1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,400 Tell me about your vision in writing all of those books. 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,280 Well, my vision has always been to help people with spiritual disciplines one small step at a time. 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:14,640 And I'll tell you why. When I first became a believer, I had not a sweet clue how to go to 4 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:22,800 church, how to pray, how to say hello. I didn't know. Well, the one that I wrote just last year 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:29,680 on healing prayer, I had no idea how to do it. And eventually, of course, I became a 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,640 pastor and they don't teach those things in seminary. They don't actually I was just having 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,200 a chat with the co-writer of the Healing Prayer Book. His name is Maxi Dunham. He's now 90. He 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,000 just turned 90. I just visited him in Memphis. And the reason why I wanted to see him is because he 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,440 just turned 90. He's getting old and you know, and anyway, but he said and he was the he was the 10 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:56,240 chancellor and the president of Asbury Theological Seminary. He did not know of an American seminary 11 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:01,600 that had a course on something as ordinary and as simple as teaching pastors how to pray so they 12 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:07,600 could teach their people how to pray. And now his seminary was the first to do it in North America. 13 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,600 But honestly, I've been to 17 nations. I'm going to 18 and 19 in about a week. I'm going to be in 14 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:19,600 Vietnam and Cambodia next week to teach and going there for the very simple reason that I want to 15 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,720 teach those people some very, very basic things one small step at a time. That's the vision of 16 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,920 this ministry that I have. It's called Spirit Equipment. And so to do it, listen, you can have 17 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,400 a conference and people get all excited. And the presenter gets at the front and you know, spouts 18 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,160 wisdom for an hour and a half or three days, depending on the size of your conference. Then 19 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,280 they give them a binder and they put the binder in the shelf and they forget in three days. 20 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:51,280 Right, right. The secret sauce to change is for there to be a presentation with someone who is 21 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:58,480 engaging and an immediate follow up with a day by day routine to absorb in small steps the things 22 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:04,240 that were presented in firehose fashion at the seminar or the event. And so I've learned this 23 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:09,040 over years. I was, I'm no longer now, but I used to be the chair of a group called Alliance Pray. 24 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,200 And I was in charge of, I'm a pastor in the Christian Missionary Alliance. And they wanted 25 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,400 me to help equip prayer across the country. And so I tried all kinds of crazy things. 26 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:25,840 Yeah. We had some success in some areas, but after about 10 years of holding an event here 27 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,920 or putting your reserves together over there or doing something in a national meeting or holding 28 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:34,960 a district rally and all these different kinds of things that we did, we discovered that the secret 29 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:42,320 sauce is to combine an event with an engaging presenter followed by a day by day process 30 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:49,600 immediately. If you did the two things together, it led to something like 80, 85% retention of what 31 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:54,320 you learned in the seminar. If you just did the seminar, your keeners, the ones who are highly, 32 00:02:54,320 --> 00:03:00,400 highly motivated, if they repeat the content within 48 hours, they'll remember half. If they 33 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:08,640 don't repeat the content within a week, they remember 10%. That's not the goal of trying to 34 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:13,920 teach. The goal of trying to teach is that your students surpass the teacher. Absolutely. That's 35 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:18,000 the goal. And so I found it Spirit Equipped. Actually, it wasn't even my idea. It was my 36 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,520 district superintendent's idea. So I don't know if you understand that language. You've got people 37 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:26,480 from all streams here. But in my denomination, we have what's called a presbyterial structure, 38 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,200 where a local pastor works with a bunch of leaders inside the church and oversees the church. Under 39 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:37,280 the oversight of someone who's called a district superintendent. So an Anglican or a Catholic would 40 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,880 call that a bishop or something. Yes. Okay. That kind of thing. Anyway, the bishop has teeth. 41 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:51,040 And if the pastor's an idiot, he can be fired. Rightfully so. If the board's an idiot, the board 42 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:56,480 can be fired. I've seen that too. Got it. Okay. My district superintendent looked at me one day and 43 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,120 he said, David, you've been doing this for years as a volunteer. You've traveled all over the earth. 