1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,840
Awesome.

2
00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,520
Uh, yeah, I, I never made it up to Washington yet.

3
00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:08,640
I'd love to, uh, we made it up to the very tip of the bottom of Oregon.

4
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,640
Uh, when we did a 41 day road trip up to California coastline route one.

5
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:13,680
Oh yeah.

6
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:14,200
I've been on that.

7
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,200
It's beautiful.

8
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:15,680
Yeah.

9
00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:16,560
Yes.

10
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:16,960
Yeah.

11
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,600
So come, if you come to watch, when you come to Washington, come after, after

12
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,200
July 4th and before September 1st, because that's when it's perfect here.

13
00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:31,120
I mean, just is heaven on earth the rest of the year is raining during that, you

14
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,380
know, six week window or whatever, like it's perfect.

15
00:00:33,660 --> 00:00:34,540
Oh, that's awesome.

16
00:00:34,740 --> 00:00:38,220
And you guys got to hear live right there, the copy tweak that he made.

17
00:00:38,460 --> 00:00:38,980
Um, right.

18
00:00:38,980 --> 00:00:41,460
If you, when you come, um, right.

19
00:00:41,460 --> 00:00:46,780
So Jon's got skills when it comes to copywriting and repurposing content,

20
00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:48,500
making sure content is optimized.

21
00:00:48,780 --> 00:00:50,100
Uh, we're going to be talking about that.

22
00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:54,540
We're also going to be talking about the scary truth of marketing for a lot of

23
00:00:54,540 --> 00:01:02,060
you because I see so many small and it's been this way for decades now, um, small

24
00:01:02,060 --> 00:01:04,980
businesses, most of you are not designed to have a blog.

25
00:01:05,540 --> 00:01:07,940
This, this is not, everybody tells you to do it.

26
00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:11,860
The content treadmill though, on the other side, um, is something that so

27
00:01:11,860 --> 00:01:16,460
many people get stuck on or that content rat race, they say content is king.

28
00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:20,420
I am here to say quality content is king.

29
00:01:20,740 --> 00:01:21,900
Content is garbage.

30
00:01:21,900 --> 00:01:24,580
Um, but quality content is king.

31
00:01:24,580 --> 00:01:27,500
You really want to stand out and above the crowd with this.

32
00:01:27,660 --> 00:01:30,540
And so escaping the copywriting trap.

33
00:01:31,020 --> 00:01:35,020
Well, the best type of, of medicine is prevention, right?

34
00:01:35,060 --> 00:01:36,380
Don't get into it.

35
00:01:36,420 --> 00:01:40,060
Figure out what your irresistibility is first, figure out who you're serving,

36
00:01:40,060 --> 00:01:43,580
how you're serving, ask them lots of questions and figure out what they actually

37
00:01:43,580 --> 00:01:48,380
need once you started to understand that, then make sure that you go to the right

38
00:01:48,380 --> 00:01:54,340
of team to get help because copywriters aren't meant to work alone.

39
00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:56,740
It's it's a copywriting process.

40
00:01:56,740 --> 00:02:01,220
There's a copywriter and editor, a publisher, a historian, um, somebody

41
00:02:01,220 --> 00:02:02,700
who's doing R and D based on that.

42
00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:05,660
Like the, it takes a whole group of people, including yourself.

43
00:02:06,060 --> 00:02:08,380
So if I'm bursting your bubble right now, you're welcome.

44
00:02:09,220 --> 00:02:13,860
Don't get into this without having a clear strategy on the front end.

45
00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:16,100
Jon, feel free to debate and argue with me on that.

46
00:02:16,140 --> 00:02:17,700
Let's, let's start diving into that.

47
00:02:17,700 --> 00:02:18,260
I'll shut up.

48
00:02:18,780 --> 00:02:19,220
Yeah, man.

49
00:02:19,220 --> 00:02:19,580
I will.

50
00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:23,260
So first of all, it's hilarious because I actually have a LinkedIn newsletter

51
00:02:23,260 --> 00:02:27,540
called content is king, but I actually agree with you that it's quality content.

52
00:02:28,020 --> 00:02:31,220
Like you said, like anybody can throw out, especially with AI, which I'm

53
00:02:31,220 --> 00:02:35,820
sure we can talk about anybody can throw about crap all day long and it's

54
00:02:35,820 --> 00:02:37,380
not going to do anything for you.

55
00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:39,500
So you want a crap audience.

56
00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:40,060
Yeah.

57
00:02:40,060 --> 00:02:40,380
Right.

58
00:02:40,380 --> 00:02:45,820
If you want a crap audience, if you want to, if you, I, if you want to fill a

59
00:02:45,820 --> 00:02:48,540
page with the words, then you please use AI.

60
00:02:48,580 --> 00:02:49,300
Don't come to me.

61
00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:49,540
Right.

62
00:02:49,540 --> 00:02:52,140
But if you want the quality, right, that's where the team comes.

63
00:02:52,140 --> 00:02:53,620
I love that perspective.

64
00:02:53,620 --> 00:02:54,820
I'm not to steal that by the way.

65
00:02:54,940 --> 00:02:55,540
Please do.

66
00:02:55,540 --> 00:02:58,140
Please save our, our copywriting industry friends.

67
00:02:58,540 --> 00:03:02,420
Um, cause there's so many that it's like the marketing guy, marketing gal.

68
00:03:03,380 --> 00:03:03,900
Bullcrap.

69
00:03:03,980 --> 00:03:04,860
There's no such thing.

70
00:03:05,980 --> 00:03:11,300
It's called a marketing department and a department consists of more than one ego.

71
00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:15,300
So you get these people who, who claim, you know, that they can do it all alone.

72
00:03:15,580 --> 00:03:19,820
And that boxes these solarpreneurs and entrepreneurs into situations

73
00:03:19,820 --> 00:03:21,380
where they don't know any better.

74
00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:24,980
And so they think that, Oh, I'll just get a heart surgeon who doesn't need a team.

75
00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:29,900
It's like that's not, that's not how heart surgeries performed successfully.

76
00:03:30,220 --> 00:03:32,420
That's not how copywriting comes together successfully.

77
00:03:32,420 --> 00:03:34,340
It's not how marketing comes together successfully.

78
00:03:34,340 --> 00:03:40,260
So if we can get entrepreneurs trained up on hiring the right types of entities

79
00:03:40,260 --> 00:03:45,700
and we can get, you know, or, or individuals to come into a team environment,

80
00:03:45,740 --> 00:03:49,020
then you can produce stuff that works really well.

81
00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:53,100
But there's, you know, Jon, do you, do you handle the formatting as

82
00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:54,900
well of posts that go out?

83
00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:55,300
I do.

84
00:03:55,460 --> 00:03:59,900
Yeah, actually for formatting is one of those things that like nobody thinks

85
00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:01,860
about, but it's like super important.

86
00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:05,340
I mean, yes, I always tell people like, think about it.

87
00:04:05,380 --> 00:04:09,300
Think about the last time you went to a webpage or open an email on your phone

88
00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:10,940
and it was a giant wall of texts.

89
00:04:11,300 --> 00:04:12,500
Like how far did you get?

90
00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:16,860
Like I, I'll have people just, just people I know sending me emails and it's

91
00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:19,820
like, they wrote a book and I'm just like, well, I guess I'm not reading that email.

92
00:04:21,140 --> 00:04:21,540
Yes.

93
00:04:21,540 --> 00:04:22,780
I'm going to ask my wife what it said.

94
00:04:22,780 --> 00:04:23,780
I'm not going to read that.

95
00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:28,420
So yeah, formatting is super, super important and there's just some really

96
00:04:28,460 --> 00:04:31,580
basic things to know about it that.

97
00:04:32,820 --> 00:04:36,660
You know, I can do, honestly, anybody can do is just a matter of like, you know,

98
00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:39,580
how, like when you learn something and you go, oh, that was obvious.

99
00:04:39,580 --> 00:04:40,980
Why did I never know that before?

100
00:04:40,980 --> 00:04:44,260
Well, yeah, it's obvious after you know it, but you need that person to tell you.

101
00:04:44,820 --> 00:04:45,100
Yeah.

102
00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:46,340
And then it becomes obvious, right?

103
00:04:46,340 --> 00:04:47,620
That's what format is for me.

104
00:04:48,220 --> 00:04:48,900
Oh, it's huge.

105
00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:54,260
And on the, do you edit your own copy or how do you go about the editing process?

106
00:04:54,420 --> 00:04:54,740
Yeah.

107
00:04:54,740 --> 00:04:56,700
So it depends.

108
00:04:56,940 --> 00:05:00,820
Um, because my strength is in words, right?

109
00:05:00,820 --> 00:05:03,220
I can kind of do all the things fairly well.

110
00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:04,900
I mean, that's what my business is built on.

111
00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:08,540
So I might not be a great example for the typical entrepreneur, cause I just

112
00:05:08,540 --> 00:05:10,420
happened to deal in that subject anyway.

113
00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:14,620
But even so, like I work with clients, um, and it is a team effort.

114
00:05:14,620 --> 00:05:19,420
Like I have a client who I write all of their ads for their newsletters, for

115
00:05:19,420 --> 00:05:22,220
example, and so I'm working with that client.

116
00:05:22,260 --> 00:05:25,260
And then what I come up with gets through their reviews.

117
00:05:25,260 --> 00:05:28,820
And then it goes to the sponsor who's paying for the ad ultimately to get their

118
00:05:28,820 --> 00:05:31,660
reviews and yeah, so it's just collaborative.

