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John, you mentioned the last time me and you talked that when you were trying to achieve

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your vision and your goal, you had a lot of political setbacks.

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What were some of the things that you faced and how did you overcome them?

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Well, I was, I think, rather naive when I said that my wife and I would like to open

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our home and help people who are homeless and then particularly coming from prison.

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We thought with low-risk offenders coming back to the community that it would be welcomed

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as a positive social action.

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And what happened was it was immediately faced with neighbors who were very concerned that

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we're going to be bringing whatever those people are into the community.

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And there were petitions passed, there were meetings with the council, there were very

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heated threats, there were letters to the editor.

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For one year, I was the number one news article in the local newspaper.

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And it was, their ordinances passed, letters to the editor, a little 10-year-old girl wrote

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to the newspaper saying she was afraid to go to school because my house was in her neighborhood.

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And that's the sort of fear-mongering.

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It's very similar to what is being experienced in Springfield, Ohio now, which is actually

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only an hour's drive away from here, where small rural towns have a tendency to think

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that issues are in the big cities among minorities.

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But what was statistically, all the issues in prison are predominantly white.

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We like to think it's somebody else, but with drugs now in particular, it's not just those

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people, it's my people, it's my cousins, it's my children.

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Or now we find it's even my parents with prescription medication that has gone into addiction, which

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led to heroin.

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We found that addiction is not an equal opportunity offender, it strikes everybody.

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And what that did was it brought home what we were doing much closer to home, to our

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neighbors.

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And eventually, initially I tried to bring the data in and say, if you look at the statistics,

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and I had reams of data that I brought to the council meeting, and we would present

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the facts and the cost-saving effects, but nobody heard that.

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It was purely an emotional fear response, very much like we're seeing in today's politics.

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So what I determined, that I was not going to get into the name calling, I wasn't going

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to get into accusations, I wasn't going to defend myself, I was simply going to stay

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within the law, do what the law allowed me to do, but do it in a way that was a good

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neighbor.

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The most notable example was that we, in winter, when the snow came and covered the streets

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and sidewalks, I took my snow blower and plowed everybody's sidewalk on the block, and I made

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sure that my neighborhood looked better than it had before the storm, and I never said

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a word.

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Now, nobody said a word back to me, but over time, they noticed that we were not causing

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the problems, our residents were quiet, we were not creating the issues, and also, we

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ended up suing the city three times.

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So there's one thing to be a good neighbor, but sometimes you have to be a good legal

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scholar too.

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And we won, and ultimately, what happened was the ordinances that were passed were rescinded,

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and we began to operate one, two, and three houses.

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And ultimately, we moved most of our operation into nearby Dayton, which is a much, much

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larger city, and because they are much more aware of these issues in the city than they

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are in small towns, they actually welcomed us with open arms, and that's when we grew

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to 19 homes, when we actually were in three counties right now.

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But it took seven years, and there were days when the conflict was at its worst, that I

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would go to the local restaurant and have a private conversation, somebody would overhear

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it, and I'd see that conversation on Facebook that afternoon, and they always twisted it.

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And that's why in today's political climate, I understand perfectly what some of our politicians

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feel when everything they say gets twisted and turned by people who are just afraid.

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Wow.

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I can't imagine the fight you fought for.

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I had police protection at one meeting.

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That's amazing.

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Wow.

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Yeah, it was very, very intense.

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Now, in my novel, I use this as an example, a fictionalized example, but it's based on

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some reality of what, anytime you have prison issues, and anytime it's in the community,

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the attitude is, not in my backyard.

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And that's why we said, put them in prison, lock them up, give them life sentences.

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I had an attorney tell me that, just put them somewhere else.

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And of course, somewhere else is somebody else's neighborhood.

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So it's an emotional response.

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People don't want it.

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People don't want to deal with it.

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That's exactly right.

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Exactly.

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And what we found in 1980s, when we decided to get tough on drugs, which made sense at

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one point, because drugs seemed to be running rampant.

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And we said, 10-year sentences, 20-year sentences, life sentences, and some of them were for

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minor drug issues.

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And what we did was, we filled the prisons, then we built more prisons, then we built

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more prisons.

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But eventually, all those people come home.

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And when they come home, they're coming without any skills, they're coming without any training,

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they're coming without any support.

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So now we're back, not to the beginning, we're back to before the beginning.

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We're in the hole.

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And that's where we changed our attitude in Ohio, instead of locking them up, we tried

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to see if we can keep people in the community so they have support, and then they have a

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job, and they have the ability to pay taxes and child support.

