1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,340 Tell me about your vision. 2 00:00:02,420 --> 00:00:05,220 Okay, so my vision, I'm in technology 3 00:00:05,220 --> 00:00:08,180 and my vision is really about technology. 4 00:00:08,180 --> 00:00:10,900 So technology is on an exponential growth path 5 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:12,700 and that's what I really believe it's going. 6 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:14,100 We see all these developments, 7 00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:16,060 but that's a development that's been going on 8 00:00:16,060 --> 00:00:19,100 since the 1940s, 50s of last century 9 00:00:19,100 --> 00:00:21,060 and it's going faster and faster developments. 10 00:00:21,060 --> 00:00:22,920 And I think AI is our next step. 11 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,340 And what we will probably see is that 12 00:00:25,340 --> 00:00:27,700 that development is gonna go faster. 13 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:30,020 And I think there's gonna be a bigger divide. 14 00:00:30,020 --> 00:00:31,780 So we have the number of people 15 00:00:31,780 --> 00:00:34,140 that actually understand that technology 16 00:00:34,140 --> 00:00:35,380 is probably decreasing. 17 00:00:35,380 --> 00:00:36,900 I mean, a lot of people can use AI, 18 00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:39,260 but the people that truly understand how it works 19 00:00:39,260 --> 00:00:40,920 is decreasing. 20 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,660 And the impact that technology has 21 00:00:43,660 --> 00:00:45,660 on people's lives is increasing, right? 22 00:00:45,660 --> 00:00:48,940 So almost everybody these days uses AI. 23 00:00:48,940 --> 00:00:50,820 There's not a big difference between age groups. 24 00:00:50,820 --> 00:00:52,760 So even boomers use a lot of AI 25 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,020 all the way down to the gen Z's, they all use AI. 26 00:00:57,020 --> 00:00:59,460 And I think that's a gap that we need to bridge. 27 00:00:59,460 --> 00:01:02,020 And I think technology and especially technology leaders 28 00:01:02,020 --> 00:01:03,940 play a really big role in that. 29 00:01:03,940 --> 00:01:05,740 I do think that that requires a step. 30 00:01:05,740 --> 00:01:07,220 So for people in technology, 31 00:01:07,220 --> 00:01:09,740 they're often really good at the tech side of it. 32 00:01:11,260 --> 00:01:13,540 Their social skills and their leadership skills 33 00:01:13,540 --> 00:01:16,540 often require development or growth. 34 00:01:16,540 --> 00:01:17,900 And I think this is the challenge. 35 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:20,300 We need technical leaders in this society 36 00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:23,480 and in our businesses that have a very deep understanding 37 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,820 of AI and technology on one side. 38 00:01:26,820 --> 00:01:27,660 And on the other hand, 39 00:01:27,660 --> 00:01:30,580 also have a very deep understanding of business, 40 00:01:30,580 --> 00:01:32,820 of people, of stakeholder management, 41 00:01:32,820 --> 00:01:35,820 of convincing people, of talking to people 42 00:01:35,820 --> 00:01:39,300 and solving business problems and even business finances. 43 00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:40,980 And I think that's the challenge that I see. 44 00:01:40,980 --> 00:01:43,060 And that's also why I do what I do. 45 00:01:43,060 --> 00:01:48,060 I coach tech leaders and I really coach them on this growth 46 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:50,660 that they take the technical knowledge that they have 47 00:01:50,660 --> 00:01:52,900 and actually learn how to apply that in businesses, 48 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:55,060 manage a team, manage stakeholders 49 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:56,740 and help their businesses grow. 50 00:01:58,260 --> 00:02:01,580 Tell me more about the side when you mentioned 51 00:02:01,580 --> 00:02:05,700 that they need to know both the technological side 52 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:07,360 and deep knowledge of technology 53 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,740 and what do you mean exactly by that? 54 00:02:09,740 --> 00:02:12,740 And then the other side, the leadership side of it. 55 00:02:14,260 --> 00:02:18,500 Yes, so in technology, and I mean, we all know about AI, 56 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:20,260 but there is so much more. 57 00:02:20,260 --> 00:02:21,860 And I can give you some examples. 58 00:02:21,860 --> 00:02:25,140 So I do a lot of, I'd say more simple technical work. 59 00:02:25,140 --> 00:02:27,500 So we do a lot of software development as well, 60 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:30,180 like website development, app development. 61 00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:32,500 And sometimes I ask the question to a developer, 62 00:02:32,500 --> 00:02:34,700 can you explain to me how that all works? 