the time that I've known them since we met in the parking lot just
before this, and it's like, sets the total wrong stage.
Contrast that with someone who's known the couple for their life, right?
And it has so much to say.
It's such a deeper level.
So those pre-interviews, what you're mind about?
Oh, I love that.
I've never heard that frame of reference before, but the power of that and the importance of
sacred nature, right?
The reverence of the relationship that exists.
If we can dedicate that type, if we're willing to dedicate that type of energy into the people
we're hosting, that's great.
I will also contrast on that.
Vision Pros goes through both of those experiences, right?
We have levels of interviews.
So as a podcaster, if you're meeting with somebody for the first time and it's a brand
new relationship and you expose that vulnerably, authentically, then you're still going to
have a great show.
Because you're going to invite the audience into realizing you're discovering that together.
I think it's when we try to run it like a wedding, but you haven't done the preparations
for a wedding where you get yourself into serious trouble or it's like, okay, now we
know this host is just like inauthentically promoting people that they don't really know.
I'll share the hybrid I've seen that I think can work well.
If you're not going to do a separate call to do the prep and plan an episode, right?
And you are just doing the, hey, let's hop on and jump in.
Even a few minutes beforehand to get your top questions answered as a guest and a host
can help to set that stage, right?
Or if your team, for many of us who do have a team, to do some legwork for you ahead of
time is also powerful and lets you sort of make the most of your time and do that sort
of as a one-shot record.
You forced my hand and I love that you did.
So I'm going to release in the episode notes right now for you guys to check it out.
The 12-step checklist that we have to recognize market leaders.
It's probably the best emotional intelligence guide.
Well, I know it is.
It comes from all the resources I've ever seen plus what I've added to it as well.
So let me drop that in there for you.
Is there better on the planet?
I hope so.
If you see better, send it to me.
This will help you with that process because everybody's at a different level.
My hope is that if you're hosting people, you have a pretty good ground of EQ already
underneath your feet so that you know where to take people from there.
And this goes beyond the podcast, your own visionaries, everybody you meet in relation
to your vision, you want to make sure you're sharing your vision with people who are going
to take it seriously and are going to care about that particular vision.
So Jeremy, let's dive into the first question for you.
You've been building visions.
You've been up to helping leaders for a long time.
What are three resources that have helped get you to where you are?
Yeah.
So in terms of resources, one of them for sure goes with this idea of entrepreneurship
is not like a solo sport.
We do a lot better when we surround ourselves with like-minded individuals on that similar
path.
So whether it's in a formal setting like mastermind groups that I love or more informally with
an accountability partner or someone else, make sure you're not going at it alone.
Surround yourself by others, people who've been there, who've done that, and who are
bringing their own superpowers to that journey.
They'll be so, so helpful for you along the way, not just in helping you overcome challenges,
but helping you to acknowledge what you've done and to celebrate those successes along
the way.
That's really powerful.
Right?
Huge.
Second is, and this often goes hand in hand, is continuing to be a lifelong learner.
None of us have gotten there, done it, and graduated life.
Right?
The graduation is later.
We're not rushing towards that.
So along the journey we call life.
Continue to read, continue to attend events, continue to expand the network, continue to
sign up for and take courses, get mentors.
Grow, not just professionally, personally.
This is our, for many of us, believe our one shot at this, so get at it.
So be a lifelong learner.
In fact, one of the things we look for when I'm talking to prospective clients or Mastermind
members is I ask, hey, what are you reading?
What have been some of the more influential books for you?
What events do you go to?
What courses do you like?
What authors do you follow?
Those kinds of things.
We look for folks who have an answer.
There's some scary stat Jackson, I think you and I were talking about, about the double
digit percentage of Americans where the last book they read was in high school.
It's a shockingly high number.
Let's not be those.
Let's be the lifelong learners.
So that's been huge.
And then the third is this idea, again, on the topic of not going at it alone, but having
a team, right?
None of us can work 28 hours a day, nine days a week, but we can build businesses that can
run and grow well beyond what we can do on our own.
So surround yourself with a team, create the systems for those teams.
That starts to help you move towards that freedom that we all talk so much about, right?
And can let you scale as well as take care of other things like launching a new business,
product roadmap, vision for the company, team building, and all the rest of that as well.
I love those.
Those are phenomenal.
We've opened a million doors just in that little bitty segment.
All you listening in, we're going to do our best to add the guides that we've created
along the way related to those specific topics.
And I think Jeremy probably unlocked at least one or two more guides in the process of how
to go about that.
One of the ones that's coming to mind is making sure that we maximize the events that we go
to, right?
The idea of being intentional with these types of perspectives, many of you can, you have
the right to say, man, I went to this event and it didn't do anything for me.
My hope is that you will reframe that.
Maybe ask Chad GPT, what did I do wrong to not get something out of this event?
Right?
It's an outly we do on.
If I can add something on that topic of intention, and I love how you say, you know, be intentional
about the events we go to.
I would add, don't just be intentional about the events you go to be intentional with each
event that you go to.
And what I mean by that is beforehand, you know, I go over this when we're running, uh,
running events, right?
Look for that golden nugget, activate that reticular activating system.
So you're on the lookout for value because look, not every word of every speaker of every
book of everything you take will be mindblown only new, but there are pieces in there.
