1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,360 So how did you get started? 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:03,240 Great question. 3 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:04,000 I love this question. 4 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,240 I'll try to keep it brief, though. 5 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,200 So believe it or not, I've been in business for 20 years. 6 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,680 So I ran a marketing agency, which 7 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,440 we started straight out of university back in 2004. 8 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,720 Predominantly doing web design and branding. 9 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,720 And I learned a lot of what I know now 10 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,280 about the pricing, money mindset, sales, marketing, 11 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,320 all through just practicing, trying out different stuff 12 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,080 in that business. 13 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:29,560 And we grew it by the end of that 12 years, so 2016. 14 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,600 We'd grown it to about a quarter of a million pounds, 15 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,640 so about $300,000 revenue. 16 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,640 I had a small team of developers and designers. 17 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,560 It's just a fun little business, local sort 18 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,480 of marketing business. 19 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:43,680 But I reached a point I was in between daughters. 20 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,680 So my first daughter was about one, 21 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,760 and my second daughter was a couple of months away 22 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,000 from being born. 23 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,760 And I was just still doing, even after 12 years, 24 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,280 lots of all-nighters. 25 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:56,920 My team was a little bit dysfunctional 26 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,080 because I didn't have really the business experience. 27 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,920 I just learnt it on the job and grown my team organically. 28 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,880 We had a lot of demanding clients. 29 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,000 They expected a lot for the money which they paid us. 30 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,680 And I realized I just wasn't really that fulfilled. 31 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,120 I was just doing this thing day to day 32 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,040 without really having much vision or passion 33 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,600 or those sorts of things. 34 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,320 So my immediate thought was, oh, just quit 35 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:22,040 and then figure it out from there. 36 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,920 Of course, my wife's Mrs. Waits, eight months pregnant. 37 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,640 And the moment I went home and said, 38 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,960 I'm getting rid of the agency, the international sign 39 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:31,520 of distress, I was like, oh my god, 40 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:32,840 what a stupid decision, Robin. 41 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,920 What are you doing to us? 42 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,000 But actually, it ended up being the best decision ever. 43 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,880 So when word got out that I was exiting the agency, 44 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,600 somebody came to me and wanted to buy out my client base 45 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:44,800 and some intellectual property. 46 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,400 So again, not for a huge sum of money, 47 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,160 but enough that I had a bit of security for a year or two. 48 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,280 And I could rethink what it was that I wanted to, 49 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,880 why I was doing what I was doing. 50 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,560 So during my paternity leave, a few people said, 51 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,280 oh, we heard you sold your agency. 52 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,480 Do you think you could help us do that? 53 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,920 So I'm at Jovanco, I'm very easily swayed 54 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,200 when it comes to like cups of coffee and cake. 55 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,240 I'll give as much free advice away 56 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,200 when somebody puts a slice of cake in front of me. 57 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,440 So I did a bit of informal mentoring just for free, 58 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,280 basically, just to very quickly realize 59 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,040 the conversations I loved were the ones 60 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,840 where I was talking about strategy and goal setting 61 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,480 and pricing and going through the numbers 62 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,160 with the business owners. 63 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:29,840 And in the previous business, 64 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,880 when I tried to raise those conversations, 65 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,320 I used to get like the big hand, no Robin, 66 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:35,960 I just want you to build me a website. 67 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,080 And they didn't feel like they were interested 68 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,600 in my ideas for business growth. 69 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,120 So it really opened my eyes up 70 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,880 to sort of mentoring and coaching. 71 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,440 I did a couple of qualifications through Rich Litvin 72 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,760 as a big, like my hero when it comes to coaching. 73 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,120 He's one of the best coaches in the world. 74 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,880 He wrote this fantastic book called The Prosperous Coach, 75 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,440 which I think was like the third business book I'd ever read. 76 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,680 And again, just opened my eyes up to the potential 77 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,360 of like helping people, basically, 78 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,840 helping people to achieve stuff 79 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,680 that I got a bit stuck doing in my agency 80 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,520 that I now get to have these amazing conversations 81 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,480 with all sorts of really fun, interesting, 82 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,560 like creative people about how they can then transform 83 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,960 their business and not make the same mistakes 84 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,200 which I made back in my agency days. 85 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,040 Yeah, yeah. 86 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,480 Well, it all makes sense. 87 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,800 Once you realize, well, I'm sure Mrs. Waits was like, 88 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,560 wait, literally. 89 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,280 But those are the best moments to me 90 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,040 is when you can transition and it's smooth, right? 91 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,960 That tells you that there's something else. 92 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,960 What does that saying when one window closes, 93 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:43,920 another door opens kind of thing. 