the internet too. Oh, there we go. Perfect. So, okay, you were telling me about something
really big there and you mentioned maybe even a country or a name I wasn't familiar with
in a story. You're going to have to educate me on this, Scott. Go ahead.
Hi, Jackson. Good to see you again. Yeah. So super excited to be with you and yeah,
just grateful to be part of such an exciting podcast talking about the, we hope we'll talk
about is the future of food through the future of health through food. And so happy to dive
into that more. Of course. So again, though, I want to jump right back into that, that
that segment we were talking about right before we jumped on. So what, what was it that you
were teaching me? Yeah. So it's interesting. Um, we are Jackson facing a far greater pandemic
than COVID-19 ever was. And, but it's happening in slow motion and it receives almost no attention
given the magnitude and the scope of the problem. A lot of people don't realize that poor diets
are actually the number one cause of mortality morbidity in this world. One in five deaths
globally as a result of diet in some way. And poor diets cost us 85% of our healthcare
costs in this country, upwards of $1.1 trillion by some estimates. And all of, all of that
is being accelerated by globalization, by urbanization, by aging and creating a crisis
of epic proportions. The challenge is that the food and health ecosystems really live
in different universes and they have misaligned incentives. They're driven by legacy thinking
and business models and breaking out of that is incredibly hard to do, but it has to be
done because both of them need each other. Consumers with bad diets just become costly
patients. Right? So we all own this problem. And the good news is that food is medicine.
If you've heard of that term, the rise of food is medicine, bringing out health and
food ecosystems together actually works. So food is medicine interventions have been shown
to reduce healthcare costs by upwards of 16% and generate a positive ROI, even when factoring
in the cost of the food, such as a medically tailored meal program. Other programs like
produce prescriptions, reduce healthcare utilization, and both of them improve nutrition and security,
obesity, BMI. And so my message is we need more forks and fewer scalpels and syringes
in our future. Ah, I agree. And I got to be very fortunate.
I was on the campaign for Dr. Eric Berg back when he had 106,000 subscribers. He's at
12 million subscribers now worldwide. And he loved to always, I mean, his passion was
driven around, we've got to be healthy in order to lose weight, right? Not the vice
versa and taking care of health and eating healthy foods. I look at today's world and
what's strange to me, I'm guilty of this too, by the way, but as long as the can is shaped
like a Coca-Cola, because we've been drinking this, we'll drink it. We don't look at the
ingredients. We're going to look at what's put in there, you know, and top ramen, as
long as it's sold at Walmart, right? So you're right. Like the diets, you know, the things
that we have access to, it doesn't matter first world or third world, you know, or developing
world, whatever the proper terms are, we tend to gravitate towards what everybody else is
doing without too much thought regarding that. So there's so much room for us to improve
our health and our choices. And I'm not sure how exactly to inspire people to do that.
But you know, what is the emotional trigger? How people think differently? What have you
found?
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, that's a complex challenge, multifaceted challenge. I'll answer
it in one way, but then I'd like to bring it back to the art of the possible and what
we're trying to actually do with this vision that we have. So somebody once told me, and
I think it was an astute point, that human beings are hyperbolic discounters. So we tend
to discount and lower our expectations about the choices that we make today and the impact
that they're going to have on our future, right? So that's part of the challenge is
we make decisions every single day that have long term significant consequences, and we're
looking for immediacy of benefit and of value, right? And so the degree to which we can connect
to people's aspirations, their mission, their goal, what it is they're trying to achieve
in this world and anchor to something that matters to them here, we can affect motivation.
And then of course, to actually impact change, we've got to actually change the foods that
are in the system. So we like to say, you know, if you want to change the food system,
we have to change the foods that are in the system. And so there's, we need to make healthy
food more accessible, affordable, and desirable for people. And time poverty and complexity
are major barriers. So this notion of convenience is actually a major barrier and inhibitor
to real innovation. But we're actually, we're looking to solve that both through the work
that we're doing with Nourish Movement, which I'd love to double click on, and also the
work at Clario.
Fantastic. That's, you used a term there that I really, really liked, time poverty.
Yeah.
I haven't heard people talk about that with that phrase. And I think these types of catch
phrases are important for people to think to, because I can feel that, you know, it's
like, man, most of my friends and family, you know, that I, and people I interact with
are just busy and they're flying, they're trying to get through, it doesn't matter again,
where you come from. If you're not paying attention to the value of your time and not
using it wisely, then it's easy to end up doing things that aren't good for us. So you
guys have, you've built quite the career for yourself, Scott. You've made a lot of amazing
visions come to reality. Clario, the Nourish Movement, projects beyond that. So I know
the visionary leaders listening would benefit tremendously. What are three resources that
have inspired you and helped you along your way to focus in on your vision and get things
done?
