So go into detail because I'm sure, you know,
those that probably watched the last one will need to know
more about your business and what you do.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I work in a field called the behavioral science
of attraction, which is really looking at what is it
that you are unconsciously attracting into your life
from a relationship point of view,
and what do you need to be attracting into your life
to be happy long-term, and how do you go about doing that?
So a lot of the work that I do is really rooted
at looking at what's going on in the subconscious, right?
And essentially, the outcome is helping you
either fix your marriage, transform your relationship
for the positive, or find healthy love.
So I work with people who are either single
and looking for that special person
to ultimately spend their life with,
or people who are already in that relationship,
but maybe it's not going the way that they want it to go.
So maybe they're feeling disconnected,
maybe they're feeling a bit lonely in that dynamic.
I see that a lot.
Maybe they're feeling unsupported,
and they don't really want to drag their partner
to marriage counseling, which we actually know data shows
that 38% of people still end up divorced anyway,
not necessarily a silver bullet.
And they don't want to do tons of therapy either,
because it's slow, right?
Therapy is pretty slow.
They want answers now, they want to get clarity now,
and they want to fix things.
So really, that's my specialization.
And the way that I do that is through this methodology
that I call the Successful in Love Method,
which I built myself based on my own trajectory
of going from a really unhappy engagement
to being happily married.
And all of that is really work that you can do yourself.
So it's not something that you have to drag your partner into.
It's not something that you have to kind of do as homework,
and no one's ever doing it.
It's really stuff that you can do on your own
with your own time.
It doesn't even take that much time.
All of the people I work with are very high achieving,
busy professionals.
They're really looking at 15 minutes a day.
And it's stuff that you can do within 90 days to six months
to really turn things around.
I love that.
And as I mentioned to you before,
I am super shocked that this is something that you work with,
because you do find a lot of, you said high performing,
and I'm thinking of C-suite high up in their job working
pretty much 80 to 90 hours a week.
And either they are missing out on love,
household is affected by the work.
But I love the fact that you are touching
this specific audience or specific client tail.
Because if they're so successful in their business
and lacking that in their relationship,
it just sets their life off for a lack of balance,
which I believe we all have.
But I believe there's this innate need to feel and be
loved.
And so I love that you're working on that with them.
One of the things that you mentioned
is counseling therapy could be slow.
And the first thing that popped in my mind is we have an hour,
and you have them sitting there looking at the time.
Right?
Like you said, people that don't have much time and want to,
I don't say want to fix it, but want to answer sooner than later
to where they're going, this is definitely an option for them
to be able to work on that.
So when you do dive in and you get into this
with your clients, what's the biggest transformation
you've seen in your clients recently?
Yeah, it's so lovely.
I mean, I was saying to my husband this morning,
I got two bits of client feedback.
They were like, I'm so grateful.
Like you're changing my life.
And it's like the loveliest thing to wake up to.
Truly is.
It's the best.
The biggest transformation that I see,
and I'm going to speak specifically about people
who are in relationship, because the people who are single,
I mean, biggest transformation is
to get into a happy relationship.
Right?
It's like it's pretty obvious.
Or I will say I've had a couple of clients
who they actually come to the conclusion
that they don't even need a relationship,
that they're actually so fine and happy on their own
after doing this inner work.
And funnily enough, that's when the relationship comes as well.
Right?
When you can really let go because you're feeling so good.
But the people in relationship, the biggest transformation
is typically this.
So the person that I'm working with,
whoever in that relationship it might be,
the male or the female, whatever it is,
and they will start doing the inner work.
They will start feeling that transformation
and start to kind of take that responsibility
over their side of the street, what they're
bringing to the table, their blocks, their patterns,
their projections, their communication style,
their triggers, their emotional volatility,
because we all do that.
And they start to, on an unconscious level,
regain control of it.
Right?
So we're kind of clearing the triggers,
we're clearing the blocks, and making sure
that everything is being taken care of.
And they can feel that they have done everything in their power
to transform that dynamic.
They have a clean conscience.
And so they're doing this work.
They typically start to become very securely attached,
if we're not attached to theory.
They become very kind of stable, calm, grounded, at peace,
happy, confident, all the good things.
The partner will obviously feel this,
because the dynamics shifted now.
Right?
The person's not getting triggered anymore.
They're not yelling at them anymore.
They're not being passive aggressive.
And so the partner will feel it.
And it's so funny, so often the partner will actually
freak out.
Because they're like, this is a new person.
What's going on?
Are you having an affair?
Like, what's happening?
And that is actually where, very often, the client
will actually admit to their partner that, you know what?
I've been doing some relationship coaching.
I've been working with Katharina.
And they kind of open up on their work.
And that's when the other partner will very typically
be quite shocked at how bad things have got.
And that's almost like the kind of the wake up call
that they need.
And they're going to see their partners
in doing all this incredible work and really leveled up.