44 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,880 You tried to help pastors in the region. You tried to train them. You tried to teach them. 45 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:11,520 I said, well, nobody taught me. He said, well, that's just it. If I could find a way to get you 46 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:18,000 paid, would you consider taking this on and writing resources and creating audio visual events and 47 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,880 traveling across the place to teach people? And I said, only if I could get paid. I'm a pastor. 48 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:30,960 Yeah. But it's his word. He found a way for that to work. And I'm now for you. But it wasn't my idea. 49 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:36,320 It was his. Every church I've served has grown except my last one, which first of all grew and 50 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,240 then it plateaued, then it started to decline. So I called him up and I said, I'm trying to figure 51 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,360 this out. What's going on? Have I hit the wall here? Am I past my prime? Am I no longer funny 52 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:52,400 or something like that? He went off and he prayed. And he came back three days later and he said, 53 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:58,480 I think you're supposed to be a writer, a teacher, an instructor, and an itinerant. 54 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,680 And you're supposed to travel. And listen, you can keep your credentials. You don't have to move. 55 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,120 You can stay right here. We can have a partnership with the local church. Oh, by the way, 56 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:11,040 that wasn't wise. I'll tell you why. If you used to be the lead pastor and a new guy comes in, 57 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,960 all the old folk who like you keep asking your opinion about the new guy. 58 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:23,520 I can definitely see that, right? Any pastor, any church, anywhere. It's not a good idea. 59 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:29,440 Not a good idea. Because listen, the old pastor, he stood with them when they were going through 60 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:34,560 a loss. He baptized, he dedicated, he traveled with them, he prayed with them, he did their 61 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:40,720 weddings. He coached them, he taught them. So they love them, right? New guy comes in, 62 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:46,320 he doesn't know them. They love the old guy. At any rate, that part didn't work, but the rest did. 63 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,840 So I'm now coming into my fifth year. And actually, this is really weird. I said yes 64 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:59,760 in November of 19. I started on January the 1st of 2020. And I had five conferences booked in within 65 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:06,880 the first two weeks. And I got to one of them in COVID. And so there was no international travel. 66 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,880 There was no local travel. I don't know what happened to you guys down here in the States, 67 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:16,000 correct? Am I correct? Yes. Well, where abouts in the States, right? San Antonio, Texas. Oh, way 68 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,040 south. Okay. I'm right on the southernmost tip of all things Canadian. I'm right in the great 69 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:26,560 lake space in the tip on the Canadian side. Okay. Okay. Just south of Windsor. Anyway, we weren't 70 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,760 allowed to travel 60 miles. Yeah. The police would take notice. And we weren't allowed to have more 71 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,760 than 10 people in any kind of room. And it didn't matter if it was a lawyer's office or a hospital. 72 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,120 And people dying in the hospital couldn't have their relatives come. It was this crazy thing. 73 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:44,400 It was awful. So I was stuck in a basement. What are you going to do? So I started to write the 74 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,680 resources that I wanted to develop anyway. And it led me to writing all of the books that you have 75 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:57,200 just seen. Wow. And each of them, and what I would do, this is a side door favor. I did not like Zoom 76 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,240 technology or the thing they're using, Riverside or whatever we're using. I didn't like it because 77 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:07,200 I thought it was rather cold and I'd much rather be in a room and hug someone come along and grab 78 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,680 her hand or pray for somebody by placing my hand gently on their shoulder. Doing that over Zoom, 79 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:19,440 it seemed like a very cold second. But you know what happened? Everybody had to learn it. 80 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:25,040 Everybody. Grandma and grandpa, they're in their 80s. They've got a three-year-old grandchild. 