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Indianapolis. Indianapolis. I have never been before. What am I missing? It's nice this

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time of year. The weather is nice. Excuse me. Good food scene. I feel like me. I'm over

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here coughing too as you know. I made it. I mean, it's contagious. Oh no. No, no. Good

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food scene. Nice art community. Yeah, it's it. Quaint. No, it's a little bigger than

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quaint. But it's nice and it's one of the most attractive things about Indianapolis

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is it's several hours from so many really cool cities. Oh yeah. That is nice. That sounds

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like everything in Texas. Just several hours from everything. No. Okay. I lived in Texas.

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It's not several hours. Right. You want to go to Big Bend? It's nine and a half. Oh man.

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Well we're going to be diving in today. Visionaries, leaders listening in. We're going to be talking

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about how passions change. And Lorraine on the spot came up with such a great title for

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it. I was getting real cerebral with it and like evolution of passion. She's like, why

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not something conversational? That was my passion. And then it wasn't. And I was like,

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there you go. That's why Lorraine Ball as a marketing strategist, I'm getting just blessed

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so fast with decades of experience and wisdom. So yeah, our passions change. Let's just dive

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right in on that subject. So what drew your attention to that and got you thinking down

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this path? Because there's so many people out there that are probably in some type of

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transition, but tell me about where this vision came from. So I had a successful corporate

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career and when I started thinking about going out on my own, I started thinking about, well,

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what would people pay me for? I know what they paid me for in corporate and what did

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I really love? And one of the things that I was really good at, it was never in my job

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description per se, was building high performance teams. I had a lot of history going into dysfunctional

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organizations, figuring out what was wrong, turning them around and transforming both

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the teams and the individuals into high performance. And I did that multiple times. And so as I

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looked at my business, I was like, you know, I'm really good at it. That's really fun.

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I really, I love the magic of finding what lights up somebody and helping them figure

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out how to use that well and how to work with other people and be creative. And so I built

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a business model that would have me in a perfect world running around the country, talking

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to senior managers about how to build their high performance teams, doing workshops on

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it, and then going in and doing those deep dives to help them figure out what were the

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stumbling blocks, where was the communication? And I love that. I was jazzed. I was really

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excited. And I wasn't very good at selling it. And I had some gigs and did really well.

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And so I was like, oh, that was fun. I can do that again. And but while I was sort of

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trying to develop that business, people kept coming up to me going, Hey, Lorraine, I know

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that, you know, I know you're doing this other thing now, but you were in marketing all those

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years and you're really good at it. And I mean, and I was, and I always had fun with

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it and it was a passion, but it wasn't lighting me up the way this idea was. And they're like,

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can you help me? Well, yeah, you know, I'll do that on the side. And the more I did it

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on the side, and the more success I had, not just for me, but for my customers, the more

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I was like, wow, this is really cool. And again, I'm really good at it. And I am I'm

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making a difference. And the people who I'm working with are appreciating and all of a

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sudden and I know it wasn't all of a sudden, but over time, I realized that I loved it,

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that it was what was waking me up every morning. And it wasn't just, okay, I love getting paid

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big, big fan of I'm a capitalist, my mother, my mother raised a capitalist. And so I embrace

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it. But it wasn't just the money, because there were a lot of things I could have done

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for the money. It really was getting a phone call from a client saying, Oh my God, we just

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sold this because of a lead on the website. We just got funding for our business because

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of the plan you helped us put together. We are moving out of our basement, and we're

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going to put a sign on the outside of the building with our company name, and we would

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never have been there without you. And all of a sudden, I was like, okay, this, this

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is what I meant to do. And it made me sad, sort of like breaking up with a boyfriend,

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to let go of the, the vision of me running around team building and teaching other managers

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to do because I continue to see crappy leaders in all levels. And I continue to see the opportunity

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and it hurts me because I know that I could help. But I also know that I have and continue

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to have a much bigger impact on the path that I've chosen. And so what I did was I took

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all of that passion around building high performance teams and turned it inward and took everything

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that I knew about communication and supporting and cultivating and created an organization

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that over the 19 years made a huge impact on anyone who came through that door. And

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much the way I have tremendous pride when I drive by the sign that says e-imagine because

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I wrote their business plan when they were three guys working in a basement. Yeah, I

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have tremendous pride when I see former employees are senior editors for national publications

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or seriously senior managers at large agencies and still kind of talk to them and they all

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say, yeah, you know, I learned it at round pick. And so I let go of my passion, but I

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didn't.