It's inspiration for them to do the same.
There's no nagging.
There's no dragging them to the therapist's office, literally
from a place of inspiration.
And so what happens then is that the partner,
the opposing partner, will either actually step up,
get their own help, their own support, and do the work.
And the whole relationship will change for the better.
Or they don't.
They don't, right?
And that's what happened to me twice,
that the partner just didn't step up.
And the client realized that this
is kind of irreparable, that now that they're securely attached,
now that they're feeling good, that they can actually do better.
They deserve more from that relationship.
And so they've left.
But their leaving has always been
from a place of confidence and clarity.
So the transformation is pretty big, right?
It's saving the marriage or getting something new.
So it is significant.
Very important.
I think that is so interesting because I'm
a firm believer in trying to work things out,
a goal of not fixing, right?
Because fixing means just a whole different ball game,
but working things out and making sure
that I hold myself accountable first and then there figure out
what's going on with me.
Like you said, subconsciously, what's going on with me,
so then that I can give a different reaction.
So as you mentioned, so it's either a better relationship
or they see that they deserve or want more.
And I think that that happens a lot when
it comes to therapy, one person.
And I like that you're doing it individually, right?
You're not working on both at the same time
because I see that conflict.
Disclosingly, I've been in couples counseling.
You feel like one side's being taking more or the other side
or you're really speaking to them and not necessarily me.
So you have, Ketanita, you have the opportunity
to just focus on one person thereafter once they're
aware of what they're going through
or what part they played, they can now
help educate the partner.
So have you found that some of these partners
are not receptive in a negative way?
They feel that their partner has done better,
but they've done it without them?
Yeah, really good question.
I've not found the partner to be negative towards the work.
I will say that I have a couple of clients
who haven't disclosed to their partner
that they're doing this work because they're
afraid of the reaction, which I can understand.
And to that end, I'm such a believer
that transparency and honesty are fundamental foundations.
And yet, you don't have to, when it comes to mental health,
when it comes to doing this inner work,
I do believe that you are entitled to your privacy
until you get to that safe and solid ground where
you have that free will decision of,
I feel safe now to disclose this information.
And even then, I don't think you have to go to the nitty gritty.
You get to work on your own in a landscape, whatever
you need to do, as long as the outcome is ultimately
for the greatest good of yourself
and the relationship.
So I can imagine one instance, for example,
that I'm working with right now that the partner wouldn't
receive it well.
But hopefully, that doesn't happen, right?
Yeah, and you can, in my mind, I'm
just thinking what that looks like.
And I'll describe it as me feeling so happy,
almost like a rebirth, right?
That I'm working with you, and I'm exploring,
and I realize I can do better.
And when you feel like you can do better and you do better,
and again, like you said, those questions
might come up with a partner.
Are you cheating? What's happening?
Aren't accepting of you doing the work alone?
But that proudness of like, hey, I did the work.
Now I'm coming back to you.
We can do this.
Or that person changes and says, I
don't know if I like the happy, accountable, accepting person
and who I am.
So I just think that it's a dynamic that
is imperative to work on self and then
the subconscious thoughts to work through these things.
I guess just the thought of knowing that it could possibly
end.
Yeah.
And you know what?
It's such an important point that you're making.
Because if we take success to be the greatest
good for both parties, right?
Sometimes that doesn't mean the relationship's
going to have to end.
Because the foundations upon which that relationship was
built were very insecure.
It could be that you are very vulnerable,
that you are very needy.
You are very anxious when you got into that first relationship.
Maybe you didn't know what was compatible with you,
which most people don't.
Maybe you were young.
And now as time has passed and you've matured and landed
into your own skin and you've developed confidence
and self-love and you know your worth
and you look at your partner, it's completely fair
to say that sometimes it's not good enough.
That's what happened to me, ultimately.
As I started doing this work in my first engagement,
I realized that we are fundamentally incompatible.
And actually to stay together is a disservice
to me and to him.
It's not fair on either of us, right?
There's nothing bad.
It's a good thing.
11 months later I met my husband and it's
a whole different dynamic.
And I would like to think that he will meet someone else too
if he hasn't already.
It's like there's an element of freedom here.
Freedom to level up and be your best self
and see what happens.
Do you come back together?
Do you make some time apart to both work on yourself
and level up and then come back together?
Yeah.
Every relationship is going to be unique here.
And just forcing it to stay together
is by no means an indicator of success.
Yes, yes.
And the fear of the unknown when you do
begin to work on yourself and then you
find out all these things about yourself,
it is scary to be going through this life like,
will I find someone else?
And disclosing and being transparent,
I am in my third marriage and happy.
However, I have no regrets.
No regrets of the two other marriages
because if we don't take ourselves accountable,
reflect, and see what we've done differently,
not the blaming game.
What could I have done differently in that marriage,
that situation to make it a more positive experience,
not only for myself but the other person.