And if we go looking for that little bit of value, we're going to find it in each presentation,
right?
In each book and each course it's there.
We just need to look for it sometimes.
Yes.
One of the big things that I love about speaking with Jeremy, every time we get to speak, he
is a lot like me and that we optimize everything we hear as we go.
That's how I was like, and this, and this, but this, but this, and that, that process,
while some of us, you know, I remember days where I would exhaust people related to that.
Well, I wasn't working with people that could work out on my level.
Right.
And so that naturally, they would feel exhausted with that process.
And for those of you listening in, we're just going to keep doubling down.
So with that, I'm going to share, um, one of the ways that we up leveled and it's not
just about the pre-show preparations.
What you're looking at is the team assignments and how we assign the teams to the 1800 people
registered and the Hoover app for the podfest and what team, what strategy they were going
to follow to extract, put together the data, make sure they assign all these individuals
to our different clients.
And then we're taking these individuals, the information that we have, making sure we have
all of their social media stuff figured out, their interests, our client interests, all
formed into one spreadsheet.
And yes, you can use Zapier for some of the stuff too, but that would limit, that would
be one small component of a greater strategy that allows us to connect with people prior
to the event that allows us to center on who we want to really target building a great
relationship with at the event and how we're going to handle the post-show followup and
then expand upon the compound effect that allows us to follow up in ways that connect
them to 30 other people who are integrated really well with everything that we're doing
as a business.
Plus there's the ability to add, uh, remarketing and advertising on top of that in order to
be front of mind.
So there's, there's so many things that we can do to maximize our events out there.
So like I said, we'll put a little bit of a guide together for that.
The one, the one thing you said, Jeremy, that I really want to circle back around to is
you almost quoted one of my business partners, um, in a way that changed my life.
Um, at Restaurant Connect when we were building the systems out for that, I mean, that was
one of the most grueling systems we've ever created.
And Adam and I were reconvening after a few years of kind of a sabbatical from each other.
And he said, we were lamenting about all that we had learned.
And he says, Jack's an entrepreneur, uh, isn't just a team sport, which is what I brought
to the table with entrepreneurs, team stories.
It's a bloody sport.
Um, you know, and he was talking about just how hard it is.
And we started talking about how it can be like rock climbing where, you know, you can
fall three feet, but you can also fall 3000 feet.
Um, right.
And the recovery from such an experience, the difficult nature of trying to, you know,
to do that and then the need to put systems in place, anchors in place that keep you from
having the 3000 foot falls.
It's something that I think so many people get involved with building visions and entrepreneurship
without really thinking through all of that, which is why Jeremy and I are going to take
the time to define entrepreneurship from different perspectives and what we've seen in the process
because there are goods, there are bads and there are uglies associated with entrepreneurship.
And I love that he's always willing to dive in deep in me and, and combat on both sides.
So we can give you guys as healthy and holistic as a perspective as possible for the visions
you continue to drive.
So we'll be right back.
I'll bring Jeremy back on.
We'll dive into his view of what entrepreneurship looks like, how we define it for others.
And we'll go from there.
All right.
Welcome in to vision pros live with Jackson Callum.
I'm your show host.
We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic
visions out there.
Hey, what's up everybody.
Welcome into another episode of vision pros live.
I'm your show host, Jackson Callum, founder and CEO of first-class business.
And I'm really excited to have Jeremy Shapiro on today.
One of the big reasons why I love when I get the chance to get together with Jeremy is
we both have no BS attitudes about growth.
We both want to talk about the realism of what exists.
And he's got a lot of experience when it comes to mastermind and teaching people and helping
people out and the, the ability to come in and butt heads, respectfully, it's kind of
like putting two mathematicians on chalkboards and allowing them to just go to town and we
can kind of borrow each other notes, talk to each other, see what's going on.
And that's, it's really, really helpful for me when somebody's able and willing to challenge
my perspective.
And I hope that all of you visionaries get the chance to do the same thing with what
we propose and how we talk about this defining true entrepreneurship for each one of you.
We hope that you as well end up diving into the comments and providing your own definitions
and providing more perspective and paradigm around what we see as we get ready to bring
Jeremy back on.
I'm always going to talk about some of the values that exist too, that I hope help you
on your journey with your growth.
We're going to start with opportunities for work for Latinos.
This same program now exists in India, now exists in the Philippines, and we're currently
launching the version for Pakistan at the same time.
So opportunities is all about one, helping people who've never heard of LinkedIn, Upwork,
Canva, Fiverr, the resources that we all take for granted, helping them realize there's
space for them to work in an online economy.
Well, as part of that, one of the ways we get them interested in learning about that
is hosting visionary leaders or inspirational folks who come from those exact backgrounds.
So on the Latino show, we actually host Latinos who are doing things that are amazing or people
like Jeremy, who I saw that he speaks Spanish.
I don't know how much he speaks Spanish, but he speaks enough, enough to inspire people.
And so he's the type of person we would want to bring on that show to spread the good word
that there's opportunity that exists here.
And then we train these individuals not on VA relationships.
We call that virtual abuse.
We train them to become digital ambassadors and to learn how to really represent brands
at a big level.
And then brands can hire them directly.