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Right. And, and there's sometimes where that, that let go is permanent. Sometimes it's,

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it's seasonal. Sometimes it comes back. Right. Full circle. And that's okay. Right. That's

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that begs the question. We might come back to, to bad leaders versus great leaders in

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a little bit. But, you know, the, I think a lot of us question and wonder where you

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see these very powerful memes or speakers say that like true passions never really change,

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you know, unlike I get it. I understand like the feeling and, and the optimism and like,

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especially if you're a leader of an, of a multi-level marketing company and you've got

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to convince people to stick around and fight through everything in order to win. I'm like,

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but that's no passions can change. It's not, it's not wrong. And so there's what, one of

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the things that you hit on, you said, you talked about success and success doesn't always

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equal happiness, but there are certainly, there is a certain ingredient that can make

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the cake sweeter. And so I look at the sandlot, right? That's a little bit more of a fantasy.

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There's that kid and he's got his plastic glove and, and, you know, and he embarrassed

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himself and then the leader of the baseball team brings him out, gives him a glove, you

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know, happens at the ball perfectly to him and he catches it and his summer changes instantly.

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All right. Eventually he then becomes confident and capable, but looking at real life examples,

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David Robinson of the San Antonio Spurs, long retired, right? I was thinking through

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as you're talking, I was like, who else represents this in real life? He was in the air force,

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you know, and Stefan Footer sitting in a cockpit of an airplane, you know, and he got into

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basketball in college. He had never played before and he became one of the best top 50

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players of all time by giving the opportunity. And then I think of blindside with Sandra

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Bullock and Michael Orr and right. Michael was homeless. He had never played football.

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They got him into the game and he fell in love with it. He had the opportunity finally

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to do that. So sometimes people do steer us towards a new opportunity and we need to be

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prepared. The one in the one infographic I'm going to end on related this. It's so funny.

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You talked about that small company. There was three guys who wanted to build an app

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and we get so addicted to the things we want to build, right? If I want to draw something,

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I want to finish it. If I want to start lemonade stand, I want to be successful with it, right?

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We want to accomplish things. We want to avoid people telling us we were wrong too. So let's

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look at another example of this. And this infographic shows how a little bitty app called

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Angry Birds got started. There were three guys in 2003. They made 51 different games, 51

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times. They pivoted their passion on these games. And in 2009, six years later, they

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were almost broke, but they wanted to make one more game. So they sketched 10 ideas per

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day and one day they sketched this bird. That is such alignment with what you're talking

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about, about how it's a process. It's an evolution.

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And I do not, you know, in retrospect, when I look back over the 20, 25 years that I did

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this, I am not sorry, really and truly, I am not sad that I embraced a different passion.

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Other than sometimes I look at things and think, oh my God, you could be so much better,

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but okay, whatever. But I am okay. Everything you do in life.

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It's unhealthy to acknowledge though. Like my life would be different if I didn't have

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kids. And it doesn't take away from the fact that I love the fact that I had kids early.

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I get extra years that other people don't. Right? So we can get obsessed with looking

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at what we missed out on or what didn't happen, or we can choose to be centered and grateful

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for the things that we do have. And that's part of having a healthy mindset.

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Absolutely. I mean, every day you wake up and there's a fork in the road. Okay. I'm

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a sci-fi geek and I love these movies about these alternative universes and timelines.

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And if just one little thing changes, how everything ripples. And when I look at my

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life and I look at the choices that I made and the amazing people that I've met along

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the way and the incredible experiences, and I know that if this other thing that I had

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wanted had happened, none of that would exist. Now, that might've been cool, but I'm not

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willing to trade. I'm not willing to trade, even in my mind, away any of those experiences

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for what might've been. And I think, as you said, it's a healthy way to look at life.

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And it's a really positive way to get up every morning and figure out, I'm going to have

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a fork in the road and whichever one I choose, it's going to be okay.

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Right. Exactly. And what makes me sad is the people who live in that they can't be happy

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for what they have. They're constantly longing for something more and out there that's existential

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versus being able to appreciate their current reality. And I hope more people get the chance

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to dive in. And I get it. If life is hard and things are tough, it's very hard to see

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what's good. And I know what it's like to have a hard life. And I know what it's like

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to find value in even the darkest experiences that I've had. Sometimes I'm not good at doing

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that in the moment, but I think that's one of the great realities of great leaders, is

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great leaders learn to see and value and appreciate each moment for what it is and not beg for

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something different. So we're going to cut to a little bit of a break. We're going to

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come back. We'll talk a little bit about bad leaders and great leaders. We'll dive more

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into these experiences of passions. We'd love to hear from you. If you have changed gears

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with your passions and you found value in it, or you've found a storm of problems from

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doing so, or you've buried your passions, need to come back. All those stories that

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you have the opportunity to inspire others with what you've experienced. And that's really

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what the show is all about. So we'll see you guys on the other side right after this break.

