were speaking about Omlist and you were telling me more about that. Please begin again.
Yeah, it's essentially a gamified way to making a movie list. So you like kind of Tinder swipe
through it what you like and dislike and it'll say these are your movies that you liked from your
favorite all the way to the bottom. And then it compares you against similar users and then
presents you movies that they love that you haven't seen and vice versa. So it's kind of
like this collaborative, I don't know, kind of like taste community that is sort of formed.
And so that Omlist with movies is my first initial version of that because I think there's
something magical about the things we like and also the things that we prioritize and I wanted
to find something that I wanted to build something that was more of the spirit of, I don't know,
finding like minded, I guess, like people but like discovering things through other things. So
that's why I built Omlist is I think there's something powerful about what we like and I wish
there was an easier way to find things that we loved and I think, yeah. And it's all movie based,
correct? It's movie based right now. Yeah. And you know, of course, I'm thinking outside the box,
as I mentioned, that I would do and I can only relate it, right? And there's no plug for
for Netflix, right? But they're, they're camp to try to find something that I like is often
a mix and not necessarily a hit, you know, because I believe that what we do is we, we,
we find a movie, we go for it, maybe watch 30 minutes of it's like, it doesn't really fit,
but yet it right, it continues to prefer movies such as the ones I only watched 30 minutes in.
So with that being said, Omlist would definitely like you said, sort of like a swipe left kind of
thing, if this is what you're interested in, and therefore the many times that you swipe left or
right, however that really goes, it's gonna definitely push more towards the liking of what
you've actually swiped to say that I have interest in. Is that correct? Right. Exactly. I can do that
better myself. Yeah. All right. Well, when you decided to begin this journey of Omlist,
tell me about your vision for it. My biggest vision of it is, well, I guess it kind of like,
it started back in college where like we were, it was my first like couple weeks and I was like,
really getting into Reddit at that time. I'm a little old. I'm like in my thirties. But when
Reddit first came out, I thought it was just such a powerful, cool thing. But I never understood why
it didn't have more of a curated, what's like the word, like a curation based off the things that I
was liking or voting on. And I wanted to, I also felt like that these things weren't really
connecting me with other people. You could like join different groups saying like, I really like,
I don't know, fantasy books and you can find a fantasy book or you really like basket weaving
and you can find a basket weaving group. But there was nothing that was like kind of taking into the
fact that you both like fantasy and basket weaving. And is there somebody that also is that? And so
ultimately what almost is like first and foremost is just to find you great movie recommendations.
But my ultimate vision of it would be like from movie recommendations to like soulmates. And like
that would be like my vision of it. And the thing that you're describing with like Netflix, that's
like really frustrating is what they're using is they're using a lot of like machine learning
algorithms and AI to essentially say like, you know, Javonka was only watching, I don't know,
the office for like, you know, one episode and then she went and started watching like,
Always Be or Maybe or Stranger Things or whatever it was. And then they're trying to like say like,
okay, there's something, there's some design in that. But like, you could have been watching it
with a friend, they don't know, you know, one of your like, you know, one of your friend's kids
could have like turned on something, and it's on your profile. And so they aren't able to actually
get feedback that's actually that responsive. And also, I feel like they're trying to pick up
on things that are like, this has children afraid of monsters. And that's like the, you know, the
through line of what you really like, but I don't think that that's really how it is, or you have
liked the most, I don't know, like you like any movie with Adam Sandler in it. And it just keeps
like feeding things like that to you. But like, not all Adam Sandler movies are the same. And it's
just, I felt like it was just really problematic. And just like their idea that we can break down
humans down to like keywords. Yeah. Or that we're like ones and zeros, kind of like a computer
where it's like, well, if you like Brad Pitt, then you'll like all of Brad Pitt is kind of what they
assume. And I don't think that's how humans operate. And so I wanted to kind of take the magic of what
we are, and say, what is the thing that indicates what we love most in this world, which is what we
prioritize, and just simply do that. It's like, you know, it's like what I said, it's like, sometimes
like our resumes, like show what we've done, but the white of the resume shows like what we were
between everything. And I think that that's just as indicative with that. And I think the space that
is around all those movies is kind of who you are. And to say that, like, you know, if if 51st
Dace is your favorite movie, then Fight Club, and then, I don't know, The Godfather, then you're a
very interesting person. And that's a very eclectic case of movies. And I think there's something
really unique about that. And I'm like, who would be the person that's closest to you based just off
of how your list is? And because I think that the way that we're going is a lot of these tech companies
are going to want to become like, they're going to want to create your best friend, your like your,
your, your mentor, your like, who you're dating, they're going to want to be everything to you.
And they're going to create these personalities, and these like characters in your life, and they're,
and I think it's going to like crowd out, like interpersonal relationships. And I still think
there's real value in like humans connecting with other humans and finding value from other humans.