But most of the time we hire them to work with our clients because we're constantly
in need of more help as we continue to expand and grow first class business.
Then there's Learn and Grow Rich.
Learnandgrowerich.net with Zach Ullman.
I was so impressed with him on the show and throughout the process that we went and vetted
all of his systems and saw that he's kind of built the same thing we have, but from
a financial perspective.
And most of his roles in departments are different than the roles in departments that we build
out.
So I actually hired Zach as a chief financial officer for first class business because he's
got the ability to expand financial departments the same way we do marketing and operations
support.
And it gives us both the chance to come in, provide an even greater level of stability
for the clients who work with us.
I highly recommend checking out his program.
He's got a school community of over 800 individuals in it.
He's an absolute class act to work with.
I really enjoyed the process of working with him.
He's been our chief financial officer for just over 40 days now.
So continue to stay tuned and see what we build with Zach Ullman at the helm of our
financial department.
Then there's the Water Project.
We do not have any affiliation with the Water Project.
When it came across my radar, though, I decided to meditate on it and think through like,
what would it be like to not have water?
I've always had access to water.
It doesn't matter if I was in Uruguay.
Mexico, elsewhere, I always had access to it.
Never been thirsty in my life.
These kids, these families, the individuals, we're talking about millions of people who
don't know where they're going to get their next glass of water or how they're going to
wash their laundry.
They might be walking three to five miles just to find a source of water for their people.
And this is an opportunity to treat this like a crowdfunding project, right?
Where you get to pick the community that you're going to be helping.
You get to see what they're building.
And when you contribute to it, they will keep you updated on what's happening with that.
So there's eight billion people in this world to help.
So my hope is that if you don't know of another cause that you might contribute to, consider
the fact that these kids celebrate water the way my kids celebrate Christmas Day and the
impact that you get to have on them is enormous.
And it's going to change a community for generations.
My hope is that if you don't have the financial means to give back, that maybe you'll just
share this message with others.
And now Jeremy and I are going to get into helping each one of you.
He was just showing a book though.
So I got to bring him on stage and talk about this book because I thought it had to do with
thirst.
Jeremy, man, thanks for being here on Vision Pros Live with me today.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me.
I love that you're talking water and getting clean water accessible to so many.
It's something I've been a part of for quite a long time as well.
And we can do an episode on that, man.
Dude, let's see that book you were showing.
It's something about thirst, I think.
Yeah.
So this is Thirst, Scott Harrison's book.
He's the founder and CEO of Charity Water.
So they've been doing phenomenal work all around the world in terms of getting clean
accessible water for folks.
But there's something really, really cool that they do differently than any other nonprofit
I've seen that is near impossible, but they manage to do it and do it well.
One of the things you look at when you're evaluating nonprofits to work with is the
expense ratios, right?
How much of each dollar you put in actually gets into the field to the project you want
to support, right?
When people love to rag on larger nonprofits, they'll get bigger and they look at how many
individuals are going to executives and admin and fundraising and all that.
All right.
So fine, we can do the math on that and we can look at expense ratios.
But as you grow, sometimes to get that next step, you do need to do fundraising efforts.
So what Scott did is they actually created the nonprofit to do all the work in the field.
And then they created a separate organization to cover all the back office fundraising,
admin, salaries, and everything.
So they get two kinds of donors.
They get the everyday donors whose money goes to the causes.
Then they get different donors that supports all the ongoing work it takes to run the nonprofit.
So that way, when you look at the actual numbers for the primary nonprofit that's doing all
the work, every dollar in actually goes out to all the causes because they split it out.
And that's really hard to do.
Because other donors are basically saying, can you donate money?
And none of it will go to the cause.
It's just going to the unexciting back office work.
And they've done exactly that.
Right.
And that brings up a really good point regarding the politics, the bureaucracy around nonprofits
and all of that.
At the end of the day, my friends, I'm just going to do what I can do today to help out
the next person, what they're building, while building what I need to build.
I don't really worry too much about it, but I do love to learn about the insights because
it serves as a beacon to guide me on what strategies and processes I need to consider
in order to inspire others to support all the things that we're up to.
So I appreciate you bringing those aspects up.
So Jeremy, tell me about your vision and what it is that you hope other people will accomplish
along your side.
Yeah.
So entrepreneurship has been my entire career.
I've been a serial entrepreneur for over 25 years, always in the service of other entrepreneurs.
And I've seen firsthand, not just for myself, but with clients, with Mastermind members
and so on, just how powerful entrepreneurship can be to finding what we call entrepreneurial
freedom.
That's not something you get with the regular JLB, right?
It's not something you get by hanging your shingle as a solopreneur, but it's something
you can do if you follow the right path towards entrepreneurial freedom as an entrepreneur.
So all of my work is with fellow entrepreneurs.
Absolutely.
So the entrepreneurs that you mentioned earlier too, qualifications, questions that you ask
people, how does somebody know they're ready to engage with your masterminds or engage
with your programs as an entrepreneur?
Yeah.
So my specialty has always been working with existing businesses, right?
That already found that fit, right?
You know what your product is, you know who your customer is, and you have an ongoing
flow of customers coming into the business.
But typically where folks find me is they've plateaued or gotten stuck at some point, right?