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All right. Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Callum. I'm your show host. We'll

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be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic

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visions out there. Hey, what's up Vision Pros? Welcome in to another episode of Vision Pros

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Live. I'm your show host, Jackson Callum, founder and CEO of First Class Business. And

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I'm excited to have Lurien Ball back with us today. She's a marketing strategist. And

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I'll tell you what, visionaries out there, when you lack in the marketing, your vision

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doesn't take off. That's why I love talking to people who do marketing. It's one of the

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things that we do. But I always say that the best pill never wins, unfortunately. Even

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if we have the cure for whatever it is, whatever disease is out there, most of the time it

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fails and it doesn't make it to fruition. Why? Because they didn't learn how to market

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it. And so you don't just need one marketer. I will say there is absolutely no such thing

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as a marketing guy or a marketing gal, no matter what they say, that is a control freak

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trying to help you hire them alone. It is called a department. A marketing guy or marketing

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gal would be harder to find than a unicorn in this world. So I recommend going to look

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for unicorns if you're going to look for one, but look at what perspectives you can find.

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Again, that's why we bring people like Lurien on. So you can have a depth of different perspectives

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to help move your visions forward. Now, before I bring her back on stage, a couple of sponsored

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opportunities here. In fact, one marketing guru I highly recommend getting to know is

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none other than James Bond. This is the real James Bond. He wrote Brain Glue and Jack Canfield,

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who has sold more than a hundred million copies of his own book, said, any entrepreneur would

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be an idiot not to buy Brain Glue. And it should be taught in every marketing class

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in every university. This book has some serious power with it. It helps your ideas become

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sticky. It helps you become unforgettable by helping your audience emotionally connect

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with your message. And if you just listen to the audio sample clip, it's got a hilarious

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story. I'm not going to repeat on the public air on my show, but I highly recommend going

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and listening to that. Then there is Dave Morrow with the Hard to Kill Podcast and hardtokill.org.

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We joined forces with him. He's helping a hundred thousand veterans lose two million pounds

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collectively. We've been working with Dave for about three months now. Honestly, I lose

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track of timelines. It's somewhere between two and four months. But Dave's workout plan

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has actually got me working out and I haven't worked out in eight years. I had a back surgery.

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I've avoided physical therapists and personal trainers very, very well. Somehow Dave has

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meagred me into doing a hundred pushups per day at this point. It did not start there.

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I started with one I could barely do. And he's opened his door so that civilians can

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now join as well. But if you know veterans and you know, if you're learning about the

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veteran community, a lot of them have a very hard time with transition back to being civilians.

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And we have suicide rates going through the roof right now. Dave's focus is to help veterans

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look good, feel good, and go about doing good. And I hope we're all willing to get behind

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a mission like that. Again, join us in the Hard to Kill community. It's free to join.

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We'd love to see you over there. And it has helped me tremendously with my health. The

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water project. We are not affiliated with the water project. This is something that

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I really just hope to continue to help people understand. Because when I found out that

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there's millions of people who don't have access to clean drinking water, I could have

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just said, you know, I can't feel that emotionally. That doesn't apply to me because I've never

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been thirsty in my life. But I didn't. I decided to pay attention and think through what would

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my life be like, or what would it be like to have four kids and not have access to clean

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drinking water? You know, we have to walk miles and who knows what could happen to somebody

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on that type of a walk. I've made myself start to really meditate upon this. And what I love

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about this organization is you actually get to pick the community that you help. And when

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you give $5 or $10 to that community, they will actually send you a notification and

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the pictures and evidence of that community and what they've been able to accomplish.

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This picture you're about to see reminds me of my kids on Christmas Day. And these are

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kids celebrating the simple reality of having clean drinking water. Talk about passions.

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These kids are passionate about water. What a gift it is to be able to give something

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like that to others. If you're not in a financial position to contribute and give back to the

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water project, my hope is that you'll just think of somebody that might be inspired by

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this because you never know if you share it with one person, that one person might fund

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10 of this projects by themselves. We can do more than we give ourselves credit for

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simply by sharing the opportunities in the world. And we all have 8 billion people out

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there to help. So jump in the game with us, do what you can. And if there's another project

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or another cause that you'd love to see us support, please just drop it in the comments.