63 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:36,940 Like how a request goes from someone's phone 64 00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:38,500 all the way to a backend server 65 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:41,780 and just tell me all the little steps in between. 66 00:02:41,780 --> 00:02:43,460 And a lot of developers understand 67 00:02:43,460 --> 00:02:45,740 how they build a web application, 68 00:02:45,740 --> 00:02:48,340 but they don't understand the underlying technology, 69 00:02:48,340 --> 00:02:50,260 how the internet works, how the routing works, 70 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:51,900 how the app on the phone works, 71 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:53,400 how JavaScript is executed. 72 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,940 There's a lot of technical details there 73 00:02:55,940 --> 00:02:58,980 that even web developers often don't understand 74 00:02:58,980 --> 00:03:00,500 and can't explain. 75 00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:03,460 So I think it's really important for people in technology 76 00:03:03,460 --> 00:03:06,620 to not just understand the one part that they're working on, 77 00:03:06,620 --> 00:03:09,580 like the one AI model or the one web technology 78 00:03:09,580 --> 00:03:11,820 or the one application development model, 79 00:03:11,820 --> 00:03:14,020 but to really have a very deep understanding 80 00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:15,860 of the underlying layers as well. 81 00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:17,780 So that's for me the technology side. 82 00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:22,440 And people need to invest time and energy to learn that. 83 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:23,620 That's one. 84 00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:26,700 And on the other side, people like that, 85 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,140 especially the people that love technology, 86 00:03:29,140 --> 00:03:30,880 spend a lot of time behind the keyboards 87 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,580 and not necessarily talking to people. 88 00:03:33,580 --> 00:03:35,980 At some point they will become a team lead 89 00:03:35,980 --> 00:03:39,660 or a senior developer or even a CTO or a CIO, 90 00:03:39,660 --> 00:03:42,320 and they suddenly require a very different skillset. 91 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,620 They need to manage a team, they need to hire a team, 92 00:03:44,620 --> 00:03:47,860 they need to figure out how to make that team work together. 93 00:03:47,860 --> 00:03:50,140 That's on the internal side and on the other side, 94 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:52,300 they need to, they have stakeholders. 95 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:53,940 They suddenly have a head of sales 96 00:03:53,940 --> 00:03:55,700 that they need to speak to or head of products 97 00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:58,220 or a head of customer support. 98 00:03:58,220 --> 00:04:01,140 And they need to be able to manage all the stakeholders, 99 00:04:01,140 --> 00:04:04,540 to talk to them, to explain to them what technology can do, 100 00:04:04,540 --> 00:04:08,140 what it's capable of, and together, 101 00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:10,740 actually work together with them to solve business problems. 102 00:04:10,740 --> 00:04:13,980 So AI is a very nice set of tools, 103 00:04:13,980 --> 00:04:15,460 but it doesn't do anything on its own. 104 00:04:15,460 --> 00:04:17,300 You need to apply it to a business problem. 105 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:19,740 So the technology person needs to understand 106 00:04:19,740 --> 00:04:21,660 those two sides, the technology, 107 00:04:21,660 --> 00:04:24,820 what kind of technology do, the business side of things. 108 00:04:24,820 --> 00:04:27,060 So what are the problems that sales is having 109 00:04:27,060 --> 00:04:29,940 and wants to solve or customer support or finance, 110 00:04:31,020 --> 00:04:33,500 and have a discussion, have a useful discussion 111 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:35,620 with those sales leaders, the finance leaders, 112 00:04:35,620 --> 00:04:38,760 and the customer support leaders in that organization. 113 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,440 And I think those are two very different skillsets 114 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,420 and you need to grow both. 115 00:04:43,420 --> 00:04:46,820 I understand the second one very easily, 116 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:48,780 but I'm having a hard time understanding 117 00:04:48,780 --> 00:04:50,340 what do you mean by the first one. 118 00:04:50,340 --> 00:04:53,100 So according to, I mean, I'm a software developer, 119 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:54,100 by the way, if you didn't know that, 120 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:57,740 I can develop websites and I'm on my path 121 00:04:57,740 --> 00:05:00,780 to becoming, learning more and more leadership skills. 