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And everybody benefits if somebody has a job and a place to live.

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And that's how we're able to be successful.

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Now, dang, that's what you have done, John, I commend you for that.

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I want to talk now about the business side of things.

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How did you take this model, and when your wife was working and supporting you and the

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family, how did you take that part and make it to a business that actually supports you

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and the family now?

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And what was that journey like?

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Well, I'd been in construction business, so I knew how to operate a small business, much

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smaller than we had here.

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So I knew enough about construction to buy a house and fix up an old place.

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So the market was very slow when we started expanding.

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It was in 2008.

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So I was able to find houses that were costing $20,000 or $30,000 for a duplex.

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And we were able to renovate them.

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It took time and it took a lot of sweat, but we're able to renovate them by using our labor

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instead of having a lot of money.

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And we also, what little money we had, we invested our personal funds into this.

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So when my wife got a small inheritance from her parents when they passed, we put that

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into Good Samaritan home rather than use it for ourselves.

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And I had no salary for five years.

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We lived on my wife's McDonald's management income.

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And we lived in a house under construction while we're doing all this for 14 years.

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Our first house was constantly under construction, even while we're trying to do the other houses

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that we were remodeling.

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So it was, in fact, I gave my wife a wonderful Christmas present.

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I gave her a table saw, so you can imagine, because we needed that for the work.

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And it was not uncommon to walk through the house with wires hanging, insulation hanging,

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because we were always under construction.

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But what I did was, in the beginning, I contacted an accountant, I contacted an attorney, and

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I had them help me walk through the legal issues.

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And what we do is that all my finances are run through the accountant to make sure that

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everything is completely above board, because we became a legal nonprofit corporation.

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And that means we're scrutinized in a different way by the IRS.

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So we had to make sure that we do everything above board.

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And so the money doesn't come to me that we get for our work.

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It comes to the corporation through the accountants.

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And I get a salary like everybody else does.

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That's awesome.

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And how long until this was sustaining your family?

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We started legally in 2001.

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IRS approved us in 2003.

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And it was five years.

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So that would make it probably 2008, when we were able to get a small contract with

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the Ohio Department of Corrections to house homeless men coming from prison.

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We had a contract for four beds, and they paid us per diem, because we charge nothing

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for our service to the residents.

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We provide free housing in a furnished boarding house, we call it.

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And they can stay for two, three, four, five, six months or a year, as long as they abide

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by the house rules.

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And that's housekeeping curfew.

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Basically you respect your housemates.

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It's a mentoring program.

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It teaches basic life skills.

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And so I got a minimal salary in 2008, five years.

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And then as our bed numbers increased, we bought another house and bought another house.

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And again, we used our own funds.

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And we're able to invest any money we had in that.

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And when we expanded, our contract increased.

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And so now we have a contract for give or take 80 people a day.

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And we are paid up per diem for that.

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And it's because of our longstanding relationship with the Department of Corrections that we

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are fiscally accountable and our program is accountable.

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And both are audited.

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And so the idea is when you develop trust with your partners, then you're able to expand

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and grow readily because we can lean on one another.

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Yeah, wow.

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That's amazing to me, what you've achieved, John.

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I want to get to the meat and potatoes about your vision now.

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The lives that changed are more important than anything else, I think, that you've achieved.

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I would love to hear some of the stories of the lives of people that you have changed,

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John, for the better.

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We don't, most people look at recidivism or the return to prison rate because that drives

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all the numbers.

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How many people go back to prison?

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And that was the reason for the initial push for the program because 50 to 60% of men and

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women were going back to prison within three years.

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So the idea was if you put people in the community, they'll be more stable and housing was the

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key.

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So we don't track recidivism, but what we look at is anecdotally.

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For example, if somebody stays with us three months and gets a job and moves on, we call

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that a success because we've done our part.

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So I would say if we have, say we get on any given year 500 referrals, we may have to terminate

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for failure to comply with, we don't even track the numbers, but I would say we probably

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have no more than a dozen or two dozen people who don't comply.

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And we have to say, you have to leave or they get arrested for some reason.

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Most people I found coming from prison just want to get back with their lives.

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They want a job, they want to get their own place, and hopefully they want to get a family

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of some sort.

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So I just heard this week that one of our very first residents, his name was Walter,

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he came to us after being in prison for nine years.

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He was 16 years old when he was locked up and he came to us and he came from Washington,

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DC.

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So he was in a coming from the city, came, he got arrested in Ohio.

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So he's in Ohio prison.

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He came to us and he was a black man in a white rural community.