It's at that point where they want to get unstuck and break that plateau and start to
stack the S's as we say, and see that next curve of growth.
So we're able to use a very specific process to uncover what that next thing looks like
within the business to help that business owner get unstuck and really turn that faucet
of new revenue, new profits coming into the business, really building on what they've
already built.
So that's the big thing we look for is an existing business.
Ideally, there's already a team in place, even if it's a part-time assistant somewhere
else in the globe, right?
It could be a full-time staff of a dozen folks in office, but a team is really going to help
you get there faster.
If we've got to educate you on why that's important and start that process, that might
be a little premature for the work we do together.
Interesting.
And so speaking of that, so to get into a little bit more granular, so if I've been
stuck at, let's say an entrepreneur has been stuck at $1 for three years, right?
So that's, anybody can kind of justify it.
They qualify to fit in, but what are we looking at more practically speaking?
Well, so we're looking for the steady flow of ongoing customers and revenue.
So it's not $1 one time three years ago, right?
We're looking at you're bringing in a consistent flow of customers into your business.
You have a funnel.
Typically it's one channel that's working well.
So I'll give you an example.
It's not uncommon that a business, for example, might have like a brick and mortar retail
store, right?
So they have walk-in customers who come into the shop, who discover them that way, and
they're, let's say using social media, right?
So they'll find customers who find them on Facebook and Yelp, but they've sort of tapped
that out and they want to expand beyond that.
Or we've worked with e-commerce companies who are doing phenomenal with PPC, their pay
to click advertising, but at some point sort of tap that out.
And now they're looking at how do I add on new channels or get more from my existing
customers?
What's the next thing to do to grow?
So you've got to have that proven sales process and sales channels in place that we can then
build on.
Okay.
And can this be everybody from a restaurateur to B2B sales processes, POS companies?
So niche wise, the phrase I like to use is like, business is business, right?
A lot of times, especially newer business owners like that special snowflake feeling
of like, but my business is different, right?
The reality is a lot of the same mechanics are in place for most all of our businesses.
So if you're B2B or B2C, yeah, how you sell and what the sales cycle looks like, like
those kinds of things for sure, those vary, right?
When you're taking a seven figure sale versus a two figure sale, yes, there's differences,
but a lot of the mechanics and best practices are very similar.
And so I look for a lot of those opportunities for what we call the cross pollination of
ideas where we're able to leverage an idea that one business has and help another business
implement it in a way that works for their industry or their business.
Because we can all go to trade shows and meet more folks like us, right?
But where we find those pivots and those really big big aha moments is when we have that exposure
to either individuals who have a wider range of experience or just other business owners
in different niches that can cross pollinate those ideas.
I love that.
And that shows your depth, right?
Because the variables, right, and the ability, the discipline to sit back and explore the
variables, for instance, normally I won't touch the B2C market, right?
That's not typically a market I would dive into.
However, if I was working with a newer business that was in the process of retail, even if
they weren't profitable, even if they struggled from the financial standpoint, but if they
had on average 200 new retail customers per month, I'd be like, oh, dang.
I know how hard that is to do.
I know that selling bracelets at that magnitude, you have to have tapped into certain truths.
Even if you're not profitable, you're doing a lot of things wrong, you're doing so much
right to have gotten to that point where I know that there's things that I can teach
them and there's things that I can learn from them and that process to benefit.
Whereas on a coaching side, if I meet somebody who's a coach, right, or somebody who has
a legal office and they've only got 10 new clients per month, that's still indicative
of a business that's doing quite well because the profit margins are different, the ticket
value is different, the procedures for ongoing support and the loyalty that exists for retaining
and creating monthly transactions.
There's a lot of variables there.
So I appreciate you being disciplined enough not to box yourself in too much.
I also want to highlight for both of us the reality that as visionaries, those of you
listening in, there are so many people who are going to try to box you in based on the
need to be absolute with these niche definitions and it's just unhealthy.
It's not productive or helpful.
So what else would you add to that, Jeremy?
So I love that you touched on niches because niching is really important and a lot of the
challenges I see growth-wise with entrepreneurs are in this mindset space, right?
And one of them is this fear of niching, right?
This FOMO, this idea that if you say you only work with this one specific niche, you can't
work with anyone else.
Well, just like you were saying, Jackson, you can be a B2B specialist, but with the
right B2C business, just because that's not what you're attracting and looking for doesn't
mean you can't help them, right?
You can refer it, right?
You can help them.
You can provide them additional resources and send them on their way, right?
But if it's a good fit, like that's okay.
We're just helping you to dial in near where that niche is.
Go ahead, you got some more.
Well so, Tad, on what we were saying there, one thing I love, and there's a phrase, is
this idea of small hinges that swing big doors, right?
And if we want to get nerdy in numbers, like we can do, right?
Statistical significance is really important, right?
So if we're testing out a funnel, and I see this kind of thing all the time, someone will
try out an ad campaign and they'll get, you know, 100 impressions, three clicks and no
opt-ins, and they'll call it a failure.
And I'm looking at these numbers, I'm saying that's not a whole lot of numbers we're working
with.
Or they'll test out a whole new funnel, and you know, they'll have no new customers come
out the bottom, right?
And they're already wanting to tweak and experiment and change things, right?