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Give us a chance to learn what it is and go in and maybe I'll talk about that on the show

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as well. Lorraine Ball, thanks for joining us again on Vision Pros Live.

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Nice to be here. Thank you.

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Absolutely.

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Go ahead.

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Before we go anywhere, a hundred pushups a day. Way to go.

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We're 25 now, started on Monday. So 25 sets, 25 sets. I'm sorry, 25. Five sets of 25.

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Five sets of 25. Nice.

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It's nice. It's weird. I've got like these, I got like this indention growing right here

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and it's like, huh, what is this? I'm a pretty skinny guy. Yes. Thank you for that. And you

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know, those of you listening in too, let's talk about ego just a little bit. Let's talk

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about arrogance, you know, a vice. And let's also talk about the mirrored virtue, confidence.

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Leaders, great leaders are confident. I can be beautiful and recognize that Lorraine is

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just as beautiful and recognize that all of you are just as beautiful. What if our world

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switched and transitioned to where we no longer labeled the virtue of confidence as the vice

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of cockiness and arrogance? How would our, how would our conversations change in life?

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If we could appreciate each other's values, virtues, our growth and all the good things

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that we're doing, that's what we're creating at First Class Business Envision Pros. Lorraine,

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what are your thoughts on that? How do we, how do we inspire that?

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First off, I love, I love the idea of both, I'm getting a little feedback. I love the

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idea of both getting comfortable with confidence. I also appreciate humility, not when it's

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a humble brag, you know, when it's not, when you say something and you're looking for someone

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to tell you, no, no, no, you're better than that. But I think confidence when you are

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leading an organization and you are trying to get people to change their behavior, act

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in a certain way, support a certain cause, I think confidence is absolutely critical

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because they have to believe, number one, that you believe and they have to believe

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that you can do. At the same time, when you succeed, acknowledging that you did not do

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it on your own, no matter how good you are, no matter how, how much you toil day, night,

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whatever, whatever, you ain't living in a bubble. There are people around you who have

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made it easier for you to be successful, whether it's dropping off food sometime or running

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an errand or actually proofreading that brilliant manuscript you wrote. Whatever it is, there

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have been contributions along the way. And so I think those two joint virtues need to

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go together.

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I'll say, I'll say with that example of the people in your life, maybe and maybe not.

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And here's why. There is one that often gets left out, in my opinion, and I know this is

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projecting a little bit on the audience, but I'm an unapologetic Christian, right? And

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that's God, right? God is always there. We also know the story of Job. And for those

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believers out there know that Job was abandoned by literally everybody. It doesn't mean people

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didn't contribute at some point along the way, but there came a point in time where

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it was just God by His side. And I think that's the one that oftentimes we neglect to acknowledge.

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And I want to go back to this topic of humility because our world is so lost when it comes

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to the true definition of humility. 100% loss. Check this out. This is hilarious. I just

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Googled it because it's constantly changing. Definitions of words are always changing.

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We are always learning. The dictionary people are always learning. Here's AI. And check

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out how they define humility. It says humility is, right? And then they don't define it.

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They just use the word that define itself, but they say humility is having a lack of

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pride or arrogance. That's a bull crap definition. You don't define happiness by saying it's

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the opposite of sadness. You actually have to create a true definition. But worse, even

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in the Oxford languages here, it says humility is a modest or a low view of one's own importance.

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Once again, this is absolutely bull crap. This is our language getting twisted and twisted

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to the point where we can't even recognize virtues. If you go back and you look at the

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Aramaic or the Judaism definitions of humility, what humility actually means and what it's

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supposed to be is a full appreciation of oneself and a full appreciation for everything else.

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That definition is the one that I'm 100% aligned with. And if we can get a full appreciation

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where we don't take anything away from anybody because there's no need to, and we are confident

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about who we are, that is a beautiful setup for leaders to then encourage others to put

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their best foot forward.

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And I think you kind of touched on it and then went off in a different direction. Having

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a sense of humility is not necessarily being humble. I think as people talk about being

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humble a lot of time, or maybe it is the perception that that gets tied much more to the low self-esteem.

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I don't really deserve this.

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Which is not the true definition of that word.

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No. And so, yeah. And so when I think of humility, I definitely agree and gravitate towards the

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description of-

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Humble is a good word. Humble is a good word and modern society has ruined it, just like

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the word game and happiness. So there's the original definitions, there's the ability

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to withstand the world. I would not go on CNN and talk about this or Fox because the

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way they want to converse is a different style than what this environment is. But in Vision

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Pros Live, we're in an environment of people who are seeking holistic growth.