81 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,600 They can't see that three-year-old unless they're on the Zoom call. Absolutely. So the three-year-old 82 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,760 learns how to use Zoom and grandma and grandpa learn how to use Zoom or whatever the issue happened 83 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:40,240 to be. And so in that first year, I wound up with six different Zoom cohorts. And in one of them, 84 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,280 this is amazing. I didn't even try to do this. This Lord's Prayer book that I just showed you, 85 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:51,840 I was teaching the content that led to the writing of that book. And what I do now is I teach the 86 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,800 content to a select group. They tell me whether or not it's strong or weak, if you do sentence or 87 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,840 the story's not good enough or whatever, or if the point's not clear and you take the input and then 88 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,480 you adapt the book, then you're another cohort. And it was doing this. And I had people from the 89 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:13,040 Czech Republic, England, Nigeria, five American states, three Canadian provinces, Australia, 90 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:23,280 India, all in real time on the same call at the same time. And I befriended people over Zoom. 91 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,360 And actually in the course of time, I wound up traveling to Australia to do an event inside the 92 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,240 Australian church in Brisbane where the people came from. And as soon as we met, we didn't need 93 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:39,520 an introduction. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's amazing. It's just amazing. So the blessing became 94 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,920 the curse. I mean, the curse became the blessing. Yeah. The first I got, the blessing became the 95 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,960 curse, but then I discovered the curse became the blessing. Yes, yes, definitely. But all of these 96 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:54,560 things were things that I didn't plan on doing. In fact, even the way that I learned how to do prayer 97 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:59,760 for healing is hilarious. Do you want to hear that story? Yes. Well, here's what happened. So I was 98 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,240 in seminary and it was a mixed kind of place. There were some people in the seminary who believed 99 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,680 that every word of the Bible was true. And there were some people who thought it was mythology. 100 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,400 And some of the faculty held one view and some of the faculty held another view. And I was starting 101 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:18,720 up in this faculty, there was about 30 students in my cohort. And I walked into a class and the 102 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:23,200 prof got up and said, you know, we don't need to believe that Jesus actually walked on the water 103 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:30,000 to make the application from the text. And I said, I do believe that Jesus walked on the water. Why 104 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,160 do you want to throw out the history of the histories in the Bible? And then we had this 105 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:40,400 to and fro. And there was a guy in the class who had been a standup comic and he had been a radio 106 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:45,120 talk show host where people would be obnoxious or funny and he could interact with anybody fast in 107 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:52,080 a hurry. He was brilliant. Yeah. And he was hilarious. And he decided to crack a joke 108 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:57,360 in the middle of our heated argument about the historicity of the Bible text. And everybody in 109 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:05,360 the room exploded with laughter. The trouble was he was making fun of my face. Oh, no. So the first 110 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:11,200 time you hear that, you know, the the attitude was anybody who thinks anybody can walk on water has 111 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,240 got to be a brain dead idiot. You know, he was doing something like this with the joke. And so I 112 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,240 laughed it off. You know, it's your first couple of classes. You don't know anybody. You say, okay, 113 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,200 well, that's that's a one off. Anyway, every time I did this, the same guy, I had three classes with 114 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,360 the guy, this guy week because we're a cohort with three and two electives. So I'm in these three 115 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:36,240 classes. Anyway, every single time I defended the scripture, this guy would crack a joke. The entire 116 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:42,000 class would laugh. And after about a month and a half, two months, you say to yourself, yep, we're 117 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:50,800 not going to be friends. So there's a nice girl in the class, I call her Susie in the healing 118 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:57,520 pyramid. And she was as sweet as sweet can be one of these apple pie and coffee kind of people. 