122 00:05:01,860 --> 00:05:06,860 But if a software developer or a marketing guy 123 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:12,580 or a website developer is really good at website, 124 00:05:12,580 --> 00:05:14,980 for him to get to know how the internet work, 125 00:05:14,980 --> 00:05:16,900 like how the networking part work, 126 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:18,820 how will your data would transfer from packets 127 00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:21,180 to go to this router to that and that and that, 128 00:05:21,180 --> 00:05:24,040 and then go in the air and then go that way. 129 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,020 For them to be expert in that field 130 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:28,540 or even have consistent amount of knowledge in that, 131 00:05:28,540 --> 00:05:32,140 that will take years of experience. 132 00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:36,300 And it's gonna be, to me, more like, 133 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:39,540 it's like jack of all trades and master of none 134 00:05:39,540 --> 00:05:40,620 kind of situation. 135 00:05:40,620 --> 00:05:43,960 So help me explain what do you mean by that and why. 136 00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:48,220 So if you're, and if you're a software developer, 137 00:05:48,220 --> 00:05:52,100 I think it's still okay that you know the one scale, 138 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:54,540 the one trade, right, to be able to front end developer, 139 00:05:54,540 --> 00:05:57,260 to have all the knowledge on Reactor Next or whatever, 140 00:05:57,260 --> 00:05:59,460 or to be a backend developer and be a Python developer 141 00:05:59,460 --> 00:06:00,500 or a JavaScript developer. 142 00:06:00,500 --> 00:06:02,900 I think it's fine if you're still at that point. 143 00:06:03,940 --> 00:06:06,860 Although even there, you get to discussions like, 144 00:06:06,860 --> 00:06:09,420 how do I make sure that my app performs? 145 00:06:09,420 --> 00:06:12,340 You get to things like CDNs and do you understand 146 00:06:12,340 --> 00:06:14,980 what a CDN, like a content delivery network, 147 00:06:14,980 --> 00:06:16,900 what that is and how that works. 148 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:18,820 So you already start to get into like, 149 00:06:18,820 --> 00:06:19,780 how does the internet work? 150 00:06:19,780 --> 00:06:23,180 What is a CDN and how do I optimize my delivery? 151 00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:24,700 So that is actually fast. 152 00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:26,960 And that's, I mean, that's the first scale. 153 00:06:27,940 --> 00:06:32,620 If you're working as a CTO and you're trying to address 154 00:06:32,620 --> 00:06:35,380 business problems, you need to have an understanding 155 00:06:35,380 --> 00:06:37,500 of what's available out there. 156 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:39,380 So what are the tools that are out there? 157 00:06:39,380 --> 00:06:42,020 What are the available options that we have out there? 158 00:06:42,020 --> 00:06:44,980 I mean, you're going to talk to a sales person 159 00:06:44,980 --> 00:06:47,380 and that sales person doesn't understand technology. 160 00:06:47,380 --> 00:06:49,780 All that they understand is their sales process, 161 00:06:49,780 --> 00:06:51,660 their customers, and those customers may be all 162 00:06:51,660 --> 00:06:55,020 across the world and they have a sales problem, 163 00:06:55,020 --> 00:06:56,260 perhaps that they wanna solve. 164 00:06:56,260 --> 00:06:58,980 I think it's then up to the CTO to say, 165 00:06:58,980 --> 00:07:00,840 that's interesting. 166 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:02,780 There are different solutions that we can talk about. 167 00:07:02,780 --> 00:07:06,180 We can talk about a Salesforce or another CRM solution 168 00:07:06,180 --> 00:07:09,020 and we can talk about a front end and a backend 169 00:07:09,020 --> 00:07:12,380 and we can do a custom build or we can do off the shelf 170 00:07:12,380 --> 00:07:13,340 that we can customize it. 171 00:07:13,340 --> 00:07:14,900 There are so many different options 172 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:17,280 that that business has to choose from. 173 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,220 It's the role of the CTO to help the business 174 00:07:20,220 --> 00:07:21,900 make those decisions. 175 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:25,040 To be able to do that, you need quite a broad set 176 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,460 of knowledge because that sales, the next person is financed 177 00:07:28,460 --> 00:07:33,460 or customer supports or the supply chain or the delivery. 