Well, it's a great question. So one that I would say from a resource perspective in terms
of, you know, books, you asked about books once before. And one of the ones that's always
stood out to me is Growth Mindset by Carol Dweck. So if you're not familiar with her,
she's a social psychologist and researcher from Stanford. The book's been around actually
for a little while, but I think it's just timeless. She talks about having a growth
mindset versus a fixed mindset. So how do we begin to not look at sort of defining our
selves on the basis of outcomes, but defining ourselves on the basis of progress? And given
some of the things that I've experienced in my own life, both personally and professionally,
I kind of feel like progress is the measure of success. And so in that sense, it's how
do we begin to learn to build a learning mindset, failing forward? So Growth Mindset is one
that's definitely there. The Opposable Mind by Roger Martin is also one that I've really
come to love in the design of business, because we have complex challenges in this world that
we have to deal with. And so dealing with seeming tensions, contradictions, and building
more integrative thinking that can allow us to push past the polarization that's there
and actually get to a synthesis of great ideas and thinking that brings people together.
And I think that's actually part of the discipline of a leader is learning how to think, not
just what to think. And then I just recently I've been sort of inspired by the work of
Jonathan Haidt over at NYU around affective polarization. So we live in a highly polarized
charged world, not just politically, of course, that's what he's written a lot about, but
also in things like our food system and the relationship between food and health care.
So that's got to get fixed. And I think affective polarization is a force that's really keeping
us apart. The fact that we tend to learn to disdain so much the other side on whatever
it is issue it is that we that we begin to become tribal in our way of thinking. And
so we'll begin to believe just about anything so long as it paints the other side in a bad
light. And so I think innovation and transformation is going to come from bringing people that
are not alike. So diversity of thinking, diversity of perspectives around the common challenges
and problems that we are all trying to solve. And that's really what we're trying to do
through Nourish Movement.
Dude, that's that's amazing. Those are some serious value bombs. I haven't read either
those books and I'm excited to on both of them. One, I love books that are timeless.
As a man thinketh the Bible, books that books that have stood the test of time are super
valuable. The moments of truth, you know, usually the older the richer, then there's
the opposable mind that reminds me of Mark Twain, you know, and just like thinking outside
the box and trying to understand opposition. And and then you nailed something. I didn't
is it Jonathan Haidt? Is that what you said?
Yeah, H-A-I-D-T from N-1-E. Terrific.
I definitely got to check that out because the the more we understand these subjects,
the more I feel like we can make a difference of protecting ourselves, protecting our families
from falling into these traps. And then of course, leading as leaders in the world of
others who maybe, hey, I don't know, maybe none of you guys listening in have friends
that unfriend each other based on on differences of opinions. Maybe all of your friends get
along and don't argue about politics, but actually have wholesome conversations. But
if that's not happening in your circles, then it's people like Jonathan and it's conversations
like this that check ourselves.
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Before we go to the break. Sorry.
You have any other thought before we go to the break?
Yeah, no. So real quick would be to say and maybe we can pick up on this after the break.
That dynamic is actually the very dynamic that keeps us polarized and apart as it relates
to our food system and the transformation that we need and bringing the food and health
ecosystems together, which is what we're trying to solve with with nourish movements. I look
forward to double clicking on that when we get back.
It's huge. And you're all facing this as visionary leaders. There's there's there's competition
and fighting and dog-eat-dog mentality in every single industry that's out there. And when
you become the lion, the dog can't eat, meaning you're not there to just kill people. You're
there to be like like Simba's dad and Simba and Fosso. You're you're so strong. You don't
have to attack the hyenas or fight back. You just your strength just is in the life cycle
wins because what I know I went super Disney for all of you on that. But point being you,
if you can become that type of leader in your industry, then not only do you become bullet
proof, but you become the type of leader that then actually leads the industry and bridges
the gaps and harmonizes. So Scott, thanks for planting that seed for me and for others.
We'll be right back and we'll dive into Scott's vision. All right. Welcome in to Vision Pros
Live with Jackson Callum. I'm your show host. We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs
and guest leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.
Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome in to another episode of Vision Pros Live. I'm your show
host, Jackson Callum, founder and CEO of First Class Business. And I'm super excited, really,
like to have Scott Bowman on stage. This is going to be like an intellectual conversation
of the ages. And, you know, allow yourself to just embrace this reality, the opportunity
to talk about what's going on with health and food and the collaboration that exists
there and know that as visionaries, not only are you learning something about what's going
on in the world at large, that's important to not talk to on a mainstream. This is also
very much going to apply to you and your industry and the things that you can do to collaborate
with others more effectively. I can't wait to talk to him about that before I guess I
can't wait. Before I do, I'm going to give you another couple of resources, but one that
I'm hoping that I can connect Scott with. And that is James Bond of all people, James
I Bond of a book called Brain Glue. Jack Canfield literally said only an entrepreneur that's
an idiot would not buy this book. Jack Canfield has sold over 100 million copies of Chicken
Soup for the soul. This book helps us understand as individuals how to really make our concept
sticky so that emotionally it stays in people's heart and mind. And we get out of the intellectual,
we get into how to drive a movement. It's an absolutely brilliant concept. And James
has been a lot of fun to work with. He's quirky. He's got years and years of wisdom. And for
those of you who haven't checked out the book, as Jack Canfield said, I would definitely
take a look at what he's up to. Then there's Hard to Kill with Dave Mauro. Dave Mauro is
an award winning podcaster in the military space. He's helped, he's helping a hundred
thousand veterans lose 2 million pounds collectively. And he's expanded the hard to kill community
to also include civilians. I've been working on my health by working with him as well.
And again, I bet him and Scott have some collaboration to do as well on that with their different
initiatives. He's going to be at the Military Influencer Expo in Georgia here at the end
of the month. We happen to be in that area. Go meet Dave. He's a super nice guy. And then
the communities that he's running, one of them is free to join. And some of us, that's
really all we need for motivation to get healthy and to start doing things is just be in an
environment with others who are also looking to get healthy. And he's on a mission to help
all these individuals look good, feel good, and then go do good. I've also found it's
easier to do good when I feel good about myself. So join us over there. And then there's the
water project. The water project is not something I'm associated with at all. I've given to
it. By all means, I love the idea of continuing to give to it. Wish I could fund all these
projects myself. When I found out that the world, many people in the world do not have
access to clean drinking water, something that I've never been thirsty in my life, like
truly thirsty and without. I found out that these millions of people are. And I said,
you know what? I don't want to forget about this. In fact, I want to talk about this more
often because this is something that we could eradicate if we pull together. And granted,
some of you may not have the finances to help. My hope is that by learning about this, you'll
just share it with somebody who might be able to. You don't know if the person that you
share the water project with will donate ten million dollars to this or just ten dollars
to it. No amount is too small in terms of helping people in this situation. There's
a picture you're going to see on the screen. It reminds me of my kids on Christmas Day
and these kids are celebrating water and access to clean, filtered water. We have the ability
to make that type of impact. And what's really cool is when you donate to one of these communities,
the water project actually sends you an email letting you know that it got finished and
you get to see the community and how it's transformed, how they came together to make
it happen. So I'm very grateful for what they're doing in the world. If you know of another
cause that we should be supporting and getting involved in, then by all means drop it in
the comments as well. We got eight billion people to help and the better we come together
to do that, the more effective we can be in making a difference for others. So without
further ado, Scott's going to show us how he's doing the same thing and helping people
bridge their gaps. And I couldn't be happier to have you on the episode, Scott. This is
great. Thanks for being here.
Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Jackson. It was interesting. I did not know you were going to reference
the Hard to Kill book, but it made me think, you know, we mentioned before the break, we
were talking a little bit about the challenge that we face in human health and how it's
the number one cause of mortality, morbidity, 85% of our healthcare costs. However, I'd
also say that I think if I got this right, another statistic I've seen is that eight
out of 10 people do not qualify for military service because they are obese and don't meet
the requirements. And so this is actually a problem that affects that population too.
And so that's really what we're looking to do, Jackson, is to help accelerate the future
of health through nutrition and food and to do that through better collaboration, better
innovation, and through business design. And so we think there's actually possibility to
solve that challenge in a bigger way by bringing together the health and food ecosystems. So
the health and food ecosystems are disconnected. They don't find incentives, legacy thinking
and business models, and they just don't effectively work together. And so what we're trying to
do is build a community of passionate leaders committed to collaborative problem solving
and accelerating partnering and innovation by coming together. And we think that works
best by helping them find their tribe. So that's that connection to that integrative
thinking and crossing borders and boundaries and bringing people together. So find their
tribe, number one, find challenges worth working on, and then bring together the aligned players
that have a vested interest in solving them and through collective action to help shorten
the cycle time to partnering. So we think that innovation is driven by great challenges
and challenges that are rooted in private sector market oriented innovation. And so
that's exactly what we're trying to do is a community of passionate leaders that are
committed to problem solving a do tank instead of a think tank in that sense and to help
accelerate this movement of food as medicine, going from collaboration and innovation to
individual organizations acting in their own ways. And right now, one of the big areas
that we're focused on in the food is medicine movement is what we call food as medicine
for an exemptic world or GLP one world. So happy to talk about that if you'd like.
Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned this word tribe a couple of times. I'm a big fan of
this book, the tribal leadership. It's not, it's not commonly read. I probably had it
in my, on my, in fact, I had on my shelf for probably close to 10 years before I finally
dove into it, it intimidated me. I'm ready for that. And, and those are usually the things
we should dive into, like right away. I'm glad I finally did though, there's, there's
so much that we can learn about how to help others when we dive into concepts like that,
the real simple concept of it is what you said, collaboration, right? We bring great
leaders together and we learn how to speak their languages and influence with them. It's
amazing what is possible by, by leading that way. So, yeah, feel free to tell me about
the, the initiative, either, either nourish movement or, or the one you were just mentioning,
I didn't catch what the name it was. It might kind of come out a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so one of the areas that we're looking to step into is, you know, the, the
role of food is medicine. Let me back up and explain what food is medicine. That medicine,
right? So medicine is all about the movement of people that are looking to impact human
health outcomes through better and affordable nutrition and the role that nutrition can
play in their healthcare, right? So today, you know, you get your healthcare, healthcare
in the United States is really more sick care, right? So it's not really healthcare. It's
not really focused on wellness, on wellbeing, on prevention. It's really focused on sick
care and there are food system, right? Has been not necessarily designed for health either.
We like to say that our food system was designed for cheap calories, mass produced at scale
and delivered over distance. So how do we make better, more accessible, affordable food
and how do we integrate that food inside of healthcare programs to really help improve
health outcomes? And that's, that's really what the food is medicine movement represents.
And so if you're listening or reading about it.
What type of platform? Let me ask this too. What type of platform? So let's say that we
do contact Dr. Eric Berg, right? Or Dave Morrow, who's talking about nutrition health. We're
constantly coming across these health advocates. Most of them though, are not, they don't have
12 million subscribers like Dr. Eric Berg does. You know, they've got a couple hundred
and they want to make a bigger difference, but they don't necessarily know the platforms
and stages they should be talking on and where they should be getting involved. What are
some of those communities or expos or platforms? Is the Nourish Movement one of them they should
be coming to? And talk to me about how they can get involved because we need more leaders
coming together, like you said. So where do they come together at?
Yeah, that's right. Well, so there are different kinds. There are not very many that are focused
in the food is medicine space per se, but I'd say one of the ones that I'd mentioned,
a membership organization that I'd spotlight would be the American College of Lifestyle
Medicine. Food is medicine fits into the bigger picture of lifestyle medicine, which is all
about health, well-being in every sense of that. And the role of nutrition and food is
integral to the idea of lifestyle medicine. And so the American College of Lifestyle Medicine
is a great example of somebody that's doing a terrific, terrific job. But, sorry.
Thank you. Yeah. So this is very helpful. That helps me dig into the wells that exist
in the world rather than just having a cup of water. So continue.
And then selfishly, I might say, there is a role that we're trying to play. So what
we do is we, like I said, we try to find challenges that are at that intersection where the health
and food ecosystems have an aligned strategic interest and help accelerate new innovation
through collaboration, through partnering and through collective ideation and problem
solving together. See, and I want to hit that because I know
it's so common in today's world to have to say selfishly, right? To have to make that,
but no, that is you're confident in what you have. I'm confident in what you have, but
we need to know directly what that looks like in order to know how to take action. So how
do we get involved with the nourishment movement? Yeah. Yeah. So I'll give you an example of
one area that we're focused on right now. And if there's any of your listeners that
are interested, certainly they could reach out to me to hear more about this. But I'll
give you one very specific area where I think there's an opportunity to make a massive impact
in a relatively short period of time. And that's the whole world of GLP-1s, if you've
heard of that, or Ozempic. Think of it as Ozempic, Wigobi. You don't have to just turn
on the TV for a few minutes to sort of see the impact there. So we think that they have
come about as a result of a perfect storm, but they're an imperfect solution. And there's
an opportunity to really create change through nutrition and food. So let me say why a perfect
storm. They're a perfect storm because pharma companies have, over the past four years,
grown their direct to consumer ad spend by four times. There's been a hundredfold increase
in the spend from the US government on those drugs. And they are about to be, by 2030,
a hundred billion dollar market fueled by both funding as well as by the underlying
issues that they're solving, rising diabetes as well as obesity. And two drugs in particular,
Wigobi and Ozempic, are such a big deal that Novo Nordisk literally has moved and shifted
the GDP of Denmark just through the aggressive growth of these two drugs. But why are they
an imperfect solution, Jackson? They're imperfect because, well, first of all, they cost $10,000
per person per year. They are-
I'm going to take you back a little bit, Scott. So GLP-1 drugs, I have never in my life heard
that. I'm going to point out how ignorant I am right now on stage without a problem.