119 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,960 She was one of the ones who'd show up if you were in trouble, it was the do unto others, you would 120 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,920 have them do unto you. And she was everybody's nice sister. Can I say it that way? Just absolutely 121 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:12,000 sweet, dripping with kindness. And I had to go to a class we would cross in a plaza, us going to 122 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,240 different classes. And so I saw her and I said, Hey, Susie, how you doing? She said, Fine. How 123 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,840 about you, David? I said, I'm good. She said, Well, you know, our comedian friend, I said, Yeah, 124 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:28,000 I know. She said, Well, you see that hospital six blocks down the road. I said, Yeah. And she said, 125 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:36,720 He's in it. Now, I have to tell this to you, I wasn't I wasn't sad at first. I had to immediately 126 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:43,440 repented my bad. And yes, yes, yes. Then I said, Oh, what's wrong? And she said, He's got something 127 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,120 called phlebitis. Now, I didn't know what it was. So I asked her, I suspect some of your people 128 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:54,640 won't. It was a blood clot in his arm. Okay. And it's a very serious thing. If the blood clot broke 129 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,440 free, and it's usually in a vein somewhere, blood clot breaks free, and it travels through your body 130 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:05,520 and it lands in your lung, your heart or your brain. 95 times out of 100, you're dead. Just like that. 131 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:11,200 Okay. Okay. Very, very serious. And the guy has this condition. And I hear this and I think, Oh, 132 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:17,920 man. All right. I'm sorry. And then the girl says this crazy thing to me. She said, Yeah, you know, 133 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:23,600 he asked me to ask you something. I said, What's that? He wants you to come pray for him to get 134 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:35,840 well. I said, What? So she was shocked that I said, No. And I said, You have seen the way this man is 135 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:42,800 treating me. Every single time I've said anything about anything like this being true. He has mocked 136 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,520 me to our peers and made me the laughing stock appearing like a brain dead idiot with a wooden 137 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:54,880 head. And she said, He's been cruel and that she never talked that way. I said, Yes, he has. And 138 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,800 she said, I will talk to him. So we went to my class. And the next day I saw her in the coffee 139 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,640 lounge. And she said, Well, I saw our friend and he still wants you to come. He's terribly sorry. 140 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:09,760 I said, I'm not going. There was another reason for not going. I had never met anybody miraculously 141 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:16,400 healed. Nobody. I'd never seen anybody pray to that end and have success or failure. It didn't 142 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:21,040 have seen it. Nobody had trained me on how to do this. The very thing that I said at the beginning 143 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:27,280 of your podcast. I had no training. I didn't know how to be skilled. I knew it was true as an article 144 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:34,640 faced, but I didn't ever know how to do this. So I'm terrified because I'm greener than your average 145 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,960 rookie. I have no training, but I'm terrified because I think he's setting me up to be the 146 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,840 laughing stock again. And I don't want to go. So the third time I'm crossing the same Plaza and 147 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,160 this girl sees me and she says, David, did you go and see our friend at that hospital six blocks 148 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:54,080 down the road? I said, I'm not going. Now I don't know. Have you ever been told off by your mother? 149 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,200 Yeah, totally. Did she give you the look? 150 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,960 And it was the third time she's mentioned it to you. So now it's. 151 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:08,560 Yeah. Well, she got the look, you know, it was like the fire came out of her eyes and the rage. 152 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:16,160 Now she had never, I'd never seen that girl angry with anybody. Yeah. And she stomped her foot and 153 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,600 she raised her voice and she actually knew my middle initial. She inserted my middle initial 154 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:28,480 and she said, David, aren't you going around this school telling everybody the Bible's the word of 155 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:34,800 God and it's supposed to be obeyed? I said, yes. She said, well, what about the scripture? 156 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:43,120 I was sick and you visited me. I went, Oh no, I'm going to have to go and see the guy. 157 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:50,000 So I looked at her. I said, well, it says sick and visited. It says sick and prayed. And of course, 158 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,160 I didn't know how to do it. She said sick and visited sick or prayed. He's sick. You got to go. 159 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,120 So I finished my class and I walked the six blocks and I go into the room and there's this guy. 160 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:05,360 And he is obviously in distress. He's pale as a ghost. He's got wires and tubes all over his body 161 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,760 and monitors on the side of the wall and the little cups of medication he's supposed to take 162 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:15,680 the regular interviews. A charge nurse walks out while I walk in and he's just, you know, 163 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:22,480 he looks scared. Yeah. And so I said, I didn't say how you're doing. I said, Oh, I'm here. 164 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:28,160 How's your course is going? And he told me about his courses. I talked about the weather. 