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And of course, obviously, he'd just been in prison for a third of his life.

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He was very nervous, but he was, he was willing to work and try.

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And over time, we were able to connect him with a mentor who owned a vineyard and the

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mentor said, I can hire you.

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And he, Walter had never had a job, so he taught him how to work in a vineyard, how

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to work in a winery.

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And so that was, that must have been at least a dozen years ago.

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And Walter has since, I just learned, because he moved out, he stayed with us for several

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years and he stayed at that job and he's still there today and he's a manager in the vineyard.

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And he just got married and he bought a house in our same neighborhood.

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Now Walter is a glaring example of success because we didn't do anything different.

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We offered him a hand up and he took it.

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And the same thing happened with Reggie, our very first resident.

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He came to us with the same story, very nervous in a white community.

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But in time, he came with us with a very strong work ethic because he wanted to reunite with

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his daughter and he wanted to make up for those lost years.

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And eventually he got a job and he's driving a truck.

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And then about a month ago, he called me and I hadn't heard from him for several years.

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He said, I want you to know I'm still working, driving long distance.

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I'm still married and I just read your book.

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So we had a good time talking about that.

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But what he was saying was, I want to give back to you a little of what you've given

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to me.

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Now that's clearly a success.

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So those are just two examples.

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And I bet you have countless of these examples over the last 10, 15 years.

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Maybe a more not tragic one, but a more realistic one, more common one would be Jimmy, who was

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schizophrenic.

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He was 67 years old when he came to us.

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He was living in his truck in the winter.

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He was near dead because of the weather.

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And he came to us and we took him in for a short term and a longer term and longer term.

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And eventually he stayed with us 14 years until he eventually died at 81.

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And what he said when he was near dead, he said, I want you to know this was the only

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home I ever had.

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Now that to me was an even greater success because Jimmy had nowhere to go and he'd never

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had a home that he could call a home until he came to us.

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And so sometimes the best you can offer some place is somebody is a place to die in peace.

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And that's what we did.

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That's amazing.

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I have one more question for you, John.

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And that will be the end of today's segment.

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Where do you see your program that you established going?

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Or where do you want to take it?

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I never saw we would be where we are today.

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We've gone from no budget.

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Our first year, I think we had $5,000.

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Our budget now is almost $2 million a year.

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And I have 10 staff.

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And what I'm doing now is trying to transfer my vision, not to run the business, but I

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want them to run the when I say ministry, that sounds slight, but it's an act, an ongoing

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act of compassion to people who don't deserve it, but who desperately need it.

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And so what I teach people is that we are not parole officers.

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We are not we're not the church.

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We're not here to give away a free lunch.

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We're simply here to offer a hand up.

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But the key element is there's a place where the law ends and our people begin.

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And so I'm trying to teach them mercy.

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And there are days when I feel like I'm whistling in the wind.

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And there are days when my staff really gets it.

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And that's when I know that I can pass on this work.

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So we we have 19 homes now we're looking to buy another one, because we're at capacity.

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And I know the staff I've got can run that beyond me because I'm 76.

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And a lot of my energy now is not in the day to day.

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It's in what we are doing here.

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I'm promoting this whole concept of second chances universally, because I think more

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now than ever, we're in an age that's very hostile.

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It's very frightened.

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People are angry and they're there and it may easily get worse than it is today.

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So what my goal is with these podcasts and with my book is to share the message of second

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chances and to share hope.

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So I want to be the spokesperson for hope in the community that I feel desperately needs

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to hear that word.

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Jesus, one of the biggest quotes, I think, is how many times am I supposed to forgive

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my neighbor?

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Yes, he says seven times 70.

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And a lot of times, people don't take it literally enough.

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And I think your program does exactly that.

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And I will admit, you know, there's a thin balance between holding people accountable

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where it's and then offering them mercy.

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And we're constantly when's the time to let somebody go?

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When is it time to have an early curfew or to say you cannot have your privileges because

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of this?

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Because sometimes I think we're teaching seventh graders because we don't use the term rehabilitate.

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We use the term habilitate.

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We're teaching new skills, not trying to remind people of old skills.

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So I think the biggest vision I have now is passing on the vision of hope and mercy to

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my staff.

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So it will grow well beyond me.

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That's amazing.

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Thank you for sharing that with me, John, today.

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Well, my privilege, my privilege, Harry.

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Thank you for being here today.

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I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.

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This is going to get more and more fun.

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We'll have more and more engagement as well.

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We'll invite people to participate in the show.

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And thank you for giving us your time and attention.

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Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.