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Absolutely.

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And people who seek holistic growth and wellbeing understand that definitions of words, or they're

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at least starting to understand that the definitions of words change based on culture, based on

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context, based on cadence, based on tone. And the whole point here is I want my audience

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to know that there is no reason to put yourself down and self-deprecate. There's zero reason

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to hold back how good you could feel and should feel about your passions and your virtues.

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There's no arrogance whatsoever, no vice in appreciating what you've been given and what

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you're able to accomplish. And so no bars. Be your best self and be grateful that you

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are. That is my hope for those people who come to the show.

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And that is such an attractive characteristic. When you are doing that, when you are confident,

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when you are appreciating the people around you, the opportunities, the inspiration, the

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luck, whatever it is, when you are doing those things and acknowledging that all of that

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is contributing to you moving forward, it brings people in. They want to be a part.

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They want to be a part of that environment where there is appreciation.

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It's powerful. It feels so good.

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I did something so silly. I took over a department one time and it was such, I can't even begin

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to talk about the negative energy I stepped into. And I, on my journey to figure out what

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was going on there, one of the things I realized is nobody ever said thank you. And so I bought

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a stack of these little note cards and I had, I think there were 48 people on the team and

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randomly something would happen during the day and I would just write one sentence and

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I would leave it on their desk at the end of the day because I always kind of worked

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a little bit later. And they would come in in the morning and there would be this little

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tent card sitting on their desk. And just that shifting the culture to appreciation

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was, it just brought such light and such energy. And it was funny because after I did it for

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a while, I noticed that they started saying it to each other. And that's really where

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the culture changes. And that's really, to me, when we're talking about what's a good

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leader versus a bad leader, it's less about what you say and more about what you do and

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can you with your behavior inspire others to shift their behavior?

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For sure. And I want to come back to that topic. We're going to be coming back to the

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good and the bad. First thing I want to ask you and an audience, when it goes to these

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interviews, we interview a couple hundred people every year. Maybe more than I think

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this year we've interviewed almost 500 already. And we sometimes remember what we talked about,

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we sometimes didn't. We had the question, what's the worst leadership experience you've

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ever had? What's the best leadership experience you've ever had? And the powerful lessons.

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Did we talk about those three on our last episode, Lorraine? Or is that something we

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should revisit? Or should we move forward with the good and the bad leadership experiences?

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This is your call today. I think I may have answered them. And so now

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as I'm struggling to remember, I don't know that I want to necessarily answer again going,

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Lorraine, you said this was your worst leadership experience.

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Well, here, let me play devil's advocate on that. And in fact, I call it angel's advocate.

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If I learned the best secret from Richard Branson, right, and I got to listen to him

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talk about it for five minutes only, why in the world would I not want to listen to that

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again and get the 150 minute version of what it is that he is really trying to help me

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share with. So again, I'm not pushing you that way, only saying we can go any direction

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you want, knowing that the ability to dive deep in the well is something that at Vision

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Pros we appreciate tremendously. So I'm totally good with that. When you ask

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it right now, the which one the thing that popped the worst leadership experience, the

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thing that popped into my head may or may not be what I talked about before. Correct.

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But this was a leader who was absolutely not confident. And I remember that he did something

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that I thought was just so awful. He would call a staff meeting for Saturday morning.

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And you know, we were working in retail, guess we were in the buying office. So we pretty

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much were working Monday to Friday, but we had all just come out of the environment where

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we were working in the stores. So we really valued our Saturdays. And it was because he

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really did not have much life outside of this job and wanted to make sure that he had something

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to do on Saturday morning. And it was just it was the it was the most awful thing because,

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you know, we had all given is selfish and we'd all given two to three years of our life

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giving up Saturday mornings. And quite honestly, when you rolled into the holidays, you still

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were in the stores on the weekends. And so we solved the problem. There were five of

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us on the team. And every Friday, someone we would rotate, hey, now, I'm going to be

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working tomorrow. Can we talk about this? And the other four of us got Saturday off.

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And it was so awful because he had so little value for who we were and the jobs we were

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doing and how hard I mean, as you know, when you're a retail buyer, you're traveling.