So I don't watch TV either. So that's probably part of the reason why you said to turn it
on. I'm not going to turn it on. So what the heck is a GLP-1 drug for those of us who are
completely ignorant still? And yeah, walk me through those basics and then hit what
you're talking about.
So, people will probably know the brand names of Ozempic or Wigobi. So Ozempic and Wigobi,
which are produced by a company called Novo Nordisk, they are drugs that are meant to
mimic the hormone, the GLP-1 hormone in the body to reduce satiety and to help address
insulin response. They've been used for a few decades in the application of diabetes
management. So diabetes care, when someone gets type 2 diabetes, oftentimes they'll go
on a GLP-1 drug to help them manage their diabetes. But increasingly, they've been shown
to have powerful effects on overall weight loss, right? So 10 to 15% weight loss nearly
immediately. And so that has just fueled a firestorm of activity, right? So really, if
you do just a quick Google search of GLP-1 or Ozempic or Wigobi, your users will see
just a flurry of ads and of material. And like I said, every time you turn on the TV,
you'll see an ad for them.
I get you. And I'm grateful for you. Thank you for breaking that down for me. I have
been so blessed, one, to not have diabetes or anything like that. And I drink water and
I eat the right types of foods, too. So I don't have the same type of health risk. I
don't take medicines. And so it is foreign for somebody like myself. But I'm sure a lot
of you are welcome to laugh at me in the comments and be like, what the heck? Does this guy
live under a rock? But if this is news to you as well, it means that there's lots of
other people in your circles that may benefit from understanding this. And I'm sure all
the health buffs out there, you guys are all ready to jump in and talk about this as well.
So what can they do? Again, you said they can reach out to you. Do they do that through
LinkedIn or do you have a preferred means for them to reach out?
Yeah, reach out through LinkedIn because we are so happy to respond to anyone who's interested
in knowing more or getting engaged in this movement. So what we're doing is really trying
to bring together health and food innovators to solve the challenges that can help us address
the underlying issues that these drugs are trying to address, but to do that with the
addition of nutrition and food that's connected to their health, either for those that are
looking to not go on the drugs in the first place or if they're on the drugs to reduce
the side effects when they're on them or to have a pathway toward more sustainable diets
over the longer term that allow them to get off of them.
And there's good reasons why that's needed because number one, they're costly, $10,000
to $12,000 a year. Number two, 10% to 15% of people that are on them are non-responders
anyway. Number three, when people go on them, they experience all kinds of side effects
from muscle loss, muscle wasting, nutritional deficits, dehydration, gastrointestinal issues,
some experience, IBS type symptoms. And then when they go off of them, there's two thirds
of the weight is regained within the first year. So there's really no ROI ultimately
from using these drugs. They're powerful drugs. They give an incredible near-term result,
but they're really unsustainable from a consumer perspective over the long term and also from
a healthcare perspective over the longer term. Given the costs that we spend on them today,
if we were to put everybody who would qualify on them, which is people that are classically
considered obese, if we put everyone on them today that would qualify for them, the amount
of spend would be equal to the entire spend that we had on all of prescription drugs in
2022. And that number is going to grow to nearly $1 trillion by 2031. So really these
drugs, while they're powerful and have incredible use cases, they are, I think, igniting a desire
to say, maybe there's a better way forward. Maybe there's an opportunity to intervene
through nutrition, through food, through lifestyle, in addition to really help ultimately get what
we're trying to achieve anyway, which is better and more sustainable outcomes over time.
That's fantastic. So I've got a number of people in mind that I want us in your way.
I'm that guy who doesn't really understand everything, but when I see something, I'm
like, man, this needs attention. And I know some people who could probably help with this.
I like to try to see if I can connect the two superstars who can figure it out. Adam
Tank, for instance, he's a water expert, global water expert. He happened to be my best friend
in kindergarten. And he's done some amazing work worldwide with water safety and water
purification, all things water. Another one is Dr. Seth Yates, a naturopath
out of Canada, works with me on a project called AbleHealth.us. They're the type of
people who speak your language. Are they the type of people that you are wanting to connect
with? And I mean, what would a collaboration with Adam look like?
Yeah. So no, I'd love to connect with them and with Seth. And so I'll give an example.
So we've got an innovation session that we're leading in just about a month in Boston. And
the whole goal of that innovation session is to bring players that have aligned in aligned
business and strategic interest in solving this challenge around nutrition and food as
medicine approaches for the GLP-1 use cases. Right. So, and our whole goal is to help accelerate
creative partnering. And we're going to do that by bringing together food companies,
ingredient companies, health care organizations like Kaiser, Mayo Clinic, others. Food is
medicine solution providers, technology firms that have the ability to really affect change.