We don't have a proven baseline to iterate on, so that we can do even something as simple
and basic as just an A-B test, right?
When we have a proven baseline, there's so much we can do to see how much we can improve.
Absolutely.
So the variables, the understanding of what we're measuring from reverse engineering,
right?
All these components that, you know, again, if you're a newer visionary or you're a visionary
who hasn't paid a lot of attention to this, then realize that it's okay to work with somebody
who understands these principles.
It's a fact that's a great thing to work with somebody who does.
And the sooner you know how to delegate that to the right person, the sooner you've protected
your brand in ways you otherwise wouldn't.
On the niche side, I'll play devil's advocate.
I freaking hate the niche down argument, like with a passion.
And the big reason why I'm not a fan of it is how niche is Google, how niche is Amazon,
how niche is Disney, right?
And I understand-
Are you looking to create the next Amazon, Google, or Disney?
That's exactly my point is before we dive into the full value of niche, we have to realize
the context that exists around it.
And I know that Jeremy's looking at that from a more altruistic standpoint, whereas a lot
of people in the market that pretend to coach, you know, or pretend to showcase which direction
you should go, they've learned something like the niches or the riches are in the niches
as a tactic to try to win a contract and get you confused or excited about something that's
overly simplistic.
But is there a place for a niching and understanding how to do it?
Of course there is.
Yeah.
I just hate how overhyped the concept is.
So make sure you're using these virtues within the context of the value that you need for
your own vision.
Go ahead.
So the niching can be really valuable.
And the reason so many folks talk about that is you and I have all had the experience of
... I was at an event the other week and I was introduced to someone we get talking and
he's a realtor.
So I'm like, okay, great.
And so I started asking those questions like us good connectors ask, I'm like, great, like,
do you work more with buyers or sellers?
Right.
Oh, well, which neighborhoods do you work in?
Which kind of homes do you specialize in?
First time home buyers, investment properties?
I'm trying to dial in who the perfect customer for this guy is so I can refer him clients
and know who to introduce them to.
Correct.
And every answer I'm getting back is along the lines of, well, really anybody.
I mean, anybody who wants to buy anything I can help.
Yes.
How can I refer business to someone who could just help anyone?
When conversely, I have the quote competitor that I could refer to that has their niche
really dialed in.
So in the same way, if you needed open heart surgery, do you want to go to the general
practitioner who's a family doctor, a veterinarian and a dentist?
Right.
Or do you want to go to the person who all day long, all they do is open heart surgery?
The specialist is always easier to refer to, can command a higher price tag, right?
And is going to win the clients that need that niche thing.
Now little secret.
I disagree though.
And that's okay.
I disagree on it.
And the big reason why is no, it's actually easier to refer to Google or refer to Amazon
and refer to YouTube.
But in the context of what you're talking about, so I can easily say, well, that's a
great thing to look up on YouTube.
We do it all day long with those general practitioners, if you will, that are almost anything to
everybody.
My point isn't though to create a juxtaposition of this is wrong and this is right.
As much as the abundant reality that there's a time and a place for both opportunities.
And to Jeremy's point, yes, in certain circumstances where you know somebody well enough, it's
very helpful to have that niche definition because otherwise how would I refer somebody
to you if I don't know what specifically you're going to help that person with if I've already
uncovered what the specific need is.
But it's context, right?
Right.
Well, the context is entirely there.
And even in your examples, right?
I'd like the Googles, the Amazons and so on.
They can try and be the everything to everyone, but there are absolutely niche categories
of things that if you're looking to buy, it's not going to be on Amazon.
And if you're telling me that what you're looking for is a handcrafted vintage, whatever
this and that, someone's probably going to say, oh, go check Etsy, right?
Versus an Amazon.
Or, you know, if you're looking for really niche educational, you know, that's why the
argument doesn't match up and doesn't need to be there.
It's like, okay, well, if you compare how much Etsy makes compared to what Amazon makes,
you know, it's not even close.
And so, but bigger point being to one of the things you said was that the reason why people
go into niches, I also disagree with the reason.
I think that's one reason why, but I know the bigger reason, one of the bigger reasons
why people go towards niches is because when you niche down, you're simplifying.
And when you're simplifying, simple is easy to sell.
And the get rich quick mindset is go for what's simple and easy and fast.
And now you can be more attractive to more people.
So at the end of the day, a lot of people go that direction because it's a giant battle
for get rich quick.
And again, is that a bad thing?
No, it's not.
But knowing where are we going?
How are we getting there?
What vehicles are we in?
Sometimes I need to jump on a skateboard to get down the street and I'm okay with the
danger that is.
Other times I need my car for when I go on the highway.
All right.
There's different levels and that's why I want you, visionaries, to see these paradigms,
right?
These perspectives for what they are.
Mine's not right.
Derby's isn't right.
They're just paradigms that you can add to how you view things.
And once again, we'd love to see y'all's arguments in the comments for how do you see
it serving you for your visions?
Jeremy, let's shift gears real quick.
I want to ask you, what is the, let's go to the dark side and then the light side.
What's the worst leadership experience that you've ever had?
I can share with you one firsthand that I totally dropped the ball on, but learned from.