And I didn't see a lot of apps that were directly doing that, like even like, why is why is Tinder
and Bumble and Hinge and all of those dating apps are like going really far down, and they're getting
less and less users, it's because we've been dealing with them for over a decade. And a lot of people
are saying, I don't think that these things are working. And this experiment is invalid. But also
on the reverse of that is that a lot of those apps are trying to essentially do what kind of
like tik tok or Instagram reels does, where it's trying to just get you into this zone where you're
having something that's good enough, but not good enough to take you off the app. They want you to
want something they want you to keep swiping. So it's kind of like eating a bag of potato chips,
where you just keep eating them, because they're not built to be satisfying, but they're they're
they're built to kind of just feel like you just need one more. And when our entire world is built
that way, then we don't ever get anything satisfying. And I think like, I want the thing
that feels satisfying. And I think there's a way to build these apps and like monetize them in a way
that feels also in line with giving people something that's valuable. And I said, that's what
almost is that my grandest vision is from like movies to soulmates. I'm really fascinated just
like, who are the people in the world that are closest to each other? And because I think it
would reveal a lot about, I don't know, like, where we're born, or like, who our environment is, or
the fact that we might like something that nobody else around us likes, whether it's anime, or,
you know, steamy romance novels, or whatever. And we found that on our own. And I'd be curious if
it was just easier to discover things that we love, and the people that we would bond with over that
easier. And so that's my, that's my grand vision with on list is, is wanting to help with that.
So your your the plan is to take on list and expand it to a compatibility app as well to finding
those who are looking for compatibility and companionship. And one thing that I wrote down,
I love the potato chip analogy, because where my mind was going is that you can have a bag of potato
chips, they're gonna all taste good because you bought the bag potato chips, but they're all
going to be in different sizes. And so the pleasure of those chips, each time you dig in the bag,
because we're never really looking in there anyway, we're like, right, this is a good one
covered in, you know, cheese. And this is exactly what I needed to fulfill just for that moment. So
when I think about your analogy of the potato chip, and where my mind went, and where I'm list is, is,
okay, would this be like that bag of potato chips, since I've done so much with this,
that next movie that I may not even know that I would have liked, it's, it's tailored it so
much to me that it's like, oh, okay, I can watch this. And this is going to, to help me in whichever
mood that I'm in, right? Because I believe people watch movies based on moves.
Right. I don't know. I don't know very many. Yeah. And I'm sitting here, like, when I sit down,
and luckily, you know, we have the opportunity to watch shows which have episodes after episodes,
which I'm not sure if that's what it is like anymore is to watch a, you know, 22 episodes of
one, one, you know, one show. With that being said, movies are something completely different
because I need to be caught in, right? And then I want to end with something great. So I see,
I see the, the, the journey and the outcome and where this is going. And I'm actually looking
forward to what it will actually end up because it's, it's completely different. And like you said,
some of these apps, like you stated Tinder and Bumble and all of that, which were based off of
really trying to find someone and then I'm, I'm actually gonna do a telltale. I found my husband
on Plenty of Fish. Oh, amazing. Yeah. 13 years ago, but it was, it was all of my nevus. And I say
that to say is if you get on there with the intent of it's about, I guess our intentions, right? But
it's been many, many, many years. You don't want something to fade away that ended, that began
something so well. So what is the transition into this becoming an app that it doesn't happen to you,
Kyle? Or to Amos? Yeah. Right. Like how does it, how does it not be something that people don't want
or it's not working for people? I think, I think a lot of great businesses or a lot of the businesses
that I've created have all kind of been at their heart questions that I'm curious about from the
universe. Like, and so my, my main theories or my, my feelings are it's like, how similar are we to
other people? And how often and how and do we change over time? Yeah. And, and like, how much
is where we're born indicative of our taste? And also, like, is there something unique about our
friend circles or our social environments that would keep us away from other people that are
most similar to us? Do we would we benefit from somebody that's very similar to us or 98% similar
to us? Or would we not? Is liking things merely like trying to be accepted by a community? Yeah,
like, I like this music, because my friends like this music, like, chances are, if your friends are
smokers, you are a smoker, is that we reflect and mirror our environment to belong. And so like,
is taste simply a community building tool? Or is there something deeper that can happen
interpersonally? And so if my theory is, is that we're in these social structures where, like, you
know, you have your friends that like value you and they fill in your life, you're, you know,
your partner and everything else, then that means that, you know, you probably wouldn't interact
with another version like you, because you're like the furthest from them socially, because
another group has their own budget of onta, that's that satisfies that they want. And that means
that they're really full with what they need and want from them and vice versa. So it's like, it
kind of like, if you're here, then there's like this giant webbing, and you're like the the nucleus,
like you're the furthest away from the other people, you're always going to be one to two degrees
separation from your other most closest compatibility or character kind of build that's in other
friendships. Like, if we were to think of, you know, like friends, like there's, you know, there's
a Joey in every group, but there's no two joeys together, right? And I. And so I think with
onlist, the thing that I'm it mainly comes down to if my theory is correct or not, do we would we
gain more valuable recommendations from people than from robots? And if we do, then that means
there's something that's really kind of like, unquantifiable about what our taste is. Because
a lot of what they've like leaned into is that anything that you say, or you hear in conversation,
you'll check out, you know, like last year, when I was in New York, everybody was talking about beef,
there's like beef, beef, and I was just in New York. And when you're on the street, you just
overhear conversations. And it's just like, Oh, my god, 40% of everybody here is talking about beef.
