As far as those businesses goes, nonprofit and for-profit,
how did you get started?
Well, I went into business for myself back in 1984,
or 85, I guess.
I finished my master's degree and I wasn't sure,
a lot of the people I tried to work for
had so many rules and regulations about what I could do
and what I could say.
I'm a licensed professional counselor.
And I thought if I start my own business,
and I was well aware that I could fail,
if I start my own business,
I can deal with the people that I want to deal with,
charge what they can afford
rather than what the business wants me to charge.
And I can be in a lot of places
that I couldn't be otherwise.
Yes, yes, and I know that it's sometimes in those
with addiction and specifically drug addiction,
alcohol addiction, the treatment can be expensive,
very expensive.
Oh, now it is so incredible now.
Yes, yes, and again, I was in that for about eight years,
but that was a while ago.
And if it was expensive then,
the way that you say incredibly expensive now,
I could only imagine,
which makes it so much harder.
For the clients that you've served when you got started,
how did you make that possible for them to get treatment?
A lot of people didn't pay, which is why I'm not wealthy.
I started a nonprofit in about 2007, I think.
And the purpose of that was so that I could accept donations
and write grants.
We never wrote a lot of grants, but we did get donations.
And I did a lot of workshops
and I particularly worked on the Indian reservations
for 20 years.
And I would do a lot of workshops,
those that couldn't afford it,
I would just let come.
I always made sure that two or three got to come free.
And if I had three paying people,
I would let three people come free.
So that's how that worked and how that got started.
And you stated that you were in recovery of 40 plus years,
am I correct?
I have 44 years of recovery.
Yeah, congratulations.
And I've written 19 books.
All right, let's go into those books.
Tell me one that you would like to definitely talk about.
Well, the most recent one is a search for sanity.
Okay.
Can you see it?
I can, thank you.
It is my story of how I discovered it.
I personally was an alcoholic.
I grew up in an alcoholic home in my upper 20s.
Other books are pretty much about that,
about what it's like to be a child
in a really severely toxic home.
My parents did their best,
but back in those days, alcoholism was a moral issue.
You didn't claim it, you didn't talk about it.
And you certainly didn't admit you had that issue.
So a lot of my work has been on what it's like
to be a family member.
And I developed a lot of family programs.
I was lucky enough, or not even lucky, blessed enough
to get to meet some of the experts at the time
who really knew what they were talking about.
Virginia Satir was one, she has since died,
but she was the guru of what it was like
to be a child in a toxic home.
And I learned from her.
And Father Martin was the very first person
to develop a program for children of alcoholics
and to be able to explain to the family how it was,
how it really feels to be a child.
And I was providing my books and my personal story
for those who didn't really get it.
But the book that I finished, that I wanted to talk about
is A Search for Sanity, because when I was in my 30s,
I was working for an alcoholism program
and it just became very obvious to me
that I had an alcohol problem.
I didn't realize that because my drinking wasn't nearly
as bad as my father's and my brother's
and other people that I knew.
And I really, really struggled.
And so the story is about the struggle
and the mental illness that accompanied this struggle.
Okay, and with that book,
with the book A Search for Sanity,
it talks about your childhood.
And then when you found out about,
when you were aware that you had an alcohol problem
and then those changes that you made
in order to become sane,
is that what the book pretty much is?
Pretty much.
Yes, yes.
There's a lot of spiritual enlightenment in this book.
I grew up really angry with God,
very resentful of his power.
In fact, I was in a power struggle with him for years
because of all the bad things
that were happening in my family.
And my thought that if he wanted to fix that, he could.
And he didn't.
And so there was a lot of that.
There's a lot of that in the book.
There is a step-by-step way to reach out for help.
I mean, the most important thing in recovery
is perseverance and determination.
And I did have that.
I had a lot of crazy stuff, but I also had that.
Yes, yes.
And when it came to this book,
tell me about your vision for writing this one specifically.
It just felt like I, my first,
I have four books in this series,
and the series is called Blood, Sex, and Tears.
Okay.
So the first book is Just Fine, Thank You,
which I wrote about my childhood
because no matter what anybody asked us,
we were just fine, thank you.
We may have just came from a house
where there was a really bad thing
from a house where there was a knockdown drag out,
but if somebody said, how are you?
Oh, I'm just fine, thank you.
So that was the name of my first book in this series.
The next one was Dance Like There's No Tomorrow.
And that was my teenage years
and how I was struggling trying to figure out
what was going on, why everything was so bad
in my high school years.