94 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,160 And so you had a bigger way of being able to maneuver 95 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,800 and start something that you truly love doing. 96 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,680 Tell me about your vision with Fearless. 97 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,480 So when I set out, and I'll be very honest, 98 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,200 I didn't necessarily have an external sort of, 99 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,680 a big vision externally for what I was creating. 100 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,840 I had much more of an intrinsic motivation 101 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,240 which I'm kind of like, 102 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,000 I need something specific to work to. 103 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,200 So initially my goal and it's, 104 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,600 I don't know, make of it what you will, 105 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:15,440 but basically I was like, 106 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,400 I wanna match the revenue in my agency 107 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,120 but do that as a one person, 108 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,640 one person like mighty small coaching practice. 109 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,600 So, yeah, just me on my own, 110 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,760 my goal was to get to 250K. 111 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,680 Initially, and how I kind of quantified the impacts of that 112 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,320 was like, well, if I'm making good money as a coach, 113 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,120 it means that I'm doing good stuff 114 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,000 for the business owners I get to work with. 115 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,800 And it was then through the sort of practice of coaching, 116 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,920 again, I had my eyes open to what the potential was 117 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,480 from coaching. 118 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,240 And I'll give you an example, 119 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,960 one of my early clients, 120 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:53,560 it was a husband and wife team. 121 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,000 Well, they weren't married at the time actually. 122 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,800 Rich and his wife, Amy, and Rich was a web designer. 123 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,320 So it's similar to what I used to do. 124 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,440 And they were living in a small house in Bristol. 125 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:05,560 They had two young kids. 126 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,360 Their dreams were they wanted a bigger house that they owned. 127 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:10,760 They wanted to get married. 128 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,760 Rich wanted an office so he could have somewhere to go 129 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,000 and do his work creatively without getting disturbed 130 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,400 by the family and children all the time. 131 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,040 Amy wasn't particularly happy in her job. 132 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:21,680 And so it was a long journey. 133 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,680 I mean, through the time that we spent working together, 134 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,840 they achieved all of those goals. 135 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:29,680 They bought their first house together. 136 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,720 They got that spare bedroom, which they wanted. 137 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,640 They got married. 138 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,160 They were able to afford to kind of save up and get married. 139 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,760 They got Rich his first office down in Clevedon. 140 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,720 And then Amy eventually was able to leave her job 141 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:44,560 in the public sector 142 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,920 and come and work in the family business now. 143 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,760 And I realized that that's the stuff 144 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,320 that's really, really important to me and to other people 145 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:54,800 and the impact which I can create. 146 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,360 And to give the balanced side of things, 147 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,760 whilst I was figuring this out, 148 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,560 there were other projects and businesses 149 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:04,440 that I got to work with. 150 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,000 But one was this, 151 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,960 and I'm really grateful I got this opportunity, 152 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,040 but it helped me kind of discern who it was 153 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,960 that I wanted to work with, what direction I wanted to take. 154 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,720 I got to work with a local law firm. 155 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,120 There was 160 people who worked in this law firm. 156 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,320 And I got to set up a pilot program, 157 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,800 use my knowledge around goal setting 158 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,400 and seeing what kind of turned people on 159 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,440 within their business that they were working within, 160 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,280 things like that. 161 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,560 And I was really grateful for the team 162 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,160 which I got to work with and the HR director there, 163 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:36,800 they took the pilot program and created 164 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:37,880 and rolled it out to the business. 165 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,440 But I couldn't see the tangible results and outcomes 166 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,080 from that big corporate entity. 167 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,040 And for me, with Rich and Amy, 168 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,520 now I get to work with dozens of Rich and Amys 169 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,560 on a daily basis almost. 170 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:54,960 Those little tiny things, 171 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:58,400 if they just increase their prices by 50%, 172 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,240 all of a sudden their profit grows by 120% 173 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,880 and then they can do all these amazing things, 174 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,640 persons like, brilliant, that fills me up. 175 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:06,600 Yeah, yeah. 176 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,200 And so the corporate was just a bit too corporate-ish, 177 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:12,280 if I may say. 178 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,080 And then, and I think when you do work 179 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,280 with a corporate business, it's a whole lot of people, right? 180 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,560 And then to bring them on and to collaborate 181 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,800 and get them all to be so engaged in the process 182 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,880 is a big difference from helping a couple 183 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:29,320 to start their business. 184 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,360 And it's also much easier to be able to see their path, right? 