178 00:07:33,460 --> 00:07:35,740 So a CTO needs to have those discussions 179 00:07:35,740 --> 00:07:36,860 and bridge that gap. 180 00:07:36,860 --> 00:07:39,420 And I think that's why he also needs that other side, 181 00:07:39,420 --> 00:07:42,420 that deep understanding of what's available out there. 182 00:07:42,420 --> 00:07:43,700 And of course he can reach out. 183 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:45,500 I mean, no CTO can know everything, 184 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:48,540 but still let's say we talk about sales, 185 00:07:48,540 --> 00:07:50,540 he needs to have a basic understanding of what's out there. 186 00:07:50,540 --> 00:07:51,740 He also needs to have a network 187 00:07:51,740 --> 00:07:53,620 with somebody that may understand Salesforce 188 00:07:53,620 --> 00:07:56,160 or HubSpot or some of the other CRMs out there. 189 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:59,940 And I think that that's the role of the CTO. 190 00:07:59,940 --> 00:08:03,940 So your program is designed for CTOs 191 00:08:04,780 --> 00:08:06,280 to develop in their leadership skills 192 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,220 and their knowledge and technological skills. 193 00:08:09,220 --> 00:08:12,660 So they're able to perform their CTO duties well. 194 00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:14,500 Yes, absolutely. 195 00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:17,660 My program focuses more on the leadership skills 196 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:20,460 because I think most of the CTOs that I've seen 197 00:08:20,460 --> 00:08:22,860 and that I've worked with really have already 198 00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:24,660 five, 10, 15 years of experience 199 00:08:24,660 --> 00:08:27,340 and I have broadened their technical knowledge already. 200 00:08:27,340 --> 00:08:29,900 I do always, I mean, everybody that I work with, 201 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:33,100 I try to motivate and inspire to just continue 202 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:35,540 to tinker with new stuff, to try new stuff out 203 00:08:35,540 --> 00:08:38,780 and just continue to play with the technology. 204 00:08:38,780 --> 00:08:40,900 And I really focus on that other part, 205 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:42,780 the leadership skills. 206 00:08:42,780 --> 00:08:44,300 Yeah, so developing a vision. 207 00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:46,780 And I think that's why I also love this podcast. 208 00:08:46,780 --> 00:08:49,220 I mean, CTOs need to have a vision 209 00:08:49,220 --> 00:08:50,980 how technology can help their business 210 00:08:50,980 --> 00:08:53,860 and help the business grow and solve business problems. 211 00:08:53,860 --> 00:08:56,780 Being bold, being bold in their business. 212 00:08:56,780 --> 00:08:59,180 So not just waiting for somebody to come over to them 213 00:08:59,180 --> 00:09:02,340 and ask a question, but actually being bold 214 00:09:02,340 --> 00:09:04,620 and approaching other people in the business 215 00:09:04,620 --> 00:09:07,180 and together working on solving those problems, 216 00:09:07,180 --> 00:09:09,060 those business problems. 217 00:09:09,060 --> 00:09:12,760 And really being that technology vision for the company. 218 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:15,540 Thank you for sharing that. 219 00:09:15,540 --> 00:09:18,400 I'm now more intrigued. 220 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:23,400 This is not a common niche to be in, Mark. 221 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:28,380 It's a very unique and a very different 222 00:09:28,380 --> 00:09:29,500 but I've heard before. 223 00:09:30,780 --> 00:09:32,020 So where did this come from? 224 00:09:32,020 --> 00:09:33,500 Like, how did you end up in this field 225 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:36,740 and how did the process of training CTOs? 226 00:09:38,140 --> 00:09:40,180 So I'm a techie by heart. 227 00:09:40,180 --> 00:09:43,420 So I started, I've been in technology for 30 years 228 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:46,140 and I started my career in infrastructure. 229 00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:47,180 I'm not a software developer. 230 00:09:47,180 --> 00:09:48,900 I'm an infrastructure engineer by trade. 231 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:50,540 And that's how I started my career. 232 00:09:50,540 --> 00:09:54,500 Unix, Windows, DBA, accrued into architecture, 233 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:57,340 project management and into senior leadership roles. 234 00:09:57,340 --> 00:10:00,060 So I've grown from being that hardcore techie 235 00:10:00,060 --> 00:10:02,580 that spends like 40 hours, 50 hours, 60 hours a week 236 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:04,860 behind their PC and then even on the weekends 237 00:10:04,860 --> 00:10:08,540 tinkering with stuff into a senior leadership role 238 00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:12,040 where I led large teams, global international teams. 