165 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:36,720 And then I said, well, listen, I visited you. I can go now. And he stopped and he looked at me 166 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:46,720 and he said, aren't you, aren't you going to pray? And I said, no, wait a minute. Every single time 167 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:52,720 I've said that this is real, that this is true, that this is historical, that this is alive today. 168 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,720 Every time I've done that, you have mocked me in front of our peers and made me the laughing stock. 169 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:05,760 Why in the name of all that is holy, do you want me to pray for you? And he said, he burst into tears. 170 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:11,280 He just began to shed buckets of tears. He was whole physically body was moving. And he said, 171 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:17,520 I am so sorry. I did that to you. I'm so sorry, but I have phlebitis. And if that clot breaks free, 172 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,960 I'm dead. And I'm 27. I want to live. I've got a wife. I don't have any kids yet. I want to have a 173 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,960 family. You're the only guy I know who believes that every word in that book is true. Won't you 174 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:35,040 please pray for me? Yeah. Yeah. I thought to myself, Oh brother, what am I going to listen? 175 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:41,840 I still did not have a clue. I had to do it. So, but I remember, Oh yeah, in the Bible, Jesus put 176 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:47,840 his hand on people. So I said, can I put my hand on your arm? Where is it? He said, left arm above 177 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,040 my elbow. Okay. Can I put my hand there? He said, yeah. So went around the bed and I put my hand on 178 00:16:53,040 --> 00:17:00,560 his left arm above his elbow, put my other hand on his head. And Jamonka, I have no idea what I 179 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:07,920 prayed. I am sure it was the most pathetic, tiny little, in the history of Christian. I said to 180 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:17,840 like, Oh God help, this guy's sick. I prayed that and suddenly there was a tangible change. And this 181 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:23,280 was the defining moment that led to that book on healing. In fact, this is the first story in the 182 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:30,960 book. The defining moment was this. Suddenly it was like a wave of love and compassion, 183 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:39,280 a wall of it filled the atmosphere. Like it was inhaling compassion. And suddenly all that I was 184 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:47,280 aware of was him and myself and the God who wanted him well. Yeah. And I just, I felt this fiery 185 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:53,280 power rising up inside of me. And I had never felt that before. I've been eight years a believer. 186 00:17:53,280 --> 00:18:00,400 I'd never felt anything like that before. And then as I'm doing this simple little prayer that I 187 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:06,400 can't remember the words to, out of my arm flows this fiery piece and it goes inside of his arm. 188 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:17,280 He looked at me and he said, what is that fiery presence? I said, that's the Lord spirit. He's 189 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:24,720 healing you. And I raced out of the room because I was scared. Number one, I'd never, I'd never felt 190 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,560 anything like that before. Number two, I'd never done anything like that. There were actually really 191 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:34,000 three. Number three, I still thought he might have an agenda to mock me. Yeah. And so I leave 192 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:40,800 and the next day, the next day he's at school in the coffee lounge. I see him. He's there. 193 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,240 And I walk up to him. I said, you, you're out of the hospital. You're here. He said, I am. 194 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,240 And it was a 19th century building with those concrete fluted columns in the hall. 195 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:57,120 Shows me to one of those corners and looks in all directions. And then he says, that prayer 196 00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:04,640 changed my life. Now what he didn't know was that prayer changed my life too. Yeah. It meant that I 197 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:10,240 had to understand what had happened to me and to him. Actually, then I found out that the next time 198 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,640 I went to a class, this is what happened. The part I just told you is in the book. Yeah. This part 199 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:21,840 is not. The next class I went to, I was defending the historicity of Moses splitting the sea. It 200 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,320 was an Old Testament class. And the god says, Oh no, it was a sea of reeds or we don't need to split 201 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,560 the sea to get to the history. They made that up. And I said, no, no, no, it's history. And this 202 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:36,560 student stands up and everybody's expecting the hilarious joke, including the teacher. Yeah. He 203 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:47,360 makes fun of unbelief. And I'm the hero. Class laughs. Yeah. And every single time for the 204 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:53,760 remainder of the term, he did the same thing. Anytime I said yes to the scripture, he would 205 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:59,280 defend me with the humor gun. This is the most amazing thing. So, so in the following year, 206 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,360 we're in a class together. And then there's a little party for the students and we're all gathered 207 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:07,200 around doing social things and talking sweet enough things about everything. You know, 208 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,200 it's like a gentle little gathering. And there's this girl who had asked me, there's him and 209 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:19,680 there's his wife and they're all standing together. And I go over to talk about, by the way, 210 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:24,560 wife was sweet, girl was sweet. This guy was still a question mark for me. But anyway, 211 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,520 I go over and, and I start talking about this or that and the two girls start giving him the elbow. 