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We had 11 stores in Dallas and two in Phoenix, Arizona. And so we were on the road between

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the stores all the time, which meant that, you know, Dallas traffic just kept getting

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worse and worse. And so it could mean that we would get home at seven o'clock at night,

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even if we left the store at five thirty or six. And we were showing up on weekends and

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it just so little concern for what his needs were. And I that was one of the things that

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as I went forward, I had a much higher sensitivity to the value of the time that people were

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committing and having those conversations about what's the best use of your time.

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We're going to shift right into this as well because of the they sparked a you sparked

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a passion of mine. So these bad leaders versus good leaders opportunity to talk about that.

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There's there's leaders themselves, by the way. There's also leadership experiences.

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I would make a terrible leader as a Chinese teacher because I don't speak Chinese. I don't

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know anything about the culture either. So that would not be something that I could lead

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in. So many visionaries assume that they have to be the leader for everything that they

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do with with their visions or that they have to be the chief executive officer because

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they can't afford to bring somebody in. There's so many limiting beliefs we put in ourselves

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in relation to leadership. But that is not a role. Those are not roles. I shouldn't limit

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it to one because there are so many aspects leading clients is very different and leading

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prospects, which is very different than leading PR and media personnel that might be interested

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in promoting you. There's so many leadership opportunities that, you know, I want to explore

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with you. Let's get beyond the basics, because, again, I think a lot of the visionaries who

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come and watch the show, they understand leadership at a bigger level and they need some of the

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nuanced guidance, some of the things that don't get talked about. So let's hit hard

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on this one. What's a good leader? What's a bad leader? And how do we explore leadership

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as a more holistic view?

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OK, I want to take the third question and then I'll come back to good and bad.

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When, years ago, I did this experiential training course and I taught it for years. And in the

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experiment, there's you play a game and you tell people that there's an old man who's

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got information and most people ignore him and go off and die in the desert. OK, that's

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the short version. But the analogy is that when you look at your organization, you have

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to find the old man and the old man is the person that has the information or the influence.

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The old man might be the department secretary. The old man might be the person who's been

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there 25 years and has never risen through the ranks. When in many times in my career,

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I have been in a situation where I needed to get something done and the person that

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I went to with my questions, the person who solved the problem, the person who could make

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the connection that I needed to make, did not have the title. But if you ask anybody

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in the environment, when a new policy came out, when a new procedure was introduced,

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everybody in the room would turn and look at that person to see their reaction. Because

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by the contributions they made to the organization, by the status they had gained by longevity,

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by the fact that they were the keeper of the keys and they knew where the bodies were buried,

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they could lead, they could influence. And so as a manager, when I came into a department

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and I came into a job and I was, I think I was 10 to 20 years younger than everybody

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I was supervising. So I had that working against me. I was a girl. I had that working against

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me. And so what I did in the first couple of weeks is I went into meetings and I just

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had conversations and I would throw out ideas and I would just watch which way the heads

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turned. And then when I had something that I really cared about, I went to Mike and I

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talked to Mike. And then the next time I threw out an idea, Mike was there to back you up.

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Yes! Yes! So smart. So, you know, part of being a leader is recognizing you're not always

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the most influential person in the room. Very rarely are you. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you

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are. But it also comes back to bite you when you leverage that card, because when you're

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wrong, then that deteriorates the value of your leadership. And so it's an ego play

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at the end of the day. If you only focus on that, you miss out on the opportunity to empower

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people to carry the load with you. But if you're a great leader, right? Or if you have

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that authority and you empower somebody else to step up and kind of be the microphone for

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what you're doing and they fail, right? You can still ruin that as a leader by going at

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them. But if you uplift them and you show them that, guys, I also could have been prone

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to make the same mistake. So let's applaud so and so for giving their best on this. And

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who's got a new idea to help us with this pivot, right? Now you're empowering everybody

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to realize that it is okay. It is safe. In fact, it is encouraged to make mistakes because

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that's also a part of growth. So I'm going to switch the subject a little bit. Same topic.

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We're talking about the relationship, though, of passions and leadership. And, you know,

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is leadership required for passions or is it not? How do they relate? So I'll let you

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lead on this as well. I think when you're passionate, it when you're really passionate,

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you will attract people to your idea. Okay. At that moment, you need to decide, are you

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the one to carry the ball forward? This trips up a lot of it trips up a lot of founders.