239 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,380 And over the years, I've learned so much 240 00:10:14,380 --> 00:10:17,020 about the leadership skill. 241 00:10:17,020 --> 00:10:19,620 And I've had coaches myself, I've had coaches over the year 242 00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:22,520 that were either given to me by my employer 243 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,780 and even now I still pay for my own coach 244 00:10:24,780 --> 00:10:26,720 because I think it's incredibly valuable 245 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,500 to have somebody that helps you, 246 00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:30,940 that coaches you along the way. 247 00:10:30,940 --> 00:10:33,180 I've had my own coaching training 248 00:10:33,180 --> 00:10:34,860 and that actually came from the fact 249 00:10:34,860 --> 00:10:37,280 that I was in a leadership role 250 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:38,900 and always people would come up to me and say, 251 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:42,420 Mark, I've had this feedback from my manager. 252 00:10:42,420 --> 00:10:43,540 What should I do about that? 253 00:10:43,540 --> 00:10:46,780 Or Mark, I'm thinking about changing jobs. 254 00:10:46,780 --> 00:10:47,620 Can you help me? 255 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:48,520 Can you advise me? 256 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,800 And what should I do next? 257 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,140 And out of my job, those are actually the discussions 258 00:10:53,140 --> 00:10:54,940 that I really loved having. 259 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:57,060 So people that want to take 260 00:10:57,060 --> 00:10:58,800 or are thinking about those kinds of decisions 261 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,060 or those kinds of challenges with their career 262 00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:02,340 don't know where to go next 263 00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:04,680 and are really looking for some outside support, 264 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:07,860 somebody to brainstorm with, somebody to bounce ideas off 265 00:11:07,860 --> 00:11:09,940 and to have that discussion like, what can I do next 266 00:11:09,940 --> 00:11:11,660 and how do I get there? 267 00:11:11,660 --> 00:11:13,780 And that's the part that I started loving more and more 268 00:11:13,780 --> 00:11:16,360 and that's why I started my training as a coach. 269 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,380 And that's how I rolled into this. 270 00:11:19,380 --> 00:11:20,780 Thank you for sharing that. 271 00:11:20,780 --> 00:11:25,780 And what would you say, Mark, is the why of what you do? 272 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:33,780 The why of what I do, if I boil it down to one thing, 273 00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:38,180 I think technology is amazing, but with technology, 274 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:41,460 we often forget about the human being side of it. 275 00:11:41,460 --> 00:11:43,900 So we, and I see this all the time, right? 276 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:48,820 We use AI because we can then deflect customer inquiries. 277 00:11:48,820 --> 00:11:51,260 So we don't actually have to talk to our customers anymore. 278 00:11:51,260 --> 00:11:53,660 We can use AI to talk to our customers 279 00:11:53,660 --> 00:11:55,780 or, and those kinds of things. 280 00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:59,100 And that's really where I, what I want to stand for 281 00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:02,340 is that we put the human at the center of everything, 282 00:12:02,340 --> 00:12:04,280 even in technology, even in big companies 283 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,260 like OpenAI and Google. 284 00:12:06,260 --> 00:12:07,900 I mean, it's all about the people 285 00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:08,940 and the people that work there 286 00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:11,420 and the people that work on these amazing models. 287 00:12:11,420 --> 00:12:12,900 The same on the people that use it. 288 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:17,240 It really is about the people that use the technology. 289 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,640 And that's the most important part to me. 290 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:26,500 What would you say is, 291 00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:30,300 with AI coming into the technological space 292 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:35,100 and growing so fast, is a concern using that? 293 00:12:37,860 --> 00:12:39,940 I think there's a lot of concerns, 294 00:12:39,940 --> 00:12:43,560 and especially when we started hitting an AGI model. 