212 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,640 Yeah. You've got to tell Chaka what happened. You've got to tell Chaka what happened. 213 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:41,200 I want to tell Chaka what happened. And finally he did right after the class, 214 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:48,560 he did right after I left the room. A nurse walked in and he said to the nurse, 215 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,840 you can let me go home now. Jesus has healed me. My friend from Bible school, he came, he prayed for me. 216 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:01,600 She said, we don't do things like that around here. Yeah. And, and then he, he said, what do 217 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,960 you need to do? She said, I have to run some tests. She said, well run them. And she said, 218 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,680 well, I'm just coming to get you your due. And they took them down the hall and they tested 219 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:17,680 everything. And there had been a huge clot in his arm before it was gone. There was not a trace of 220 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:27,040 phlebitis in his body anywhere as well. So he goes home and he tells, of course he calls his wife, 221 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:32,080 his wife comes to get him and she takes him home and he does something he hasn't done before. He 222 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:40,640 kneels beside his bed and thanks God that he's been granted a gift of healing from Christ. 223 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:50,640 And then he goes to bed and he has a dream. And in the dream, he hears a voice and the voice says, 224 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:59,200 no one defends my servant David when he defends my word. You must defend him whenever he defends 225 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:06,480 the word. Yeah. Yeah. Did not 30 years after that, I changed the nominations. He was still in the same 226 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:13,200 old one that I was in before, but he said, he found me, sent me a note, thanking me for what it 227 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:19,600 happened in that hospital room 30 years before. No. And cause he now had three daughters. They're all 228 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,960 married off and raised. And he was in the ministry. But I'll just tell you what that, so when something 229 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,960 like that happens to you, now listen, the backstory is I had not a sweet clue what to do. 230 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,200 Yeah, definitely. This has happened more than once with all kinds of spiritual systems, but I'll 231 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:44,080 focus in on this one cause your time's going to run out. This one, I thought to myself, I must 232 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:50,080 understand how prayer for healing works in the Bible because we do see people dying when people 233 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,280 pray. We do see people getting partial recovery. We do see people having complete instantaneous healing. 234 00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,160 My wife was miraculously healed of muscular dystrophy when somebody said something from the 235 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:06,560 front of my church 20 years after we prayed every day. Yeah. Okay. And so why was the 20 years there 236 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,040 and it didn't happen? Why did it happen instantly? Only God knows the answer to that. Absolutely. 237 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,160 I bet. Yeah. I have other friends who receive a partial healing and they led to the pathway to a 238 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:22,960 remedy. And so the book outlines five different things that are involved in the ordinary Christian 239 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,840 life when it comes to prayer for healing. And if somebody had just told me this when I was early, 240 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,280 then I wouldn't have had all this trouble. Number one, there's the instant miraculous healing. I 241 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,960 just told you two stories. The one in depth with my friend in school, the other was my wife healed 242 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,640 instantly. The other is natural healing. Now let me tell you something. I didn't used to believe 243 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,920 that natural healing was miracle, but after my wife was healed of muscular dystrophy, 244 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,880 she used to lose every muscle if she damaged it and never get it back again. 245 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:01,840 And after she was healed, ordinary healing happened whenever she bruised her arm or cut her 246 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:09,120 finger, whatever, if she would heal. She never healed before. That means natural healing is 247 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:16,880 miraculous. Third category, pathway to a remedy. In fact, I'm going to be traveling overseas and I 248 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:22,960 had to get vaccines. The guy who did my vaccines just told me the story. He watched somebody 249 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:29,520 not get sick when they got vaccinated when he was a kid. He had the measles and the kid who 250 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,840 was in the same house as his brother got vaccinated when he got measles, he didn't get the measles. 