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It trips up a lot of of entrepreneurs, because what you're doing in that moment, you have

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to let go. And when you do when you identify somebody who actually has the skills to take

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your idea forward, the most successful leaders, I think, surround themselves with people who

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are smarter than they are. Cultivate those opportunities. I always took it as a personal

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victory when someone on my team was recruited by another department head was recruited by

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another company. Was I sad to lose them? Yes. But was it a victory that I had helped this

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person who was excited and smart? Find that next opportunity and take with them the things

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they learned with me. And was I grateful for the time they were with me? Absolutely. So

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I think recognizing what your passion or your vision is, and then being able to say, I'm

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not the person to carry this forward. I'm not the only person who should carry this

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forward and figuring out why that is or what that is. Yeah, see, there you are right right

399
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in the middle of my YouTube page. I get sidetracked by pretty pictures. But recognizing that you're

400
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you don't have like if you if you're serious, if this is really your passion and you want

401
00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:01,040
this project to succeed, and you know you're not the guy, find the guy or the girl who

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can. I can tell you right now, visionaries, most of you are not the guy or the gal. You're

403
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not your vision. If your vision is holistic, it's going to be inclusive of others. And

404
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that means that others need to be empowered in the process and learning how to do that.

405
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Maybe you just need to empower that one person who can empower the others. I think Steve

406
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Jobs is a great example of that where, you know, he gets a bad rap, you know, as a leader

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from a lot of people. And yet, he was still able to work with hundreds of people. Part

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of the key for that is he had other nurturing individuals there to help shift and shape

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that culture into something people wanted to belong to. And that's not a bad thing.

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In fact, that's the superpower of his was, even though he was known for not getting out

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of the way, he also knew how to get out of the way. And so we have to learn, you know,

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if we want to really scale something people can participate in, how to do just that. And

413
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:02,400
part of that is, are we able to honor other leaders? One leader who I saw on your website

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that I love as a person and that I don't know a whole lot about, but I was impressed with

415
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her program. I was impressed with her leadership is Deborah Sunderland. So shout out to Deborah,

416
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:20,180
who I saw on that. How do you know Deborah? I met Deborah originally through a women's

417
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:26,140
networking group online. We've never met face to face. She's been a guest on my podcast.

418
00:42:26,140 --> 00:42:30,520
She actually wrote a chapter for, and I think that's where you see her. Through online,

419
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:36,240
but you haven't met in person. No, no, but she's been a guest on the show a few times

420
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:45,280
and we just really connect. We have fun. We, she, and actually you're going to laugh because

421
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:52,680
I just put together an article for an upcoming newsletter and I'm featuring our conversation

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about visionary leadership. And what I always do is I always go back into my library to

423
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find other related conversations. And the conversation that I matched with you is Deborah.

424
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,400
Oh, that's so cool. Well, we'll have to let her know too, that she got included on this

425
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:16,280
episode as well. Yeah. Yeah. She's got a very, I remember it was an assessment on leadership

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that I was like, okay, neat. You know, and it's that, it's that creativity and ingenuity,

427
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,400
you know, a vision that when I see somebody tinkering with stuff, like even if it's at

428
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,720
the beginning stage and not the Tony Robbins level, right. It's like, Oh, they've got a

429
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:37,920
depth within them, right. That we had a lock because they've got all sorts of wisdom, even

430
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:43,320
below the surface. Same thing with like the Angry Birds guys. Imagine what else they're

431
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:48,800
capable of doing and accomplishing as leaders in the world. So, yeah, that's, that's too

432
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:55,560
funny. So passions and leadership and these pivots, right. So again, my hope visionary

433
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,560
is you realize you don't have to be the best leader, but you do have to care enough about

434
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:08,040
people in order to find great leaders. And that's, that's usually the role. If you're

435
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going to be the chief visionary officer, you might be a great stage presence, but I've

436
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:18,520
seen a lot of great leaders who are great teachers who are absolutely awful to their

437
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:25,480
teams or who don't know how to manage somebody who goes against their vision, right. They

438
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:31,040
just want to torch them to death. And it's like, there's, there's a reason why it's so

439
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:37,560
important to have others who can make space and not let your ego get the best of you as

440
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:42,680
a visionary who's trying to force what you have on everybody else. That's not healthy.

441
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So go ahead.

442
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:50,000
One of the things I was going to say in this, I think is ties back to the EOS, entrepreneurial

443
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:58,800
operating system and, and, and, and it identifies the visionary, the person who can tell the

444
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:06,760
story, the person who can inspire, but a lot of the characteristics of a person who is

445
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:14,800
good at that are not the characteristics of the person who gets the job done.

446
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:15,800
The integrator.

447
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:16,800
The integrator. Yes.