So for one of my much earlier companies, as we're scaling that, I had team members and
all, but there are more of the folks in the front line.
And I was getting to that growth point where we start making those really important hires,
right?
Like the people who start interfacing with the clients, handling the sales, you know,
bring more of the executive leadership side of things to the company.
So I brought on our first account exec.
And so all in sort of one motion, we notified our best customers that no longer was I the
point of contact.
They had a new person they'd ever met before.
Oh, and at the same time, because we had to cover those costs, prices were going up quite
a bit, right?
And the people they knew and had had been working with all along, weren't going to be
the ones they worked with.
And so, yeah, it went exactly how you could have, could have imagined that.
I've been there.
I'm guilty.
I'm guilty of this.
So I'm lucky, right?
So we were looking at this as this is, this is natural growth, right?
We're building the team out.
We're bringing on more capacity, right?
This is a more scalable model.
So from a leadership standpoint, internally, I think that was okay.
The external side of it was terribly communicated.
We weren't leading our customers along that journey with us well at all.
And we paid the price for that and learned a lot from that and have not made that same
mistake again since.
Yes, huge, man.
I appreciate you leading from the heart on one of your own experiences too.
You know, there's so many great worst leadership experiences we've all had that we can learn
from, but it's so nice when we can learn from somebody else's mistakes.
So if you're out there, you're like, well, I'm not going to do that.
I would never do it.
You're welcome.
Thank you, Jeremy, for guiding them on that.
So let's move the opposite end of the spectrum.
What's the best leadership experience that you've ever had?
You know, there's different like archetypes of, you know, entrepreneurs, leaders, you
know, even just personality types in general, right?
Like for me, you know, as our listeners can tell, I'm passionate, I'm enthusiastic, right?
If you know, disc profiles, I'm like a capital D, right?
I see there's like not much S in me and that's okay, right?
It's who I am.
So until I understood sort of those different personality types, I would look for people
who ask questions, who engage, who challenge things, because to me that shows passion,
enthusiasm, interest, and so on.
Right.
So there are times where before I knew all this, I'd be looking at folks across the table
in the mastermind room and an idea would come up and the body language is they'd sit back
sort of look off and the body language and everything about it told me they were disengaged,
they weren't getting much from it and it wasn't a good connection.
But then at the following meeting, right, they would be talking up how valuable that
conversation was, how they implemented all those things and why it was the best thing
in the world.
And so I was getting the totally wrong read, not realizing this was the more thoughtful,
the more analytical and so on.
So knowing how to read those was really powerful.
And so I shared that little backstory because, you know, when I look at great leadership,
some entrepreneurs are, you know, are visionaries or listeners or different things.
You know, one of my clients I've worked with for a long time, he is the like the passionate,
hungry sales guy, right, could sell anything to anyone and the passion and enthusiasm is
just always there and he attracts a phenomenal team from, you know, employees to leaders,
to partners, to affiliates, because there's just that that chomping at the bit excitement
and passion that really just rallies everyone around through difficult times as a company,
right, through growth times, through expansion, through contraction, that passion and enthusiasm
is what's kept everyone there all along.
Having a plan and communicating that with enthusiasm.
Who is it?
Do we get to reveal?
Or we don't?
All right.
We won't reveal who's the source of best leadership experience on this one, but we did get some
insight into how they go about it.
And this also insight into not just disc, but I'll expand that to StrengthsFinder 2.0,
right, and Myers-Briggs and Colby.
And so if you're an entrepreneur at scale, right, if you're really building something
that's meant to go above and beyond yourself, then there comes a dynamic opportunity of,
OK, am I going to learn the depths of this leadership information so that I can facilitate
helping others grow through these dynamics that aren't aren't shared for my own paradigm?
Or would it be more wise for me to step into the CVO role, the chief visionary officer
role where you continue to be the face of the company, but perhaps you have somebody
else like an integrator on the end helping them in the process with managing the people
dynamic.
Neither one is right or wrong.
However, I do think there's extreme wisdom in what Jeremy just articulated because I've
felt that transformation and shift myself over the course of like 10.
Let's see, now I started that.
Oh, ouch.
I'm getting old.
15 years ago when I took StrengthsFinder 2.0, it was kind of one of the first times that
I got exposed to that reality and so I realized, man, I've got a long ways to go to figure
this leadership stuff out.
It's a lot.
And they're very smart at Gallup in terms of hiring, in terms of offering.
You can hire executives who consult with you to help bridge those gaps for team players.
And I was like, oh, this is nice.
It's cool.
There's a lot of support in this.
So if you're new to that and the vision spectrum, be aware of this whole world of opportunity
to open at your fingertips.
We're going to shift gears into my favorite question, then we're going to come back to
defining entrepreneurship further.
So favorite question, Jeremy, if this is the last chance you had to speak with everybody
in your life, what powerful lesson can other visionaries learn from your experience?
You don't have to go to loan.
No matter what challenge you're facing, whether it's business, parenting, relationships, finance,
spirituality, whatever it is, right?
Someone else has been there before.
In fact, thousands of others have probably been there before and done it and gotten through
the other side.
So, you know, you can go at it alone and learn it the hard way, but it's far, far more rewarding
to go out on that journey of entrepreneurship or whatever it is with others along the way.