119
00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:33,860
Those are two editors in the process.

120
00:05:33,860 --> 00:05:35,460
Those are people who are paying attention to it.

121
00:05:35,780 --> 00:05:40,580
And, and it sounds like you appreciate the editing that comes from.

122
00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:41,140
I do.

123
00:05:41,180 --> 00:05:41,500
Yeah.

124
00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:45,300
I tell all of my clients, uh, that I have thick skin.

125
00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:49,900
If I'm wrong, please tell me, you will not hurt my feelings.

126
00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:50,140
Right?

127
00:05:50,140 --> 00:05:54,180
Like I want it right more than I want to feel good about being able to nail it

128
00:05:54,180 --> 00:05:55,020
the first time, right?

129
00:05:55,020 --> 00:05:57,340
So yeah, editing to me is, is critical.

130
00:05:57,340 --> 00:05:58,980
And of course I edit other people's work too.

131
00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:03,180
So I expect that they understand that I am doing this for their, for

132
00:06:03,180 --> 00:06:04,460
their benefit, right?

133
00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:06,540
We're trying to achieve a goal together.

134
00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:08,900
This is not a, a combative thing.

135
00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:10,220
This is a together thing.

136
00:06:10,580 --> 00:06:10,940
Right.

137
00:06:11,140 --> 00:06:15,420
And this is, this is what again, and it's, it's just a market where it's so

138
00:06:15,420 --> 00:06:17,220
easy to get a job as a copywriter.

139
00:06:17,820 --> 00:06:21,340
Um, you know, it's so easy to get hired for, you know, like cheap, if you're

140
00:06:21,340 --> 00:06:25,340
willing to do things cheap, um, too, then a lot of people are willing to hire.

141
00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:30,980
And then, so people end up building these portfolios of working with business

142
00:06:30,980 --> 00:06:35,460
owners who don't know how to edit or audit the quality of the messages.

143
00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:39,220
And so you can have a copywriter who's been hired by a hundred companies

144
00:06:39,220 --> 00:06:44,660
that never make any money, but he's got 100 testimonials of people.

145
00:06:44,660 --> 00:06:47,620
And it's like, Oh, well, I guess they're going to be awesome because

146
00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:49,060
they have a hundred testimonials.

147
00:06:49,620 --> 00:06:53,620
And you're not going to get somebody who's got thick skin.

148
00:06:53,820 --> 00:06:56,700
You're going to get somebody who's a little bit pretentious, a little bit

149
00:06:56,700 --> 00:07:00,180
protective, a little bit like, what do you mean all my other clients were

150
00:07:00,180 --> 00:07:02,820
excited? Um, all my other clients loved what I did.

151
00:07:03,140 --> 00:07:09,380
I see that happening so often in two spaces with copywriters and with designers.

152
00:07:10,020 --> 00:07:14,100
Um, you know, a lot of designers are glorified tattoo artists.

153
00:07:14,820 --> 00:07:16,900
They have no idea how the strategy works.

154
00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:21,540
They will just design exactly what the business works once no matter if it's

155
00:07:21,540 --> 00:07:25,060
actually in the right direction or not strategically, uh, you run into that as.

156
00:07:25,060 --> 00:07:26,420
Well, I do.

157
00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:29,220
And actually funny enough, my wife is a graphic designer.

158
00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:33,380
And so she, she probably actually has a worse time of it than I do, because

159
00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:38,900
I feel like graphic design is even more subjective than written content.

160
00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:43,060
Um, and to your point, like we have talks, we talk all the time, like, what

161
00:07:43,060 --> 00:07:49,220
do you do when you design a very high quality graphic or image for your

162
00:07:49,220 --> 00:07:52,660
clients, but they want something else.

163
00:07:52,660 --> 00:07:56,180
They want something that's actually not as good because that's their vision.

164
00:07:56,180 --> 00:07:59,620
Yep. And, you know, at what point do you try to convince them and what point

165
00:07:59,620 --> 00:08:00,660
to say, well, you're paying.

166
00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:03,540
So I guess, you know, it's really hard to judge that all the time.

167
00:08:03,940 --> 00:08:05,460
It is the cash 22.

168
00:08:05,460 --> 00:08:09,300
And that's, it's really what this topic is all about the escaping the trap,

169
00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:12,660
whether it's copywriting or design as entrepreneurs, we've got to be

170
00:08:12,660 --> 00:08:14,820
envisioners, we've got to become better at interviewing.

171
00:08:15,540 --> 00:08:15,860
Right.

172
00:08:15,860 --> 00:08:19,300
We've got to become better at defining scope of works and understanding

173
00:08:19,460 --> 00:08:21,300
how to articulate what it is we want.

174
00:08:21,460 --> 00:08:25,220
I went through a massive painful learning curve of this myself, where

175
00:08:25,220 --> 00:08:30,020
I fired my first three designers, you know, and I pointed the finger at

176
00:08:30,020 --> 00:08:33,860
them until I remember the quote, you know, three fingers are pointing back at me.

177
00:08:34,660 --> 00:08:36,740
Were they all perfectly qualified?

178
00:08:36,980 --> 00:08:41,540
No, they weren't, but I didn't know what I didn't know about how to hire and how

179
00:08:41,540 --> 00:08:44,420
to engage these individuals and how to set them up for success.

180
00:08:44,660 --> 00:08:49,060
There's a lot of little lessons I learned along that way that I hope this episode

181
00:08:49,060 --> 00:08:51,620
and other episodes will help you work through.

182
00:08:51,620 --> 00:08:55,780
So we were talking about the idea of formatting and most of us know that,

183
00:08:55,860 --> 00:08:59,860
you know, like how to break up a paragraph so that it's structured differently.

184
00:09:00,420 --> 00:09:02,180
I want to go to one of the OGs.

185
00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:07,220
This is digitalmarketer.com and it's their blog and the formatting we're

186
00:09:07,220 --> 00:09:12,100
talking about too is having the right size and font color, knowing how long

187
00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:13,540
these sentences are supposed to be.

188
00:09:13,540 --> 00:09:17,300
So you don't distract people too much knowing how to split your content

189
00:09:17,300 --> 00:09:20,900
up so that it's, it's easy to get to the time that you're going to be

190
00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:24,580
in the right place, but you don't want to be distracted by the type of content

191
00:09:24,580 --> 00:09:30,660
you might want to see having consistency of imagery knowing to have this sidebar

192
00:09:30,660 --> 00:09:34,500
here of when was this published, you know, has this stood the test of time or not

193
00:09:34,660 --> 00:09:38,980
having, you know, do you want to have an ad for your other content built into it?

194
00:09:39,860 --> 00:09:42,340
You know, again, how long should these sentences be?

195
00:09:42,340 --> 00:09:48,100
They, they go to through meticulous detail to create content that is divided

196
00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:51,460
in to noodle

197
00:09:52,180 --> 00:09:56,100
as, but you don't want to be distracted by the type of content

198
00:09:53,300 --> 00:10:09,860
to have on top of that as well.

199
00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:58,660
on top of it, right?

200
00:09:58,660 --> 00:10:02,340
You know, I personally don't do that and at feature, quantity itself,

201
00:10:02,340 --> 00:10:06,500
which I clay a, but I don't like to generalize the elements of what I

202
00:10:10,020 --> 00:10:15,300
But again, it's also, I don't India, but with Youtube and Kiran

203
00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:22,820
Well, what I've heard, and I've heard him say this in the past, I'm like 99% positive,

204
00:10:22,820 --> 00:10:28,300
but I know for sure I've read it in a few case studies, hit every single blog post that

205
00:10:28,300 --> 00:10:36,340
he creates, $15,000 is what he dedicates to making sure that these blog posts right here

206
00:10:36,340 --> 00:10:39,260
end up driving him success.

207
00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:43,620
You can see there, they're fairly long blog posts, but why does he do that?

208
00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:47,780
Well, you're talking about somebody who is ranked entrepreneur of the year by President

209
00:10:47,780 --> 00:10:50,980
Obama when President Obama was in office.

210
00:10:50,980 --> 00:10:53,940
This guy has worked with some of the best companies out there.

211
00:10:53,940 --> 00:11:01,020
He's extremely good when it comes to driving traffic and creating SEO and marketing and

212
00:11:01,020 --> 00:11:02,180
getting things out there.

213
00:11:02,180 --> 00:11:04,740
It is absolutely amazing what he's done.

214
00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:10,540
He's a very good example of how quality content is king.

215
00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:12,560
You want to rock the tops of the list.

216
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,260
Don't just produce a bunch of crap.

217
00:11:14,260 --> 00:11:18,600
You've got to actually produce a copy that resonates with your audience and has your

218
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,180
audience saying, wow, I want more of this.

219
00:11:21,180 --> 00:11:25,260
The one moment you waste your audience time is the moment your audience says, I don't

220
00:11:25,260 --> 00:11:27,340
know if I'm going to come back to this.

221
00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:28,340
This isn't helpful for me.

222
00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:30,340
So Jon, we're going to shift gears.

223
00:11:30,340 --> 00:11:34,500
We're going to talk about your vision and copyright and all that in just a minute right

224
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:35,500
after our break.

225
00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:40,300
But first, what are three resources that have helped you as a visionary get to where you

226
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:41,300
are?

227
00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:45,220
You're the top 3% provider of copy on Upwork.com.

228
00:11:45,220 --> 00:11:46,620
That's a fairly competitive field.