448
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:23,720
You know what? I'm going to call it out. I hate that book. I hate it. And why do we hate

449
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:28,720
things? Right. We hate things because we, we usually, because we want to love it. We

450
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:34,520
want something to be adjusted. There is, I hope Gina Wickman hears me on this because

451
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:40,960
he's a phenomenal leader. That book is so juicy and so great. And at the end of that

452
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:49,640
book, they tell a story about an entrepreneur visionary who refuses to acknowledge and appreciate

453
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:55,140
the value of the integrator for more than a year, even though this integrator has done

454
00:45:55,140 --> 00:46:02,120
everything right to build this vision up. And in the book, they justify that leadership.

455
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,520
They literally say, you know, we understand entrepreneurs. That's okay. Bullshit. I'm

456
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:13,320
calling it right now. That is not, you do not set entrepreneurs up for success. If you

457
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:20,480
do not teach them how to become grateful for not many people, not many, many integrators

458
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:27,200
will stick around without an, with an entrepreneur who's not grateful for what they do. It's

459
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,400
so easy to learn how to say thank you.

460
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,080
Okay. I appreciate it.

461
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:40,160
Go back to my conversation about the little notes earlier. You know, the, the idea is

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00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:47,360
you, I, I acknowledge the need for the two personalities. They may or may not have all

463
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:56,460
the buckets, right? Right. But those two personalities, I, in every, in every job and every company

464
00:46:56,460 --> 00:47:03,440
in every role I have ever been in, there has always been someone else that is the yin to

465
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,200
my yang or the yang to my yin, however, because I never remember which is, which is,

466
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,920
Yeah, both of them work, right?

467
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:16,800
But they are, they are my polar opposite. I am big picture. The minute I get, the minute

468
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:28,200
I verbalize an idea and I hear it, it's done. Oh, there are details. Yeah. Okay. Whatever.

469
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,960
Having someone who is coming in and saying, no, we have to dot this I, we have to cross

470
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:39,520
this T and it's not just that they clean up after me because I turn around and go, okay,

471
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:45,560
you have been tweaking that for a month. It's done. And I have to pry it out of their hands

472
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:54,120
and release it into the world. And so we are good for each, we are good for each other.

473
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:55,120
Absolutely.

474
00:47:55,120 --> 00:48:01,680
You know, my husband and I are on opposite ends of that spectrum and we have been married.

475
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:08,160
No relationships can relate to that out there, right? We all understand that to a degree.

476
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,040
Yeah. But we've been married 46 years because we understand where that,

477
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,120
Hey, congratulations. That is huge.

478
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:21,600
But we've done it because we understand where the handoff is. When do I come up with the

479
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,040
big idea? When do I let him work? And when do I come back and say, okay, this is good

480
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,200
now? We're good.

481
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:32,320
I love it. And that book again, I love the book. What I don't love about it is again,

482
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:38,080
their attempt and this is an easy change for 2.0 by the way, rocket field 2.0 easy adjustment

483
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:44,480
is I'm just, I just wish more leaders would stop pacifying and coddling entrepreneurs

484
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:51,440
bad behaviors that is going to hold them back for far longer than if we could just as good.

485
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,600
Everybody respects, you know, Wickman, right? And he was very few people would even dare

486
00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:00,960
to bother to speak out against anything that's being done. And so if the man made the one

487
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:06,640
adjustment and said, you know what, let's, let's honor the integrators. Hey, let's make

488
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:12,280
sure on the front end, we help these entrepreneurs realize that full appreciation of your team

489
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:18,280
and their wellbeing will lead to even better results. One tiny adjustment, but that the

490
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:24,080
book is an absolute masterpiece. So as a, as a great one. And it's built on the backbone

491
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:30,680
of the EMF. I will never give a shout out to also tying it to the spine of the book,

492
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:36,360
which is fantastic resources. So visionary leaders, thanks for joining us today. You

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know, we'd love to hear your thoughts too, in the comments and, and feel free to send

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00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,880
us a loom video too of your thoughts and get passionate with us. We might add it to the

495
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:49,840
segment as a segment of this episode, but sharing your passions, what pivots, pivots

496
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,720
you've made, why you've made them and how we're going to have on the show notes as well,

497
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,240
how you can get in touch with Lorraine Ball. We'll have some resources down there. Some

498
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:01,680
of the things that we talked about, the leaders we talked about that we recommend diving in

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deeper with let's dive deep into the wells of knowledge and wisdom as we grow. And we

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look forward to seeing you on the next episode of vision pros live. Take care everybody.

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Bye bye. Bye now. Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned into

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vision pros live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue

503
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to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement

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as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your

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time and attention. Have an excellent time building out.