So don't go at it alone.
And you're not alone.
I love that.
And I love the reemphasis too on the final thought point.
You are not alone.
Right.
That is such a true statement.
Even if you feel it right now, my hope is that you will challenge that with the paradigm
that no, actually, Jeremy and I are right here with you.
Our voices are with you.
You can reach out at any time to any either one of us and get help.
I would hate to feel like I'm alone on the journey of life and trying to figure it out.
I hope nobody puts themselves in that situation.
But if you're if you're in that, turn to people who are going to help you realize that you
got help by our side.
You mentioned that as your most most powerful lesson.
I love it 100 percent.
I just want to hear why, though.
Why to you is that the one that means the most?
I've seen, you know, how solopreneurs can burn out and what that means for them, their
family, their lives.
Right.
I've seen people try and do everything right.
Knowing while they're juggling those plates and they're starting to fall that they can't
do it and yet continue to try and, you know, catch all those plates.
So I've also seen the other side of going at it with others, right, whether it be team
members within your business or even just others on their own journey and how powerful
that can be.
And I'm continually surprised every time I face some challenge that seems insurmountable.
And I go to that vulnerable, vulnerable space of sharing with others what's really going
on, how people will come forward and share with you how they have been there.
And you would never have known that part of their story, but they're only sharing it because
you're sharing what's going on.
And the coaching I've gotten, the resources that have been provided, right, the conversations
I've had that have helped me to get through that are so valuable.
And that only comes from opening up about what's really going on, because that's what
starts that, that influx of support that you don't know is there otherwise.
I love it.
I'm going to double down on one of the principles you talked about.
You said thousands of others have done it before and gotten through to the other side.
And I'm not saying one thing that I say is peers matter.
Peers are valuable for sure.
And when it comes to tackling things like business, when it comes to tackling things
like parenting or marriage, right, these are really, really very strong, difficult activities
to engage in.
So grateful for a 93 year old man I heard talking about marriage and in his discourse
a little bit slower, right?
I had to slow down as a young man to hear what he wanted to say.
He said, so many of you young people are turning to your left and your right, your peers, for
trying to figure this marriage thing out.
They don't know any better than you do.
You're all at the same level trying to figure this out.
If you want to figure out how to have a successful marriage, talk to the people who've been married
for 30, 40, 50 years.
And I was like, whoa, like that's some serious wisdom.
So again, he wasn't putting down peers as much as he was opening the paradigm for there's
levels to this thing.
And we certainly want peer support, but how important is it to turn to people who've been
there and done that before?
Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
It's funny you talk about the relationship side.
It brings me right back to around the time that my wife and I got engaged.
And before that, you're out with other friends, many who may not be married and talking down
marriage and talking up the unattached lifestyle and all.
And that's what you hear.
And then the moment I got engaged, that's where all the married friends who'd been quiet
that whole time came forward to pull me aside and tell me how it's the greatest thing, how
it's amazing, how decades of happiness and it's incredible.
And I look at them and thinking, well, where were you like when everyone else was having
this counter perspective, but like by committing and going forward that step, you find everyone
else who says, yeah, like welcome to the club.
So whatever direction you do want to go, take that step towards that.
You'll find that support and be open to, you know, to hearing those stories from others.
Dude, I love that.
That's huge law of attraction.
Right.
And I work with that and it's when there's so many controversial voices, right.
Or when we're in a room or I hadn't experienced that.
I was 21 when I got married.
Right.
So I didn't go through that adulthood of experiences.
I've heard people projected at me, but I never thought about what would that be like to try
to not justify, but to position the value of your life.
You're going to, of course, talk about the pros of your life more than the cons.
If you're a positive, happy, optimistic individual.
And so unless you remove yourself from that room and check the other room out with your
ears open, your mouth shut, you're not going to hear the transition.
That is so powerful to think through.
We often don't even know those other rooms exist.
That's the tricky part in all this.
Sometimes you take that blind step of faith forward in a certain direction and you think
back to Indiana Jones, right.
And stepping over that, that empty abyss and then realizing, oh, there's footing, there's
something here.
There's another room beyond, right.
So whatever direction is that you do want to go, you can commit to that and take confident
steps forward and you will find those resources as you go.
That's huge.
Let's talk more about this defining true entrepreneurship.
I pulled that from one of your write-ups.
I know we're going to have different definitions on this, different languages too.
How do you define true entrepreneurship for you?
Yeah.
So for me, entrepreneurial freedom is all around optionality and freedom of time, right?
You can be a business owner, right?
You can be a small business owner.
You can be a solopreneur, right?
All these things are fine.
But really the defining difference for me between sort of those two chasms, for a listener
who are familiar with Robert Kiyosaki's Cashflow Quadrant, right.
He talks about, you know, you're self-employed, you're employed and on the other side of the
quadrant is your business owner and investor.
And like the chasm between those sides is huge, right.
The test we use is we look at how long can you step away from your business and come
back to still have an operating and ideally thriving business, right?
For most business owners I talked with earlier on, the answer is like days at best to maybe
weeks they can step away from the business, right?
And like that's okay.
That's where most folks start out.
And it's okay to have that kind of business.
But you know, are you building your life to support your business or are you building
your business to support your life, your community, the world at large, your target market and
so on, right?