229
00:11:46,620 --> 00:11:47,900
There's at least five people on there.

230
00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:52,580
In fact, I think there's more than 50,000 people, maybe more than 500,000 people on

231
00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:53,580
there.

232
00:11:53,580 --> 00:11:58,660
So tell us about what's helped you gain success so far.

233
00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:03,300
One of the biggest books that helped me more than anything else, actually, I can't recommend

234
00:12:03,300 --> 00:12:04,420
it enough.

235
00:12:04,420 --> 00:12:05,780
And I'm not paid by this guy.

236
00:12:05,780 --> 00:12:06,780
I don't know him.

237
00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:07,780
There's no kickbacks.

238
00:12:07,780 --> 00:12:09,380
I just love this book so much.

239
00:12:09,380 --> 00:12:12,620
It's called Rejection Proof by Jia Zhang.

240
00:12:12,620 --> 00:12:15,340
And if you don't read the book, he's got a TED talk, you can go watch the TED talk and

241
00:12:15,340 --> 00:12:16,340
get the flavor of it.

242
00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:17,620
And then you'll want to read the book.

243
00:12:17,620 --> 00:12:25,180
So that book, I read that book, I found that book at a time in my life where I knew that

244
00:12:25,180 --> 00:12:29,780
was the message I needed to hear that I had just done something that was not business

245
00:12:29,780 --> 00:12:34,260
related personal thing, I was trying a big project and it failed flat.

246
00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:39,860
And I was trying to work through that process of what do I do now that I failed in front

247
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:41,820
of you know, God and everybody, what do I do?

248
00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:46,060
So I found this book Rejection Proof and read it and I realized, hey, you know what, first

249
00:12:46,060 --> 00:12:47,620
of all, failing is okay.

250
00:12:47,620 --> 00:12:49,640
In fact, that's how you learn.

251
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:56,980
And second of all, when someone rejects whatever it is you're selling or offering or doing,

252
00:12:56,980 --> 00:12:58,660
that doesn't mean that you are a failure.

253
00:12:58,660 --> 00:13:00,580
It just means it wasn't right for that person.

254
00:13:00,580 --> 00:13:01,580
Yep.

255
00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:07,900
And that insight really just like flipped a switch in my brain to go, okay, I'm not

256
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,540
a failure because that thing didn't work.

257
00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:11,540
Maybe it was bad timing.

258
00:13:11,540 --> 00:13:13,700
Maybe that person just isn't into it at the moment.

259
00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:14,980
That doesn't mean that I did something wrong.

260
00:13:14,980 --> 00:13:16,660
And so that was super helpful for me.

261
00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:20,940
And I just, you know, Rejection Proof by Jia Zhang, anybody could benefit, literally anybody

262
00:13:20,940 --> 00:13:22,500
could benefit from this book.

263
00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:23,500
All of us.

264
00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:24,500
Yes.

265
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,540
Every single person has to deal with rejection on a daily basis.

266
00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:33,180
You know, whether it's in the grocery store and something that happens there, whether

267
00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:37,420
it's your boss telling you, hey, I'm not approving that project or that vacation, there's lots.

268
00:13:37,420 --> 00:13:40,620
But if you're in the sales role, then the customer service role, do you deal with it

269
00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:41,620
all the time?

270
00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:45,580
And it can start to really mess with your psyche if you don't come to understand those

271
00:13:45,580 --> 00:13:46,580
principles.

272
00:13:46,580 --> 00:13:47,580
I'm excited.

273
00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:48,580
I got to watch that Ted Talk.

274
00:13:48,580 --> 00:13:49,580
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

275
00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:51,500
I'll let that inspire me to get the book.

276
00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:57,460
But to double down on your point, again, visionaries, don't take it personal when somebody tells

277
00:13:57,460 --> 00:13:58,460
you no.

278
00:13:58,460 --> 00:14:02,760
That is one of the most important principles to realize is it's usually not about you.

279
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,620
It's about them and where they're at.

280
00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:10,900
So imagine I'm making phone calls and I'm trying to get the right people move forward.

281
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:15,700
And there's this, let's say that I sell products for babies, right?

282
00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:20,940
And this baby, whatever I'm selling is perfect for this mother that I call.

283
00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:22,460
But think about the mom side, right?

284
00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:25,980
If mom woke up that morning on the wrong side of the bed.

285
00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:31,240
If mom had an issue with her husband and they fought before he went to work.

286
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,460
And then mom is trying to get cereal made for everybody and get breakfast made and she's

287
00:14:35,460 --> 00:14:39,940
stressed and I call her and I've got the perfect solution for whatever her situation is, but

288
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:42,180
she's dealing with all of that stress.

289
00:14:42,180 --> 00:14:46,020
And so when I call her and I get on the phone and hey, this is Jackson from babyproducts.com

290
00:14:46,020 --> 00:14:48,100
and she's like, why would you call me right now?

291
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:49,100
You're an awful person.

292
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:50,100
Right.

293
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:51,100
And she clicks and hangs up.

294
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:52,100
Right.

295
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:57,380
And I think that, oh man, she didn't want to have anything to do with us.

296
00:14:57,380 --> 00:15:00,420
You know, oh, my product must be awful.

297
00:15:00,420 --> 00:15:04,860
We have such a strong tendency as visionaries to take things personal and to think that

298
00:15:04,860 --> 00:15:06,380
it's about us.

299
00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:10,860
When in reality, there's just so much stress and overwhelm and challenge that's going on

300
00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:12,480
in that person's life.

301
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,180
And you magnify that into real life.

302
00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:18,600
We've got election struggles, we've got financial struggles, we've got all sorts of things that

303
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:25,140
are bogging us down right now that it usually has nothing to do with your solution at all.

304
00:15:25,140 --> 00:15:29,180
So if you know your vision and you are, you believe in it and you've got that intuition

305
00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:31,260
strong stick to it.

306
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:34,460
No matter who's saying no, don't give up on that.

307
00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:39,700
Know that it just usually has to do with a timing and a circumstance and a context.

308
00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:40,700
So Jon, thank you for that.

309
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:41,700
That's fast.

310
00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:42,700
That was rejection proof.

311
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:43,700
I got to get that one.

312
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:44,700
All right.

313
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:46,020
What's number two, man.

314
00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:51,200
So number two, honestly, so I actually have a master's degree in biblical studies.

315
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,660
So you might guess that the Bible is important to me and you would be correct.

316
00:15:54,660 --> 00:16:00,940
So you know, honestly, for me, for my entire life, you know, like going back to the Bible

317
00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:07,360
and being in it all the time, like, if I'm ever feeling down or doubting myself or feeling

318
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,100
like God's not there, it's usually because I haven't been reading my Bible.

319
00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:16,020
And so I'm not saying this to tell everyone to go become a Christian, read your Bible,

320
00:16:16,020 --> 00:16:17,020
although I think you should.

321
00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:19,500
But if you don't want to, that's like, that's not what I'm saying.

322
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:25,220
But you probably have some kind of faith or religion or belief of some kind.

323
00:16:25,220 --> 00:16:27,380
And are you tapping into that regularly?

324
00:16:27,380 --> 00:16:34,860
Because you know, I, you know, it's, I need money to pay bills, but like life is not about

325
00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:35,860
making money, right?

326
00:16:35,860 --> 00:16:39,460
There's many more important things and I need to stay grounded in what's really important,

327
00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:40,460
right?

328
00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:43,780
So loving God, loving other people, that's how I define it.

329
00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:44,780
I love that.

330
00:16:44,780 --> 00:16:49,580
And yesterday I got to be on the Graceful Warrior podcast and it's a Christian podcast

331
00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:53,700
about leadership and about like what you're doing in your life and the successes you've

332
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:54,700
had.

333
00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:57,060
This, this is my Bible from the past.

334
00:16:57,060 --> 00:17:02,500
Nice, you know, and, and I have certain types of notes on here and I would second what Jon

335
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:08,100
said when I find myself feeling distant or just out of body, out of place, not, not really

336
00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:13,860
in my element, a lot of it has to do with have I forgotten about my spiritual studies?

337
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:19,060
And I'm going to be going back on that podcast and talking about how I mark my modern scriptures,

338
00:17:19,060 --> 00:17:20,060
they're digital.

339
00:17:20,060 --> 00:17:25,340
You know, I don't use this physical book as often, really hardly at all anymore.

340
00:17:25,340 --> 00:17:31,540
I use the digital version of it and it allows me to much more, much faster annotate and

341
00:17:31,540 --> 00:17:34,020
keep comments and notes on what's there.

342
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:39,460
And I think that's one of the challenges people have with that book is a one, they try to

343
00:17:39,460 --> 00:17:44,940
read it chronologically, you know, page by page to if you haven't been taught or had

344
00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:51,620
the opportunity to learn how to hear what's being taught to you, then that can be really

345
00:17:51,620 --> 00:17:52,620
hard.

346
00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:54,300
I'll give, I'll give two simple tips.

347
00:17:54,300 --> 00:18:01,900
One is I highlight anything that's about love in pink and color I chose.

348
00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:06,740
It helps me look and see where love applies to that particular scripture.

349
00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:13,700
And I highlight anything about blessings in orange and I highlight anything about the

350
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:16,500
spirit and how it teaches us in blue.

351
00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:20,940
And that helps me again, be able to not only see the context of the story and what's there,

352
00:18:20,940 --> 00:18:26,700
but also see how this applies to me and three major components of why the scriptures, why

353
00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:30,140
the Bible was designed for our lives.