So that's the considering someone else
and doing it unselfishly.
I believe some of my therapy was based off
of trying to figure out where I was and where I was going.
But also, we don't realize how much this
sets us up for an amazing, more engaging
and intimate relationship in the future.
But the fear of the unknown is super crazy.
Not to mention, you are working with individuals that are,
if I may do air quotes, are super successful.
So then they get to this point where the unknown for them is,
are they with me for my money?
Oh, yeah.
Are they with me for my fame?
So how would you work through that for someone now
is scared, is like, OK, what happens now?
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And that's such a valid fear, right?
Ultimately, it comes down to learning to trust yourself.
It's not about trusting the other person.
It's about trusting yourself to pick up on the signs
and read the room and read the other person
and make the right decisions and take action on that.
One of the biggest things that I have a podcast
that's said on this is we often get at our instinct.
We often feel intuitively that this isn't right
or maybe this person should be suspicious of.
And there are two instincts we can have.
One isn't a real instinct.
It's just fear kicking in.
And it sounds very convincing.
And you drop down through that.
Then you have the real gut instinct,
which is typically from the lower belly.
And it's much deeper and insidious.
And it feels expansive and true.
When you have that, if you don't take action on your instinct,
you are literally eroding your own self-trust
because you are unconsciously communicating to yourself,
I'm not listening to you.
Yeah.
What you just said isn't important, right?
And that's where it starts to get really tricky.
And so such a big part of the work that I do
is teaching people how to trust themselves,
how to trust their body, how to trust their instinct,
and cut through the noise of the anxiety, which
may have wisdom behind it, absolutely,
but sometimes may just be an old past projection
that's kind of running on loop.
And that's the only way that you can really know, right?
And you know that word trust.
It's so funny because most people use the word trust
as trusting others, right?
But the big thing that you just said is trusting yourself.
And I don't think we put a value or even a thought
about how important it is to trust ourselves.
And once we understand what that feels like,
I think that's when we can start gauging the room
and trusting other people.
So now my head is just going all over the place
thinking that trust is far beyond trusting someone
you don't know, right?
Because they can present to you trust.
And then you can gain it or you decrease it,
and then you decide what to do with that relationship.
What do you do with yourself?
It's not like you can gain more trust,
or you have to just at least have
the basics of the foundation of trusting.
So how do you have that discussion
to tell people when it is safe to trust themselves?
So a big part of the practice that I teach
is learning to work with the body,
some of mine is on this teacher as well.
And it really comes down to learning to discern in your body
what is the response when it's a fear or an anxiety that's
coming from the past, right?
Like when it's a past projection,
where does it live in the body?
How does it feel in the body?
Get really familiar with that.
And then getting familiar with what is a gut instinct?
What is it in a knowing?
They're going to be two very different sensations.
And ultimately, you want to get to a place where it starts
to feel very automatic.
And then you feel that gut instinct.
And you know this is a message, and I'm
going to go listen to it, and I'm actually
going to do something about it.
And then it's kind of like an experiment, right?
Like the first time you're doing this,
you're starting out, absolutely.
Try acting on it in a kind of small way.
If it doesn't seem like the right thing to do, then sure.
Maybe you haven't figured out that instinct yet, right?
A bit more practice is needed.
Start small.
Like if you have an instinct, oh, maybe I
didn't lock the door in the car, right?
Go back and check.
If you haven't locked it and the instinct was flaring,
then absolutely, well done.
You can now trust it.
It's going to keep building.
It's not that you have to make a big decision of,
I'm just going to leave my partner on the back of doing
this once.
It's a little micro, micro movements, micro actions
over time that build that muscle and kind of develop evidence
that you can trust yourself.
And I love that you use the word micro, which is baby steps.
Oh, yeah.
One degree shift.
Yeah, don't go big, right?
Talk about the car door first.
Don't talk about money decision or relationship decision.
Being your marriage, yeah.
Let's go small.
So with all of this, and of course,
like I stated, this is our second visit.
Tell me about your vision in this all.
Yeah, and it's such an interesting question
because I actually started my career, well,
the second half of my career was in philanthropy.
My big mission was international development,
international aid, helping people at scale.
And I burnt out.
I burnt out, right?
And now I've kind of pivoted since I moved
into behavioral science to I truly believe that the world
will be a better place.
Things like climate change, animal cruelty, racism,
like global hostility, wars, et cetera,
they are going to be diminished when
we learn to be more in love with ourselves and with others.
It's just a fact, right?
The more healthy and secure and loving
that you can be in your day to day with yourself
and with your beloved and with others,
the happier you're going to be, the nicer you're going to be,
the better the planet's going to be.
And ultimately, the high performance that I work with,
you're probably going to be in a position of power, right?
You're going to be in a position of power.
You're not saying you have to be a CEO,
but you're going to have a lot of leverage.
So let's make that leverage good.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions
as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show.
And thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision
and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.