185 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,640 And then to get feedback on what you've done 186 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,320 to know that they've actually are succeeding 187 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,640 in the business that they set out for. 188 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,200 So when it comes to the strategies that you have 189 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,360 in helping businesses articulate their value, 190 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,480 what resonates with potential clients? 191 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,720 Yeah, so the story I always like to lead with 192 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,000 around the clients which I work with, 193 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,240 so I work a lot with what we call 194 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:59,360 service client businesses. 195 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,600 So a lot of coaches, consultants, freelancers, 196 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,120 they're typically charging or exchanging time for money 197 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:05,400 in some way, shape or form. 198 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,160 And what I've noticed a lot around sort of the fearless crew 199 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,760 is that they are like super smart people, 200 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,080 like really bright, they've got amazing ideas, 201 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,360 they get really great results for their clients 202 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:17,200 when they work with them. 203 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,880 And they absolutely love the thing which they do. 204 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,600 But a couple of problems come out of that 205 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,880 that they end up essentially becoming busy fools 206 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,520 and they get to the end of the month, 207 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,120 having done all this work and then they're like, 208 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:28,040 where's all the money? 209 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,000 Like, where's my reward for all of this hard work 210 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,000 which I'm putting in? 211 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,120 So when you start to unpack it, 212 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,120 when people sort of maybe shift from doing a job 213 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:38,960 and setting up their own company, 214 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,600 and I think more people should do it 215 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,440 because nobody really wants to work for the man these days. 216 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,560 Like it's so crushing sometimes 217 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,520 unless you're in a job you absolutely love. 218 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,640 But what they forget is that when you're in a job, 219 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,240 you're kind of getting paid just for doing one function, 220 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,880 one thing within that business, right? 221 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:57,760 When you're a business owner, 222 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,440 all of a sudden you've got your marketing hat, 223 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,920 your sales hat, your admin hat, your accounts hat, 224 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,080 like all of the different hats as well as doing the job. 225 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,240 So when you charge like an hourly rate or day rate 226 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:08,080 for the work you do, 227 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,240 you probably only maybe as a service provider 228 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,400 doing two to three days a week worth of paid work, 229 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,520 your earnings potential is limited. 230 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,760 So the first step which we typically take 231 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,000 with the clients we work with 232 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,720 is we do something called productizing their services. 233 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,600 So we build packages out of the thing which they do. 234 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,000 And the important thing is that rather than, 235 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,440 well, let's take a web design as a business 236 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:32,880 which I obviously know well. 237 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,040 So a lot of web designers are like, 238 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,920 well, we'll build you an HTML standards 239 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:36,960 compliant on WordPress 240 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,120 and it'll be search engine friendly 241 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,000 and we'll add 20 pages of content on there. 242 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,760 Well, all of that's great. 243 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,240 But like, why? 244 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,080 Why is that important? 245 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,640 Like what actually is the, 246 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,520 what are your clients really interested in? 247 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,080 People don't really want a website. 248 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:51,680 What they actually want is leads and inquiries 249 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:54,160 for their business and for that to turn into money, right? 250 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,200 So the first thing, there's three steps. 251 00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:59,920 We go, right, what's the dream outcome 252 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,080 which you deliver for your clients? 253 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,920 Put yourself in their shoes for a moment rather than yours. 254 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,920 What is it that they really need? 255 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,240 And often it comes down to typically saving 256 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,040 their clients more time and making them more money 257 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,800 or maybe giving them a bit more freedom 258 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,120 or happiness within the business which they run, for example. 259 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,520 So, but what is the dream outcome that you sell? 260 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,400 The second thing is, can it then be delivered 261 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,240 in a fixed period of time? 262 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:26,080 Okay. 263 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,080 And quite often this is where the first swear word comes out. 264 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:30,680 I'm not actually gonna swear by the way. 265 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:31,520 Yeah. 266 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,640 Fearless HQ, this is a swear word. 267 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,480 It depends. 268 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:37,600 It depends on the client. 269 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:38,960 It depends on the product. 270 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:39,920 It depends on what they need. 271 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,360 It depends, it depends on what they, right. 272 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,480 What it depends is code for is that we do too many things 273 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:49,920 for too many different types of customers. 274 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,160 Ah, okay. 275 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,440 Which kind of means we wing it 276 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,160 and we don't really have any systems or processes in place. 