354
00:18:30,140 --> 00:18:31,140
So I'm really glad you said that.

355
00:18:31,140 --> 00:18:36,780
I think maybe, maybe three out of hundreds of people have been on the show have brought

356
00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:40,940
up a spiritual text as one of their, their top three resources.

357
00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:41,940
What's number three, man?

358
00:18:41,940 --> 00:18:43,620
You're crushing this.

359
00:18:43,620 --> 00:18:48,340
I'm going to say, I'm not going to pick, I'm going to pick a genre of books.

360
00:18:48,340 --> 00:18:49,340
How about that?

361
00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:55,340
So I am addicted to reading business, like business how to books, because when I started

362
00:18:55,340 --> 00:19:00,900
this whole thing in 2021, I was in the corporate world and then I lost my job in COVID and

363
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:03,260
now I had to start this new thing.

364
00:19:03,260 --> 00:19:05,860
I knew, I know nothing about running a business, right?

365
00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:11,540
I thought I would get an upwork and I'll edit things and I'll make money, but that there's

366
00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:12,780
so much more to it.

367
00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:15,940
And so even as a person with a gray and his beard, right?

368
00:19:15,940 --> 00:19:18,380
I continually have to reinvent myself.

369
00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:19,580
I have to learn.

370
00:19:19,580 --> 00:19:23,020
I have to be willing to humble myself and say, okay, what do I need to know?

371
00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:27,620
And how do I, so for me, any kind of book that talks about how to grow your business,

372
00:19:27,620 --> 00:19:33,100
how to do business things, how to market, how to sell, how to run operations.

373
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:38,540
If I even get one nugget of wisdom out of that book, that's a great book because that

374
00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:41,580
makes me a better person and a better entrepreneur.

375
00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:46,740
So like, I just read that book, the 10 X book by Grant Cardone, I think.

376
00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:47,740
Yeah.

377
00:19:47,740 --> 00:19:51,540
And so a lot of stuff in there that was great, a lot of stuff I disagreed with, but there

378
00:19:51,540 --> 00:19:54,900
was a couple of nuggets that I could take and apply.

379
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:58,380
I'm like, you know what, thank God for Grant Cardone.

380
00:19:58,380 --> 00:20:03,100
So for me, just, you know, the ability to have to go out and read about business and

381
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:05,020
from people, experts like you, right?

382
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:10,100
And learn that one thing, two things, three things like that's, that's propelled me so

383
00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:11,100
far.

384
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:14,460
I love that you said thank God for Grant Cardone.

385
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:22,620
I am fairly, let's call me notorious a little bit for using him as the poster child of unethical

386
00:20:22,620 --> 00:20:23,620
marketing.

387
00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:29,140
And, but at the same time, while people may hear that, I don't hate the man.

388
00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:30,700
I love the man.

389
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:35,660
I want him to step up as a leader and make some adjustments to the manipulation tactics

390
00:20:35,660 --> 00:20:39,660
that are utilized, the force and control language that's utilized.

391
00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:43,980
And I feel passionate about that because I used to be that way.

392
00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:49,740
I used to tell people what to do, you know, and push people down a certain direction.

393
00:20:49,740 --> 00:20:54,260
And so I don't think that's appropriate, but it doesn't mean if we were looking at it as

394
00:20:54,260 --> 00:20:55,260
mathematicians, right?

395
00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:57,860
It doesn't mean his formulas are wrong, right?

396
00:20:57,860 --> 00:20:59,780
He's got some phenomenal formulas.

397
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:01,300
He's got a lot of genius to him.

398
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:05,420
So business books and the genre, this is my mouse pad.

399
00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:11,360
I talk about it all the time because it is one of the least read, but most highly recommended

400
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,700
books by ultra successful people.

401
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:20,700
And it is through picking up the books that are harder to read that, well, why is it harder

402
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:22,080
to read?

403
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,620
Because there's a lot of depth of what you can learn that is new to our paradigm.

404
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:30,260
So I definitely recommend that for visionaries out there.

405
00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:37,460
You are business owners, whether you realize it or not, you know, you have leadership opportunities.

406
00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:39,620
You have a brand to build.

407
00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:44,780
If you're building a vision that is meant to attract other people to work with you,

408
00:21:44,780 --> 00:21:49,260
then that is what's called an organization coming together, people coming together to

409
00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:51,180
accomplish certain good.

410
00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:56,220
You are in the life of business and business is a great sector to get training on.

411
00:21:56,220 --> 00:22:03,140
Well, how do we, how do we then build frameworks and infrastructure to help us create security

412
00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:05,700
for those who want to belong to the process?

413
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:06,980
So well, well done.

414
00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:08,860
I'm going to appreciate all three of those.

415
00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:09,860
We're going to come right back.

416
00:22:09,860 --> 00:22:15,220
We're going to dive into Jon Clemence vision of copywriting and why this is so important

417
00:22:15,220 --> 00:22:16,580
and helpful to business owners.

418
00:22:16,580 --> 00:22:18,900
And we'll see you guys on the other side.

419
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:19,900
All right.

420
00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:23,060
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame.

421
00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:24,060
I'm your show host.

422
00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:28,740
We will be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building

423
00:22:28,740 --> 00:22:39,660
fantastic visions out there.

424
00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:40,660
All right.

425
00:22:40,660 --> 00:22:42,380
Welcome into another episode of Vision Pros Live.

426
00:22:42,380 --> 00:22:45,620
I'm your show host, Jackson Calame, founder and CEO of First Class Business.

427
00:22:45,620 --> 00:22:49,660
And if you follow me regularly, you will see that like Jackson's antsy today, right?

428
00:22:49,660 --> 00:22:55,540
I've got a little bit extra vibe going on in me because Jon Clemence is coming on and

429
00:22:55,540 --> 00:23:00,340
we're talking about a subject that I just I am ultra passionate about because it's one

430
00:23:00,340 --> 00:23:03,700
of the most powerful subjects for any visionary out there.

431
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:08,100
We're talking about copywriting and presenting your message and knowing how to do that.

432
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:14,460
And the challenge of copywriting is it's kind of like the water of business.

433
00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:15,460
It is essential.

434
00:23:15,460 --> 00:23:18,740
It is simple to gain access to.

435
00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:22,340
And if you if you drown yourself in it, you can be in real trouble.

436
00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:24,340
You can really kill your business and brand.

437
00:23:24,340 --> 00:23:29,860
So while it's a resource that all of us can relate to and all of us are influenced by

438
00:23:29,860 --> 00:23:35,700
knowing how to get into the copy game, knowing how to use what you're trying to do to influence

439
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:39,700
others so that you actually gain the impact you want is imperative.

440
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:44,800
And Jon has done some things already on this show that have me saying like I've got to

441
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,540
learn a lot from what he's up to.

442
00:23:47,540 --> 00:23:52,460
And we've got to debate some subjects to make sure we deliver the most value possible for

443
00:23:52,460 --> 00:23:54,760
you with where you're at at your business stage.

444
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,780
So take everything we say with a grain of salt visionaries.

445
00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:03,260
One thing Jon says may not be applicable at all to your scenario.

446
00:24:03,260 --> 00:24:09,200
One thing I say may not be applicable at all to your scenario, but it may also be that

447
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,520
golden key that's necessary for a different entrepreneur.

448
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:18,260
So be very careful any time you have the opportunity to learn about copywriting and branding to

449
00:24:18,260 --> 00:24:21,420
know how to siphon through it and know what's for you and what's not.

450
00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:26,060
Before I bring Jon back on stage and we talk about that, a couple of sponsors, one that's

451
00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:32,980
actually very well in tune with this subject, Brain Glue, was written by James Bond.

452
00:24:32,980 --> 00:24:37,540
James Bond, I just can't say that name without smiling.

453
00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:42,300
He wrote a book though that Jack Canfield, the author of over a hundred million copies

454
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:46,340
published to Consume for the Soul said, if you were an entrepreneur, you would have to

455
00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:50,180
be an idiot not to read this book.

456
00:24:50,180 --> 00:24:54,180
You got to read this book if you're in the business of visions of marketing.

457
00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:59,540
He said the book should be in every marketing school in America, every marketing class,

458
00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:01,540
every university.

459
00:25:01,540 --> 00:25:08,500
The concept of Brain Glue helps us move from logical presentations to helping people write

460
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:15,500
emotionally and create a message, a message that emotionally sticks so that you're not

461
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:19,580
out of sight, out of mind with the individuals you're trying to influence.

462
00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:21,060
Listen to the audio clip on that on Amazon.

463
00:25:21,060 --> 00:25:22,740
I highly recommend checking it out.

464
00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:26,380
I laughed out loud when I listened to just that audio sample and I got the book from

465
00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:27,780
James just a couple of days ago.

466
00:25:27,780 --> 00:25:31,020
I'm going to be diving in very deep with that.

467
00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:34,260
Then there's Dave Morrow's Hard2Kill.org.

468
00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:38,740
Hard2Kill.org is helping a hundred thousand veterans lose two million pounds collectively.

469
00:25:38,740 --> 00:25:44,720
If you know any veterans who are interested in maintaining their health, want to be part

470
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,560
of a community that's doing good things, Dave's helping people look good, feel good, and then

471
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:50,780
go and do good.

472
00:25:50,780 --> 00:25:54,860
He's got this community that he's now opened up to civilians as well.

473
00:25:54,860 --> 00:25:55,860
I've been in it.

474
00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:58,340
I haven't worked out in almost eight years.