295 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:45,060 I don't know if you've ever read the book, 296 00:12:45,060 --> 00:12:47,100 Singularity by Ray Kurzweil. 297 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:48,740 It's a very interesting book, 298 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:51,700 and it talks about what happens when AI gets 299 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:53,740 to the point where AI can actually improve itself 300 00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:54,580 and develop itself. 301 00:12:54,580 --> 00:12:57,380 And it's a very interesting thing, 302 00:12:57,380 --> 00:12:58,900 if and when that happens, 303 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:01,020 but I think that's still quite a bit out. 304 00:13:01,020 --> 00:13:05,300 I think for now, the concern is that it's moving so fast 305 00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:07,660 that people are really struggling to keep up. 306 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:09,700 So the number of people that are keeping up 307 00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:11,540 with what happens every day, 308 00:13:11,540 --> 00:13:12,700 the new models that come out, 309 00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:16,020 the advancements in the models, all the changes, 310 00:13:16,020 --> 00:13:17,700 that number of people is shrinking. 311 00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:20,140 And I think that that's the biggest concern that I have, 312 00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:22,780 is that we're leaving a lot of people behind in this, 313 00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:24,700 because technology is going so fast 314 00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:25,860 that people can't keep up. 315 00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:28,100 And I think that really is my biggest concern. 316 00:13:29,260 --> 00:13:34,260 And what would you say that if someone wants to combat that, 317 00:13:34,460 --> 00:13:35,820 what would they do? 318 00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:37,380 How do they keep up with it? 319 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:43,500 Yeah, so, and that's an interesting question. 320 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:47,000 So first of all, I think that there's, 321 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,840 and this is not a nice thing to say, 322 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:49,880 but in my experience, 323 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,240 there are two types of people that I've worked with. 324 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,400 There's people that really just love working from nine to five 325 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,800 and at five, they go home 326 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,080 and they're basically ready for the weekend 327 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,880 and they start to do other stuff. 328 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,080 They don't spend time in technology tinkering 329 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,160 with what happens and what comes out. 330 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,680 They don't read the news, they don't stay up to date, 331 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:11,860 they don't listen to tech podcasts, 332 00:14:11,860 --> 00:14:12,800 they don't do any of that. 333 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,480 They just are okay with their job 334 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,180 and doing the job as well as they can. 335 00:14:17,180 --> 00:14:18,680 And that's okay, 336 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:22,120 but technology is really going faster and faster. 337 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,400 And I think the other set of people 338 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,080 is the people that really love tinkering 339 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,000 and playing with their stuff 340 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,860 and that have their hobby projects 341 00:14:27,860 --> 00:14:30,680 and they just download a new AI model from hugging face, 342 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,300 deploy it and see if they can get it to work. 343 00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,280 And I think really we need to get more people 344 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:36,240 to that second space. 345 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,440 People that really tinker with stuff, 346 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:39,680 people that try stuff out 347 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,120 and people that keep themselves up to date. 348 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,400 I think that's one. 349 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,440 And I think the other one is 350 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,820 how do we get everyone else along on the journey? 