277 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,560 And every time they want something, 278 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:57,840 we just kind of make it up on the spot 279 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,720 and we give them whatever it is that they've asked for 280 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,600 irrespective of whether that's the thing they actually need. 281 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:03,480 Right. 282 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,880 So I help clients try and identify 283 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,480 what is the one thing you do really well 284 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,320 for one specific type of client. 285 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,160 Okay. 286 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,280 Because when you do one thing really well 287 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:12,720 for one specific type of client, 288 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,720 you can build systems around it, processes, 289 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,560 and step-by-step frameworks deliver the same 290 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:19,960 and predictable results for each of those clients 291 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,240 that you work with. 292 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,400 It helps you to discern which clients 293 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,480 do you actually wanna work with, qualify them formally, 294 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,080 which helps you to identify them 295 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,120 where you're gonna market yourself, 296 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,400 what niche are you gonna go into 297 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,200 and how are you gonna attract those clients. 298 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,320 So doing that one thing really well 299 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,120 has so many positive knock-on impacts, 300 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,120 but the challenge though, 301 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,000 and it means you can deliver then the results 302 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,520 within a predetermined like timeframe. 303 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:44,480 And yeah, it's a bell curve. 304 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:45,560 Some might take a little longer, 305 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:46,480 some might be a bit shorter, 306 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,160 but on the whole, you want a majority of clients 307 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,640 for your product to be delivered the result 308 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,360 within this set amount of time. 309 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:54,600 Okay. 310 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,240 But a lot of clients get very hung up on that concept 311 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,800 because they're like, oh, but if I niche, 312 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,840 if I only work with one client, it's gonna be boring. 313 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,880 Yeah, it will be. 314 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,560 The most successful businesses is like so boring, right? 315 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:10,400 We graced in 2024 to have these wonderful devices, right? 316 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,640 These iPhones and Samsung devices, 317 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,080 computers and the internet and stuff, right? 318 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,720 But yeah, it looks great. 319 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,520 It's very sexy products, 320 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,040 but it goes on a production line, 321 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,800 the same bit added to millions of different phones. 322 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,480 Imagine if they have to customize every single iPhone 323 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,320 that went out there 324 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,120 for every single different type of client, right? 325 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:29,680 It'd be impossible. 326 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:31,920 Yet they're one of the biggest companies on the market. 327 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,280 And you look at all the big companies, 328 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,160 actually at base level, they're a really boring business. 329 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,480 They just do the same thing really well 330 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,000 over and over and over again, right? 331 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,560 Yes, yes. 332 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:44,400 We know they're gonna release a new iPhone 333 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:45,640 every September, right? 334 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:46,480 It's predictable. 335 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,040 And it will look pretty much the same, 336 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,120 but we'll still buy it 337 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,520 because it's the same good quality over and over and over. 338 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,000 So what's the dream outcome that your clients want? 339 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,600 Can it be delivered in a fixed period of time? 340 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,200 And then the final part of the jigsaw puzzle is, 341 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,720 can we then put a fixed fee on that? 342 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:05,560 Okay. 343 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,800 Okay, so rather than, 344 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,360 let's say on the website side of things, 345 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,480 imagine like somebody's charging 50 bucks now 346 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,920 to build a website and they think, 347 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,440 they quote you 20 hours to do it. 348 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,040 So a thousand dollars for a website? 349 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,440 Okay, that seems fair enough. 350 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,560 And go away and start building it. 351 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,120 But then imagine what they forgot to tell you 352 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:23,360 is they haven't been doing it very long. 353 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:24,760 So they're not very good. 354 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,080 And because they're not charging enough, 355 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,280 they've taken on too many projects. 356 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,160 So your website eventually gets delivered 357 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,440 like three months later. 358 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,520 And then you're in the shopping cart 359 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:34,560 and then you're there like going, 360 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:35,960 hang on, that's not what I asked for. 361 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:36,800 And it's really late. 362 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,840 Like, so you're getting frustrated. 363 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,320 And they say, oh, well, I can add the blog 364 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,160 and the shopping cart on, 365 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,480 but I'll charge you an extra 10 hours for that. 366 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,920 And you're like, no, we agreed a thousand dollars. 367 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,560 Like why change it? 368 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,920 And then they reluctantly agreed to do the work. 369 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,520 So they're resentful because they've got to do this 370 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:53,480 extra work for free. 371 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,880 And you're resentful because you didn't get 372 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,400 what you've asked for in the first place. 