475
00:25:58,340 --> 00:25:59,740
I tried here and there.

476
00:25:59,740 --> 00:26:04,260
I did some things, but I pretty much let myself go to an extent.

477
00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:08,540
He's the first personal trainer and health coach that somehow is meowing me into actually

478
00:26:08,540 --> 00:26:09,540
getting things done.

479
00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:14,760
I'm up to 125 pushups daily now in a matter of eight weeks.

480
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,220
It's fun to see the transformations that are taking place.

481
00:26:17,220 --> 00:26:24,180
Most importantly, even after my back surgery, my back feels better than it has since the

482
00:26:24,180 --> 00:26:26,020
rehab after the surgery.

483
00:26:26,020 --> 00:26:29,820
I don't take that for granted because, man, I was in a lot of pain these last few years.

484
00:26:29,820 --> 00:26:30,820
I just hit it well.

485
00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:33,220
Thank you, Dave, for helping me with that.

486
00:26:33,220 --> 00:26:35,260
Go check out his podcast, the Hard2Kill Podcast.

487
00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:36,260
He's an award winner.

488
00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:37,940
He's been at this for a long time.

489
00:26:37,940 --> 00:26:38,940
There's the Water Project.

490
00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:42,340
We are not part of the Water Project, but we do support it.

491
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:44,780
We love everything about it.

492
00:26:44,780 --> 00:26:48,840
When I learned about it and I contributed to it, I got really inspired because when you

493
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,500
pick a community that you contribute to, they actually send you the plan and the update.

494
00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:56,580
You get to see the community as they come together and what they build, whether it's

495
00:26:56,580 --> 00:26:58,860
a sand dam or a borehole well.

496
00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:01,900
I love the transparency of this initiative.

497
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:08,540
The more I thought about it and the more I realized, wow, there's people on this earth,

498
00:27:08,540 --> 00:27:12,720
millions of them, who don't have access to even clean drinking water.

499
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,220
How lucky am I?

500
00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:17,980
How blessed am I?

501
00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:21,780
I started to think more and more about this process, realized I want to talk about this

502
00:27:21,780 --> 00:27:26,220
all the time and see if I can inspire others to help out in the process.

503
00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:32,620
This picture right here, as I study more and more, it reminds me of my children on Christmas

504
00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:34,900
Day.

505
00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:39,220
My kids probably don't even celebrate Christmas this enthusiastically anymore.

506
00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:43,820
These are kids who are celebrating the very essence of water itself.

507
00:27:43,820 --> 00:27:47,420
We have the ability to make that type of an impact.

508
00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:51,860
If you don't have the financial capacity to give to one of these projects, my request

509
00:27:51,860 --> 00:27:57,020
is just share this with somebody who might have the ability to just try to inspire others

510
00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:58,020
to help out.

511
00:27:58,020 --> 00:28:02,660
We have 8 billion people on this earth and there's a lot of ways that we can do just

512
00:28:02,660 --> 00:28:04,940
that even just by sharing a message.

513
00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:09,580
I think without further ado, Jon Clemence is a testament of that.

514
00:28:09,580 --> 00:28:14,540
I'll bring him on and we'll talk a little bit about does messaging work?

515
00:28:14,540 --> 00:28:17,460
Does messaging actually drive people to take action?

516
00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:19,660
Jon, welcome to Vision Pros Live.

517
00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:21,540
Hey, thanks for having me, Jackson.

518
00:28:21,540 --> 00:28:22,980
Excited to be here.

519
00:28:22,980 --> 00:28:23,980
Absolutely.

520
00:28:23,980 --> 00:28:29,340
Jon, I was just talking about how a simple share might make all the difference for another

521
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:33,800
country or at least one community or one person.

522
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,820
Talk to us about that because that has a lot to do with what you do in terms of repurposing

523
00:28:37,820 --> 00:28:38,820
content.

524
00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:40,940
Am I right or wrong?

525
00:28:40,940 --> 00:28:44,780
Yeah, I mean, like one share could be the difference between a sale and not a sale,

526
00:28:44,780 --> 00:28:46,740
honestly, like in a business context, right?

527
00:28:46,740 --> 00:28:50,380
And so that's actually one of the things I've had to learn just as a human being.

528
00:28:50,380 --> 00:28:55,900
So I, so there's a mentor a long time ago told me that there's two kinds of people in

529
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:56,900
this world.

530
00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:00,060
There's there you are people and there's here I am people.

531
00:29:00,060 --> 00:29:04,300
And I try to be a there you are person because I want the other person to be drawn in and

532
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:05,940
to feel edified.

533
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:10,900
But as a business owner who's trying to sell things, right, I have to be here I am person

534
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:11,940
sometimes.

535
00:29:11,940 --> 00:29:16,420
And so I've had to learn to give myself permission to do that to realize I'm not being selfish,

536
00:29:16,420 --> 00:29:19,100
but I'm doing the things I need to do to grow my brand.

537
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:23,220
So I absolutely believe that, you know, I post all the time on social.

538
00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:28,780
I'm always trying to write the next blog, the next email newsletter, the next email

539
00:29:28,780 --> 00:29:30,500
to a client or an old client.

540
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:34,180
Hey, you got anything for me to, you know, trying to get my name out there and remembering

541
00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:37,980
that it's not there's not be being selfish.

542
00:29:37,980 --> 00:29:40,780
I'm trying to serve this greater good.

543
00:29:40,780 --> 00:29:43,020
And so that's that's that's a key for me.

544
00:29:43,020 --> 00:29:49,880
I love that it goes along with the quote to instead of being interesting, right to be

545
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,740
interested in others.

546
00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:57,220
And it's important to be able to balance both just like it's important to love yourself,

547
00:29:57,220 --> 00:29:58,220
right?

548
00:29:58,220 --> 00:30:01,540
As much as you love others, it's hard to learn how to love others appropriately if you don't

549
00:30:01,540 --> 00:30:04,460
even love yourself appropriately.

550
00:30:04,460 --> 00:30:07,540
And so that's an important aspect to step into.

551
00:30:07,540 --> 00:30:12,780
So Jon, what's what's the vision for the people that you serve?

552
00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:16,500
So I'm extremely big on quality and excellence.

553
00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:20,400
Like those are my if I just pick my values, like those would be up near the top.

554
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,740
And so when I look at someone's website or like get an email or even look at a social

555
00:30:24,740 --> 00:30:31,520
post and it's not as good as it could be like that just kind of like breaks my heart.

556
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:38,300
You put all this work into it and it's just not going to do the thing you want it to do.

557
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:43,740
So for me, it's like how I want to come alongside people who also value quality and excellence.

558
00:30:43,740 --> 00:30:47,780
And I want to say, look, I mean, the title of this show is about like, you know, getting

559
00:30:47,780 --> 00:30:53,460
off the content treadmill, like let's let's find ways to help you succeed that don't involve

560
00:30:53,460 --> 00:30:55,780
you working harder.

561
00:30:55,780 --> 00:31:00,060
So now we're back to the teamwork discussion that we had a little bit before the break.

562
00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:04,220
And how can we together as a team help you succeed?

563
00:31:04,220 --> 00:31:07,180
Like that's to me is like, that's why I get up in the morning.

564
00:31:07,180 --> 00:31:11,820
I get up in the morning and I say, okay, I'm here, I'm alive.

565
00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:13,760
What can I do to make this world a better place?

566
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,020
And for me, because I have skills in the English language, because I'm basically a professional

567
00:31:18,020 --> 00:31:20,580
nerd, like that's where I'm going to lean into.

568
00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:25,380
So if I can help people by being a nerd, then I want to be the best nerd I can possibly

569
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:26,380
be.

570
00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:32,980
And my vision is just, how can I help you succeed without doing more and without, you

571
00:31:32,980 --> 00:31:38,500
know, just, just being on that, that death by blog posts kind of mentality, but to take

572
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:42,380
what you already have or what you know, you is in your head and get it out there in a

573
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:43,380
way that resonates.

574
00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:45,260
Like, that's really what I'm trying to do.

575
00:31:45,260 --> 00:31:46,260
Okay.

576
00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:49,900
And I, I, I re there's so many principles I want to circle back to, but I also want

577
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:56,700
to make sure that we put that in the context of, well, who do you feel are the business

578
00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:03,740
owners, or the, the people who have content that are qualified and ready for this type

579
00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:04,740
of help?

580
00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:10,840
Because sometimes, you know, there's, there's that quote, the moment I start selling hammers,

581
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,340
everything begins to look like a nail.

582
00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:13,340
Right.

583
00:32:13,340 --> 00:32:15,940
So it's easy to think, well, every business owner needs this.

584
00:32:15,940 --> 00:32:20,300
And to some extent, yes, every business owner needs the ability to have more influence,

585
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:27,900
but at what point in stage are they ready to dive in to what it is that you do to help

586
00:32:27,900 --> 00:32:28,900
them?

587
00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:29,900
Yeah.

588
00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:32,100
So there's a couple, a couple of things they probably need to have.

589
00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:36,700
First of all, like to your point, it's going to help out a ton.

590
00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:41,460
If you can know who your customer is, because otherwise, how, what are we going to write

591
00:32:41,460 --> 00:32:42,460
to?

592
00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:43,460
We have no idea.

593
00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:44,980
We're just going to throw some stuff out and see what happens.

594
00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:48,540
So if you can, if you already know, if you've got that customer avatar nailed down, that's

595
00:32:48,540 --> 00:32:50,020
going to help a ton.