351 00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:52,200 And I think that that's a really hard and challenging one. 352 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,840 I think, I hope that over time AI becomes simpler, 353 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,160 but the technology is so incredibly complex 354 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:03,160 that it's really difficult to use correctly right now. 355 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,600 And I think we see all these trainings online 356 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,820 and we see all these courses online, 357 00:15:07,820 --> 00:15:10,200 but still I think we're leaving a lot of people behind. 358 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,360 I don't have a perfect answer for that one. 359 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,200 No, that's fine. 360 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,560 It was just, I came up with that question. 361 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:16,920 I went off the script. 362 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,920 But if, do you believe that if more people are not trained 363 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,360 and they don't take time to use AI to their advantage 364 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,720 or learn these technologies to their best, 365 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,880 that for some way or the other, 366 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,180 they would be replaced by the same AI? 367 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:38,180 I think maybe replaced by AI is not the same word, 368 00:15:38,180 --> 00:15:40,860 but at some point their skills, 369 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:43,060 their knowledge become obsolete. 370 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:45,460 And I think that's the bigger risk if you're in technology 371 00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:48,100 and you can already see how fast all the, 372 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:49,420 you're a software developer, 373 00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:51,100 how fast all the coding models go. 374 00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:55,660 So how fast a year ago we had hardly any models 375 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:57,420 that could properly code software. 376 00:15:57,420 --> 00:15:59,220 And we've come to right now 377 00:15:59,220 --> 00:16:02,580 where we have a lot of different tools like Cursor, 378 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:05,860 that are really very good at developing software. 379 00:16:05,860 --> 00:16:07,020 And that's been a year. 380 00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:08,580 So you can't imagine what can happen 381 00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:10,460 in another two or three or four years 382 00:16:10,460 --> 00:16:12,060 and where these models get to. 383 00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:15,300 If you're a front end developer, 384 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:17,700 I would really spend time making sure 385 00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:19,300 that I stay up to date with all these models. 386 00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:22,460 So I know what's going on and I have a skillset 387 00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:26,060 that is still usable in 26, 27, 28. 388 00:16:26,060 --> 00:16:28,620 If I just focus right now on my front end skills 389 00:16:28,620 --> 00:16:29,980 and getting better at it, 390 00:16:29,980 --> 00:16:33,140 I'm not sure that that's how long 391 00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:34,820 you're gonna be able to do that. 392 00:16:34,820 --> 00:16:36,300 Thank you for being here today. 393 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:38,740 I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. 394 00:16:38,740 --> 00:16:41,380 I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions 395 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:43,620 as these episodes continue to move forward. 396 00:16:43,620 --> 00:16:45,420 This is gonna get more and more fun. 397 00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:47,260 We'll have more and more engagement as well. 398 00:16:47,260 --> 00:16:49,220 We'll invite people to participate in the show 399 00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:51,660 and thank you for giving us your time and attention. 400 00:16:51,660 --> 00:16:54,460 Have an excellent time building out your vision 401 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:56,260 and becoming a Vision Pro yourself. 402 00:16:56,260 --> 00:17:01,260 Thank you.