373 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,560 So that's our first clue that hourly rates 374 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,720 really don't work, right? 375 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,920 The second clue, web designer number two comes along, 376 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,720 but they don't know what Robin and Jovan can know 377 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,120 about pricing. 378 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,600 So they're still charging $50 now. 379 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,560 However, brilliant, they've been doing it for years. 380 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,120 They like, they know all of the internet, 381 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,240 so yeah, all that sort of stuff. 382 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,520 And they're gonna build this great website. 383 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:19,680 It's gonna get you leads, got the blog, 384 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,120 got the shopping cart. 385 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,080 And they deliver it within a week. 386 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,120 But the thing is, because they're so good, 387 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:25,680 it's only taken them 10 hours. 388 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:26,520 Yeah. 389 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:27,360 Hang on. 390 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,280 The one who does the worst job takes a day to deliver. 391 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,240 It doesn't give you what you want, gets paid double 392 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,800 what the more experienced one is who does a better job. 393 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,400 Well, they do it faster and better 394 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,320 because they've been doing it for so long, right? 395 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:40,680 Yeah. 396 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,480 And then we've got web designer number three. 397 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,080 So Audrey comes into the mix, right? 398 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,520 She's a website ninja. 399 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,080 She's been building websites for years, 400 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,280 but she's really heavily focused on the dream outcome. 401 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,080 All right, I'm gonna, Jovanka, 402 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,160 Audrey's website is gonna generate you 15 to 20 solid leads 403 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,680 each and every month for your website, for your business. 404 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,600 But she charges 10K for those sites. 405 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,920 But now here's where it gets really interesting for me, okay? 406 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,240 So it is significantly more expensive, 407 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,480 but you probably know if you get 10 to 15 408 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,680 really good, well-qualified leads for your business, 409 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,560 probably you're gonna get your money back 410 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,040 pretty quickly off the back of that. 411 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,160 Yeah. 412 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,640 But she's so confident, Audrey, that she turns around 413 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,520 and she says, it's 10K, but if by the end of next month, 414 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,000 you haven't got 20 leads, we'll refund you the 10K 415 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,920 and I'll pay you a thousand dollars for wasting your time 416 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,680 so you can go and spend it on the other two guys. 417 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,400 Right, 10 times the price, but which of those three 418 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,960 would you probably most likely want to work with? 419 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,880 Absolutely, I'm going with the third. 420 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,160 Yeah, absolutely. 421 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:39,560 We all would, right? 422 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:40,720 Yeah. 423 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,920 So those three things, what it comes down to is like, 424 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,000 there's a lot of people who'll be thinking, 425 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,560 that's all well and good, Robin, 426 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,880 but I'm not sure I could do that. 427 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,400 And that immediately tells me 428 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,160 if there's a slight lack in confidence around, 429 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,680 like most people are like, 430 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,960 I'm not sure I could deliver those kinds of results. 431 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,640 I wouldn't want to guarantee that. 432 00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:59,480 Yeah. 433 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,080 That doesn't say anything about the clients. 434 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,600 It says more about confidence in your ability 435 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,360 to deliver your processes, your systems, 436 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,080 and like refining what it is that you do. 437 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,720 And use that as good positive feedback to make it better. 438 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,520 And then you can elevate your prices from there. 439 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,080 And I love the analogy that you used for the iPhone 440 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,640 because like you said, every September, 441 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,080 we're going to get a new one. 442 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,960 And then every September, there's a waiting list 443 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,040 before September comes and we all buy the same thing. 444 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,040 And it's not individually set for us to do it, right? 445 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:33,800 But yet it's a package deal. 446 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,520 And it's a package deal where you know, 447 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:36,960 you're going to pay that price, 448 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,040 you're going to get a phone, 449 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,840 and it's going to do exactly what you need it to do 450 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,360 eventually when you learn it 451 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,880 in the next two to three years, that one iPhone. 452 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,600 So I love the analogy of that. 453 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,600 And then so it's one, do you provide the dream outcome 454 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,280 of what you're selling, right? 455 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,480 And of what your client needs. 456 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,080 What's the outcome of that? 457 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,520 Two, can it be delivered in a fit time, right? 458 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,320 And then third, can we put a fixed fee, 459 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,360 not putting a fixed fee on it, right? 460 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:09,920 Which is what you're saying is an hourly fee. 461 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,960 It makes it a little bit more challenging. 462 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,120 However, if you package it, 463 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:17,200 then you have a different outcome 464 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,600 such as the last example that you gave me, 465 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,560 which was the 10K and then delivered. 