596
00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:54,420
If you already have an idea for your voice and your tone, like, are you trying to, are

597
00:32:54,420 --> 00:32:55,420
you trying to educate?

598
00:32:55,420 --> 00:32:56,420
Are you trying to inform?

599
00:32:56,420 --> 00:32:57,620
Are you trying to use humor?

600
00:32:57,620 --> 00:32:59,660
Like what is your voice?

601
00:32:59,660 --> 00:33:02,460
If you can nail that down, that will help.

602
00:33:02,460 --> 00:33:03,860
And we can, you know, nail that down together.

603
00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:07,020
That's a conversation we can have, but like those two things are critical because that

604
00:33:07,020 --> 00:33:10,420
determines how we're going to write your content.

605
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:13,740
And then the third one, and this is just the truth and you know, it kind of sucks, but

606
00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:17,100
like, you have to have a budget for it.

607
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:20,540
I wish that could just do what I do for free, but you know, I had to pay bills.

608
00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:25,460
So there is a component of, you know, you have to have some kind of success to be able

609
00:33:25,460 --> 00:33:26,460
to have those.

610
00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:27,460
What's the budget?

611
00:33:27,460 --> 00:33:28,460
Divert.

612
00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:32,020
You know, like if you just want to.

613
00:33:32,020 --> 00:33:34,460
Here's what's happened.

614
00:33:34,460 --> 00:33:35,980
And Jon, I like you.

615
00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:39,940
You like, you have a lot of leadership qualities and I would, I wouldn't say that if I didn't,

616
00:33:39,940 --> 00:33:42,220
by the way, I think some people can get an idea.

617
00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:45,700
A certain guest that I've had where, no, I don't really like them as a guest.

618
00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:46,700
I love them.

619
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:52,420
Um, but in their expertise, no, but the challenge is we live in a market where all three of

620
00:33:52,420 --> 00:33:55,100
those generalities are taken advantage of.

621
00:33:55,100 --> 00:34:00,340
And most people don't even recognize it, including the marketers who are doing it.

622
00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:06,780
So most of you as visionaries, you do actually know your customer avatar, but you end up

623
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:11,020
getting into a consultation with somebody who did what Jon just did.

624
00:34:11,020 --> 00:34:15,740
And they start asking you questions about psychographics and demographics.

625
00:34:15,740 --> 00:34:19,380
And you start to get a little bit bottled up and worried like, oh my gosh, I don't know

626
00:34:19,380 --> 00:34:22,140
if I really know this or maybe I don't know my customer.

627
00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:28,220
And then you end up latching on to that marketer or that individual and hoping that they're

628
00:34:28,220 --> 00:34:29,860
going to save you.

629
00:34:29,860 --> 00:34:34,940
But in reality, all they've done is created confusion and your own heart and mind, even

630
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:40,900
though you started on a, on a situation where you actually did know it, but they, they leveraged

631
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:46,340
those realities to get you to second guess yourself, because that's also one of the fastest

632
00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:51,380
ways to get people to buy from you is when you get some, if they feel confused, but they

633
00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:57,620
see that you're more certain about what, how you read them than they are, they will latch

634
00:34:57,620 --> 00:34:58,620
onto you.

635
00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:03,900
It is an, it can be an extremely toxic reality as much as it can be an extremely good reality.

636
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:06,540
So I'm not calling Jon, so I'm not saying Jon's bad for this.

637
00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:12,100
I'm saying entrepreneurs be careful because if you, if you do that, if you, if you start

638
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:17,380
to second guess yourself, you're probably going to end up in a situation where you,

639
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:22,140
where you end up hiring somebody just because you want to feel safe again, versus it actually

640
00:35:22,140 --> 00:35:23,820
being a situation that's going to help you.

641
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:26,300
So that's why we got to move beyond that a little bit.

642
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:30,460
So budgets, one of those realities, it's like, well, let's define that if budget has to be

643
00:35:30,460 --> 00:35:34,500
determined, then you also Jon have to be able to say, well, what does the budget look

644
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:35,500
like?

645
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:38,820
Yeah, so I mean, like right now, so I'll put it this way.

646
00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:41,460
If you, let me approach this.

647
00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:46,420
If you have, hopefully as a business owner, you have an effective hourly rate that you're

648
00:35:46,420 --> 00:35:47,420
charging yourself, right?

649
00:35:47,420 --> 00:35:50,300
Like I know how much my time is worth.

650
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:52,460
And so I'm just going to throw it a number out there.

651
00:35:52,460 --> 00:35:58,660
If your effective hourly rate that you charge for your own time is $50 an hour or more,

652
00:35:58,660 --> 00:36:02,140
then you need to hire me because it's going to save you money in the long run.

653
00:36:02,140 --> 00:36:08,380
You're going to be able to get that time back to do more sales calls, more network building,

654
00:36:08,380 --> 00:36:12,580
more product development, and then leave the editing and writing stuff to me.

655
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:15,980
So that's kind of the break I would say, you know, it's without getting like, Oh, it costs

656
00:36:15,980 --> 00:36:17,740
this much for this much or this much for this much.

657
00:36:17,740 --> 00:36:18,740
Right?

658
00:36:18,740 --> 00:36:20,780
That's a neat way to put it.

659
00:36:20,780 --> 00:36:27,260
Because again, if you don't know your effectively hourly rate, don't do this.

660
00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:31,580
You know, like you need to have that type of security as a business owner in order to

661
00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:32,580
move forward.

662
00:36:32,580 --> 00:36:35,900
And I'm sure Jon, you have the ability to consult.

663
00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:40,060
I'm sure you have the ability to do different types of services for people too.

664
00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:45,140
So all of that should be considered, but knowing your budget, as Jon put it, is important.

665
00:36:45,140 --> 00:36:49,500
Knowing your customer and the voice and the tone.

666
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:53,640
Do you know what I'm talking about, Jon, when it comes to how these, these marketers

667
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,100
out there are asking these, like asking these types of questions and then getting businesses

668
00:36:58,100 --> 00:36:59,300
to second guess themselves?

669
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:01,500
What are your thoughts on that?

670
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:07,220
You know, so I try to be the same person all the time as best I can.

671
00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:11,540
So like my goal, I'm talking about the ones they're facing.

672
00:37:11,540 --> 00:37:15,600
Like it's again, the business owners aren't facing you every time they're facing all sorts

673
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,940
of different types of personalities.

674
00:37:17,940 --> 00:37:19,740
So have you seen that much in the market?

675
00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:26,180
Have you paid attention to what they have to go through with the other people they hire?

676
00:37:26,180 --> 00:37:29,940
Only to the extent where I get, you know, marketing emails and message on LinkedIn,

677
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:32,340
like everyone else.

678
00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:35,000
You know, 90% of those just, okay, that's fine.

679
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,900
So I mean, I, you know, because I'm not in the business for, for my own work.

680
00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:41,900
No, I don't know.

681
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:48,140
Yeah, I don't go out and contact other marketers, but I do just to your point, like, if I ask

682
00:37:48,140 --> 00:37:52,340
you who your customer is, I'm not, I don't know what all the, like, I just want to know,

683
00:37:52,340 --> 00:37:55,820
like, yeah, they're 40 year old guys and like, then they like to wear flannel and drink beer.

684
00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:56,820
Perfect.

685
00:37:56,820 --> 00:37:57,820
Like that's enough for me.

686
00:37:57,820 --> 00:38:01,780
That's your point I don't like, I don't need to know the percentages.

687
00:38:01,780 --> 00:38:03,540
Just what's he look like?

688
00:38:03,540 --> 00:38:04,540
What's she look like?

689
00:38:04,540 --> 00:38:05,540
Like that's good enough.

690
00:38:05,540 --> 00:38:06,540
Right?

691
00:38:06,540 --> 00:38:07,540
So I totally agree with you.

692
00:38:07,540 --> 00:38:08,540
Yeah.

693
00:38:08,540 --> 00:38:12,280
Well, it's really helpful because at video power marketing, we did ask all of the psychographic

694
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,580
and demographic information, but at video power marketing, our budgets were $10,000

695
00:38:16,580 --> 00:38:18,880
a month on YouTube ads.

696
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:24,460
And so we were looking at virality and scale at a level that most people can't really comprehend,

697
00:38:24,460 --> 00:38:27,100
you know, and have never experienced before.

698
00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:32,420
So there's stages to this and there are good doctors in the world and there are bad doctors

699
00:38:32,420 --> 00:38:33,420
in the world.

700
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:37,320
There are good providers in the world that meanwhile there's others who don't necessarily

701
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:38,320
have your interests at heart.

702
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,420
They just want to paycheck.

703
00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:44,160
So that's reassuring to me that that's the type of process you go through.

704
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,700
So know your customer, know the voice and tone, you know, and again, my addition in

705
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:53,900
there don't work with somebody who makes you second guess yourself.

706
00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:58,380
You know, that's not a healthy relationship to be in, especially from a business standpoint

707
00:38:58,380 --> 00:39:05,300
where your success, your vision is the build out of your vision.

708
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:09,700
It's all based on your security and your confidence in what you're doing.

709
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:11,860
So thank you for diving so deep on that.

710
00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:16,700
Anything else you want to add about your vision for those that you're serving and what you

711
00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:17,700
hope to see them accomplish?

712
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:20,020
Yeah, I'll just throw in a quick story.

713
00:39:20,020 --> 00:39:23,100
I actually asked some of my current clients for some feedback a while back.

714
00:39:23,100 --> 00:39:24,100
It's like, Hey, how am I doing?