And so we see there's a real near-term opportunity to bring folks like that in to help accelerate
creative partnering in ways that we help them achieve their mission and vision, but we also
figure out where our missions intersect to help solve bigger challenges.
Well, that's fantastic. Thank you. I will. I've got about a hundred connections. I'm
serious. That's about the list that I will be happy to send and for that information
to because these are the types of problems that we need to take action on in the world.
These are the types of realization. Those people matter a lot to me because they're
tackling problems I don't understand. Right. Without Adam, I'm not making any impact on
water in the world other than drinking it, you know, and getting rid of it. I need to
do something. And so Adam's like my water superhero, Captain Planet. So thank you for
diving into that. I'm going to switch gears. Let's go more towards that visionary leader
side of things. So for visionary leaders who are out there, we all benefit from understanding,
from learning from the history of others. What is the worst leadership experience, Scott,
that you've ever had? Yeah, it's a great question. I think if I were to articulate it, I would
say I cut my teeth in the early days right after my MBA in Silicon Valley. And having
worked in Silicon Valley for many years, I think there's a lot of things that I had to
unlearn. Right. And so if you've, if you or your listeners have ever watched the show
Silicon Valley, I would have to say I don't necessarily recommend the show, but I will
say it's not far off from the reality that at least I lived in the late 90s, early 2000s
in Silicon Valley. And so many of the experiences that I had out there were really kind of the
antithesis of what I think it takes to be a great leader. And there were a lot of things
that I had to unlearn. I learned out there, felt like people are looked at as expendable
tools. Hubris is celebrated, toxicity is tolerated, and shareholder value is the ultimate measure
of success. And I think that real leadership requires humility. It requires teachability,
having a learning mindset. It requires respect and dignity and empathy for others, and ultimately
requires having a heart of service, a heart of service for other people and for the world.
And not just shareholder value, but stakeholder value. So I think there's something to this
idea of stakeholder capitalism, stakeholder value creation. And so for me, I think sort
of the Silicon Valley was a great place to learn, to grow, to experience some powerful
things, but it also was a place that I think had some toxic side effects.
You know, Peter Drucker in The Effective Executive says, people with tremendous strengths always
come with tremendous weaknesses. Right? So that's, I appreciate exactly what you're
saying. In fact, shout out to Eric Grafstrom of Exit Guide, who lives in Austin now. He
came on the show and he talked about living in Menlo Park and how, you know, when you
live in that bubble, you know, there's a certain amount of trauma I see in y'all's eyes when
you talk about it. Right? Where, and you could say the same thing of anybody who grew up
in the Catholic faith, anybody who grew up in the LDS faith, anybody who grew up in India
and elsewhere, like once you've experienced more to life, you could begin to recognize
like, whoa, I built some great strengths here, but I built some, I developed some bad weaknesses
too. I love that you talk about humility. I think it's one of the greatest strengths
that is super overlooked. Same thing with people who are delicate. You know, it's amazing
how many flowers survive the hurricanes. You know, and we sometimes think that those
are negative attributes, but in reality, they're, they're fantastic virtues. So all of us can
learn from that by saying, all right, what in my community have I picked up that is good?
That's right. And what have I picked up that is bad? And how do I get myself involved in
diverse communities so I can balance myself out a bit better? So that's, that's a neat
one. What about on the opposite side? What's the best leadership experience you've ever
had? You know, my dad was someone that I looked up to and admired. My dad passed in 2020,
but to me, he was the polar opposite and the antithesis of everything that I had just described
about Silicon Valley. And I would say, especially in the latter years of his life, when he founded
an NGO, I worked with him to help him get it started, get it off the ground, but an
NGO that built a hospital and a network of clinics in South Sudan. So actually would
be interesting to connect to your water project, because clearly, clean water over there is
a huge problem. We have definitely have lots of needs for that, because that organization
still operates. So he had a credo that for him came from an old gospel hymn. He was a
man of faith. And his credo was, others, Lord, yes, others, let this my motto be. Others,
Lord, yes, others that I might live like thee. And so when I look at his life, what he did,
he was someone who set an audacious goal. He rallied people to the mission and ultimately
continuing to do that. And for him, it was all about health and health and healing for
people in South Sudan. And he maintained a relentless commitment in service of others.
And so it was a kind of, in a sense, that stark contrast between sort of what I learned
in Silicon Valley and the experience that I had working with him and empowering him
and seeing that he was a man of great strength, but his strength came from a different place.
So it actually it's kind of it relates to a sort of a core belief that I have, which
is the heart of leadership is really service to others. And that's really what I try to
embed in the work that I do with Clareo and with the Nourish Movement. Another thing it
could sort of be worth just mentioning is I think people don't talk enough about mission.