466 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,200 And then if you don't like it, 467 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,040 you get money back plus, you know, plus some. 468 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,880 So I truly like the fact that you've been able 469 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,480 to tell the audience and how that works for you. 470 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,560 I just have a few more questions for you. 471 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,160 How do you measure business impact beyond the revenue? 472 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,360 Is it more about their successes? 473 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:52,040 Do they come back to you and give you feedback? 474 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,440 How do you measure the impact beyond the revenue? 475 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:55,560 Yeah, great question. 476 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,440 So things I look for is like the intangible stuff. 477 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,400 So my best clients, believe it or not, 478 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,200 are the ones who've never spent a penny with me. 479 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,880 They've never like, but it's because they haven't had 480 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,480 to invest in the coaching because they've got like enough 481 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,160 value out of all of the other stuff that I put out there. 482 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,280 One of the things, I'm in a bit of a, 483 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,680 one of those over the last year, 484 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,080 I've kind of been developing this concept around the fact 485 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,040 that good quality business advice should be democratized. 486 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,680 It should be free. 487 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,240 Cause I do believe that like free and good business advice 488 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,320 is gonna help people get the freedom which they wanna get. 489 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,360 But let's face it, there's a lot of people on this planet 490 00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:38,800 who can't afford, you know, to pay for, 491 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,400 to hire a coach or get a mentor, 492 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,360 or maybe just don't have access to the same opportunities 493 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:44,200 which I've had. 494 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,560 So the way I look at it is we probably only work 495 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,160 with about 30 or 40 clients a year, 496 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,040 but those 30 or 40 clients pay enough in amongst them. 497 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,320 And I've got a couple of other businesses as well 498 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,680 that I can give away, my goal is to give away 3000 copies 499 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,900 in my book every year to make sure that I'm contributing 500 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:03,840 to things like putting my content on YouTube, 501 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,840 having a blog which we update regularly 502 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,320 so that those who can't afford an expensive coach 503 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,080 or any coach for that matter can access business information 504 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:14,920 for free that might just be the catalyst 505 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,300 they need to get started. 506 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,760 So those are my measures at the moment. 507 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,880 It's like, how many books can I get into people's hands? 508 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,160 Can I get more subscribers to my YouTube channel 509 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,200 so they can watch like helpful videos? 510 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,200 At the moment, as part of this, 511 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,640 I'm doing a bit of a podcast tour. 512 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,760 So that again, there's limitations on how much 513 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,080 I can grow my audience. 514 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,880 You know, I try my best to grow as best I can, 515 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,040 but people like yourself, Jevank, 516 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,360 who've already got free built audiences, 517 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,520 let's partner up, let's spread good word 518 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:43,680 and give some advice out there. 519 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,400 If one person off the back of this podcast goes, 520 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:47,580 right, I'm gonna start a business 521 00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:49,040 or I'm gonna charge more, 522 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,040 you know, they elevate their vision for themselves, 523 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,000 then we're winning, right? 524 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,640 Absolutely, absolutely. 525 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:56,480 I love that. 526 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,960 And as we begin to close, what tips do you have, 527 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,900 my apologies, what tips do you have for entrepreneurs? 528 00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:06,640 You can just give me one. 529 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:07,480 Sure. 530 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,800 You've got me now because you know I talk a lot. 531 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,800 So that everybody has one little idea blossoming 532 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,120 that's just been sat in their head 533 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:21,440 for goodness knows how long. 534 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,840 And my advice is I'm one of those people, 535 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,000 I would rather know whether something's gonna work or not. 536 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,400 So my advice is my tip is like, 537 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,280 if you've got that thing bubbling away, 538 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:32,760 do something with it, JFDI, 539 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,840 because otherwise like you'll never know, 540 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,440 you're just sit on it and procrastinate for like years 541 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,760 and maybe take it to your grave, I don't know. 542 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,800 Maybe have some regret around it. 543 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,920 I don't want that for you, just do it. 544 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,300 Thank you for being here today. 545 00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:47,800 I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. 546 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,440 I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions 547 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,720 as these episodes continue to move forward. 548 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,440 This is gonna get more and more fun. 549 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,240 We'll have more and more engagement as well. 550 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,360 We'll invite people to participate in the show. 551 00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:00,720 And thank you for giving us your time and attention. 552 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,440 Have an excellent time building out your vision 553 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:10,440 and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.