715
00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:25,100
What can I do better?

716
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:26,380
What do you like about it?

717
00:39:26,380 --> 00:39:32,620
And the one that stuck with me is one person replied to me and said, when I send you something,

718
00:39:32,620 --> 00:39:34,380
I don't have to worry about it.

719
00:39:34,380 --> 00:39:35,620
I know it's going to get done.

720
00:39:35,620 --> 00:39:37,880
And I was like, that's it.

721
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:38,940
That's it.

722
00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:44,780
So if I can do that for you, if I can take worry off of your plate, then I've won.

723
00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:47,080
Everything else is that I've won.

724
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,180
So I was super happy to hear that.

725
00:39:49,180 --> 00:39:50,180
That's awesome.

726
00:39:50,180 --> 00:39:52,220
That is a that is an important testament.

727
00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:55,300
And so a lot of a lot of visionaries live in fear.

728
00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:58,460
There's a lot of unknowns when you're trying to bring some of the fruition.

729
00:39:58,460 --> 00:40:00,500
So to have team members like that is super valuable.

730
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:03,180
Jon, what do you see for yourself on the horizon?

731
00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:06,140
What's your what's your vision for you?

732
00:40:06,140 --> 00:40:10,860
You know, I just try to keep growing every day as a person.

733
00:40:10,860 --> 00:40:14,020
I mean, as a business, I just want to keep like.

734
00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:17,220
Well, let's be honest.

735
00:40:17,220 --> 00:40:22,500
I want to get to the point where money is not an object because that's going to allow

736
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:30,100
me to do more things to make my neighborhood, my a better place, my society a better place.

737
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:34,380
Like I want to get to that point where someone says, hey, we're doing a mission trip to such

738
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:35,380
and such.

739
00:40:35,380 --> 00:40:36,380
Sweet.

740
00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:38,120
Sign me up.

741
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:43,940
Or I find out, hey, by you know, my friend needs five thousand dollars to cover medical

742
00:40:43,940 --> 00:40:44,940
bills.

743
00:40:44,940 --> 00:40:45,940
No problem.

744
00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:46,940
Give me the hospital's phone number.

745
00:40:46,940 --> 00:40:47,940
Right.

746
00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:53,460
Like I want to be I have had so many people in my life be generous to me and poor to me.

747
00:40:53,460 --> 00:40:56,060
That's about time that I started doing this right the same.

748
00:40:56,060 --> 00:40:59,660
So that's really what I want to get to with my my personal life.

749
00:40:59,660 --> 00:41:02,100
My business life is all tied together.

750
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:04,860
I want to get to the point where I can be that philanthropist.

751
00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:05,860
Right.

752
00:41:05,860 --> 00:41:08,220
That's what I want to get to.

753
00:41:08,220 --> 00:41:09,220
That's high level.

754
00:41:09,220 --> 00:41:10,220
That's big.

755
00:41:10,220 --> 00:41:11,220
I like that.

756
00:41:11,220 --> 00:41:13,100
That's what we stand for on this show.

757
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:15,380
Something caught my eye just now.

758
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:16,380
Proofreading University.

759
00:41:16,380 --> 00:41:17,380
Yeah, that is mine.

760
00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:18,380
Yeah.

761
00:41:18,380 --> 00:41:19,380
OK.

762
00:41:19,380 --> 00:41:20,380
So that's a piece.

763
00:41:20,380 --> 00:41:21,380
Yeah.

764
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:22,380
University.

765
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:23,380
Yeah.

766
00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:24,380
That's a piece of the puzzle.

767
00:41:24,380 --> 00:41:28,220
So so this is just something that I felt was important to do.

768
00:41:28,220 --> 00:41:32,980
A lot of people are sitting at home and maybe like me, they're grammar nerds and they want

769
00:41:32,980 --> 00:41:36,900
to get started doing what I do because you can, you know, whether you maybe I just want

770
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:42,660
to make a couple hundred bucks as a side gig like or maybe you want to be full time.

771
00:41:42,660 --> 00:41:44,620
So I said, you know what I can do to give back?

772
00:41:44,620 --> 00:41:45,740
I can start a website.

773
00:41:45,740 --> 00:41:47,140
I can do a brain dump.

774
00:41:47,140 --> 00:41:51,140
I can just tell you everything I know about what I do and how to do it for yourself.

775
00:41:51,140 --> 00:41:52,940
And that way you don't have to buy an expensive course.

776
00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:57,020
You don't have to, you know, buy the whatever book is right here.

777
00:41:57,020 --> 00:42:00,740
And so it's just a way that I have to like try to give back to the community.

778
00:42:00,740 --> 00:42:05,580
And it was again, part of that overarching idea of just how can I be generous?

779
00:42:05,580 --> 00:42:06,740
So many people have been generous to me.

780
00:42:06,740 --> 00:42:08,140
How can I be generous?

781
00:42:08,140 --> 00:42:09,940
And that's that's one of the practical aspects.

782
00:42:09,940 --> 00:42:11,260
I love it.

783
00:42:11,260 --> 00:42:13,500
And this is as we saw digital marketer.

784
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:15,140
We saw Neil Patel.

785
00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:17,820
This is world class formatting.

786
00:42:17,820 --> 00:42:24,660
I remember when Josh Fector of Badass Marketers and Founders, I was in that little group and

787
00:42:24,660 --> 00:42:26,500
I shouldn't say little was a big group.

788
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:32,620
In fact, Mark Zuckerberg invited Josh to go out to Facebook headquarters with 19 other

789
00:42:32,620 --> 00:42:36,540
group leaders to design the future of groups in Facebook.

790
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:42,860
And that happened right before Facebook ended up shifting their personal mission from personalized

791
00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:45,740
profiles to a sense of community.

792
00:42:45,740 --> 00:42:51,220
And Josh taught that content like this that flows kind of like an EKG machine, you know,

793
00:42:51,220 --> 00:42:53,980
is so much easier to read and catch up on.

794
00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:57,140
And you got these awesome links on here.

795
00:42:57,140 --> 00:43:01,060
You've got quotes pulled in with a different frame as well.

796
00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:05,060
The content then gets switched up into bullet points.

797
00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:09,100
One of these have a link to a deeper level of content.

798
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:11,340
This is this is outstanding.

799
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:15,980
So if you're doing this type of work for other businesses, those are the things that a lot

800
00:43:15,980 --> 00:43:17,980
of visionaries just don't know how to look for.

801
00:43:17,980 --> 00:43:18,980
They've never done this before.

802
00:43:18,980 --> 00:43:23,780
They don't they don't necessarily know what they don't know about if you do power to you.

803
00:43:23,780 --> 00:43:24,780
Keep going.

804
00:43:24,780 --> 00:43:30,740
Jon, what's the what's the worst leadership experience that you've ever had?

805
00:43:30,740 --> 00:43:33,740
It's hard to narrow down to just one.

806
00:43:33,740 --> 00:43:38,340
As I alluded, I spent 15 years in the corporate world.

807
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:41,700
And if you're in the corporate world and love your job, then more power to you.

808
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:43,180
I learned it wasn't for me.

809
00:43:43,180 --> 00:43:44,700
So that that's where I'm coming from.

810
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:45,700
It wasn't for me.

811
00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:46,700
I never survived it.

812
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:47,700
I couldn't.

813
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:48,700
My mouth to do.

814
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:51,420
So I my mouth is probably too big.

815
00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:57,140
Now, I used to work for a very large aerospace company based here where I live near Seattle.

816
00:43:57,140 --> 00:44:00,860
I won't say which one.

817
00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:08,300
And I got I slowly worked my way in job positions from further away from production to close

818
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:10,020
or to production.

819
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:15,500
And the closer I got to production, the more I learned how the sausage was actually made

820
00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:18,020
and the more disillusioned I became.

821
00:44:18,020 --> 00:44:21,780
OK, so there is a documentary on Netflix called Downfall.

822
00:44:21,780 --> 00:44:27,420
If you want to learn more, it is the most accurate documentary I've ever seen.

823
00:44:27,420 --> 00:44:31,060
And I you know, I and many other people lived through it.

824
00:44:31,060 --> 00:44:39,140
So that's where I learned that focusing on profit above all else is a terrible, terrible

825
00:44:39,140 --> 00:44:43,060
leadership strategy because it results in safety issues.

826
00:44:43,060 --> 00:44:45,340
It results in low employee morale.

827
00:44:45,340 --> 00:44:52,100
And as we know now, it results in major fines to the government and just like big issues.

828
00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:54,380
So it's a very short sighted way to lead.

829
00:44:54,380 --> 00:44:59,580
So I never want to put profits over people if I can, you know, if I can help it.

830
00:44:59,580 --> 00:45:03,620
So that was probably the absolute worst leadership experience I ever saw.

831
00:45:03,620 --> 00:45:10,180
I got to ask a book I haven't read, but I've been recommended to a lot profit first.

832
00:45:10,180 --> 00:45:11,820
Have you read it?

833
00:45:11,820 --> 00:45:14,340
Yes, I have read it.

834
00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:18,700
And so that's actually does a line that's a good set or does it go?

835
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:20,180
It's actually completely different.

836
00:45:20,180 --> 00:45:21,860
The only similarities in the title.

837
00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:23,420
I actually use it in my business.

838
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:28,140
And it's just a way to ensure that you as a business person pay yourself first and pay

839
00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:30,900
your taxes first, honestly.

840
00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:34,700
So it has nothing to do with how you treat your employees or how you pay.