What's the mission? What's the purpose that drives you and guides you and animates you
every single day? And I think the mission fundamentally of innovation of innovative leaders
is to improve the health and prosperity of the world. The mission of innovation is to
improve the health and the prosperity of the world. And so the degree to which we can embody
that and the degree to which we can approach leadership from a heart of service, from a
heart of respect, from a heart of giving, I think the better off the world will be and
the better off we will be as a result. You know, I'm going to have to blame you for
my ink running out on my pen soon because you give so much value, Scott, in subtle ways
that I don't normally write this many notes during these sessions and find this many quips,
but it speaks to the testament of just how hard you've worked on this. Vulnerably opening
up again, we love to pretend we know everything as entrepreneurs, especially as hosts of a
team. But no, like it's been hard for me to define mission. Right. What's the difference
between vision and mission? And you just articulated it so well. And it's something that I usually
correlate with what I call the rally cry. And they do go hand in hand to an extent.
But I hadn't thought of it in the way that you just mentioned it. And that's going to
be very helpful for those that we teach and strive to help because we can get one
people lose their visions. But we on our side kind of get caught up in the vision because
it's just the natural byproduct of having vision for us. But we have to get to where
the mission is something that is that you focus on on a daily basis. You know, what
is it that you're doing? How is it that you're participating? So thank you for the
wisdom there.
Yeah, Jackson, the mission, if I may interrupt, just to say that the mission is the thing
that ought to really guide us, it ought to animate us, it ought to sort of focus us because
it is the core purpose. Right. It's in a sense that it's that why that Simon Sinek talks
about so much. Right. People don't care what you do until they care why you do it. Right.
So it's that it's the why that animates the very purpose that guides what we do. And then
sort of the we like to think of the mission, the vision is really what is that aspirational
future to which we all aspire. And so that becomes the compass. The mission is what guides
us. And the vision is the compass that that leads us to it wasn't until we applied the
mission as a as a rally cry where we started to feel the difference and the change in tides
for first class business and for our program called opportunities. So opportunities, we've
always been clear on that rally cry and a rally cry or vision or mission rather. So
a rally cry or mission for that is to bridge the economic gap between North America, South
America and rest of world. All right. That's what we're doing there. And the Latinos and
the developing countries that hear that are people that empathize with that. They love
it and they gravitate. First class business is a different rally cry. And that's to create
a full appreciation for personal well and family well-being in the workplace. So those
that that aspect of caring about the workplace and the workplace environment. And I started
to shift and talk to people about that. I noticed more more of the entrepreneurs in
America began to really feel like, oh, I want I want my well-being to be cared about. I
want my team's well-being to be cared about. So there is a dynamic poll that happens when
we take the time to think through and define those. You also remind me of another leader
that I don't know if he talks about. I think he talked about Silicon Valley in the book.
This poster behind me is from the pyramid chart of five dysfunctions of a team. Oh,
that's a good one, Joni. And again, you can be a successful leader by force. You can.
And if you want to feel bad life, you want to feel darkness and secluded, then by all
means, use force as the means of leadership. But I thought that book was masterfully written
between that and the five temptations of the CEO that he wrote. Both excellent examples
of highlighting that that turmoil that exists within Silicon Valley and corporate environments
for people are more concerned prestige than they are with the actual character of true
leadership, which is strength. You don't need to show force when you actually have strength
on your side. Strength does typically win out. So again, great, great principles to
dive into the last. Go ahead. You want one more?
Yeah, I was just going to say, I think it's just a it's a it's a pivot in the mindset
of a leader, right? Which is, yeah, right. So I think I have a belief that everything
that I have is something that I've been given. And so if that's the case, then ultimately,
I have a stewardship responsibility to use those gifts, those talents, those abilities
to, as I said before, sort of to improve the health and prosperity of the world. And so
how do I do that in the context of my business? How do I look at other people and the mission
that I'm trying to drive, whether it's at Nourish Movement, where we're looking to connect
innovators and their innovations to empower human health by through cross sector collaboration
with health and food, or whether it's working with large companies and small, fast moving
companies in the food ecosystem up and down the food value chain to help transform themselves
in new ways and grow in ways to it to realize their their place in the world and achieving
human health through better and affordable, nutritious food.
My favorite part about interviewing you is you dig deeper and deeper into the well. Right.
It's just constant. And so it makes it really fun for this question because it continues
to build the pressure and the momentum. So if this were the last chance that you had
the shared wisdom of the world, what powerful lesson can other visionaries learn from your
experience?