And that's when I started drinking.
And then my other one was To Be Somebody.
And that book came about because I had a little brother
that I absolutely adored and helped raise.
And my little brother was killed in a freak accident.
But before he died, he was really mad at me
because I was living with a very abusive alcoholic husband.
And my brother said, you could be somebody.
You are, I'm not gonna help you
because you could have been somebody.
You could be somebody even still.
So then that was the last conversation I had with him
and then he was killed.
And I just made in my mind, I'm gonna be somebody.
And I went to college, got my education
and it was all because of what he said to me.
And that was in the book of To Be Somebody,
a tale of love, heartbreak and hope, correct?
Yes. Yes, yes.
Well, I definitely see that there is some significance
in all of this and you finding yourself
and the hope and giving everyone hope through these books.
Through these books, do all of them have an ending
of your recovery or how that took place?
Or is it just this one that speaks most
about the recovery part?
They all show the progression of the disease
and the mental illness.
They all show, and then each book does stand alone.
I mean, but each one tells more of the story
of the progression of recovery.
And the last one, the last one so far,
the search for sanity really tells how I found
spiritual healing and recovery from alcoholism
and how I learned a lot from my job.
I think God gave me an opportunity to work
with other hurting people and to share my story
and to hear theirs.
And I learned a lot from all of this.
Plus there was never a workshop I wouldn't take
or a training that I wasn't up for.
Yeah. And so are you actively an LPC?
Yes, at this point I am.
I, right now I have, I take a very few private clients.
Okay. I'll do some family workshops.
I really love working with families, with children,
because to me, the children are the ones
who need this information.
If I would have had some of this information,
my life would have been completely different.
Yeah.
What has been your most significant learning experience
in all of this to include your nonprofit,
profit and all the books?
What's been your most significant learning experience?
Wow.
I think probably the most significant is the perseverance.
Hang on, keep going, you'll have a bad day,
you'll have a bad day, you'll have a bad day.
Keep going, you'll have a bad day,
tomorrow will be better.
And align yourself with people who know more than you.
I always sought out people that knew more than I did,
that were willing to share with me their knowledge
and their professionalism and what things to look for.
Yeah.
And I believe that that's across the board
for all leaders and entrepreneurs
and business individuals is finding that group of people
that's at the table with you, that can sit with you
and help you to further yourself
and provide you with knowledge.
So I definitely see that as a benefit.
What's been the most challenging part of the journey
in helping others heal?
Dealing with my own feelings of insignificance,
my feelings of guilt and remorse,
dealing with trying to figure out,
I was always trying to figure out what is going on.
And so I would say that slowly and slowly,
I learned that I have worth.
I was put in line with some people who told me I had worth
and I am really, really blessed by that.
Yeah, that's extremely important.
And I can only imagine what that feels like.
And as you continue to help others,
reach their goal of sobriety and or just clarity,
it's important that you have that experience.
What's one piece of advice you would give someone
just starting their journey towards healing?
Take one step at a time and listen to a person
who knows more than you.
Try really hard to give up your denial.
It's really hard, especially when you feel so insignificant,
it's really hard to admit that somebody knows more than you.
Yeah, yeah.
And with the vision that you had for it all,
where are you currently going with that vision?
So you've just completed a book and I believe that,
was that August of last year, if I'm not mistaken?
Yes.
Okay, what are you doing?
Are you preparing for another book?
I have some ideas, but mostly I've been speaking
and meeting with people.
And I've done quite a few interviews
and the whole purpose is to get the word out.
There is hope, there is help, hang on and look for it.
Yes, yes, yes.
And that's awesome to hear
because some people do need hope, you know?
And that can be given from someone like yourself
that has experienced.
If you would recommend a book to someone,
which one would you tell them or advise them to read first?
Well, it depends on what they're looking for,
but if they were to read one of my books.
Yes, your books.
I would recommend a search for sanity.
Okay.
But there are, I mean, the other books talk
about my childhood experiences
and there are many, many people who try to deny
or ignore their childhood and they'll say,
that's in the past.
Well, it is in the past,
but unfortunately it's living in you.
Yeah.
And if you can let go of it,
it makes a tremendous difference.
Yes.
And lastly, what do you hope to achieve next
in your mission to support mental health and personal growth?
I really hope that people will be touched and reached,
that people will find a better life,
that people will not be so afraid of being insignificant,
but reach out for people that can help them.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reaction
to the vision of the future.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions
as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is gonna get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show
and thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision
and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.