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As far as those businesses goes, nonprofit and for-profit,

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how did you get started?

3
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Well, I went into business for myself back in 1984,

4
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or 85, I guess.

5
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I finished my master's degree and I wasn't sure,

6
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a lot of the people I tried to work for

7
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had so many rules and regulations about what I could do

8
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and what I could say.

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I'm a licensed professional counselor.

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And I thought if I start my own business,

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and I was well aware that I could fail,

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if I start my own business,

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I can deal with the people that I want to deal with,

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charge what they can afford

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rather than what the business wants me to charge.

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And I can be in a lot of places

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that I couldn't be otherwise.

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Yes, yes, and I know that it's sometimes in those

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with addiction and specifically drug addiction,

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alcohol addiction, the treatment can be expensive,

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very expensive.

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Oh, now it is so incredible now.

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Yes, yes, and again, I was in that for about eight years,

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but that was a while ago.

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And if it was expensive then,

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the way that you say incredibly expensive now,

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I could only imagine,

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which makes it so much harder.

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For the clients that you've served when you got started,

30
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how did you make that possible for them to get treatment?

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A lot of people didn't pay, which is why I'm not wealthy.

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I started a nonprofit in about 2007, I think.

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And the purpose of that was so that I could accept donations

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and write grants.

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We never wrote a lot of grants, but we did get donations.

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And I did a lot of workshops

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and I particularly worked on the Indian reservations

38
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for 20 years.

39
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And I would do a lot of workshops,

40
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those that couldn't afford it,

41
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I would just let come.

42
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I always made sure that two or three got to come free.

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And if I had three paying people,

44
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I would let three people come free.

45
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So that's how that worked and how that got started.

46
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And you stated that you were in recovery of 40 plus years,

47
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am I correct?

48
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I have 44 years of recovery.

49
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Yeah, congratulations.

50
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And I've written 19 books.

51
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All right, let's go into those books.

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00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,120
Tell me one that you would like to definitely talk about.

53
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:59,120
Well, the most recent one is a search for sanity.

54
00:02:59,120 --> 00:02:59,960
Okay.

55
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Can you see it?

56
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:02,880
I can, thank you.

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It is my story of how I discovered it.

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I personally was an alcoholic.

59
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I grew up in an alcoholic home in my upper 20s.

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Other books are pretty much about that,

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about what it's like to be a child

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in a really severely toxic home.

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My parents did their best,

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but back in those days, alcoholism was a moral issue.

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You didn't claim it, you didn't talk about it.

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And you certainly didn't admit you had that issue.

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So a lot of my work has been on what it's like

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to be a family member.

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And I developed a lot of family programs.

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I was lucky enough, or not even lucky, blessed enough

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to get to meet some of the experts at the time

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who really knew what they were talking about.

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Virginia Satir was one, she has since died,

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but she was the guru of what it was like

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to be a child in a toxic home.

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And I learned from her.

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And Father Martin was the very first person

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to develop a program for children of alcoholics

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and to be able to explain to the family how it was,

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how it really feels to be a child.

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And I was providing my books and my personal story

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for those who didn't really get it.

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00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,400
But the book that I finished, that I wanted to talk about

84
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is A Search for Sanity, because when I was in my 30s,

85
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I was working for an alcoholism program

86
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and it just became very obvious to me

87
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that I had an alcohol problem.

88
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I didn't realize that because my drinking wasn't nearly

89
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as bad as my father's and my brother's

90
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and other people that I knew.

91
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And I really, really struggled.

92
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And so the story is about the struggle

93
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and the mental illness that accompanied this struggle.

94
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,240
Okay, and with that book,

95
00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:32,160
with the book A Search for Sanity,

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00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,240
it talks about your childhood.

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And then when you found out about,

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when you were aware that you had an alcohol problem

99
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and then those changes that you made

100
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in order to become sane,

101
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is that what the book pretty much is?

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Pretty much.

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00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:50,840
Yes, yes.

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There's a lot of spiritual enlightenment in this book.

105
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I grew up really angry with God,

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very resentful of his power.

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In fact, I was in a power struggle with him for years

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because of all the bad things

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that were happening in my family.

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And my thought that if he wanted to fix that, he could.

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And he didn't.

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And so there was a lot of that.

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There's a lot of that in the book.

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There is a step-by-step way to reach out for help.

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I mean, the most important thing in recovery

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is perseverance and determination.

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And I did have that.

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I had a lot of crazy stuff, but I also had that.

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Yes, yes.

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And when it came to this book,

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tell me about your vision for writing this one specifically.

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It just felt like I, my first,

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I have four books in this series,

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and the series is called Blood, Sex, and Tears.

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Okay.

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So the first book is Just Fine, Thank You,

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which I wrote about my childhood

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because no matter what anybody asked us,

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we were just fine, thank you.

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We may have just came from a house

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where there was a really bad thing

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from a house where there was a knockdown drag out,

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but if somebody said, how are you?

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Oh, I'm just fine, thank you.

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So that was the name of my first book in this series.

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The next one was Dance Like There's No Tomorrow.

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And that was my teenage years

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and how I was struggling trying to figure out

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what was going on, why everything was so bad

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in my high school years.

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And that's when I started drinking.

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And then my other one was To Be Somebody.

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And that book came about because I had a little brother

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that I absolutely adored and helped raise.

145
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And my little brother was killed in a freak accident.

146
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But before he died, he was really mad at me

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because I was living with a very abusive alcoholic husband.

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And my brother said, you could be somebody.

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You are, I'm not gonna help you

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because you could have been somebody.

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You could be somebody even still.