Yeah, no, it's thank you for that. This is I think I would end with I think I would I
think I would I think I would go back to that point that the mission of innovation is to
improve the health and prosperity of the world. And I think the more you can sort of embed
that mindset and that thinking, the better off you will be. Now, the difficulty as a
leader is how do you inject outside in thinking? How do you break conventional thinking and
assumptions? How do you sort of begin to have that sort of that learning mindset? And that's
where that's where the struggle really comes, because most leaders, most organizations get
stuck in embedded ways of doing things. We like to say that the paradox of innovation
and the paradox of a leader is that becoming the best at what you do, which is, of course,
what is demanded of any of us is actually the very thing that keeps you from being able
to see and anticipate what's next. Right. Why is that? It's because you get so focused
on your customers, on your problems that you're trying to solve on your on your your markets,
your products, that you begin to lose that sort of peripheral vision. And so how do you
begin to sort of step out of that and think differently about your opportunity by casting
a vision of that future state that you're looking to get to, and then organizing and
resourcing and delivering on, you know, on that sort of next generation, more innovative
approaches and having that learning mindset that we talked about?
Absolutely. I'm going to pull it up. I think I got it right here. The mission of innovation
itself, innovation is to improve the health and well-being of the world. I got that right.
Right. Did I type that correctly? You did. I want to make sure I did before I started
to comment on it, because I want to buy into this concept pretty fully. I can see this.
Like if we're if we're in other words, we're creating something and it's not providing
an improvement for others, what are we doing? You know, why are we spending our time on
it versus on the flip side, if we change our focus to creating things, coming up with new
ideas, developing things for the world, whether it is, I guess you'd say truly innovative,
whether it's something that's original, right, or it's something or it's Firestone and Michelin,
right. They've kind of reinvented the wheel, so to speak. It's the same wheel that existed
in stone format and then in wooden format, but they've improved it to a way where we've
got so much better transportation capacity at this point. We all have the opportunity
to innovate. And the underlying question is, is what we're focusing on truly helping others
or not? And I believe that's also one of the keys to happiness and peace is focus your
life on that. What do you think? You're right. And in that sense, innovation is not about
creating things necessarily. It's about creating value. It's about creating value and it's
about creating value for stakeholders, right. So you mentioned products and this product
that I hold in my hand, my iPhone 15. Apple invented very, very little of what's actually
in here. I mean, increasingly more and more, but initially it was really about solving
a problem, which is a customer experience problem. And so there are lots and lots of
examples of innovation, whether it's customer experience innovation, whether it's product
innovation, whether it's innovation, innovating through partnerships where we can create value
for our stakeholders in new ways. And our job as leaders is to get out of sort of one
way of looking at things and by just looking, boxing ourselves in by our existing products
and existing customers and existing markets and looking at new ways to construct and create
value. And I just, I would assert that the goal of that ultimately needs to be in service
of improving the health and prosperity of the world in some way.
I love that you drew the correlation to away from the inventor mindset or just focused
on the physical objects. I got to participate in a conference and at the conference there
was a youth program. It was called Habitu Warrior Conference. And it was fun to see
the speakers come in and influence the youth and see them all try to connect with these
youth in different ways. And some of them were pitiful and some of them were quite good
at it. But the one who I would say made the most impactful impact was Sharon Lector, the
ghostwriter for Rich Dad Poor Dad. And she came in and she focused on teaching these
kids how to shake their, how to shake her hand, how to look her in the eye, how to take
a firm grasp, how to have confidence and boldness in it. She knew so well how to meet those
children where they were at and on what they needed and to build their self-confidence
up. It was the coolest, it was the coolest thing because it was the most simple of innovations.
And I will fully use that word. That is a very innovative reality. And sometimes we
as human beings, we downplay the value of the simple things that we can do to cause
a great impact in the world. And we shouldn't, we should embrace those types of opportunities.
So Scott, this was incredibly inspiring. I appreciate you coming on the show today. Vision
pros we're going to have below this episode, we'll have the action steps of how you can
get engaged with Scott, how you can check out the Nourish Movement, Clareo, what's going
on in the world of food and collaboration. We'll also have the resources listed below
that so you can go and check out what things we talked about if you're just joining in
the last minute, we'll have that list on that landing page. And lastly, we'll have a button
in the top right corner and the button says, be our guest. If you've got a guest of how
to help in this world, don't hesitate to come and share it. It can be as small as something
going on in your family or your neighborhood, as long as it's helping others, we'd love
to have you here. And it could also be something worldwide in a movement like Scott's created.
This was phenomenal. Scott, I'll let you close us out today.
Jackson, thank you so much. Appreciate your time and appreciate your listeners time. Let's
go make that should be the change that we want to see in the world.
Let's do it. Appreciate you for let me put you on the spot and just dig super deep into
your well. We hope to have you back in the future.
Hope so.
Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll
invite people to participate in the show. And thank you for giving us your time and
attention. Have an excellent time building out your vision.