If you're building the business in service of others, right, that's great because that
means you're not trying to build yourself a job of self-importance and constant toil.
There's nothing wrong with hard work.
You should work hard.
That's a great thing, right?
But it doesn't mean you need to be working 26 hours a day, nine days a week.
I'm glad you said that.
Shout out back again to Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert Kiyosaki on that.
That was one of the big lessons I learned in his book was never work for the sake of
money or you become a slave to the money.
Work for the value of work itself.
And I think a lot of people want to overlook that piece of the puzzle and not understand
that the virtue that exists there.
So again, thanks for diving in on the virtue.
I want to make sure I grasp this.
So one, I love the measuring stick of how long can you step away, you know, right, and
have it and have that business thrive.
Tim Ferriss in the 4-Hour Workweek, right?
He also unlocked and uncovered that and tells a great story in his first few chapters of
that book on the same concepts.
I miss the definition of the true entrepreneur though.
In the processes, I was listening to that.
Do you mind going back over that?
What do you see as that definition?
Yeah.
So I think there's sort of three gates every budding entrepreneur goes through, right?
That separates us from sort of the non-entrepreneurs, right?
The first is as entrepreneurs, we see gaps in the marketplace or opportunities where
others don't.
You might have been accused your whole life of having, you know, what we call, ooh, shiny
syndrome, right?
Well, that's just us seeing those opportunities and gaps in the marketplace.
Others just pass on by.
We see the opportunity.
So that's one.
Two is we think of solutions.
We have ideas for how to do something better, how to serve that gap in the marketplace,
take care of that need and so on, right?
Where others might see the problem and complain about it, we see a solution.
So that's number two.
The third thing, and this is like where most folks fall off the boat, is implementation
and action, right?
We're willing to go forward and actually do something to solve that problem or fill that
need, right?
Others might see the problem and have an idea on how to solve it, right?
And they'll talk about that.
They might be the inventor archetype talking about the better solution, but until there's
actual execution and getting it to market and actually building that to something, you're
not yet an entrepreneur, right?
So if you've checked all three of those boxes, congratulations, you are an entrepreneur.
And that's really huge.
And now sort of the next level of that is, are you able to build that and have the business
not be dependent entirely on you?
Here's what's awesome, Vision Pros.
I won't argue that definition.
That's rare.
That's incredibly, incredibly rare.
So one, see the gaps that others don't.
Two, think of the solutions to resolve it.
And three, implement or act upon that to bridge the gap.
I love that definition.
I'll support that.
True entrepreneurship.
There's depth, of course.
That's the beauty of language, my friends.
Perspective is like, if you look right now in the dictionary online, right?
It goes to Google, look up humility definition.
You're going to see a horrific definition of what humility actually is.
It's not true compared to what it used to be in the context of how most of us are supposed
to associate with that virtue.
It says it's a low self-esteem or a low view of oneself.
That's a horrible definition of that word.
So why does that matter?
It's hard to be intentional if we don't know the value and understand the purpose of the
words that we use, right?
If you grew up in a home that's trauma induced and all hate and abuse, and they tend to use
the word love as a mechanism to manipulate you, you may grow up with a very skewed view
of what love actually is and how you actually correlate to it in the world.
Well, my feeling is the same regarding words like entrepreneurship.
And I'm very careful about whose definitions I allow to influence how words get defined.
Jeremy, that is a masterful definition of the word entrepreneurship.
And it serves as a checklist for myself to remember, am I being entrepreneurial?
Oh, I'm seeing gaps.
Oh, I'm thinking of solutions, but wait, I'm not willing to act and change it.
No, I'm not.
I'm being a victim.
And not every idea is brilliant, right?
Not every idea is sustainable.
There are some business ideas, like we've all got books of these things, right?
We've got notebooks full of ideas.
There are some ideas that when you look at how it could be, you realize, ah, there's
not really a business there.
Or you think of a solution, but there's no gap, right?
So that's your point, right?
It's not necessarily in order, but these are three mechanisms I can use as kind of a metric
to see how well am I leading, at least in the entrepreneurial space.
And those of you out there who have variations of this definition, again, feel free to share
with us what that looks like, because the more well-rounded we become on how we define
these value points, especially something as important as the role of entrepreneurship,
the better we can become about performing the role.
So you're going to see below this episode, for those of you who are listening in, look
at the action steps.
You're going to be able to connect with Jeremy and see where we can find him on social media,
what resources he has available for you.
Below that, you'll see the other resources associated with the show.
And we can't wait to have you guys on future episodes of the show.
If you're a visionary leader, if this inspired you, then you're the type of person we would
love to interview.
In the top right corner up there, you're going to see a button that says, be our guest.
Jeremy, you blow my mind.
This is super awesome.
I look forward to hosting you on the beyourbestshow.com.
If you're interested, we'll come back and do another round where we dive in deeper into
all the things you're doing for this planet.
Love it.
I appreciate you inviting me on.
This was a ton of fun and thanks for having such a great community, asking such great
questions like we were talking about earlier on in the episode and being so well-prepared
for a great show.
Thanks for what you do.
Absolutely.
We'll see you guys on the next episode.
Take care, everybody.
Bye-bye.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show.
And thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a...