251 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,880 So he realized he has to figure this out. So he became a vaccine specialist. It goes all over 252 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,120 the United States and Canada in lectures. Anyway, people just like that have, you know, 253 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:50,800 my wife's sister, there was somebody next door who died of polio and she got the Smelk vaccine 254 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,680 and she lived and she made the decision that she would research medicine so that people like her 255 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,720 neighbor next door would never die in ways like that. I mean, so people have these kinds of, 256 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:07,040 you know, dramatic encounters and they spend 10, 15, 20 years researching for a cure and they're 257 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:14,240 led by God. Somebody's got 20 years of research and passes you the cure, say yes! 258 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:24,800 The third one is suffering that seems to have no reason. And even sometimes you come to the end of 259 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,520 a long process and discover that there's a reason, sometimes you don't. That's called holy mystery. 260 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,400 And the last is miraculous crossing where you reach the end of your days and it's time to be 261 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:41,840 with the Lord. All five of those, all five of those are legitimate. And I want people to understand 262 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,840 that it's a healing prayer is God's idea. By the way, that wasn't my idea to pray for that guy. 263 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:55,920 So the title of the book is Healing Prayer, God's Idea. In fact, the secondary title for the book 264 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,880 would have been Healing by Surprise. It certainly wasn't my idea to go with that. That would have 265 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:08,560 been a better title. But regardless, the point I'm making is that people need to be trained in how 266 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,920 to do this. And if you don't train them, you're going to have a bunch of people making terrible 267 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,080 mistakes and doing ditzy crazy things. In fact, there's one chapter in the book where I talk about 268 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,720 pitfalls to avoid. Telling somebody they're sinning and they got their sickness because 269 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,280 they're sinning. That's stupid. I'm sorry. There's nobody in the Bible who does that. 270 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:27,760 Yeah. 271 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:35,840 Nobody. Oh, by the way, some people say, this is my cross to bear. God made me sick. Well, nobody 272 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,280 in the Bible says that either. Yeah. Yeah. What are you saying that? 273 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:44,800 We're definitely taking some of those things and out of context or overly thinking them. 274 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:50,640 Completely. Yeah. So somebody, some people say, listen, if you don't get your healing immediately, 275 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,680 just keep saying you got it, even if you don't, and it will manifest. Nobody in the Bible does 276 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:03,280 that either. Anyway, the point I'm making is you need to understand what you need to train people 277 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:10,480 one small step at a time to teach them how to understand what is helpful and what is appropriate, 278 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,480 what is pastorally sensitive when you're dealing with somebody who's afflicted or in trouble. 279 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:15,760 Yes. 280 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,800 The same is true for the prayer books that I've written and this one, this one, this was the fun 281 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:26,720 one. This one is teaching people 25 different ways to hear how God speaks. 282 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:36,400 Wow. Yeah. That's something that definitely could be useful to anyone. Yes. And that's something I 283 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,400 wouldn't mind getting for myself. And yes, that one. 284 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:47,600 By the way, this one, I think everybody's heard the voice. Yeah. Yeah. Senator John's gospel says 285 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:54,080 this, my sheep hear my voice. Yeah. I know them. They follow me. Yeah, definitely. That means it 286 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,720 doesn't have to be, you know, uh, the angel showing up in the bedroom when you're pondering your 287 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:04,640 decision. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be the Magi seeing the star move in the sky or it doesn't 288 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:13,840 have to be, you know, the burning bush with Moses. It can be an interior sense of being guided. 