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So then that was the last conversation I had with him

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and then he was killed.

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And I just made in my mind, I'm gonna be somebody.

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And I went to college, got my education

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and it was all because of what he said to me.

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And that was in the book of To Be Somebody,

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a tale of love, heartbreak and hope, correct?

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Yes. Yes, yes.

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Well, I definitely see that there is some significance

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in all of this and you finding yourself

162
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and the hope and giving everyone hope through these books.

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Through these books, do all of them have an ending

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of your recovery or how that took place?

165
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Or is it just this one that speaks most

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about the recovery part?

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They all show the progression of the disease

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and the mental illness.

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They all show, and then each book does stand alone.

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I mean, but each one tells more of the story

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of the progression of recovery.

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And the last one, the last one so far,

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the search for sanity really tells how I found

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spiritual healing and recovery from alcoholism

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and how I learned a lot from my job.

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I think God gave me an opportunity to work

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with other hurting people and to share my story

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and to hear theirs.

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And I learned a lot from all of this.

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Plus there was never a workshop I wouldn't take

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or a training that I wasn't up for.

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Yeah. And so are you actively an LPC?

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Yes, at this point I am.

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I, right now I have, I take a very few private clients.

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Okay. I'll do some family workshops.

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I really love working with families, with children,

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because to me, the children are the ones

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who need this information.

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If I would have had some of this information,

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my life would have been completely different.

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Yeah.

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What has been your most significant learning experience

193
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in all of this to include your nonprofit,

194
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profit and all the books?

195
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,520
What's been your most significant learning experience?

196
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:11,360
Wow.

197
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I think probably the most significant is the perseverance.

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Hang on, keep going, you'll have a bad day,

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you'll have a bad day, you'll have a bad day.

200
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Keep going, you'll have a bad day,

201
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,960
tomorrow will be better.

202
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And align yourself with people who know more than you.

203
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I always sought out people that knew more than I did,

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that were willing to share with me their knowledge

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and their professionalism and what things to look for.

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Yeah.

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And I believe that that's across the board

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for all leaders and entrepreneurs

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and business individuals is finding that group of people

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that's at the table with you, that can sit with you

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and help you to further yourself

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and provide you with knowledge.

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So I definitely see that as a benefit.

214
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What's been the most challenging part of the journey

215
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,280
in helping others heal?

216
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,480
Dealing with my own feelings of insignificance,

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my feelings of guilt and remorse,

218
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dealing with trying to figure out,

219
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I was always trying to figure out what is going on.

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And so I would say that slowly and slowly,

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I learned that I have worth.

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I was put in line with some people who told me I had worth

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and I am really, really blessed by that.

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Yeah, that's extremely important.

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And I can only imagine what that feels like.

226
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And as you continue to help others,

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reach their goal of sobriety and or just clarity,

228
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it's important that you have that experience.

229
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What's one piece of advice you would give someone

230
00:13:16,780 --> 00:13:21,780
just starting their journey towards healing?

231
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,880
Take one step at a time and listen to a person

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00:13:27,060 --> 00:13:28,600
who knows more than you.

233
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,040
Try really hard to give up your denial.

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It's really hard, especially when you feel so insignificant,

235
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it's really hard to admit that somebody knows more than you.

236
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:44,720
Yeah, yeah.

237
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,340
And with the vision that you had for it all,

238
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where are you currently going with that vision?

239
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:55,460
So you've just completed a book and I believe that,

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00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:57,980
was that August of last year, if I'm not mistaken?

241
00:13:57,980 --> 00:13:58,820
Yes.

242
00:13:58,820 --> 00:14:01,060
Okay, what are you doing?

243
00:14:01,060 --> 00:14:03,660
Are you preparing for another book?

244
00:14:03,660 --> 00:14:07,020
I have some ideas, but mostly I've been speaking

245
00:14:07,980 --> 00:14:09,500
and meeting with people.

246
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:13,300
And I've done quite a few interviews

247
00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:17,980
and the whole purpose is to get the word out.

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There is hope, there is help, hang on and look for it.

249
00:14:23,580 --> 00:14:24,900
Yes, yes, yes.

250
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,980
And that's awesome to hear

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00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:31,820
because some people do need hope, you know?

252
00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:35,220
And that can be given from someone like yourself

253
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that has experienced.

254
00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:40,900
If you would recommend a book to someone,

255
00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:45,640
which one would you tell them or advise them to read first?

256
00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:50,140
Well, it depends on what they're looking for,

257
00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:52,740
but if they were to read one of my books.

258
00:14:52,740 --> 00:14:54,140
Yes, your books.

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I would recommend a search for sanity.

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00:14:58,780 --> 00:15:00,120
Okay.

261
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,620
But there are, I mean, the other books talk

262
00:15:02,620 --> 00:15:05,980
about my childhood experiences

263
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:10,980
and there are many, many people who try to deny

264
00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:13,220
or ignore their childhood and they'll say,

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that's in the past.

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Well, it is in the past,

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but unfortunately it's living in you.

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Yeah.

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And if you can let go of it,

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it makes a tremendous difference.

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Yes.

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And lastly, what do you hope to achieve next

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in your mission to support mental health and personal growth?

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I really hope that people will be touched and reached,

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that people will find a better life,

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that people will not be so afraid of being insignificant,

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but reach out for people that can help them.

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Thank you for being here today.

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I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reaction

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to the vision of the future.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions

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as these episodes continue to move forward.

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This is gonna get more and more fun.

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We'll have more and more engagement as well.

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We'll invite people to participate in the show

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and thank you for giving us your time and attention.

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Have an excellent time building out your vision

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and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.