841
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:39,100
It's really just about setting your finances up in the correct way.

842
00:45:39,100 --> 00:45:40,580
So I'm glad you brought that up.

843
00:45:40,580 --> 00:45:42,500
I definitely recommend profit first.

844
00:45:42,500 --> 00:45:45,580
It is not at all like this other company I used to work for.

845
00:45:45,580 --> 00:45:48,380
Well, that's the nuance of context, right?

846
00:45:48,380 --> 00:45:54,900
And that's where as entrepreneurs, as we learn to think through and assess and ask the difficult

847
00:45:54,900 --> 00:45:57,220
questions like it could have been easy for me.

848
00:45:57,220 --> 00:46:01,900
It would have been easier for me to just take his word for it and then assume, oh, well,

849
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:04,740
that means he must not like profit first.

850
00:46:04,740 --> 00:46:10,340
That's us staying in our safety spot versus being able to be executive in nature and ask,

851
00:46:10,340 --> 00:46:12,780
well, wait a second, what do you think about this book?

852
00:46:12,780 --> 00:46:19,660
If we stay eager and hungry and willing to ask questions in safe places with safe people,

853
00:46:19,660 --> 00:46:24,580
we can gain context that creates harmony across subjects that seem like they don't correlate,

854
00:46:24,580 --> 00:46:26,540
but actually harmonize really well.

855
00:46:26,540 --> 00:46:27,540
So thank you for that.

856
00:46:27,540 --> 00:46:32,380
I'll have to check the documentary out here in the next couple of weeks.

857
00:46:32,380 --> 00:46:35,140
What's the best leadership experience that you've ever had?

858
00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:36,140
Yeah.

859
00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:40,900
So I actually used to work at a subsidiary of this company that I worked for that I just

860
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:41,900
mentioned.

861
00:46:41,900 --> 00:46:44,340
And so I had a boss there or a manager.

862
00:46:44,340 --> 00:46:49,560
I don't like the word boss, a manager named Jackie, and she is the best manager that I've

863
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:56,220
ever known, ever met, ever had the opportunity to work with because she just had this way

864
00:46:56,220 --> 00:47:01,740
of bringing out the best in you and treating you like a valuable human being and member

865
00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:03,460
of the team.

866
00:47:03,460 --> 00:47:07,980
And she also taught me how to flex my personal style.

867
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:08,980
So I'm pretty introverted.

868
00:47:08,980 --> 00:47:11,500
I'm pretty task oriented.

869
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:15,620
So to be able to, she taught me how to be able to like talk with an extrovert and how

870
00:47:15,620 --> 00:47:20,580
to be able to like match their energy and match what's important to them.

871
00:47:20,580 --> 00:47:24,060
And so like that skill alone has just been worth so much to me in my life.

872
00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:28,900
So yeah, Jackie just like, whenever I think about like, what would a good boss do or excuse

873
00:47:28,900 --> 00:47:31,680
me, what a good manager do, like I think about Jackie.

874
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,700
And so I'll make sure to send this to her so she can have that praise.

875
00:47:34,700 --> 00:47:36,860
I was going to say huge shout out to Jackie then.

876
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:37,860
That's amazing.

877
00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:40,820
We all need more Jackies in our life.

878
00:47:40,820 --> 00:47:41,820
So that's awesome.

879
00:47:41,820 --> 00:47:44,180
Thanks for sharing that.

880
00:47:44,180 --> 00:47:47,900
If this was, if this is the very last chance, Jon, that you had to share a message with

881
00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:52,780
the world, what powerful lesson can other visionaries learn from your experience?

882
00:47:52,780 --> 00:48:00,820
The most important thing that I think I can tell someone about my experience is lean into

883
00:48:00,820 --> 00:48:02,220
the fear.

884
00:48:02,220 --> 00:48:05,740
So fear is going to stop you more than anything else.

885
00:48:05,740 --> 00:48:09,060
But if you can get to the place in your brain where you understand that that whatever that

886
00:48:09,060 --> 00:48:12,500
thing you're afraid of doing is probably pretty good indication that that's the thing you

887
00:48:12,500 --> 00:48:14,260
need to do to grow.

888
00:48:14,260 --> 00:48:19,080
And if you can lean into that, then you're that's, that's going to help you be successful

889
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,100
probably more than anything else.

890
00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:26,380
So like, if I like, that's what I would, you know, whether it's my kids or my friends or

891
00:48:26,380 --> 00:48:29,260
not from my family, anybody, that's what I would recommend.

892
00:48:29,260 --> 00:48:30,880
Lean into the fear.

893
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,820
And once you do, you find it's not as bad as you think it is.

894
00:48:33,820 --> 00:48:34,820
That's right.

895
00:48:34,820 --> 00:48:35,820
That's huge.

896
00:48:35,820 --> 00:48:42,140
Um, you know, there's again, for those who aren't biblical, um, faith and fear cannot

897
00:48:42,140 --> 00:48:43,140
coexist.

898
00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:45,960
Um, and faith is action, our beliefs.

899
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,340
And that's exactly what Jon's talking about is leaning into the fear, um, realizing that

900
00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:52,300
the fear can't conquer you.

901
00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:57,940
Um, and, and diving into it now, of course there are logical thresholds.

902
00:48:57,940 --> 00:49:00,620
Um, he did not say lean into the Grand Canyon.

903
00:49:00,620 --> 00:49:05,540
Um, you know, and there, there are certain things that you know when it's appropriate

904
00:49:05,540 --> 00:49:12,680
to have and when it, when it's not, but in most cases, we, we tend to hide from or back

905
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,340
away from opportunities because of discomfort.

906
00:49:15,340 --> 00:49:20,500
Um, so leaning into it is something that is an absolute requirement for all visionaries

907
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:21,500
out there.

908
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:24,620
You're talking about bringing some of the de-fier-ition that other people can't see.

909
00:49:24,620 --> 00:49:28,180
Um, you know, and other people will have a hard time believing in.

910
00:49:28,180 --> 00:49:33,620
So you, you've got to have the resilience to be able to step forward and make it happen.

911
00:49:33,620 --> 00:49:35,620
So thank you for sharing that.

912
00:49:35,620 --> 00:49:38,540
Um, all right, we are very low on time today.

913
00:49:38,540 --> 00:49:41,420
Um, so we're not going to be able to dive into too much else.

914
00:49:41,420 --> 00:49:48,940
Um, but, uh, again, the scary truth of marketing is it's just not as easy as, as you think.

915
00:49:48,940 --> 00:49:52,900
Um, and all the things that, that you're like, well, this is going to be the solution.

916
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:58,500
This is, I hope that you get off of that path sooner than later visionaries.

917
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:03,820
Um, cause most people go through that for many years before they finally realize, okay,

918
00:50:03,820 --> 00:50:06,300
maybe I should listen to Jon and dive into the business books.

919
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:10,460
Um, you know, maybe I should look at more of these podcasts and see what, what are the

920
00:50:10,460 --> 00:50:15,020
stories of these, but maybe I should watch more movies about people of inspiration and

921
00:50:15,020 --> 00:50:19,260
see just how hard their paths were.

922
00:50:19,260 --> 00:50:23,220
But I would also double down on lean into fear.

923
00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:26,420
Um, being a dad is not easy.

924
00:50:26,420 --> 00:50:27,740
It is so worth it though.

925
00:50:27,740 --> 00:50:28,740
Um, right.

926
00:50:28,740 --> 00:50:32,420
All the things that are hard in life, um, you know, I should sell these are hard.

927
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:35,740
All things that are worth it in life are typically hard to do.

928
00:50:35,740 --> 00:50:41,180
So how do you escape the copywriting trap and the other traps that are out there?

929
00:50:41,180 --> 00:50:47,620
Learn to do what is hard and what is virtuous with people that you can gravitate towards

930
00:50:47,620 --> 00:50:48,620
loving.

931
00:50:48,620 --> 00:50:52,000
And if you've loved what you've heard from Jon Clements and don't hesitate to reach

932
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,740
out to him below this episode, you'll see there's action steps that you can take to

933
00:50:55,740 --> 00:50:57,300
get involved with him and his brand.

934
00:50:57,300 --> 00:50:59,100
I'll add the links on there.

935
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:02,460
We'll also have the links to all the resources that we talked about so you can easily and

936
00:51:02,460 --> 00:51:05,900
quickly dive in and benefit from those resources as well.

937
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:08,620
And in the top right corner, we got one more invitation for you.

938
00:51:08,620 --> 00:51:11,900
If you're a visionary and you want to lean in and talk about that vision with us on this

939
00:51:11,900 --> 00:51:16,300
stage, we'd love to see you apply and become a guest on vision pros live.

940
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:18,380
Uh, we'll see you guys on the next episode.

941
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:19,700
Jon, thanks so much for being here today.

942
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:21,100
This is fantastic.

943
00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:22,100
You bet.

944
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:23,100
I hope to see you in the future.

945
00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:24,100
Bye.

946
00:51:24,100 --> 00:51:25,100
Thank you for being here today.

947
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:27,720
I'm really happy that you tuned into vision pros live.

948
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:32,620
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.

949
00:51:32,620 --> 00:51:34,180
This is going to get more and more fun.

950
00:51:34,180 --> 00:51:36,220
We'll have more and more engagement as well.

951
00:51:36,220 --> 00:51:39,920
We'll invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time

952
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:40,920
and attention.

953
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:58,140
I hope you have an excellent time building out your vision.