And I'm like, Okay, like, let me watch beef. And I was like, Oh, beef is very good. And, and so it
just kind of, it just that sometimes, like, what it is, is we can have a huge list of books, movies,
whatever that we want to watch. But if there's some random person that's talking about it, like
next to you at dinner, you're like, Oh, maybe we should check out Shogun or something like,
well, you know, we should do that. And so are we also just like, is our attention built off of
novelty, like this ADHD thing, like, oh, shiny, like, there's something like I heard this two or
three times, or whenever we learn a new word, we sometimes we somehow hear that word, like three
times, then over the next couple days, it's like, why does that always happen? Like, what is that?
It's just like, there's this, like, there's this, like, collective cycle of information that's
constantly happening. Or is there something that you would love, regardless of time, you know,
you know, and, and I think, like, that's my main theory. It's like, I don't really know, my my ideal
is, yes, hopefully, you know, hopefully that it hopefully that, you know, people have taste that
spans over years and aren't just built with the zeitgeist. But if it's not, then that's just like
information for me to know. And that helps me inform my next business, my next whatever, or helps
teach me things about humanity. Like, I've had other businesses that have taught me a ton about
humanity. And, and I think it's just, I don't know, it's, it's always it's, it's excuses to kind of
run experiments on my theories about the world. Yeah. And, and, and you said you say excuses, and
I love that you use that word, but sometimes excuses could be good to dive into, right, to explore.
When it when it comes to you and the business that you made, and now you're into Omlist,
what was your most significant learning experience to getting to this point?
Wow.
Good question.
I think one of my biggest learning lessons from
other businesses I had, I ran a writer's agency for a while. And
I think that I was like, I'm gonna like freelance writers are so lonely, like we're spread out
throughout the world, like, why don't I try to like build community where we play like, you know,
Settlers of Catan like together, or we play like, you know, we do something that's like more
community oriented and try to build a community digitally. And, and kind of what, what happened
was wanting the community to sort of show up and say, we're gonna host board game night, or we're
gonna share music playlists. And, and it and kind of the core of it was relying on people being
their ideal selves all the time. Yeah. And I think that what I realized during that time is I didn't
create a lot of space in the business for people to not be their ideal self. Yeah. And so I think
like that was really sobering to me is I always thought like, if you show up and you have other
people and you say you really want this, then you'll give your all for this, right? Like you'll do
anything for it. But if somebody's having like a bad mental health week or month, and then they
drop the ball, and they can't do that. And then it like, you know, and then they're getting
resources that other people aren't like, you know, like, it kind of turns into this like
conundrum of trying to figure out how do I build in accountability, or into a system that when
people are imperfect. And that's like, like, why there has to be sick days is because it's, it's
it's unreasonable for us to expect that there that will be able to be at work every day of the year.
And so it's like, I just hadn't fully thought that. So I think like, it's important in businesses
to kind of build in the the the ability for it to absorb imperfect times, or if it's like, you know,
and because nothing can operate perfectly. And I think that was my biggest lesson in businesses.
It's like, is being more realistic about whatever you feel like the highest ideal is that you can
reach for maybe also not have the the business hinge on that. And then if it only gets halfway
there, it's still going to be operable, you know? Yeah, yeah. And it's, it just seems like things
are just growing and change. You mentioned that earlier, everyone changes. And I believe the
longer something stays the same, I think there's a team of people or people as in couples or families
should get to know each other once again, like, hey, are you the same person that I met like five
years ago? If not, right? What changes have you made within you that I may need to conform in order
to stay with you? And I believe that that's the way it is in business. I believe that's the way
it is in keeping something and building the long term of the business. And I think that's
a long term or a longevity in business and also staying top of mind to everyone, which is, you
know, you and Omlist and your goal and getting this out there. Is it actively usable or you still
work on it? Yeah, you know, you can you can Google Omlist and then you'll find the website and you
can download it on Android or iPhone. Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you
are watching Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward. It's going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement
as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time
to do so. And as I mentioned, have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a