289 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,360 And when I teach this and show people from the scripture where this happens to people, 290 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,200 then they say, do you mean three years ago when I walked into that room and had a terrible feeling, 291 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:30,000 that was God warning me to get out of the room. I'll say, yeah, how many years have had that 292 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,480 happened? You know, almost all the hands in the room will go up. Right. And then when you walked 293 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,600 into that church and you were looking for a church home and suddenly the peace just washed over your 294 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:45,280 whole being and you don't think you belong. Was that Jesus telling me I fit? I said, yeah, how 295 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,280 many years have had that experience? Again, almost all the hands in the room go up. Then this one's 296 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,200 funny. I'll say to them, okay, anybody here sin now don't lie to church. Of course, every hand goes 297 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,160 up. I said, now when you did that, did you immediately have a conviction that you'd done 298 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:04,640 something wrong? All the hands go up. That's God talking. I said, now when you said, I want to, 299 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,040 I want to get out of this sin issue and you were guided to a way to get out of the sin issue 300 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,640 and you sensed consolation, interior peace and joy while you took those steps, has that ever happened 301 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:20,000 to you? And all the hands go up. I said, that would not be the devil. That would not be your flesh. 302 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:27,680 That would be God. What I do is I teach people to listen to the signals. And I give 25 different 303 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:33,520 signals of how God guides, how God leads, how God speaks. And then at the end, I put it into a process 304 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,640 to help groups of people learn how to listen, test and know when God speaks. 305 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:45,840 Well, that sounds like a great process. And Dr. Chaka, we are at at least 31 minutes. 306 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,440 I have enjoyed your stories and you know, I would love to invite you back to dig deeper into healing 307 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,400 prayer. I know you stated there were some five things and I would really love for our audience to 308 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:06,400 definitely be able to hear that. I'd be delighted to come back. Yes, I would. Yes. Yes. And then 309 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:12,640 that way we can have that discussion. Those, the backstories to all of this will definitely help 310 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,480 those of our audience who are listening to actually understand, you know, where these came from, 311 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,960 where the stories came from, if they have the book, you know, why they're here. And then like I said, 312 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,920 for us to have a second show to be able to break those five things down and to understand, 313 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,160 you know, your experiences and why you've moved in this direction and why you're near your eighth 314 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:40,400 book. So I really, I really appreciate you coming on and I thank you so much. You've shared a lot 315 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:47,200 of information. I definitely understand your vision and your vision is to follow God and to 316 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:53,120 to keep moving forward. All fathers should do the same. So can I tell people how to contact me? 317 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,000 Yes. I'd like to give a free gift. Actually, here's what I'd like to do. If you go on my website, 318 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,880 it's www.spiritequip, because that's what I do. I equip people in the spirit. So it's called 319 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:09,600 Spirit Equip and it's S-P-I-R-I-T and then equip like equipment, E-Q-U-I-P, put the two words together 320 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:16,640 dot com. And if you go there, there is a free audiobook chapter of chapter one of the healing 321 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:22,400 prayer book. And if your listeners would like to listen to, there's two stories there. The one I 322 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:28,400 just told you and the other, my co-writer, Dr. Maxi Dunham, he is, he tells the story of how his 323 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:35,760 grandson was miraculously healed of nysthygmus and optic nerve hypoplasia. Now you got to know 324 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:42,080 something. His daughter was married to a medical doctor. And so this one is not just medically 325 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:48,000 verified. It's medically impossible. And he tells the story in his own voice on the audiobook. 326 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,960 So people go there, they can listen to that and it's available where books are sold. But so the 327 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,160 easiest way to get it is www.spiritequip.com. Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that 328 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:03,760 you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes 329 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,440 continue to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more 330 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,680 engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show. And thank you for giving 331 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,640 us your time and attention. Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro 332 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:43,440 yourself.